R10 lfms are dead - where is the update to reaper xp??

[devashta]

Yap even R10s dailies are dead. Of course lot of peeps are taking a break after your U50 and upcoming ED kerfuffle, but even people who run the R10 dailies in PUGs are not running them anymore. Builds have been decimated, R8 - R10s take 3x the time to complete, but there is no just reward with the obsolete reaper XP system. You wanted to make R10 a challenge and went ahead with the changes, but forgot to provide proper reward system for the same.
Lynnabel is saying in discord she is going to delete the reaper trees as part of reaper revamp - so is this the formal position inside your team? What will happen to the points already earned? We need clarity on all of these and need them early.

[Tyrande]

[...]
Lynnabel is saying in discord she is going to delete the reaper trees as part of reaper revamp - so is this the formal position inside your team? What will happen to the points already earned? We need clarity on all of these and need them early.

Where did you hear that? Please post an exact quote.

[Lynnabel]

Yap even R10s dailies are dead. Of course lot of peeps are taking a break after your U50 and upcoming ED kerfuffle, but even people who run the R10 dailies in PUGs are not running them anymore. Builds have been decimated, R8 - R10s take 3x the time to complete, but there is no just reward with the obsolete reaper XP system. You wanted to make R10 a challenge and went ahead with the changes, but forgot to provide proper reward system for the same.
Lynnabel is saying in discord she is going to delete the reaper trees as part of reaper revamp - so is this the formal position inside your team? What will happen to the points already earned? We need clarity on all of these and need them early.

1: I am a dude

2: We do want to revamp reaper in a vague sense sometime in the future eventually, but we don't have any concrete details as of yet. So no, this isn't a formal position in the slightest, given that it was a part of a larger discussion about a potential series of hypothetical changes that, again, are not actually happening. Please don't take idle late-night chatter about potential wishlist development items as set-in-stone prophecies about what absolutely will happen regardless of consequences. I don't want to feel like I can't speak freely in a casual sense while chatting informally with our fans, and this sort of stuff makes me really nervous that I won't be able to justify chatting casually anymore if it causes this much anxieties about our future development plans :(

[rabidfox]

Where did you hear that? Please post an exact quote.

That comment is taken out of context. I was in discord and part of the chatter going on then. There was commentary as varied on how it could cool to have account wide reaper points to how revamped trees could be nice. Nothing I read/or that was said was official SSG plans, it was a dev talking about the various ideas that bounce around in their head and hearing what players on discord thought of them. I personally love it when the devs just kinda chat about stuff and their own personal thoughts, but others seem to freak out when they see that.

[Vish]

stay calm and use hyperbole

[Vish]

time to start dual boxing

[Merrillman]

1: I am a dude

2: We do want to revamp reaper in a vague sense sometime in the future eventually, but we don't have any concrete details as of yet. So no, this isn't a formal position in the slightest, given that it was a part of a larger discussion about a potential series of hypothetical changes that, again, are not actually happening. Please don't take idle late-night chatter about potential wishlist development items as set-in-stone prophecies about what absolutely will happen regardless of consequences. I don't want to feel like I can't speak freely in a casual sense while chatting informally with our fans, and this sort of stuff makes me really nervous that I won't be able to justify chatting casually anymore if it causes this much anxieties about our future development plans :(

Please do account wide reaper trees. My goodness that would be so much better to be able to take other characters into reaper content.

PS: CASTER FREAKIN TREES PLEASE! It’s driving me nuts with partial tree releases!

[Mininin67]

1: I am a dude

2: We do want to revamp reaper in a vague sense sometime in the future eventually, but we don't have any concrete details as of yet. So no, this isn't a formal position in the slightest, given that it was a part of a larger discussion about a potential series of hypothetical changes that, again, are not actually happening. Please don't take idle late-night chatter about potential wishlist development items as set-in-stone prophecies about what absolutely will happen regardless of consequences. I don't want to feel like I can't speak freely in a casual sense while chatting informally with our fans, and this sort of stuff makes me really nervous that I won't be able to justify chatting casually anymore if it causes this much anxieties about our future development plans :(

You mean like how you casually expressed your hate for the RL caster belts and we all know where that went.:cool:

[Carpone]

Builds have been decimated, R8 - R10s take 3x the time to complete
*Dwight Schultz voice* False.

The amount of build ideas and gear tetris going on because of the U50 stat normalization is staggering. This is the healthiest the game has ever been with gearing options.

I've completed 250+ R10s since U50 dropped. Here are a sample of completion times, all of which were done with 1 healer, 1 tank, 3 melee, 1 ranged. They would have gone faster with an instakiller in the group.

Make Believe:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/783369236012597270/881967835486748723/R10_make_believe.PNG

Wrath of the Earth:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/783369236012597270/881967841669177424/R10_Wrath_of_the_Earth.PNG

Mad Tea Party:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/783369236012597270/881967844332548126/R10_Mad_Tea_Party.PNG

Fresh Baked Dreams:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/783369236012597270/881967849265045524/R10_Fresh-Baked_Dreams.PNG

[apocaladle]

1: I am a dude

One way to short cut the corrections would be to change your forum name to "Mr. Lynnabel" and slap a movember stash on your avatar.

[rabidfox]

*Dwight Schultz voice* False.

The amount of build ideas and gear tetris going on because of the U50 stat normalization is staggering. This is the healthiest the game has ever been with gearing options.

I've completed 250+ R10s since U50 dropped. Here are a sample of completion times, all of which were done with 1 healer, 1 tank, 3 melee, 1 ranged. They would have gone faster with an instakiller in the group.
Your stuff is pretty much along the lines for what I've seen in mostly random r10 pugs. Clears generally still go fast. 2 or 3 strong players can still pull thru the rest of a group that isn't quite high skull ready. Players that were pushing the glassy side before are still glassy and get killed easy. And if things go pear-shaped because of lag or RNG on reaper/champ combos, a good group will figure out a plan of attack while timers tick off, pop cakes or jibs, and finish the quest; so basically the same as pre-u50.

[droid327]

You don't understand...

Making R10 harder without increasing the reward WAS the fix

Reaper is a "challenge mode", not an "optimum xp" mode. If you're bored with the difficulty, up the skulls. If you're unsatisfied with the efficiency, lower the skulls. It's not there to provide you with a runaway accelerating progress-power-reward feedback loop

[Epicsoul]

You don't understand...

Making R10 harder without increasing the reward WAS the fix

Reaper is a "challenge mode", not an "optimum xp" mode. If you're bored with the difficulty, up the skulls. If you're unsatisfied with the efficiency, lower the skulls. It's not there to provide you with a runaway accelerating progress-power-reward feedback loop

I'll repeat again, progression and harder content are not mutually exclusive. However, who cares about more power? The people want cosmetics.

[Carpone]

You don't understand...

Making R10 harder without increasing the reward WAS the fix
When was the last time you did R10s? Reaper is *easier* after U50.

[Monkey_Archer]

When was the last time you did R10s? Reaper is *easier* after U50.
Reaper is only easier for players who already found it to be easy. Those players were typically asking for it to be made harder.
Reaper is much harder now for players who already found it to be hard. Those players were also asking for it to be made easier.
U50 is corrupt a wish.

Its very simple to understand. The main nerf to monsters was to their survivability and the main buff was to damage.
Vets with all the past lives and reapers points don't need to worry about the higher damage as they can still survive and know how to avoid it better, being able to bypass damage entirely means you can now kill things faster.
Newer players or characters without the easy-mode buffer of rxp hp are now getting one-shot so they cant take advantage of the lower monster hp, thus r10 is now out of reach.
The difference between being able to survive one hit vs getting oneshot makes reaper infinitely more difficult.

[Carpone]

Vets with all the past lives and reapers points don't need to worry about the higher damage as they can still survive and know how to avoid it better, being able to bypass damage entirely means you can now kill things faster.

Newer players or characters without the easy-mode buffer of rxp hp are now getting one-shot so they cant take advantage of the lower monster hp, thus r10 is now out of reach.
Scroll up to my screenshots. Nichevo-1 is my third favorite toon. Prior to U50, he had 2 reaper points as a first life bank mule. He now has 40 reaper points, with a whopping third heroic life behind him and a handful of epic past lives (not epic completionist). In that screenshot, the healer has 153 reaper points. The tank has 100ish. The 3 melee have a couple dozen reaper points each, but doesn't have a single tree capped.


The difference between being able to survive one hit vs getting oneshot makes reaper infinitely more difficult.
Smart play matters. Don't have the HP to tank a Doom or champion? Then don't get aggro so you don't get one-shot. Let one of the "tankier" types get it.

[slarden]

When was the last time you did R10s? Reaper is *easier* after U50.

I don't think R10s are easier, but I also don't think they are significantly harder for people with a healthy amount of rxp. The biggest change is higher spike damage relative to our hp which is unlikely to impact a full group of 120+ reaper points characters also benefiting from PRR/MRR/Energy Absorb/etc. from past lifes and reaper trees. That was easy mode before and easy mode now and would feel easier if your ranged character is using Horizon Walker because that was a net power gain.

I think the higher spike damage is an issue for people with lower reaper points and I would expect it to feel harder based on the #s I've seen.

The devs are on record stating they thought reaper should be harder and I think it is - probably working as intended. Groups with high reaper hp won't feel the extra spike damage especially when running in a full group.

As always it sucks being late to the party on grinds.

[Monkey_Archer]

Scroll up to my screenshots. Nichevo-1 is my third favorite toon. Prior to U50, he had 2 reaper points as a first life bank mule. He now has 40 reaper points, with a whopping third heroic life behind him and a handful of epic past lives (not epic completionist). In that screenshot, the healer has 153 reaper points. The tank has 100ish. The 3 melee have a couple dozen reaper points each, but doesn't have a single tree capped.


Smart play matters. Don't have the HP to tank a Doom or champion? Then don't get aggro so you don't get one-shot. Let one of the "tankier" types get it.
Exactly. The vets with the reaper points are absorbing the higher damage output in reaper roughly as well as they always did, which allows the party to kill stuff faster. Take out the tank and you've got a bunch of squishy melees getting randomly one or two shot without meld and completion times are 3 times longer, just like the OP ;)

[mikarddo]

Mad Tea Party:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/783369236012597270/881967844332548126/R10_Mad_Tea_Party.PNG


Mad Tea in 5 mins? I doubt I could run that fast even on heroic casual.

[Carpone]

Exactly. The vets with the reaper points are absorbing the higher damage output in reaper roughly as well as they always did, which allows the party to kill stuff faster. Take out the tank and you've got a bunch of squishy melees getting randomly one or two shot without meld and completion times are 3 times longer, just like the OP ;)
Reaper has been out 4.5 years. If you can't find a "tankier" type by now, then make a tank. Or perhaps read a Dale Carnegie book to cultivate some friends.

Soul -- the tank in the above screenshot -- tanked R10 Dryad with 18 reaper points. But that doesn't matter, because you'll keep moving the goal posts.

[Monkey_Archer]

Reaper has been out 4.5 years. If you can't find a "tankier" type by now, then make a tank. Or perhaps read a Dale Carnegie book to cultivate some friends.

Soul -- the tank in the above screenshot -- tanked R10 Dryad with 18 reaper points. But that doesn't matter, because you'll keep moving the goal posts.
lol. I have a tank that's perfectly capable of zerging r10s. I'm not moving goal posts... My point is that U50 made r10s easier for vets who can put together a good party despite us asking for r10 to be harder. While simultaneously making r10 even more difficult for pug land players who cant just find the perfect group of experienced players to pike from. This is just true. It has nothing to do with ego or jealously as you seem to be interpreting it.

I'm confident enough in my own play to not feel the need to advocate for changes that make it harder for others to catch up.

[Airmaiden]

There are few R10 LFM's up because the ones that ran it all the time are bored and hit 156 Reaper points over 2 years ago!

Most people get to 75-90 points then get bored because there is little to no incentive to go beyond that .....no cosmetics, little to no power even with huge xp between points.

DDO lost interest in giving us anything to grind 2-3 years ago and what use to be worth grinding for "They NERFED"!!! so WHY (as a player) should we care about even running this game anymore?!?

[Chai]

Scroll up to my screenshots. Nichevo-1 is my third favorite toon. Prior to U50, he had 2 reaper points as a first life bank mule. He now has 40 reaper points, with a whopping third heroic life behind him and a handful of epic past lives (not epic completionist). In that screenshot, the healer has 153 reaper points. The tank has 100ish. The 3 melee have a couple dozen reaper points each, but doesn't have a single tree capped.


Smart play matters. Don't have the HP to tank a Doom or champion? Then don't get aggro so you don't get one-shot. Let one of the "tankier" types get it.

aka get carried through reaper point farming in higher difficulties on characters that only really should be in lower settings. I too am a connoisseur. :p

[Marshal_Lannes]

Account-wide reaper points would be an amazing enhancement to the game. Please strongly consider implementing this!

[draven1]

Part of this problem is from "Static groups using discord or teamspeak".

R10 requires teamwork, and those static groups prefer very limited group of familiar people ONLY for their group.
They just don't use LFM or use LFM for last 1 or 2 player only.

We need some kind of incentives that giving by using LFM.
Like "Stranger bonus xp", 10% per people who wasn't group in 1 or 2 days.

And fix Ghost LFM.
Better quest name search for creating LFM.
Put next quests 1st in Quest chain on Creating LFM.

[slarden]

lol. I have a tank that's perfectly capable of zerging r10s. I'm not moving goal posts... My point is that U50 made r10s easier for vets who can put together a good party despite us asking for r10 to be harder. While simultaneously making r10 even more difficult for pug land players who cant just find the perfect group of experienced players to pike from. This is just true. It has nothing to do with ego or jealously as you seem to be interpreting it.

I'm confident enough in my own play to not feel the need to advocate for changes that make it harder for others to catch up.

It's very complex. I don't think U50 specifically made anything easier for vets or more difficult for others, but these are my observations about U50 so far

1) Spike damage is higher relative to our adjusted hit points
2) As a percentage the gear changes had a smaller impact on characters with significant grind power (past lifes, reaper points). High bonus hp make point #1 less of an issue.
3) My martial build dps went down less than my casting dps. Mathematically this appears to be because caster crits are more dependent on gear.
4) For all characters gear had to be adjusted for U50 to optimize. For example using my pre-U50 gear my dps was down 27.22%, but with some gear changes I was able to change that to 11.38% which means I should be able to take down enemies faster post-U50.
5) Legendary quests before Sharn weren't adjusted as much as Sharn quests or players so to the extent a player or group mostly ran older easy daily reaper quests but had subpar stats for sharn+ it's possible they can be impacted negatively. It wasn't the case for me but I also build my characters to handle the most difficult quests.

Many people I talk to aren't re-gearing with U50 since there are more changes coming in U51. It kind of amazes me because there are some solid gains with U50, but not everyone has the same motivation level to improve their character.

My 3 person casual group was completing R10s before the update and after. 2 of us have high reaper points and the 3rd person is a 2nd lifer with around 40 reaper points, but a much better player than I am - very skilled. The Op's assessment that builds have been decimated and quests take 3x longer does not match my experience, but I am also not sure the comments should be completely dismissed. More data is needed - what build is the op running, what about the rest of the party and what specific things are causing the change? Is it spike damage, dps, cc, tanking, skills, etc. What quests did the OP mainly run before U50 and after?

If someone wants to run high skulls they need to build for it - and if their build stops working after a release they need to refine the build. If someone has to drop skulls that is ok too. If the devs think high skulls are too easy they should feel free to tune up R5+ at any time for any reason.

If many people could run R1 and can't now that should probably be looked at in more detail and the power gamers R10 experience should be ignored. R5+ shouldn't change, but perhaps a more gradual curve from R1 to R4 would make sense if the stat squish squeezed too many people out of reaper. The stat squish was never intended to thin the R1 ranks.

[Oliphant]

Build options opened up so people will be getting more powerful, will take time. Better not to stress too much about state of things right now, its temporary. If DDO wobbles and fails it will be during times of great change like this. We choosing to play or not will be the deciding factor.

[erethizon]

aka get carried through reaper point farming in higher difficulties on characters that only really should be in lower settings. I too am a connoisseur. :p

If that isn't the essence of DDO gameplay I don't know what is. I've been getting carried since the first day I learned that you can only get max favor by playing elite even though my characters at the time were nowhere near appropriate for elite. As my character has gotten more powerful I just semi-pike harder and harder difficulties for more and more reward. This game strongly encourages playing difficulties way above your skill level and having other people carry you.

[erethizon]

The Op's assessment that builds have been decimated and quests take 3x longer does not match my experience, but I am also not sure the comments should be completely dismissed. More data is needed - what build is the op running, what about the rest of the party and what specific things are causing the change? Is it spike damage, dps, cc, tanking, skills, etc. What quests did the OP mainly run before U50 and after?

If someone wants to run high skulls they need to build for it - and if their build stops working after a release they need to refine the build. If someone has to drop skulls that is ok too. If the devs think high skulls are too easy they should feel free to tune up R5+ at any time for any reason.

If many people could run R1 and can't now that should probably be looked at in more detail and the power gamers R10 experience should be ignored. R5+ shouldn't change, but perhaps a more gradual curve from R1 to R4 would make sense if the stat squish squeezed too many people out of reaper. The stat squish was never intended to thin the R1 ranks.

My experience is much the same as yours. I think of myself as an R4 player, though I carry myself very well in an R6 group and contribute quite well. I do not belong in R10. That said, I have joined several R10 groups in the last few days and done several dozen legendary quests on R10 during that time period. My experience is that R10 is going quite well for the people that belong there and sometimes goes poorly for people that don't (myself included). The R10 scene doesn't appear to be dead at all, but it does suffer from the problem a previous poster mentioned that it is very incestuous where the same few dozen people group together all the time and groups often fill without ever being posted on the LFM. I do like the idea of some sort of reward for including a wider range of people in LFM's but that is pretty off topic for this thread.

In short, if R10 is taking someone 3 times longer, that probably means they are not at the ability level for R10 (myself included).

[donblas]

Account-wide reaper points would be an amazing enhancement to the game. Please strongly consider implementing this!

LOL! Then ALL my 49 toons could have 1 reaper point! :D

[Epicsoul]

aka get carried through reaper point farming in higher difficulties on characters that only really should be in lower settings.

It is possible to play a first-life character and be useful in R10s. Can every build and player do it? No. But many can if you know what to do.


You are a Builder, but I doubt you are anywhere on my skill level.

Oh, I can guarantee you two aren't on the same skill level.

[Catabree]

Stop the drama queen rubbish, I ran r10s all weekend for the first time and they are certainly alot easier. Where is everyone, well everyone cried so hard on the forums for balancing reaper, classes. Nerd this nerf that, also comments as who cares about end game players and their reaper...remove reaper etc. To be honest my guess are most like myself are moving to a free to play account and putting the game on the back burner for a year. There is nothing in this game to do anymore, except farm reaper xp on alts. As many end game players have 3-4 toons excess of 120 reaper points and fully finished toons, if not multiple we are bored. Time to catch up on ff14 or some other really good mmorpg. When you start playing other games you realise how bad ddo is, how far behind the curve it really is.

[Catabree]

There are few R10 LFM's up because the ones that ran it all the time are bored and hit 156 Reaper points over 2 years ago!

Most people get to 75-90 points then get bored because there is little to no incentive to go beyond that .....no cosmetics, little to no power even with huge xp between points.

DDO lost interest in giving us anything to grind 2-3 years ago and what use to be worth grinding for "They NERFED"!!! so WHY (as a player) should we care about even running this game anymore?!?

Exactly...

[Catabree]

Edit. R10 is nowhere dead. Monday morning, My Friday. Raekor was running r10 slavelords, and Drex had a group going for R10. This is on Orien BTW.

Goal post moved ...

[slarden]

Account-wide reaper points would be an amazing enhancement to the game. Please strongly consider implementing this!

As Lynnabel said nothing he posts in the discord is a promise or guarantee, but as far as dev thought promise the following is very encouraging - direct quotes from Lynnabel:

"yeah I really genuinely can't think of a reason to be against account wide rxp beyond 'It's change and I hate change'""

"oh no the peasants can have fun on their alts!"

[Epicsoul]

As Lynnabel said nothing he posts in the discord is a promise or guarantee, but as far as dev thought promise the following is very encouraging - direct quotes from Lynnabel:

"yeah I really genuinely can't think of a reason to be against account wide rxp beyond 'It's change and I hate change'""

Would be a fantastic change. The fundamentals of reaper xp and the trees need some work too, if and when reaper gets a pass.


"oh no the peasants can have fun on their alts!"

Peasants should never have fun, whether it's an alt or a main.

[MistaMagic]

Peasants should never have fun, whether it's an alt or a main.

And you should know ROFLMFA :)

[Butchh]

Moved goal posts? I started in February of this year, with RXP as the carrot. I get off work at 7am CST. My grping is limited. I stay here as a newbie, because of the rare groups I do get at R8plus. I also run my own grps at R3-R4. Now Ive read your posts. You are a Builder, but I doubt you are anywhere on my skill level. I have 1 Barb 2nd life with over 30 RP, 1 paladin 3rd life with 21 RP, alt warlock/alt ranger with 4 to 5 RP. I was top 3 Paladin HPS in the entire world in classic wow. Top 70 worldwide progression naxx40 in 2006 as raid lead/GM/MT orc war. Server 1st kill of RTzW in PoP EQ in 2002. Just because your bloated RXP gives you freedom to dictate the direction of this game is asinine. If youre so board of your static grp clearing r10s, I suggest you solo them.

As a new player. dont mess with RP.


Edit. R10 is nowhere dead. Monday morning, My Friday. Raekor was running r10 slavelords, and Drex had a group going for R10. This is on Orien BTW.

Flexing achievements in another game entirely and having to go back nearly two decades to try and validate your point is one of the dumbest things I've ever read here. I don't think that it was ever mentioned in the thread that he was bored of running r10s in a static group. Carpone is one of the most accomplished builders and players in this game, I can guarantee you that he has considerable insight into this topic.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

Carpone is one of the most accomplished builders and players in this game, I can guarantee you that he has considerable insight into this topic.

I believe that this is exactly THE problem. Too much knowledge. Too much experiebnce. Not to mention too many past lives. In some cases.

It really doesn't matter if a tank has 2, 3 or 4 Reaper Points, if the player has been playing this game for 10 years now. And Reaper since it came out.

Wikipedia has an article called "Curse of Knowledge".

[Epicsoul]

I believe that this is exactly THE problem. Too much knowledge. Too much experiebnce.

After a player has been playing the game for 5 years*, the developers should purge the player. This is the ONLY solution.

*Exceptions should be made, since there are many playing 5+ years that don't possess too much knowledge or experience and, therefore, should be allowed to continue.

[Gilga1]

I think there are several reasons why the number of r10 lfm has decreased….
The most relevant are,imo:

1. Threads (and maybe star fragments, nebula) farm. I don't know about you, but I'm always running out of threads, I think I spent 5000 threads on day 1 just to re-roll the gem. Since u50 came out I haven't posted lfm for rxp anymore, just raids.

2. some of us were hoping for an increase in difficulty. As already pointed out by others, now everything is easiest.

3.
There are few R10 LFM's up because the ones that ran it all the time are bored and hit 156 Reaper points over 2 years ago! That’s true… aiming for 300 rap isn't that rewarding xD

[rabidfox]

After a player has been playing the game for 5 years*, the developers should purge the player. This is the ONLY solution.

*Exceptions should be made, since there are many playing 5+ years that don't possess too much knowledge or experience and, therefore, should be allowed to continue.

Every 3rd life one has to roll warforged and if the player hasn't taken improved fortification by level 20 then the account is locked...

[erethizon]

After a player has been playing the game for 5 years*, the developers should purge the player. This is the ONLY solution.

*Exceptions should be made, since there are many playing 5+ years that don't possess too much knowledge or experience and, therefore, should be allowed to continue.

Obviously they should have a say in things, but ideally people that are very good players (the kind that live their lives in R6 through R10) should be focused on what happens in those difficulties and keep their opinions out of changes made to Casual through R1. Likewise people that don't play the upper difficulties should stay out of what should be changed about upper reaper. I like R10 being as easy as possible because it is just a quick way to get RXP for me, but I also accept that R10 really isn't for me and when people like you make suggestions for what should happen to R10 I just stay out of the discussion because it really isn't my place to chime in.

[Oliphant]

Wikipedia has an article called "Curse of Knowledge".

WARNING: This article CANNOT be unread!

[Carpone]

You are a Builder, but I doubt you are anywhere on my skill level.
My (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/520605-Lava-Divers-R10-Too-Hot-To-Handle-World-First) receipts (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/523455-Lava-Divers-at-level-R10-Tower-Of-Despair-world-first) aren't (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/521817-Lava-Divers-Dom-Gunga-Sno-Ying-Gisty-and-Speedy-6-man-R10-Strahd) hard (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/521159-Lava-Divers-R10-Killing-Time-World-First) to (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/522421-Lava-Divers-R10-The-Dryad-and-the-Demigouda-World-First-Acheesement) find (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/523458-Lava-Divers-at-level-R10-Heroic-Vision-of-Destruction-World-First).


I was top 3 Paladin HPS in the entire world in classic wow. Top 70 worldwide progression naxx40 in 2006 as raid lead/GM/MT orc war. Server 1st kill of RTzW in PoP EQ in 2002
Weird flex, but ok.

Naxx40 progression meant nothing unless you could field 8 Warriors for the Four Horsemen fight. Getting to KT was a battle of player attrition and transferring characters, not skill level. I lead a Top 100 guild in Burning Crusade, and we were one of the first guilds to get Alone in the Darkness achievement in Wrath.

In EQ, we killed the Sleeper, farmed up the stupid bane weapons for Ssra Temple first, and continued to out race other guilds all the way to Quarm. You know, up until the point where raid bosses weren't instanced.

Shall we compare GemStone II next, where I wrote one of the first GUI front ends and guides for the game? Or when I reached Level 160 in GemStone III? Or what about the RPG I published? Or the LARP I wrote and ran for 15 years? Or did you run out of goal posts to move?

As for your skill level in DDO, here are some pointers to improve yours based on your Age of Rage videos (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGeZ3sOk17M):

* You don't use spell absorb.
* You don't utilize your CC, so you take too much damage.
* You walk into circles.
* You don't strafe the beholder to the right to avoid the best eye stalk beams.
* You failed to use epic moment in the final quest.

Thank you to Rubbinns for the analysis.


If youre so board of your static grp clearing r10s, I suggest you solo them.
DDO has and will always remain about the players. Killing pixels by myself is boring.

[MistaMagic]

since there are many playing 5+ years that don't possess too much knowledge or experience .

And these are the people always moaning as It is to hard to solo a quest and actualy learn it rather than running after the pack like a headless chicken or running off the cliff like a leming

[MistaMagic]

My (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/520605-Lava-Divers-R10-Too-Hot-To-Handle-World-First) receipts (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/523455-Lava-Divers-at-level-R10-Tower-Of-Despair-world-first) aren't (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/521817-Lava-Divers-Dom-Gunga-Sno-Ying-Gisty-and-Speedy-6-man-R10-Strahd) hard (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/521159-Lava-Divers-R10-Killing-Time-World-First) to (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/522421-Lava-Divers-R10-The-Dryad-and-the-Demigouda-World-First-Acheesement) find (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/523458-Lava-Divers-at-level-R10-Heroic-Vision-of-Destruction-World-First).


Weird flex, but ok.

Naxx40 progression meant nothing unless you could field 8 Warriors for the Four Horsemen fight. Getting to KT was a battle of player attrition and transferring characters, not skill level. I lead a Top 100 guild in Burning Crusade, and we were one of the first guilds to get Alone in the Darkness achievement in Wrath.

In EQ, we killed the Sleeper, farmed up the stupid bane weapons for Ssra Temple first, and continued to out race other guilds all the way to Quarm. You know, up until the point where raid bosses weren't instanced.

Shall we compare GemStone II next, where I wrote one of the first GUI front ends and guides for the game? Or when I reached Level 160 in GemStone III? Or what about the RPG I published? Or the LARP I wrote and ran for 15 years? Or did you run out of goal posts to move?

As for your skill level in DDO, here are some pointers to improve yours based on your Age of Rage videos (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGeZ3sOk17M):

* You don't use spell absorb.
* You don't utilize your CC, so you take too much damage.
* You walk into circles.
* You don't strafe the beholder to the right to avoid the best eye stalk beams.
* You failed to use epic moment in the final quest.

Thank you to Rubbinns for the analysis.


DDO has and will always remain about the players. Killing pixels by myself is boring.

Wow go for it. Being in LD with a group of some of the best players in the game that were poached from other servers is somewhat meaningless but if thats your boat go float it

[Arctigis]

1: I am a dude


I'd suggest changing your forum handle then. I don't think anyone is misgendering you deliberately.

[Carpone]

Being in LD with a group of some of the best players in the game that were poached from other servers
We're the Harlem Globetrotters of DDO.

[Vish]

Carpone, your **** is so funny

You do know that stuffs killing the game

Ok, challenge

DO IT BLINDFOLDED

[delsoboss]

My (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/520605-Lava-Divers-R10-Too-Hot-To-Handle-World-First) receipts (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/523455-Lava-Divers-at-level-R10-Tower-Of-Despair-world-first) aren't (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/521817-Lava-Divers-Dom-Gunga-Sno-Ying-Gisty-and-Speedy-6-man-R10-Strahd) hard (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/521159-Lava-Divers-R10-Killing-Time-World-First) to (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/522421-Lava-Divers-R10-The-Dryad-and-the-Demigouda-World-First-Acheesement) find (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/523458-Lava-Divers-at-level-R10-Heroic-Vision-of-Destruction-World-First).


Weird flex, but ok.

Naxx40 progression meant nothing unless you could field 8 Warriors for the Four Horsemen fight. Getting to KT was a battle of player attrition and transferring characters, not skill level. I lead a Top 100 guild in Burning Crusade, and we were one of the first guilds to get Alone in the Darkness achievement in Wrath.

In EQ, we killed the Sleeper, farmed up the stupid bane weapons for Ssra Temple first, and continued to out race other guilds all the way to Quarm. You know, up until the point where raid bosses weren't instanced.

Shall we compare GemStone II next, where I wrote one of the first GUI front ends and guides for the game? Or when I reached Level 160 in GemStone III? Or what about the RPG I published? Or the LARP I wrote and ran for 15 years? Or did you run out of goal posts to move?

I don't have a dog in this fight but this exchange was so funny!


Or what about the RPG I published?

What RPG is that?


As for your skill level in DDO, here are some pointers to improve yours based on your Age of Rage videos (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGeZ3sOk17M):

* You don't use spell absorb.
* You don't utilize your CC, so you take too much damage.
* You walk into circles.
* You don't strafe the beholder to the right to avoid the best eye stalk beams.
* You failed to use epic moment in the final quest.

Thank you to Rubbinns for the analysis.

It's so strange thinking of more than one person actually taking the time to watch youtube videos of a random other person just to smack them on a web forum. It's the stuff that actual paid professionals in (e)sports do but applying it to DDO sounds very strange to me (I know, it's completely a matter or personal taste).

Anyway, on this note I have an honest question: with your resume it seems obvious that you can get a good grasp of the mechanics and technical aspects of an online MMO quite quickly and then proceed to smash it, but then what keeps you into it? DDO is complex, much more than other games for sure, but it seems to me you've outrun by far the maximum complexity and challenge it could offer and I'm not sure the game can ever be challenging again for you (unless you start doing naked, CON-dumped, reaper trees reset, multiple taint of evil wearing R10 runs for whatever reason...).

[Anuulified]

Wow go for it. Being in LD with a group of some of the best players in the game that were poached from other servers is somewhat meaningless but if thats your boat go float it

Hey Ozz. In every MMO ever, people have been recruited from other servers to form solid raid force guilds. I would go so far as to say it has been a solid practice for 2 decades now (Everquest started in 1999 after all).

[yfernbottom]

Mad Tea in 5 mins?

That is a crazy fast runtime, especially on R10. That would explain some stuff . . .

[TheMuppet2021]

You mean like how you casually expressed your hate for the RL caster belts and we all know where that went.:cool:

you beat me to it!!! lets not forget this. hate on those belts was expressed casually in a forum post then a few months later enhancement spell power was deleted from the game.

[TheMuppet2021]

I believe that this is exactly THE problem. Too much knowledge. Too much experiebnce. Not to mention too many past lives. In some cases.

It really doesn't matter if a tank has 2, 3 or 4 Reaper Points, if the player has been playing this game for 10 years now. And Reaper since it came out.

Wikipedia has an article called "Curse of Knowledge".

So you want to ban vets from the game? LOLOLOLOL

[draven1]

Too much knowledge for OP builds.

[Epicsoul]

That is a crazy fast runtime, especially on R10. That would explain some stuff . . .

I believe the entire RL chain took us an hour that evening. With the right party, R10 runs become very efficient.

[fatherpirate]

R10 are all dead,
might have something to do with a lot of the servers just being dead in general ?

If your in a low pop server ... get used to it.

[count_spicoli]

This argument is ridiculous that r10 should be easier for zerging so I can rack up my reap xp faster. R10 should be a setting that is incredibily hard for the top end players who have all the credentials not for just everybody gettin reap xp. Of course that hasnt been the case for quite some time as r10 almost has become the defacto cap reap mode and pretty much every group completes maybe some faster some slower. This is bad for the game. Im fine with the stat nerfs all around but I would have actually bumped the reaper monsters instead of bring them down too. I think in the end with the all around nerfs it really hasnt changed much to be honest.

[Carpone]

Not being effective in reaper isn't about the challenge difficulty. The number of players participating in reaper is a lag measure. The lead measure is people trying to bring terribly designed and undergeared characters that can complete normal or hard into elite and beyond. From the build clinics and analysis I've done:

* DC casters not maximizing their gear and enhancement DCs.
* DPS not incorporating all of enhancement/insightful/quality deadly/deception/seeker into their gearset.
* DPS not having a source of Competence +1 crit multiplier and +1 crit range.
* Healers having abyssmal positive spellpower, positive crit chance and positive crit "damage".
* Getting one shot because they lack fundamental defenses (PRR/MRR, Dodge, HP, etc).

"But my flavor build". Too many players focus on feelings and not mechanics. Unpopular opinion: Feelings are insufficient to get you an elite or reaper completion. It's one of the reasons I've started posting guides and gameplay feedback, because I got tired of seeing really poor advice being doled out.


It really doesn't matter if a tank has 2, 3 or 4 Reaper Points, if the player has been playing this game for 10 years now. And Reaper since it came out.
Despite my forum date, I haven't been playing since I signed up. I stepped away from this game for nearly six years. Ravenloft is what brought me back, and reaper is what has kept me interested.


It's so strange thinking of more than one person actually taking the time to watch youtube videos of a random other person just to smack them on a web forum.
I provided constructive and detailed feedback about how someone can improve their DDO gameplay.


what keeps you into it?
Friends. It's all about the people.


I believe the entire RL chain took us an hour that evening. With the right party, R10 runs become very efficient.
It's possible with the right luck in Invitation and Amber, and Berez not bugging out. It's also about having people who can split/solo objectives in Invitation, Oath of Vengeance, Waechterhaus and Wizards of Wines.


Part of this problem is from "Static groups using discord". R10 requires teamwork
You aren't wrong. DDO's voice chat was revolutionary when it was released. It hasn't been updated since then (the codec is awful), and Discord has become the defacto gaming standard for community -- even devs engage with players on DDO Discord more than this forum.

[fatherpirate]

There is a certain 'subset' of end game players that are really no fun to play with
and hopefully will be ignored by development.

I wanna BEAT the game - group
or the worse
I BEAT the game, quit cheating me of my victory
by adding more stuff ! - group

Even though it is a (small) subset of end gamers, and they are
nearly the same ... they are generally at odds with each other.

One sees their 'achievement' of defeating the game as the only worth while goal
and that those goal posts should never be moved once they have done it.
End game - to them is all about bragging and informing folks that
have not beat the game how bad they are at it.

The other group (less annoying) wants a constant stream
of new endgame challenges to defeat for fun (no problem so far)
but, they never want to defeat the challenges the normal way, they
want short cuts, exploits, dodges, cheats so that they can pat themselves
on the back on how clever they are by beating the new material in
record time.

Do I personally have a problem with their play style ?
Nah, to each their own. They can do what they want.
Do I want them dictating the direct the game is developed - not really.

my point?

It is my hope that the folks running the game do this with
with the MAJORITY of the player population in mind and not
just the cutting edge content zergers.

Zergers can zerg but there are a bunch of other players out there.

R10 endgame raids are NOT the entirety of DDO

[cmecu]

Add new reapers.. maybe make a reaper that heals other reapers, or a reaper that rezzes other reapers, or a reaper that emits an aura that doesnt allow damage to nearby montsters, or maybe a reaper zone quest where it is nothing but reapers thru the entire dungeon.. all of them, and then a boss reaper at the end :P

[Razor_Wit]

There is a certain 'subset' of end game players that are really no fun to play with
and hopefully will be ignored by development.....R10 endgame raids are NOT the entirety of DDO

This whole post is just phooey. Just how many players do you think are running r10 endgame raids?
A quick look at the Achievements forum will show that just 2 guilds are achieving this success. ET on Orien and Lava Divers on Khyber....

So your suggesting the devs are building the game around these, what? 24 players ?
And by the way these players aren't playing with YOU-ruining you're experience- they train/practice/study and test within guild (and sometimes friends) for these results.
I cannot guess how hey could be affecting you.

[adamkatt]

When was the last time you did R10s? Reaper is *easier* after U50.
I usually solo r4s, and if feels exactly the same to me.

[Catabree]

There is a certain 'subset' of end game players that are really no fun to play with
and hopefully will be ignored by development.

I wanna BEAT the game - group
or the worse
I BEAT the game, quit cheating me of my victory
by adding more stuff ! - group

Even though it is a (small) subset of end gamers, and they are
nearly the same ... they are generally at odds with each other.

One sees their 'achievement' of defeating the game as the only worth while goal
and that those goal posts should never be moved once they have done it.
End game - to them is all about bragging and informing folks that
have not beat the game how bad they are at it.

The other group (less annoying) wants a constant stream
of new endgame challenges to defeat for fun (no problem so far)
but, they never want to defeat the challenges the normal way, they
want short cuts, exploits, dodges, cheats so that they can pat themselves
on the back on how clever they are by beating the new material in
record time.

Do I personally have a problem with their play style ?
Nah, to each their own. They can do what they want.
Do I want them dictating the direct the game is developed - not really.

my point?

It is my hope that the folks running the game do this with
with the MAJORITY of the player population in mind and not
just the cutting edge content zergers.

Zergers can zerg but there are a bunch of other players out there.

R10 endgame raids are NOT the entirety of DDO

Great analysis, have you ever thought about some self reflection? Well let's start, what subgroup would you fit into in this game? Old father of many pirates!

[fatherpirate]

Great analysis, have you ever thought about some self reflection? Well let's start, what subgroup would you fit into in this game? Old father of many pirates!

Me?

Guys that make lots of alts, slowly go through content to enjoy it.
Got a few toons in guilds (not telling which)
Do some HCL when it is active.

How many end game toons did I have?
1

And, I deleted it because I found out that end game raids and most
end game play has absolutely NOTHING to do with D&D... NADDA

I didn't come here to play an elitist endgame zerg grind of elite gear group.
If I wanted that, I would go back to WOW (less lag)

I am here to play D&D

So I try to play the stuff that is like D&D.

and if you have not figured it out yet ... I am against the stuff that is NOT like D&D.

so that is me.

you asked.

[Oxarhamar]

Me?

Guys that make lots of alts, slowly go through content to enjoy it.
Got a few toons in guilds (not telling which)
Do some HCL when it is active.

How many end game toons did I have?
1

And, I deleted it because I found out that end game raids and most
end game play has absolutely NOTHING to do with D&D... NADDA

I didn't come here to play an elitist endgame zerg grind of elite gear group.
If I wanted that, I would go back to WOW (less lag)

I am here to play D&D

So I try to play the stuff that is like D&D.

and if you have not figured it out yet ... I am against the stuff that is NOT like D&D.

so that is me.

you asked.

The game is all D&D ifn it matches your expectations for that or not

[Catabree]

Me?

Guys that make lots of alts, slowly go through content to enjoy it.
Got a few toons in guilds (not telling which)
Do some HCL when it is active.

How many end game toons did I have?
1

And, I deleted it because I found out that end game raids and most
end game play has absolutely NOTHING to do with D&D... NADDA

I didn't come here to play an elitist endgame zerg grind of elite gear group.
If I wanted that, I would go back to WOW (less lag)

I am here to play D&D

So I try to play the stuff that is like D&D.

and if you have not figured it out yet ... I am against the stuff that is NOT like D&D.

so that is me.

you asked.
Just go do that then....

[Inanout]

Just go do that then....

The population is starting to slide again.
Watch what you wish for.

[slarden]

This whole post is just phooey. Just how many players do you think are running r10 endgame raids?
A quick look at the Achievements forum will show that just 2 guilds are achieving this success. ET on Orien and Lava Divers on Khyber....

So your suggesting the devs are building the game around these, what? 24 players ?
And by the way these players aren't playing with YOU-ruining you're experience- they train/practice/study and test within guild (and sometimes friends) for these results.
I cannot guess how hey could be affecting you.

At least based on my experience which is very limited when it comes to push raiding - pushing skulls in raiding vs. R10 questing are two completely different things. The challenge in push raiding is getting 12 capable people to show up with properly built characters for all the right roles.

You don't even need all the roles for R10 questing although filling the key roles makes it that much easier.

The post really has strayed from the op's original topic which has nothing to do with raiding. The OP is claiming it's more difficult to complete high skull reaper quests after U50. While my experience is very different than that of the OP, I have observed the following:

1) Reaper scaling is unchanged and working as intended - Lynnabel said he expected reaper to be more difficult due to this.
2) Player and Sharn+ quest stat sqjuishes were largely offsetting, but older content wasn't squished nearly as much
3) Spike damage is higher relative to our hit point reduction. I can't say it's this way 100% across the board, but there are several places where I notice larger spike damage compared to pre-U50
4) My caster dps was reduced more than my martial character dps. Mathematically this appears to be mostly due to how much caster crits are impacted by gear vs. martial builds
5) Horizon walker is really good - a bow user should feel much stronger after the update
6) Based on a few comparisons of boss hit points the 25% hp reduction wasn't applied to all legendary raid bosses. I didn't check all.

I wish the op would provide more details on the problems he is having and his build. It might help provide some context.

I don't notice much difference in reaper questing including R10s. Based on the known facts the following could make reaper feel more difficult

- Many people are taking breaks after U50. If a person relies on lfms it's quite possible the loss a few strong players can be felt while pugging
- People that had slightly underpowered characters running pre-sharn content dailies might notice their dcs being less effective since enemy saves went down there less than player dcs + reaper scaling is unchanged
- People with lower defenses and fewer reaper points/past lifes might die more due to the larger spike damage which is unlikely to kill 120+ reaper point characters
- If you are playing a caster you might need to re-gear. My warlock dps was down more than 27.22% without any gear changing - after gear changes I was able to reduce that to 11.38% which means my dps is higher relative to the 25% reduction in enemy hp.

Things that would make reaper feel easier
- A full party of experienced reaper players with a high # of martial builds - martial dps wasn't hit as hard so the group will take enemies down faster
- A bow user using horizon walker should feel much stronger
- High reaper points and past lifes - those bonuses weren't stat squished so stronger characters came out much better. Those extra defenses help tremendously against spike damage. In addition a full party mitigates the impact of spike damage since enemies drop faster and there are more targets.


The population is starting to slide again.
Watch what you wish for. Agree, I am hoping people taking breaks return

[Oxarhamar]

I play under certain criteria. Everything bound, No point and click. I dont mean to diss anyone. this is how I play. You will never be as quick as I am, pointing and clicking scrolls. Apology to those I have offended. It is not about knowing the quest. Executing the quest. Pointing even a resto pot is too slow. I think Slarden is an awesome builder. Baghoul/orien is built after him. Carpone. Let me see?

Binding hot keys it definitely quicker than pointing & clicking when you have built the muscle memory for mashing them

I perfer only a few bound keys and less keyboard or game pad buttons than everything bound I keep the things that are needed more hastily like heals or action attack for example bound but not everything I can click teleport scroll that’s not critical to be fast others like curse pot I might put in if I am running stuff that curse many times but not for everyday questing

I know players that not only bind but macro chain spells with game pads they still die when they pop off 5 spells but nothing happens except for the sp gone and cooldown activating (they blame lag I think it’s a target issue(which may be caused lag) from experience similar thing happened with ranged attacks at least this is my impression)

[anangel22]

There is a certain 'subset' of end game players that are really no fun to play with
and hopefully will be ignored by development.

are they less pleasant than some ranting old man spamming the forum all day long? If no, I have an idea whose company most people would prefer...

[Catabree]

are they less pleasant than some ranting old man spamming the forum all day long? If no, I have an idea whose company most people would prefer...

Amen

[Oxarhamar]

Keyboard macro chain will never set you up. Might as well run a awesome-o Hammerdin bot on D2. DDO obviously slows down when one knows the quest. Reaper ****s with a person in a way, even dominating. One has to be able to quickly use dodge or meld in scenarios.

Yeah I definitely don’t use macro myself just adding that it it doesn’t do the job and has problems with the disappearing cast nothing which I experienced with ranged and casting no macros

Is it lag or something else like clipping the floor blocking spell cast I can’t say

[Krell]

I agree r10 LFMs have dropped off compared to a few months ago. As for why, that is just a lot of speculation. Could be lower population but I usually see a lot of LFMs, just for leveling groups though. Could be changes in difficulty after the squish. My general r10 observations are that they take roughly the same amount of time but they play a little differently. Red names go down faster, deaths are more common from champ 1-2 shots, and DCs are a little harder to hit but are achievable. I think if you did well in r10's before, you are probably doing ok now but it may be harder for players that were on the bubble before the squish. I've heard some end game players left because they didn't like the squish. Maybe they will come back, who knows. Some players are finishing epic lives in anticipation for the new ED system. Most likely it is a combination of factors but I do agree overall that a smaller percent of the player base are running high reaper content currently, at least from my perspective. I wouldn't mind seeing a little more incentive but I doubt that will happen anytime soon other than some reaper xp weekend. I am concerned about less end game play when the next hardcore season starts.