Temple of Elemental Evil - Needs some Love !

[Bagel99]

Hello Devs, i am here to ask for you guys to potentially take a few seconds out of your busy schedule to fix a few things that i think are destroying this quest for myself and friends. I'll keep them brief, short and sweet hoping they get read ! Anyways lets begin.

Issues:
1. ToEE part 2 still has a portal glitch, sometimes the shrine wont open for you or have an entrance ... this alone makes it hard to get people to group with or want to complete the quest.
2. Shroom drops on difficulties less than EE or higher. I found getting shrooms to be painful and only dropping 1-2 per chest on EH. I remember on Heroic Elite getting 6-15 of them on Elite and a decent amount on hard. Can we maybe get 5-10 on EH ? i think most people love running on EH unless they are the top 5% and it would allow your content to see more mileage.
3. ToEE weapons dont have sentience ... now i understand crafted items rarely have Sentience and this may not be quest specific but can there be options for either these weapons to obtain sentience or maybe in the future allow Body Armors to carry sentience ( kinda like venom ) to allow builds to utilize older retro gear while allowing them to progress with some flavor into their filigree goals.

I have a couple of small questions i hope a dev could answer as well ! if you have the time :D

1. ToEE is an awesome benchmark for skill and almost like a pre-reaper challenge, do you think when level 40 and maybe even beyond in years to come can we have legendary variants at level 36 for the weapons and armor ? I love their design, simplicity, straightforwardness and i love ToEE and would like to keep playing it moving forward.
2. I know some people dont like Zuggy's AOE party wipe ( i think it follows the pnp ToEE well ) but can we get it on a possible debuff counter or maybe have like vines on her pedestal glow in rings in stages leading up to the big bang ? i think an interactive tell would be awesome, considering your dealing with demons i dont think it would make it too easy as you would need to multitask well.
3. In Part 1 can we get some extra elemental theming for the Wind Key ? i think the minotaur is awesome but can we get possibly a large Air ele boss to go along with him to shake things up with knockdowns and lightning flying about ?

Thank you for your time and the off chance a dev gets to this i know this is asking for alot, workload side its a much much larger task than clicking a few keys but i really dont want the content to be discarded.

( also on a side side note, having an elemental essence vial for each of the kinds in a trinket slot as part of the set seems cool, while also removing the gem of many facets and limiting power ( for items like chrism as well ) if the quests were to get a legendary component later on )

I know this is old content and may not be worthwhile, have my fingers crossed !

[Oxarhamar]

I love TToE the quest don’t care for the end fight

The epic set looks good but is underwhelming in practice

I feel like Herioc might be ok but I’m not running it at that level



I died in HE TToE On Hardcore

[AbyssalMage]

How to fix ToEE:

* Create a Explorer zone/town that will give you all 11 adventures (or save your progress)
* Reduce the NPC density (especially archers).

ToEE pt 1-
* Split into 5 distinct adventures: Earth, Fire, Water, Air (order only a suggestion), Final (this could also be flags??? Is that possible in coding)
* Increase ingredient drops
* Increase named drop in Final fight

ToEE pt 2-
* Split into 6 distinct adventures (players only need to finish one elemental wing to qualify for final fight): Throne, elemental wing x 4, final
* Increase ingredient drops, A LOT in Epic pt. 2

I know it is tricky but "string them together" like Threnal, Necro I, II, III so on reset you start from the beginning.

The greatest downfall for ToEE was its insane difficulty (NPC Density) and the length. That's its downfall and will remain its downfall which is a disservice to a great module.

[erethizon]

ToEE needs one simple but important change. Either put a raise shrine in the room with the final boss in part 2, or even better, remove the lockout barrier for that final boss fight and put a raise shrine in the room before the boss so that anyone that dies on the boss can run out and raise themselves.

I run every quest in the game once each life. Every quest that is except for ToEE. This is entirely because of the end fight in ToEE part 2. Part 1 doesn't get run simply because of its association with part 2.

Now I am sure some people will say I could learn the end fight, blah, blah, blah, but the fact remains this pack is run less than any other pack in the game. It is incredibly unpopular and the reason given by most is the end fight. I'm not even asking to make the end fight any easier (although that would also work), but simply to have a way to raise ourselves so that party wipes don't spell the end of the quest.

[kmoustakas]

Hello Devs, i am here to ask for you guys to potentially take a few seconds out of your busy schedule to fix a few things that i think are destroying this quest for myself and friends. I'll keep them brief, short and sweet hoping they get read ! Anyways lets begin.

Issues:
1. ToEE part 2 still has a portal glitch, sometimes the shrine wont open for you or have an entrance ... this alone makes it hard to get people to group with or want to complete the quest.
2. Shroom drops on difficulties less than EE or higher. I found getting shrooms to be painful and only dropping 1-2 per chest on EH. I remember on Heroic Elite getting 6-15 of them on Elite and a decent amount on hard. Can we maybe get 5-10 on EH ? i think most people love running on EH unless they are the top 5% and it would allow your content to see more mileage.
3. ToEE weapons dont have sentience ... now i understand crafted items rarely have Sentience and this may not be quest specific but can there be options for either these weapons to obtain sentience or maybe in the future allow Body Armors to carry sentience ( kinda like venom ) to allow builds to utilize older retro gear while allowing them to progress with some flavor into their filigree goals.

I have a couple of small questions i hope a dev could answer as well ! if you have the time :D

1. ToEE is an awesome benchmark for skill and almost like a pre-reaper challenge, do you think when level 40 and maybe even beyond in years to come can we have legendary variants at level 36 for the weapons and armor ? I love their design, simplicity, straightforwardness and i love ToEE and would like to keep playing it moving forward.
2. I know some people dont like Zuggy's AOE party wipe ( i think it follows the pnp ToEE well ) but can we get it on a possible debuff counter or maybe have like vines on her pedestal glow in rings in stages leading up to the big bang ? i think an interactive tell would be awesome, considering your dealing with demons i dont think it would make it too easy as you would need to multitask well.
3. In Part 1 can we get some extra elemental theming for the Wind Key ? i think the minotaur is awesome but can we get possibly a large Air ele boss to go along with him to shake things up with knockdowns and lightning flying about ?

Thank you for your time and the off chance a dev gets to this i know this is asking for alot, workload side its a much much larger task than clicking a few keys but i really dont want the content to be discarded.

( also on a side side note, having an elemental essence vial for each of the kinds in a trinket slot as part of the set seems cool, while also removing the gem of many facets and limiting power ( for items like chrism as well ) if the quests were to get a legendary component later on )

I know this is old content and may not be worthwhile, have my fingers crossed !

This being one of my favourite quests to do in DDO, I have some oppinions on the matter. I run it every life on r1 in heroic (at level 11 though) and farm it for casual xp on epic hard. This life I did it as a caster cleric and it was almost a joke with the order's wrath/holy smite combo for 13 sp. I love how it basically feels like a wilderness area.

It's a huge shame the named weapons/orb/shield are not part of the set. It's also a bit sad there is no heroic set because the heroic weapons are awesome.
It's a shame the ranged weapons have the seeker and the melee weapons the explosion - it would be such a great idea to have your off hand weapon as an assasin or tempest give you 20mp as part of the set with the armor. There could have been some customization with the items. Also, the developers since heroic shroud seem to think that a bit of damage on criticals is something superwoah while damage on every hit is meh.

What I hate the most though are the empty rooms. Not the ones that the random generator spawned nothing: the ones that is never ever anything in them. Did someone forget to script those?

I must have like hundrends of elite/reaper completions and still haven't seen an octapus drop. That's just me being unlucky.

[Bagel99]

Id be willing to pay for more ToEE content or a revamp of what is there, i just wish the devs could give us some insight on if fixes had been attempted before and failed xyz etc etc. I love the quest too and on EH its a nice moderate but fun quest to run. I have no ossues with the near 200kxp you get in part 1 and the same for part 2. Its just mechanics and loot tables i think need to be addressed. Also idk if they caught it in the U50 or U49 balance changes for legendary content but it seems like the EE monsters will rough you up fast, like 300+ damage a swing from trash mobs. Hell if i knew how to code/ develop id devote time to this !

Also anyone who has run the actual PnP book can you suggest additions or ideas for quests for a ToEE mini expansion/ revamp. They added to lordsmarch, why not add to ToEE

[brian14]

the fact remains this pack is run less than any other pack in the game. It is incredibly unpopular and the reason given by most is the end fight. I'm not even asking to make the end fight any easier (although that would also work), but simply to have a way to raise ourselves so that party wipes don't spell the end of the quest.

Ugh. Shortly after Update 50 I soloed TOEE Part 2 on my main in order to get 400 Gatekeeper favor. My main is a completionist, and had just reached level 20 -- with maxed out ED's. I ran it on Heroic elite. In the end fight I died 4 or 5 times.

Admittedly, it was a particularly stupid build (Sorc 12 / Bard 8), but still...

[Oxarhamar]

How to fix ToEE:

* Create a Explorer zone/town that will give you all 11 adventures (or save your progress)
* Reduce the NPC density (especially archers).

ToEE pt 1-
* Split into 5 distinct adventures: Earth, Fire, Water, Air (order only a suggestion), Final (this could also be flags??? Is that possible in coding)
* Increase ingredient drops
* Increase named drop in Final fight

ToEE pt 2-
* Split into 6 distinct adventures (players only need to finish one elemental wing to qualify for final fight): Throne, elemental wing x 4, final
* Increase ingredient drops, A LOT in Epic pt. 2

I know it is tricky but "string them together" like Threnal, Necro I, II, III so on reset you start from the beginning.

The greatest downfall for ToEE was its insane difficulty (NPC Density) and the length. That's its downfall and will remain its downfall which is a disservice to a great module.

I agree that it could have been multiple quests

same with HH could have had multiple quests in it (more than just extended) like a quest for each of the optionals then you are flagged for the dragon

Now save a few quests with 2 in one map I think that we don’t get more quests with multiple quests on the same map because of Splinter Skull which is redundant but honesty I love Splinter Skull and I love returning to the same map to extend the storyline

[Saekee]

I like the multiple quests ideas mentioned above since that would also give more favor, maybe even make them wilderness zones

The heroic crafted ones hold up pretty well; the epic ones do not. The named items are very good.

I would add more rare upgrade shrooms like doublestrike 10, doubleshot 10, etc etc. instead of just the 2/4 MP/RP ones. Then you would have an incentive to farm away hoping to get them.

Armors are now part of a lot of named item sets but it is conceivable to work these in there now with the new epic sets, so you change up just the armor at level 26.

I would make them ML 24 though honestly

[Bagel99]

I like the multiple quests ideas mentioned above since that would also give more favor, maybe even make them wilderness zones

The heroic crafted ones hold up pretty well; the epic ones do not. The named items are very good.

I would add more rare upgrade shrooms like doublestrike 10, doubleshot 10, etc etc. instead of just the 2/4 MP/RP ones. Then you would have an incentive to farm away hoping to get them.

Armors are now part of a lot of named item sets but it is conceivable to work these in there now with the new epic sets, so you change up just the armor at level 26.

I would make them ML 24 though honestly

I don't know about them becoming useless, and i think they should have different effects via elements. Electric = Alacrity, Fire = Crit Range, Water = 1% reduction in attack/ movement speed per hit and Earth = Dot on confirmed critical hit to enemies in an area. I think we have a ton of options for Dubshot and dubstrike from passives, enhancements and other gear like rings most people use as damage adders. i suggested the trinket essence be added to complete a set and allow for a minor artifact ( trinket ) and sentient weapon ( toee crafty weapon ) to allow it to scale into upper epics and fit niche builds like Strims acid arrow toons or EK assistance for gear jenga, even warlock ES swf toons. It would open a ton of options which is what i believe keeps us playing ddo !

In regards to quests, i would love a chain or saga to be added ! seems like the ToEE we know could be combined into a raid and many quests for elemental attunement and pacifying the lands could be added. Quest to kill Sorcerers turned bad, Water Savant poisoning supplies and peeving off druids natural order etc.

I also think many would be willing to shell out some support $$ for content or dev time to streamline the game and its existing content. Why not have Expansion pack esk bundles throughout the year with XP pot, AS, Slayer Boosts and some Cosmetics developed by the team for say $60 as a Seasonal Spirits bundle to offset costs and keep revenue coming in. Im throwing out ideas to pay for time developing this stuff. SSG take my moneh but consider our thoughts on ToEE too !

[Bagel99]

Friendly Bump, would love more opinions and maybe some from ssg ;)

[Kielbasa]

I wish slayer pots worked in there. A group of six that can split up would be able to easily hit the slayer cap in there that way and with an xp pot running I bet you'd get similar xp to running epic orchard to 7500. Plus the added benefit of sentient food. Alternatively if slayer pots worked in there a solo person could find spiders and do something kind of like a poor mans kings forest as well. Every now and then I solo clear part 1 to change up my epic leveling and by the time I hit 750 on the slayer count the respawns are too slow and I'm sick of waiting for it to repopulate so I usually just finish at that point.

[Marshal_Lannes]

Level placement and quest time kill ToEE. It competes with tons of faster easier high XP quests for L9 - think Sentinals (saga), Deleras, Tear/Gwylans. People running XP pots won't do ToEE - and they are usually the players you need in your group to finish at ToEE on reaper. Well, part one can be done, but in part two you need serious characters. I don't mind have a few high challenge quests around but there should be some reward the quest gives. As pointed out, the drop rates on mushrooms are far too low especially when the epic weapons have basically been deregulated without being sentience capable.

Don't lose hope though. The Demon Queen was resurrected with U50. Perhaps the Temple will rise again in the future.

[Oxarhamar]

Level placement and quest time kill ToEE. It competes with tons of faster easier high XP quests for L9 - think Sentinals (saga), Deleras, Tear/Gwylans. People running XP pots won't do ToEE - and they are usually the players you need in your group to finish at ToEE on reaper. Well, part one can be done, but in part two you need serious characters. I don't mind have a few high challenge quests around but there should be some reward the quest gives. As pointed out, the drop rates on mushrooms are far too low especially when the epic weapons have basically been deregulated without being sentience capable.

Don't lose hope though. The Demon Queen was resurrected with U50. Perhaps the Temple will rise again in the future.

Not having IPS yet keep me out on heroics just too much mobs to single target pew pew

[Bagel99]

Level placement and quest time kill ToEE. It competes with tons of faster easier high XP quests for L9 - think Sentinals (saga), Deleras, Tear/Gwylans. People running XP pots won't do ToEE - and they are usually the players you need in your group to finish at ToEE on reaper. Well, part one can be done, but in part two you need serious characters. I don't mind have a few high challenge quests around but there should be some reward the quest gives. As pointed out, the drop rates on mushrooms are far too low especially when the epic weapons have basically been deregulated without being sentience capable.

Don't lose hope though. The Demon Queen was resurrected with U50. Perhaps the Temple will rise again in the future.

Right, i understand the XP concerns but i think the quests are run more for the single time completion or trying to get a decent weapon ( in theory ). with the lack of sentience of epic items and lack of mats given unless your on EE on such a resource intense quest i think thats the fall through. Just wish someone from SSG would acknowledge they were looking into this ... i feel like ToEE even from the start was pushed out and then left to hang

[Aelonwy]

There are some great aspects of ToEE, the art work was phenomenal, just fantastically well done. The voicework of the characters was really good. I could have done without Will Wheaton but I don't hate him either. I think the orb that bugs me the most is the one where he says he doesn't really remember playing ToEE, that his character may have died very early on. Every time I hear that one my brain says "so why were you picked for this then huh?"

I really don't see why they couldn't have made an intro quest with the village of Hommlet or even just a part of the village with the rest inaccessible sort of the way Battle for Eveningstar gives you access to part of Eveningstar but you can see the rest beyond walls. Then we could have gotten some more lore, perhaps met one of the Gatekeepers in Hommlet for more information or guidance.

I really would have preferred the first quest at least split into 2 maybe 3 parts, the 2nd quest split into the upper temple completing on the dais and then access to 4 elemental slayer zones with a central hub between them. Collect any one elemental stone and you have access to the final quest with Zuggotmoy or collect all keystones for a buff or debuff benefit in the fight with Zuggotmoy. That's how I would have arranged it anyway.

Oh and one more thing I would have done very differently... Not so much mobs just standing around in rooms or hallways doing jack-all but twiddling their thumbs. I would have had mobs sitting and eating in the dining hall but able to jump up and take us on like the cultist at the start of Lords of Dust. I would have had patrols actively and routinely marching up and down the hallways. I would have had smith looking mobs in the smithy rooms. Mobs sleeping on the bunks in the dormitories like the mobs in Dream Conspiracy. Mobs doing military formations or such in the large middle room. Mobs doing worship prayers and kneeling in the temple-like rooms. I would have made it look far more real and feel far more important and sinister because of that atmosphere. Instead we were given a murder-hobo flavored ToEE with totally random clone-stamp mob groups waiting in nearly every room, nearly every hallway, around nearly every corner whose sole existence is for the purpose of waiting to die at our hands.

[Bagel99]

There are some great aspects of ToEE, the art work was phenomenal, just fantastically well done. The voicework of the characters was really good. I could have done without Will Wheaton but I don't hate him either. I think the orb that bugs me the most is the one where he says he doesn't really remember playing ToEE, that his character may have died very early on. Every time I hear that one my brain says "so why were you picked for this then huh?"

I really don't see why they couldn't have made an intro quest with the village of Hommlet or even just a part of the village with the rest inaccessible sort of the way Battle for Eveningstar gives you access to part of Eveningstar but you can see the rest beyond walls. Then we could have gotten some more lore, perhaps met one of the Gatekeepers in Hommlet for more information or guidance.

I really would have preferred the first quest at least split into 2 maybe 3 parts, the 2nd quest split into the upper temple completing on the dais and then access to 4 elemental slayer zones with a central hub between them. Collect any one elemental stone and you have access to the final quest with Zuggotmoy or collect all keystones for a buff or debuff benefit in the fight with Zuggotmoy. That's how I would have arranged it anyway.

Oh and one more thing I would have done very differently... Not so much mobs just standing around in rooms or hallways doing jack-all but twiddling their thumbs. I would have had mobs sitting and eating in the dining hall but able to jump up and take us on like the cultist at the start of Lords of Dust. I would have had patrols actively and routinely marching up and down the hallways. I would have had smith looking mobs in the smithy rooms. Mobs sleeping on the bunks in the dormitories like the mobs in Dream Conspiracy. Mobs doing military formations or such in the large middle room. Mobs doing worship prayers and kneeling in the temple-like rooms. I would have made it look far more real and feel far more important and sinister because of that atmosphere. Instead we were given a murder-hobo flavored ToEE with totally random clone-stamp mob groups waiting in nearly every room, nearly every hallway, around nearly every corner whose sole existence is for the purpose of waiting to die at our hands.

I agree whole heartedly, so so so much potential could have been had here and loot tweaked ever so to entice players back to a new and improved experience. Again cant say it enough, id shell out a couple crisp paper fiat currency things to get my toon running through an elemental paradise turned evil

[Firebreed]

Solid ideas in this thread, but I fear devs won't be interested in updating this pack, no matter how much it needs it.

[Oxarhamar]

I also like the way TToE is laid out its not as convoluted as many quests

[erethizon]

Solid ideas in this thread, but I fear devs won't be interested in updating this pack, no matter how much it needs it.

Yeah, there are some great ideas here, but I am inclined to agree with you. That is why my suggestion was so quick and simple (just adding a shrine to end fight). I'm not asking for the world, just to make the necessary change so that people will be willing to run it.

[Saekee]

just throwing this out there--as you earn xp in the quest for opts, you get the xp right away.

[brian14]

How to fix ToEE:

* Create a Explorer zone/town that will give you all 11 adventures (or save your progress)
* Reduce the NPC density (especially archers).

ToEE pt 1-
* Split into 5 distinct adventures: Earth, Fire, Water, Air (order only a suggestion), Final (this could also be flags??? Is that possible in coding)
* Increase ingredient drops
* Increase named drop in Final fight

ToEE pt 2-
* Split into 6 distinct adventures (players only need to finish one elemental wing to qualify for final fight): Throne, elemental wing x 4, final
* Increase ingredient drops, A LOT in Epic pt. 2

I know it is tricky but "string them together" like Threnal, Necro I, II, III so on reset you start from the beginning.

The greatest downfall for ToEE was its insane difficulty (NPC Density) and the length. That's its downfall and will remain its downfall which is a disservice to a great module.
I very much agree with AbyssalMage. TOEE is too much of a time commitment, especially Part 2. I would run TOEE much more if it were split as per his suggestion.

[Oxarhamar]

I very much agree with AbyssalMage. TOEE is too much of a time commitment, especially Part 2. I would run TOEE much more if it were split as per his suggestion.

Yep each element could have been it’s own quest easy

[Cybersquirt]

Not having IPS yet keep me out on heroics just too much mobs to single target pew pew

+1

[erethizon]

Just ran ToEE part 2 last night and a Hezerou somehow teleported outside the lockout barrier making it impossible to complete (he refused to teleport back inside and we couldn't hurt him). If you must have these stupid lockout barriers on bosses (and really, you shouldn't) at least make sure they don't result in a complete failure of the quest.

[brian14]

Just ran ToEE part 2 last night and a Hezerou somehow teleported outside the lockout barrier making it impossible to complete (he refused to teleport back inside and we couldn't hurt him). If you must have these stupid lockout barriers on bosses (and really, you shouldn't) at least make sure they don't result in a complete failure of the quest.

Were you on Reaper difficulty?

I am asking because if worst comes to worst, one person could recall, re-enter the quest, and kill the Hezrou. But you can not do it on Reaper.