Server Attitudes.

[Looting_Bin]

So, there I was after getting all the rewards from hardcore server coming back and hitting up some raids on my main. Mind you I started at head-start (which was for people that pre-ordered the game). I had seen some videos on the Fey Raid and was wanting to join one. Glorious there was an lfm up. Excellent, I thought to my self. As we were waiting for people to gather the party leader asked if there was anyone new to the raid no judgment's would be made. So, being spoiled by the politeness of the hardcore server admitted this would be my first completion. (who hasn't jumped into raids to see the mechanics these days?) Then when asked if I knew how to dance I asked "like emote?". The party leader then booted me from the raid stating he didn't want to explain an entire raid to a dps. I of course told him there isnt much to explain to dps what to do in a raid. This is the reason the server is losing population and failing to grow. The attitudes here need to improve and stop assuming someone cant figure out move left forward right and back. I have been all over this server and been playing far longer than most people that currently play. I never assume that the person I am playing with can always be replaced. There's a reason why less and less are joining and more and more are leaving.

All I am trying to say is I have taught countless raids to countless people far more complex than "move". You want to be able to keep playing then make an atmosphere where people feel welcomed and not beat down by your pride.

[cru121]

This is sad. Sorry to hear that you run into an idiot.

Good news that the "dance" part is pretty easy.

Special mechanic: Hyrsam occasionally plays a fairly lethal song, asking you to move as he plays. Watch out for DM text and arrows above your character's head and move accordingly: Strafe left, strafe right, run forward, run back. Your character does not actually have to move (you can bump into an obstacle, that's not a problem), and you can also turn around while doing the moves. If you fail to move as commanded, your character takes significant damage.

[mikarddo]

Sorry to hear that. I have led many PUG raids on G-land also for Dryad and never kicked anyone for being new to a raid.

[Gniewomir]

Too few details. While there're difficulties that allow teaching newbies (LN/LH) there're also difficulties like r10 where even the smallest mistake can cause entire party to wipe, so i could understand leader who would prefer someone more experienced and i see nothing wrong about it (in fact i would be the first to kick from party someone joining r10 quests without even maxed ed). The attitude is not one side only thing. There's a difference between leader being a **** and leader simply doing his job - the second one also include forming party that have a chance of completing specific quest/raid on chosen difficulty instead of wasting 12 people time without any chance of completing. On the other hand there're players with attitude like "oh, i don't care what difficulty, i'm good enough, i don't give a **** about preparation, ill let others carry me, i have no clue what to do, i dont care". Last two quarrels i had as a raid leader were:

1. After i kicked someone from LN THTH when it was still a thing. I told 1st life player with lvl 0 ED (lvl 30 means he got enough xp to max at least 4 of them) to change ed to maxed one. He ignored my politely expressed order and after i kicked him he was surprised a lot cause i don't know his build, he dont need ed and then started calling me names.
2. After i (once again politely) asked 3 players to leave group after RSO cause they were soulstones all the time and the next thing we were going to run was R1 KT pug (again: when it was still a thing to not disregard).

Like i said, too few details in this thread to even judge who is the bad guy here.

For the record: i do believe telling leader that you're new/dont know raid is even mandatory, i still appreciate players who do it instead of causing mess inside and then admitting they have no clue what to do. I have no problem with newbies and when it's possible i always try to provide basic information what to do/what to not do if i know someone is new. But there're raids/difficulties that i would probably ask someone new to leave.

PS: i don't know dryad, bought fey recently so once again i cant judge what dps do here, but dps in ddo is not always just staying in one place and doing nothing except swinging sword. If someone who don't know raid would be cheeky enough to tell me that there's nothing for him to learn cause he's dps so he can run like a headless chicken and just swing his sword - it's probably not the attitude i would like to see in my party.

[MacDubh]

The Fey raid is fairly simple and newb friendly, plenty of folk will explain mechanics even if leader doesn't.

As long as there are a few experienced folk (puzzler, bluffer, plus generic healer and tank. instakiller nice) there is no real problem in having a default dps approach of just follow the gang.

Always nice to at least read the wiki for raids (or watch a vid), but the raid leader here was bang out of order.

Generally have had good experience with raids on G-land.
Occasional issues with overambitiousness (e.g. folk joining a reaper raid when not really capable. A few can be carried but not too many)
Only once booted from a raid pre-start because the raid leader didn't like my fighter being in Leg Dreadnought - told me to change to a 'better destiny' and booted when I didn't. But he's an isolated case, may have had bad experiences in past. It was only Baba.

As an altoholic I run a variety of toons in raids, and know some are way stronger than others. I keep the weaker toons out of harder raids/higher diffficulties, as I don't like being a passenger.

The G-land raiding scene at the moment is quite lively and inclusive. Don't give up.

[Gniewomir]

The Fey raid is fairly simple and newb friendly, plenty of folk will explain mechanics even if leader doesn't.

As long as there are a few experienced folk (puzzler, bluffer, plus generic healer and tank. instakiller nice) there is no real problem in having a default dps approach of just follow the gang.


And thats something OP had no clue about, cause like he said he never run the raid. For example R1 strahd pug for a few months after release was like 30 min struggle through stairs and then one dps with no clue what to do could cause entire party to wipe at cards or brides/strahd (killing them one by one without any coordination). I still remember wipes in deathwyrms years ago cause half of party was dead but too cool to listen to leader and run away from stones twice to get rid of anti raise thingie. Like i said, i don't know dryad, but neither do OP so he had no right to judge what dps should or shouldn't do in this specific raid. I can understand frustration after being kicked from party, but if i would ask someone to leave and he would respond in so cheeky way (here: i'm dps, i don't have to know anything, i can just swing my sword) i would probably squelch him and make sure to not allow him ever again into any of my lfms, cause i'm not going to waste my time arguing with someone who never run a raid but that doesnt stop him from being arrogant enough to tell leader what he's allowed to expect from team members.

Just for clarification: i agree kicking someone without any reason is rude, but also i don't see a problem in kicking someone from party when there's a good reason to do it. And from my experience people who do argue after being kicked are usually not a nice guys.

[awar1234]

First I want to say come to ARGO. So friendly and helpful here, but then I want to no don’t come because we don’t need the elitism to come here.

Sarlona is bad also. Tried that server and search out a YouTube poster over there and he would not help me or even let me join his guild until I “prove” myself???? I don’t go to Sarlona anymore or watch his videos.

IMHO this is just a game.... come on people.... just a game. If you can’t even helpful and polite in a game then your real world life is going to be worse.
If you feel entitled or elite in a game, then you got problems.

So come here her to Argo, you will get help and be willing to help others even if it conflicts with your ego.

[Epicsoul]

Then when asked if I knew how to dance I asked "like emote?". The party leader then booted me from the raid stating he didn't want to explain an entire raid to a dps.

It's an easy raid with simple mechanics. Explaining the entire raid would have taken maybe 2min. Perhaps the leader lacks the capacity to teach. The only way I might agree with the party leader is if it was R1+. Regardless, it was handled bad.

However, I recommend all new raiders watch videos (like you did), as well as read any existing guides before joining raids. That way one has SOME understanding of the mechanics, even if it's not first-hand experience.

[Lonnbeimnech]

I'll explain the entire raid, everything you need to know in 3 steps.

1. Follow the other melee
2. Attack the enemies
3. There isn't a 3rd step, just go back to 1.

fin

[Bacon_Burger]

If ANY player boots someone not familiar a quest or a RAID that requires teamwork and helping the 1st time runner, then that person is a jerk.

DDO is built on a MULTI-PLAYER platform, (solo doesn't count here). If a raid leader doesn't like that or whatever, then that person should NOT be leading a raid.

OP, put that person on your friend list, so you know who to send festival twigs or coal to. :rolleyes:

[Looting_Bin]

Too few details. While there're difficulties that allow teaching newbies (LN/LH) there're also difficulties like r10 where even the smallest mistake can cause entire party to wipe, so i could understand leader who would prefer someone more experienced and i see nothing wrong about it (in fact i would be the first to kick from party someone joining r10 quests without even maxed ed). The attitude is not one side only thing. There's a difference between leader being a **** and leader simply doing his job - the second one also include forming party that have a chance of completing specific quest/raid on chosen difficulty instead of wasting 12 people time without any chance of completing. On the other hand there're players with attitude like "oh, i don't care what difficulty, i'm good enough, i don't give a **** about preparation, ill let others carry me, i have no clue what to do, i dont care". Last two quarrels i had as a raid leader were:

1. After i kicked someone from LN THTH when it was still a thing. I told 1st life player with lvl 0 ED (lvl 30 means he got enough xp to max at least 4 of them) to change ed to maxed one. He ignored my politely expressed order and after i kicked him he was surprised a lot cause i don't know his build, he dont need ed and then started calling me names.
2. After i (once again politely) asked 3 players to leave group after RSO cause they were soulstones all the time and the next thing we were going to run was R1 KT pug (again: when it was still a thing to not disregard).

Like i said, too few details in this thread to even judge who is the bad guy here.

For the record: i do believe telling leader that you're new/dont know raid is even mandatory, i still appreciate players who do it instead of causing mess inside and then admitting they have no clue what to do. I have no problem with newbies and when it's possible i always try to provide basic information what to do/what to not do if i know someone is new. But there're raids/difficulties that i would probably ask someone new to leave.

PS: i don't know dryad, bought fey recently so once again i cant judge what dps do here, but dps in ddo is not always just staying in one place and doing nothing except swinging sword. If someone who don't know raid would be cheeky enough to tell me that there's nothing for him to learn cause he's dps so he can run like a headless chicken and just swing his sword - it's probably not the attitude i would like to see in my party.


So I have a Soulrazor my sentient weapon with 3 full sentient sets plus additional for more bonuses. I have well over 100 past lives with ED's full, and completionist (class and Epic) and casually doing racial as they came out after I finished the others. 2 million plus RXP. As I said I was on my main I have been around the block 1000+ times. The raid... which lets be honest for a DPS is not that complex when the other roles are covered. The raid was only on R1 which is easier than elite because you get the bonuses of all those reaper points. But my complaint here is that instead of being polite or asking if I could handle my simple role, I was booted. The elitest pride they showed me is the same reason people don't want to play many end game raids. Because the people there are so rude. I am simply saying we as a server need to act better than that. We need to communicate and grow together because tomorrow you may only have new players left. Most days I pug and 90% of people started well after me. I am absolutely sure the party leader started after me as well. I do teach still the quest I know, and share even on higher reapers. But to assume someone isn't good enough because you don't party with them everyday is a sure fire way to push people away from playing DDO.

The action isnt the issue the attitude is.

[Looting_Bin]

And thats something OP had no clue about, cause like he said he never run the raid. For example R1 strahd pug for a few months after release was like 30 min struggle through stairs and then one dps with no clue what to do could cause entire party to wipe at cards or brides/strahd (killing them one by one without any coordination). I still remember wipes in deathwyrms years ago cause half of party was dead but too cool to listen to leader and run away from stones twice to get rid of anti raise thingie. Like i said, i don't know dryad, but neither do OP so he had no right to judge what dps should or shouldn't do in this specific raid. I can understand frustration after being kicked from party, but if i would ask someone to leave and he would respond in so cheeky way (here: i'm dps, i don't have to know anything, i can just swing my sword) i would probably squelch him and make sure to not allow him ever again into any of my lfms, cause i'm not going to waste my time arguing with someone who never run a raid but that doesnt stop him from being arrogant enough to tell leader what he's allowed to expect from team members.

Just for clarification: i agree kicking someone without any reason is rude, but also i don't see a problem in kicking someone from party when there's a good reason to do it. And from my experience people who do argue after being kicked are usually not a nice guys.


But as I said I did research it with vids watching entire raids both failure and success on youtube. But as I said the attitude was the issue not the action.

[Enoach]

Really you were kicked because you didn't know that you would be given Arrows on the screen like dancing arcade game?

I'm pretty sure even if no one explained it to you, you would painfully figure it out :)

Now as someone that leads raids, I actually appreciate being told "first time here", that allows me to put on my 'Tour Guide' persona. If you don't tell me, you could miss out on a lot of information that can help you the next time you join that raid.

Generally speaking if you are new to a raid, don't touch/do anything until you are told to, or you see others doing it :) 90% of the time you follow that you will be good.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

The Fey raid is fairly simple and newb friendly,

Which makes me wonder even more why it was never released as a low-level raid !

I'll never understand that.

[Torkzed]

So I have a Soulrazor my sentient weapon with 3 full sentient sets plus additional for more bonuses. I have well over 100 past lives with ED's full, and completionist (class and Epic) and casually doing racial as they came out after I finished the others. 2 million plus RXP. As I said I was on my main I have been around the block 1000+ times. The raid... which lets be honest for a DPS is not that complex when the other roles are covered. The raid was only on R1 which is easier than elite because you get the bonuses of all those reaper points. But my complaint here is that instead of being polite or asking if I could handle my simple role, I was booted. The elitest pride they showed me is the same reason people don't want to play many end game raids. Because the people there are so rude. I am simply saying we as a server need to act better than that. We need to communicate and grow together because tomorrow you may only have new players left. Most days I pug and 90% of people started well after me. I am absolutely sure the party leader started after me as well. I do teach still the quest I know, and share even on higher reapers. But to assume someone isn't good enough because you don't party with them everyday is a sure fire way to push people away from playing DDO.

The action isnt the issue the attitude is.


Okay, so this was on R1?

While I definitely agree it could have been handled better by the raid leader, I can start to understand it a bit better. I probably would not be shocked if a raid leader had suggested you try it on LH before doing it on R1, but they could have been polite about it.

There is a very large step up from LH (the most common level the raid is currently PUGed on G-Land) and R1. I don't think anyone bothers with LE at all. (A practice common to pretty much all raids...) If you have never run the raid before, it is much better to run it a few times on LH to get a feel for what is going on. There are plenty of opportunities to do so...it gets PUGed all the time on LH and is usually smooth. Occasionally, it is less smooth and you will get to learn the "dance". :)

I'm sorry for your experience, but I don't agree at all with the generalization that G-Land raiders are all elitist. It is far more common to have very nice and polite folks leading the PUG raids (Mikarddo, for example, has posted in this thread. He is great for leading PUG raids, but I think I usually see him post Dryad for LH.)

[Looting_Bin]

Really you were kicked because you didn't know that you would be given Arrows on the screen like dancing arcade game?

I'm pretty sure even if no one explained it to you, you would painfully figure it out :)

Now as someone that leads raids, I actually appreciate being told "first time here", that allows me to put on my 'Tour Guide' persona. If you don't tell me, you could miss out on a lot of information that can help you the next time you join that raid.

Generally speaking if you are new to a raid, don't touch/do anything until you are told to, or you see others doing it :) 90% of the time you follow that you will be good.


I agree with you on all fronts the raid is simple in its design and you do specific things that are easily communicated to players but important to do. Being that this raid and my role in it were fairly if not stupidly simple the attitude I had gotten was uncalled for. I am by no means saying OH he should have taken me but the dialogue options he choose are what's driving people away.

I find it hard to play when considering the lack of player base is coupled with the few remaining souls being rude. I wonder if I should just realize the game is dead after MANY years playing and move on. I have no problem running reapers and after that I decided to TR in hopes of finding some other players more social, yet now I am soloing reapers leveling up. But that is my issue if the only people left are rarely on or rude why play a multiplayer game where you cant stand the multiplayer aspect. I started playing during head-start before the game went live pay to play. I witnessed the first MOD and many that followed till they moved to updates and expansions with free to play. Yet after 15 years of playing this is the first time I looked around and saw something I didn't like.

[rabidfox]

Okay, so this was on R1?

While I definitely agree it could have been handled better by the raid leader, I can start to understand it a bit better. I probably would not be shocked if a raid leader had suggested you try it on LH before doing it on R1, but they could have been polite about it.

There is a very large step up from LH (the most common level the raid is currently PUGed on G-Land) and R1. I don't think anyone bothers with LE at all. (A practice common to pretty much all raids...) If you have never run the raid before, it is much better to run it a few times on LH to get a feel for what is going on. There are plenty of opportunities to do so...it gets PUGed all the time on LH and is usually smooth. Occasionally, it is less smooth and you will get to learn the "dance". :)
Yeah, R1 is a fairly significant step up from LH. LH is pretty easy and hard to mess up; I've seen R1 pugs go sideways even with people who know what they're doing (we've typically recovered but it can be an ugly win but that's pugs for ya). Booting someone without suggesting learning it on LH is a bit harsh, but I can understand the reasoning for not wanting someone's first time to be in a reaper run.

[Looting_Bin]

Yeah, R1 is a fairly significant step up from LH. LH is pretty easy and hard to mess up; I've seen R1 pugs go sideways even with people who know what they're doing (we've typically recovered but it can be an ugly win but that's pugs for ya). Booting someone without suggesting learning it on LH is a bit harsh, but I can understand the reasoning for not wanting someone's first time to be in a reaper run.


Again this post is about the attitudes we share with players not the actions taken.

[Gniewomir]

So I have a Soulrazor my sentient weapon with 3 full sentient sets plus additional for more bonuses. I have well over 100 past lives with ED's full, and completionist (class and Epic) and casually doing racial as they came out after I finished the others. 2 million plus RXP. As I said I was on my main I have been around the block 1000+ times. The raid... which lets be honest for a DPS is not that complex when the other roles are covered. The raid was only on R1 which is easier than elite because you get the bonuses of all those reaper points. But my complaint here is that instead of being polite or asking if I could handle my simple role, I was booted. The elitest pride they showed me is the same reason people don't want to play many end game raids. Because the people there are so rude. I am simply saying we as a server need to act better than that. We need to communicate and grow together because tomorrow you may only have new players left. Most days I pug and 90% of people started well after me. I am absolutely sure the party leader started after me as well. I do teach still the quest I know, and share even on higher reapers. But to assume someone isn't good enough because you don't party with them everyday is a sure fire way to push people away from playing DDO.

The action isnt the issue the attitude is.

I assure you i've got "similar" stats + much, much more rxp and joining newest raid (the one i've never run before) on the highest difficulty (pugs are doing) is the last thing i would do. Like Torkzed said, there's plenty of LH dryad lfms every day to learn it without any preassure. If you see lfm for the highest difficulty (pugs are doing) then it's either:
- a mistake that soon after starting will become a disaster
- or lfm hosted by experienced players who might expect similar skills/knowledge
How many lifes you have is irrelevant. I play on ghallanda too and i know players who have 100+ pls, years of playing and they still have huge problems to run any ee quest alone. There's not many of them, but they're here. And it's not like amount of past lifes is waving like a flag above your head, not everybody have to know how long everyone play etc.

I see more and more arrogancy here and i sincerely don't like it. "i did 100 pls so noone will tell me what i can run and what i cant". "dps is simple role and everyone who thinks otherwise is stupid", "im dps so im allowed to have no clue what to do", "leader started playing after me, so he got no right to judge if he needs me in his own party or not", "someone dared to not accept me to his party, ill slander him on forums". Of course i'm exaggerating right now, but it's seems like your type of attitude.


*snip*Because the people there are so rude. I am simply saying we as a server need to act better than that. We need to communicate and grow together because tomorrow you may only have new players left*snip*But to assume someone isn't good enough because you don't party with them everyday is a sure fire way to push people away from playing DDO.

Well, if you never even played chess but you played checkers a lot people might assume you cannot compete with Magnus Carlsen. But who knows, maybe at your first attempt to play chess you will win world championship. Of course there's a chance. But for everyone who play chess this chance is somewhere between "possibility of happening equal to 0" and "thats a prank, right?". What im trying to say: if instead of running LH/LN you're thinking "i'm too cool to join lower difficulty so i i'll join r1 and i don't care if they want me or not - well, i agree players attitude sometimes is wrong, but i suggest you thinking a bit if your own is flawless.

PS: in literally every game in the world players will experience exclusion. From time to time i play 24 years old RTS and i assure you - in majority of skirmishes they'll ban you from server without mercy if you'll not answer 10 min long survey about your skills (and i'm talking about really detailed questions that majority of players have no clue about). If you join pro game in any FPS you'll be slaughtered without mercy and banned from server, cause those players also want to have fun by competing with each other, not just grinding easy kills.

Quick summarise: if leader told you to fu** yourself and then he kicked you from party - yes, he's evil person. If he kicked you without any explanation or even simple "sorry, we need someone more experienced" - he's rude. But if he did none of such things and he just chose that he prefer someone more experienced in party running elitist content (r1 instead of lh like 90% of ghallanda players) - it's his right as a leader and in this situation there's (in my arrogant opinion) something wrong with you if now you're trying kick up a row on forum.

[Looting_Bin]

I assure you i've got "similar" stats + much, much more rxp and joining newest raid (the one i've never run before) on the highest difficulty (pugs are doing) is the last thing i would do. Like Torkzed said, there's plenty of LH dryad lfms every day to learn it without any preassure. If you see lfm for the highest difficulty (pugs are doing) then it's either:
- a mistake that soon after starting will become a disaster
- or lfm hosted by experienced players who might expect similar skills/knowledge
How many lifes you have is irrelevant. I play on ghallanda too and i know players who have 100+ pls, years of playing and they still have huge problems to run any ee quest alone. There's not many of them, but they're here. And it's not like amount of past lifes is waving like a flag above your head, not everybody have to know how long everyone play etc.

I see more and more arrogancy here and i sincerely don't like it. "i did 100 pls so noone will tell me what i can run and what i cant". "dps is simple role and everyone who thinks otherwise is stupid", "im dps so im allowed to have no clue what to do", "leader started playing after me, so he got no right to judge if he needs me in his own party or not", "someone dared to not accept me to his party, ill slander him on forums". Of course i'm exaggerating right now, but it's seems like your type of attitude.



Well, if you never even played chess but you played checkers a lot people might assume you cannot compete with Magnus Carlsen. But who knows, maybe at your first attempt to play chess you will win world championship. Of course there's a chance. But for everyone who play chess this chance is somewhere between "possibility of happening equal to 0" and "thats a prank, right?". What im trying to say: if instead of running LH/LN you're thinking "i'm too cool to join lower difficulty so i i'll join r1 and i don't care if they want me or not - well, i agree players attitude sometimes is wrong, but i suggest you thinking a bit if your own is flawless.

PS: in literally every game in the world players will experience exclusion. From time to time i play 24 years old RTS and i assure you - in majority of skirmishes they'll ban you from server without mercy if you'll not answer 10 min long survey about your skills (and i'm talking about really detailed questions that majority of players have no clue about). If you join pro game in any FPS you'll be slaughtered without mercy and banned from server, cause those players also want to have fun by competing with each other, not just grinding easy kills.

Quick summarise: if leader told you to fu** yourself and then he kicked you from party - yes, he's evil person. If he kicked you without any explanation or even simple "sorry, we need someone more experienced" - he's rude. But if he did none of such things and he just chose that he prefer someone more experienced in party running elitist content (r1 instead of lh like 90% of ghallanda players) - it's his right as a leader and in this situation there's (in my arrogant opinion) something wrong with you if now you're trying kick up a row on forum.


Did you not read the title... Is it your point to now try to slander me when I said I did not argue his decision? Maybe you failed to see what you are actually doing.

Ok so it was a raid and the. Leader didn't want some one new.... Ok as I have said I am not arguing that. I am arguing the attitude I received. My whole point of this thread was to get people to think about the way we treat people. Specially when they are being open and honest. It's not about my gear past lives and epic destinies that some one asked about. It's about where the server is headed when we treat people poorly.

Your insults to my character only prove what I have been saying. Did I name you? Did I say I deserve something better than respect as a person? The only goal I have is either a better server for all. Your attitude towards me for something that had nothing to do with you. What was the intention you had? To push another player away from playing with you? Look, you can either accept that people want to be treated with respect. Or, you can play with less and less people because they got tired of the disrespectful way they were treated.

We are not playing that FPS game most likely because all those jerks you talk about play it.

[Looting_Bin]

This is sad. Sorry to hear that you run into an idiot.

Good news that the "dance" part is pretty easy.

Special mechanic: Hyrsam occasionally plays a fairly lethal song, asking you to move as he plays. Watch out for DM text and arrows above your character's head and move accordingly: Strafe left, strafe right, run forward, run back. Your character does not actually have to move (you can bump into an obstacle, that's not a problem), and you can also turn around while doing the moves. If you fail to move as commanded, your character takes significant damage.

And for the record. Yes I was aware of this mechanic as I had seen multiple videos and jumped in solo to see how things worked.

Thank you for the explanation. It was refreshing to have someone teach to me with respect.

[Torkzed]

... The elitest pride they showed me is the same reason people don't want to play many end game raids. Because the people there are so rude...

The action isnt the issue the attitude is.


I find it hard to play when considering the lack of player base is coupled with the few remaining souls being rude.


You don't make your case stronger when you paint all G-Land raiders as elitist and rude. You encountered one person who was rude and you then say that "the people there [end game raids] are rude" and "the few remaining souls [are] rude"

I was genuinely sorry for you when I first read this and wished you had had a better experience. But when you insult everyone who raids, I am less sympathetic. Perhaps you should choose your words more carefully or consider your own attitude?

[Tsutti]

1. After i kicked someone from LN THTH when it was still a thing. I told 1st life player with lvl 0 ED (lvl 30 means he got enough xp to max at least 4 of them) to change ed to maxed one. He ignored my politely expressed order and after i kicked him he was surprised a lot cause i don't know his build, he dont need ed and then started calling me names.

PS: i don't know dryad, bought fey recently so once again i cant judge what dps do here, but dps in ddo is not always just staying in one place and doing nothing except swinging sword. If someone who don't know raid would be cheeky enough to tell me that there's nothing for him to learn cause he's dps so he can run like a headless chicken and just swing his sword - it's probably not the attitude i would like to see in my party.


I see more and more arrogancy here and i sincerely don't like it. "i did 100 pls so noone will tell me what i can run and what i cant". "dps is simple role and everyone who thinks otherwise is stupid", "im dps so im allowed to have no clue what to do", "leader started playing after me, so he got no right to judge if he needs me in his own party or not", "someone dared to not accept me to his party, ill slander him on forums". Of course i'm exaggerating right now, but it's seems like your type of attitude.

[if the leader] just chose that he prefer someone more experienced in party running elitist content (r1 instead of lh like 90% of ghallanda players)

If you read the OP's posts, you'll see that he did not in fact join on a dps and claim that he didn't need to know much about the raid. He said that the leader told him that he didn't feel like explaining it to a dps, implying that dps is an easily filled role but he might be willing to explain to a healer or tank because they are harder to find.

If you read the OP, you can see that the leader did not say anything about needing to know the raid in lfm, and asked the group if there was anyone new and told them there would be no judgement, both implying that he's fine having players new to the raid, but still kicked the OP who sounds like he demonstrated that he was more than willing to learn the raid.

edit: forgot to type the word 'more' lol

[Looting_Bin]

You don't make your case stronger when you paint all G-Land raiders as elitist and rude. You encountered one person who was rude and you then say that "the people there [end game raids] are rude" and "the few remaining souls [are] rude"

I was genuinely sorry for you when I first read this and wished you had had a better experience. But when you insult everyone who raids, I am less sympathetic. Perhaps you should choose your words more carefully or consider your own attitude?

So when I said "THEY" showed me, you took it as an insult to everyone? I am speaking from my perspective on the issues that I was seeing. Does that mean that since my experience is not the same as yours my point isn't valid? You insinuate that I was bashing a server when from the beginning all I asked was that we treat each other better than what I had been experiencing. Considering my recent interactions with players both in end game and early game was lacking the very things that make the game great (other players that work together to achieve goals). I didn't ask for sympathy. And as far as my attitude I don't hold myself so high as to imply I know everything about other people motives. Can my attitude be improved? Yes of course it can as I was addressing everyone when I said we need to do better (I don't exclude myself from this as it has made me look at myself and how I may be affecting other people as well).

Look, I am not trying to name bash anyone. I am only sharing my experience and what I think may HELP the server. You don't have to imply things I don't believe to be truths for everyone. You can even disagree and say that people should treat others in a different manner than what I am requesting. My words will not translate the importance or server health being the true issue if you see one thing taken out of context. So for that I am sorry I failed to communicate that I wanted a better experience for myself and everyone else.

[Looting_Bin]

If you read the OP's posts, you'll see that he did not in fact join on a dps and claim that he didn't need to know much about the raid. He said that the leader told him that he didn't feel like explaining it to a dps, implying that dps is an easily filled role but he might be willing to explain to a healer or tank because they are harder to find.

If you read the OP, you can see that the leader did not say anything about needing to know the raid in lfm, and asked the group if there was anyone new and told them there would be no judgement, both implying that he's fine having players new to the raid, but still kicked the OP who sounds like he demonstrated that he was than willing to learn the raid.


Lol thank you for understanding what I was saying.

[Qlivia]

I was there. you are a ranger right?

it was DnD raid on r1 with all optional

If I remember correctly,
leader : any first timer here?
you : yes
leader : r1 is not a good choice if you are first timer. do you know how to dance at least?
you : emote?
leader : maybe next time
boot!

I don't see any problem. actually, he's a decent leader on G-land. Server Attitudes?? lol. I think you are just angry. you think you are better player than others because "I started at head-start". how dare you boot me if I don't know this tiny little thing

someone who hasn't even tried hard is with me in the R1 raid group?? *facepalm* If I were the leader you would have been banned 100 times:p

grow up

[MacDubh]

I was there. you are ranger right?

it was DnD raid on r1.

If I remember correctly,
leader : any first timer here?
you : yes
leader : r1 is not good choice if you are first timer. do you know how to dance at least?
you : emote?
leader : maybe next time
boot!

I don't see any problem. actually he's decent leader on G-land. Server Attitudes?? lol. I think you are just angry. you think you are better player than others because "I started at head-start". how dare you boot me if I don't know this tiny little thing

someone who hasn't even tried hard is with me in the R1 raid group?? *facepalm* If I were the leader you would have been banned 100 times:p

grow up

If this is accurate then I withdraw my criticism of the raid leader. A bit of arrogance and lack of respect for others will always cause problems.

[Looting_Bin]

I was there before. you are ranger right?

it was DnD raid on r1.

If I remember correctly,
leader : any first timer here?
you : yes
leader : r1 is not good choice if you are first timer. do you know how to dance at least?
you : emote?
leader : maybe next time
boot!

I don't see any problem. actually he's decent leader on G-land. I think you are just angry. you think you are better player than others because "I am head-starter". how dare you boot me if I don't know this tiny little dance:cool:

someone who hasn't even tried hard is with me in the R1 raid group?? *facepalm* If I were the leader you would have been banned 100 times:p

grow up Mr. Head-starter.


Almost but you left out the key points that I stated like the "no judgment" and you embellished his statement where he said "you know how to dance?" and considering that I didn't know the context he was referring to I asked "like emote?" (He could have been asking anything as how to dance is a common term used to say knowledge of a particular skill) He then stated "R1 wasn't good" and boot. So when I messaged him asking if he was talking about the moving mechanic he said to me that he didn't care what I thought of him. I didn't even say anything implying I thought anything of him. And being a vet and mislead and treated as someone with no experience in how to play, yes that did make me upset but not angry.

You may be more confrontational than me but when someone tells me how I am not worthy based off a single question which was not even clear I think there is something wrong with them and stop talking to them. You can ban/squelch me as well I wont take any offence to you not liking that people want some common respect. I already said I didn't argue his decision and that was his to make. I AGAIN only ask that we don't treat people poorly. I don't need sympathy and I doubt you will even see me playing at this rate. My issue was the attitude and that isn't resolved with you stating things in part and out of order and polished up for your friend.

Do you take offense to me asking that we treat people better? The more I am attacked on asking something reasonable for everyone to consider the more I am convinced the server is dying. You have the choice to listen and learn as I have been trying for years or not care in the least that even older players are considering taking a break from the poor attitudes of others.

[Gniewomir]

Did you not read the title... Is it your point to now try to slander me when I said I did not argue his decision? Maybe you failed to see what you are actually doing.

Ok so it was a raid and the. Leader didn't want some one new.... Ok as I have said I am not arguing that. I am arguing the attitude I received. My whole point of this thread was to get people to think about the way we treat people. Specially when they are being open and honest. It's not about my gear past lives and epic destinies that some one asked about. It's about where the server is headed when we treat people poorly.

Your insults to my character only prove what I have been saying. Did I name you? Did I say I deserve something better than respect as a person? The only goal I have is either a better server for all. Your attitude towards me for something that had nothing to do with you. What was the intention you had? To push another player away from playing with you? Look, you can either accept that people want to be treated with respect. Or, you can play with less and less people because they got tired of the disrespectful way they were treated.

We are not playing that FPS game most likely because all those jerks you talk about play it.

I read the title but i also read what you actually wrote below this title and i see nothing wrong with the leader and i see nothing wrong about his attitude. Of course he might have acted like a di**, but i see nothing in this thread that proves he did anything more than being honest (and for many people in xxi century honesty means being rude). The fact that you say many things that shows arrogance is not helping to prove otherwise.

I saw no single word about him calling you a names, mocking you, insulting you. I see a leader who asked you about your experience, he evaluated your reply and decided he prefer someone with more experience with this raid. Since (like i already said twice) i dont know dryad, lets use THTH example. Imagine R1 thth and someone new. You have to explain how the raid works. When and what mobs kill (not kill wraths near each other etc). You have to explain how to fight boss (stick together for mass heals etc.). You have to talk about fire res, you have to wait for such player to bring fire absorption. You have to explain how mobs into lava mechanic works and why&which mobs kill if insta/cc will fail/die. If you want to give him additional information you have to explain how the puzzle work. You have to explain bottom puzzles, cause if 4 ppl are doing upper ones, healers are healing, cc is doing their duty, then only dps left to do bottom levers. They have to explain (to ranged dps) what are skulls, where to find them, when they spawn and why kill them asap. You have to explain how disabling traps affects overal walkthrough (when you do traps, cause even dps must be aware if you're doing traps and fighting big wraith, or maybe too low dps and you do it later). And since it's really difficult raid in general everyone have to do their best all the time, it's not like someone can hide in corner and just rush middle from time to time to dps boss then go back to corner and pike. All of this require time and (in THTH case) some item (fire absorption or sheeth) preparations which take additional time. So yeah, i can understand someone is not interested in spending 30 min under entrance, holding 10 other players just to explain raid for someone who (with correct attitude) should consider his duty to check out raid at lower difficulites first.

THis lfm was for elitist content (r1 newest raid, the highest difficulty pugs are doing right now), you're the one who chose to join elitist content you've never run before. I wholeheartedly belive that attitude works both ways and i wholeheartedly believe there's something wrong with attitude of the person who joins r+ raids (except old ones that one good player can solo anyway) without at least running it once before. There're at least 3-5 dryad LH lfms every day on ghallanda and i saw maybe... one r1 per week? Would it hurt your pride to learn the raid on lower difficulty? I really see nothing wrong about leader. You said no word about him insulting you, him kicking you without explanation (in fact he explained reasons why he prefer someone else). For clarification: yes, it's possible to kick someone in a rude way, but it's also possible to do it in polite way and i see nothing in this thread suggesting that he was really rude. Right now everyone in this thread focus on two facts: that someone kicked you and someone told you that he dont have time to explain r+ raid for someone who never run it before (but had dozen of opportunities to do it), but i dont see any data to prove that he was actually rude, i see someone being honest (which might not be enjoyable for someone, but it's like saying someone is shorter and someone is taller: there's difference between telling someone that he's short cause he's 150cm and someone mocking someone for being short. I see no evidence here that this leader was mocking you, being intentionally rude etc.).

And again you're showing nothing but arrogant attitude: all jerks play fps game, you're better cause you play rpg. Yawn. In hundreds of MMORPG games players will experience exclusion too. Best guilds (in competitive rpg games) will never accept someone new to their ranks. Even in ddo, on ghallanda, there were guilds that required you to prove your skills before accepting you to guild. What i disagree here with is you saying: players will leave ddo cause of such attitude while in literally every single multiplayer game there's a part of the game where new players will experience exclusion. It's not like "elitist attitude" is something players can experience only in ddo and i sincererly believe someone who do believe such things happening in game are a reason to stop playing should avoid playing multiplayer for their own sake. I could understand such statement if entire ddo population would hate all new players, but i would say (since average age in ddo is far above average in other mmo(rpg) games - in ddo jerks are smaller part of community than in majority of mmo rpgs where average player is below 16 yo.

PS: when exactly i insulted you? Please quote me, cause so far i havent even tried, what again might imply, that the leaders attitude we're talking about in this thread is more like a problem of your exaggeration/imagination than someone really being a di**.

[Gniewomir]

If you read the OP's posts, you'll see that he did not in fact join on a dps and claim that he didn't need to know much about the raid. He said that the leader told him that he didn't feel like explaining it to a dps, implying that dps is an easily filled role but he might be willing to explain to a healer or tank because they are harder to find.

If you read the OP, you can see that the leader did not say anything about needing to know the raid in lfm, and asked the group if there was anyone new and told them there would be no judgement, both implying that he's fine having players new to the raid, but still kicked the OP who sounds like he demonstrated that he was than willing to learn the raid.

Yeah, you're right, my fault, seems i didnt read carefully enough. I'll edit this post in a min or two after i reread everything to make sure im 100% accurate in my reply.

Quick fix: yes, seems it's my fault, i misunderstood thread a bit. Well, if leader said: no judgment will be made, i think indeed there's something a bit wrong with him if right after that he made judgement. But for the record - this is the only wrong thing in his attitude i see here. I still believe that there's nothing wrong in being picky for more difficult content if it's done politely (and without contradicting own statements).

But on the other hand i do believe more and more that OP is really arrogant type of player. Join r1 newest raid without even telling leader that he never run it before? Seriously, maybe there's something wrong with me, but i really cant imagine myself joining r1 raid i never run before without instantly sending a tell to leader that i never run it before. From the original post it seems OP had no intention to say anything ("(who hasn't jumped into raids to see the mechanics these days?)") and the only reason why he admitted it was the fact that leader directly asked about it. I sincererly hate players who join raids without any clue what to do, they cause mess, sometimes even wipe and waste of 10 other players time, and then they say something like: sry, i never run it before, didnt knew i shouldnt do this or that. In fact i can't imagine myself joining any raid, no matter r+ or LN without letting leader know before joining that it'll be my first time. It's not a shame to let team know you don't know something, but it's shame to not ask about advices etc and then cause chaos. So once again: not so black or white thing, i agree now that leaders attitude was incorrect but i also more and more see incorrectness in OP attitude.

[warrampart]

Ive ran dnd raid many times.......and still some times get stuck turned around and dance wrong and die,,it happens and also happens to others too.
...takes like 10 seconds to explain the dance move in there and even knowing it can still die lol. I wouldnt let it rent space in your head..G-land has alot good raid nights.I waz surprized to see ya got booted 4 that.

[Looting_Bin]

Ive ran dnd raid many times.......and still some times get stuck turned around and dance wrong and die,,it happens and also happens to others too.
...takes like 10 seconds to explain the dance move in there and even knowing it can still die lol. I wouldnt let it rent space in your head..G-land has alot good raid nights.I waz surprized to see ya got booted 4 that.

Thank you for saying so, I remember you messaging me in game surprised as I was from the way things were handled. Its fine I am grateful for players like your self and many others that do care.

Thats why I started this thread. To draw attention to the way we treat each other. Honestly the one person that handled things best was you. You saw something that did not seam on the level and immediately went to console and reassure that not everyone was lacking in wisdom.

I appreciate players like yourself.

[Looting_Bin]

Yeah, you're right, my fault, seems i didnt read carefully enough. I'll edit this post in a min or two after i reread everything to make sure im 100% accurate in my reply.

Quick fix: yes, seems it's my fault, i misunderstood thread a bit. Well, if leader said: no judgment will be made, i think indeed there's something a bit wrong with him if right after that he made judgement. But for the record - this is the only wrong thing in his attitude i see here. I still believe that there's nothing wrong in being picky for more difficult content if it's done politely (and without contradicting own statements).

But on the other hand i do believe more and more that OP is really arrogant type of player. Join r1 newest raid without even telling leader that he never run it before? Seriously, maybe there's something wrong with me, but i really cant imagine myself joining r1 raid i never run before without instantly sending a tell to leader that i never run it before. From the original post it seems OP had no intention to say anything ("(who hasn't jumped into raids to see the mechanics these days?)") and the only reason why he admitted it was the fact that leader directly asked about it. I sincererly hate players who join raids without any clue what to do, they cause mess, sometimes even wipe and waste of 10 other players time, and then they say something like: sry, i never run it before, didnt knew i shouldnt do this or that. In fact i can't imagine myself joining any raid, no matter r+ or LN without letting leader know before joining that it'll be my first time. It's not a shame to let team know you don't know something, but it's shame to not ask about advices etc and then cause chaos. So once again: not so black or white thing, i agree now that leaders attitude was incorrect but i also more and more see incorrectness in OP attitude.


Your right. I was arrogant, that's why I said I understood the decision to boot. I didn't claim that I deserved to be permitted in the raid only that I expected better treatment than what I actually received. I acknowledged that he was fair in his decision meaning my arrogance wasn't affecting the way I treated him. My arrogance was founded on many raids and years of experience. True I have my own character flaws which I hope don't hinder others from playing the game. But I work on that, I like to think you and I both do. You said you would run LN to learn a PUG raid where I learn from tutorials and videos and other sources in game. I am far from perfect and don't expect that on others.

But you acknowledge the one point I was trying to make. That we all need to work together and treat each other with respect. Hopefully you wont see me as someone arrogant player expecting more than what I am right now. Lets just all try to show common decency. And hopefully you will get past your hate of new players to a raid.

[Torkzed]

So when I said "THEY" showed me, you took it as an insult to everyone? I am speaking from my perspective on the issues that I was seeing. Does that mean that since my experience is not the same as yours my point isn't valid? You insinuate that I was bashing a server when from the beginning all I asked was that we treat each other better than what I had been experiencing. Considering my recent interactions with players both in end game and early game was lacking the very things that make the game great (other players that work together to achieve goals). I didn't ask for sympathy. And as far as my attitude I don't hold myself so high as to imply I know everything about other people motives. Can my attitude be improved? Yes of course it can as I was addressing everyone when I said we need to do better (I don't exclude myself from this as it has made me look at myself and how I may be affecting other people as well).

Look, I am not trying to name bash anyone. I am only sharing my experience and what I think may HELP the server. You don't have to imply things I don't believe to be truths for everyone. You can even disagree and say that people should treat others in a different manner than what I am requesting. My words will not translate the importance or server health being the true issue if you see one thing taken out of context. So for that I am sorry I failed to communicate that I wanted a better experience for myself and everyone else.

Check your words where I quoted you. You did indeed generally insult all players who raid, calling them all rude in two separate posts. I did not have any issues with your OP...I agree the raid leader you ran into handled it poorly. But your later posts were unfair to many nice people who raid at end game. Again, I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but you didn't have to insult everyone who raids because you ran into a rude person.

[Looting_Bin]

Check your words where I quoted you. You did indeed generally insult all players who raid, calling them all rude in two separate posts. I did not have any issues with your OP...I agree the raid leader you ran into handled it poorly. But your later posts were unfair to many nice people who raid at end game. Again, I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but you didn't have to insult everyone who raids because you ran into a rude person.


Maybe your right? That something I said COULD be taken as an insult to everyone when the only time I recall including everyone was when I said we need to ALL act better than that. I am sorry you think that was what I had said and don't see that post where I did. But it doesn't mean your view wrong if I don't clarify.

No I don't believe that everyone acts that way. I have played with many good players, elites and newbs. I have always been big on the PUG aspect as I am here for the interactions with others just as much as proving my skill and determination. I comment back to those that agree with the post that we need to treat each other back with positivity. I am not talking about elitest being some kind of bane on the game, as this was a pug. A group of players randomly picked up to raid on what has on this server, become the standard difficulty for most quest (R4 really for quest and R1 for most Raids). The elites of this server I appreciate as well as they can fill me with pride for my server when I play on hardcore with other servers. When I am with elites we run R10's with minimal to no deaths. But here and there I hear the same stories that I am sharing now where someone wasn't respectful for one reason or another.

Thank you for acknowledging my simple request to look at the way we treat each other though. It shows you read and at least understood what I wanted to relay to everyone. That we all need to act better for the sake of our own gaming as well as others. And I am sorry you thought I was insulting everyone in whichever way you thought I did.

[Torkzed]

Maybe your right? That something I said COULD be taken as an insult to everyone when the only time I recall including everyone was when I said we need to ALL act better than that. I am sorry you think that was what I had said and don't see that post where I did. But it doesn't mean your view wrong if I don't clarify.

No I don't believe that everyone acts that way. I have played with many good players, elites and newbs. I have always been big on the PUG aspect as I am here for the interactions with others just as much as proving my skill and determination. I comment back to those that agree with the post that we need to treat each other back with positivity. I am not talking about elitest being some kind of bane on the game, as this was a pug. A group of players randomly picked up to raid on what has on this server, become the standard difficulty for most quest (R4 really for quest and R1 for most Raids). The elites of this server I appreciate as well as they can fill me with pride for my server when I play on hardcore with other servers. When I am with elites we run R10's with minimal to no deaths. But here and there I hear the same stories that I am sharing now where someone wasn't respectful for one reason or another.

Thank you for acknowledging my simple request to look at the way we treat each other though. It shows you read and at least understood what I wanted to relay to everyone. That we all need to act better for the sake of our own gaming as well as others. And I am sorry you thought I was insulting everyone in whichever way you thought I did.

I do understand the point you were trying to make and it is a fair one. Everyone does need to act better towards other players. I know I am guilty of this as well at times although I try to always be polite to everyone.

However, if the above is supposed to be an apology, it is pretty weak. I literally quoted the places where you applied the word "rude" to everyone who raids (or perhaps just to everyone who raids on Ghallanda, given the post placement). If you can't or don't want to own that, then don't. "I don't recall saying anything bad and I don't know why you thought it was an insult, but I'm sorry you took it badly" is not really an apology.

[Tsutti]

So when I said "THEY" showed me, you took it as an insult to everyone?



The elitest pride they showed me is the same reason people don't want to play many end game raids. Because the people there are so rude.


I find it hard to play when considering the lack of player base is coupled with the few remaining souls being rude.

You don't make your case stronger when you paint all G-Land raiders as elitist and rude. You encountered one person who was rude and you then say that "the people there [end game raids] are rude" and "the few remaining souls [are] rude"

I was genuinely sorry for you when I first read this and wished you had had a better experience. But when you insult everyone who raids, I am less sympathetic. Perhaps you should choose your words more carefully or consider your own attitude?

Highlighted the parts Torkzed means for you, he made special note of them in his own post but I'll note them again. Your use of the word they implies nothing, it's the generalizations that "the people there" and the "few remaining souls" are rude which can be taken to mean everyone (which, the way these are phrased, it does mean).

[Looting_Bin]

I do understand the point you were trying to make and it is a fair one. Everyone does need to act better towards other players. I know I am guilty of this as well at times although I try to always be polite to everyone.

However, if the above is supposed to be an apology, it is pretty weak. I literally quoted the places where you applied the word "rude" to everyone who raids (or perhaps just to everyone who raids on Ghallanda, given the post placement). If you can't or don't want to own that, then don't. "I don't recall saying anything bad and I don't know why you thought it was an insult, but I'm sorry you took it badly" is not really an apology.

Then I will repost your quote of me since you didn't understand and still don't?

Quote Originally Posted by Looting_Bin View Post
... The elitest pride they showed me is the same reason people don't want to play many end game raids. Because the people there are so rude...

I spoke of the rudeness showed to me i.e. singular point of view I had experienced at that time (not the whole server). And expanded on a statement I have received from many players about the rudeness of others. This does not claim the server as a whole is rude. So with this quote you supplied is misinterpreted and then assumed something out of context. I can feel sorry you did not understand that, as it means in this some way I failed to inform you correctly. You thought I was insulting an entire server assuming everyone was rude. I just fail to see that from the quote you supplied.

your second quote of me was
"I find it hard to play when considering the lack of player base is coupled with the few remaining souls being rude."

This again is from a singular perspective I was experiencing over the course of two days. At no point in here did I state the server was all rude and no one was left good. So if you could fill me in on where I mistakenly said something that "generally says" as you put it. If I am incorrect I will apologize for that. If you don't understand what the context is in the format I presented then I will try to explain better. No it wasn't an apology as I don't know where I did this thing you say I did is.

But I love the fact you rehashed my point by saying "I do understand the point you were trying to make and it is a fair one. Everyone does need to act better towards other players. I know I am guilty of this as well at times although I try to always be polite to everyone." We are all guilty of this me included. You know how to generally treat people and want the same things I do. And this experience taught me I have to think more of how my interactions affect others. I now see what people had been telling me. I hadn't experienced it before and thought if I could share this learning with others on the server what could possibly be bad with that?

I cant explain everything to everyone in a way to be crystal clear for all. I want the forum to help us by sharing what I have learnt. Sure, some won't understand what I am saying and that's ok too. To be able to talk to you like this and share what I have to offer because when someone assumes something of you and is rude it ruins your game. I want to enjoy DDO and if I for a second thought that everyone was rude I would not have made a thread explaining how that affects people. What would be the point in that? If there was no hope for DDO G-Land, the title would have been "CYA G-land, I'm going to such and such server). But that is assuming the poor attitude I received wasn't so bad from my point of view that I just quite playing. I don't want that. And I don't want others to quit either.

[Looting_Bin]

Highlighted the parts Torkzed means for you, he made special note of them in his own post but I'll note them again. Your use of the word they implies nothing, it's the generalizations that "the people there" and the "few remaining souls" are rude which can be taken to mean everyone (which, the way these are phrased, it does mean).

Can be taken out of context yes. Considering that in both situations "ME or I" was used to explain "MY" experience from a singular point of view prior to the small snippet of part of a sentence. I didn't think to break apart my sentence and look at only a small part of it. Thank you for clarifying where he mistook what I had said.

[Torkzed]

Then I will repost your quote of me since you didn't understand and still don't?

Quote Originally Posted by Looting_Bin View Post
... The elitest pride they showed me is the same reason people don't want to play many end game raids. Because the people there are so rude...

I spoke of the rudeness showed to me i.e. singular point of view I had experienced at that time (not the whole server). And expanded on a statement I have received from many players about the rudeness of others. This does not claim the server as a whole is rude. So with this quote you supplied is misinterpreted and then assumed something out of context. I can feel sorry you did not understand that, as it means in this some way I failed to inform you correctly. You thought I was insulting an entire server assuming everyone was rude. I just fail to see that from the quote you supplied.

your second quote of me was
"I find it hard to play when considering the lack of player base is coupled with the few remaining souls being rude."

This again is from a singular perspective I was experiencing over the course of two days. At no point in here did I state the server was all rude and no one was left good. So if you could fill me in on where I mistakenly said something that "generally says" as you put it. If I am incorrect I will apologize for that. If you don't understand what the context is in the format I presented then I will try to explain better. No it wasn't an apology as I don't know where I did this thing you say I did is.

But I love the fact you rehashed my point by saying "I do understand the point you were trying to make and it is a fair one. Everyone does need to act better towards other players. I know I am guilty of this as well at times although I try to always be polite to everyone." We are all guilty of this me included. You know how to generally treat people and want the same things I do. And this experience taught me I have to think more of how my interactions affect others. I now see what people had been telling me. I hadn't experienced it before and thought if I could share this learning with others on the server what could possibly be bad with that?

I cant explain everything to everyone in a way to be crystal clear for all. I want the forum to help us by sharing what I have learnt. Sure, some won't understand what I am saying and that's ok too. To be able to talk to you like this and share what I have to offer because when someone assumes something of you and is rude it ruins your game. I want to enjoy DDO and if I for a second thought that everyone was rude I would not have made a thread explaining how that affects people. What would be the point in that? If there was no hope for DDO G-Land, the title would have been "CYA G-land, I'm going to such and such server). But that is assuming the poor attitude I received wasn't so bad from my point of view that I just quite playing. I don't want that. And I don't want others to quit either.

If the server were up, I'd be playing instead of arguing on the forums. But, it is raining outside and servers are down, so I guess I will break down the first quote for you.

Here is your quote: "The elitest pride they showed me is the same reason people don't want to play many end game raids. Because the people there are so rude..."

Lets look at the second sentence. "The people ... are so rude." Which people? Clearly it is the people "there". But where is "there"?

Ah... the answer is in first sentence. "there" refers to "end game raids".

The logical implication is that you are calling the people in end game raids rude...

I, and many of my in-game friends, play end game raids. Hence, you were (likely unintentionally) calling me and my friends rude. Believe me, some of them are rude, at times. :)

(But I know it was not me or my friends in your particular case, because we don't do R1 Dryad often and when we do, it is unlikely we would fill out the group with a player we don't know. It is not because we are elitist, but rather because we are not a guild made up entirely of "uber" players. We rely upon good planning and communication when we push a raid beyond our normal comfort level. When we run LH, we would take just about anyone and we would not expect them to know the raid.)

But even the rudest of my guild (not saying my guild mates are rude, exactly...but the exceptions know who they are!) would not have done what made you mad. We are pretty careful to be nice to anyone who joins our raids unless they are seen to do something intentionally detrimental to the raid after being told not to do that thing.

You ran into a bad apple and then later generalized their behavior to everyone at end game. That is what has set me off...

[Torkzed]

Can be taken out of context yes. Considering that in both situations "ME or I" was used to explain "MY" experience from a singular point of view prior to the small snippet of part of a sentence. I didn't think to break apart my sentence and look at only a small part of it. Thank you for clarifying where he mistook what I had said.

I didn't mistake what you said. You chose the words. Perhaps they did not properly convey what you meant.

[Cordovan]

The conversation in this thread looks to have lived through any productive purpose and is now getting too mired in blame and arguing. Thread closed.