D&D stuff we are still waiting on

[fatherpirate]

Here is some of the D&D stuff that has not made it in game (yet).
This list does not include dungeons...that is it's own list.

Classes

Shaman - similar to Fav Soul but druidic list
Samurai - monk variant
Psion - Psionic class

Races

too many to list
but Kobold for sure

Scroll writing

Wand Crafting

Potion Brewing

Weapons-
Spear
Flail
Chain weapons
Polearms
Katana

Character Alignment
Evil

Now most of this stuff will never see the light of day but it is all
part of D&D

but it would be nice to see some of this end up in game.
and yes there are a zillion things various players want 'fixed' first
and there are a lot of threads in the forums for that already.

[droid327]

Here is some of the D&D stuff that has not made it in game (yet).
This list does not include dungeons...that is it's own list.

Classes

Shaman - similar to Fav Soul but druidic list
Samurai - monk variant
Psion - Psionic class



Define some rolespace for what you want each of those to be in terms of actual gameplay, and make sure its both viable and distinct enough from existing playstyles.

I'm not sure Druid has enough useful spells to warrant a standalone caster class, for example. Druid was designed as a hybrid class, like Arti.

Monk variant is a possible rolespace, but you'd need to better define how it should be distinct from both existing Monks and existing Fighters, and what parts of Monk it would replicate.

Psion I've always kinda thought has no real space in DDO. We've already adopted the spellpoint system for all casters, which is essentially what set psions apart from spells/rest casters. Unless you just want to make them a standalone Force-based casting class...but even then, that'd start to overlap a lot with Feydark.




Races

too many to list
but Kobold for sure




Kobold of course is a long-standing request and one I'm sure the devs will attend to eventually (the consensus expectation is the iconic Sorc). Other races, again - define what they're going to do that makes them different. Look at Shifter - that release has been largely panned, because Shifters dont really do anything well that's worth actually doing in the game.




Scroll writing

Wand Crafting

Potion Brewing



No point to this. If a scroll or wand isnt available, its because the devs want it that way for balance reasons. Letting us craft, ie, scrolls/wands for DD or FoM or Deathward or Deadly Weapons etc. would just trivialize being able to cast those spells, and make it pointless to ever actually slot them, or use items like Eternal Pots. It'd also create a situation where everyone would be de facto forced to carry a golf bag full of various buff scrolls from every class, and again, make actual buff builds redundant.





Weapons-
Spear
Flail
Chain weapons
Polearms
Katana




New weapons classes are a hard task because you have to introduce so many of them at once to make them viable. You need to have several options across all level ranges or else no one's going to be able to build a character to use them.

I expect we'll see things continue to be introduced as variations on existing base weapons. There are Spears in game, they're just classed as Quarterstaves. But they have their own unique crit profile, they do Piercing damage, etc. Likewise, katana are just longswords, and a flail could easily be a morningstar.




Character Alignment
Evil



No. I never saw the point of having this "just because". We're the good guys, and that's fine. If you want a light side/dark side MMORPG, there are plenty out there.

Evil alignments is just opening the door to justifying antisocial player behavior with the mantle of "role playing"

[rabidfox]

Character Alignment
Evil

Now most of this stuff will never see the light of day but it is all
part of D&D
It's been said that evil alignment won't happen because it would effect the game's PEGI/ESRB age ratings; so you're totally right that it'll never hit the light of day for that.

[fatherpirate]

to be clear

Druid is a BASE class not a hybrid.

Everything on that list is from official sources ...
NONE of it is new. I don't need to justify any of it.
It is in D&D like I stated in the OP.

DDO is NOT cannon.
D&D, AD&D Edition 1 thru 5e PnP IS CANNON

I was just stating things that are officially in D&D and not
in DDO that would be nice to see added. I understand that
some or none of it may or may not be added.

[Nugaot]

Evil alignments is just opening the door to justifying antisocial player behavior with the mantle of "role playing"

I see this argument made every time the suggestion of evil alignment comes up and it just does not make sense to me. Antisocial, unpleasant players do exist in game already, although thankfully few and far between. Changing one letter on their character sheet from CN to CE wouldn’t change that. (and to be honest, Chaotic Neutral is one of the worst alignments to DM for). We also can play as Warlocks and make a pact with some type of demon or devil in exchange for power, worship the Silver Flame, who has led violent crusades against lycanthropes and those “suspected” of lycanthropy, including Shifters. We can also murder dozens of innocent people in their church on the order of a disguised Rakshasa, and many other morally dubious things across a number of quests I can’t recall from the top of my head. The world of Eberron is steeped in moral complexity and shades of grey. An evil character could have just as much motive to cooperate with others to stop whatever bad guy of the week wants to end the world or take over the city as any good or neutral one. One of my favourite examples of an evil character who works with the rest of the good/neutral party is Belkar Bitterleaf from Order of the Stick. And who hasn’t wanted to shout out “I AM A SEXY, SHOELESS GOD OF WAR!” after a particularly tough fight?

As for D&D stuff that’s not in-game I’d like to second Kobold as a race of course. Also Kalashtar, Changelings, and Warforged scouts, or another WF subrace. I like warforged but I don’t always like playing as a big bulky robot. More options to distinguish two characters of the same class from one another, like cleric domains and warlock pacts but expanded out to other classes. I’ve seen Lynnabel talk about bard colleges before, I’d enjoy seeing druid circles and monastic traditions and others too.

[arminius]

It's been said that evil alignment won't happen because it would effect the game's PEGI/ESRB age ratings; so you're totally right that it'll never hit the light of day for that.

And it's not like it has any real in game impact anyway. For example, there isn't a player in the game that hasn't at some point been a willing accomplice to wholesale murder at the Midler Farmhouse, for a lousy, but quick, 20,000 xp. Or dev either, from what i've seen from the weekly YouTube casts.

There's nothing most people wouldn't do in game for a bunch of threads, or schism shards. Well, nothing I wouldn't do, anyway, and I primarily play Paladins. If the game allowed us to do the most extreme thing available in a hypothetical XXX version of Grand Theft Auto, we'd do it for threads, schism shards, and otto's boxes, and not even think twice.

So yeah, whether you call it Evil or not is pretty much beside the point.

[Chai]

No point to this. If a scroll or wand isnt available, its because the devs want it that way for balance reasons. Letting us craft, ie, scrolls/wands for DD or FoM or Deathward or Deadly Weapons etc. would just trivialize being able to cast those spells, and make it pointless to ever actually slot them, or use items like Eternal Pots. It'd also create a situation where everyone would be de facto forced to carry a golf bag full of various buff scrolls from every class, and again, make actual buff builds redundant.


More like it would trivialize their ability to sell that stuff to us in the store, which they already do for some of the items they keep high numbers out of the game "for balance reasons."

I'm all for low magic campaigns, but DDO jumped that shark pretty quickly. Buff builds were made redundant already. This was a valid position before they already made clickies for every buff we could want, sold limitless scrolls for the ones there arent clickies for etc...

There are a FEW exceptions. Very few, and these get eroded as time passes.




Evil alignments is just opening the door to justifying antisocial player behavior with the mantle of "role playing"

This is a myth. No alignment field on a character sheet in DDO caused a player to act right/not act right. They do this by choice, regardless.

[Oxarhamar]

to be clear

Druid is a BASE class not a hybrid.

Everything on that list is from official sources ...
NONE of it is new. I don't need to justify any of it.
It is in D&D like I stated in the OP.

DDO is NOT cannon.
D&D, AD&D Edition 1 thru 5e PnP IS CANNON

I was just stating things that are officially in D&D and not
in DDO that would be nice to see added. I understand that
some or none of it may or may not be added.

Incorrect

DDO is as cannon as any other DND video game

DDO is not PnP it is a DnD based MMO

DDO started as Stormreach which is Cannon

WoTC imposed limits on fast travel is cannon

every class and race is cannon

Etc...

DDO is official D&D licensed & is cannon https://dnd.wizards.com/products/digital-games/pcmac/dungeons-dragons-online

Classic packs like Haunted Halls & ToEE cannon

[Silverleafeon]

Here is some of the D&D stuff that has not made it in game (yet).

Weapons-
Flail
.

Before any Dev spends precious time on the Flail I highly recommend they watch videos by Shadiversity:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox4sCJnCpzo
on Overappreciated Historical Weapons: the medieval FLAIL

and particularly read one of the comments underneath it as quoted:

"When I was in high school, my buddies and I made a flail by ramming long nails through a good sized ball, filling the ball with wet concrete and suspending a chain into it. We later attached the chain through a bolt in a length of doweling rod.

The thing was terrifying! We swung it around a few times... once, we spun it through a few rotations and through it at a piece of wood and the "spiked ball" just sunk right it and stuck. We didn't fool around it very much once we made it... we all had too much self preservation."


And also on the same subject

Overappreciated Historical Weapons: NUNCHUCKS are STUPID!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUWoUM4Wttc

Yes, Nunchucks are STILL STUPID, responding to the critics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqpa2Rw0qug

and even a third video on the subject that I have not watched yet:

I was WRONG about the NUNCHAKU. . . or was I? - Reply to Milani Fitness
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc9LHDohjB0

Including a comment below this video:

"Shad: "Nunchucks are garbage."
Me: Immediately starts digging through my garbage to find something that would make a better weapon just to prove Shad wrong."



In fact, people might enjoy the youtube channel in general, as it goes into great detail about medieval weapons and tactics.

[ShifterThePirate]

Isn't Samurai a Fighter class in DND?

And I prefer Goblin race over Kobold... But than again there are so many more fun races!


Before any Dev spends precious time on the Flail I highly recommend they watch videos by Shadiversity:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox4sCJnCpzo
on Overappreciated Historical Weapons: the medieval FLAIL

and particularly read one of the comments underneath it as quoted:

"When I was in high school, my buddies and I made a flail by ramming long nails through a good sized ball, filling the ball with wet concrete and suspending a chain into it. We later attached the chain through a bolt in a length of doweling rod.

The thing was terrifying! We swung it around a few times... once, we spun it through a few rotations and through it at a piece of wood and the "spiked ball" just sunk right it and stuck. We didn't fool around it very much once we made it... we all had too much self preservation."


And also on the same subject

Overappreciated Historical Weapons: NUNCHUCKS are STUPID!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUWoUM4Wttc

Yes, Nunchucks are STILL STUPID, responding to the critics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqpa2Rw0qug

and even a third video on the subject that I have not watched yet.


In fact, people might enjoy the youtube channel in general, as it goes into great detail about medivel weapons and tactics.

You can add Katana to the overappreciated weapon list too :rolleyes:

[Nugaot]

Isn't Samurai a Fighter class in DND?

And I prefer Goblin race over Kobold... But than again there are so many more fun races!



You can add Katana to the overappreciated weapon list too :rolleyes:

And if we’re being honest, mauls, greataxes, warhammers, throwing weapons, and yes, swords.. But if you mix too much historical accuracy into your fantasy setting you end up losing a lot of what makes the genre iconic. I’d rather play Dungeons and Dragons, not Sharpened Sticks and Dysentery.

[Chai]

DDO is official D&D licensed & is cannon

So Greyhawk is right through a door from Korthos in Eberron? I could list countless other examples, but anyone objective reading gets the point.


DDO is not PnP

Apply this to any and all discussion and nothing new ever happens. Often used and irrelevant blanket excuse to talk past points made.

[Chai]

And if we’re being honest, mauls, greataxes, warhammers, throwing weapons, and yes, swords.. But if you mix too much historical accuracy into your fantasy setting you end up losing a lot of what makes the genre iconic. I’d rather play Dungeons and Dragons, not Sharpened Sticks and Dysentery.

Desert Caravan quest should kill a random player character from Dysentery and report it using a black and green screen. I feel there was a missed opportunity here. :p

[Silverleafeon]

Isn't Samurai a Fighter class in DND?

And I prefer Goblin race over Kobold... But than again there are so many more fun races!



You can add Katana to the overappreciated weapon list too :rolleyes:

+1

We will never ever run out of D&D races to add to the game, even if the game lasts centuries.

Samurai = Fighter plus role-playing and thematic armor skins
Katana type swords = Falchion and Scimitar with a less wide profile
If there is a demand, put out a cosmetic pack and see if it sells.

[Silverleafeon]

Weapons-
Chain weapons

We have this in the Shadowfell Iconic:
Whirling Chain as a special attack.

[Oxarhamar]

Apply this to any and all discussion and nothing new ever happens. Often used and irrelevant blanket excuse to talk past points made.

Incorrect Chai


The point being made is that DDO is not cannon because, it is not PnP when it is infact Cannon what it is not is PnP

It is officially licensed & cannon as any other DND based video game

[rabidfox]

And it's not like it has any real in game impact anyway. For example, there isn't a player in the game that hasn't at some point been a willing accomplice to wholesale murder at the Midler Farmhouse, for a lousy, but quick, 20,000 xp. Or dev either, from what i've seen from the weekly YouTube casts.

There's nothing most people wouldn't do in game for a bunch of threads, or schism shards. Well, nothing I wouldn't do, anyway, and I primarily play Paladins. If the game allowed us to do the most extreme thing available in a hypothetical XXX version of Grand Theft Auto, we'd do it for threads, schism shards, and otto's boxes, and not even think twice.

So yeah, whether you call it Evil or not is pretty much beside the point.
Yeah, it may make no difference from what a player would do, but it ultimately does a make a difference in how those game rating boards treat things when one is allowed to play a character that's "evil" in name. It was mentioned in one of the streams not too long ago that keeping the PEGI 12/ESRB Teen/USK 12 ratings was the big reason we wouldn't see evil alignment as a selectable option. A lot of things rating boards do to determine age brackets seem silly to me, but they have their criteria for stuff and that's just the way things are. When it comes down to it, role-players can just ignore their selected alignment and SSG can keep the option not available so they keep the game marketed at the same age brackets.

[Silverleafeon]

Here is some of the D&D stuff that has not made it in game (yet).
This list does not include dungeons...that is it's own list.

Scroll writing

Wand Crafting

Potion Brewing



We have spellbook inscribing.
Access to the Rare spell list is unlikely via craft your own scrolls past the vendor list.

We have most of the legal potions.
There is a 3rd Edition rule that limits the spell levels of potions to level three spells, which is why we don't have Potion of Cure Critical Wounds.

[Silverleafeon]

Here is some of the D&D stuff that has not made it in game (yet).
This list does not include dungeons...that is it's own list.

Classes

Psion - Psionic class
.

Would like to see a full Psiconic Expansion someday if the Devs create a purple bar, balance the classes and make it fun to play.

[Nugaot]

Yeah, it may make no difference from what a player would do, but it ultimately does a make a difference in how those game rating boards treat things when one is allowed to play a character that's "evil" in name. It was mentioned in one of the streams not too long ago that keeping the PEGI 12/ESRB Teen/USK 12 ratings was the big reason we wouldn't see evil alignment as a selectable option. A lot of things rating boards do to determine age brackets seem silly to me, but they have their criteria for stuff and that's just the way things are. When it comes down to it, role-players can just ignore their selected alignment and SSG can keep the option not available so they keep the game marketed at the same age brackets.

Not that I’m doubting you, but that seems like an strange line of reasoning. Neverwinter Nights 1&2 had PEGI 12/ESRB Teen ratings as well and you could play any alignment in those games.

[Silverleafeon]

Here is some of the D&D stuff that has not made it in game (yet).
This list does not include dungeons...that is it's own list.


Weapons-

Polearms
.

This has a lot of potentials and I would like to see Polearms added to the game someday.
After all, if we can rework all the bow animation, then the artists could create polearm animation, although it will be a lot of work.

[rabidfox]

Not that I’m doubting you, but that seems like an strange line of reasoning. Neverwinter Nights 1&2 had PEGI 12/ESRB Teen ratings as well and you could play any alignment in those games.

I have zero clue about all the details or logic. It was just one of those thing mentioned in passing to a question in one of the Cord streams (or could've been one of the Sev Q&A streams but I think it was just a Cord one) over past couple months. It stuck in my head but other than that I know nothing beyond that brief mention of why no evil option.

[Silverleafeon]

Here is some of the D&D stuff that has not made it in game (yet).
This list does not include dungeons...that is it's own list.

Classes

Shaman - similar to Fav Soul but druidic list


This might could be an independent tree or added to the many, many, many possible classes available to add to the game.

The main problem with adding new classes to the game (besides balance) is "how do you make the new class distinctly different from existing classes?"
Pass that test before moving into theory crafting.

[Silverleafeon]

One of the huge advantages of a game based upon D&D is the amount of lore available to draw from.

/thanks for the list

[AbyssalMage]

Now most of this stuff will never see the light of day but it is all
part of D&D
Is it part of 3.5 Eberron though?

Psionics was touched on back in 2011 in that the Spell Point system kinda mimics 3.5 psionics. It would be really difficult to differentiate the two according to the developers at the time. Maybe a universal tree(s) where you get (unique) SLA's that aren't effected by a beholders cone of anti-magic would be the closes they could come to 3.5 psionic? (just "spitballing" here).

Kobald would be awesome but the current crop of developers continue to fail in rendering computer models. It usually takes them about a year of patches to get it correct. I just don't think they are up to the task. Or have the backing, commitment and resources from management.

So yeah, I personally fall in the "focus on fixing everything them and their predecessors broke."

[Memnir]

Flumphs.

[Silverleafeon]

Here is some of the D&D stuff that has not made it in-game (yet).
This list does not include dungeons...that is it's own list.

Character Alignment
Evil
.


I ask myself if Dr. Doom or Thanos or Tiamat the dragon wrote up their character sheet, what would they write in the alignment slot?
After all, the creating of a character-sheet is one's self-image, not a judgment by others.


Watching the movie Avenger Infinity War, Thanos felt justified for his actions.
One must realize that he is from a race/planet that did not age, had conquered diseases, had worldwide political peace, had a body highly resistant to accidental death, had military superiority to nearby planets, and an average birthrate (unlike long-lived elves). So in creating his own character sheet, I know he would not describe himself as evil, as seen in the long explanations. (Not looking from other points of view, just his own.)


Dr. Doom, although a Villian of the Fantastic Four, is beloved as a leader of his own country.
There was a very insightful article in an early Dragon Magazine titled "For God and County", which detailed that alignment is not always the defining plot of a D&D campaign.
I know that Dr. Doom would not write Evil on his own character sheet (his own perspective not others).


Tiamat the Dragon is not human, therefore I might have trouble thinking as a dragon would, I might have to translate Tiamat's character sheet from Draconic and people could doubt my translations, so I'll stop there.


Evil is a subjective word, which is why it might not be used in legal documents.
Its definitions can wildly vary which makes the word potentially dangerous to use in DDO.

[Arkat]

Would like to see a full Psiconic Expansion someday if the Devs create a purple bar, balance the classes and make it fun to play.

Yes.

Psion, Psychic Warrior, Soulknife, the various Kineticists, and the Wild Mage all appeal to me to varying degrees.

Would LOVE to see a large Psionics expansion!



BTW Oxarhamar, it's "canon," not "cannon."

A cannon is something with which you shoot large metal projectiles (with the aid of black powder).

[LittleLexi]

Define some rolespace for what you want each of those to be in terms of actual gameplay, and make sure its both viable and distinct enough from existing playstyles.

I'm not sure Druid has enough useful spells to warrant a standalone caster class, for example. Druid was designed as a hybrid class, like Arti.


A Shaman class would primarily be WIS based. It would share many of the same spells as Druids. It would have a few unique properties in the form of totems that can be placed strategically around the battlefield. It would have access to blessings or chants to buff themselves and allies, as well as curses - to debuff opponents. It would contain:

A melee focused tree that imbues the spirit of a beast/elemental on to the weapon; thereby applying extra effects to it i.e adding magma surge, corrosive salt, vampirism, cursespewing and so on. Obviously wooden and bone-carved weapons would have their own shillelagh type enhancement as well.

A caster focused tree that casts powerful spells by combining elements(similar to alchemist) and foretelling an enemy's demise through casting spells in a certain order to produce specific ominous effects. Spells cast near totems gain new properties like increased DC's, damage or effects i.e an Acid Rain that also heals allies.

A summons/totem tree that amplifies spirits and emblems to be even more powerful; culminating in a powerful tier 5 unique living totem that is extremely dangerous and projects an aura of inspiration to friends, but dread to foes.

Of course the update will include reworked hireling/pet ai, as well as a much needed buff to summons. One can dream, no?

[LurkingVeteran]

DDO is not complete until I can roll an evil Wizard that can build a heavily fortified hide-out in a private dimension, can scry his enemies from afar and teleport end-boss level demons on them. Like in P&P.

Stormreach will tremble.

Also, I want a Dominate Monster that literally lasts for days as it's supposed to.

Jokes aside, there are a ton of fun utility spells (not just passive +X buffs) that they could have implemented. Abilities in general that improve gameplay. It was nice of them to add a couple of new arcane SL9 spells a year or two ago, but I think we have gotten like 10 new spells in 10 years or so (not counting Alchemist as it's a new class). Just buffing the persistent damage spells to reasonable levels compared to the new spell dice would help. Give us a glorious Wall of Fire (although tbh the other specs need more buffs atm).

On the melee side, TWF in general are really short on useful active abilities. Especially AoE clears (given how AoE-focused the game is now due to everybody running the difficulties with max mob scaling).

[Silverleafeon]

Of course the update will include reworked hireling/pet, as well as a much needed buff to summons. One can dream, no?

After Sev's Build a Hire pack which would include revamped summons, hires, and companions, he desired a summoning class so this should go on the pile of potentials (likely would be more popular than my candidate (the healer from the minature's handbook).

[Silverleafeon]

Is it part of 3.5 Eberron though?

Psionics was touched on back in 2011 in that the Spell Point system kinda mimics 3.5 psionics.

I think you pinpoint a lot of the problems.

An expansion is needed to introduce Psionics, including a long plotline introduction/discovery/new continent.
I suggest introducing Sarlona.

We cannot base Psionics off of our blue bars, because that is simply the spell points system we already have.
We need a purple bar. (Or Orange/Green as the primary colors are taken).

We need a new system for said purple bar.



So yeah, I personally fall in the "focus on fixing everything them and their predecessors broke."

Balance in developing is good.

New content for cash.
Fixes for retention.
One feeds the other.

[droid327]

to be clear

Druid is a BASE class not a hybrid.



Yes. Its a hybrid class. Its caster/melee.

[Silverleafeon]

Yes. Its a hybrid class. Its caster/melee.

Aye.

I think the word being looked for is Core Class (found in a Core Set of rules)?

Pretty sure Shaman was feature heavily in 4th Ed. although I don't recall which book.

If not Core then the word looked for is Offical Class (found in a book by WotC labeled D&D), which as I already mentioned Shaman is.

I have heard at least one developer name off a ton of reference books available (either from personal collections or a stockpile sitting at Standing Stones), so the Devs do have access to a lot of material. I also recall WotC providing some materials as well.

[Chai]

Incorrect Chai


The point being made is that DDO is not cannon because, it is not PnP when it is infact Cannon what it is not is PnP

It is officially licensed & cannon as any other DND based video game

Nope. Officially licensed =/= Canon.

If your declaration were true, then the answer to my questions in the previous post would be YES - and they are obviously not.

https://martech.zone/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/you-keep-using-that-word.jpg

[Nugaot]

This (http://keith-baker.com/eberron-continued-what-is-canon/) is an article from Keith Baker, the creator of the world of Eberron, on canon in regards to DDO, and other official material.

[Oxarhamar]

Nope. Officially licensed =/= Canon.

If your declaration were true, then the answer to my questions in the previous post would be YES - and they are obviously not.

https://martech.zone/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/you-keep-using-that-word.jpg

Elminster disagrees with you

https://www.ddo.com/en/ddo-interview-ed-greenwood

Better check that math again ??

Answer =\= YES & YES not necessary for truth.

[Logicman69]

I would love the idea of a samurai tree for monks. I invision this being similar in function to the EK tree for wizards. Adding swords as ki weapons, some interesting damage attacks, but the real kicker would be up in T4, giving the samurai the ability to wear light or medium armor and remain centered. Throw in some extra boosts in HP, some AC boosts, and crit chance and damage boosts and you would have an interesting tree that would be useful without being OP. Though if you REALLY want to make this spicy, you can have the capstone give the ability to have evasion in Medium Armor. I think that would push that into the OP range though.

[Ausdoerrt]

Meh, kobolds. How about more actual Eberron races, instead. Starting with Kalashtar / Changeling, but also goblinoids, gnolls, orcs (who aren't 'monster races' in Eberron).

Samurai is a fighter subclass in 5e.

Psionics would probably be an unnecessary extra layer in DDO. And yes, I think there are ways to make Kalashtar fun without psionics.

[arminius]

Meh, kobolds. How about more actual Eberron races, instead. Starting with Kalashtar / Changeling, but also goblinoids, gnolls, orcs (who aren't 'monster races' in Eberron).

Samurai is a fighter subclass in 5e.

Psionics would probably be an unnecessary extra layer in DDO. And yes, I think there are ways to make Kalashtar fun without psionics.

Good point about Psionics, if the devs are already paring back effects because so many effects are bogging down the game performance, they are unlikely to develop a whole new class of effects to layer on top, at least without some radical change to the engine or other things that are equally unlikely

[Nugaot]

Elminster disagrees with you

https://www.ddo.com/en/ddo-interview-ed-greenwood

Better check that math again ??

Answer =\= YES & YES not necessary for truth.

I don’t know what you think Ed said that supports yours or any one else’s points raised in this thread.

[Oxarhamar]

I don’t know what you think Ed said that supports yours or any one else’s points raised in this thread.

Here’s another angle


As mentioned a while back, the events of Fire on Thunder Peak and Temple of the Deathwyrm serve as a prequel to Tyranny of Dragons; the events in those raids led to changes in the Cult of the Dragon, which ultimately lead to the upcoming events in the pen-and-paper Tyranny of Dragons!

https://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/tyranny-dragons

[Nugaot]

Here’s another angle



https://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/tyranny-dragons

Whatever your point is, you are talking past it. I have both of these books on my shelf right now. It's been a while since I've run the Thunder Peaks raid but besides having some of the same factions present there is little bearing on the story on the PnP adventure if any at all in DDO. Just from taking a quick skim over the first couple chapters of each book, DDO is not mentioned even once, nor any of the characters in the FotP or TotDW raids. Horde of the Dragon Queen and Rise of Tiamat take place primarily around the Sword Coast, in fact, where DDO dares not tread.

I'm left to conclude that, generally speaking, what is canon to a setting in the source books is canon to DDO, but DDO is no more canon to Eberron, FR, Greyhawk, or any other settings they might choose to depict later on, than your own home games of D&D are.

[Oxarhamar]

Whatever your point is, you are talking past it. I have both of these books on my shelf right now. It's been a while since I've run the Thunder Peaks raid but besides having some of the same factions present there is little bearing on the story on the PnP adventure if any at all in DDO. Just from taking a quick skim over the first couple chapters of each book, DDO is not mentioned even once, nor any of the characters in the FotP or TotDW raids. Horde of the Dragon Queen and Rise of Tiamat take place primarily around the Sword Coast, in fact, where DDO dares not tread.

I'm left to conclude that, generally speaking, what is canon to a setting in the source books is canon to DDO, but DDO is no more canon to Eberron, FR, Greyhawk, or any other settings they might choose to depict later on, than your own home games of D&D are.

DDO & the prequel storyline was mentioned on the Wizards of the Coast site but, that link no longer works it’s on the DDO wiki

[Nugaot]

DDO & the prequel storyline was mentioned on the Wizards of the Coast site but, that link no longer works it’s on the DDO wiki

So a throwaway line on a depreciated webpage promoting a licensed tie-in game and a then recently released book makes everything in DDO immutable canon?

[Oxarhamar]

So a throwaway line on a depreciated webpage promoting a licensed tie-in game and a then recently released book makes everything in DDO immutable canon?

The article about Eberron Canon is quite clear on this

[Nugaot]

The article about Eberron Canon is quite clear on this

I agree. You, however, are not.

[Oxarhamar]

I agree. You, however, are not.

It’s been linked already no need to repeated it if you agree thanks

[LightBear]

So a throwaway line on a depreciated webpage promoting a licensed tie-in game and a then recently released book makes everything in DDO immutable canon?

Well, yeah because the creators of the sources say so.

Even the live video-casts from Acquisitions Incorporated are now considered canon.

And for "Immutable", so far things never really add up across all genres of lore in the DnD Universe anyway.

[Nugaot]

Well, yeah because the creators of the sources say so.

Even the live video-casts from Acquisitions Incorporated are now considered canon.

And for "Immutable", so far things never really add up across all genres of lore in the DnD Universe anyway.

Do they, though? It was never put to paper in the actual published book. The webpage that claimed the raids in DDO were a prequel to the Tyranny of Dragons storyline no longer exists. Aurgloroasa and the other dragons from FoTP aren’t mentioned at all in either book to my knowledge. They are purely an invention of DDO’s. Without having played DDO, and those specific raids, there would be no way to know about any of those dragons playing through the adventures.

[Oxarhamar]

Do they, though? It was never put to paper in the actual published book. The webpage that claimed the raids in DDO were a prequel to the Tyranny of Dragons storyline no longer exists. Aurgloroasa and the other dragons from FoTP aren’t mentioned at all in either book to my knowledge. They are purely an invention of DDO’s. Without having played DDO, and those specific raids, there would be no way to know about any of those dragons playing through the adventures.

https://dnd.wizards.com/dungeons-and-dragons/story/tyrannyofdragons

Snip~
“For years, the evil Cult of the Dragon has devoted itself to creating undead dragons in a vain attempt to fulfill an ancient prophecy. However, the cultists were misguided. They misunderstood. But now, under new leadership, the cult believes that the prophecy does not speak of undead dragons, but of a dragon empire that’s been extinct for 25,000 years. Tiamat, the queen of evil dragons, has languished in the Nine Hells for millennia. The cult believes that the time of her return is at hand.”

This is Deathwyrm ^^

See “Jerry’s comments here

http://www.gamergeoff.com/was-tiamat-supposed-to-be-in-ddo/


Also see https://ddowiki.com/page/The_Mask_of_Deception also ties into Cult of the dragon

[Artos_Fabril]

So a throwaway line on a depreciated webpage promoting a licensed tie-in game and a then recently released book makes everything in DDO immutable canon?This is a weird assertion even as a strawman. Rule 0 and the nature of RPGs (TT or MMO) mean that no canon is immutable. At any point any DM, including an official WotC DM, can decide this or that piece of lore was wrongly reported by an unreliable source, or an unreliable narrator. In D&D it's also internally consistent to say "A wizard did it". Change the timeline with a wish, or deific intervention. Or split any branch of continuity away from canon or canonize any fan work.

People will forgive a lot for a good story, or happily ignore official canon if they don't like the story it tells.

[Nugaot]

This is a weird assertion even as a strawman. Rule 0 and the nature of RPGs (TT or MMO) mean that no canon is immutable. At any point any DM, including an official WotC DM, can decide this or that piece of lore was wrongly reported by an unreliable source, or an unreliable narrator. In D&D it's also internally consistent to say "A wizard did it". Change the timeline with a wish, or deific intervention. Or split any branch of continuity away from canon or canonize any fan work.

People will forgive a lot for a good story, or happily ignore official canon if they don't like the story it tells.

Absolutely, yeah. Whether or not DDO is canon I still like it and enjoy the stories in game. But nothing in DDO has held any bearing on how any setting has been depicted in source books. Aurgloroasa, the Rift Between Worlds, the Stormreaver, none of it has ever been nor will ever be mentioned in any WotC published material. If DDO were to go to Cyre or Breland, it would be based off of established lore and the writer’s own creativity. Any adventures that take place would not effect future Eberron books that WotC might publish.

[Oxarhamar]

Absolutely, yeah. Whether or not DDO is canon I still like it and enjoy the stories in game. But nothing in DDO has held any bearing on how any setting has been depicted in source books. Aurgloroasa, the Rift Between Worlds, the Stormreaver, none of it has ever been nor will ever be mentioned in any WotC published material. If DDO were to go to Cyre or Breland, it would be based off of established lore and the writer’s own creativity. Any adventures that take place would not effect future Eberron books that WotC might publish.

Too late already mentioned in source books

[Nugaot]

Too late already mentioned in source books

Where? What book? Which page?

[Oxarhamar]

Where? What book? Which page?

Already provided

[Oxarhamar]

This is a weird assertion even as a strawman. Rule 0 and the nature of RPGs (TT or MMO) mean that no canon is immutable. At any point any DM, including an official WotC DM, can decide this or that piece of lore was wrongly reported by an unreliable source, or an unreliable narrator. In D&D it's also internally consistent to say "A wizard did it". Change the timeline with a wish, or deific intervention. Or split any branch of continuity away from canon or canonize any fan work.

People will forgive a lot for a good story, or happily ignore official canon if they don't like the story it tells.

As is intended

[Nugaot]

Already provided

Websites are not books.

[Oxarhamar]

Websites are not books.

Yet Forgotten Realms wiki found the information

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Tyranny_of_Dragons


Tyranny of Dragons monsters & spells were released in Free PDF on website not in print to cut down on costs.

[Nugaot]

Yet Forgotten Realms wiki found the information

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Tyranny_of_Dragons


Tyranny of Dragons monsters & spells were released in Free PDF on website not in print to cut down on costs.

Fan wikis are notoriously poor sources of accurate information. Also, not a book. Also, doesn’t even mention DDO but does talk about Neverwinter Online.

[Oxarhamar]

Websites are not books.

Yet Forgotten Realms wiki found the information

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Tyranny_of_Dragons

& this reviewer also found the storyline connection but, disliked the change

https://www.5mwd.com/archives/2890

[Oxarhamar]

Where? What book? Which page?

Hoard of the Dragon Queen page 6 YW

[PsychoBlonde]

Shaman - similar to Fav Soul but druidic list
Samurai - monk variant
Psion - Psionic class

I'll take the psion, but we've got Kensai on Fighter and that's close enough to Samurai (although I wouldn't mind if Kensai was split into Weapon Master on fighter and the monk-type stuff got moved to a new universal tree called Kensai). And Shaman is a pretty boring class even in pnp.


Scroll writing

Wand Crafting

Potion Brewing

Don't know why you'd bother with these when you can just buy literally infinite numbers of scrolls, wands, and potions for platinum.


Weapons-
Spear
Flail
Chain weapons
Polearms
Katana

Personally, I want them to do a weapons squish so we have fewer weapon types that are all mechanically distinct (and actually have endgame weapon support and variety). Maybe then some kind of polearm/spear and some kind of chain weapon, but adding new weapons is apparently really expensive time-wise.


Character Alignment
Evil

The devs have literally said this will never happen.

[Nugaot]

Yet Forgotten Realms wiki found the information

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Tyranny_of_Dragons

& this reviewer also found the storyline connection but, disliked the change

https://www.5mwd.com/archives/2890

That’s the same page you just linked. Are you even reading these? Fan reviewers are not source books. HotDQ doesn’t mention DDO on page 6 or anywhere else, just that the cult of the dragon used to raise undead dragons.

e: The fan review you linked doesn’t mention DDO either! Just the link between the two published Tyranny of Dragons adventures, Horde of the Dragon Queen and Rise of Tiamat.

[Oxarhamar]

Personally, I want them to do a weapons squish so we have fewer weapon types that are all mechanically distinct (and actually have endgame weapon support and variety). Maybe then some kind of polearm/spear and some kind of chain weapon, but adding new weapons is apparently really expensive time-wise.



We already have weapons that don’t really have too much usefulness Heavy Picks for example & the nerfed Repeater

[Oxarhamar]

That’s the same page you just linked. Are you even reading these? Fan reviewers are not source books. HotDQ doesn’t mention DDO on page 6 or anywhere else, just that the cult of the dragon used to raise undead dragons.

That’s right they are fan pages and they have gathered the information from the Source books YW

[Nugaot]

That’s right they are fan pages and they have gathered the information from the Source books YW

If that information is in a source book, you can provide it directly.

[Oxarhamar]

If that information is in a source book, you can provide it directly.

Already did

[Nugaot]

Already did

The page you provided does not mention the events of DDO. I am looking at it right now with a physical book in my hands. You are wrong.

[Oxarhamar]

The page you provided does not mention the events of DDO. I am looking at it right now with a physical book in my hands. You are wrong.

Absolutely does I’m also looking at it

[Nugaot]

Absolutely does I’m also looking at it

What line, specifically, do you think proves your point? Please quote it directly.

[Oxarhamar]

What line, specifically, do you think proves your point? Please quote it directly.

You have the book look for yourself it’s there

Tyranny of Dragons storyline from DDO to PnP back in to Neverwinter its too bad DDO got the prequels & teasers instead of the main campaign.

[Nugaot]

You have the book look for yourself it’s there

No it isn’t. You’re free to provide a direct quote from the book that says otherwise should one exist.

[Oxarhamar]

No it isn’t. You’re free to provide a direct quote from the book that says otherwise should one exist.

It’s there & it’s been referenced in multiple articles written by fans they are finding that information same place I am in the source book


The storyline goes from DDO to PnP back in to Neverwinter its too bad DDO got the prequels & teasers instead of the main campaign.

[Nugaot]

It’s there & it’s been referenced in multiple articles written by fans they are finding that information same place I am in the source book


The storyline goes from DDO to PnP back in to Neverwinter its too bad DDO got the prequels & teasers instead of the main campaign.

What happens in the raids has no bearing on the events in the PnP adventure. You could easily prove me wrong with a direct quote from the book, but there is no such quote, so you can't.

[Oxarhamar]

What happens in the raids has no bearing on the events in the PnP adventure. You could easily prove me wrong with a direct quote from the book, but there is no such quote, so you can't.

No longer worshiping the Deathwyrm leads the cult to Tiamat.

already been pointed out you multiple times.

[Nugaot]

No longer worshiping the Deathwyrm leads the cult to Tiamat.

already been pointed out you multiple times.

That does not make the events of DDO canon to the adventure.

[Oxarhamar]

That does not make the events of DDO canon to the adventure.

At least you finally admitted that it is there

& yes the events in DDO are the backstory to Tyranny of Dragons that is Canon

& DDO is Canon regardless of this confirmation.

DDO is not PnP DDO is DnD.

[Nugaot]

At least you finally admitted that it is there

& yes the events in DDO are the backstory to Tyranny of Dragons that is Canon

& DDO is Canon regardless of this confirmation.

DDO is not PnP DDO is DnD.

Actually, "Deathwyrm" is not mentioned in the text. Here is a quote:

The Cult of the Dragon has been active in Faerun for centuries. It has focused on making undead dragons to fulfill a prophecy most of that time, but that's changing.
That's it, no mention of deathwyrms, augrloroasa, or anything else that happens in DDO. The events of DDO are based on what is canon, not the other way around. Nothing that happens in DDO will ever have any bearing on published material.

[Oxarhamar]

Actually, "Deathwyrm" is not mentioned in the text. Here is a quote:

That's it, no mention of deathwyrms, augrloroasa, or anything else that happens in DDO. The events of DDO are based on what is canon, not the other way around. Nothing that happens in DDO will ever have any bearing on published material.

Thanks for confirming that it there

good on you

Here’s more


Any news about the Thunderholme storyline yet ? Especially Tiamat.

Any chance that it will be continued ? Or is that now just a relic of the past, never to be introduced ?

Tyranny of Dragons (Lore)

For years, the evil Cult of the Dragon has devoted itself to creating undead dragons in a vain attempt to fulfill an ancient prophecy. However, the cultists were misguided. They misunderstood. But now, under new leadership, the cult believes that the prophecy does not speak of undead dragons, but of a dragon empire that’s been extinct for 25,000 years. Tiamat, the queen of evil dragons, has languished in the Nine Hells for millennia. The cult believes that the time of her return is at hand.
The cult has a new face and a new mission. It seeks to free Tiamat from the Nine Hells and bring her into the Forgotten Realms.
Tyranny of Dragons is a D&D event celebrating the 40th anniversary of D&D organized by Wizards of the Coast for the summer of 2014.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelstar

Source :

(...) the events of Fire on Thunder Peak and Temple of the Deathwyrm serve as a prequel to Tyranny of Dragons; the events in those raids led to changes in the Cult of the Dragon, which ultimately lead to the upcoming events in the pen-and-paper Tyranny of Dragons!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rb7nLoCTnl0

Deathwyrm & Firepeak were part of that broader DND anniversary event that spread across the DND multiverse

We already have 3 Devs confirmation of this linked

[Nugaot]

Thanks for confirming that it there

good on you

Here’s more

The people who make this game can say that it's a prequel all they want, it has no bearing on the published book whatsoever.

[Oxarhamar]

The people who make this game can say that it's a prequel all they want, it has no bearing on the published book whatsoever.

Except that it was planned as a prequel as part of the event by WoTC

The published book confirms & continued the storyline that started in DDO

[Nugaot]

Except that it was planned as a prequel as part of the event by WoTC

The published book confirms & continued the storyline that started in DDO

The published book barely gives a tip of the hat to the events in DDO. The cult used to be all about undead dragons, now they’re into Tiamat. That’s it, there are no other references.

[Oxarhamar]

The published book barely gives a tip of the hat to the events in DDO. The cult used to be all about undead dragons, now they’re into Tiamat. That’s it, there are no other references.

There is that reference

thanks for that

Also this statement here is about the other end of the crossover

https://www.gamewatcher.com/news/2014-20-05-neverwinter-s-next-module-tyranny-of-dragons-to-launch-august-14

Snip ~
Nathan Stewart, Dungeons & Dragons Brand Director. “The new Tyranny of Dragons module is just the beginning of us bringing our new serialized entertainment to the fans of both tabletop and digital games.”

[Nugaot]

There is that reference

thanks for that

Also this statement here is about the other end of the crossover

https://www.gamewatcher.com/news/2014-20-05-neverwinter-s-next-module-tyranny-of-dragons-to-launch-august-14

Snip ~
Nathan Stewart, Dungeons & Dragons Brand Director. “The new Tyranny of Dragons module is just the beginning of us bringing our new serialized entertainment to the fans of both tabletop and digital games.”

That statement is clearly in reference to Neverwinter, not DDO.

Let's try a thought exercise: Imagine the events of DDO did not happen. There is no Thunderholme, and no Augrloroasa. Instead the old cult leader was eaten by a zombie dragon named Dogfart. Does anything in Tyranny of Dragons change? The same story beats are there: the cult used to raise undead dragons, and there is a new leader now.

[Oxarhamar]

That statement is clearly in reference to Neverwinter, not DDO.

Let's try a thought exercise: Imagine the events of DDO did not happen. There is no Thunderholme, and no Augrloroasa. Instead the old cult leader was eaten by a zombie dragon named Dogfart. Does anything in Tyranny of Dragons change? The same story beats are there: the cult used to raise undead dragons, and there is a new leader now.

Now you want to imaginary situations you can imagine what ever you like but, then you aren’t the DM in DDO the DM determines what is Canon in their game just ask the creator of Ebberon.

Or listed to Elminster again he speaks of Canon that was cut from the source books due to page number restrictions & doesn’t differentiate between DND & DDO it’s just DND when he speaks.


Of course it is referred to Neverwinter however DDO was still on the prequel end of that same crossover & it does say “digital games” not game

[Nugaot]

Now you want to imaginary situations you can imagine what ever you like but, then you aren’t the DM in DDO the DM determines what is Canon in their game just ask the creator of Ebberon.

Of course it is referred to Neverwinter however DDO was still on the prequel end of that same crossover.

Then we basically understand each other. My game of HotDQ and yours could be completely different from one another and neither would be canon to any future WotC projects. Similarly if you were to think of DDO as a D&D campaign it too would be it's own thing and not a part of the larger canon.

E: also Ed was talking about restrictions placed on him by TSR back in the day when he was working on the original Haunted Halls. I'm still unsure what point you were trying to make by linking that interview.

[Oxarhamar]

Then we basically understand each other. My game of HotDQ and yours could be completely different from one another and neither would be canon to any future WotC projects. Similarly if you were to think of DDO as a D&D campaign it too would be it's own thing and not a part of the larger canon.

E: also Ed was talking about restrictions placed on him by TSR back in the day when he was working on the original Haunted Halls. I'm still unsure what point you were trying to make by linking that interview.

You have to listen to the whole video which loads up after the brief one or the commentary in HHoE he explains how he created the settings and speaks of DDO as DND as an extension of the game not of something separate.

DDO is Canon both in DDO & in the larger universe just like the rest of the DND games are canon DDO also crosses over in this storyline as part of the larger DND Canon.

What is and isn’t Canon will differ depending upon DM but also setting, Dragonlance for example was heavy in Canon in the novels and the game adventures followed along the same stories.

Haveing played Dragonlance & read many of the novels Tyranny of Dragons feels more like a knock off War of the Lance than anything else.

[The_Human_Cypher]

I'm more interested in bringing classic monsters and classic modules to DDO than adding more classes or features. There is still a long list of both of the aforementioned to which time and resources can be committed.

[fatherpirate]

A few side notes

When I say cannon in reference to D&D stuff, I mean official material
from or approved by the current IP holder.

evil

Should be in the game for several reasons.
By shutting out evil a lot of stuff no longer makes sense.

There should be ZERO - LG, CG, NG Pale Masters
but since there is no evil alignment, that would only
leave LN, N, CN and they likely figured it would
be too limited.

Various dark paths offered in enhancement tree should be
restricted to non-good alignments.
As well as a few should exclude evil

By excluding evil, you end up with a broken partial alignment
system in a game originally created to use all alignments.

or in other words, if you can be a LG Pale Master, there is absolutely no reason
why you should not be able to have a CG or NG Pally.

If your using an alignment system, use it or don't ...
don't use part of it.

as for the classes I would like to see, that is just my personal choice,
to each their own.

Some folks were skeptical about bringing in new classes.
They are 'not needed'.

Well of course they are not needed.
There are only 4 classes in the whole game that are needed.
Fighter, Cleric, Mage, Rogue. ALL the rest are not needed.
So why do we have more than 4 ?
BECAUSE IT IS FUN !

It is fun to be different.

So the more classes the better 'with proper balancing'

ok, chow folks

(I know 'completionist' break out in a rash at the mention of another class, lol zero sympathy)

[ShifterThePirate]

No offense, but what are you trying to get out of an "evil" alignment ingame? This game isn't build to play an evil character so you'd only get disappointed 'roleplay' because you can't kill everyone you want to. DDO is trying to maintain a healthy online MMO. Evil minded players who ruin the game experience for others are not welcome. No one wants someone who is trying to kill other players while doing quests and raids. No one wants someone who annoyingly tries everything to stop quests from being able to get finished. No one wants a player harassing other players because he is an 'evil' character. There is a reason why many DM's also ban the Evil alignment for players from their p&p campaign. Because it's about having fun! And a player who is against the players is not fun. So please enlighten me why DDO should have a handicapped form of an Evil alignment?

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

I see this argument made every time the suggestion of evil alignment comes up and it just does not make sense to me. Antisocial, unpleasant players do exist in game already, although thankfully few and far between.

They exist much more in factions of games in which one can play an evil faction.

Evil seems to be considered much more "manly" in the eyes of especially immature players.





Which is, by the way, one of the reasons why I love playing DDo : It has no factions !!!!!


And, by the way, "evil" is not a thing in Eberron, that has a sharp distinction, especially when even Fred does good deeds ...





By excluding evil, you end up with a broken partial alignment
system in a game originally created to use all alignments.v

From a pen & paper role playing point of view, this is correct, but you should also consider its playability - within an MMORPG.

Evil aligned characters would rather support the ba necromancer instead of weakening him.
Or, they would rather kill his place and ressurrect him as an undead minion under the player character's control.

I think you should read some of the Eberron novels, if you hadn't done so already. Especially "Queen Of Szone", for example, or the "Inquisitives" series.
You'll get a better feeling for how Eberron "works", with that.

Especially the fact that "monsters" are there as normal (yet rare) citizens within Stormreach is very telling about "how Eberron works".



And, as a side-note, just read my current signature. ;)

[Oxarhamar]

A few side notes

When I say cannon in reference to D&D stuff, I mean official material
from or approved by the current IP holder.

evil

Should be in the game for several reasons.
By shutting out evil a lot of stuff no longer makes sense.

There should be ZERO - LG, CG, NG Pale Masters
but since there is no evil alignment, that would only
leave LN, N, CN and they likely figured it would
be too limited.

Various dark paths offered in enhancement tree should be
restricted to non-good alignments.
As well as a few should exclude evil

By excluding evil, you end up with a broken partial alignment
system in a game originally created to use all alignments.

or in other words, if you can be a LG Pale Master, there is absolutely no reason
why you should not be able to have a CG or NG Pally.

If your using an alignment system, use it or don't ...
don't use part of it.

as for the classes I would like to see, that is just my personal choice,
to each their own.

Some folks were skeptical about bringing in new classes.
They are 'not needed'.

Well of course they are not needed.
There are only 4 classes in the whole game that are needed.
Fighter, Cleric, Mage, Rogue. ALL the rest are not needed.
So why do we have more than 4 ?
BECAUSE IT IS FUN !

It is fun to be different.

So the more classes the better 'with proper balancing'

ok, chow folks

(I know 'completionist' break out in a rash at the mention of another class, lol zero sympathy)

So when you say DND Canon you are speaking about DDO as DDO officially licensed by the current IP holder and each expansion & coming mini expansion is approved by such.

Completionists I run with don’t break out in a rash over new classes that’s just more game to play it takes less than a weekend to get the feat back try speak for yourself instead of guessing.

If Evil alignment were to come it would have its restrictions but, I could not care less about playing evil alignment doesn’t really effect much in game besides the few restrictions. Now if the game had a reputation system where actions could change your alignment then it would make much more sense to have evil then good or evil would have their own benefit & penalties as well as neutral then players would have to play the alignment they wanted to be instead of just checking a box.

[fatherpirate]

Nobody seems to be able to read between the lines, ok a more direct comment.

>>>Since DDO will never use the whole alignment spectrum, alignments
should be removed from the game.<<<

Does NWO have alignments? - no
wow - no
Eve - no
most other mmo's - no

Alignment is/was a gateway tool in PnP to limit access
to certain skills and abilities, but if DDO is going to cherry pick
only parts of the system it would be far better just to remove it.

SSG should also remove alignment based weapons - evil weapons on the drop table are useless.
as are Law and chaos.

Holy weapons are ok because they damage everything, but the holy effect
should only add damage to evil stuff ... but SSG cherry picks the rules it likes to follow.

Just remove alignments - they are more trouble than they are worth.

[Oxarhamar]

Nobody seems to be able to read between the lines, ok a more direct comment.

>>>Since DDO will never use the whole alignment spectrum, alignments
should be removed from the game.<<<

Does NWO have alignments? - no
wow - no
Eve - no
most other mmo's - no

Alignment is/was a gateway tool in PnP to limit access
to certain skills and abilities, but if DDO is going to cherry pick
only parts of the system it would be far better just to remove it.

SSG should also remove alignment based weapons - evil weapons on the drop table are useless.
as are Law and chaos.

Holy weapons are ok because they damage everything, but the holy effect
should only add damage to evil stuff ... but SSG cherry picks the rules it likes to follow.

Just remove alignments - they are more trouble than they are worth.


Alignments have their purpose just because, you don’t get Evil & you want Evil doesn’t mean that alignments should be removed.

WOW has alignments it’s called Alliance & Horde & this is not WOW

[SoVeryBelgian]

too many to list
but Kobold for sure



Kobbie Iconic Sorc is all I want

Doooo eeet

[Chai]

Elminster disagrees with you

https://www.ddo.com/en/ddo-interview-ed-greenwood

Better check that math again ??

Answer =\= YES & YES not necessary for truth.

Licensed =/= Canon. Examples (which you and no one else has an answer to) include:
Most/all of the things in DDO which link the specific worlds are made up specifically for the video game and are not part of the Canon for universe(s) depicted.

Unless you can show me in the lore (not in the video game) where it states you talk to an NPC in Korthos to get to Greyhawk.

Of course Haunted Halls is Canon in FR. No one questions that. Wheres the Canon lore that (again, not the video game lore, but the actual D&D lore) which shows how to get to FR through a hole in a wall in Stormreach in Eberron. AKA linking the two universes.

That word, it definitely does not mean, what you think it means. Observe:


So when you say DND Canon you are speaking about DDO as DDO officially licensed by the current IP holder and each expansion & coming mini expansion is approved by such.

Both DDO and NWO have Ravenloft, and there are some conflicting details between the two. By your logic licensed IP = canon, but this can't possibly be the case since there are lore conflicts between the two.

Therefore licensed IP =/= canon.

Rules lawyering: You're a player on the team? Pleased to meet you. I'm the coach. :p

[Chai]

Alignments have their purpose just because, you don’t get Evil & you want Evil doesn’t mean that alignments should be removed.

WOW has alignments it’s called Alliance & Horde & this is not WOW

Factions =/= alignments.

The idea that being able to select "evil" on a character sheet means people will use it to justify poor behavior is a myth. Those players who choose to behave poorly in a video game universe already do so even on their lawful good paladins of the spaghetti lord in the sky. They aren't lying in wait twirling their moustaches hoping for evil alignment to come to DDO so they can finally begin to behave poorly toward their fellow gamers.

[Oxarhamar]

Licensed =/= Canon. Examples (which you and no one else has an answer to) include:
Most/all of the things in DDO which link the specific worlds are made up specifically for the video game and are not part of the Canon for universe(s) depicted.

Unless you can show me in the lore (not in the video game) where it states you talk to an NPC in Korthos to get to Greyhawk.

Of course Haunted Halls is Canon in FR. No one questions that. Wheres the Canon lore that (again, not the video game lore, but the actual D&D lore) which shows how to get to FR through a hole in a wall in Stormreach in Eberron. AKA linking the two universes.

That word, it definitely does not mean, what you think it means. Observe:

The Canon DnD Lore you are searching for is in DDO

Both DDO and NWO have Ravenloft, and there are some conflicting details between the two. By your logic licensed IP = canon, but this can't possibly be the case since there are lore conflicts between the two.

Therefore licensed IP =/= canon.

Rules lawyering: You're a player on the team? Pleased to meet you. I'm the coach. :p


That logic is yourn



There’s lots of conflicting between Canon in different games & editions, even within different source books same editions as stated by the creator of Eberron



DDO = Canon
DDO =/= PnP
DDO = DnD

a sanctioned or accepted group or body of related works

Dungeons & Dragons Online® interactive video game (c) 2017 Standing Stone Games LLC. All other elements (c) 2017 HASBRO, Inc. Standing Stone Games and the Standing Stone Games logo are trademarks or registered trademarks of Standing Stone Games LLC. Dungeons & Dragons Online and Wizards of the Coast and their respective logos are trademarks of Wizards of the Coast LLC and are used with permission. HASBRO and its logo are trademarks of HASBRO, Inc. and are used with permission

[Oxarhamar]

Factions =/= alignments.

The idea that being able to select "evil" on a character sheet means people will use it to justify poor behavior is a myth. Those players who choose to behave poorly in a video game universe already do so even on their lawful good paladins of the spaghetti lord in the sky. They aren't lying in wait twirling their moustaches hoping for evil alignment to come to DDO so they can finally begin to behave poorly toward their fellow gamers.

Factions =/= Alignments HOWEVER Factions do have alignments

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Alignment

[Chai]

That logic is yourn

There’s lots of conflicting between Canon in different games & editions, even within different source books same editions as stated by the creator of Eberron


Nope. Its either canon or its not. If a conflict is found it is due to the fact that something was iterated which is NOT canon - aka NOT part of the official lore for the universe.

[Chai]

Factions =/= Alignments HOWEVER Factions do have alignments

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Alignment

Not set in stone. Anyone who plays the game and/or read the books, watched the movie etc...has observed this.

[Oxarhamar]

Nope. Its either canon or its not. If a conflict is found it is due to the fact that something was iterated which is NOT canon - aka NOT part of the official lore for the universe.

Incorrect as per the creator of Eberron’s statement on Canon which was posted earlier in this thread there are conflicts within different source books for Eberron.

[Oxarhamar]

Not set in stone. Anyone who plays the game and/or read the books, watched the movie etc...has observed this.

& yet there are alignments in WoW which was the point & again this ain’t WoW

[Chai]

Incorrect as per the creator of Eberron’s statement on Canon which was posted earlier in this thread there are conflicts within different source books for Eberron.

Theres one canon timeline for the universe. Contradictions are not canon. Your example does not prove anything because as stated before, no one is challenging HHoE is canon to Eveningstar. What is non canon to the universe is the methods of traveling between Eberron and FR, stated now 4x and glossed over now 4x due to having no answer for it. This is why DDO has to follow what WOTC allows on the subject, as they have to use a non canon method of travel to link the two in a video game.

[Oxarhamar]

Theres one canon timeline for the universe. Contradictions are not canon. Your example does not prove anything because as stated before, no one is challenging HHoE is canon to Eveningstar. What is non canon to the universe is the methods of traveling between Eberron and FR, stated now 4x and glossed over now 4x due to having no answer for it. This is why DDO has to follow what WOTC allows on the subject, as they have to use a non canon method of travel to link the two in a video game.

Contradictions exist in the Sourcebooks

My definition of Canon aligned with the Creator’s which has been linked previously

DDO has to follow what WoTC allow because of the Canon that’s why the restricted use of key comes from.

Has not been glossed over has already been answered.

[Chai]

Contradictions exist in the Sourcebooks

Citations? Lets get specific with these claims here.


My definition of Canon aligned with the Creator’s which has been linked previously

No one from D&D is responsible for the word "canon" - so no dice here.


DDO has to follow what WoTC allow because of the Canon that’s why the restricted use of key comes from.

Nope. 5th time glossing over the examples I gave. They need to follow canon on what is licensed. What is NOT canon is where they need WOTC guidance, such as (once again the example you have zero answer for) the methods of travel between the universes which do not exist in actual canon.


Has not been glossed over has already been answered.

Incorrect.

[Oxarhamar]

Citations? Lets get specific with these claims here.



No one from D&D is responsible for the word "canon" - so no dice here.



Nope. 5th time glossing over the examples I gave. They need to follow canon on what is licensed. What is NOT canon is where they need WOTC guidance, such as (once again the example you have zero answer for) the methods of travel between the universes which do not exist in actual canon.



Incorrect.

You are asking for citations for things that have been posted in this very thread already just as you have asked for answered questions

Indeed those at D&D are responsible for what’s Canon in D&D.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2014/5/26/5751480/dungeons-and-dragons-new-logo-for-5th-edition


https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Dungeons_%26_Dragons_Online

[fatherpirate]

My idea of D&D cannon material is very strict "my personal opinion"
If it is not in a D&D published rule book or
other official PnP game material "like an official dungeon or campaign box set"
it is not cannon 'for GAMING purposes'.

I don't count books, articles, movies, and computer games
as cannon for GAME purposes.
This is strictly a personal choice.

There is a ton of non-cannon stuff in DDO but I don't own the game
so that is that.

[Oxarhamar]

My idea of D&D cannon material is very strict "my personal opinion"
If it is not in a D&D published rule book or
other official PnP game material "like an official dungeon or campaign box set"
it is not cannon 'for GAMING purposes'.

I don't count books, articles, movies, and computer games
as cannon for GAME purposes.
This is strictly a personal choice.

There is a ton of non-cannon stuff in DDO but I don't own the game
so that is that.

Personal opinion on Canon does not dictate what is Canon but at least you can admit that it was just personal opinion

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

I'm still waiting for a pirate outfit that really looks better than the female Swashbuckler outfit from the DDO store ... I mean, something like the female Iconic Tiefling's outfit, but that for *all* female character models !

[Aelonwy]

I'm still waiting for a pirate outfit that really looks better than the female Swashbuckler outfit from the DDO store ... I mean, something like the female Iconic Tiefling's outfit, but that for *all* female character models !

https://i.imgur.com/wDXzInY.jpg

I know its not the same Alrik, and I'm right there with you waiting for an all-race female swash cosmetic. This is the closest I've come, its the Mist Laden Vestment.

[PurpleSerpent]

I’d rather play Dungeons and Dragons, not Sharpened Sticks and Dysentery.

The Oregon Trail: Middle Ages Edition.

[Cordovan]

No further discussion on the argument over what is canon vs. what is D&D in this thread, please, as it is clearly causing problems.

[Justicesfury]

Here is some of the D&D stuff that has not made it in game (yet).
This list does not include dungeons...that is it's own list.

Classes

Shaman - similar to Fav Soul but druidic list
Samurai - monk variant
Psion - Psionic class

Races

too many to list
but Kobold for sure

Scroll writing

Wand Crafting

Potion Brewing

Weapons-
Spear
Flail
Chain weapons
Polearms
Katana

Character Alignment
Evil

Now most of this stuff will never see the light of day but it is all
part of D&D

but it would be nice to see some of this end up in game.
and yes there are a zillion things various players want 'fixed' first
and there are a lot of threads in the forums for that already.

Who is WE?

I am not waiting for this stuff.

Spear fighting would be a nightmare on graphics. There are already swords that look like a Katana. More crafting and potion brewing? We need more crating and stuff in our bags for ingredients?

[rabidfox]

For Cord to fix his cuckoo clock... It's a must for the background of the weekly live stream.

[fatherpirate]

I really don't do live streams for forum stuff.
I am sure some folks do.

[Oxarhamar]

I really don't do live streams for forum stuff.
I am sure some folks do.

That’s where information is released from time to time