Update 49 - Offhand Hit Chance seems to be incorrect

[Jbo335]

Hey,

happy to have the worlds back up again!

I just continued my doublestrike/offhand testing with the dummies in cargo. I have a standing 84.78% doublestrike on my main hand and 100% offhand hit chance (= chance to make offhand attack). Generally, after the update 49, I was expecting to always (100% offhand hit chance) see 2 lines of damage when I hit dummy once with first line having the chance (84%) to show double damage and symbol (doublestrike with main hand) and a chance (42%) for a 3rd damage line when offhand doublestrikes.

What I see after 100 attacks is a offhand hit chance resp. chance to make offhand attack of only 68% instead of 100%. This is not why I selected feats for 100% offhand hit chance!

Additionally, in contrast to the release notes, I see the offhand doublestrikes in one line with the "doublesword"-symbol and not proc'ing a 3rd damage line. Which means that the offhand-non damage effects proc fewer times than what was intended.

The doublestrike percentage values which I measured seem to be correct for both hands.

Do I make a mistake here or is this a bug to be resolved?

Stanrok

[Lynnabel]

I'll take a look at the Offhand Strike stuff right now! It's possible that one of our attack scripts is missing its chance to deploy a second attack hook. For clarity, are you talking about your basic attack animations, or are you using any special attacks? Some of our special attacks may also be missing the hook but I'll need to look at the attack you were using specifically if you're talking about something like that, so any information you can give me will greatly speed up the investigation.

For clarity, yes, your offhand doublestrikes in the same method as your mainhand, including the doublestrike symbol. If you have two weapons and attack with both, you'll see two lines of floaty text, one for each weapon.

[Nickodeamous]

Hey Lynnabel, just to help out. I posted the below in one of the Lam forum discussions. I can confirm that what I saw from 100 hits was that my offhand hit was hitting around 76 times out of 100 when my offhand hit was 90%. I did confirm that the offhand doublestrike was indeed hitting 50% of the time (in my case 51%)

Hope this helps!
Nico


Dear SSG,

I just tested 100 hits to see if the doublestrike and offhand doublestrike mechanics are indeed working as intended. Below are my findings:

Notes and assumptions

Current Build has 76% doublestrike (before reaper)
Offhand hit %: 90%
TWF handwrap monk
Recorded only non-crits for comparison purposes


Hits: 100
Doublestrike on main hit: 80% (a tad high but, pretty close)
Offhand hits: 76 (kinda low actually)
Offhand Doublestrike: 51% (pretty much right on the button)


Overall, pretty close, but the offhand number of hits seemed to be about 20% lower than it should be (my offhand hit is 90% at cap, and I am ring in only 76% of offhand hits). Everything else measured up to what is in the notes. I did not test procs. This was purely for DS and Offhand DS.

Hope this helps!
Nico

[Jbo335]

I'll take a look at the Offhand Strike stuff right now! It's possible that one of our attack scripts is missing its chance to deploy a second attack hook. For clarity, are you talking about your basic attack animations, or are you using any special attacks? Some of our special attacks may also be missing the hook but I'll need to look at the attack you were using specifically if you're talking about something like that, so any information you can give me will greatly speed up the investigation.

For clarity, yes, your offhand doublestrikes in the same method as your mainhand, including the doublestrike symbol. If you have two weapons and attack with both, you'll see two lines of floaty text, one for each weapon.

Hi Lynnabel,
thx.

I can confirm that I use my basic attack = just one left-click on mouse. No special attacks etc. No sneak mode. No boost. In between hits I paused a bit.

[Magrok]

Might also be helpful to breakdown where you're getting your offhand hit chance from. I'm not super familiar with that stat, but I know a lot of stuff in DDO can get above 100% if you try, so if you e.g. have exactly 100% chance that could narrow out a couple effects, in the (unlikely, but plausible) possibility that it's something at the ability level and not systemic.

[Lynnabel]

Hi Lynnabel,
thx.

I can confirm that I use my basic attack = just one left-click on mouse. No special attacks etc. No sneak mode. No boost. In between hits I paused a bit.

What race/gender/class are you? I'm using a pure tempest ranger scourge right now and at 100% I am making 100% of my offhand strikes. If there's something up it may be race/gender specific.

[Jbo335]

What race/gender/class are you? I'm using a pure tempest ranger scourge right now and at 100% I am making 100% of my offhand strikes. If there's something up it may be race/gender specific.

I am halfling/male/pure rogue with Assassin/Thief Acrobat/Vistani trees. Fighting with 2 daggers.

[charlieman]

I am halfling/male/pure rogue with Assassin/Thief Acrobat/Vistani trees. Fighting with 2 daggers.

So I am also running a pure assassin halfling rogue (mine is female). I am sitting at 100% doublestrike and 100% offhand hit chance.

When I hit a dummy it seems I am always getting 2 numbers unless I 1 shot the dummy on the first hit (via a crit or something). I am always getting the doublestrike icon on the first hit unless its a miss (then it says miss) and it seems about half the time (makes sense because 100/2 = 50%) I get a doublestrike icon on the second number.

[charlieman]

What race/gender/class are you? I'm using a pure tempest ranger scourge right now and at 100% I am making 100% of my offhand strikes. If there's something up it may be race/gender specific.

I am curious - it says in game offhand doublestrike is half the value of mainhand. However, I have 110% mainhand doublestrike from some boosts could get 130% - in the notes it says it caps at 100% but considering its displaying 130% does that mean that I am getting 65% offhand doublestrike?

[Jbo335]

So I am also running a pure assassin halfling rogue (mine is female). I am sitting at 100% doublestrike and 100% offhand hit chance.

When I hit a dummy it seems I am always getting 2 numbers unless I 1 shot the dummy on the first hit (via a crit or something). I am always getting the doublestrike icon on the first hit unless its a miss (then it says miss) and it seems about half the time (makes sense because 100/2 = 50%) I get a doublestrike icon on the second number.

Typically (95+%) I oneshot the dummy on first hit. So, this can't be the cause in my case. But I see that you are a different gender.

[ice584]

I am curious - it says in game offhand doublestrike is half the value of mainhand. However, I have 110% mainhand doublestrike from some boosts could get 130% - in the notes it says it caps at 100% but considering its displaying 130% does that mean that I am getting 65% offhand doublestrike?

For the Lamannia test preview, YES, you would've gotten 65%.
But, I'm not sure whether the live build was intended to work that way or not. I'd love to see confirmation on 1) whether it did or did not, and 2) whether that is WAI.

This is another great example of why all these kinds of stats need to be added to the '+' tab on the character sheet. I don't really care whether it's supposed to work a certain way...show me the numeric value regardless. It makes it much easier to deduce whether things are working and how they work.

It would be great to see that '+' tab used as *THE* golden standard. A consolidated, single spot to view stats. Get rid of the inventory weapon preview that is only accurate 50% of the time.

EDIT: From the U49 release notes: Your offhand can only doublestrike a maximum of 50% of the time.
(it would still be good to get confirmation though)

[Jbo335]

I did a reincarnation and rechecked the statistic with my male halfling level 6 rogue assassin again.

Wearing 2 daggers and hitting the dummies by left-clicking the mouse I got the following results with 70 clicks:
- 6 mainhand doublestrikes which fits to my 9%DS. OK
- 17 Offhand strikes which equals to 24% instead of my 40% offhand hit chance in character window. NOT OK!!!
- 0 Offhand doublestrikes instead of 4.5% which should have been around 3. NOT OK!!!

My assumptions now are as I dont have any other feats that affect doublestrike and offhand:
- the Two Weapon Fighting feat is not working properly as it does not effectively increase my offhand hit chance from 20 to 40%.
- the EPIC past life Doublestrike (3x) is not working properly as it only gives 9% on mainhand and nothing on offhand.

[Tsutti]

I did a reincarnation and rechecked the statistic with my male halfling level 6 rogue assassin again.

Wearing 2 daggers and hitting the dummies by left-clicking the mouse I got the following results with 70 clicks:
- 6 mainhand doublestrikes which fits to my 9%DS. OK
- 17 Offhand strikes which equals to 24% instead of my 40% offhand hit chance in character window. NOT OK!!!
- 0 Offhand doublestrikes instead of 4.5% which should have been around 3. NOT OK!!!

My assumptions now are as I dont have any other feats that affect doublestrike and offhand:
- the Two Weapon Fighting feat is not working properly as it does not effectively increase my offhand hit chance from 20 to 40%.
- the EPIC past life Doublestrike (3x) is not working properly as it only gives 9% on mainhand and nothing on offhand.

Well, with such a low offhand doublestrike and the low number of only 70 clicks, it's plausible that you just got unlucky with them. About the offhand strike chance... it is possible that rather than the TWF feat not working, that instead the base offhand chance is not functioning. Based on previous comments, it seems like usually the observed offhand chance is ~20% lower than it theoretically should be, and I figure it makes more sense that the base isn't working properly rather than one of the three feats isn't working properly (why would only one not work but the other two do? maybe it's the case, but seems more unlikely).

[Jbo335]

It seems like the Offhand Hit Chance is working correctly now after the recent update. Many thanks to the Devs for this!

Just an update with my actual tests after the recent Update (level 10 rogue, male halfling):

Wearing 2 daggers and hitting the dummies by left-clicking the mouse I got the following results with 87 clicks:

- 12 mainhand doublestrikes gave me actual 14% mainhand DS which nearly fits to my 16% DS in character window.
- 60 Offhand strikes give about 69% offhand hit chance in this test which is a bit above my theoretical 60% Offhand hit chance.
- 3 Offhand doublestrikes result in 5% offhand DS instead of theoretical 8%. Seems to be close enough.