Increased spell damage for monsters

[Sythe777]

I know there have been some posts on this before, but I don't recall seeing a dev response about it... Are monsters supposed to have increased spell damage now? Judging from player responses about dev comments, it was just supposed to be player spell damage that should have been increased and not monster spell damage. Just running through on plain r1 for certain quests have become a significant pain, I'll give some examples:

1. At level 4, I was hit by a Famine Reaper in water works part 3 for 122 sonic damage from Sonic Blast (about 60% of my total health). This is after 14mrr, 12% absorption, and 35 resistance (still have guild resist shrines).
2. At level 12, I was hit by Sorjek in Tempest Spine with Call Lightning for ~150 electric damage on 1-4 second intervals (about 33% of my total health). This is after 40mrr, 12% absorption, and 40 resistance.
3. At level 15, I was hit by a Druid in Wrath of the Earth with Firestorm for ~250 fire damage. This is after 40mrr, 12% absorption, and 55 resistance.

It gets somewhat easier as I progress to higher levels as I have both a larger healthpool and can kill monsters faster on average, but levels 4-15 are a struggle.

I get that it's reaper and the challenge is inherent, but why should the spells be hitting for 3-4x more than a melee attack from a monster that is melee-based?

[mikarddo]

(still have guild resist shrines).

I like the fact that npc casters are dangerous again.

The way they changed the guild resist shrines sickens me. The fact that large guilds with many members stacking the parts to keep the resist shrines going can do so for literally years is just ... <censored>.

Either remove those shrines for everyone or let everyone keep them.

[Sythe777]

I like the fact that npc casters are dangerous again.

The way they changed the guild resist shrines sickens me. The fact that large guilds with many members stacking the parts to keep the resist shrines going can do so for literally years is just ... <censored>.

Either remove those shrines for everyone or let everyone keep them.

I don't mind them making casters more dangerous, but how much more dangerous do they really need to be when they do a fair bit of damage already. Take Sorjek's Call Lightning for example, before the changes were made, Call Lightning was doing about 50-70 damage with the same damage mitigation which was just enough for me to burn him down without dying. Now it does 3 times that. Should a Famine Reaper's level 1 sonic spell really be doing over 100 damage at level 4 after all that mitigation?

I'm surprised the devs didn't flat-out remove the shrines on the ship, but I'm glad my guild still has some of them left over from when they were purchasable. That said, they said there would be a replacement and we have yet to see it, after over a year.

[Mindos]

The way they changed the guild resist shrines sickens me. The fact that large guilds with many members stacking the parts to keep the resist shrines going can do so for literally years is just ... <censored>.

Either remove those shrines for everyone or let everyone keep them.

In my opinion, it was heavily implied that the resist shrines would be gone completely, i.e., it would be pointless to buy/stock up on them before removal. But then, viola... The communication here was lacking. If you go back and read some of the dev tracker at this time you will see what I mean. Even when asked DIRECTLY the message was basically that it was pointless to buy them. It upsets me too. :(



I don't mind them making casters more dangerous, but how much more dangerous do they really need to be when they do a fair bit of damage already. Take Sorjek's Call Lightning for example, before the changes were made, Call Lightning was doing about 50-70 damage with the same damage mitigation which was just enough for me to burn him down without dying. Now it does 3 times that. Should a Famine Reaper's level 1 sonic spell really be doing over 100 damage at level 4 after all that mitigation?

I'm surprised the devs didn't flat-out remove the shrines on the ship, but I'm glad my guild still has some of them left over from when they were purchasable. That said, they said there would be a replacement and we have yet to see it, after over a year.

I would like to see the caster damage comparison between Reaper 1 and Elite. How much is Reaper Mode skewing these numbers? And should or should not that be the case in Reaper? I *think* it was stated somewhere that Reaper mode was never set in stone and could be adjusted as needed...

[Sythe777]

I would like to see the caster damage comparison between Reaper 1 and Elite. How much is Reaper Mode skewing these numbers? And should or should not that be the case in Reaper? I *think* it was stated somewhere that Reaper mode was never set in stone and could be adjusted as needed...

On elite, it was 33% less damage, so I was getting hit with 100 damage (200 on failed save), but failing the DC more often because I did not have my reaper saves bonus. I also lose over 100hp from not being in reaper so the change in percent damage done to total health is moot.

The only good news I have for myself is that I can just put on my Pale Lav Ioun stone to stop it, just have to hope it lasts long enough to kill him...

[kanordog]

I know there have been some posts on this before, but I don't recall seeing a dev response about it... Are monsters supposed to have increased spell damage now? Judging from player responses about dev comments, it was just supposed to be player spell damage that should have been increased and not monster spell damage. Just running through on plain r1 for certain quests have become a significant pain, I'll give some examples:

1. At level 4, I was hit by a Famine Reaper in water works part 3 for 122 sonic damage from Sonic Blast (about 60% of my total health). This is after 14mrr, 12% absorption, and 35 resistance (still have guild resist shrines).
2. At level 12, I was hit by Sorjek in Tempest Spine with Call Lightning for ~150 electric damage on 1-4 second intervals (about 33% of my total health). This is after 40mrr, 12% absorption, and 40 resistance.
3. At level 15, I was hit by a Druid in Wrath of the Earth with Firestorm for ~250 fire damage. This is after 40mrr, 12% absorption, and 55 resistance.

It gets somewhat easier as I progress to higher levels as I have both a larger healthpool and can kill monsters faster on average, but levels 4-15 are a struggle.

I get that it's reaper and the challenge is inherent, but why should the spells be hitting for 3-4x more than a melee attack from a monster that is melee-based?

Nobody should be able to run r10. Ever.

[LjasonL]

Nobody should be able to run r10. Ever.
This is damage dealt by mobs in r1. It is obviously not intended for them to have increased damage dice on the buffed spells unless the devs decide to tell us later on that mobs will infact get increased dice on spells when player spells get buffed. Also saying no one should be able to run r10 is like saying back in the day no one should have been able to complete quests/raids on elite. No its a mmorpg let people play the difficulty they want to.

[kanordog]

This is damage dealt by mobs in r1. It is obviously not intended for them to have increased damage dice on the buffed spells unless the devs decide to tell us later on that mobs will infact get increased dice on spells when player spells get buffed. Also saying no one should be able to run r10 is like saying back in the day no one should have been able to complete quests/raids on elite. No its a mmorpg let people play the difficulty they want to.


Yes, the monster spell damage intentional and the opinion I wrote previously not mine. I could not care less what difficulty people playing on.

[slarden]

Call Lightning and Firestorm are definitely hitting harder since U48.4 and a handful of other spells - most notably anything buffed with U48.4. It mainly only hurts low MRR builds - many builds can absorb the extra damage no problem.

Famine reapers always hit for heavy sonic damage at low levels and those #s in waterworks aren't bad - it might be worse since U48.4 but doesn't seem too out of balance to me. You should shoot for 200 hp by the time you hit waterworks reapers. Famine reapers will hit you for 4k+ Horrid Wilting in level 30+ quests if you don't kill it fast enough.

I don't believe the devs intended to buff enemy spells because they said enemy spells wouldn't be buffed in one of the posts, but perhaps they are leaving it as for more challenge. Either way they haven't commented and should at least state their current thinking on it.

[KoobTheProud]

I guess if Reaper 1 is just for grinding and not challenge it makes sense to keep the damage caster mobs can do limited to not enough to actually kill a well built toon.

Toons that aren't absolutely well-built should not be in Reaper even if it just is for grinding at this point.

[boredGamer]

Is it just me or did none of that damage look that bad?

[Seph1roth5]

First off, the elemental shrines aren't the issue here, since you can cast resist energy. So unless at lv 11 all the spells become magically feather-strong, the shrines are irrelevant.

Second, and most importantly, all of the spell changes that have come out in the past few years were meant to be a bonus for players, to bring up **** spells and meh enhancement trees to be a fun and powerful thing. It's very SSG to say they're going to give players a boost while simultaneously nerfing something else to "balance it." (see bow pass).

Most of the time it doesn't really affect veterans with piles of PL and loot and such, but for anyone else it's nonsensical. Just look at all the people that die to kobold shamans in hardcore leagues. Lightning bolt got a 50% doubleshot so that it could compete with fireball.

Third, the people that argue against stuff like this are usually elitist veterans with piles of PL and loot and whose fun goes up as other people's fun goes down.

I've personally never been killed by any of the new spells since they were changed, but I've seen someone obliterated by a fire storm on hardcore, mad tea party. He had high HP (for a bard), 30 resist, and it still overkilled him by a good chunk.

Spells damage was increased to be competitive when used against enemies with thousands and thousands of HP. I think it's just lazy programming to give the enemies the same spells. They can obviously be very picky about it when they want, since the new inflict calculations don't apply to player heals.

[Sythe777]

Call Lightning and Firestorm are definitely hitting harder since U48.4 and a handful of other spells - most notably anything buffed with U48.4. It mainly only hurts low MRR builds - many builds can absorb the extra damage no problem.

low MRR builds such as... heroics? the main thing I'm talking about?


Famine reapers always hit for heavy sonic damage at low levels and those #s in waterworks aren't bad - it might be worse since U48.4 but doesn't seem too out of balance to me. You should shoot for 200 hp by the time you hit waterworks reapers. Famine reapers will hit you for 4k+ Horrid Wilting in level 30+ quests if you don't kill it fast enough.

Famine reapers have not always hit for 100+ sonic damage at levels <5, no. And yes, I do have over 200hp in reaper at level 4. Famine reapers hit for 4k+ Horrid Wiltings in high reapers, not R1. Keep in mind that's what I'm talking about, Heroic Reaper 1.


I don't believe the devs intended to buff enemy spells because they said enemy spells wouldn't be buffed in one of the posts, but perhaps they are leaving it as for more challenge. Either way they haven't commented and should at least state their current thinking on it.

This is the statement that people keep claiming that I referred to in the OP, but I couldn't find a post about it. Looked through the spell changes post and couldn't see one.

[slarden]

low MRR builds such as... heroics? the main thing I'm talking about?

By the time you encounter firestorm there are many builds that will barely feel the damage from the spell and other builds that will get one-shot.

Your mitigation opportunities against firestorm are
- Make your save and reduce damage by 50% or eliminate it entirely by making your save
- Get more MRR from enhancements, gear, equipping a shield
- Large Shield + will double your MRR against the spell
- Fire Resistance
- Fire Absorb - item or fire shield spell/scroll
- With improved evasion damage is reduced by 50% on a failed save and ignored entirely with a save
- Higher hit points

So yes depending on your build these changes may or may not bother you.

As far as your point about the damage being too high - it's up to the devs. I haven't seen any indication they plan to address it in U49. In general I am against too much one-shotting on low difficulties because it over-rewards highly defensive builds too much, but the devs might feel differently.