Question about SWF Feat on builds

[Quintain-Valewalker]

I have been playing for a while, but have been away for a couple of years. I have recently been searching for builds through the various threads for different character classes, races, feat & enhancement synergies, etc. I have seen quite a few builds which employ the Single Weapon Fighting (SWF) feat, but also use a shield. I am curious if they have changed the feat parameters? Under the SWF feat I read you can only use an Orb, Rune Arm, or nothing in your off hand. Is this feat not affected by the use of a shield in the off hand? I apologize if this was asked and answered already on another post. I have tried to find an answer, but have come up empty. I would assume the shield would not impact this feat since many of the builds I see are from people who have been playing more often and longer than I. I appreciate all the help. Thank you to all those who take the time to do the research and comparisons between the many different options and post you work. Have a great day.

[MacDubh]

See Swashbuckler Enhancement tree (https://ddowiki.com/page/Swashbuckler_enhancements)

Swashbuckling Style: Choose One:
...
Skirmisher: Passive: While Swashbuckling with a Buckler in your off hand, you gain 10% Dodge, and you may use a Buckler and still benefit from the Single Weapon Fighting line of feats.
Allows you to benefit from both Single Weapon Fighting and Shield Mastery simultaneously. (Melee Power does not stack, both feat chains grant Combat Style bonus).
....

[Epicsoul]

If they're using a buckler, the Skirmisher enhancement in the Bard Swashbuckling tree allows one to use a buckler in the offhand while SWF.

[FuzzyDuck81]

I have been playing for a while, but have been away for a couple of years. I have recently been searching for builds through the various threads for different character classes, races, feat & enhancement synergies, etc. I have seen quite a few builds which employ the Single Weapon Fighting (SWF) feat, but also use a shield. I am curious if they have changed the feat parameters? Under the SWF feat I read you can only use an Orb, Rune Arm, or nothing in your off hand. Is this feat not affected by the use of a shield in the off hand? I apologize if this was asked and answered already on another post. I have tried to find an answer, but have come up empty. I would assume the shield would not impact this feat since many of the builds I see are from people who have been playing more often and longer than I. I appreciate all the help. Thank you to all those who take the time to do the research and comparisons between the many different options and post you work. Have a great day.

The swashbuckler enhancement line for bards allows the use of bucklers with SWF (they were introduced at the same time) but has additional requirements including being limited to light armour & a specific set of light weapons. It has a number of nice synergies for multiclassing.

[Quintain-Valewalker]

Thank you all for the replies. I have not played a Swashbuckler type character as of yet. I guess I didn't research what I was looking for hard enough. Thank you for your understanding and support.

[unbongwah]

Note that those builds predate the new feat: Offhand Versatility.
Requires Base Attack Bonus 8 and Single Weapon Fighting

Your offhand item modifies your main hand:


[*=1]Runearms and Orbs now grant: when you vorpal strike, your next spell automatically crits. This has an internal cooldown of 20 seconds and lasts for 20 seconds.
[*=1]Nothing in your offhand increases your ability score modifier to damage by 25%.


Fighters may select this feat as one of their Fighter Bonus Feats.

So if you're playing a Swashbuckler, the four options become:


Skirmisher: pros - stacks with Shield Mastery feats (PRR + doublestrike), works with Improved Shield Bash, buckler qualifies for Greater Stalwart Defense enhancements in Stalwart Defender; cons - requires 4 feats (5 if you count ISB) and one Fate Twist (Legendary Shield Mastery) to max out benefits (in addition to the SWF feats)
Dashing Scoundrel: pros - +10% Doublestrike, Offhand Versatility adds +0.25x damage modifier bonus; cons - costs a feat, offhand must remain empty
Arcane Marauder: pros - equip orb in offhand, Offhand Versatility adds free spell crit chance; cons - costs a feat, need Magical Training (4 APs into Spellsinger)
Cannoneer: pros - equip Runearm in offhand, Offhand Versatility adds free spell crit chance; cons - costs a feat, requires Artificer 2 splash (so no bard capstone)

[Discpsycho]

Skirmisher: pros - stacks with Shield Mastery feats (PRR + doublestrike), works with Improved Shield Bash, buckler qualifies for Greater Stalwart Defense enhancements in Stalwart Defender; cons - requires 2 feats (3 if you count ISB) and one Fate Twist (Legendary Shield Mastery) to max out benefits


We're up to three heroic Shield Mastery (https://ddowiki.com/page/Shield_Mastery) feats now, not counting ISB. The third only gives +2% doublestrike and +5 PRR from Improved Shield Mastery, so it may not be worthwhile on a Swash that already needs six combat feats (SWF x3, IC, SM x2) before ISB.

As a pure Human Bard, your 8 feats would allow SWF x3, SM x3, IC, and one of Quicken / Force of Personality / ISB / Precision. IMO the last four feats are each more valuable than the third Shield Mastery, with the possible exception of ISB if you've got a Bashing item equipped.

[unbongwah]

We're up to three heroic Shield Mastery (https://ddowiki.com/page/Shield_Mastery) feats now, not counting ISB. The third only gives +2% doublestrike and +5 PRR from Improved Shield Mastery, so it may not be worthwhile on a Swash that already needs six combat feats (SWF x3, IC, SM x2) before ISB.
Oh right, I totally forgot there's two new SM feats, Greater SM and Perfect SM.

As a pure Human Bard, your 8 feats would allow SWF x3, SM x3, IC, and one of Quicken / Force of Personality / ISB / Precision. IMO the last four feats are each more valuable than the third Shield Mastery, with the possible exception of ISB if you've got a Bashing item equipped.
Which is why I think Offhand Versatility starts to look more appealing if you're playing a pure bard: +10% Doublestrike and +0.25x damage modifier for one feat; versus +17% doublestrike and +30 PRR for four feats and one Fate Twist.

Nobody picks pure bard and expects to be a melee DPS machine. Might as well put those three feats into boosting your spellcasting rather than a relatively modest boost to DPS.