Need a programmer for Gear Tetris Program

[Abilbo]

So I am just the idea guy, and not the designer guy or programmer guy, or even the guy you want to be the face (I am not a handsome man) of your idea, but Idea's I can manage very well.

Gear tetris is a thing. Every time the game comes out with a new batch of shiny's, the players who want the "best of the best" for their characters spend hours trying to figure out a way to gear out their characters to maximize all the stuff that they want/need. What we need is a program that lists all the equipment in DDO, that you can set parameters into, and then allow the program to tell you which gear would be "best in slot".

Example:
I am a level 30 Artificer, I want max stats in Intel first, Con 2nd.
I need max DC's for Evocation.
I need max Spell Power for Electricity.
I need max Mana
I need Extra Health.

The program would then list which gear piece I would fit into each slot, to best maximize the things that I listed for my Artificer. If the "search" tabs were prioritized so that you could select the "order of importance" for each request. The program then searches for gear, to best suit your requests.

Yeah, yeah, I know, this kind of program would take a lot of programming and hard work to make happen, so I am happy to buy you a beer when you are done.

[Gniewomir]

and the greatest thing about it, is that it wouldn't effect anyone who didn't want to use the program

This is false. It would affect every player, because everyone who would not use such exterior tool would be left behind and worse. I'd like to remind you that you're asking for the program that will choose for you the best possible gear ever. For example human being can't beat computer in chess game and you're asking for similar tool: everyone who will choose to not use it we'll be worse than everyone who will (in terms of gear).

[Gniewomir]

When you go to buy a car, do you look at ever make and model car that is out there, test drive every single one, look at all of the reports dealing with crash test safety, and read all the documentation that you can on the life expectancy of the engine and when you should start to see wear and tear and when its time to do maintanence on the car, or do you pick up a copy of Consumer Reports and read the reports on the best car of 2021? Guessing that shows my age, I am guessing that younger folks just look at the various apps on their phone that do the same thing, and then make the decision that they feel is best for them.

There are thousands of pieces of gear out there in the DDO world. Trying to remember what they all are, and when/where is the best place to use them can be confusing at times. If this was a 3rd party program, like many of the good programs that are out there already, players have the very simple choice of use them or not. If its not for you, no biggie, don't use it, but for me, if such a program existed I would definitely give it a try.

You do not have to remember anything. Just use ddowiki. Need const item? Google: ddo const items and you'll see the list of all available in game const items. You're not asking for a tool that will help you remember anything, you're asking for a tool that will do the job instead of you so you can feel the most powerful ddo being.

I'm not going to refer to your car comparison, cause to be honest it's so silly to compare purchasing a car to a gear layout in mmo game... If you don't see any differences here, then i don't think i can convince you it's not accurate.

[droid327]

Did you even bother to google "DDO Gear Planner" or do you need someone to code a program to tell you to do that too? :P

https://ddo-gear-planner.netlify.app

[cru121]

Have you tried this: https://ddo-gear-planner.netlify.app/#/affixes

[Abilbo]

This is false. It would affect every player, because everyone who would not use such exterior tool would be left behind and worse. I'd like to remind you that you're asking for the program that will choose for you the best possible gear ever. For example human being can't beat computer in chess game and you're asking for similar tool: everyone who will choose to not use it we'll be worse than everyone who will (in terms of gear).

I have to disagree with you. You can currently figure out the best gear for your character all by yourself, it just requires a fair amount of time, and some decent understanding of the game and gear that is currently out there. The program, like many programs, would only be as good as the programming that went into it, and no matter how good it was, there would still be people who think that they can do better, and wouldn't use the program. Using that program IMHO wouldn't be much different than me sitting in discord for 8 hours talking with my friends in discord about gear, and trying to swap gear around, and listening to the input of people who's opinions I have grown to trust over time. But what about the player, who comes back to DDO after a 2 year break (reasons why the player was gone are irrelevant) only to find most of the people you knew are gone, and you are that player is struggling with the game.

3rd party programs don't take away from the game. They are a tool, that some players use, to make their game time more enjoyable.

I hear the phrase "the worst thing about DDO is the community" but the same can be said for whats best about DDO is the community. I don't just come to the forums so I can read the newest post about how horrible the lag is, I come to the forums to read build ideas, and what players think would be good additions to the game. I don't have to agree with them, but its still interesting to read what they post.

[Abilbo]

I'm not going to refer to your car comparison, cause to be honest it's so silly to compare purchasing a car to a gear layout in mmo game... If you don't see any differences here, then i don't think i can convince you it's not accurate.

My point is that it doesn't matter if you are buying a car or playing a game. If there is a 3rd party program that makes it easier for you, why is that a bad thing. Lets face it, 30 + years ago, they added "rapid fire" or "auto fire" buttons to game console controllers to make it easier for players. You still have the choice to use the button or not.

[axel15810]

If someone could pull it off, I'd totally support that program.

With the huge number of stacking effects and types for everything, augments, minor artifacts, etc. etc. gear tetris in DDO is so annoyingly complicated. I've spent so many hours on the ddowiki and excel swapping gear in and out of a spreadsheet trying to find the best combinations.

I really don't find that part of the gearing process fun in general. Just annoying. So it'd be wonderful if a program could spit out an optimized gearset and simplify the logic problem that is gear tetris to make it less of a chore.

[M.ham]

If someone could pull it off, I'd totally support that program.

With the huge number of stacking effects and types for everything, augments, minor artifacts, etc. etc. gear tetris in DDO is so annoyingly complicated. I've spent so many hours on the ddowiki and excel swapping gear in and out of a spreadsheet trying to find the best combinations.

I really don't find that part of the gearing process fun in general. Just annoying. So it'd be wonderful if a program could spit out an optimized gearset and simplify the logic problem that is gear tetris to make it less of a chore.

DDO Named Gear Planner:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/511591-DDO-Named-Gear-Planner

[axel15810]

DDO Named Gear Planner:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/511591-DDO-Named-Gear-Planner

I already use Maetrim's planner. It's not the same thing as what the original poster is proposing. What the original poster is proposing is a program that would spit out gear sets for you based on your inputs.

I've not used that specific planner, but it looks very similar to Maetrim's. If it contains this feature then great, I stand corrected. But I'm assuming it doesn't.

[Sarkastik]

I've thought about trying to do this several times but so far concluded it's more work than I'm willing to do. There's a lot of gear to consider and it changes enough that you wouldn't want to have to update the program database every time gear is added or changed in the game. My thinking was that the best thing would be to scrape gear info off of the wiki. I'd also love to see something that allowed you to enter your current gear and suggest quick upgrades rated by ease of acquiring the item(s).

I see one or two comments suggesting that some people think such a program would lessen game enjoyment because of it's ability to instantly show the "best" gear. But, there's no such thing as "best" gear, since it all depends on what stats the player is trying to enhance. I think that having a tool to help do this is a nice tool to have, and I'd certainly make use of it.

[droid327]

I already use Maetrim's planner. It's not the same thing as what the original poster is proposing. What the original poster is proposing is a program that would spit out gear sets for you based on your inputs.

I've not used that specific planner, but it looks very similar to Maetrim's. If it contains this feature then great, I stand corrected. But I'm assuming it doesn't.

It gives suggestions for each slot based on your affix priorities

Just totally black-boxing it would be difficult, though, because you'd need to weight all your priorities, so the program knows which to prioritize first. And those priorities would change depending on what you already have slotted elsewhere, so it would need dynamic weighting parameters too. To get it to actually give you a complete optimized gearset would require so many inputs and tuning that it'd be just as complicated and time-consuming as building the gearset yourself.

[teejax]

To those who think this would lessen the game by spitting out fully optimal gearsets:

Optimising this is essentially a version of the knapsack problem https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knapsack_problem, so it's fairly unlikely the tool would find truely 'optimal' gearsets (I'm not saying it wouldn't be useful). Unless the input was very complicated (ie max wanted, min wanted, some sort of relative value weight function for _every_ stat/ability/effect) it would still miss out on interesting ideas (ie you said you wanted to max int, here's a gearset with max int - 2, but 1000 more hp)

So OP, what's your *idea* of what the input would look like? An algorithm that help you max 3 things is simple and perfectly doable, but wouldn't be that useful.

[boredGamer]

To those who think this would lessen the game by spitting out fully optimal gearsets:

Optimising this is essentially a version of the knapsack problem https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knapsack_problem, so it's fairly unlikely the tool would find truely 'optimal' gearsets (I'm not saying it wouldn't be useful). Unless the input was very complicated (ie max wanted, min wanted, some sort of relative value weight function for _every_ stat/ability/effect) it would still miss out on interesting ideas (ie you said you wanted to max int, here's a gearset with max int - 2, but 1000 more hp)

So OP, what's your *idea* of what the input would look like? An algorithm that help you max 3 things is simple and perfectly doable, but wouldn't be that useful.

To pile on, I would also argue that *you yourself* won't know the optimal gear set for *yourself* until you have tried a number of iterations.

Getting to an optimal gear set for yourself is to know why you're making the tradeoffs you're making, which generally comes from playing through various iterations so you understand why or if you want to make said trade off.

[Ultinoob]

I had the same idea more or less.

I was thinking about making it user editable, so users can make a new item.

The backend should be a sql database with all the items and the frontend the webapge shown to people.

Two things made me not do it:
1) If it is user editable i was thinking it would be very easy for somebody to destroy it. Making a log in is not an option as i's have to obey the data law and i do not know how to do that.
2) The amount of work i have to do. I can't even keep my current webpage updated.

If however somebody want's to put in the work i do not mind sharing all my ideas.

[Gniewomir]

My point is that it doesn't matter if you are buying a car or playing a game. If there is a 3rd party program that makes it easier for you, why is that a bad thing. Lets face it, 30 + years ago, they added "rapid fire" or "auto fire" buttons to game console controllers to make it easier for players. You still have the choice to use the button or not.

There're also programs like aim bots in fps games which makes your life easier cause you don't have to move your mouse to move gunpoint, but for some reasons majority of players do not like those who use them. I'll repeat again: you did not asked for a program that will choose average/optimal gear so you can fit all bonuses you need, you asked for program that will chose the best, unbeatable by human gear layout. In such form i consider it a tool similar to aimbot. Of course you could say that ddo in not (for some players) competitive game, but i don't consider good for any online game to have exterior tools able to boost performance above what any real player can achieve.



3rd party programs don't take away from the game. They are a tool, that some players use, to make their game time more enjoyable.

So your time will be more enjoyable only if someone will tell you what are the best items for every slot for every your build? If so, then maybe the problem here is totally different than gear layout...

[Abilbo]

you asked for program that will chose the best, unbeatable by human gear layout.

Please show me where I asked for a program that is "unbeatable by human gear layout"




So your time will be more enjoyable only if someone will tell you what are the best items for every slot for every your build? If so, then maybe the problem here is totally different than gear layout...

My time is whats important to me, spending 6-10 hours sorting through gear, everytime gear sets change, or if I TR and switch Races (which can cause gear to become invalid) or if I change in a different build, then spending a lot of time trying to find the "optimal" or "best" gear for end game raiding and high reaper gets old.

I simply posted what I thought would be a good idea, if you don't like the idea of a program assisting you with Gear tetris, then don't use it, its that simple.

[Gniewomir]

Please show me where I asked for a program that is "unbeatable by human gear layout"

Actually, it's nothing more than a logic.


She players who want the "best of the best" for their characters *snip* the program to tell you which gear would be "best in slot". *snip* to best maximize*snip* The program then searches for gear, to best suit your requests.

As far as i know the best means there's no better possible, and since program will select the best possible gear then players cant do better than the best, the only thing players will be able to do is worse. Like i said by using chess example: if computer program is designed (well) to do something the best it's possible, it also becomes unbeatable to real human.




My time is whats important to me, spending 6-10 hours sorting through gear, everytime gear sets change, or if I TR and switch Races (which can cause gear to become invalid) or if I change in a different build, then spending a lot of time trying to find the "optimal" or "best" gear for end game raiding and high reaper gets old.

I'm doing iconics now on my 2nd character, pretty much different build every life, so every life i need different gear and just by using google it takes me 1h max to select the gear i need. Maybe not the best of the best, but it works just fine and suits my needs. And if you're looking for end game gear cause your'e going to spend some time at cap, then you won't have to do gear tetris often, so imao you can sacrifice hour or two once per month (more?) to do tetris. Especially since, if you're not expecting the best of the best unbeatable gear layout, then currently available planers will do just fine and you can do your tetris in 10 min.

[boredGamer]

I'm doing iconics now on my 2nd character, pretty much different build every life, so every life i need different gear and just by using google it takes me 1h max to select the gear i need. Maybe not the best of the best, but it works just fine and suits my needs. And if you're looking for end game gear cause your'e going to spend some time at cap, then you won't have to do gear tetris often, so imao you can sacrifice hour or two once per month (more?) to do tetris. Especially since, if you're not expecting the best of the best unbeatable gear layout, then currently available planers will do just fine and you can do your tetris in 10 min.

As I posted above, I think in game experience leading you to your own optimal gear set is more important than a "best gear set". However:

In DDO, certain design decisions have made it so gearing decisions represent much larger obstacles than just pick this gear, or pick that gear. Planning GS, slavers, or even nearly finished crafting can mean hours or days of wasted game time for a decision that seems right at the time, but then oh, I can move these two pieces of gear, and get that piece of gear, now I should change 1 slot on that crafted gear. Oh, I'll just overwrite it (with more materials) - BUT I CAN'T. Ok, so now I'll just go farm another base item, ingredients for all the slots, and recreate it. Just to do it again a bit later when gear slightly changes again.

So, planning especially around crafting or finishing sorts of mechanics in DDO does indeed become more important, and not just in a "AI chess I'm better than everyone" way.

TLDR; devs - remove the stupid crafting mechanics and let us overwrite slots. Thanks.

[J-2]

So, for ***** and giggles, I started something in excel a while back that did this.
A program, but more of one that merely organized the data.
It was a filtering tool more than a one stop shopping list generator.

The data requirements are huge.
Complete list of character related stats.
Complete list of equipment related stats.
Complete list of effects.
Complete list of augment related effects.
Complete list of filigree related effects.

Those are small sentences with HUGE hours involved. Mind numbingly long hours.
By saying character stats, you need ALL of it. Epic destinies, Set bonuses, Past Lives, the works.
You need to know character stats that may not seem relevant at first (glares at alignment and class).
It's a lot.

Things need done multiple times due to old system to new system changes.
A ring can be called OGRE POWER if its old system or MIGHTY as a prefix or STRENGTH as a suffix on the new.
But then it can also be BULLYING on the new new system. Maybe not. Who thought this way was a great idea.

And that data is in a constant state of change. You will have to update them periodically.
And then what about bugs? Do you explicitly mar the system or the data to compensate for them?

Then you got decision making.
You have to teach the computer how the character works.
You have to teach the computer how the equipment works.
You have to teach the computer how to decide an equipment decision path
You have to teach the computer to record the data from a decision path.
You have to itterate that decision multiple times, recording the result, and analyze the possibilities.
You have to teach the computer to decide which decision path is best suited.

Again, small sentences with HUGE undertakings.

I decided it was best to scrap that idea.
Instead, I realized that spreadsheets that are 'filter friendly' are better than any AI.
Now I have a **** tonne of spreadsheets that are nice, but need probably need updating.
But I do have several custom made "web page parsers" I made/adapted to harvest the info out of ddowiki.

Yeah. That's my advice to you.
Get the big bottle of Tylenol.
Get good with Excel.
Get good at harvesting data.
Build good spreadsheets in Excel.
Get good at filtering in Excel.

[Sarkastik]

So your time will be more enjoyable only if someone will tell you what are the best items for every slot for every your build? If so, then maybe the problem here is totally different than gear layout...

Every person is going to have their own opinion on this, their own threshold beyond which they consider certain tools or "tactics" cheating and lessens their own enjoyment of the game. Maybe some people consider reading the wiki to be cheating, or discussing strategy with other people or guildies in game, or using puzzle solvers, or crafting planners, or corner shooting, this list can be made very large. If you feel it's cheating, that's fine, don't use it. I often play permadeath, by choice, by this same reasoning. I don't insist that everyone else play permadeath, however.

There's no need to be rude just because other people have a different opinion than you. You may think your opinion is correct, and everyone else's incorrect, but that's not the way life works. Personally, I'd definitely use this tool if it were available, and if you're going to be so condescending then I'll definitely not be paying any attention to your opinion. As far as enforcement of such things, the only opinion that is relevant is that of SSG.

[Bjond]

Gear tetris is a thing.

I've thought about forking a branch of Maetrim's to add a gear optimizer to it, but if I ever get motivated enough to do it, it's a sign that the game is over for me. From past experience, the instant I start messing with coding or re-coding a game (eg. UI, hacking solo games, etc), it means that game is very soon to be punted in favor of one where I don't feel motivated to do the dev's work for them.

BTW, the coding for a DB search with multiple hard criteria is v.easy. The problem is that criteria are soft. Folks are willing to give a little here or there to get something back. And, there's the real grunt work of loading and scrubbing the DB in the first place, which could end up being 90% of the effort.


You do not have to remember anything. Just use ddowiki. Need const item? Google: ddo const

This method for gearing is likely the reason for most of the "bad" builds and weak characters in game. Take Maetrim's builder for a spin and make a L29 gear set for a character that you intend to play at cap a while. After you're 100% happy, then go out and get the gear. Then play the character.

A character geared that way is sooo much more fun and effective than your casual tetris-bumpkin could possible imagine. PLs matter, but the biggest quantum leap is from using the builder.