Are Minor Artifacts worse than Ravenloft belts?

[janave]

Ravenloft belts seemed to at least partially support all builds, if for nothing else the additional positive spell power was useful for every character except for maybe Warforged using repair only healing.

The belts locked in the slot for the less supported Elemental casters, but now we dont really have good alternatives in that same slot, for many of us it is a forced gear change.

Artifacts with 2 set bonuses ( older artifacts do not have set bonus, some recent raid artifacts have 1 set bonus ) seem to be the new power bump. Anyone missed by these items is now relatively in a worse spot.

2 gloves
1 necklace
1 belt

There is some sneak attack necklace, generic dps gloves ( probably conflicts for most melee), defensive tanky gloves.

And surprise? The clear winner is once again INT based DC casters who will be able to run with 20% hit points and 20% spell points and easily decked out MRR with the new Medium Armors. so, Wizard.

https://i.imgur.com/HqRJWrL.png

Why is the design orientation so microscopic? we have over 50 build paths from pure classed builds, and many more with race and multiclass combination. This is supposed to be a D&D game, so we only have 6 ability points to support tho... that seems... manageable?

[archest]

Given enough time the devs will nerf them so that nether is any good.

[Valerianus]

i never played int based dc caster for real, but in my humble opinion, i guess bis artifact is the sharn one with int 22 and +2 quality to dc, and glove slot is locked on any caster build by those sacred +2 to dc feytwisted gloves. these 2 pieces of gear alone would provide best int boost and + 4 dc. i think a caster wizard will use none of the gear you linked. at least, should i plan the gear of a int dc caster, this would be my starting point.

just my 2 cents

[Drwaz99]

When they have to sell new mini-expansions or "full" expansions, rest assured, they will nerf them into oblivion. Or maybe sooner now that people are mentioning new things that need to be nerfed but really don't need to be.

[FuzzyDuck81]

Dual set bonuses are nice, but it's difficult to go particularly deep on them & a couple of those bonuses are themselves intended to be easier to acquire versions of some of the legendary greensteel gear - remember too that although it's been put on the back burner for now, increased level cap is still in the future.

[slarden]

4 piece winter 2 piece summer works better for me than the "caster" season gear for most of my casters. 20% hp, 40 MRR, 40 PRR is just more impactful than 2-3 dc in my case. Even if I join an R10 group vs. soloing R6 I know which enemies to target so it makes little difference.

I wouldn't say you are locked in there are multiple setups but since any of the armor with 15% exc bonus lacks healing/negative healing/repair amp the gloves are worth giving up a dc for me. My perspective is soloing so I found the extra survivability better than the 6-7% dps bump I get from 4 piece lgs vs 1 piece lgs on my sorc. So what if I a boss fight takes a few seconds longer - dying is much more costly.

So I am using this on my bladeforged sorc:

goggles: L Dusk Lenses
helm: L Crown of Snow, Ceruleaen Wave, Fire Shield (Cold), Spell focus mastery 7, Ins Spell Focus Mastery 4
neck: LGS 35% Crit damage boost
trinket: Sheltering, Repair Lore 27, Repair 22, Quality Cha 4
Cloak: L Magewright, Charisma 21, Wizardry 453, Enchantment Focus 9, Ins Enchant Focus 5
Belt: L Direbear Belt, Ins Shelt 27, Rough Hide 5, Natural Armor 21
Ring: L Ring of Summer's Heat: Fire Lore 31, Combust 214, Radiance Lore 31, Radiance 214
Gloves: Princes Gauntlets Con 22, Lifeblood of the Prince, Quality Res 4, Quality Shelt 15
Boots: L Deepsnow Boots, Ins Con 10, Quality Con 5, Fom, Fort 17
Ring: L Shattered Onyx, Ins Char 10, Profane Spell Focus 2, Ins Res 8, Ins Dodge 10
Bracers: L Aetherband, Spell Pen 9, Ins Spell Pen 5, Mag Eff 10%, Shield 21
Armor: L Enigma Core, Fort 214, Phys Shelt 54, Exc Spell Lore 10, Exc spellpower 20

L Queen Sceptre: Potency 154, Ins Potency 77, Ins Spellsight 11
Offhand: LGS Salt for mobs, LGS Ash for bosses

Sub-optimal for an R10 group? Probably, but for soloing R6 I prefer going in with 300 PRR, 200 MRR, 90+ saves - and even the 200 armor class seems like it results in me getting hit less. R10 in a full group is easy enough anyhow that I don't feel like I am hurting the group, but soloing R6 I still have to play more careful and need decent defenses.

I want to switch to feywild dreamer docent + magewright + chained elemental + 4 piece winter + 2 summer but it's working well for me now so I haven't pushed it.

[Marshal_Lannes]

a couple of those bonuses are themselves intended to be easier to acquire versions of some of the legendary greensteel gear -

This right here. Set bonuses are actually balancing measures that allow people who didn't have access to Legendary Greensteel to level the playing field somewhat.

[janave]

When they have to sell new mini-expansions or "full" expansions, rest assured, they will nerf them into oblivion. Or maybe sooner now that people are mentioning new things that need to be nerfed but really don't need to be.

No-no, my conclusion was more like, where is the STR, CHA, WIS, DEX dual set Artifact? When a power bump is released into the game, why left it for years with these gaps? Looking at event Augments, LGS, Filigrees, etc.. Gear ceilings at level cap should be roughly equal, at least for the largest factors/bases/multipliers. IMO, Artifacts and sets are a welcome addition, they can make gearing interesting, except when they are artificially scarce like right now.

[Drwaz99]

No-no, my conclusion was more like, where is the STR, CHA, WIS, DEX dual set Artifact? When a power bump is released into the game, why left it for years with these gaps? Looking at event Augments, LGS, Filigrees, etc.. Gear ceilings at level cap should be roughly equal, at least for the largest factors/bases/multipliers. IMO, Artifacts and sets are a welcome addition, they can make gearing interesting, except when they are artificially scarce like right now.

Ah, gotcha. My apologies, then. I agree with you on your point now that I understand it better.

[Oxarhamar]

No-no, my conclusion was more like, where is the STR, CHA, WIS, DEX dual set Artifact? When a power bump is released into the game, why left it for years with these gaps? Looking at event Augments, LGS, Filigrees, etc.. Gear ceilings at level cap should be roughly equal, at least for the largest factors/bases/multipliers. IMO, Artifacts and sets are a welcome addition, they can make gearing interesting, except when they are artificially scarce like right now.

Meh the sets are nice but slotting all the supporting items in the set means slotting a bunch of affects that are useless anyways.

[droid327]

Meh the sets are nice but slotting all the supporting items in the set means slotting a bunch of affects that are useless anyways.

Yeah this is what I concluded after mocking up some gear Tetris with the new sets.

Between the new Artifacts conflicting with other set gear (eg Prince's Gauntlets vs. both Wallwatch and PotF), and finding even 3 other items in the Fey sets that are all worth wearing for a given build, the new artifacts are at best extremely niche pieces. Its not enough to change the meta nearly as significantly as the RL belts impacted the overall meta.

[Dnarth]

This right here. Set bonuses are actually balancing measures that allow people who didn't have access to Legendary Greensteel to level the playing field somewhat.


You mean like the belt from RL. lol Back pedaling from democratization of gameplay. A belt that anyone who owned RL could get and not have to run a raid.

The same belt slot that doesn't have many choices to put in the belt slot. You can't defend the bad gear development with a easy knock down strawman. You are good at it comrade. But easy to see through.

[Dnarth]

Yes the choices for a player to develop a gear set for their casters doesn't have as many choices as melee. Which is sad. The gear development team is very short sighted. Hey how may pieces of gear could we put reflex saves on. All of them!!!!! :rolleyes:

[slarden]

4 piece winter 2 piece summer works better for me than the "caster" season gear for most of my casters. 20% hp, 40 MRR, 40 PRR is just more impactful than 2-3 dc in my case. Even if I join an R10 group vs. soloing R6 I know which enemies to target so it makes little difference.

I wouldn't say you are locked in there are multiple setups but since any of the armor with 15% exc bonus lacks healing/negative healing/repair amp the gloves are worth giving up a dc for me. My perspective is soloing so I found the extra survivability better than the 6-7% dps bump I get from 4 piece lgs vs 1 piece lgs on my sorc. So what if I a boss fight takes a few seconds longer - dying is much more costly.

So I am using this on my bladeforged sorc:

goggles: L Dusk Lenses
helm: L Crown of Snow, Ceruleaen Wave, Fire Shield (Cold), Spell focus mastery 7, Ins Spell Focus Mastery 4
neck: LGS 35% Crit damage boost
trinket: Sheltering, Repair Lore 27, Repair 22, Quality Cha 4
Cloak: L Magewright, Charisma 21, Wizardry 453, Enchantment Focus 9, Ins Enchant Focus 5
Belt: L Direbear Belt, Ins Shelt 27, Rough Hide 5, Natural Armor 21
Ring: L Ring of Summer's Heat: Fire Lore 31, Combust 214, Radiance Lore 31, Radiance 214
Gloves: Princes Gauntlets Con 22, Lifeblood of the Prince, Quality Res 4, Quality Shelt 15
Boots: L Deepsnow Boots, Ins Con 10, Quality Con 5, Fom, Fort 17
Ring: L Shattered Onyx, Ins Char 10, Profane Spell Focus 2, Ins Res 8, Ins Dodge 10
Bracers: L Aetherband, Spell Pen 9, Ins Spell Pen 5, Mag Eff 10%, Shield 21
Armor: L Enigma Core, Fort 214, Phys Shelt 54, Exc Spell Lore 10, Exc spellpower 20

L Queen Sceptre: Potency 154, Ins Potency 77, Spellsight 22, Ins Spellsight 11
Offhand: LGS Salt for mobs, LGS Ash for bosses

Sub-optimal for an R10 group? Probably, but for soloing R6 I prefer going in with 300 PRR, 200 MRR, 90+ saves - and even the 200 armor class seems like it results in me getting hit less. R10 in a full group is easy enough anyhow that I don't feel like I am hurting the group, but soloing R6 I still have to play more careful and need decent defenses.

I want to switch to feywild dreamer docent + magewright + chained elemental + 4 piece winter + 2 summer but it's working well for me now so I haven't pushed it.

Someone asked about new setup so I am going to post it here. With old setup I also swapped legendary standard issue sigil + EE skyvault shield for defenses when I needed it more than dps. this setup gave me 100+ saves, some more prr/mrr and tower shield defenses (DR + spell damage mitigation). I like this old setup alot for soloing R6 and might keep it in inventory and swap entire gear sets for some quests where I need it.

New Setup for higher dps

goggles: L Magewright Goggles: Int 21, Spell Pen 9, Illusion Focus 9, Ins Illusion Focus 5, Deathblock Augment, Petrification Immunity Augment
helm: L Crown of Snow, Ceruleaen Wave, Fire Shield (Cold), Spell focus mastery 7, Ins Spell Focus Mastery 4, Globe of Imperial Blood Augment
neck: Legendary Necklace of Bottled Sunlight: Charisma 21, Feather Fall Augment
trinket: Sheltering, Force Lore 27, Repair 22, Quality Cha 4, Topaz of Greater Illusion Augment
Cloak: L Magewright, Ins Char 10, Wizardry 453, Enchantment Focus 9, Ins Enchant Focus 5, False Life 48 Augment, Draconic Soul Gem Augment
Belt: L Direbear Belt, Ins Shelt 27, Rough Hide 5, Natural Armor 21, Topaz of Greater Enchantment Augment
Ring: Bound Elemental Ring of Flames: Fire Lore 32, Combustion 219, Alchemical Fire Attunement, Arcane Augmentation IX, Topaz of Greater Evocation Augment, Festive Charisma 2 Augment
Gloves: Princes Gauntlets Con 22, Lifeblood of the Prince, Quality Res 4, Quality Shelt 15, Essence of Epic Littany of the Dead, Ins Int 5 Augment, Dex 12 Augment
Boots: L Deepsnow Boots, Ins Con 10, Quality Con 5, Fom, Fort 17, Fear Immunity Augment (or 20% threat reduction augment)
Ring: Bound Elemental Ring of Acid: Acid Lore 32, Corrosion 219, Alchemical Earth Attunement, Spell Pen 9, Spell Agility 15 Augment, Soundproof Augment
Bracers: LGS Enh, Ins, Qualiity Bonuses to Critical Damage (35% Total)
Armor: L Glass Heart, Fortification 214, Phys Sheltering 54, Exc Spell Lore 15, Exc Univ Spellpower 30, Resistance 11 Augment
Quiver: Epic Quiver of Alacrity, Striding 30%, Ins bonus to Spell Threat Reduction 15

L Queen Sceptre: Potency 154, Ins Potency 77, Ins Spellsight 11, Ins Dex 5 Augment
Offhand: LGS Salt for mobs, LGS Ash for bosses

Swap to Legendary Cold Iron Bracers and EE Skyvault Shield for extra defenses if needed (boosts AC, Saves, DR, 50% magical damage mitigation)

Weapon Filigree
Otto: Charisma Rare
Otto: Spell Failure Reduction Rare
Otto: Constitution Rare
Otto: Spellpower Rare
Eye: Charisma Rare
Eye: MRR Rare
Eye: Spellpower Rare
Sanctified Fervor/Reverberation: Charisma +2 Rare
To Hell and Back/Embraced by Light: Charisma +2 Rare

Gloves Filigree
Eye: Charisma Rare
Sanctified Fervor/Reverberation: Charisma +2 Rare
To Hell and Back/Embraced by Light: Charisma +2 Rare

Crit Chance Fire
Magical Training: 5
Empyrean Magic: 10
Enhancement Bonus: 32
Artifact bonus: 10
Exceptional Bonus: 15
Energy Criticals: 9
Fire Savant: 8
Total: 89

If grouping in a balanced group just swap tiefling for bladeforged and robe for armor and free up feat. This setup, sans empyrean magic works with any element - just swap the rings.

[janave]

New Setup for higher dps

If grouping in a balanced group just swap tiefling for bladeforged and robe for armor and free up feat. This setup, sans empyrean magic works with any element - just swap the rings.



This setup looks great for a Fire nuker, and also for playing raids.

Looks like a little skinny on DC:

- 2 Quality
- 2 Profane
- 2 Sacred
- 4? Scion
- 4 CHA From Race
- 2 CHA from Quality and Artifact
-------------------------------------

Only Meteor gets debuffs and damage on one cast, the rest of the Savants likely suffer with the low DCs.

Right now, still in Sharn loots, I get DC125 Evo in a public area without pots, and i still see a couple of saves on r4-5 Feywilds, not sure if I could be playing with -10DCs :(

[slarden]

This setup looks great for a Fire nuker, and also for playing raids.

Looks like a little skinny on DC:

- 2 Quality
- 2 Profane
- 2 Sacred
- 4? Scion
- 4 CHA From Race
- 2 CHA from Quality and Artifact
-------------------------------------

Only Meteor gets debuffs and damage on one cast, the rest of the Savants likely suffer with the low DCs.

Right now, still in Sharn loots, I get DC125 Evo in a public area without pots, and i still see a couple of saves on r4-5 Feywilds, not sure if I could be playing with -10DCs :(

It's a solo build and works well for me up to about R6 - beyond R6 I don't like to solo much. I don't find DC to be too much of a problem because SALT is so strong and one of the great things about meteor swarm is part of it has no save. DC is fine for majority of mobs using spell school specialist and spell school augmentation helps alot with overcoming saves. A typical sorc in R10 is taking scion of the plane of fire and usually giving up sacred bonus so it's down 7 DC from what a typical max DC nuking sorc will run on R10 (2 quality, 2 profane, 2 race, 1 from magewright vs esoteric - would be only 6 if magewright is fixed) but with significantly higher defenses. This is a trade-off I find very beneficial for soloing considering there is also a difference in saves between R6 and R10. I don't think nuking build in magister with a DC legendary feat is a bad build, but most run in draconic with scion of the plane of fire even for R10.

When soloing some old school techniques help alot to overcome saves. Solid Fog, crushing despair + greater color spray for cheap helplessness. If reflex save is high usually will save isn't super high. I can almost always make high reflex evasion mobs helpless if they aren't champs with immunity. I also slot necrotic ray (fort save rather than reflex) to use against single evasion enemies - works well for me even though I am only getting nullification from potency type items.

To your original post, prince's gauntlet supports me well for solo R6, but ymmv. There are always going to be some quests like legend of the lost locket that aren't good to solo, but most are fine.

[Bjond]

This right here. Set bonuses are actually balancing measures that allow people who didn't have access to Legendary Greensteel to level the playing field somewhat.

One of the supposed reasons for the belt nerf was that it blocked creation of new items. If those belts were a barrier to the devs, set bonuses are the great wall itself -- they lock up multiple slots at once.


New Setup for higher dps [..]

Thanks for posting; not planning on playing my arcane soon, but I've been thinking wizard next for it (for a while now) and that list gives me a nice starting point.

[mr420247]

The gloves are broken garbage they won't stack so meh

FVS wins there

[janave]

One of the supposed reasons for the belt nerf was that it blocked creation of new items. If those belts were a barrier to the devs, set bonuses are the great wall itself -- they lock up multiple slots at once.


Removing the epic level belts in vacuum solved nothing, we still have both gear and feats hard glued to nuker builds, now with even more "must slot" DCs to trying to compensate for the lack of enhancements vs saves in content.

We can use the raid ring sets, but then we are left with only the Necklace CHA Artifact, or give up the artifact on a class that has the least stat points and DCs in their main enhancement trees.

[Bjond]

Removing the epic level belts in vacuum solved nothing

Heh; 4/5 of my characters had obvious replacements, but none were casters. The one that did not: the sorcerer. Removed belt, no change in stats. Looked at possible belts. Uh, nothing good at all -- just duplicated lines. It's basically an empty pointless slot without an item to fill it now.

One reason for the belt nerf was supposedly to increase parity amongst all caster damage types, but it's actually made things worse. Instead of all elements having similar power, now the bump comes from lore with Fire, Align, & Negative winning that one and nothing for Cold, Elec, Acid, Poison, or Sonic.

The belt nerf is just one more in a long string of half-done jobs that made the problem they tried to solve worse, not better.