Severlin: Keep the +15% vip xp bonus permanently

[devashta]

The VIP XP bonus was nerfed to 10% some time back. The reason given was, there is enough XP to go to level 20. But now we have level cap to 30, (millions & billions of) reaper XP and upcoming level 40.
Sev - you talked about finding value to VIPs in the last Q&A - this week's +15 VIP XP bonus is a small step in that direction. We have supported you through a pandemic, helped you find a good deal with EG7 and I am sure you will receive a lot of investment due to us. This doesn't cost you much, keeps us happy and I might even think about starting the dreaded TR cycle!

Please please keep this +15 % VIP XP bonus permanently.

[Gniewomir]

we helped you find a good deal with eg7


lmao

[Wizard1406]

Yes 10% permanent bonus is low compared to other MMOs (usually 20% AFAIR)

Either improve "always on" bonus or improve the VIP grouping bonus per player. 1% per person in party is just very low and I think for some people that doesn't outweigh the hassle of putting up a LFM.

[Gniewomir]

Yes 10% permanent bonus is low compared to other MMOs (usually 20% AFAIR)

And where is this "usually 20%" data coming from?

I just googled first mmo i thought about (Elder Scrolls online) and it's... 10%.

Googled gw2: 0% (or at least nothing about it at https://help.guildwars2.com/hc/en-us/articles/230165307-Guild-Wars-2-Account-Types-Free-Core-HoT-PoF

Old school Runescape: 0% https://www.runescape.com/members_benefits\

SWOTR 0% https://help.ea.com/en-us/help/star-wars/star-wars-the-old-republic/swtor-free-to-play-faqs/

Neverwinter: 10% https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/9492533-neverwinter%25253A-introducing-the-vip-program%2521

Too lazy to check out other games.

Can't say i care much or/and have anything against changing vip xp bonus, in fact ddo is different than most games cause you do not cap once, but spam reincarnations 100 times (so it could use bigger bonus than other games), i'm just trying to investigate where your "usually 20%" is coming from.:P

[Marshal_Lannes]

signed

[Chai]

And where is this "usually 20%" data coming from?

I just googled first mmo i thought about (Elder Scrolls online) and it's... 10%.

Googled gw2: 0% (or at least nothing about it at https://help.guildwars2.com/hc/en-us/articles/230165307-Guild-Wars-2-Account-Types-Free-Core-HoT-PoF

Old school Runescape: 0% https://www.runescape.com/members_benefits\

SWOTR 0% https://help.ea.com/en-us/help/star-wars/star-wars-the-old-republic/swtor-free-to-play-faqs/

Neverwinter: 10% https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/9492533-neverwinter%25253A-introducing-the-vip-program%2521

Too lazy to check out other games.

Can't say i care much or/and have anything against changing vip xp bonus, in fact ddo is different than most games cause you do not cap once, but spam reincarnations 100 times (so it could use bigger bonus than other games), i'm just trying to investigate where your "usually 20%" is coming from.:P

So you went to other MMO front pages and didnt see anything? Not looking hard enough.

In gw2 its a celebration boost for 100% Xp increase through festivals. Last one was Lunar New Year. This stack with all other Xp boosts.

They also do events where Xp and reward track get boosted 100% which stacks with everything else.

You get free Xp boost items just for logging in daily, once per week.

You get 24 hour 100% Xp boost for character birthdays (good way to encourage alts, another ForumDDO™ hot topic) I have 61 of these piled up currently as it increases each year. Last character birthday I received 2 of these per character on the account.

And the game doesnt even have subscription. In all modes other than PVE the leveling is limitless -aka theres no cap rank. There are people in WvW and PvP with 12K ranks. You just keep earning rewards for gaining Xp.

[Gniewomir]

So you went to other MMO front pages and didnt see anything? Not looking hard enough.

In gw2 its a celebration boost for 100% Xp increase through festivals. Last one was Lunar New Year. This stack with all other Xp boosts.

They also do events where Xp and reward track get boosted 100% which stacks with everything else.

You get free Xp boost items just for logging in daily, once per week.

You get 24 hour 100% Xp boost for character birthdays (good way to encourage alts, another ForumDDO™ hot topic)

Nope, i went to this thread and read what it's about. Might be surprise, but it's not about festivals bonuses, nor about birthday bonuses, but about static premium/vip xp bonus. Huge surprise again: none of those links is to front page, but to sections "what are premium/vip benefists/perks" and (surprise again) those pages usually are meant to list premium/vip bonuses, including xp ones.

[Chai]

Nope, i went to this thread and read what it's about. Might be surprise, but it's not about festivals bonuses, nor about birthday bonuses, but about static premium/vip xp bonus. Huge surprise again: none of those links is to front page, but to sections "what are premium/vip benefists/perks" and (surprise again) those pages usually are meant to list premium/vip bonuses, including xp ones.

You claim your position is about paid subscription, and you linked to gw2, a game that doesnt use paid subscription. I pointed out in a game where people dont even sub to play, it rains free xp bonuses compared to this game where they tether some of it to subscription and tether all of it to paying money into the system.

GW1&2 dispelled alot of the myths forumites in other games claim still stand, including but not limited to the Xp myth often incorrectly posited by ForumDDO™. They reward people for PLAYING the game they already paid for. Logging in once per day gets you more XP bonuses in that game than subscribing to this one does. And once again, cant play the "you only cap once" card here, as in that game, all modes except for PVE have limitless leveling.

[Gniewomir]

Mere semantics and nothing more. You claim your position is about paid subscription, and you linked to gw2, a game that doesnt use paid subscription. I pointed out in a game where people dont even sub to play, it rains free xp bonuses compared to this game where they tether some of it to subscription and tether all of it to paying money into the system.

GW1&2 dispelled alot of the myths forumites in other games claim still stand, including but not limited to the Xp myth often incorrectly posited by ForumDDO™. They reward people for PLAYING the game they already paid for. Logging in once per day gets you more XP bonuses in that game than subscribing to this one does. And once again, cant play the "you only cap once" card here, as in that game, all modes except for PVE have limitless leveling.

Always nice to accuse of semantics and at the same time pretty much do offtopic, huh?

You can point whatever you want, if it's irrelevant to discussed matter, then it's only waste of space. Noone here was referring to free festival/birthday/whatever bonuses or any kind of various perks. Let me repeat again: this thread, according to op, is about static vip xp bonus. You can mention as many various, not related to the matter bonuses as you want, i still consider it offtopic. I'd like to remind you that in my first post i wasn't even judging the main idea, i wasn't discussing whole xp/lvling systems, i was not talking about various methods to boost gained xp, i just asked where is the data about static 20% vip xp in majority of games is coming from, cause just by quickly googling the titles (almost) everyone knows shows no support to such statement.

I agree gw could be bad example, i never played it, like i said above i just briefly googled it. The link i provided clearly mentions f2p account and different types of accounts (with different perks for aquiring them), so maybe a bit hastily i assumed those extra accounts are equivalent to a vip (in ddo) and vip here is indeed a mere semantic, cause despite the naming we're still discussing exactly the same thing: additional payment for additional, static xp bonus (and other thingies). If gw is not providing any additional static bonus for payments (subsription based or not) it stills supports my question: where is 20% data coming from? Subscription or not, gw seems to be providig various types of accounts and none of them mentions static 20% xp bonus. And it does not change the fact that none of the other games i mentioned provides such 20% bonus (while i believe all of them except gw do have ddovip alike types of accounts).

Again: i cant speak for gw, but majority of games does use level cap. Majority of games does have progression limits. The ridicule of reaching highest lvl in ddo in 2 days is a matter irrelevant to the fact that in majority of games you do not cap character and then repeat it 100 times from lvl 1 to max past lifes. Like i already said, i neither care nor i'm going to judge suggestion made in original post, but you simply can't deny the fact that reincarnation system is unique to ddo and cause of hundreds of available releveling (past lifes) it makes sense to make xp bonuses higher than those in games where you max character only once (and just a special reminder for you: i sincerely don't care about it, i'm not planning to do advanced calculations about how much times it takes to max/cap/whatever character based on varous systems in various games, i'm just admitting the difference between systems).

[boredGamer]

Yes 10% permanent bonus is low compared to other MMOs (usually 20% AFAIR)

Either improve "always on" bonus or improve the VIP grouping bonus per player. 1% per person in party is just very low and I think for some people that doesn't outweigh the hassle of putting up a LFM.

The grouping bonus still seems like the obvious thing to do. Grouping bonus weekends have LFM's popping off the page. Bumping vip bonus to ?half? grouping bonus weekend would be what I would do. 5% per member, 25% total with full party, sort of range.

I would certainly put up more LFM's - as wiz said, I get lazy and don't deal with the hassle sometimes.

[Cavalier]

In the Wednesday chat with Sev, they mentionned wanting to give VIP more value. I would say that making the VIP bonus a flat +20% or 25% instead of the current 5% would be a move in the right direction towards rewarding VIP subscribers.

I disagree with it being tied to group size however. While it can lead to a few more groups in the prime time hours, not everyone plays primetime and you would be indirectly "punishing" people for not being on when the bulk of people are playing. I'm in EST and past 10:30 PM, I see a lot less groups, sometimes less than 3 or 4.....to the point where it is faster to solo through things. At least with a flat bonus to the VIP itself instead of tied to the group size, this reduces the problem of soling where you are gaining XP slower due to taking longer to complete quests.

[boredGamer]

I disagree with it being tied to group size however. While it can lead to a few more groups in the prime time hours, not everyone plays primetime and you would be indirectly "punishing" people for not being on when the bulk of people are playing. I'm in EST and past 10:30 PM, I see a lot less groups, sometimes less than 3 or 4.....to the point where it is faster to solo through things. .

Know what would help grouping past 10:30pm EST? Bonus to grouping. Off-hours extra bonus to grouping if it really is a problem. Know what would keep it the same? Keeping it the same.

Although that's 8:30PM my time, I don't have problems grouping until at least 11 or 11:30 PM MT.

[devashta]

lmao

Nothing to be laughed at. Number of VIP users were highlighted so much and in IT, subscription based services are the metric everyone's looking for nowadays.

[Wizard1406]

And where is this "usually 20%" data coming from?


Unless it has changed since Dez 2019 https://www.reddit.com/r/swtor/wiki/f2p

VIP : 20 % more xp after lvl 20 and can use rested xp (double kill xp after you have not played for a while), 20% discounted vendor prices, 20% more credit gain (= gold/platinum and SWTOR has useful and active credit AH), 20% more valor (pvp experience/ranking system)

So 20% bonus for various things.

The main draw for subscription in SWTOR is endgame though, can't raid without VIP, PVP entry only a couple of times per week, gain endgame gear much slower.


Improvements to DDO subscription could be higher numerical bonuses or more convenience (but the most important, a better storage system is a challenge to code in the engine)



Know what would help grouping past 10:30pm EST? Bonus to grouping. Off-hours extra bonus to grouping if it really is a problem. Know what would keep it the same? Keeping it the same.

Although that's 8:30PM my time, I don't have problems grouping until at least 11 or 11:30 PM MT.

Yes good idea, make a grouping bonus depending on current server population.

Roughly:
1am EST - 9am EST (aka dead time as every server has American population focus) biggest bonus
9am EST to 2pm (aka US off time) a bit smaller bonus etc.

Would help shift workers and European, Asian, OZ/NZ players (and not hurt US prime time players either)

[Talam]

The VIP XP bonus was nerfed to 10% some time back. The reason given was, there is enough XP to go to level 20. But now we have level cap to 30, (millions & billions of) reaper XP and upcoming level 40.
Sev - you talked about finding value to VIPs in the last Q&A - this week's +15 VIP XP bonus is a small step in that direction. We have supported you through a pandemic, helped you find a good deal with EG7 and I am sure you will receive a lot of investment due to us. This doesn't cost you much, keeps us happy and I might even think about starting the dreaded TR cycle!

Please please keep this +15 % VIP XP bonus permanently.

/signed

[grudgebear]

The VIP XP bonus was nerfed to 10% some time back. The reason given was, there is enough XP to go to level 20. But now we have level cap to 30, (millions & billions of) reaper XP and upcoming level 40.
Sev - you talked about finding value to VIPs in the last Q&A - this week's +15 VIP XP bonus is a small step in that direction. We have supported you through a pandemic, helped you find a good deal with EG7 and I am sure you will receive a lot of investment due to us. This doesn't cost you much, keeps us happy and I might even think about starting the dreaded TR cycle!

Please please keep this +15 % VIP XP bonus permanently.

Agree.

If not for this boost I most likely won't be playing as much this weekend at all.

VIP NEED MORE XP BONUS

[Chai]

Always nice to accuse of semantics and at the same time pretty much do offtopic, huh?

You can point whatever you want, if it's irrelevant to discussed matter, then it's only waste of space. Noone here was referring to free festival/birthday/whatever bonuses or any kind of various perks. Let me repeat again: this thread, according to op, is about static vip xp bonus. You can mention as many various, not related to the matter bonuses as you want, i still consider it offtopic. I'd like to remind you that in my first post i wasn't even judging the main idea, i wasn't discussing whole xp/lvling systems, i was not talking about various methods to boost gained xp, i just asked where is the data about static 20% vip xp in majority of games is coming from, cause just by quickly googling the titles (almost) everyone knows shows no support to such statement.

I agree gw could be bad example, i never played it, like i said above i just briefly googled it. The link i provided clearly mentions f2p account and different types of accounts (with different perks for aquiring them), so maybe a bit hastily i assumed those extra accounts are equivalent to a vip (in ddo) and vip here is indeed a mere semantic, cause despite the naming we're still discussing exactly the same thing: additional payment for additional, static xp bonus (and other thingies). If gw is not providing any additional static bonus for payments (subsription based or not) it stills supports my question: where is 20% data coming from? Subscription or not, gw seems to be providig various types of accounts and none of them mentions static 20% xp bonus. And it does not change the fact that none of the other games i mentioned provides such 20% bonus (while i believe all of them except gw do have ddovip alike types of accounts).

Again: i cant speak for gw, but majority of games does use level cap. Majority of games does have progression limits. The ridicule of reaching highest lvl in ddo in 2 days is a matter irrelevant to the fact that in majority of games you do not cap character and then repeat it 100 times from lvl 1 to max past lifes. Like i already said, i neither care nor i'm going to judge suggestion made in original post, but you simply can't deny the fact that reincarnation system is unique to ddo and cause of hundreds of available releveling (past lifes) it makes sense to make xp bonuses higher than those in games where you max character only once (and just a special reminder for you: i sincerely don't care about it, i'm not planning to do advanced calculations about how much times it takes to max/cap/whatever character based on varous systems in various games, i'm just admitting the difference between systems).

A declararion of irrleevant is backpedaling at this point. The evidence is in and its not in your favor - in any of those games. NW is similar to gw2 in how they deal with XP increases, and OSRS literally had non-p2w servers for folks who would rather play in a level playing field.

However, addressing your claim of irrelevant as it is YOUR claim. The claim was gw2 subscription doesnt offer free XP increase. Linking gw2 as you did was misleading at best. There is no subscription in gw2. They GIVE those benefits away for PLAYING the game.

My point is no subscription required game YOU LINKED has far more FREE xp benefits they do not require a player to pay for.

Myth dispelled.


Again: i cant speak for gw, but majority of games does use level cap. Majority of games does have progression limits.

comparing DDO to those games doesnt suffice because they dont use systems where starting over and leveling 1-cap = an increase in character power. Once a player says goodbye to the newbie zone they are not leveling there ever again on the same character.

Youre comparing the indy 500 to a drag race, to make a point that is not supported by either, to justify denying a benefit to all players.
---------------------------------------
Edit:

The easiest most simplified way to understand the refutation of the claim here is:

Claim: Those other games named don't give those benefits to subscribers.
Refutation: They give better benefits to players who consistently log in. so its not tethered to a subscription.

This makes the claim itself misleading, as its attempting to imply those games do not have those benefits at all. The reality is most other games have moved beyond this model of charging a-la-carte for every QoL change. The MMO industry in 1999-2008 is not the MMO industry in 2021.

[Arkat]

The VIP XP bonus was nerfed to 10% some time back. The reason given was, there is enough XP to go to level 20. But now we have level cap to 30, (millions & billions of) reaper XP and upcoming level 40.
Sev - you talked about finding value to VIPs in the last Q&A - this week's +15 VIP XP bonus is a small step in that direction. We have supported you through a pandemic, helped you find a good deal with EG7 and I am sure you will receive a lot of investment due to us. This doesn't cost you much, keeps us happy and I might even think about starting the dreaded TR cycle!

Please please keep this +15 % VIP XP bonus permanently.

This would DEFINITELY add real value to a VIP subscription.

[Cavalier]

Unless it has changed since Dez 2019 https://www.reddit.com/r/swtor/wiki/f2p


Yes good idea, make a grouping bonus depending on current server population.

Roughly:
1am EST - 9am EST (aka dead time as every server has American population focus) biggest bonus
9am EST to 2pm (aka US off time) a bit smaller bonus etc.

Would help shift workers and European, Asian, OZ/NZ players (and not hurt US prime time players either)

No, that's a bad idea.

The fact that there are less groups after a certain time will not increase because you get a bigger group bonus.

Anytime that you make a bonus dependant on OTHERS, you are going to cause an inequality, be it on purpose or simply through circumstances. If I am Level 26, seeing 2 groups doing R1 Heroic GH quests, one VoN 5/6 on R1 for Lvl 20-25 and a few people farming Legendary sharn (28-30 advertised) does nothing for me.

Make the bonus a flat bonus to every VIP. That way, it is fair across the board, does not depend on others and provides flexibility. I know this is a MMO, and the goal of an MMO is group play, but the reality of this MMO is that playing solo/duo is a common thing for various reasons. Until we get a mega server to combine the entire player base into one dysfunctional family, making any bonus a group based one will simply be unfair.

[boredGamer]

No, that's a bad idea.

The fact that there are less groups after a certain time will not increase because you get a bigger group bonus.

Anytime that you make a bonus dependant on OTHERS, you are going to cause an inequality, be it on purpose or simply through circumstances. If I am Level 26, seeing 2 groups doing R1 Heroic GH quests, one VoN 5/6 on R1 for Lvl 20-25 and a few people farming Legendary sharn (28-30 advertised) does nothing for me.

Make the bonus a flat bonus to every VIP. That way, it is fair across the board, does not depend on others and provides flexibility. I know this is a MMO, and the goal of an MMO is group play, but the reality of this MMO is that playing solo/duo is a common thing for various reasons. Until we get a mega server to combine the entire player base into one dysfunctional family, making any bonus a group based one will simply be unfair.

Group bonus weekend demolishes your point. Unless you're against grouping up in an MMO. Well, then, tough luck imo, take the penalty.

Even in your use case, you would just put up an LFM for what you want to do for the bonus 25% xp. And then there would be THREE lfm's up. Win for everyone.

[Cavalier]

Group bonus weekend demolishes your point. Unless you're against grouping up in an MMO. Well, then, tough luck imo, take the penalty.

Even in your use case, you would just put up an LFM for what you want to do for the bonus 25% xp. And then there would be THREE lfm's up. Win for everyone.

Key word in your response : WEEKEND

More people play during the weekend, so of course if there is a weekend bonus they there will be more LFMs up. That is simple math. Then there is the fact that those weekends benefit EVERYONE, not just VIPs.

This thread is not about how to get more people to group up, but how to add value to the VIP subscription. The answer is as stated....increase the 5% bonus to VIPs to 15%, 20% or even 25%.

[Oxarhamar]

No, that's a bad idea.

The fact that there are less groups after a certain time will not increase because you get a bigger group bonus.

Anytime that you make a bonus dependant on OTHERS, you are going to cause an inequality, be it on purpose or simply through circumstances. If I am Level 26, seeing 2 groups doing R1 Heroic GH quests, one VoN 5/6 on R1 for Lvl 20-25 and a few people farming Legendary sharn (28-30 advertised) does nothing for me.

Make the bonus a flat bonus to every VIP. That way, it is fair across the board, does not depend on others and provides flexibility. I know this is a MMO, and the goal of an MMO is group play, but the reality of this MMO is that playing solo/duo is a common thing for various reasons. Until we get a mega server to combine the entire player base into one dysfunctional family, making any bonus a group based one will simply be unfair.

Try using the Social panel to find your own group

Self imposed problems

Having more group bonus will help incourage grouping at all times not just the weekend even in a slow time if grouping has more xp than players will be more inclined to join.

instead of waiting for a group that will help you help yaself instead put up.an lfm.

[boredGamer]

Key word in your response : WEEKEND

More people play during the weekend, so of course if there is a weekend bonus they there will be more LFMs up. That is simple math. Then there is the fact that those weekends benefit EVERYONE, not just VIPs.

This thread is not about how to get more people to group up, but how to add value to the VIP subscription. The answer is as stated....increase the 5% bonus to VIPs to 15%, 20% or even 25%.

Well, compare it to non buddy bonus weekends. It's not the key word you think it is. Buddy bonus *anytime* is just buzzing (at least on Cannith). How do buddy bonuses benefit soloers? I'm unclear that that is true.

A bonus for VIP can *also* be a bonus that's good for the game*. I know, it's crazy!

*Where good for the game is more groups, more people playing together, etc. Again, if you think that's bad, I disagree.

[Smokewolf]

The VIP XP bonus was nerfed to 10% some time back. The reason given was, there is enough XP to go to level 20. But now we have level cap to 30, (millions & billions of) reaper XP and upcoming level 40.
Sev - you talked about finding value to VIPs in the last Q&A - this week's +15 VIP XP bonus is a small step in that direction. We have supported you through a pandemic, helped you find a good deal with EG7 and I am sure you will receive a lot of investment due to us. This doesn't cost you much, keeps us happy and I might even think about starting the dreaded TR cycle!

Please please keep this +15 % VIP XP bonus permanently.

Then the DDO store would sell fewer EXP pots... From a monetization point of view, I fail to see the logic in this.

[Arkat]

Then the DDO store would sell fewer EXP pots... From a monetization point of view, I fail to see the logic in this.

They'd sell MORE +50% EXP pots AND more Heroic Otto's Boxes.

[Dnarth]

I would probably re-sub if they did this. Not permanently just enough time to rolfstomp a ton of lives r1 to 20. Don't need the any epic lives. Then when that is done good bye vip. I say do it. Funny thing is there will still be people complaining they are behind.

[Cavalier]

They'd sell MORE +50% EXP pots AND more Heroic Otto's Boxes.

Was just about to type this.

[Smokewolf]

They'd sell MORE +50% EXP pots AND more Heroic Otto's Boxes.

Dream on... what your missing is that it’s all about slowing player progression to drive the store sales. The 15% bonus exists to take some of the sting out of the current round of nerfs, that’s all.

Why else would they push the Epic levels to 40, when the majority of the player base is not in favor of it? More grind = more store sales, enough said!

-Smoke

[Cavalier]

Well, compare it to non buddy bonus weekends. It's not the key word you think it is. Buddy bonus *anytime* is just buzzing (at least on Cannith). How do buddy bonuses benefit soloers? I'm unclear that that is true.

A bonus for VIP can *also* be a bonus that's good for the game*. I know, it's crazy!

*Where good for the game is more groups, more people playing together, etc. Again, if you think that's bad, I disagree.

If you and I had a face to face discussion about this, I think we'd both be very close to agreeing on several points.

I agree 100% that more groups = better for the game

More VIPs = better for the game is also something we both agree with.

To increase VIPs, you need to give them more for their money. If what you give them is dependant on others joining their group in order to get their bonus, then that variable return on your investment is not going to be as attractive as if you were to give them a flat out guaranteed amount regardless of how they group or don't group.

Which scenario do you think would be a greater benefit to VIPs and attract more people to become VIPs? Scenario A where VIPs get 5% per person in the group (so 25% in a 6 man group) or Scenario B where VIPs get a flat 20% bonus? Scenario B is more appealing for a number of reasons, and may lead to more groups since people are paying to play the game now, they want to get their money's worth, so more people are in-game playing which leads to more groups.

[boredGamer]

Which scenario do you think would be a greater benefit to VIPs and attract more people to become VIPs? Scenario A where VIPs get 5% per person in the group (so 25% in a 6 man group) or Scenario B where VIPs get a flat 20% bonus? Scenario B is more appealing for a number of reasons, and may lead to more groups since people are paying to play the game now, they want to get their money's worth, so more people are in-game playing which leads to more groups.

Sure - but if we're making stuff up - what is more attractive - flat 10% we have, plus 5% more per group member (my suggestion) - up to 35%, or a flat 20%? We could skew the made up scenario even more if we want. We could even give the VIP a choice which they would prefer!

Yes, we should also incentivize playing, and subscribing. But end of story, incentivizing grouping incentives grouping. We're not going to have a massive upswell in players 15 years into the game unless other very drastic pieces change outside of what we are discussing.

[Chai]

Dream on... what your missing is that it’s all about slowing player progression to drive the store sales. The 15% bonus exists to take some of the sting out of the current round of nerfs, that’s all.

Why else would they push the Epic levels to 40, when the majority of the player base is not in favor of it? More grind = more store sales, enough said!

-Smoke

Yep.

And the part that not being said here is those NOT in favor of this are NOT in the market audience who pays for faster progression. Even if it is what it appears, that most people are not in favor of this, those that are fine with it and pay for said accommodation are the ones being catered to. The rest get to deal with artificially inflated totals and added grind each time the majority of that market audience is caught up on the previous grind system.

When we ask for more XP bonus, their answer is already implemented. That bonus can be purchased from the store. Extra layer of tinfoil on my hat when I start discussing how these temporary bonuses are simply marketing for the XP potions. When that 15% (30% total for VIPs) goes away and people start feeling that difference, some will succumb to buying it back in the store just to gain the same XP totals as previous.

[Marshal_Lannes]

VIPs should level 3x as fast with XP boosts as non-VIPs. On a game built around TRs, this is an easy sell.

[Gniewomir]

Unless it has changed since Dez 2019 https://www.reddit.com/r/swtor/wiki/f2p

VIP : 20 % more xp after lvl 20 and can use rested xp (double kill xp after you have not played for a while), 20% discounted vendor prices, 20% more credit gain (= gold/platinum and SWTOR has useful and active credit AH), 20% more valor (pvp experience/ranking system)

So 20% bonus for various things.

Ok, i agree it seems i was wrong about swtor. My fault here is that i tried to stick to official data (swotr/ea pages) and none of them mentions xp bonus, even EA FAQ: SW:TOR Subscriber Rewards/ (https://help.ea.com/pl-pl/help/star-wars/star-wars-the-old-republic/swtor-subscriber-rewards/), while some unofficial ones do, so i guess thats legit data. Thats one game. For example ESO undeniably provides only 10% xp bonus. Thats 1:1. None of this matters, cause there're hundreds of mmo games. Hundreds. Thats why i asked where is data that mmo games usually provide 20% xp bonus is coming from. Even if you'll link 10 mmos which do provide 20% subscription/account type static xp bonus, i can link other 10 who provide lesser one. Thats why i asked about a source of your statement. Is it just your feeling cause you saw 20% bonus in one or two other games or it's something you can support with any wider research? I'm trying to give you an opportunity to prove that i was wrong doubting that your statement is more than just subjective, misdirecting opinion, cause broad data to support your point of view could convince me that 20% is indeed what majority of mmo games does and there's no reason why ddo shouldnt do the same.

PS: Lets not confuse it with other bonuses, cause this thread is not about making vip value higher through a different means, but strictly about xp bonus and you were the one claiming that majority of games do provide higher static xp bonus. Yes, some games might provide other 20% or even higher bonuses (other than xp one), ddo might provide other ones (like monster manuals or ability to open higher difficulties). Lets stick to a matter i was asking about.

[devashta]

VIPs should level 3x as fast with XP boosts as non-VIPs. On a game built around TRs, this is an easy sell.

Amen. I am from IT and I can tell you - world revolves in subscription now. No one is developing one-time boxed software. Heck, even Apple's revenue from services is 15% now.

This is a no-brainer. SSG: Make VIPs XP bonus to 25% and watch the numbers rise 10x.

[Gniewomir]

Amen. I am from IT and I can tell you - world revolves in subscription now. No one is developing one-time boxed software. Heck, even Apple's revenue from services is 15% now.

This is a no-brainer. SSG: Make VIPs XP bonus to 25% and watch the numbers rise 10x.

IT software is a different branch of industry than gaming. I suggest you reading about current trends in f2p games/subscription models, especially part about microtransactions. you might be suprised. I might be wrong, but if i remember correctly even recent ddo revenues published by eg7 shows that majority of money in ddo does not come from vip subscription.

[MaeveTuohy]

VIPs should level 3x as fast with XP boosts as non-VIPs. On a game built around TRs, this is an easy sell.

Until it isn't.

This looks to me like bringing forward demand. Once a player's only character is triple everything, what then?

Don't say alts. That would be the right answer, if they were properly supported through other mechanisms, but while rxp is tied to a single character, most players will use alts only for mules or farming, neither of which care for xp.

[Bunker]

Just extent the bonus till the 15th.

15% Heroic, Epic and VIP xp bonuses for the 15th Anniversary now through the 15th of March.

That just sounds better.

[Gniewomir]

The easiest most simplified way to understand the refutation of the claim here is:

Claim: Those other games named don't give those benefits to subscribers.
Refutation: They give better benefits to players who consistently log in. so its not tethered to a subscription.

This makes the claim itself misleading, as its attempting to imply those games do not have those benefits at all. The reality is most other games have moved beyond this model of charging a-la-carte for every QoL change. The MMO industry in 1999-2008 is not the MMO industry in 2021.

You're like the salesman from the joke: i came to ask which tv got the highest resolution, and you spend the next hour trying to convince me which washing machine manufacturer is the best. I'll do something i'm usualy avoiding and use caps lock, maybe your eys will finally start reading. I DID NOT COME HERE TO COMPARE WHICH GAME OFFERS MORE BENEFITS. I CAME HERE ONLY TO ASK THE PLAYER WHO SAID "MMO GAMES USUALLY PROVIDE 20% STATIC XP SUBSCRIPTION BONUS" WHERE IS HIS INFORMATION COMING FROM AND WHAT DATA DOES HE HAVE TU SUPPORT SUCH STATEMENT. Thats because i believe he saw it in one or two games and now he's trying to describe it like something what majority of games does, while in fact thats something that cant be proven (or can be proven not truth by using similar argumentation).

If you'd go through my ddo forum posting history (for the record: it's not something i would expect, in fact i would be the last to read all someone posting to make sure what he thinks) you could see that i'm the first to say ddo is stuck in middle ages and is ages away from modern advertising/marketing/sales. Thats something im not only not denying, thats something i'm actively saying in my posts. But thats not related to the reason why i posted in this thread and it's not related to the information i'm trying to get here, which might (btw) affect my opinion about the matter. And i'll repeat 3rd time, maybe this time you'll see. This thread is not about various ways of encouraging players to play/pay/whatever and my question was only about the data to support statement made by one of fellow forum users. You're talking about everything except the thing i came here to ask about.


A declararion of irrleevant is backpedaling at this point. The evidence is in and its not in your favor - in any of those games. NW is similar to gw2 in how they deal with XP increases, and OSRS literally had non-p2w servers for folks who would rather play in a level playing field.

However, addressing your claim of irrelevant as it is YOUR claim. The claim was gw2 subscription doesnt offer free XP increase. Linking gw2 as you did was misleading at best. There is no subscription in gw2. They GIVE those benefits away for PLAYING the game.

My point is no subscription required game YOU LINKED has far more FREE xp benefits they do not require a player to pay for.

Myth dispelled.

I already agreed gw was not good example and i explained why wrote wrongly about gw. What more are you expecting? Standing ovation? Flowers and box of chocolates? Kissing your hand? Saying that evidence is not in my favor in any of those games is just a intentional lie. Even first game i mentioned, ESO offers ESO plus subscription which gives you 10% xp more than non-subscription players which supports my claim: so far there's no data in this thread that proves majority of games is offerying 20% static xp bonus for buying subscription.



comparing DDO to those games doesnt suffice because they dont use systems where starting over and leveling 1-cap = an increase in character power. Once a player says goodbye to the newbie zone they are not leveling there ever again on the same character.

Youre comparing the indy 500 to a drag race, to make a point that is not supported by either, to justify denying a benefit to all players.
---------------------------------------

Irrelevant again. The fact that other games do not use systems with starting over and additional increase in character power is not connected with overal amounts of grind available in game. The fact that majority of games do not have reincarnations does not mean they have less/more grind. How much time do you think it takes average/casual player it max character in game (in majority of games it means reaching lvl cap + maxing few additional systems, in ddo it means reaching max lvl x156 past lifes and farming 25 mln rxp)? In my opinion ddo does have more grind to max character than average mmo game and it might justify improving available bonuses, but again: it's not the matter i came here to discuss in my original post.

And "justifying denying a benefits to all players"... Seriously mate, if you're not going to at least try to understand what i'm trying to say, then at least do not deceitfully imply something i'm definitely not saying.

[Wizard1406]

This is a no-brainer. SSG: Make VIPs XP bonus to 25% and watch the numbers rise 10x.

I wish :D

DDO has about 46k active players about 22k subscriptions, see https://massivelyop.com/2020/12/02/everything-we-just-learned-about-daybreak-thanks-to-eg7/

220k subscribers and DDO would no longer be a small niche game.

[devashta]

I wish :D

DDO has about 46k active players about 22k subscriptions, see https://massivelyop.com/2020/12/02/everything-we-just-learned-about-daybreak-thanks-to-eg7/

220k subscribers and DDO would no longer be a small niche game.

That data is already old, and the average population has dropped down below 3000 after the free quests code expired & people got bored waiting for the feywild raid last month.
With mini-expansions coming out and VIPs asked to pay for it, we are paying monthly cost in addition to EVERYTHING in-game. 25% XP boost is a good point to start with.
Sev: Please don't give this corporate talk of "We will find value for VIPs" ****, do the right thing, & increase the VIP XP bonus sky high.

[Wizard1406]

Yes, I think the removement of the free quest access (anything but expansions) and cheap first two expansions was a mistake.

IMHO a game with a steady stream of new and returning players and higher retention rate is healthier, than one that almost only relies on a few hardcore players. That requires the small playerbase spending a lot per player and requires high content prices and even promotes mega-grinds with shop "skip / make faster" items.