Help with Elf/ Ranger build

[Graceunderpressure]

Buddy has an Elf/ Ranger build currently L26 that I'm helping sort out. Like me, he's first lifer and first char ever played on DDO so took a bunch of feats that were not optimal. Looking to use his chunk of wood to correct some things.

After looking into a few things, and even though he has specialized in ranged attacks and uses them most of the time, it seems with all of the granted feats a ranger gets it's just obvious to also take advantage of TWF.

My first reaction was to go with 2 LS as that's what I would choose for my Pally, but this is no Pally, so some research seems to suggest either stick with the lighter favored Scimitar for simplicity and saved feats, or go to Rapier?

Anyway, seems a Dex based build with Con and some Wis would fit his build and I came up with these feats in the Char builder.

He is currently using the Epic Sting Bow. Looking for best Ranged build and then best options for his 2WF as a secondary DPS option.

I welcome any advise or experience as I am newbie and just taking a shot in the dark at the moment!

[Yamani]

For a starter ranged build I'd recommend this: Strimtom's Acid Arrow (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/469213-quot-Strimtom-s-Acid-Arrow-quot-Maximum-Bow-DPS-F2P-new-player-Friendly)

As for using melee and ranged it's best to choose one or the other.

[droid327]

Looking for best Ranged build and then best options for his 2WF as a secondary DPS option.



Build wise you dont want to invest anything in "secondary" DPS as you want to all-in on your main DPS. You can invest 100% in Bows and not be wasting any opportunity costs. Though bows right now are really bad, so even at 100% investment they wont be that great compared to...well, pretty much anything viable...

There are plenty of ranged bow builds you can find and use as a guide, but I'll just caution you to avoid the temptation to try and flex it to "get more" out of your TWF. Odds are you'll want to stay in archery even in melee range just because its better than your TWF. But if you do want to swap to TWF, you'll want something with Keen, since you wont be taking Imp Crit Slash or Pierce. Oathblade is a powerful and easily acquired option at L20 that will work just fine, and there are lots and lots of others you could grind for if you wanted more: https://ddowiki.com/page/Category:Keen_items and https://ddowiki.com/page/Category:Impact_items

[Graceunderpressure]

Was looking at this build and wondering if the DPS he claims could possibly be true? Av of 5500dps and crits as high as 30k+!?

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/508035-Rich%E2%80%99s-Ranged-Ranger-(Or-as-no-one-calls-it-RRR)

Regardless, as I looked through that build, and with the understanding that Rangers already get all the TWF feats granted, I could see feats that could easily be swapped out for more TWF dps.

I should prob add a little more info;

1. We don't run any reaper, just EN-EE

2. Not looking for the mathematically perfect build with total maxed dps as we are fairly casual players and all first char we've ever built on DDO so just looking to optimize what we have.

Could use some correction/ confirmation or clarification on following;

1. Even though most TWF builds I've looked at use same weapons (ie. dual Rapier/ Dual Scimitar ect) You could use any main hand weapon and it's only the off hand that would need Finesse or other Feats/ Enh's to upgrade from Scimitar?

2. If going with LS and Knights training, no need to take OTWF because wasted feat vs what it does?

Maybe I started this on the wrong foot. Since Ranged Elf/ Ranger uses Max Dex build, what would the most optimum TWF set-up be for when he is in close quarters and draws his swords?

[Graceunderpressure]

Build wise you dont want to invest anything in "secondary" DPS as you want to all-in on your main DPS. You can invest 100% in Bows and not be wasting any opportunity costs. Though bows right now are really bad, so even at 100% investment they wont be that great compared to...well, pretty much anything viable...

There are plenty of ranged bow builds you can find and use as a guide, but I'll just caution you to avoid the temptation to try and flex it to "get more" out of your TWF. Odds are you'll want to stay in archery even in melee range just because its better than your TWF. But if you do want to swap to TWF, you'll want something with Keen, since you wont be taking Imp Crit Slash or Pierce. Oathblade is a powerful and easily acquired option at L20 that will work just fine, and there are lots and lots of others you could grind for if you wanted more: https://ddowiki.com/page/Category:Keen_items and https://ddowiki.com/page/Category:Impact_items

TWF with Knights training and LS, specifically Oathbade was first thing I looked into. Unfortunately, Oathblade is Lawfully aligned and Elf in Neural.

[Mercureal]

So, some specific suggestions:

- Drop Magical Training: Rangers can get that from enhancements (and at Tier 1, I think)
- Drop Power Critical, it's not good at all
- Bulwark of Defence gives very low bonuses that probably won't be noticeable or needed on a Ranger
- Burst of Glacial Wrath likely won't be useful on a Ranger. The damage is low, and it will be hard to get the saves high enough for the freeze to land consistently.

All of that said, I don't have many good alternative feat suggestions. Precision would be a good choice, and maybe Blinding Speed in epic levels (though that's useless if you have regular access to Haste, and doesn't stack with speed items). More HP is always good, so Toughness/Epic Toughness?


TWF with Knights training and LS, specifically Oathbade was first thing I looked into. Unfortunately, Oathblade is Lawfully aligned and Elf in Neural.

On the Oathblade, I believe you can bypass the alignment restriction with the UMD skill, and there are lots of ways to boost that in the game now. Should be easy to hit the number needed to use it even on a Ranger, and UMD is a good skill to have anyway.

[droid327]

Regardless, as I looked through that build, and with the understanding that Rangers already get all the TWF feats granted, I could see feats that could easily be swapped out for more TWF dps.

2. Not looking for the mathematically perfect build with total maxed dps as we are fairly casual players and all first char we've ever built on DDO so just looking to optimize what we have.


Rangers get TWF for free which gives you the option, but its still not worth actually spending anything to improve it further. To borrow an analogy from sports, "there's only one ball". You can only attack with one weapon at a time. Having a bow at 80% of a pure archer and swords at 80% of a pure melee doesnt give you 160% effectiveness, it just means you're only going to be 80% as good as a pure build no matter what you do.

The whole idea of situational combat in DDO doesnt really exist in practice. There's no inherent benefit to melee at close quarters...a fully invested Bow build is better in melee range than a partially invested Melee build, so there's no point in splitting it. You're better served just investing fully in one, and just using the other with whatever Ranger gets for free when you might need to.



TWF with Knights training and LS, specifically Oathbade was first thing I looked into. Unfortunately, Oathblade is Lawfully aligned and Elf in Neural.

That has a UMD bypass of 26, which should be easily reachable by a L20+ character. UMD is something you should be maxing on every character, even if just for the utility of scrolls. 11 points + 4 GHero scroll + 3 Guild + 4 CHA aug + 3 Luck is already 25 before you even start adding in Epic Skills at L21+ or Tomes etc. Unfortunately you cant use UMD swap gear if you're planning on switching between bows and blades during combat, but it should be doable even without.

That being said, there are plenty of other Keen options, just that one's good and the easiest to farm. I wouldnt spend a feat on Knights Training for it, though, since that'd mean giving up a relevant Bow or survival-related feat.

[kanordog]

What your friend wants to play? Melee or ranged or party healer?






On the Oathblade, I believe you can bypass the alignment restriction with the UMD skill, and there are lots of ways to boost that in the game now. Should be easy to hit the number needed to use it even on a Ranger, and UMD is a good skill to have anyway.

It is not a light weapon, will use STR for hit&dmg. Absolutely no point in spending all the effort just to gimp a toon. The only way to make it half-gimped is to spend 18 AP in elf tree to get DEX to dmg (not to hit) and that is over 20% of AP just for that.

[Graceunderpressure]

So, some specific suggestions:

- Burst of Glacial Wrath likely won't be useful on a Ranger. The damage is low, and it will be hard to get the saves high enough for the freeze to land consistently.

I only took this for the 140SP, did the same thing for my Pally as I've found out that SP = survivability and 140sp + pool % increases is just better than any other feat options I could see.



All of that said, I don't have many good alternative feat suggestions. Precision would be a good choice, and maybe Blinding Speed in epic levels (though that's useless if you have regular access to Haste, and doesn't stack with speed items). More HP is always good, so Toughness/Epic Toughness?

Looking at Precision, but reading up and seems 50/50. (maybe reading to much and will always be 50/50 eventually? lol) He has Epic Sting bow, so can't benefit from Blinding speed. While Toughness at beginning levels seems worth it, 31hp and even 50 from ET seem pretty slack for 2 feats at Epic levels. Didn't take either with Pally and still has 1500hp at L26.




On the Oathblade, I believe you can bypass the alignment restriction with the UMD skill, and there are lots of ways to boost that in the game now. Should be easy to hit the number needed to use it even on a Ranger, and UMD is a good skill to have anyway.

Wasn't aware you could do this, will look into it as Oathblade has proven to be one of the Best LS's I've used up to L26. Even my T2 TF with 1st DB's and DE can't keep up to the crit range of Oathy!

[Graceunderpressure]

Since the trend here seems to be just build best Ranged Elf/ Ranger possible, I did another run with builder and this is as far as I got.

Without feeling I'm wasting Feats that aren't worth it (toughness/ET, SOR which many say isn't worth it) what other feats are there that compliment a ranged build?

I've found that proper healing amp allows plenty of efficient low sp healing without the need for any of the empower or quicken feats, never been a problem.

So not sure what is left other than TWF feats? (I didn't go past L28 because he's only L26 now)

[droid327]

I only took this for the 140SP, did the same thing for my Pally as I've found out that SP = survivability and 140sp + pool % increases is just better than any other feat options I could see.


Looking at Precision, but reading up and seems 50/50. (maybe reading to much and will always be 50/50 eventually? lol) He has Epic Sting bow, so can't benefit from Blinding speed. While Toughness at beginning levels seems worth it, 31hp and even 50 from ET seem pretty slack for 2 feats at Epic levels. Didn't take either with Pally and still has 1500hp at L26.

Wasn't aware you could do this, will look into it as Oathblade has proven to be one of the Best LS's I've used up to L26. Even my T2 TF with 1st DB's and DE can't keep up to the crit range of Oathy!

Mental Toughness grants up to +155 SP, and 1% crit to boot

Precision's 25% Fort Bypass is the big thing. Mobs have more Fort than you think and crit is a huge chunk of your total DPS

kanordog was right, I forgot DEX Rangers are restricted to Light weapons, and Oathblade is not able to use DEX, unfortunately.

[kanordog]

Mental Toughness grants up to +155 SP, and 1% crit to boot

Precision's 25% Fort Bypass is the big thing. Mobs have more Fort than you think and crit is a huge chunk of your total DPS

kanordog was right, I forgot DEX Rangers are restricted to Light weapons, and Oathblade is not able to use DEX, unfortunately.


Thank You, I like rangers.

[ned_ellis]

Dex based 20lvl longbow using ranger - as first life I'd agree to follow the Strimtom acid build posted above in the thread as it's a staple you can then tweak as desired.
Whilst waiting for the bow pass I guess I'd suggest :
Stat priority : Dex, Con, Wis (you say dps, not cc)
Skills : concentration, spellcraft, balance, sneak and Umd; open up tumble too
Feats : PBS, Rapid Shot, Imp.Crit, Precision, Empower Heal, Combat Archery, Overwhelming Crit, Holy Strike, Blinding Speed, Doubleshot, PLUS Dodge, Mobility and Shot on the Run (depending on future bow pass otherwise replace with whatever for now) AND whatever lvl 29 and 30 feats you want depending on your build; I like Falconry (dip or investment) so, for eg., Scion of Astral is a contender.
AP : DWS 41ap, Falconry 26ap, AA 13ap
ED : Shadowdancer or Shiradi for questing, Fury for raids