LFM Panel Overhaul

[False_Gods]

Adding some things to the LFM panel will go a long way to promote grouping.

The impression I get is that many people wouldn't mind grouping, but they don't want to enter into some complex dialogue with the group leader. At the same time there is a large gap in what many people expect from grouping. Many people assume most everyone is just looking for the fastest xp possible. Other people want a quality grouping experience. What ends up happening is many people just end up soloing.

A simple fix to this would be for group leaders to have an additional small section to fill out a few more things that will give prospective joiners a better idea of what they can expect when they join the group. These things can pop up when you mouse over the group in addition to what we currently see.

1) Minimum and Maximum Difficulty level: This is sometimes put in the notes. But it would be better to see exactly how many skulls the leader is willing to go to with a full group of experienced players. Often times I will see R2+ or something like that. But if I'm on an alchemist or sorceror I know that even on R3 or R4 its still going to be a mundane trivial experience for the rest of the group. I would need it to be R5. Is the leader willing to go to R5? Am I willing to join and open up a line of communication and basically start haggling and explaining all this to the leader? Or maybe I will just join and take my chances. But sadly what ends up happening is most people simply do not want to deal with it. The truth is they wouldn't mind joining, but they don't want to deal with the leader. More information in the LFM panel would solve this issue.

2) A slider for fast progression verses a quality experience for everyone: I am a person who has been around a long time and I usually join lone players/leaders just to try to help out and promote joining. But this is something that even annoys me to the point where I will stop being so generous in my joining: I join someone, even on a higher difficulty level and they are easily soloing the dungeon. I suggest we increase it a bit and they say no. I say why are you even posting an LFM if you can easily do the difficulty your doing alone and the people who join won't even get to contribute and are basically stuck following you through an empty dungeon?? And they say they assume people just want xp in the fastest way possible. Some people do want fast xp, but many people find this extremely rude. The result? Again, many people just stop grouping entirely.
A simple 1-10 slider from fast to quality experience for everyone who joins would tell people immediately what they can expect when they join the group, i.e. if the leader is wanting to accommodate everyone by increasing the difficulty or if people who join are simply supposed to follow along for xp (which sadly, many of the experienced players seem to expect)

3) New Player Accommodations: Another slider here would be a welcome addition. Sometimes, having a newer player join is so rare that it can be shocking to the point that when everyone is moving along quickly with no hitches, sometimes people can get easily annoyed or irritated when suddenly someone joins who needs directions or additional help getting to the group. Many players are helpful, some people don't care and figure if the person needs to learn they can solo and figure it out on their own, and sometimes a new player will just drop group without saying anything because they were unable to even find the group due to the complex mechanics in place. A simple 1-10 slider telling all players how willing the group will be in accommodating new players would also be helpful here.

4) Is it a dictatorship? Many players take group leadership quite seriously and enjoy stating exactly what the next quest will be. Anyone who doesn't want to run that can basically **** off. Other leaders would rather work with the group to figure out which quests the majority of the players need and would rather have people stay in group and be more flexible in choosing the next quests. This is an important one... as I would suggest that many people who would otherwise group, again, simply avoid grouping because they refuse to put themselves at the mercy of the leader. Again, we see a recurring theme here of looming 'leadership' that many people simply do not want to put themselves under. If people see that a leader is much more flexible in taking suggestions for the next quest etc, I bet many more people would join groups. This is not against leaders who enjoy dictating what is next and being full on leader of the group, but unfortunately it deters many people from grouping, because they don't want to enter into that kind of relationship. Again they can take their chances and join for one quest and see where it goes from there. But what is happening now is that many people just figure it is not worth the risk and simply do not join at all.

These few easy implementations would go a long way in promoting much more grouping. As someone who has been around much, much longer than most of the people here I figure I can help out by at least sharing my unique perspective in letting everyone know what is hindering grouping with the current system.

[FranOhmsford]

1) Minimum and Maximum Difficulty level: This is sometimes put in the notes. But it would be better to see exactly how many skulls the leader is willing to go to with a full group of experienced players. Often times I will see R2+ or something like that. But if I'm on an alchemist or sorceror I know that even on R3 or R4 its still going to be a mundane trivial experience for the rest of the group. I would need it to be R5. Is the leader willing to go to R5? Am I willing to join and open up a line of communication and basically start haggling and explaining all this to the leader? Or maybe I will just join and take my chances. But sadly what ends up happening is most people simply do not want to deal with it. The truth is they wouldn't mind joining, but they don't want to deal with the leader. More information in the LFM panel would solve this issue.

Personally I hate feeling like I'm PIKING which I would absolutely have to do in an R5 - Heck I got annoyed with a group the other day when out of nowhere they upped from R2 to R3.

If I put up an LFM I will put up the difficulty I WANT TO RUN

DO NOT ASK ME TO CHANGE THAT DIFFICULTY!

If I'm on a character that can't open Elite and I ask for an Elite Opener I'm NOT ASKING FOR R1! I'm Asking for Elite!

If I want to run R1 I'll state that in the LFM!


2) A slider for fast progression verses a quality experience for everyone: I am a person who has been around a long time and I usually join lone players/leaders just to try to help out and promote joining. But this is something that even annoys me to the point where I will stop being so generous in my joining: I join someone, even on a higher difficulty level and they are easily soloing the dungeon. I suggest we increase it a bit and they say no. I say why are you even posting an LFM if you can easily do the difficulty your doing alone and the people who join won't even get to contribute and are basically stuck following you through an empty dungeon?? And they say they assume people just want xp in the fastest way possible. Some people do want fast xp, but many people find this extremely rude. The result? Again, many people just stop grouping entirely.
A simple 1-10 slider from fast to quality experience for everyone who joins would tell people immediately what they can expect when they join the group, i.e. if the leader is wanting to accommodate everyone by increasing the difficulty or if people who join are simply supposed to follow along for xp (which sadly, many of the experienced players seem to expect)

I learnt long ago that I didn't want to WAIT AND HOPE for someone to join my LFM!

This was before Reaper difficulties and before Random buffed up mobs too!

I learnt that if I wanted to run Elite BB I had to be able to SOLO Elite BB!

Because people wouldn't join unless you were already IP!

And the problem with saying "quality experience" is that that is subjective! And dependant on MOOD at the time! Quality Experience at 2pm may be very different from Quality Experience at 8pm for instance!

Party Leaders that are absolutely determined to Zerg refuse to put that in the LFM which is unfortunate.

Flower Sniffing is a highly derogatory term - If I want to do "All Opts" I'll say at the start of the Quest but we all know some quests that isn't worth it and other quests it's very worth it so putting "All Opts" in an LFG where you're looking to run quest after quest after quest doesn't really work.

If I want Breakables bonuses, again I'll state on a quest by quest basis!

If I want Conquest DITTO!

But just because I want Traps done, Ransack and Conquest doesn't = I want to go SLOOOOW - If you can do em fast then Great :)


3) New Player Accommodations: Another slider here would be a welcome addition. Sometimes, having a newer player join is so rare that it can be shocking to the point that when everyone is moving along quickly with no hitches, sometimes people can get easily annoyed or irritated when suddenly someone joins who needs directions or additional help getting to the group. Many players are helpful, some people don't care and figure if the person needs to learn they can solo and figure it out on their own, and sometimes a new player will just drop group without saying anything because they were unable to even find the group due to the complex mechanics in place. A simple 1-10 slider telling all players how willing the group will be in accommodating new players would also be helpful here.

A Slider is probably the wrong way to do this, especially 1-10 as really there's only 3 possible alternatives...
- Happy to guide anyone so long as they're not taking the mick
- case by case basis
- Not willing to guide at all

If someone joins my LFM while I'm in Progress I'll welcome them, hit the share quest button, state I'm in progress and how far in, ask if they need directions and then keep an eye on the LFM to see where they are in relation to the quest.

It's usually pretty obvious if they're taking the mick or just lagged out {though with the party chat issues right now maybe not so much unfortunately so I'd make exception for that possibility too}.


4) Is it a dictatorship? Many players take group leadership quite seriously and enjoy stating exactly what the next quest will be. Anyone who doesn't want to run that can basically **** off. Other leaders would rather work with the group to figure out which quests the majority of the players need and would rather have people stay in group and be more flexible in choosing the next quests. This is an important one... as I would suggest that many people who would otherwise group, again, simply avoid grouping because they refuse to put themselves at the mercy of the leader. Again, we see a recurring theme here of looming 'leadership' that many people simply do not want to put themselves under. If people see that a leader is much more flexible in taking suggestions for the next quest etc, I bet many more people would join groups. This is not against leaders who enjoy dictating what is next and being full on leader of the group, but unfortunately it deters many people from grouping, because they don't want to enter into that kind of relationship. Again they can take their chances and join for one quest and see where it goes from there. But what is happening now is that many people just figure it is not worth the risk and simply do not join at all.

Funny how you consider wanting to run specific quests in YOUR LFM to be a "Dictatorship" - That's rather over the top don't you think?

If I put up a Gianthold LFM and show Feast or Famine as the first quest then chances are I'm gonna be running the whole thing - If you don't want to run the whole chain you're more than welcome to join for the quests you want to run and leave when we get to those you don't!

If we've finished Gianthold and I put in Party Chat "Archons?" then that question mark means I'm ASKING you if you want to stick around for the next chain?

I'm not DEMANDING you stick around!

I'm not ORDERING you to run Archons with me!

If you want to run Mired in Kobolds on the way then put in Party Chat "Can we run Mired first?" and the answer will probably be Yes because I've no problem with that!

The only thing is I don't want 1 or 2 other people in group to leave because they don't want to run Mired in Kobolds.

[archest]

Be nice to make it easer to create and update group without opening an instance.
The alphabetical order of selection when creating a LFM , leaves a lot to be desired.
simple when you create the instance but if your a 1st life toon and want an opener you have to open to update the lfm to update it with the quest information or
search though an alphabetical list and may be it will update with the quest name.

[Marshal_Lannes]

I'd actually just like them to fix the LFM panel so I don't have to do a who search every time I log in.

[Seph1roth5]

I'd actually just like them to fix the LFM panel so I don't have to do a who search every time I log in.



Definitely needs this fix.

Other than that, everything you mentioned can be fixed by the lfg description already there lol. Don't need to make it super complicated by adding in 50 things when there's already a field that lets you say whatever you want. Maybe just make it able to hold more characters?

The default for most quests is to do the opts that aren't out of the way if they're worth it. Everyone goes for the waterfall red-named in von3, everyone is going to pull the levers in the flame room in von 4. No one goes for the mimic room in subversion.

A lot of times people won't put anything in the text part of lfg, but that just means they have to answer maybe..1 or 2 q's, like chronoscope opts yes/no, or lost at sea jumping/ambush.

More people need to use that text option, it does kind of suck when I join a quest when they've chosen reaper diff in the lfg, but not said anything more and when I join they're doing r8-10. At that point I'll tell them my 5-reaper point character isn't ready for that level lol, and take off. I'll only pike if they're running a chain of quests and the lfg says something like "all welcome" or "come pike!" for the rxp.

[False_Gods]

I think the issue or misunderstanding that could be going on is that grouping currently is not being 'facilitated' properly. Because of it this it makes something of an excess 'exchange' required. When it comes to making that kind of interaction when one would really just kind of like to play the game and have a good time, many people understandably just stick to soloing or avoid grouping, or avoid grouping *more than they otherwise would*if it was made a little easier in terms of the information that is available up front before having to commit to putting their name on the line.

Hopefully its some food for thought at least, since it would be one of the easiest and I think, most productive updates they could look into making.

[grubenbrobrobroketv]

I'd actually just like them to fix the LFM panel so I don't have to do a who search every time I log in.

its either this or it takes longer to log in.
ill take loading the who tab while im grabbing ship buffs and selling before i start questing over a longer loading time.

[boredGamer]

No one goes for the mimic room in subversion.


What! I always run straight to the lever. Normally complete right about the time the rest of group completes the quest / other opt. It's decent xp if 1 of 6 goes and grabs it.

Also - in terms of original post - I would rather the LFM just auto-updates the quest / difficulty when you step into it. Most people don't mouse over the party and see exactly where everyone is. Seems a nice fast easy update.

In regards to the rest - just a bunch of communication - the text field already is pretty good if people use it right, although if you're new knowing exactly what keywords means what can be difficult. for me:
Pace: zerg, non-zerg, first time exploring
Difficulty: n/h/e/R, where r3+ normally means open to higher reaper (ie. the group is trying to get reaper points) - but r1 zerg just means zerging normal xp, so probably not that open to upping difficulty unless still completely demolishing everything.
Content: these days I just see "level 4's" or "saga x/y/z" - the pace is so fast no one is going to bother putting up the individual quest. Mouse over to see where people are (or implement first suggestion above)

I don't mind a "willing to help noobies" flag, but it just seems fraught with difficulty and will end up exactly back to just sending tells anyway, imo.

[False_Gods]

What! I always run straight to the lever. Normally complete right about the time the rest of group completes the quest / other opt. It's decent xp if 1 of 6 goes and grabs it.

Also - in terms of original post - I would rather the LFM just auto-updates the quest / difficulty when you step into it. Most people don't mouse over the party and see exactly where everyone is. Seems a nice fast easy update.

In regards to the rest - just a bunch of communication - the text field already is pretty good if people use it right, although if you're new knowing exactly what keywords means what can be difficult. for me:
Pace: zerg, non-zerg, first time exploring
Difficulty: n/h/e/R, where r3+ normally means open to higher reaper (ie. the group is trying to get reaper points) - but r1 zerg just means zerging normal xp, so probably not that open to upping difficulty unless still completely demolishing everything.
Content: these days I just see "level 4's" or "saga x/y/z" - the pace is so fast no one is going to bother putting up the individual quest. Mouse over to see where people are (or implement first suggestion above)

I don't mind a "willing to help noobies" flag, but it just seems fraught with difficulty and will end up exactly back to just sending tells anyway, imo.

Well its interesting you see it like that. I must be in the minority thinking that grouping could be much better, and would in turn, promote much more grouping. Right now I see a lot of single person posts but not a lot of people wanting to join them.

[boredGamer]

Well its interesting you see it like that. I must be in the minority thinking that grouping could be much better, and would in turn, promote much more grouping. Right now I see a lot of single person posts but not a lot of people wanting to join them.

When did I say grouping couldn't be much better?

Also, the reason single person posts tend to be the "most uptime on lfm" is they tend to be posts no one wants to join. If people want to join the group fills quickly and isn't posted again for 2 hours.

[Tsutti]

Something I'd like to see is a search mechanic for quests when setting up an lfm, I don't specify what quest I'm doing in the designated selection thing half the time because it's tedious to have to scroll through and change it every time we finish a quest. when I can just type the name of the next quest. Unfortunately, then people can't see how long we've been active in the quest. Putting the quests in alphabetical order instead of whatever random order they're in currently would help, another search bar would cause too much lag.


I'd actually just like them to fix the LFM panel so I don't have to do a who search every time I log in.

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSS THIS WOULD BE AMAZING


Maybe just make [the lfm description] able to hold more characters?

Had a number of times I wanted more character space... would be nice.

[Seph1roth5]

You can click on the headers at the top of the quest list when you're setting up a lfg to organize it alphabetically or by lv

[Tsutti]

You can click on the headers at the top of the quest list when you're setting up a lfg to organize it alphabetically or by lv

Mm thx, didn't know you could organize alphabetically. I assume that no longer retains level separations, but can't have everything I suppose. Might be sorta nice if quests with a heroic and epic version showed both levels too, instead of just the lowest level. It's not that hard to press P and check what epic level it is but it would be convenient to have both displayed in the LFM thingy, there isn't a toggle for that too is there?

[Gregen]

The speed slider is an interesting idea, however I think 10 options is excessive. 1-5 should be plenty to convey the speed. Something like "Role Play, Learning, Moderate, Fast, Rush" should be enough.

That alone would say a whole lot about the group your joining.

"Learning" immediately tells you that the player is either new and/or welcoming to new players. Especially if this is the default option because it may be missed by someone still learning the game. This could also be used for a new set of quests that's being run for the first time.
"Moderate" I would expect from someone who has learned the game, but either hasn't yet acquired a lot of good gear and wants to play with similar players, or they just simply don't mind or WANT a casual pace. Or it's high reaper and everyone is expected to play carefully. I would also expect this for difficult raids that people are trying to get items from.

The options after that say how experienced you're expected to be and how much you care about optionals and breakables. I would expect "Fast" to mean "everyone knows the drill, do what you want." This is the majority of groups I see in heroic pugs that have no information stated other than "r1" and the quests being run.
"Rush" would mean "I'm running a pot and want to get the most out of it, so finish as fast as possible." And of course "Role Play" is self-explanatory and opens an option for anyone that wants to play that way.

It doesn't necessarily need to be a slider, just a drop-down set of options. But if the setting is very clearly visible in the LFM panel, I think that has the potential to make all pugs in the game go much more smoothly.