What do you think about opening epic quests up to heroic characters?

[Tilomere]

Heya, just wondering your thoughts on opening up epic quests to heroic characters, say level 15+. Would also have to do away with the power leveling penalty for 15-19 like 20-30 to make it work.

Edit: Obviously it would come with "appropriate safegaurds" but what of the base idea itself?

[Bunker]

Is this so you can pike epic/legendary content even more than you do now. Asking for a friend.

Happy Holidays.

[mikarddo]

No. Epic xp is too high for heroic level chars. Far too much powerleveling potential.

[DerpDerply]

It looks like this is just another one of Tilomere's self-aggrandizing "hey look at me" threads.

And yet again, another mind-numbingly terrible idea.

[Discpsycho]

Absolutely not signed.

For many builds, gear changes very little between 15 and 29. Besides Sharn gear, the other major power boost is at 20 from a fully filligree'd sentient weapon and the 60-odd MP/RP from various EDs. Plenty of veteran players would be able to solo older content at EE or R1 at level 15 - eg, the full VON chain - and that pulls the player base away from quests in the 15-20 range that have slightly-less-than-optimal xp per minute.

Plus, it makes the power creep even more obvious

[jfgddo]

No

[Matuse]

Sure thing. Great idea. Just cut the XP to 1/8th what you get going in on epic.

[Tilomere]

For many builds, gear changes very little between 15 and 29. Plenty of veteran players would be able to solo older content at EE or R1 at level 15 - eg, the full VON chain - and that pulls the player base away from quests in the 15-20 range that have slightly-less-than-optimal xp per minute.

Plus, it makes the power creep even more obvious

I find gear changes as much as the player farms it out. One could build a 20-21 set around KoTB gear/weapons, a 26 set around crafted/old raid loot, and a 28 slavers set between 15 and 29.

The power creep is more obvious when that same veteran is in R1 heroics. Since they aren't incentivizing more than R1 for leveling, the other alternative to keep such a veteran in that 15-28 range engaged is to nuke everything from orbit. One or the other will happen, and if history says anything it will be the nuke from orbit approach with the ED pass.

I would be totally on board with standardized progression, allowing anyone to group with anyone else without penalty, and to play any build they want, weak or strong. Then you could just remove all the level lockouts in the game. D&D was never about power leveling, zerging, making only a few power builds, or putting artificial lockouts and barriers to grouping everywhere. Standardized progression would fix all of that.

Plus standardizing xp progression would push veterans into higher difficulty dungeons for the higher (standardized by R) reaper xp progression values to level in. Yea, that sounds great.

[kanordog]

Sure thing. Great idea. Just cut the XP to 1/8th what you get going in on epic.


I bet nobody would run epics with heroic characters. So, good idea.

[rabidfox]

Lets just allow anyone into any level quest and add in player scaling. So when my buddy wants help in harbor quests, all my higher level spells get locked out, my Stats/HP/SP/DCs/etc. all get scaled down massively and I'm able to hop in to give a hand without it being considered power leveling. Probably just as likely a suggestion to never see the light of day as the OP's...

[Bjond]

Heya, just wondering your thoughts on opening up epic quests to heroic characters, say level 15+. Would also have to do away with the power leveling penalty for 15-19 like 20-30 to make it work.

I dislike artificial barriers. So, I'd be all for it. I suspect a strong 15 could handle the lower epics fairly well and it would certainly make leveling in heroics more fun than the absurdity it is now. My leveling rate in heroics seems to be affected far more by run-speed than more typical concerns.

'Course, I usually go out of my way to avoid heroic levels as much as possible, too. So, my vote on this topic should likely carry much less weight that that of those who live there.

[arkonas]

no. one of the worst ideas ever.

[arkonas]

Lets just allow anyone into any level quest and add in player scaling. So when my buddy wants help in harbor quests, all my higher level spells get locked out, my Stats/HP/SP/DCs/etc. all get scaled down massively and I'm able to hop in to give a hand without it being considered power leveling. Probably just as likely a suggestion to never see the light of day as the OP's...

look into the latest video with Severlin. they talk about leadership idea.

[brian14]

No, for reasons already stated.

However, I think King's Forest and Underdark wilderness areas should be open to levels 18-19. Maybe no xp if a level 20+ is in the party.

[Sunnie]

However, I think King's Forest and Underdark wilderness areas should be open to levels 18-19. Maybe no xp if a level 20+ is in the party.
No. Those areas are tied to quests that are epic-only. I'd go the other way and say expand the upper level range of xp for ALL epic and legendary wildernesses to whatever the maximum level is. There's no reason to limit it.

[SirValentine]

No. Epic xp is too high for heroic level chars. Far too much powerleveling potential.

Just cut the XP to 1/8th what you get going in on epic.

Exactly. Epic XP is on a different scale than Heroic XP.




I think King's Forest and Underdark wilderness areas should be open to levels 18-19.


The XP for Epic wilderness areas is also not on the same scale as XP for Heroic wilderness areas. The formulas are based off level, but Epic wilderness are tripled versus Heroic. (E.g., getting to 7500 kills in a level 20 [Heroic] wilderness nets you a total of 220K XP, while in a level 21 [Epic] wilderness, gets you 684K XP.)

[droid327]

Heya, just wondering your thoughts on opening up epic quests to heroic characters, say level 15+, so I can just pike entire Iconic lives in LR zerg PUGs

:D

Like others have said, the different scaling for XP in Epics makes that idea a complete non-starter. Its 1.7M XP from 15-20...that's like a dozen Epic quests with FTB/BB and all that.

Note that we do already have one exception: ES Challenges let you play for Epic-level XP starting at 15. If you can handle L30 Normal tier enemies, you can get about 10K XP/min five-starring the challenges. Of course that's only one per challenge per life, but its a big one.

[caberonia]

Sure add an option on the entry box that makes it a raid for Non epic chars only. No one 20+ is allowed to enter and they can make it a raid party.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

The end game crowd will heavily protest against opening Epic quests for Heroic (inclusive lowering the levels) because they'll feel that something will be taken away from that.
They'll have no problems with taking something away from Heroic, though - read : opening Heroic quests for Epic chars.

On the one hand, people are not willing to give Epic quests away, on the other hand they want to take Heroic quests away.

[rabidfox]

look into the latest video with Severlin. they talk about leadership idea.

Yeah, I watched it when it live streamed; seems like a nice upgrade for grouping. I'd still love to have something like the old City of Heroes game with its sidekick/exemplar system where players were leveled down or up to near the level of the party leader, but leadership is at least a step in the right direction for helping newer players(/alts) keep up. I play with 2 real life friends in my guild and it's like the Great Conjunction in the Dark Crystal any time all 3 of us are actually at the same level bracket in our reincarnation train so a level scaling system is pipe dream of a solution (I know it's pretty much gonna never happen but a person can dream).

[Enoach]

When I read the title I was hoping this was a discussion on opening up a heroic level for the quests that only have Epic/Legendary quest levels.

I should have known better that it was someone looking to run Content at the Epic Level with their heroic character(s)

Even more, without penalty.

I vote that is a bad idea. I would be in favor of adding Heroic Level Options to quests that are set for Epic/Legendary only.

[Silverleafeon]

Past history shows very low level heroic toons entering

https://www.ddo.com/en/news/challenge-rules-extraplanar-mining-buying-time

on epic difficulty in order to gain double level jumps via a single run.


This was doable because the kobolds are doing most of the work, and a character only needs to survive long enough place torches to guide Kobolds towards enough crystals.

This meant characters leveled up to 3ish from other dungeons then jumped to 6/7 thru this process?


Afterwards, epic lockdowns started appearing?

[Tilomere]

Afterwards, epic lockdowns started appearing?

So normalize XP. Make it so a character levels once per hour of play or so, with whatever other safegaurds you want. Normalize RXP as well if you want, based on R. It isn't about power leveling, it is about having alternate environments to level in. Epic Wheloon, with the evasive shadar-kai, for example, would be problematic for an arcane nuker, which would allow other archtypes a chance to participate.

Obviously it would come with "appropriate safegaurds" but what of the base idea itself.

[Discpsycho]

It isn't about power leveling, it is about having alternate environments to level in. Epic Wheloon, with the evasive shadar-kai, for example, would be problematic for an arcane nuker, which would allow other archtypes a chance to participate.


Alternate environments...like Heroic Wheloon? If only there were a system that let you increase the difficulty of quests, possibly in return for another kind of XP...


So normalize XP. Make it so a character levels once per hour of play or so, with whatever other safegaurds you want. Normalize RXP as well if you want, based on R.


Oh good, a solution that can be easily implemented -_-

Developer time aside, remember how much kerfuffle there was last time they adjusted XP values a year or two ago? Changes to optional XP aside, most changes were on the order of 10-20%. I would love to see your solution to making VON 3 grant similar xp/min to "The Church and the Cult" or "Entering the Gate Chamber"

[LiveFast]

Heya, just wondering your thoughts on opening up epic quests to heroic characters, say level 15+. Would also have to do away with the power leveling penalty for 15-19 like 20-30 to make it work.

Edit: Obviously it would come with "appropriate safegaurds" but what of the base idea itself?

No. Why would I want to group with a lvl 15 in let's say Epic vons or wizking? There is more than enough different content to quickly take you from 15 to 20 now. IIRC I did it in 6 hours last TR. I wonder what is your motive for suggesting that. Had an idea that would work great for you?

[silinteresting]

I bet nobody would run epics with heroic characters. So, good idea.

I would love to have a crack at ravenloft with a lvl 15 character just to see if it can be done and at what level I could do it. You can keep the xp at a big fat zero, I just want the challenge.

Your friend sil

[rarothrock]

Since they aren't incentivizing more than R1 for leveling, the other alternative to keep such a veteran in that 15-28 range engaged is to nuke everything from orbit. One or the other will happen, and if history says anything it will be the nuke from orbit approach with the ED pass..

Wouldn't it just be better to ask them to incentivize running higher Reaper with regular XP?

[ggmarquez]

...thoughts on opening up epic quests to heroic characters, say level 15+.

it's a great idea. assuming you have every past life and just want to reset ftb... this would allow legendary rxp gains fresh from an ITR.

advantages include : no more tokens. good riddance really. no pointless 15-20 grind for no real benefit. gear set consolidation. and who needs otto's boxes when you can just zerg 15-30 on a single sov 2 soaking up all that rxp.

disadvantages : no more heart sales. no more otto's sales. less gear so loss of shared bank sales.

seems like it would be great for the players... but lousy for the devs.

[Matuse]

On the one hand, people are not willing to give Epic quests away, on the other hand they want to take Heroic quests away.

What are you even talking about?

[DerpDerply]

So normalize XP. Make it so a character levels once per hour of play or so, with whatever other safegaurds you want. Normalize RXP as well if you want, based on R. It isn't about power leveling, it is about having alternate environments to level in. Epic Wheloon, with the evasive shadar-kai, for example, would be problematic for an arcane nuker, which would allow other archtypes a chance to participate.

Obviously it would come with "appropriate safegaurds" but what of the base idea itself.

No. Absolutely not.

Get your super-sorry butt up to epics, become a grownup, and run with the grownups like you actually have grownup hair growing, and not that cheap spray on beard you wanna wear while pretending that you’re a grownup.

Oh, and get a life.

[DerpDerply]

Wouldn't it just be better to ask them to incentivize running higher Reaper with regular XP?

Don’t ask her questions like that because it’s only going to confuse her.

[Vish]

Which one are you?

Heroic wants to play in epic
Epic rules epic at 20
Legendary boxes to 30 and +20 hearts for flavor of the raid