Mass charm vs mass hold

[Suggestion]

Looking at the 2 is seems that Mass Charm Monster is better than Mass Hold Monster verses mobs if you don't have something that can nuke everyone. Mass Charm lasts longer, saves are less often and they will damage each other or the boss while you deal with the others, and it costs fewer SP.

Am I missing something? The saves are the same and both have spell resistance. Does Mass Charm target few mobs in the AOE?

I am ignoring the idea of many players of just killing everything with 1 or 2 AOE and am not looking for answers that assume this. I am assuming it will take am little time to deal with the rest of the mobs or you could use the help with the boss.

[SynalonEtuul]

The problem with charm is that it is heavily nerfed in epics and reapers to only last a few seconds. It can be good for softening up a big group, and for managing aggro. I can imagine it would also be helpful if you're soloing and have no reliable ways to kill trash.

If you're in a group and value completion time, mass hold will be preferable.

[ValariusK]

Charm doesn't play nice with anything that's scripted. Charmed mobs attack NPCs you're trying to escort and play hell with 'kill everything to advance' scripts. Thus you shouldn't use them unless you actually need to in order to survive, unless you're solo, with a static group, and/or know the quest really well and how it behaves with charm.

[droid327]

Charms also require a lot more micromanagement because you need to manually uncharm each mob in order to actually kill them

Also the damage they do is totally negligible. They wont hold aggro for you, they wont kill anything for you. They have thousands of HP to our hundreds...they do dozens of damage per attack, which is a chunk of life for us but is less than an itch for them. You'll do one attack and instantly jump to the top of their hate list. All it really lets you do is Diplomacy while solo, which meh.

Confuse is far more useful because it lets you kill them while they're aggro on each other. But of course there's very limited ways to confuse mobs. I'd trade Mass Charm for Mass Confuse if I could.

[Seph1roth5]

I haven't used charm/suggestion in a long time, but I remember using it in certain situations, such as entering some rooms in blockade buster, so you don't have piles of stuff charging you.

[Enoach]

Each has its place.

Holds are good if you/party are equipped to take advantage as well as reduce the incoming damage
Charms/Suggestions are good if you/party need distractions, or if you need to distract a group.

Yes, epic and reaper reduce the time of the effect as well as saves in between.

[caberonia]

Yes, epic and reaper reduce the time of the effect as well as saves in between.

This is the Major thing IMO.. if you plan on doing Epic Reapers then Hold > charm.
If your soloing lower difficulties then Charm isn't bad and you can charm mobs just to run past them since they are chained to their location.

[AbyssalMage]

The problem with charm is that it is heavily nerfed in epics and reapers to only last a few seconds. It can be good for softening up a big group, and for managing aggro. I can imagine it would also be helpful if you're soloing and have no reliable ways to kill trash.

If you're in a group and value completion time, mass hold will be preferable.
This ^
1) Players (i.e. Trolls) thought it was an exploit.
2) (I assume) Developers hate when we trivialize content.

They "Killed two birds with one stone" by nerfing Charm. Actually in every MMO that I have ever played "Charm" line spells are universally nerfed for the above two reasons. To the point I don't understand why developers even include the spell. Regardless, players discovered in Epic's it was SP efficient to charm things to death. Soon afterwards (within 3 months), it was nerfed.

[mr420247]

Charms got hella nerfed and casters got no dps fix instead sorcs got the dps nerfs for no reason at all no pass no gear that got hella nerfd too so awesome

No epic feats either takin toughnesses and stacking them now cuz there ain't anything that even works or will get fixed after what 5 10 years

[mr420247]

bogw broken mass frog broken useless hell ball hella nerfed broken useless and insanely expensive

or toughness toughness toughness great game so many choices