The time has come to un-nerf Mortal Fear (thanks Dull Dagger!)

[Fivetigers33]

Now that we have a new melee weapon with a no-save instakill that works in Legendary R10 that procs at a similar rate to Mortal Fear, I think it's time that the moratorium on Mortal Fear be lifted.

#endofanera

[kmoustakas]

Or let us deconstruct our old mortal fear

[acemonkey]

No way. How would they sell you a new mortal fear if they let you keep your old one? That makes no sense at all, almost like you expect honesty or fair treatment from SSG. This is a bait and switch pay to win game, not some happy go lucky subscription game.

[Maelphistez]

Tinfoil hat aside on selling "new" content since VoD is actually part of the stuff they gave away for free over the summer...

The real problem with Mortal Fear is that it was the "go to" weapon during the mass dupe-a-palooza during the collectible card era. Thus, there are likely a TON of phlogiston sitting around waiting for the time when Mortal Fear comes back. That doesn't mean they couldn't introduce a new mortal fear grind... Just don't expect that the old version will ever come back.

[Redgob]

Now that we have a new melee weapon with a no-save instakill that works in Legendary R10 that procs at a similar rate to Mortal Fear, I think it's time that the moratorium on Mortal Fear be lifted.
Are you claiming that the new effect doesn't have a HP limit like all other similar effects?

[Fivetigers33]

Are you claiming that the new effect doesn't have a HP limit like all other similar effects?

That is correct.

https://i.imgur.com/hisBsex.png

[slarden]

Does anyone know if you TR out of your current build does the unlocked power remain - if you go to a pure 20 rogue next life for example?

As for mortal fear, I think keeping the power to the newer gear is fine.

[Tyrande]

Does anyone know if you TR out of your current build does the unlocked power remain - if you go to a pure 20 rogue next life for example?

As for mortal fear, I think keeping the power to the newer gear is fine.

I wouldn't do it though? Who knows when the next expansion comes around and the item is nerfed to be only usable for FvS, clerics and paladins of Vol?

[Redgob]

That is correct.

https://i.imgur.com/hisBsex.png
Ah, an optimist, I see :)

[droid327]

I think there's a big difference between MF on a dagger and being able to craft MF on any weapon, like a Shuriken, or an Xbow, or a THF weapon...

MF was removed because people were just fishing with it. While TWF daggers does give you a good hit rate, fishing single targets is probably not that big a worry right now but fishing AOE or ranged would be.

[Fivetigers33]

While TWF daggers does give you a good hit rate, fishing single targets is probably not that big a worry right now but fishing AOE or ranged would be.


Bear
Cleaves
Confront Any Foe
Dance of Death
Should I continue?


As for ranged, how many ranged instakill spells are there? What's the harm with putting MF on an old ranged TF weapon if a player wants to forgo having a sentient weapon?

[Lonnbeimnech]

I think there's a big difference between MF on a dagger and being able to craft MF on any weapon, like a Shuriken, or an Xbow, or a THF weapon...

MF was removed because people were just fishing with it. While TWF daggers does give you a good hit rate, fishing single targets is probably not that big a worry right now but fishing AOE or ranged would be.

which raises the question, does this weapon effect work if held in the left hand and a thrown weapon is used in the right???

[draven1]

Bear
Cleaves
Confront Any Foe
Dance of Death
Should I continue?


As for ranged, how many ranged instakill spells are there? What's the harm with putting MF on an old ranged TF weapon if a player wants to forgo having a sentient weapon?

So, devs can make it won't proc on ANY AOE.
Anyway, AOE shouldn't proc those special effect at all for balance reason.

[Fivetigers33]

So, devs can make it won't proc on ANY AOE.
Anyway, AOE shouldn't proc those special effect at all for balance reason.

Because instakilling entire groups of mobs is bad?

Wail of the Banshee
Implosion
Circle of Death
Everything is Nothing
Mass Frog
Holy Retribution
Visage of Terror
Consume
I've even seen what appeared to be Assassinate hitting 3 targets.
etc...



If you have an issue with AoE instakills, DDO is probably not the game for you.

[draven1]

Because instakilling entire groups of mobs is bad?

Wail of the Banshee
Implosion
Circle of Death
Everything is Nothing
Mass Frog
Holy Retribution
Visage of Terror
Consume
etc...

These have long cooldown at least. Especially, Consume has 3 mins, & it doesn't proc when other party members are nearby like "old implosion bug".

[Fivetigers33]

These have long cooldown at least. Especially, Consume has 3 mins, & it doesn't proc when other party members are nearby like "old implosion bug".

The low proc rate on the weapon is essentially a long cooldown. Any DC casting class is going to have several instakills, even if they aren't all AoE, to the point that there will almost always be 1 spell ready to be cast.

I've always wondered why people argue so hard against Mortal Fear when the game is literally littered with instakills. It's just a fun effect that isn't game breaking (at least not any more). A DC wizard will still clear trash faster than a Mortal Fear melee/ranged. A Sorc or Alchemist will also still clear trash faster than a Mortal Fear melee/ranged. It wont shift the meta. So what is the real issue?

I honestly want to understand your point of view, I'm just not getting it. Can you lay out exactly how this would be bad for balance? Unless it can outdo things already in the game (which it cant), I don't see what the problem is. Do you really think any 2H builds are going to give up their Tails and Tremors? Will throwers give up Wide Open Sky? I don't see that happening.

[draven1]

The low proc rate on the weapon is essentially a long cooldown. Any DC casting class is going to have several instakills, even if they aren't all AoE, to the point that there will almost always be 1 spell ready to be cast.

Exactly. I've already pointed out spell based instakills are over-powered "5 years ago".
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/455851-Instakill-spells?highlight=



I've always wondered why people argue so hard against Mortal Fear when the game is literally littered with instakills. It's just a fun effect that isn't game breaking (at least not any more). A DC wizard will still clear trash faster than a Mortal Fear melee/ranged. A Sorc or Alchemist will also still clear trash faster than a Mortal Fear melee/ranged. It wont shift the meta. So what is the real issue?

Also I've already pointed out spell crit damage are over-powered "4 years ago".
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/475612-Spell-crit
And Mortal fear "5 years ago".
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/457462-Mortal-Fear?highlight=

[Fivetigers33]

Exactly. I've already pointed out spell based instakills are over-powered "5 years ago".
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/455851-Instakill-spells?highlight=


Also I've already pointed out spell crit damage are over-powered "4 years ago".
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/475612-Spell-crit
And Mortal fear "5 years ago".
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/457462-Mortal-Fear?highlight=




So you just want evergthing nerfed. Got it.

Once you accept that this game will never be balanced, it becomes a lot more fun and a lot less frustrating. You'll also find that you are no longer trying to ruin other people's fun. Just my 2 cents.

[droid327]

The low proc rate on the weapon is essentially a long cooldown. Any DC casting class is going to have several instakills, even if they aren't all AoE, to the point that there will almost always be 1 spell ready to be cast.

I've always wondered why people argue so hard against Mortal Fear when the game is literally littered with instakills. It's just a fun effect that isn't game breaking (at least not any more). A DC wizard will still clear trash faster than a Mortal Fear melee/ranged. A Sorc or Alchemist will also still clear trash faster than a Mortal Fear melee/ranged. It wont shift the meta. So what is the real issue?

I honestly want to understand your point of view, I'm just not getting it. Can you lay out exactly how this would be bad for balance? Unless it can outdo things already in the game (which it cant), I don't see what the problem is. Do you really think any 2H builds are going to give up their Tails and Tremors? Will throwers give up Wide Open Sky? I don't see that happening.

The low proc rate is offset by the high hitrate you can get on builds that have both high attack speed and inherent AOE. Bear is about the closest you'd get to abusing Dull Dagger right now but even then their attack rate is pretty low. When you combine it with Inqui or Shuricannon attacks/sec plus IPS multihit, you're basically spamming IKs.

The issue is one of opportunity cost. Yes, there are plenty of pathways to IKs - even AOE IKs. Yes there are ways you can get Dull Dagger to work AOE now. But you basically need to devote all your opportunity costs towards making those strategies work. Mortal Fear and other no-save effects have no prerequsite, no limitations on which builds can use it if you can craft it onto any TF weapon - all you need to do is equip it and be able to hit things. It doesnt matter how much damage you do, you dont need a damage stat anymore, or RP/MP, or a Trance, or Deadly. You dont need anything except to-hit and attack speed.

As long as you're taking 20 hits (not attacks, but hits) or more on average to kill a mob, then a 5% chance of IK is just as good as killing them regular style. You can totally sell out and just fish, and it works just as well on Elite as it does on R10. That's the reason they gutted Stealth, after all - they cant have core mechanics that basically ignore difficulty scaling.

Basically its bad for balance because it competes with top builds while requiring drastically less opportunity cost to get there.

[Fivetigers33]

Basically its bad for balance because it competes with top builds while requiring drastically less opportunity cost to get there.

I appreciate you actually putting some reasoning in there.

Think about how much damage top builds are doing and how fast they are doing it. You really think attack speed + Mortal Fear will suddenly make everybody R10 king? I don't think so. You still need survival, game skill, etc.

Lets say you are right though. Mortal Fear is un-nerfed and now players with no build aside from attack speed are laying waste to R10. What happens when they run into a deathwarded mob? What happens when they get reaper spawns? What happens when their 0 DPS all in on Mortal Fear build gets to the R10 boss? It's not quite as black and white as you explain it.

[Xitix555]

Reminds me of when Terror proc'd like mad (easily topped kill counts running Lords of Dust pre-MotU). Was great until they added the effect to other weapons in MotU and then after realizing how overpowered it was nerfed the effect.

[Avocado]

Mortal fear is too powerful in the hands of throwers as all shots can proc it and the proc is affected by helpless damage increasers. Meaning a stunned mob that takes 7k damage will end up dieing if its nerve venomed. It takes an extra 105% damage for a total of over 14k. Granted you twist in sense weakness like some. Mortal fear also bypasses the player damage reduction in reaper making trash clearing a more trivial task. Reapers would be much less of threat because they would die super quick. Some reapers require insane fort bypass to crit and mortal fear would just make them trivial to deal with. Nerve venom, mortal fear proc, dead.

[Fivetigers33]

Mortal fear is too powerful in the hands of throwers as all shots can proc it and the proc is affected by helpless damage increasers. Meaning a stunned mob that takes 7k damage will end up dieing if its nerve venomed. It takes an extra 105% damage for a total of over 14k. Granted you twist in sense weakness like some. Mortal fear also bypasses the player damage reduction in reaper making trash clearing a more trivial task. Reapers would be much less of threat because they would die super quick. Some reapers require insane fort bypass to crit and mortal fear would just make them trivial to deal with. Nerve venom, mortal fear proc, dead.

Isn't trash already trivial to deal with? Aren't Doom reapers the answer to all the issues you raised?

[Avocado]

Isn't trash already trivial to deal with? Aren't Doom reapers the answer to all the issues you raised?

Yes, in most cases. But no in other cases. Like when they are venge buffed or a despair pops up and makes cc difficult. I dont like mortal fear's bias towards ranged builds. Dooms are like the second least scary reaper.

[LurkingVeteran]

Since Lyn refused to put a PK/Weird in the illusionist tree, I assumed they didn't like insta-kills. Can somebody actually test the dagger first before we have this argument? It could be 1% proc or have a hidden hit point cap.

EDIT: Autocorrect fail.

[Mindos]

These have long cooldown at least. Especially, Consume has 3 mins, & it doesn't proc when other party members are nearby like "old implosion bug".

Tell me you filed a bug report?

[KhaoticOne]

The funny thing (Well, not really that funny to me) is that I just returned to the game recently and had no idea that Mortal Fear was "Nerfed" until a couple weeks ago when I made my first one and noticed that it never procced at all while I was farming LE Sharn to update my gear. I was super excited when I first returned and noticed that phlogs had been changed to BTA and I could now finally craft T3 onto my barbs weapon. I only ever ran it on my caster when it was first released because my other characters were all low lvl at the time and then I ended up leaving the game before getting them high enough to run it.

That excitement was pretty short lived though upon realizing that it's a pretty pointless upgrade when the ML is 28 and it does not work in quests that are lvl 30 and above, which seems to be every single quest that has been released since I left over 3 years ago? Even if they kept the current nerf where MF does not work in Legendary, they should reduce the min lvl of TF items so that they are actually usable for more than 2 levels worth of quests.
Maybe T1 = lvl 21
T2 = lvl 23
T3 = lvl 25

I think I would be ok with the nerf if something like that was done to compensate. Just my 2 cents anyway.

[draven1]

Tell me you filed a bug report?

yup, but, no response from devs yet

[Tilomere]

Think about how much damage top builds are doing and how fast they are doing it.

150k AoE mostly true damage in 3 seconds (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/519237-Whats-with-the-Max-Caster-Level?p=6374991&viewfull=1#post6374991).

[LurkingVeteran]

Wait, what? MCL on Multivial actually gets pushed to 30 with their "Master of" feat? MCL 31 with the Pyrite feats?

This seems humongously broken on top of Multi-vial already having the highest damage per caster level in the game. It's even worse than giving Meteor +10 MCL in the Master of Fire feat. In fact, they just felt the need to remove 2 MCL from the sorc cores, which in retrospect looks rather embarrassing. I would have loved to be a fly on the wall in that discussion. "SSG: Our on-going balance investigations have finally concluded that the decade-old Savant trees are overperforming by precisely 2 MCL, it should be MCL 23 instead of MCL 25". Meanwhile, Alchemist: *dances on table*. I usually defend SSG balancing, but this one makes no sense.

This makes Alchemist MCL very near their CL. They might even benefit from a +2 Arcane CL item.

[Fivetigers33]

150k AoE mostly true damage in 3 seconds (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/519237-Whats-with-the-Max-Caster-Level?p=6374991&viewfull=1#post6374991).



At least someone gets it. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink... Trying to explain that the amount of DPS already in the game pretty much completely invalidates any anti-Mortal Fear argument. Maybe a video would better demonstrate my point.

Anyone that thinks Mortal Fear is too powerful, watch the video below and take a guess at how many kills a Mortal Fear build would get in that party. Each group of mobs is gone within 2-3 seconds. Do you think they could have shaved a few seconds off their completion time if they were all using Mortal Fear weapons?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YG_Mco8-oNw

[ggmarquez]

Maybe a video would better demonstrate my point.

dungeon alert red at the end, but no-one dies. heh they chewed through the boss in under 10 seconds. forget un-nerfing mortal fear... gotta nerf pally first. then maybe nerf it again just to be on the safe side.

[LurkingVeteran]

At least someone gets it. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink... Trying to explain that the amount of DPS already in the game pretty much completely invalidates any anti-Mortal Fear argument. Maybe a video would better demonstrate my point.

Anyone that thinks Mortal Fear is too powerful, watch the video below and take a guess at how many kills a Mortal Fear build would get in that party. Each group of mobs is gone within 2-3 seconds.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YG_Mco8-oNw

That's only because SSG is so bad at keeping power creep in check that R10 isn't what it was. If they expand reaper to 15, insta-kill will be great again. There are so many immunes now with champs + reapers that it kind of limits the viability of focused insta-kill builds regardless. Add to this that Paladin now gets one of the best insta-kills for free on top of A-tier DPS, and it's unclear why you would want to gimp yourself for it. Two wrongs doesn't make for one right though.

[slarden]

I wouldn't do it though? Who knows when the next expansion comes around and the item is nerfed to be only usable for FvS, clerics and paladins of Vol?

I don't have the item so I am really just wondering whether the unlock is an ability that provides benefits to followers of vol or whether the unlock can be used by any character, but can only be unlocked by a follower of vol.

[Fivetigers33]

That's only because SSG is so bad at keeping power creep in check that R10 isn't what it was. If they expand reaper to 15, insta-kill will be great again. There are so many immunes now with champs + reapers that it kind of limits the viability of focused insta-kill builds regardless. Add to this that Paladin now gets one of the best insta-kills for free on top of A-tier DPS, and it's unclear why you would want to gimp yourself for it. Two wrongs doesn't make for one right though.

I pretty much agree with everything you've said. If SSG were to undertake a massive re-balance project, then yes I agree Mortal Fear would be OP in a nice balanced game environment. I don't think that sort of project is on the table for SSG though, and in the current state of the game, I don't see how un-nerfing mortal fear would hurt anything. It's a fun and unique effect that would mostly help out weaker builds while not having any real effect on endgame meta. Seems like a win for everybody to me.


FWIW I mostly play a SWF bard, so I've already gimped myself. I wouldn't do it further by using a Thunderforged weapon. In my opinion, if Mortal Fear were un-nerfed, it would be a nice offhand option for TWF builds. Other people are the ones losing their sh!t over theoretical ranged Mortal Fear builds. I'm just trying to bring them back to reality by showing them that the thing they are afraid might potentially happen already exists in the game.

[MistaMagic]

I pretty much agree with everything you've said. If SSG were to undertake a massive re-balance project, then yes I agree Mortal Fear would be OP in a nice balanced game environment. I don't think that sort of project is on the table for SSG though, and in the current state of the game, I don't see how un-nerfing mortal fear would hurt anything. It's a fun and unique effect that would mostly help out weaker builds while not having any real effect on endgame meta. Seems like a win for everybody to me.


FWIW I mostly play a SWF bard, so I've already gimped myself. I wouldn't do it further by using a Thunderforged weapon. In my opinion, if Mortal Fear were un-nerfed, it would be a nice offhand option for TWF builds. Other people are the ones losing their sh!t over theoretical ranged Mortal Fear builds. I'm just trying to bring them back to reality by showing them that the thing they are afraid might potentially happen already exists in the game.

The question is would I use my old Mortal Fear xbow instead of my level 29 xbow with 9 slots making 12 with my artifact?. I do not think it needs very long to decide although it would be handy for about an hour while doing lvl28-29

[slarden]

I don't think SSG would entertain un-nerfing mortal fear.

Mortal fear was never a death effect - the only reason people view it that way is because of the bug that applied helplessness damage boosts which boosted the damage to make the proc better than advertised.

So in the new reaper world for mortal fear to be working properly the damage would be exactly 50% of the enemy health (not boosted by helpless damage boosts) and then would be multiplied by the appropriate skull damage reduction negative multiplier since after all mortal fear proc is damage. If they fix those things it's certainly not unbalanced.

[Fivetigers33]

Mortal fear was never a death effect - the only reason people view it that way is because of the bug that applied helplessness damage boosts which boosted the damage to make the proc better than advertised.


This seems to be everyone's main issue with it, but at the same time everyone is glossing over the fact that a Helpless Mob is living on borrowed time as it is. 5% chance to kill a helpless mob is essentially what Mortal Fear does. This is apparently a bridge to far, as if the players didn't already have more than a 5% chance of killing the helpless mob without the help of some bugged proc.

Though if the devs could fix it so it wasn't affected by Helpless Damage I'd have no issue and would hope it could be un-nerfed at that point. I'm guessing this was the reason for the initial nerf though. Fixing it will likely take a lot more time and effort than nerfing it. But this brings me back to my initial point, we now have a new dev designed non-bugged weapon effect that does essentially the same thing as bugged Mortal Fear. So why is that ok but Mortal Fear is still the devil?


https://i.imgur.com/FHaIAqH.png

[slarden]

This seems to be everyone's main issue with it, but at the same time everyone is glossing over the fact that a Helpless Mob is living on borrowed time as it is. 5% chance to kill a helpless mob is essentially what Mortal Fear does. This is apparently a bridge to far, as if the players didn't already have more than a 5% chance of killing the helpless mob without the help of some bugged proc.

Though if the devs could fix it so it wasn't affected by Helpless Damage I'd have no issue and would hope it could be un-nerfed at that point. I'm guessing this was the reason for the initial nerf though. Fixing it will likely take a lot more time and effort than nerfing it. But this brings me back to my initial point, we now have a new dev designed non-bugged weapon effect that does essentially the same thing as bugged Mortal Fear. So why is that ok but Mortal Fear is still the devil?


https://i.imgur.com/FHaIAqH.png

I am not sure what your argument is. Is your argument that the game is too easy so therefore they should unnerf mortal fear and NOT fix it.

That seems like a non-sensical argument to me that I can't find any compelling reason to support.

Let's face it people don't ask for things to be un-nerfed unless they think they can clear dungeons faster.

[Fivetigers33]

Is your argument that the game is too easy so therefore they should unnerf mortal fear and NOT fix it.

That seems like a non-sensical argument to me that I can't find any compelling reason to support.

Let's face it people don't ask for things to be un-nerfed unless they think they can clear dungeons faster.




I don't think fixing it is an option, or that is what they would have done that years ago. Assuming fixing it to work properly is off the table, the options now are probably to leave it nerfed, or un-nerf it to it's non-WAI state.

The initial reason for the nerf was that it was over performing by outright killing helpless enemies, which was deemed too powerful/game breaking/whatever.

My argument is that now an even more powerful proc has been added to the game, that outright kills mobs whether they are helpless or not, Mortal Fear no longer deserves to be nerfed.

I've stated I think the TF MF weapons would make nice offhand options for TWF. I don't have some nefarious exploit in mind. I just think it's ridiculous that by the time you can actually equip a T3 TF weapon, the coolest T3 upgrade doesn't work in any of the quests you will be running at that level. It's a waste of a cool proc, it's a letdown to players that farmed it, and the fact that it's even still a crafting option is a trap for any future crafters.



TLDR:
Mortal Fear is supposed to do X.
Mortal Fear does X+ so it got nerfed.
New effect X++ added to the game.
Why at this point is Mortal Fear still nerfed for doing X+ when X++ is in the game?

[droid327]

Justifying one broken mechanic by pointing out other mechanics are already broken isnt fixing anything, its making it harder to fix

"We already have power creep, so we need more power creep" is both a fallacious argument, and also the reason we have too much power creep

Sorry your personal preference build isnt broken-OP right now but the answer isnt "break everyone and then fix them all later". If you think MF isnt broken-OP still, your response shouldnt be "lets bring back MF", it should be "lets get the game back to a place where MF doesnt seem OK anymore"

[ggmarquez]

Justifying one broken mechanic by pointing out other mechanics are already broken isnt fixing anything, its making it harder to fix

they literally just figured out how to unlock dull dagger and you are already asking for it to be nerfed? really? man the anti power creepers are really on top of it around here.

[Fivetigers33]

Sorry your personal preference build isnt broken-OP right now but the answer isnt "break everyone and then fix them all later". If you think MF isnt broken-OP still, your response shouldnt be "lets bring back MF", it should be "lets get the game back to a place where MF doesnt seem OK anymore"

I would have 0 issues if they took the game back to launch/as close to 3.5 as possible. That's just me though. In terms of general balance, what has SSG done to give you any hope that real balance will ever be a thing? Every other update is just OP meta shift after OP meta shift. Fury Shotters, Warlocks, Melee Monks, Shurithrowers, Inquisitives, Sorcs, Pallys, Alchemists... If there were hope for real balance, I'd be on your side 100%, but balance like that in DDO is a pipe dream at this point.

[Cordovan]

The Dull Dagger's instakill effect has a hit point limit.

[Nickodeamous]

The thing that is not addressed is the massive and I mean massive amount of time invested to even get Mortal Fear. 20 raids + turn in for 10 more phlostigons (spell?). If you TR, you lose the 20 counter. This was a massive undertaking, versus a random drop in a raid.

Make Mortal Fear 25% in Reaper/Legendary, and call it a day. Nobody will use it anyway except maybe returning players that don't have good sentient weapons yet.

Just my 2 cents.

Nico

[Fivetigers33]

The Dull Dagger's instakill effect has a hit point limit.

Thanks for the clarification.




Make Mortal Fear 25% in Reaper/Legendary, and call it a day.

This is great suggestion and seems like it should be easy to code.

[droid327]

In terms of general balance, what has SSG done to give you any hope that real balance will ever be a thing?

Fey sets deliberately designed to not simply invalidate sharn/lgs. Adhering to their consistent scaling formulae for augments. FI tree that didn't instantly create new meta builds. Repeated declarations they don't want to repeat the inqui cycle of having to nerf overturned releases.

They are giving real credence to the idea that power creep should be reined in as much as possible with new content.

[Fivetigers33]

Fey sets deliberately designed to not simply invalidate sharn/lgs.
I havent looked at the ranged/caster stuff, but there's definitely melee power creep in the gear. Stacking Melee power. Wilderness Lore feats converted to damage. Ram's Might for everyone!



Adhering to their consistent scaling formulae for augments.
The updated augments are literally power creep. All the stuff that you couldnt fit in gear before and had to use augs for is all higher values now. Not to mention all the new augments and augment sets. It's all power creep.



FI tree that didn't instantly create new meta builds.
This just made Pally, which was already melee meta, WAY better. CHA to hit and damage on Silvanus builds and Falchion builds and not being locked into PDK's crappy racial tree.



Repeated declarations they don't want to repeat the inqui cycle of having to nerf overturned releases.
Actions speak louder than words.


They are giving real credence to the idea that power creep should be reined in as much as possible with new content.
The forthcoming level cap increase is almost 100% guaranteed power creep.

[Meat-Head]

I havent looked at the ranged...stuff,


As far as I can tell so far, there is no significant offensive help for a ranged build in the expansion. I hope I'm wrong. If I am, someone PM me plox.

[zaidm271981]

The Dull Dagger's instakill effect has a hit point limit.

What is the hit point limit exactly?

[Chai]

Basically its bad for balance because it competes with top builds while requiring drastically less opportunity cost to get there.

If balance could ever be achieved in DDO I might agree with this.

This game is far more fun when players are actually playing it together rather than opposing each other while couching their sunk-cost-fallacy based arguments in terms of game balance.

[Chai]

The forthcoming level cap increase is almost 100% guaranteed power creep.

With a built in grind wall and paid way(s) to mitigate the time consumption.

[zaidm271981]

The Dull Dagger's instakill effect has a hit point limit.

Does anyone know what it is????

[Hawkwier]

Does anyone know what it is????

I don't, but assuming it is in the order of Sov Vorpal then that's fine, even if it's a wee bit more than that.

Also, if that assumption is correct, then this whole bring back MF line of argument seems flimsy at best to me, and the way to "fix" dull dagger being op, of it even is, isn't to bring back more op stuff, but to actually fix what is borked.

[zaidm271981]

I don't, but assuming it is in the order of Sov Vorpal then that's fine, even if it's a wee bit more than that.

Also, if that assumption is correct, then this whole bring back MF line of argument seems flimsy at best to me, and the way to "fix" dull dagger being op, of it even is, isn't to bring back more op stuff, but to actually fix what is borked.

For all we know, it could be in line with Soulrazor's instakill limit. Also, if it is really sovereign vorpal or sovereign nightmares, why not just put in the text ''sovereign ............ : this weapon has the ability to execute an already weak or weakened foe'', instead of giving the wrong impression that it can kill any non boss with no save and no catch.'' I personally dont see a problem with it being a kill with no save weapon, but low proc - it fits the flavour - its been done before in other games (Mehrune's Razor anyone??), why not this one??? This weapon for all intents and purposes is supposed to be an extension of the assassin, which can already assassinate pretty much anything anyway. Im not advocating mortal fear be buffed or brought back, just that there are two sides to this argument. How about making the final litany ability akin to holy retribution - dependant on hp, yet with a low chance of slaying anything with high hp?? Just another angle to look at this...