Enhancement Point Reset Cost

[Zafaron]

I've been tweaking and adjusting the enhancement points of a build this life on my character and I don't usually even look at the platinum cost to see how much it is to reset the trees. When I hit level 20 I went to reset my trees again and it cost 400,000 platinum. Now as an established player, that much platinum isn't going to break the bank, but if a new player wanted to test out different enhancements they would be in trouble. The cost to reset them gets prohibitively expensive if you change them around much.

I think you should consider either reducing the cost, making it a fixed number that doesn't change based on how frequently you reset them, or removing the platinum cost all together.

[droid327]

I dont see where there's any problem with the situation you're describing...

Its working exactly as its supposed to. If you reset your enhancements a bunch, then yes eventually its going to reach a non-negligible cost. That's as it should be. Give it time and it'll decay back down.

The idea is to let you reset your enhancements freely up to a certain amount, but not let you constantly swap them out. If you're just swapping them out occasionally to fine-tune your build and then stick with it, then you wont ever hit that wall.

[Valerianus]

agree with OP, it's an obsolete plat sink, respec costs, all of them, should be lower.

unless we get something like this:

https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Traits#Saving_configurations

(lotro traits are like ddo trees. it also saves quickbar configuration)

[Dark_Lord_Mary]

The respec is way too expensive and needs to be changed - on the live servers this may not be a huge deal because everyone has lots of plat, but for new players or for people participating in the HCL event on a new toon with no plat or other resources it makes trying various build tweeks impossible and respecing unaffordable. If you make a mistake, which it is very easy to do, you are better off starting over than respecing because plat on HCL is very hard to come by.

[rabidfox]

It should go away (I love the current 0 cost for reaper respec). The people that get hit hardest by the costs are new players that have little plat and are most likely to make game breaking mistakes while setting up their characters. It also discourages playing around with weird build ideas as swapping around a bunch to see what works gets crazy expensive fast.

Just add a 5% XP pot to a vendor for 1,000,000 (2,000,000 or whatever) and it'll act as a plat sink for all veteran players. Or something else that's marginally useful that would be a plat dump that isn't a newbie tax.

[Coffey]

Yes please get rid of this! One more thing to turn a prospective players away from DDO.

[Tsutti]

I dont see where there's any problem with the situation you're describing...

Its working exactly as its supposed to. If you reset your enhancements a bunch, then yes eventually its going to reach a non-negligible cost. That's as it should be. Give it time and it'll decay back down.

The idea is to let you reset your enhancements freely up to a certain amount, but not let you constantly swap them out. If you're just swapping them out occasionally to fine-tune your build and then stick with it, then you wont ever hit that wall.

Below is the problem with the situation.


if a new player wanted to test out different enhancements they would be in trouble. The cost to reset them gets prohibitively expensive if you change them around much.

"If you reset your enhancements a bunch, then yes eventually its going to reach a non-negligible cost." For a new player you don't need to reset it a bunch, resetting once or twice uses all you plat and you're not even able to reset a 3rd time--that's not even non-negligible anymore, it's pricier than they can afford.

As for swapping occasionally to fine tune, a new player has to mess around with enhancements to figure out what works and what doesn't. Without being able to make a lot of swaps, they are forced to test less stuff and it becomes harder for them to actually figure out what the most "finely tuned" build is or what build they enjoy playing.

OP isn't really worried about their own plat costs, even though 400k is a lot. They're worried about new players who may find broccoli juice/bacon pricey.

[droid327]

Below is the problem with the situation.



"If you reset your enhancements a bunch, then yes eventually its going to reach a non-negligible cost." For a new player you don't need to reset it a bunch, resetting once or twice uses all you plat and you're not even able to reset a 3rd time--that's not even non-negligible anymore, it's pricier than they can afford.

As for swapping occasionally to fine tune, a new player has to mess around with enhancements to figure out what works and what doesn't. Without being able to make a lot of swaps, they are forced to test less stuff and it becomes harder for them to actually figure out what the most "finely tuned" build is or what build they enjoy playing.

OP isn't really worried about their own plat costs, even though 400k is a lot. They're worried about new players who may find broccoli juice/bacon pricey.

How is that different from feats or class levels though? You can't respec those for free either...a new player is still going to need a build one way or the other

There should be some permanence, some opportunity cost to respec your enhancements. Its not as expensive as feats (Fred) or levels (Store) but it shouldn't be zero either. Your enhancement spec shouldn't be something you can change daily.

[Valerianus]

How is that different from feats or class levels though? You can't respec those for free either...a new player is still going to need a build one way or the other

There should be some permanence, some opportunity cost to respec your enhancements. Its not as expensive as feats (Fred) or levels (Store) but it shouldn't be zero either. Your enhancement spec shouldn't be something you can change daily.

Your enhancement spec shouldn't be something you can change daily. why? why not?

building can be difficult for a new player, ddo has so much variety, one of the best aspects of the game. just let them try out things and learn without problems. and let's not teach them that a build is set in stone.

moreover, a lot of players are asking for more lamannia time to test. a low\zero cost respec will enable them to freely test on live server without hassle.

win-win

any kind of respec cost should be lower, in the case of enhancements should be zero imho.

[droid327]

Your enhancement spec shouldn't be something you can change daily. why? why not?

building can be difficult for a new player, ddo has so much variety, one of the best aspects of the game. just let them try out things and learn without problems. and let's not teach them that a build is set in stone.

moreover, a lot of players are asking for more lamannia time to test. a low\zero cost respec will enable them to freely test on live server without hassle.

win-win

any kind of respec cost should be lower, in the case of enhancements should be zero imho.

Because builds ARE set in stone. Or at least in clay. The whole point of trade offs is you give up one thing for another...if you can freely respec then you could always have the ideal tools for any situation you know you're going to face, rather than having to overcome various challenges with the tools you've chosen for yourself. It defeats the entire point of HAVING builds if builds are just totally fluid with no opportunity cost for alterations.

I agree, Lama should be up all the time for sandbox testing, but the Live game should not be a sandbox.

[Krelar]

Maybe they should do sort of a compromise. Something like have the cost reset every time you take a level and the first reset is free.
That way you can easily try out a different setup each level, especially with multi class builds the enhancements you want could change significantly as you level up.

[Valerianus]

Because builds ARE set in stone. Or at least in clay. The whole point of trade offs is you give up one thing for another...if you can freely respec then you could always have the ideal tools for any situation you know you're going to face, rather than having to overcome various challenges with the tools you've chosen for yourself. It defeats the entire point of HAVING builds if builds are just totally fluid with no opportunity cost for alterations.

I agree, Lama should be up all the time for sandbox testing, but the Live game should not be a sandbox.


and that's a big MISTAKE because think about the grouping options if a melee could swap from dps to tank freely or a divine caster from dc casting to healer freely (obviously the gear farming is on you)

i admit multiclassing, thus the final outcome of the build, makes this idea weird and not fully viable, but this is food for thought. also consider how alt-unfriendly ddo is.

[Tsutti]

How is that different from feats or class levels though? You can't respec those for free either...a new player is still going to need a build one way or the other

True that you can't repeatedly respec those, but every new character is granted a +0 heart of wood so if they decide at some point to respec their feats they do have that at least.

[Dark_Lord_Mary]

During the HCL event, 1st life players with not a lot of experience in DDO make build mistakes and cannot afford to respec and change them; this generally leads them to an early demise. I have personally loaned platinum to players during HCL specifically so they could respec and I was shocked by how much they needed - one hundred and fifty thousand platinum on a server where one thousand platinum is a lot?

It's one of the biggest glaring issues about DDO and the HCL event - you have a game economy based on 14-year-old live servers working on a brand new server where the global bank accounts are all zero 0.

On live servers, there's so much platinum saturation the Devs needed money sinks - but on HCL the prices of gear, repairs, potions, food - is way way way too steep - have you seen what broccoli juice costs? No one on HCL can afford to use it. It would be like starting up an island, moving all of us there to start life over - we are all broke, then opening a restaurant that sells cheeseburgers for $500. Each.

This NEEDS to be fixed. When DDO launched it was a gold economy, not a platinum economy. No one had large amounts of platinum for years. It was only after the introduction of the Shroud the people started hoarding platinum wealth.

[DYWYPI]

I used respecifying of Enhancements (resets) for my pure generic melee Character on the Hardcore server several times during: Level 11, 12, 18 and 20. Mainly for Core or Tier level enhancement reasons, so those were basically planned adjustments.

I even ended up with over 200,000pp spare by the time I hit Level 20 from just soloing quests and selling a few random loot items for low cost around base price. I did NOT purchase any items from the Store and was not a member of any Guild during that period. The respecifying wasn't a large Platinum sink, but neither was it for peanuts.

As was mentioned above; if you were to frequently needlessly fiddle with trees that were near full, or make stupid mistakes then it could easily becoming an expensive hobby.

[Sunnie]

It should go away (I love the current 0 cost for reaper respec). The people that get hit hardest by the costs are new players that have little plat and are most likely to make game breaking mistakes while setting up their characters. It also discourages playing around with weird build ideas as swapping around a bunch to see what works gets crazy expensive fast.

Just add a 5% XP pot to a vendor for 1,000,000 (2,000,000 or whatever) and it'll act as a plat sink for all veteran players. Or something else that's marginally useful that would be a plat dump that isn't a newbie tax.
Make it stack with all existing potions and that would sell like hotcakes.

[Tsutti]

During the HCL event, 1st life players with not a lot of experience in DDO make build mistakes and cannot afford to respec and change them; this generally leads them to an early demise. I have personally loaned platinum to players during HCL specifically so they could respec and I was shocked by how much they needed - one hundred and fifty thousand platinum on a server where one thousand platinum is a lot?

It's one of the biggest glaring issues about DDO and the HCL event - you have a game economy based on 14-year-old live servers working on a brand new server where the global bank accounts are all zero 0.

On live servers, there's so much platinum saturation the Devs needed money sinks - but on HCL the prices of gear, repairs, potions, food - is way way way too steep - have you seen what broccoli juice costs? No one on HCL can afford to use it. It would be like starting up an island, moving all of us there to start life over - we are all broke, then opening a restaurant that sells cheeseburgers for $500. Each.

This NEEDS to be fixed. When DDO launched it was a gold economy, not a platinum economy. No one had large amounts of platinum for years. It was only after the introduction of the Shroud the people started hoarding platinum wealth.

Hardcore was initially supposed to be hardcore, in other words not friendly for all players. Due to its now recurring nature and the latest granting access to ftp as well as three lives, it may no longer be entirely intended this way, but at least for the first season the plat thing wasn't a problem because it was intended as a challenge server.