New Player looking for help with a Support-Sorc in a 4-group setting

[Nairod]

Hey folks,

I'm playing in a group with a paladin (tanky), a cleric (healer) and a ranger (dd, trapper). My plan was not only to be another dd, but also support the group with buffs, cc and anything else what is possible with a sorc.
I must admit that I'm completly new to the game, but I read some guides and looked up builds. I have the feeling that everyone seems to have a strong opinion what is absolutly necessary for a sorc but these opinions sometimes seem to contradict each other :-) This makes me think whatever I do is completly wrong. So, I hope you can answer me some questions for my individual case.

This is my 28p-Build (Human, Lvl3):
STR 8
DEX 8
CON 16
INT 10
WIS 8
CHA 18

Skills: Most points in Spellcraft and Concentration
Feats: Maximize, Empower, Spell Focus: Evocation
Enhancements: Fire: SLA Burning Hands (3/3), Air: SLA Shocking Grasp (3/3)
Spells: Burning Hands, Niacs Cold Ray, Detect secret doors, Expeditious retreat

Here my questions:
1. Which kind of support can I provide? What can you recommend?
2. Is the advice from DDO-Wiki to get as much SLAs as possible at the beginning still up to date?
3. Does my starter-build seem viable? What kind of feats shall I take in the future?
4. What spells can you recommend for the upcoming levels?
5. Which enhancement-progression would you recommend for the DD/Supporter-role?

Thanks for you hints!

[Discpsycho]

Welcome to the forum and the game!

1. Mostly crowd control and pre-emptive killing. You can pick up a few buff spells (eg, Blur, Resist Energy) along the way, especially since your SLAs are going to be your main source of damage in the first several levels.

2. Pretty much. They'll be your bread-and-butter until at least level 6, when you can get Fireball

3. Your build is great. You might want to consider taking points in Use Magic Device in lieu of Concentration, since you'll (hopefully) be picking up the Quicken feat shortly. UMD will let you cast Raise Dead scrolls in crises by level 9ish, and save spell slots with buffs like Greater Heroism. There's not a lot of gear for it, but as a Cha-stacking character you should be ok.

IMO your next feat should be Quicken (I would have taken this at 3, but no biggie), and after that it depends a little on what other spell types you're using frequently. SF: Enchantment and SF: Conjuration would be solid choices, or Greater SF: Evocation

4. Since you get so few spell slots as a sorc, pick spells that are more general - eg, Suggestion is a better choice than Charm Person because it works on lots of monsters, while Charm Person only works on humanoids

Specifically, in the next few levels:
- Swap Detect Secret Doors for Sonic Blast (AOE daze that also breaks boxes)
- Swap Niac's Cold Ray for Shield (protects you from magic missiles)
- Web (amazing crowd control spell, just be careful because your fire spells will clear it out)
- Blur (buff granting 20% concealment, which your allies may not have)
- Suggestion (charm most types of enemies)

5. Sorc doesn't have any enhancement lines specific to this kind of stuff, so pick a savant tree and go to town. I'd recommend Fire (a bit more damage) or Air (Electric Loop SLA for CC), personally

[cru121]

I think you're on the right track, with one caveat: you're going to overshadow the rest of your group really fast. Probably around level 6 with Scorch SLA and Fireball spell. The solution is to grab extend spell next and pick up some party buffs like jump, blur, haste.

[unbongwah]

As a sorc your first priority should still be your DPS spells. But since you're the only arcane caster, it makes sense to take the buffs or utility spells the ranger and cleric don't get: i.e., Blur, Haste, Good Hope, and Dimension Door; also pick up Displacement for yourself. Greater Heroism can be cast from scrolls bought from Object Desire (https://ddowiki.com/page/Object_Desire); they last 11 minutes so it's not worth giving up a spell slot IMO.

In terms of crowd-control spells, some good options:

Web and Stinking Cloud particularly if you're an Earth Savant (Conjuration focus)
Sonic Blast and Greater Shout will daze
Otto's Sphere of Dancing lasts a long time and will affect any mobs you can kite into it
Hold Person / Monster and their Mass versions

[Nairod]

Thank you! This is a great community. I'm not used to such helpful comments in a MMO-Forum :-P

So you would recommend taking Acid Spray an Niacs Cold Ray as SLAs as well for my next enhancement-points?

And just for my understanding: What exactly is quicken good for? Aren't my spells all cast instantly and therefor cannot be interrupted anyway?

[cru121]

Thank you! This is a great community. I'm not used to such helpful comments in a MMO-Forum :-P

So you would recommend taking Acid Spray an Niacs Cold Ray as SLAs as well for my next enhancement-points?

And just for my understanding: What exactly is quicken good for? Aren't my spells all cast instantly and therefor cannot be interrupted anyway?

No to SLAs. The way sorcerer trees are set up is that opposing elements are mutually exclusive, i.e., if you take the fire, you cannot take ice. (Unless you reset your enhancements to give up fire).

Instead, you should slowly build up your main tree (for example, fire) so that at level 6 you can grab the tier 4 ability, Scorch SLA.

No, your spells are not cast instantly. They can be interrupted if you take enough damage. Probably doesn't happen in normal and hard difficulties, if you invested in the Concentration skilll.

However, many argue that Sorcerer spells are cast fast enough that quicken is not necessary until Otto's Sphere of Dancing (or never).

[Nairod]

Okay, seems logical, thank you. I think I'm going with Electricity for the beginning, because of cc of Electric Loop and maybe switch it with fire some time.

Do you disable Empower and Maximize when your NOT using SLAs to save spell points or do I have enough spell points to leave it active all the time?

[unbongwah]

There are four Savant trees, however you're only allowed to use two at a time, since opposing elements lock each other out. Meaning four possible combos of <Fire | Water> and <Earth | Air>. So one of the first major decisions of any sorc build is which elements you want to focus on. Your tertiary spells will usually be Force / untyped damage for enemies with high elemental resistances/immunities (e.g., Disintegrate, the Magic/Force/Chain Missiles trinity).

Historically my favorite combo is Air+Fire: plenty of DPS and Wind Dance is the most useful Savant ability IMO. However there are other factors, including available gear; e.g., Beacon of Magic (https://ddowiki.com/page/Named_item_sets#Ravenloft_Item_Sets) is one of the best sets for casters and the belts are intended for fire+acid or cold+electric casters.

[C-Dog]

...I read some guides and looked up builds. I have the feeling that everyone seems to have a strong opinion what is absolutely necessary for a sorc but these opinions sometimes seem to contradict each other...
Look at the dates on those diff builds. A while ago (somewhere around Dec-Jan of '18-19?), the trend in builds shifted from 2-element (typically Air+Fire) to 1 Element + Eldritch Knight ("EK"), when the EK tree got a (much needed) re-write.

(And people will nitpick over whether Fire or Air (Electric+Sonic) is "better". Some will tell you one is better at Levels A-B, but that then you should switch for Levels C-D. And while they may be right, it's not that big a difference, and without duplicate gear it's not practical for a new player. I like Electric for the stuns (and not removing Web), but Fire has better AoE - there is no single "best" for all play styles. Choose one, enjoy.

Either way, it's generally agreed that you now want one and only one "main" element - the 2nd element will be back up (and if you use EK, the 2nd one will be "Force" - magic missiles et al). This is because you will only have the Action Points to fully boost one or the other, not both, so one will be "as strong as possible" and anything else will be somewhere less than that.

Choose your combat spells w/ this in mind. If you're taking Fire enhancments, then Niac's is a poor choice since it's not only "not supported", but it's actually penalized by Fire Core enhancements (read the fine print!).



Skills: Most points in Spellcraft and Concentration
And 1/2 ranks in UMD? Being able to scroll Heal and Raise Dead is a critical ability, and your +Charisma will be a big help there. If the Cleric dies, who raises them? :confused:


Feats: Maximize, Empower, Spell Focus: Evocation
Many players would recommend adding Quicken to that list. Me, I don't see a strong need until your "spell rotation" is full - that is, you're no longer waiting for cooldowns during combat to cast your next attack, which often happens around Level 5 or so. THEN you can speed things up.

Otoh, if going Electric, Enlarge can be awesome, making Shocking Grasp a ranged spell, and stretching Electric Loop out to max range.

But in the end, all this is a very "ymmv" thing - playstyles vary.


Spells: Burning Hands, Niacs Cold Ray, Detect secret doors, Expeditious retreat
Again, look at the fine print under the Fire Core Enhancements - if you're boosting Fire Spellpower, you're penalizing Cold. Take Electric as your 2nd choice.

Also, Expeditious Retreat is what is known as a "Quality of Life" choice. You can farm up a couple/three sets of these (https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Anger%27s_Step) from Korthos easily, rely on them to keep you running, and swap that spell out for, say, Jump, which is a great mobility spell - keep you from getting cornered. (And there's one of your Buffs - keep it applied to any Ranged build, they'll love you.)

Similarly, DSD is handy if you're soloing, but Shield will keep you alive while your professional Searchers do the heavy lifting for your group. DSD doesn't hold a candle to Search+Int+Search gear+Int gear. (This goes double for Knock vs. a skilled Open Lock build.)


4. What spells can you recommend for the upcoming levels?
Here are some spell suggestions for diff mixes:

o https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/496211-Air-and-Water-Sorc-Spells?p=6094701&viewfull=1#post6094701
o Wizard thread, but good general discussion: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/394332-Pale-Trapper-for-new-players-(Human-18-2-Wizard-Rogue)?p=4888131&viewfull=1#post4888131
o Old 2-savant mix: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/457833-Basic-New-Player-Friendly-Sorc-Build?p=5574422&viewfull=1#post5574422
o Electric (solo) https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/415819-Farwind-An-Air-savant-Endgame-EE-DPS-Build?p=4994573&viewfull=1#post4994573
o Fire build (note: Tieflings have a natural advantage w/ Fire that gives them Fire advantages no other race can touch) https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/506304-The-Best-Way-To-Level-Fire-Sorcerer-Build?p=6221078&viewfull=1#post6221078
o General discussion https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/496691-SP-management-on-Air-Fire-Sorc-what-spells-to-use-with-full-vs-no-metas?p=6100690&viewfull=1#post6100690


1. Which kind of support can I provide? What can you recommend?
Sorcerers do fire support (in the military sense, with any element) - DPS is their strength, not buffing. Sorcerers do not have the "wide" spell selection that Wizards have - they don't have the luxury to take stuff "just for the party". But Jump, Dimension Door - those are things you can offer because you need them anyway. Never slack on DPS just to be able to do some buffing - leave that to Clerics, Bards, Rangers et al. 100% of your Buffs are chosen for selfish reasons - to keep YOU alive. See the spell suggestions for examples of DPS w/ some buffing.


2. Is the advice from DDO-Wiki to get as much SLAs as possible at the beginning still up to date?
SLA's are cheap to cast, and metamagics (Maximize, Empower, Quicken, Enlarge, etc.) do not raise that cost! Sorcerers want all they can get in their primary element(s). At very low levels, taking 2 is a good plan, but consider dropping the 2nd one as soon as you have enough spells to cover a combat rotation, so you can spend those 4-6 points on your primary Savant tree.


5. Which enhancement-progression would you recommend for the DD/Supporter-role?
One that is not a Sorcerer tree. Seriously - Sorc's should be focused on DPS. Any support they can provide is accidental.

[cru121]

Okay, seems logical, thank you. I think I'm going with Electricity for the beginning, because of cc of Electric Loop and maybe switch it with fire some time.

Do you disable Empower and Maximize when your NOT using SLAs to save spell points or do I have enough spell points to leave it active all the time?

Electric Loop is a fine choice for a support sorc, great choice.

As for metamagics, do not enable them globally. Instead, notice that when you right-click a spell or SLA on your hotbar, you can adjust which metamagic spells to use (all for SLAs, and usually none for spells).

[SirValentine]

Seriously - Sorc's should be focused on DPS. Any support they can provide is accidental.


Pure blaster is the easy obvious way to play a Sorc, but it is not the only way effective way. Depending on the group and situation, CC is often much more useful.