New player (level 14 cleric) needs team advice!

[TacRedline]

Having a blast solo so far with the quests (I read all the text) but I need advice to make sure he can do ok in teams. I guess as DPS and off-healer?

For character theme I went Cleric Warpriest: longsword, shield and casting light spells for range damage.

I went Healing Domain for extra-strength heals.

Enhancements: So far I have 40 points in Warpriest and 12 points in Divine Disciple for the feat-empowered Nimbus of Light and Searing Light attacks. Both those trees are where I want them so I plan to put points into Radiant servant for more heals. Human so i have 1 point in Human Versatality for the +4 to saves. Should I take Improved Recovery for the +20 healing amplification or just put points into Radiant Servant??

Feats: Unyielding Sovereignty, Empower/Maximize/Extend/ Spells, Mental Toughness, Weapon Focus Slashing, Improved Critical Slashing,

I like how the Unyielding Sentinel Epic looks.

Optionally for theme I'd like to take a few Paladin levels for two-handed sword but I don't know if that will work well at all.

Looking for a decent end-game build that extends this theme if possible! Or any other advice!

Thanks!

[mr420247]

If your looking for a good epic melee cleric build think those are mostly multi classes like with inquisitor or barb

Thing is the warpriest tree is the worst tree in the entire game it got the shaft cuz o falcon universal tree

Pure pallys are pretty op these days if you just want to melee and self heal

[FranOhmsford]

Having a blast solo so far with the quests (I read all the text) but I need advice to make sure he can do ok in teams. I guess as DPS and off-healer?

For character theme I went Cleric Warpriest: longsword, shield and casting light spells for range damage.

I went Healing Domain for extra-strength heals.

Enhancements: So far I have 40 points in Warpriest and 12 points in Divine Disciple for the feat-empowered Nimbus of Light and Searing Light attacks. Both those trees are where I want them so I plan to put points into Radiant servant for more heals. Human so i have 1 point in Human Versatality for the +4 to saves. Should I take Improved Recovery for the +20 healing amplification or just put points into Radiant Servant??

Feats: Unyielding Sovereignty, Empower/Maximize/Extend/ Spells, Mental Toughness, Weapon Focus Slashing, Improved Critical Slashing,

I like how the Unyielding Sentinel Epic looks.

Optionally for theme I'd like to take a few Paladin levels for two-handed sword but I don't know if that will work well at all.

Looking for a decent end-game build that extends this theme if possible! Or any other advice!

Thanks!

OK so Sword + Board unless you take a LOT of Pally {or Fighter} levels {like 12 of them at least} and put a tonne of points into Vanguard and Sacred/Stalwart Defender you're not going to be doing much Melee DPS in a group {which will be mostly on Elite or Reaper difficulties}. Also the game has mob scaling based on party size so you'll find the mobs much tougher in a full group than when you're soloing.

You'll also suffer from not having Exotic Weapon Proficiency Bastard Sword so there's really no point taking the Paladin levels for Two Handed as you'll still need the Bastard Sword feat to use that with Sword+Board.

Going with a Greatsword you're going to lose a lot of Defense for very little benefit as you don't have the feats available to you or the Enhancements to make it worthwhile {Again unless you take a tonne of Pally or Fighter levels and put those enhancement points into KotC for Pally or Kensai for Fighter.

You have to think of Warpriest as being mainly about being able to stand your ground/defend yourself when you do get attacked by mobs NOT as a way to wade in to battle when you're in groups.

Unyielding Sentinel is an extremely defensive Destiny - It's not going to give you enough offensive power to make up for being mainly Cleric. Again it's about keeping yourself alive while you're healing the party NOT wading into battle yourself.

If you're going for a Melee build why are you putting points into Divine Disciple? That Nimbus of Light and Searing Light need a lot more than 12 points in Divine Disciple to be worth it.
Or did you go max wisdom build? If so drop the melee feats, pick up a Radiant weapon for extra Light damage and a Devoted Orb for better healing.

This game promotes specialization - What are your base stats? Str, Con, Wis, Cha in particular - Those are the three main Cleric Stats + Strength if you really want to melee.

The Radiant Servant Tier 5 - Positive Energy Aura is an order of magnitude more powerful than any of the Warpriest Tier 5s - If you're going for a Healer Cleric it's Radiant Servant first, Warpriest second not the other way round.

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First we need to know your base stats though.
Especially Str, Con, Wis and Charisma.
Radiant Servant should max Charisma with Wis and Con next highest.
Divine Disciple should max Wisdom with Cha and Con next highest.
If you really want to Melee while being able to heal a party you're better off making a Bladeforged FavSoul {Which actually does give you Greatsword} or a Warchanter Bard

[Enoach]

Having a blast solo so far with the quests (I read all the text) but I need advice to make sure he can do ok in teams. I guess as DPS and off-healer?

For character theme I went Cleric Warpriest: longsword, shield and casting light spells for range damage.

I went Healing Domain for extra-strength heals.

Enhancements: So far I have 40 points in Warpriest and 12 points in Divine Disciple for the feat-empowered Nimbus of Light and Searing Light attacks. Both those trees are where I want them so I plan to put points into Radiant servant for more heals. Human so i have 1 point in Human Versatality for the +4 to saves. Should I take Improved Recovery for the +20 healing amplification or just put points into Radiant Servant??

Feats: Unyielding Sovereignty, Empower/Maximize/Extend/ Spells, Mental Toughness, Weapon Focus Slashing, Improved Critical Slashing,

I like how the Unyielding Sentinel Epic looks.

Optionally for theme I'd like to take a few Paladin levels for two-handed sword but I don't know if that will work well at all.

Looking for a decent end-game build that extends this theme if possible! Or any other advice!

Thanks!

This sounds a lot like you are looking to be a Cleric Generalist, one that is good enough at the different features of the Cleric Class - Melee, spell nuke, dc casting and healing. This is the classic cleric archetype and one I myself enjoy playing.

One of the best aspects of a generalist is that it can fit the role needed by the party and generally well.

Now on splashing, you mention Paladin levels - Possibly two. One of the things to consider when multi-classing is what are you gaining vs giving up. You mention "Paladin levels for two-handed sword". But Paladin doesn't have any specific two-handed sword benefits so this is not really clear on what you are after. However, I would like to point out that Fighter Levels really do complement a melee focus in that with two levels you get 2 feats to choose as well as all martial weapons and tower shield proficiency.

Keep in mind that the cleric spell "Divine Power" does make your melee Base Attack Bonus (BaB) equal to a fighter of the same level so staying pure cleric won't rob you of the BaB.

On the Extend Metamagic - This is a great feat for all buff spells at lower levels, however, as you gain level (around 10th) the benefits it has for spells that are 1 Minute per caster level start to diminish. This is mostly because of distance between shrines vs cost. 20+ minutes of buffs looks neat but if you shrine within the next 10 minutes you just spent spell points you could have used for CC, Instant kill or healing. On spells like "Divine Power" which are not 1 minute per caster level it has more value but I recommend looking at if it is worth it, 3 to 5 minutes between rebuffing can save on having to do that, but if you are only spending a fraction of that time utilizing the buff it may not be worth it.

Actual example from years ago on my wizard using Haste. I had a party member that only wanted an extended Haste would complain if not given one. After monitoring them for awhile I discovered that they spent 1/2 the time of the haste actually using the buff (combat/running) the other 1/2 of the time was wasted while they spent time looting the chest (picking which items and seeing if someone else got something they wanted). Needless to say, non-extended haste was used from that point on and they had it when it was needed.

On your domain choice of Heal. It is a nice domain to boost healing. But of all the features of the Cleric class, healing is so naturally strong already. I would have recommended picking a different domain to better flesh out your theme. Possibly the "War Domain" which would have given you martial & exotic weapon proficiency and at level 14 the Holy Sword spell. Or if you wanted more focus elsewhere like light spells - Sun Domain. Or if you felt you wanted to boost your ability to turn undead or use negative energy the Death Domain. Again, there is nothing wrong with the Heal Domain, it is just that it is best lent to builds that need to boost their healing capabilities due to trade offs or to someone building to primarily sit in the Primary Healing Role.


Also, never believe the "Cleric is to stay in the back and heal" line. We can be where we are needed, be that up front preventing damage to the glass canons, in the middle using our CC abilities or in the back keeping the party on its feat - Combat the cleric is always in triage mode making sure each party member is serving their highest and best use (and sometimes that is letting them die from their own stupidity)

Edit: Just a note on weapons. I found it was best to focus on utility weapons vs trying to go pure DPS. This is the Vorpal, Smite, Banish, Disrupt, stat damage types as well as look for weapons that have secondary damage effects or debuffs.

[FranOhmsford]

Also, never believe the "Cleric is to stay in the back and heal" line. We can be where we are needed, be that up front preventing damage to the glass canons, in the middle using our CC abilities or in the back keeping the party on its feat - Combat the cleric is always in triage mode making sure each party member is serving their highest and best use (and sometimes that is letting them die from their own stupidity)

If this is aimed at my reply that's not really what I was saying.

I was simply saying that charging into battle EXPECTING to do lots of melee damage {whether with Sword+Board or with a Greatsword on a Cleric in EE and R1+ Epics which is what most GROUPS are running {and the OP did ask about Group Play} is a recipe for disaster.

Yes it can be done but we're talking about a first life character with no past lives, no fate points and who's going to need to farm out a lot of top tier gear to get to that point - Heck considering he's spent 53 enhancement points he''s currently only Lvl 13-15!

Now if he wants to go Combat Cleric and stand in the middle of the mobs HEALING whilst doing a bit of damage himself with that sword and board then he's going to want Burst and AURA! He's also going to want QUICKEN to get those Mass Heals off {Whoops didn't notice earlier but he hasn't got QUICKEN!} on an 18/2 Cleric/Pally or Cleric/Fighter.
And the DPS of his sword+board {or greatsword} is going to be very much secondary to his turtle-up defensive bonuses!
Also - The Divine Disciple stuff is a complete waste of Enhancement Points for this style of play - If you want to take out Archers grab a Vorpal Bow and just wait for those 20s on the Dice :)

[Coffey]

Three levels of Paladin will allow you to use Greatsword as your favored weapon regardless of the religion you have chosen. You can also add AP to the warpriest tree righteous weapons enhancements and gain benefit from it as well. Human gives 20% strike through enhancement as does knight of the chalice for 40% total.

So its another avenue to take may lead somewhere but havent tested it any further than a level 7 toon.

[Enoach]

If this is aimed at my reply that's not really what I was saying.

I was simply saying that charging into battle EXPECTING to do lots of melee damage {whether with Sword+Board or with a Greatsword on a Cleric in EE and R1+ Epics which is what most GROUPS are running {and the OP did ask about Group Play} is a recipe for disaster.

Yes it can be done but we're talking about a first life character with no past lives, no fate points and who's going to need to farm out a lot of top tier gear to get to that point - Heck considering he's spent 53 enhancement points he''s currently only Lvl 13-15!

Now if he wants to go Combat Cleric and stand in the middle of the mobs HEALING whilst doing a bit of damage himself with that sword and board then he's going to want Burst and AURA! He's also going to want QUICKEN to get those Mass Heals off {Whoops didn't notice earlier but he hasn't got QUICKEN!} on an 18/2 Cleric/Pally or Cleric/Fighter.
And the DPS of his sword+board {or greatsword} is going to be very much secondary to his turtle-up defensive bonuses!
Also - The Divine Disciple stuff is a complete waste of Enhancement Points for this style of play - If you want to take out Archers grab a Vorpal Bow and just wait for those 20s on the Dice :)

Short answer is no. I believe you were talking about the war priest tree, we will just disagree on it being the "worst" tree and leave it at that as we both have different ideas of how a cleric should play :).

I disagree that any aspect is a "waste" but again I don't play a cleric as a specialist as your initial post says is rewarded, a generalist is a much broader concept and is much more flexible, in fact it works much better going through a wider variety of epic destinies when a player gets there for the first time.

Again, it appears we have a different view on clerics my view is developed from the DnD pen and paper days of Basic and Advanced as well as my 3.5, pathfinder and now 5e experience. There is nothing wrong with specializing, it is just my opinion that it is a waste to not utilize all facets of a class.

[FranOhmsford]

Short answer is no. I believe you were talking about the war priest tree, we will just disagree on it being the "worst" tree and leave it at that as we both have different ideas of how a cleric should play :).

It's not as good as it should be - Again my real issue with Cleric is as it has been since the trees were added and Positive Energy Aura was put in Tier FIVE! Locking out the Tier 5 Warpriest abilities as Aura is specifically FOR clerics who want to stand in the middle of the battle!


I disagree that any aspect is a "waste" but again I don't play a cleric as a specialist as your initial post says is rewarded, a generalist is a much broader concept and is much more flexible, in fact it works much better going through a wider variety of epic destinies when a player gets there for the first time.

How much damage is he really gonna do with those DD pew pew spells without max wisdom and a tonne of extra boosts that he won't get from Warpriest and won't be able to spend in DD if he wants to go into Pally trees for more melee stuff!

DD Nimbus and Searing Light may be cheap but they're not free and they don't even take 10% of the hps off EE Skelly Archers which is probably what he's gonna want them for.
He may as well just drop those points in DD and grab a Vorpal bow.


Again, it appears we have a different view on clerics my view is developed from the DnD pen and paper days of Basic and Advanced as well as my 3.5, pathfinder and now 5e experience. There is nothing wrong with specializing, it is just my opinion that it is a waste to not utilize all facets of a class.

I only WISH D&D would allow me to play a PnP style Cleric - My issue is it doesn't!

I solo or duo far more than group and I know just how little damage a Cleric does even in EHs never mind EEs. {And that's without full party scaling!}.

Standing back and Healing is very rare because I don't RAID much at all! And when I do group it's usually with the entire party going **** for leather wasting all the mobs before I even get to them.

I don't think the OP's considering just running through quests dropping Blade Barriers every 3 seconds from the tone of his original post :)

Personally I've asked for the Devs to give Clerics a break so as we can do all the things a Cleric should be able to do many times - Every time I've been ignored and/or shouted down!

Turn Undead for instance is STILL useless in EE right?