U45 THF Paladin for Racial Lives

[Tobril]

Build Purpose:

Pick up racial past lives on a high DPS and survivable melee platform.
Perform exceptionally well in some raids: Shroud, Killing Time, Strahd, Too Hot to Handle
Perform adequately in other raids.
Perform adequately in high reaper content.


Out of Scope:

Purple Dragon Knight build with Charisma Focus
Iconics which require a +1 Heart (Silvanus/Maul Builds)


Tome requirements:

+3 Dexterity - if you don't have this take Power Attack at level 3 instead of Precision OR spend more build points on dexterity.

If you play race with a Dexterity penalty you can lower your pick of Strength or Constitution OR take Power Attack.

Non 36 point builds can also just take Power Attack and potentially drop Intimidate or UMD.


Skills
Heal, Intimidate - Max these out, if solo leveling take Balance instead of Intimidate
UMD, Jump (If you stay capped more than leveling you can get away with just 1 UMD and skip Jump)


Enhancements

https://i.imgur.com/VSH0G1a.png

Knight of the Chalice (41 points, the Maetrim planner has an incorrect cost for Divine Might)

Divine Might - Despite current itemization not allowing for the full attack/damage, the tactics bonus is still reason enough to justify this choice.

Exalted and Avenging Cleave - These are on the same timer as Cleave and Great Cleave, so don't take the corresponding feats.

Holy Combatant II - Required only if using a Greatsword.

Censure Outsiders - This stuns most reapers (not dooms)

Holy Retribution - Usable all the way to level 30 R10.

Champion of Good (Capstone) - Fully stacked on Undead or Evil Outsiders you'll have 125 extra Melee Power. To put it in perspective, that's a double Master's Blitz.


Sacred Defender (31 Points)

Turn your stance off for:
Running in Fury of the Wild (you lose rage benefits)
When not tanking a raid boss and you don't need the extra defenses. The +6 Strength doesn't justify the extra threat, plus it's likely you'll have a Primal Scream available from another party member.

You can take Charisma or Constitution. I chose Charisma for Lay on Hands, Saves, and another charge of Confront any Foe from Crusader destiny.

Epic Defensive Fighting stacks with your Stance benefits. Turn them both on every time you log into the character. (Exception - competence HP which you shouldn't take for this reason)

Be careful with your Stance in raids, 150% threat can be problematic for tanks. It's OK to turn off the stance if you are at risk of pulling aggro of a dangerous boss. (No you didn't have aggro on Arraetrikos, he is random)

Core 4 adds various resurrection options to your spell list.
Core 5 is exceptional for your survivability.


Leftover Enhancements (8 points, plus tomes and past lives)

Your pick of racial/universal.

Melee Power boost, attack and damage, more smites, and Lead the Charge from Chalice are nice.

I like Falconry for Sprint boost.

You could also pick up Deflect Arrows from Vistani (you're not using daggers, just taking a small side trip)

Bladeforged and Half Orc have extremely strong racial AP and you should definitely take a large amount of their trees.

If you take Vangaurd I will log into your account and delete all your shields.


Feat Considerations

You can drop Empower healing and Intensify for Toughness and Epic Toughness.
Stunning Blow works well for me as a result of past lives, if you have trouble you can take Power Attack or Precision to have both feats as needed.
Perfect THF has been changed to Strikethrough + Melee Power and is quite worth taking now.
Quicken is essential in my mind for the speed.


Spell List

1) Lesser Restoration
2) Angleskin, Righteous Command, Resist Energy
3) Magic Circle, Remove Curse, Prayer
4) Holy Sword, Zeal, Cure Serious, Your choice of: Deathward, Break Enchantment, Neutralize Poison (good for underdark drow to prevent their poison stun)


Notes on New and Changed Spells

Prayer now scales to 5, the debuff portion has no save and can help your entire group land tactics and spells.
Angelskin now gives Sacred (stacking with most things) to AC and PRR
Righteous Command gives up to 15 Melee Power (new spell in U45)


Destiny

Fury

I've had good results with Adrenaline + Exalted Smite.


Dread

Much higher DPS in general. Especially so if you have helpless monsters. You should always be under boost, even if just sprint boost, for the +1W and helpless damage multiplier.


Crusader

I tried Crusader for the first time in ~4 years, it's great! Quite useful for increasing solo reaper to 4 without much struggle and vastly helping during R6-ish with random melee types and no tank or healer.

Bombard did little to nothing R4 up, it may have use on Elite or lower.

Spending points in this destiny has some awkward "off by one" issues high in the tree. Gaining/losing Strength could help the above layout by removing Bow and Interrogation for Smite the Wicked.


Fatesinger

This is surprisingly strong for being forced to level the Arcane sphere. The epic moment in combination with Confront any Foe is possibly the highest melee burst DPS available.


Classes: 20 Paladin

Str:· · 16 (All Level Ups Here)
Dex:· · 10 (+3 Dexterity tome required for Precision)
Con:· · 18
Int:· · 10
Wis:· · ·8
Cha:· · ·14


Feats:

I recommend Sovereign Host Deity for the level 6 "Big Heal" ability.

More advanced options are discussed later in the thread in comments. I've adjusted this list to be more friendly to new/returning players who are still gaining familiarity with current game meta.

Feel free to adjust to your own personal taste.

1) Two Handed Fighting
3) Precision (Requires 13 DEX by this level. You can take Power Attack instead and that's OK)
6) Improved Two Handed Fighting (Unyielding Sovereignty)
9) Improved Critical: Slashing
12) Greater Two Handed Fighting
15) Force of Personality
18) Quicken Spell or Toughness
21) Overwhelming Critical
24) Epic Toughness (Toughness if you took Quicken Spell)
26) Perfect Two Handed Fighting
27) Blinding Speed
28) Perfect Two Weapon Fighting (This gives you 5% doublestrike even if you are Two Handed Fighting)
29) Dire Charge
30) Your choice of what was already mentioned or one of:
Empower Healing (Good for EE or lower, maybe R1 if you slotted devotion)
Quickdraw
Improved Sunder (requires Power Attack, this is mainly for raids)
Power Attack (If you have high to-hit and fortification bypass, toggle between this and Precision as needed)
30) Scion of Aborea



Active Destiny Tree
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Legendary Dreadnought - Points spent: 24
1 Core ·(0) Shrug Off Punishment
2 Core ·(0) Action Hero
3 Core ·(0) Unstoppable
4 Core ·(0) Unmovable
5 Core ·(0) Thick Skinned
6 Core ·(0) Combat Brute
7 Tier1 (1) Legendary Tactics
8 Tier1 (1) Legendary Tactics
9 Tier1 (1) Legendary Tactics
10 Tier1 (1) Extra Action Boost
11 Tier1 (1) Extra Action Boost
12 Tier1 (1) Extra Action Boost
13 Tier1 (1) Action Boost Attack
14 Tier2 (1) Action Boost Power
15 Tier2 (1) Momentum Swing
16 Tier2 (1) Momentum Swing
17 Tier2 (1) Momentum Swing
18 Tier3 (2) Lay Waste
19 Tier3 (1) Action Boost Haste
20 Tier3 (1) Action Boost Haste
21 Tier3 (1) Action Boost Haste
22 Tier5 (2) Devastating Critical
23 Tier5 (2) Advancing Blows
24 Tier6 (2) Master's Blitz: Masters Blitz: PRR
25 Tier4 (2) Unusual Tactics
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OR

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Fury of the Wild - Points spent: 24
1 Core ·(0) Adrenaline I
2 Core ·(0) Brawn I
3 Core ·(0) Adrenaline II
4 Core ·(0) Brawn II
5 Core ·(0) Adrenaline III
6 Core ·(0) Adrenaline Overload
7 Tier1 (1) Primal Scream
8 Tier1 (1) Primal Scream
9 Tier1 (1) Primal Scream
10 Tier1 (1) Tunnel Vision
11 Tier2 (1) Acute Instincts
12 Tier2 (1) Acute Instincts
13 Tier2 (1) Acute Instincts
14 Tier1 (1) Tunnel Vision
15 Tier3 (1) Malicious Weapons
16 Tier3 (1) Malicious Weapons
17 Tier3 (1) Malicious Weapons
18 Tier1 (1) Tunnel Vision
19 Tier4 (1) Sense Weakness
20 Tier4 (1) Sense Weakness
21 Tier4 (1) Sense Weakness
22 Tier4 (1) Overwhelming Force
23 Tier5 (2) Devastating Blow
24 Tier5 (1) Fury Eternal
25 Tier5 (1) Strong Swings
26 Tier6 (2) Unbridled Fury
27 Tier6 (1) Bloodbath
28 Tier4 (1) Overwhelming Force
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OR

Note: I'm running a little different than this currently...picking up a point of strength to even me out and dropping less useful things near the bottom of the tree. Bow is also optional, it's just a nice to have to help out a bit in Project Nemesis and other ranged only times.

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Divine Crusader - Points spent: 24
1 Core ·(0) Just Cause
2 Core ·(0) Aura of Purification
3 Core ·(0) Extraordinary Virtue
4 Core ·(0) No Remorse
5 Core ·(0) Sword of Justice
6 Core ·(0) Zeal of the Righteous
7 Tier1 (1) Endless Turning
8 Tier1 (1) Endless Turning
9 Tier1 (1) Endless Turning
10 Tier1 (1) Purge the Wicked
11 Tier2 (1) Consecration
12 Tier2 (1) Consecration
13 Tier2 (1) Consecration
14 Tier2 (2) Confront Any Foe
15 Tier3 (2) Sacred Ground
16 Tier1 (1) Interrogation
17 Tier4 (2) Crusade
18 Tier4 (2) No Regret
19 Tier5 (2) Castigation
20 Tier5 (2) Celestial Champion
21 Tier6 (2) Strike Down
22 Tier6 (1) The Book of War: Wrath of the Divine
23 Tier4 (1) The Book of War: Longbow
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Build in Action!


Low gear/life version:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJWFoHFxXmw



Moderately geared with some past lives:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0O3UH1vars



https://www.twitch.tv/tobril (I'm playing this build as of 3-10-2020 and for the next month or so)



1-20, aka I didn't talk about the leveling process one bit :P

Here's a video a friend of mine recorded to discuss his experiences leveling the build.

The original audience of this post was for experienced builders and did not take into account the sudden influx of new/returning players.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNWDrIa-jBs&feature=youtu.be&list=PLzxPAPYYBTA4-VdIGVBI6UKIdx1g3t0n9

[Tobril]

Entry Level

This list makes use of relatively easy and/or old gear that is all bound to account and relatively recyclable.

Head: Umber Brim
Neck: Family Recruit Sigil
Trinket: Slavelords (Sheltering, Resistance, Shatter 20, 4 Strength)
Cloak: Mantle of Fury
Belt: Vistani Fighter Sash
Ring (Swap) Celestial Ruby (Dexterity)
Gloves: Hammerfist
Boots: Flightfoot Greaves
Ring (Perm) Celestial Topaz (Charisma)
Bracers: Bracers of the Fallen Hero
Armour: Enforcer Plate
Goggles: Garstone

Weapon: Barovian/Nightmother/Syranian

More options and discussions here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/512135-Gearing-a-Pally-without-raid-gear


Some Raiding

This is just one possibility and illustrates how you can slide into a stronger list once you collect raid gear and the "correct" artifact.

Strength gearing is currently driving me a bit mad. I'm listing multiple ideas for inspiration purposes. Feel free to experiment and work with what you have.

Head: Arcsteel Brim
Neck: Family Recruit Sigil
Trinket: Bloodrage Chrism
Cloak: Mantle of Fury
Belt: Slavelords (Sheltering, Resistance, Shatter 20, 4 Strength)
Ring (Swap) Celestial Ruby (Dexterity)
Gloves: Hammerfist
Boots: Flightfoot Greaves
Ring (Perm) Celestial Topaz (Charisma)
Bracers: Brand of Kalok Shash
Armour: Enforcer Plate
Goggles: Collective Sight (Wisdom, Insightful Strength)

Missing/Problems: Overlapping Sheltering, low HP


Head: Mask of the Vulkoorim
Neck: The Family's Blessing (Raid Necklace for Part of the Family)
Trinket: Bloodrage Chrism
Cloak: Cloak of the City's Champion
Belt: Slavelords (Sheltering, Positive Spellpower, Heal 22, 4 Charisma)
Ring (Swap) Celestial Sapphire (Constitution)
Gloves: Hammerfist
Boots: Softsole Slippers
Ring (Perm) Signet of ir'Wynam
Bracers: Sunken Chains
Armour: Enforcer Plate
Goggles: Collective Sight (Strength, Insightful Strength)

Missing: Blurry, Quality Damage, Accuracy, Relentless Fury, Quality Tactics


Best I can do so far for Strength:

Head: Mask of the Vulkoorim
Neck: The Family's Blessing (Raid Necklace for Part of the Family) (Have the other neck and/or True Seeing scrolls as needed)
Trinket: Bloodrage Chrism
Cloak: Cloak of the City's Champion (Cloak of Balance with CON, use when freedom needed or to add a bit of DPS)
Belt: Slavelords (Sheltering, Positive Spellpower 185, Shatter 20, 4 Strength)
Ring (Swap) Celestial Ruby (crafted stat overlaps with other slots...maybe Intelligence and a swap for LGS INT skills to search doors?)
Gloves: Hammerfist
Boots: Sunken Slippers (Charisma) (Softsole Slippers for more Confront any Foe, Piston Boots for higher tactics)
Ring (Perm) Celestial Topaz (Charisma)
Bracers: Brand of Kalok Shash
Armour: Enforcer Plate
Goggles: Collective Sight (Constitution, Insightful Strength)

Missing: True Seeing, Relentless Fury
Other Requirements: Swap a feat for Force of Personality to correct a soft Will save.


Weapon: Sanctity/Blackrazer/Salt LGS


End Game

This is provisional for a Charisma based PDK. New gear is coming and any final list is subject to frequent tinkering.

Head: Executioner Helm
Neck: Family Blessing (Raid Necklace)
Trinket: Bloodrage Chrism
Cloak: Cloak of Balance
Belt: Slavelords (Sheltering, Resistance, Shatter 20, 4 Charisma)
Ring (Swap) Celestial Sapphire (Constitution)
Gloves: Hammerfist
Boots: Softsole Slippers
Ring (Perm) Radiant Ring of Taer Valaestas
Bracers: Hallowed Castigator OR Slavelords (Strength, Armour Piercing, Stunning, Quality PRR || MRR)
Armour: Enforcer Plate
Goggles: Collective Sight (Charisma, Insightful Constitution)

Weapon: Upgraded Blackrazer (Maybe Tremor)


Filigrees

Option 1

5 prowess
5 Sanctified (60 seconds of 30 Melee Power after a Smite or Confront any Foe)
1 Your pick

Option 2

5 prowess
6 Full Sucker Punch and One Against Many (Raid, 2 Sucker Punch, 3 One Against Many)

Option 3

5 prowess
3 Sucker Punch/ One Against Many (focus on Melee Power)
3 To **** and Back/Embraced by Light (focus on your choice of Charisma or Amp)

[palladin9479]

Get rid of Exalted Smite, it's terrible and a huge noob bait. Divine sacrifice with 1 AP invested does almost the same thing and doesn't need charges.
Get rid of the metamagics outside of maybe Empowered Heal, they are a waste and there are better things to work with.
Slot in Quick Draw, it'll dramatically reduce the wait time after using your Spells and SLA's. For Paladin Lay on Hands and Remove Disease are treated as SLA's along with Dire Charge.
Force of Personality is a must have around mid to late heroics and definitely into Epics. Humans can take it as the bonus feat at level 1, everyone else can get it at level 15 where Sharn gear becomes available and we get access to eas Charisma boosting items.

18 vs 14 CON isn't going to change anything but the extra CHA does. Dragonborn will require a few more points into Dex.

Base stat distribution before racial bonus's.
STR: 18
DEX: 10
CON: 14
INT: 10
WIS: 8
CHA: 16

43 Points will be in KoTC, 31 in Sacred Defender leaving 6 point spare for Racial or whatever. Some races let you take useful stuff, otherwise put in bonus things.


Character name: Paladin
Classes: 20 Paladin, 10 Epic
Race: Human · · · · · · · ·Alignment: Lawful Good

· · ·Start Tome Final
Str:· · 18· · 8 · ·36 · · ·HP:· · · · 873 · · ·AC:· · 59
Dex:· · 10· · 8 · ·19 · · ·PRR: · · · ·26
Con:· · 14· · 8 · ·22 · · ·MRR: · · · · 7 · · ·+Healing Amp:· ·120
Int:· · 10· · 8 · ·18 · · ·Dodge: · ·1/25 · · ·-Healing Amp: 4294967251
Wis:· · ·8· · 8 · ·16 · · ·Fort:· · · 10% · · ·Repair Amp:· · · 15
Cha:· · 16· · 8 · ·30 · · ·SR:· · · · · 0 · · ·BAB: · · · · · · 20
DR:
Immunities: Natural Disease, Magical Disease, Super-Natural Disease, Fear, Energy Drain, Magical Controls and Compulsion

Class and Feat Selection
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Level Class · · · · · ·Feats
1 · · Paladin(1)· · · ·Standard: Two Handed Fighting
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Human Bonus: Empty Feat Slot
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Follower of Faith: Follower of the Sovereign Host
2 · · Paladin(2)· · · ·
3 · · Paladin(3)· · · ·Standard: Precision
4 · · Paladin(4)· · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
5 · · Paladin(5)· · · ·
6 · · Paladin(6)· · · ·Standard: Improved Two Handed Fighting
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Deity: Unyielding Sovereignty
7 · · Paladin(7)· · · ·
8 · · Paladin(8)· · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
9 · · Paladin(9)· · · ·Standard: Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
10· · Paladin(10) · · ·
11· · Paladin(11) · · ·
12· · Paladin(12) · · ·Standard: Greater Two Handed Fighting
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
13· · Paladin(13) · · ·
14· · Paladin(14) · · ·
15· · Paladin(15) · · ·Standard: Force of Personality
16· · Paladin(16) · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
17· · Paladin(17) · · ·
18· · Paladin(18) · · ·Standard: Quick Draw
19· · Paladin(19) · · ·
20· · Paladin(20) · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
21· · Epic(1) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Overwhelming Critical
22· · Epic(2) · · · · ·
23· · Epic(3) · · · · ·
24· · Epic(4) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Empty Feat Slot
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
25· · Epic(5) · · · · ·
26· · Epic(6) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
27· · Epic(7) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Blinding Speed
28· · Epic(8) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Strength: +1 Level up
29· · Epic(9) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Dire Charge
30· · Epic(10)· · · · ·Epic Feat: Empty Feat Slot
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Legendary: Scion of Arborea

Enhancements: 80 APs, Racial 4, Universal 1
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Knight of the Chalice - Points spent: 43
1 Core ·(1) Slayer of Evil I
2 Tier1 (2) Holy Combatant I
3 Tier1 (1) Improved Second Strikes
4 Tier1 (1) Improved Second Strikes
5 Tier1 (1) Shieldbeaker
6 Tier1 (1) Shieldbeaker
7 Core ·(1) Courage of Heaven
8 Tier2 (2) Adept Combatant
9 Core ·(1) Slayer of Evil II
10 Tier1 (1) Shieldbeaker
11 Tier2 (2) Divine Might
12 Tier2 (2) Divine Might
13 Tier2 (2) Divine Might
14 Tier3 (2) Holy Combatant II
15 Tier4 (2) Knight's Training
16 Tier3 (2) Ability I: +1 Strength
17 Tier4 (2) Ability II: +1 Strength
18 Core ·(1) Improved Courage of Heaven
19 Tier2 (2) Exalted Attack: Exalted Cleave
20 Tier4 (1) Censure Demons
21 Core ·(1) Slayer of Evil III
22 Tier1 (1) Improved Second Strikes
23 Tier5 (2) Ascendancy
24 Tier5 (1) Censure Outsiders
25 Tier4 (2) Vigor of Life I
26 Tier5 (2) Vigor of Life II
27 Tier5 (2) Avenging Attack: Avenging Cleave
28 Tier5 (1) Holy Retribution: Holy Retribution
29 Core ·(1) Champion of Good
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Sacred Defender - Points spent: 31
1 Core ·(1) Holy Bastion
2 Tier1 (1) Extra Lay on Hands
3 Tier1 (1) Extra Lay on Hands
4 Tier1 (1) Extra Lay on Hands
5 Tier1 (1) Improved Sacred Defense I: Durable Defense
6 Tier1 (1) Improved Sacred Defense I: Durable Defense
7 Tier1 (1) Improved Sacred Defense I: Durable Defense
8 Core ·(1) Sacred Defence
9 Tier2 (1) Bulwark Aura
10 Tier2 (1) Bulwark Aura
11 Tier2 (1) Improved Sacred Defense II: Resilient Defense
12 Tier2 (1) Improved Sacred Defense II: Resilient Defense
13 Tier2 (1) Improved Sacred Defense II: Resilient Defense
14 Tier3 (1) Greater Sacred Defense I: Strong Defense
15 Tier3 (1) Greater Sacred Defense I: Strong Defense
16 Tier3 (1) Greater Sacred Defense I: Strong Defense
17 Core ·(1) Divine Righteousness
18 Tier3 (2) Ability I: +1 Charisma
19 Tier2 (1) Bulwark Aura
20 Core ·(1) Redemption
21 Tier4 (2) Ability II: +1 Charisma
22 Tier4 (1) Greater Sacred Defense II: Hardy Defense
23 Tier4 (1) Greater Sacred Defense II: Hardy Defense
24 Tier4 (1) Greater Sacred Defense II: Hardy Defense
25 Tier4 (1) Reinforced Defense I: Reinforced Armor
26 Tier4 (1) Reinforced Defense I: Reinforced Armor
27 Tier4 (1) Reinforced Defense I: Reinforced Armor
28 Tier4 (1) Swift Defense
29 Core ·(1) Glorious Stand
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I've run this build and others very similar to it dozens of times now. It's how I got the majority of my Racial and Epic past lives, it's super strong for soloing R1 content to get the 195% First time bonus on quests.
I haven't had a problem with the +150% Threat generation but I can see how it might be an issue if the Raid tank isn't really good, so be ready to disable as needed.

This is what we get from it.
Sacred Defense
+25 PRR / MRR
+3 Saving Throw
+6 Strength
+6 Constitution
+10% Movement Speed
+150% Melee Threat Generation

Your build was almost the same as mine, just you had some noob bait in there and some wasted feat slots. I don't bother slotting Stunning Blow because it's overshadowed entirely by dire charge in epics, and in heroics things are dead within a few swings and it doesn't work on lots of stuff that Paladin's like to fight, namely undead.

[palladin9479]

For epics, Legendary Dreadnought or Divine Crusader. LD will do a bit more damage, DC makes you practically invincible and is incredibly useful for soloing Reaper content. Most of the time I'm in Divine Crusader, if I'm in a group with a healer that isn't using crossbows, then I can switch to LD.

Divine Crusader


Divine Crusader - Points spent: 24
1 Core ·(0) Just Cause
2 Tier1 (1) Endless Turning
3 Tier1 (1) Endless Turning
4 Core ·(0) Aura of Purification
5 Tier1 (1) Endless Turning
6 Core ·(0) Extraordinary Virtue
7 Core ·(0) No Remorse
8 Core ·(0) Sword of Justice
9 Core ·(0) Zeal of the Righteous
10 Tier1 (2) Ability I: +1 Strength
11 Tier2 (1) Consecration
12 Tier2 (1) Consecration
13 Tier2 (1) Consecration
14 Tier3 (2) Sacred Ground
15 Tier2 (2) Confront Any Foe
16 Tier4 (2) No Regret
17 Tier4 (2) Crusade
18 Tier5 (2) Castigation
19 Tier5 (2) Celestial Champion
20 Tier6 (1) The Book of War: Wrath of the Divine
21 Tier2 (2) Ability II: +1 Strength
22 Tier1 (1) Purge the Wicked
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Strike Down and Celestial Bombardment deserve mention. SD will do a lot of damage, the 500 Light damage scales with 200% melee power meaning it's 3,000-4,000 damage on top of the regular hits. It costs 2 points through and Confront and Foe is so ridiculous that I found I was rarely using SD. Celestial Bombardment is a super fun crown control spell, it's damage won't be much on Paladin but it's three sequential reflex saves that everyone around you (cause EDF) must make or they fall down. It works on stuff that Trip and Dire Charge don't and it's only 20SP. Problem is the 60s cooldown making it super situational. So if someone wants those they can forgo the +2 Strength for them.

No Remorse also deserves mention because it's probably the strongest part of that ED. No Remorse gives you, and everyone around you, a heal whenever a monster dies that had your Aura of Purification on it. The amount of HP healed is the CR of the monster, meaning a CR60 monster gives everyone 60 * Heal Amp HP. For a KoTC Paladin with ~300 Heal Amp that's 240 HP that is not reduced by reaper. If we kill a group of seven CR60 monsters, that is 1680 HP. Anyone standing nearby also gets healed, the more things that die the more HP that gets restored. No Remorse turns every monster into a portable Mass Cure Serious Wounds. Consecration is also a nice bonus as it heals anyone standing on it and gives them a +10% damage bonus, boss's like to jump away from it though.



Active Destiny Tree
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Legendary Dreadnought - Points spent: 24
1 Core ·(0) Shrug Off Punishment
2 Core ·(0) Action Hero
3 Core ·(0) Unstoppable
4 Core ·(0) Unmovable
5 Core ·(0) Thick Skinned
6 Core ·(0) Combat Brute
7 Tier1 (1) Legendary Tactics
8 Tier1 (1) Legendary Tactics
9 Tier1 (1) Extra Action Boost
10 Tier1 (1) Extra Action Boost
11 Tier1 (1) Legendary Tactics
12 Tier1 (1) Extra Action Boost
13 Tier1 (2) Ability I: +1 Strength
14 Tier2 (2) Ability II: +1 Strength
15 Tier3 (1) Action Boost Haste
16 Tier3 (1) Action Boost Haste
17 Tier3 (1) Action Boost Haste
18 Tier3 (1) Critical Damage
19 Tier3 (1) Critical Damage
20 Tier3 (1) Critical Damage
21 Tier4 (2) Unusual Tactics
22 Tier5 (2) Advancing Blows
23 Tier5 (2) Devastating Critical
24 Tier6 (2) Master's Blitz: Masters Blitz: PRR
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Lay Waste is noob bait, especially on a THF, due to it's stupid reset conditions. Momentum Swing is nice and KoTC can reset it pretty reliably, but Confront and Foe is much better. Action Boost Haste is nice due to Paladin not getting it naturally, the other two are more noob bait and should be avoided like the plague.

Note on Blitz with THF builds, I have a love / haste relationship with that ability. If I'm solo I'm running DC for the near invulnerability No Remorse gives, if I'm in a group then it's hit or miss if Inquisitive's are kiting monsters everyone or Fire Sorcs are blowing them up. Either of those happen then Blitz becomes extremely difficult to maintain, if I can keep that from happening then it's pretty impressive how much melee power a KoTC can run with. Other week we were doing a PN raid and I had over 400 melee power and CAF was tearing everything apart.

[Tobril]

I have good luck with the knockdown from Lay Waste, as well as having an extra stun cooldown for casters and such just out of Dire Charge range.

While I haven't put twists in the post yet, (oops) 100% agree Confront any Foe is really useful for burning down Dooms during the prowess activation. It's also better now that it no longer "loses" charges.

Quick Draw hitting spells and SLAs must be new, it used to just help boost activation. I'll have to take it for a spin next life. Intensify could easily go by the wayside for this, as it's literally only for CSW.

Stunning Blow could also be Improved Sunder and a slight change to your dread enhancements could be useful as well. I had pretty good results fooling with it on Lammania after the Sunder changes.

[Tobril]

I have the other action boosts in dread primarily for cheap prowess activations in quests with more than two dozen packs and in other places where I'd like to be under boost while saving the more effective boosts for bosses or Dooms.

Momentum swing is a little better than it used to be after the THF pass with regards to animations.

Destiny choice is certainly a matter of group composition. I rarely have trouble with a failure to launch and maintain due to my own circumstances.

Fury allows for some interesting execute phase damage that dread can't even come close to matching. Fortunately a couple of buttons is all it takes to swap :)

[palladin9479]

I have good luck with the knockdown from Lay Waste, as well as having an extra stun cooldown for casters and such just out of Dire Charge range.

Lay Waste is really nice, the issue is the same as bombardment, 60s cooldown. Only momentum swing can reset it and only some of the time (25%), momentum swing itself has a 60s cooldown that can be reset by alternating two 6s cleaves with a 50% chance each. It's the whole resting thing, and there are other places to put points that give a bigger return.

For KoTC Paladin Sanctified Fervor is better then Prowess. Prowess is +50 melee power for 10s of a 20s action boost, or 50% of the time while under any action boost. Fervor is +25 melee power for 60s anytime you use any smite. Confront and Foe is a smite, which is why it activate that ability. Paladin's natural smites recharge every 60s and with Endless Turn Undead TU charges reset every 96, that means you can have Fervor up 100% of the time. Smite evil doesn't have to actually hit anything to activate the ability, you can smite air while running and it'll still give you the +25 Melee Power.


Quick Draw hitting spells and SLAs must be new, it used to just help boost activation. I'll have to take it for a spin next life. Intensify could easily go by the wayside for this, as it's literally only for CSW.

Quick Draw is something not spoken about but it's secondary effects are a result of a nerf Turbine did a very long time ago. Way back in the day we could reset animation frames by just switching weapons, think of it as twitching but faster and done by just pushing 1, then 2, then 1, then 2 and so forth. To "fix" this they forced a delay every time you "change" weapons, which had the other effect of putting that delay after almost everything with a unique animation. Lay on Hands, Remove Disease, Consecration, Power Surge, One with the Blade, lots of stuff the game considers "casting" for some reason.



Momentum swing is a little better than it used to be after the THF pass with regards to animations.

Normally I use Momentum Swing a lot, it's a pillar of my DPS combo in most builds. Since playing around with the new KoTC enhancements in epics I found that I rarely use Momentum Swing anymore, to the point I just stopped putting points into it. Strike Down counts as a "Cleave" so would also reset Momentum, I use to use Strike Down + Avenging + Exalted and always had it reset within 3~8 seconds. Confront Any Foe has become so powerful (it already was pretty strong), I'm standing at over 30 charges, that happen to recharge too, and I just walk up to stuff and it dies. So now I no longer use Momentum or Strike Down, just CAF or if needed the two normal cleaves.

For those wondering, CAF rolls a double strike on each of it's three hits, meaning near cap it's going to be hitting 5 to 6 attacks per charge in an AoE cone in front of the player. It does 3 attacks at +3W and 10D10 (average 55) light power that scaled with 300% melee power. Now factor in double strikes, each which get the same treatment and your looking at a giant pile of damage to everything in front of us that we can use every 2~3 seconds. CAF's recast is actually shorter then it's 1s animation, and attempting to use it during the animation will just waste a charge, so it's best to wait until your regular attack fires to push it again.


Destiny choice is certainly a matter of group composition. I rarely have trouble with a failure to launch and maintain due to my own circumstances.

Fury allows for some interesting execute phase damage that dread can't even come close to matching. Fortunately a couple of buttons is all it takes to swap

Yes each destiny does its own thing. In that PN run I was LD because I knew the people I was with and didn't have to worry about the support from DC. DC also has a ton of offensive power just not as much as LD. Fury I've always seen as a one trick pony, it lets you dump a ton of damage on demand for about a minute, then your pretty much done for awhile. LD has better damage consistency, if we can keep the blitz going and the fire sorcs don't deprive us of mobs to build stacks on.

[palladin9479]

There are some alterations for the gear, don't have the time now but it seems your trying to force in a slavers belt and the Bloodrage Chrism. The Chrism is nice but it's usefulness has gone down, only the +10% Doublestrike is useful. When I get a moment I'll put up some pretty easy options. Slavelords I think is for the +20 DC and +4 Quality to Strength, Legendary Vistani Fighter's Sash gives +Stunning, +Trip, +Deadly and +Vitality in one slot.

[Tobril]

There are some alterations for the gear, don't have the time now but it seems your trying to force in a slavers belt and the Bloodrage Chrism. The Chrism is nice but it's usefulness has gone down, only the +10% Doublestrike is useful. When I get a moment I'll put up some pretty easy options. Slavelords I think is for the +20 DC and +4 Quality to Strength, Legendary Vistani Fighter's Sash gives +Stunning, +Trip, +Deadly and +Vitality in one slot.


I can make Charisma/PDK work great...sadly Strength is driving me insane trying to get ghostly, blurry, shatter, stunning, an artifact, saves, devotion, and close to max Strength+Constitution. 30 PRR/MRR has been absolutely critical for dicey moments in R7-R8, with R10 being basically rocket tag so far if something slips by a tank.

My current gearset isn't anything listed above as I've been tweaking and trying different setups each life. The main idea was to spark a bit of imagination to "work with what you have" vs. demand a specific setup with no alternatives.

[Tobril]

For KoTC Paladin Sanctified Fervor is better then Prowess. Prowess is +50 melee power for 10s of a 20s action boost, or 50% of the time while under any action boost. Fervor is +25 melee power for 60s anytime you use any smite. Confront and Foe is a smite, which is why it activate that ability. Paladin's natural smites recharge every 60s and with Endless Turn Undead TU charges reset every 96, that means you can have Fervor up 100% of the time. Smite evil doesn't have to actually hit anything to activate the ability, you can smite air while running and it'll still give you the +25 Melee Power.

CAF's recast is actually shorter then it's 1s animation, and attempting to use it during the animation will just waste a charge, so it's best to wait until your regular attack fires to push it again.



Confront any Foe seems to have been fixed as a result of the THF rework. (I'm not seeing lost charges anymore when spamming)

I've been working on martial lives so my head is all about Dread right now...dumping Confront any Foe charges during prowess activation brings down R10 doom no problem. (at least until the next one around the corner shows up :P)

Exalted smite is more for Fury than anything, it could easily be replaced with the Melee Power boost and +hit/damage. Most of the time the Smite recharge from Holy Retribution is a reminder to re-up sanctified.

[palladin9479]

The thing with Exalted Smite is that it's 6AP for something that Divine Sacrifice can do with 1AP. It's noob bait because lots of people like to think it's good and end up wasting points. Smites in general are bad in DDO, they don't scale well past level 10 or so. Just use regular smite to activate Fervor while your running around and call it a day, spend the AP in better spots :D.

The Sheltering on the belt isn't giving you any PRR, that Armor your wearing is giving you +54 PRR of the same type that the belt has. Since we mentioned using Strength at the top I was focusing purely on that as it's basically what I build almost all my melee's around. Here is what I'm currently running with, not perfect though.

Weapon: BlackRazor with 8 Filigree slots, Ruby of Cold Iron, Ruby of Adamantine
Eyes: Legendary Collective Sight (+10 Ins Strength +21 Wisdom), Sapphire of Armored Agility +2
Head: Tiara of Madness with Solipsism
Neck: Legendary Family Recruit Sigil
Trinket: Echo of the Icon, Sapphire of Resistance +8
Body: Legendary Enforcers Plate, Golem's Heart
Back: Legendary Mantle of Fury, Globe of True Imperial Blood
Wrist: Brand of Kalok Shash with 3 Filigre slots, Topaz of Power +250, Diamond of Dexterity +8, Topaz of Blindness Immunity
Belt: Legendary Vistani Fighter's Sash, Topaz of Deathblock
Ring1: Legendary Celestial Topaz Ring (Charisma +21), Draconic Soul Gem
Ring2: Legendary Deathwarden, Sapphire of Spell Agility +15
Feet: Legendary Softsole Slippers, Topaz of Feather Falling
Hands: Legendary Hammerfist, Sapphire of Good Luck +2

Set Bonus's active,
Legendary Part of the Family
+15% Artifact Bonus to Double Strike
+25 Artifact Bonus to Melee Power
+10% Artifact bonus to Fortification Bypass
+15% Artifact bonus vs Helpless

Legendary Adherent of the Mists
+20 Profane Bonus to PRR
+20 Profane bonus to Positive Healing Amplification
+10 Profane bonus to Melee Power
+20 Profane bonus to Universal Spell Power

Filigree:
Minor Artifact
Slot1: [Combo] Sucker Punch/One Against Many: Strength (Rare) +2 Strength +4 Melee power
Slot2: One Against Many: Melee Power (Rare) +5 Melee Power (Set Bonus +10 Melee Power)
Slot3: Sucker Punch: Melee Power (Rare) +5 Melee Power (Set Bonus +10 Melee Power)

Those 3 give a combined +24 Melee Power +2 Strength.

Blackrazor
Slot1: Sanctified Fervor: Strength (Rare) +1 Strength +2 PRR
Slot2: Sanctified Fervor: Melee Power +3 Melee Power (been looking for a rare version of this for awhile)
Slot3: Sanctified Fervor: Charisma (Rare) +1 Charisma +2 MRR
Slot4: Sanctified Fervor: Healing Amplification +10 Healing Amplification
Slot5: Sanctified Fervor: Wisdom +1 Wisdom

Those 5 give the following for set bonus
+5 Healing Amplification
+5 Melee Power
+2% Doublestrike
+25 Melee Power for 60s after Smite activation

Slot6: Prowess Melee Power (Rare) +5 Melee Power
Slot7: Prowess Attack and Damage (Rare) +1 Attack/Damage +2 PRR
Slot8: Prowess Strength (Rare) +1 Strength +2 PRR

Set Bonus
+5 PRR
+5 Melee Power

That setup gives pretty much everything you could ask for. The Chism is the only real alternative as it's just trading out the Mists set bonus for 10 more Double Strike, would also free up one ring to do whatever someone wanted with. All of it can be gotten from regular quests, and if someone doesn't have the Brands then hey can use Legendary Bracers of the Fallen Hero to accomplish much of the same thing. Raid items in DDO aren't inherently "better" then quest items, they just provide different stat options.

Also you shouldn't have Prowess + Fervor, it's one or the other because you can really lose power by chasing too many set bonus's. I'm seriously thinking about removing the Prowess and going with 2 Long Shadows for 10 Melee Power then slotting a single +5 Melee Power Filigree, would be trading 1 Strength and 5 PRR for 5 Melee Power.

[palladin9479]

For twists, these really depend on what I'm doing at the time but here is what I'm generally running.

Divine Crusader ED
Slot1(3): Endless Lay on Hands (this one us super important)
Slot2(3): Grim Precision (+15% Fort Bypass)
Slot3(2): Running with the Wind (+6 Double Strike)
Slot4(1): A Dance with Flowers (+1W)
Slot5(1): Legendary Tactics (+6 DC)

Legendary Dreadnought
Slot1(3): Endless Lay on Hands (this one us super important)
Slot2(3): Grim Precision (+15% Fort Bypass)
Slot3(2): Confront any Foe
Slot4(1): A Dance with Flowers (+1W)
Slot5(1): Endless Turning


That puts us at 103% Fortification Bypass, virtually nothing in this game has more then 100% Fortification meaning we can now crit Undead, Slimes, Constructs, Plants and the rest like normal monsters. The third slot is flexible as it is where Momentum Swing used to go, as I'm not slotting Action Boost Haste I don't need Extra Action Boost's either, so its a little bit of Double Strike. I don't use Sense Weakness and frankly it's never been very good. It was used in the mid to high end reaper teams because those guys don't leave the Airship unless one member has Mass Hold Monster, and then they only do content where the monsters can be Held in the first place. That style has largely ceased existing as now those guys just use teams of Inqusitives, Fire Sorcs, Necro Wizards or Necro Clerics instead. Most trash mobs die in a few swings anyway so Sense does nothing for you, the few that would survive are immune to mind control anyway (Charm, Dominate, Paralyze, Confusion, Dance). Helpless isn't nearly as common as some people think, Trip, Knockdown, Daze and Dance effects don't count. So really unless there is a DC Wizard in the group doing Mass Hold Monster on every batch before the rando Inqusitive starts firing and scattering the mobs, Sense Weakness isn't gonna do much for anyone.

[Ballrus]

...I don't use Sense Weakness and frankly it's never been very good...
If you have the tools to make things helpless, it's very good.

[palladin9479]

If you have the tools to make things helpless, it's very good.


. It was used in the mid to high end reaper teams because those guys don't leave the Airship unless one member has Mass Hold Monster, and then they only do content where the monsters can be Held in the first place. That style has largely ceased existing as now those guys just use teams of Inqusitives, Fire Sorcs, Necro Wizards or Necro Clerics instead. Most trash mobs die in a few swings anyway so Sense does nothing for you, the few that would survive are immune to mind control anyway (Charm, Dominate, Paralyze, Confusion, Dance). Helpless isn't nearly as common as some people think, Trip, Knockdown, Daze and Dance effects don't count. So really unless there is a DC Wizard in the group doing Mass Hold Monster on every batch before the rando Inqusitive starts firing and scattering the mobs, Sense Weakness isn't gonna do much for anyone.

The only things it would be useful on are those that are immune to it in the first place. And "helpless" is a lot less common then believe thing, daze, trip, knockdown, dance, those aren't "helpless". The only reliable one is Mass Hold Monster and it's been about four or five months since I've seen someone use that in a reaper group. Of course your really hinting at Dire Charge, which means trash mobs, meaning their already dead in a few swings. So again, as a Twist, Sense Weakness is pretty bad in today's meta.

Fun fact, Overwhelming Force's no save knockdown is considered "Helpless" so it works on stuff that would otherwise by immune, of course it's only on an Adrenaline use, meaning it survived the damage so probably a boss and therefor likely immune to it in the first place. The old broken Ear Smash used to be a prime source since it's technically "sleep" but was bugged, worked on almost everything and the target didn't wake up after taking damage. The devs fixed that recently.

[Tobril]

The thing with Exalted Smite is that it's 6AP for something that Divine Sacrifice can do with 1AP. It's noob bait because lots of people like to think it's good and end up wasting points. Smites in general are bad in DDO, they don't scale well past level 10 or so. Just use regular smite to activate Fervor while your running around and call it a day, spend the AP in better spots :D.

The Sheltering on the belt isn't giving you any PRR, that Armor your wearing is giving you +54 PRR of the same type that the belt has. Since we mentioned using Strength at the top I was focusing purely on that as it's basically what I build almost all my melee's around. Here is what I'm currently running with, not perfect though.

Weapon: BlackRazor with 8 Filigree slots, Ruby of Cold Iron, Ruby of Adamantine
Eyes: Legendary Collective Sight (+10 Ins Strength +21 Wisdom), Sapphire of Armored Agility +2
Head: Tiara of Madness with Solipsism
Neck: Legendary Family Recruit Sigil
Trinket: Echo of the Icon, Sapphire of Resistance +8
Body: Legendary Enforcers Plate, Golem's Heart
Back: Legendary Mantle of Fury, Globe of True Imperial Blood
Wrist: Brand of Kalok Shash with 3 Filigre slots, Topaz of Power +250, Diamond of Dexterity +8, Topaz of Blindness Immunity
Belt: Legendary Vistani Fighter's Sash, Topaz of Deathblock
Ring1: Legendary Celestial Topaz Ring (Charisma +21), Draconic Soul Gem
Ring2: Legendary Deathwarden, Sapphire of Spell Agility +15
Feet: Legendary Softsole Slippers, Topaz of Feather Falling
Hands: Legendary Hammerfist, Sapphire of Good Luck +2

Set Bonus's active,
Legendary Part of the Family
+15% Artifact Bonus to Double Strike
+25 Artifact Bonus to Melee Power
+10% Artifact bonus to Fortification Bypass
+15% Artifact bonus vs Helpless

Legendary Adherent of the Mists
+20 Profane Bonus to PRR
+20 Profane bonus to Positive Healing Amplification
+10 Profane bonus to Melee Power
+20 Profane bonus to Universal Spell Power

Filigree:
Minor Artifact
Slot1: [Combo] Sucker Punch/One Against Many: Strength (Rare) +2 Strength +4 Melee power
Slot2: One Against Many: Melee Power (Rare) +5 Melee Power (Set Bonus +10 Melee Power)
Slot3: Sucker Punch: Melee Power (Rare) +5 Melee Power (Set Bonus +10 Melee Power)

Those 3 give a combined +24 Melee Power +2 Strength.

Blackrazor
Slot1: Sanctified Fervor: Strength (Rare) +1 Strength +2 PRR
Slot2: Sanctified Fervor: Melee Power +3 Melee Power (been looking for a rare version of this for awhile)
Slot3: Sanctified Fervor: Charisma (Rare) +1 Charisma +2 MRR
Slot4: Sanctified Fervor: Healing Amplification +10 Healing Amplification
Slot5: Sanctified Fervor: Wisdom +1 Wisdom

Those 5 give the following for set bonus
+5 Healing Amplification
+5 Melee Power
+2% Doublestrike
+25 Melee Power for 60s after Smite activation

Slot6: Prowess Melee Power (Rare) +5 Melee Power
Slot7: Prowess Attack and Damage (Rare) +1 Attack/Damage +2 PRR
Slot8: Prowess Strength (Rare) +1 Strength +2 PRR

Set Bonus
+5 PRR
+5 Melee Power

That setup gives pretty much everything you could ask for. The Chism is the only real alternative as it's just trading out the Mists set bonus for 10 more Double Strike, would also free up one ring to do whatever someone wanted with. All of it can be gotten from regular quests, and if someone doesn't have the Brands then hey can use Legendary Bracers of the Fallen Hero to accomplish much of the same thing. Raid items in DDO aren't inherently "better" then quest items, they just provide different stat options.

Also you shouldn't have Prowess + Fervor, it's one or the other because you can really lose power by chasing too many set bonus's. I'm seriously thinking about removing the Prowess and going with 2 Long Shadows for 10 Melee Power then slotting a single +5 Melee Power Filigree, would be trading 1 Strength and 5 PRR for 5 Melee Power.


I realized a goof on the middle setup and need to figure out something else.

Adherents is such a good set I struggle to get away from it. Unfortunately it ends up being a little HP light and the individual options are somewhat weak...similar to people using Ender because the set is so good despite what it takes to get there.

Why do you have Wisdom slotted if you're taking Force of Personality? The hat for Shatter alone also seems a bit weak. (I'm struggling to include Shatter as well and it's rather frustrating) Too bad Paladin doesn't have Charisma to-hit/damage somewhere to make gearing easier. (and not just on a silly looking race)

Prowess gains more in Dread for sure. 10 seconds to kill a pack, move on, reboost and repeat. I can see doing more static bonuses instead of Prowess if staying Paladin and Crusader.

I'll put in a few more notes about Exalted Smite being mainly for Fury while trying to pick up more Strikethrough, which is the reason I was able to get away from Boulder's Might. Otherwise I agree that regular Smite is fine for Sanctified and the points are better spent elsewhere.

[Tobril]

For twists, these really depend on what I'm doing at the time but here is what I'm generally running.

Divine Crusader ED
Slot1(3): Endless Lay on Hands (this one us super important)
Slot2(3): Grim Precision (+15% Fort Bypass)
Slot3(2): Running with the Wind (+6 Double Strike)
Slot4(1): A Dance with Flowers (+1W)
Slot5(1): Legendary Tactics (+6 DC)

Legendary Dreadnought
Slot1(3): Endless Lay on Hands (this one us super important)
Slot2(3): Grim Precision (+15% Fort Bypass)
Slot3(2): Confront any Foe
Slot4(1): A Dance with Flowers (+1W)
Slot5(1): Endless Turning


That puts us at 103% Fortification Bypass, virtually nothing in this game has more then 100% Fortification meaning we can now crit Undead, Slimes, Constructs, Plants and the rest like normal monsters. The third slot is flexible as it is where Momentum Swing used to go, as I'm not slotting Action Boost Haste I don't need Extra Action Boost's either, so its a little bit of Double Strike. I don't use Sense Weakness and frankly it's never been very good. It was used in the mid to high end reaper teams because those guys don't leave the Airship unless one member has Mass Hold Monster, and then they only do content where the monsters can be Held in the first place. That style has largely ceased existing as now those guys just use teams of Inqusitives, Fire Sorcs, Necro Wizards or Necro Clerics instead. Most trash mobs die in a few swings anyway so Sense does nothing for you, the few that would survive are immune to mind control anyway (Charm, Dominate, Paralyze, Confusion, Dance). Helpless isn't nearly as common as some people think, Trip, Knockdown, Daze and Dance effects don't count. So really unless there is a DC Wizard in the group doing Mass Hold Monster on every batch before the rando Inqusitive starts firing and scattering the mobs, Sense Weakness isn't gonna do much for anyone.


My Dread layout:

4 Martial Hymn or Sense Weakness depending on the quest
3 Meld
2 Confront any Foe
1 A Dance of Flowers
1 Cocoon (A bit weak and on the chopping block in high reaper)

I used to run Grim Precision and swapped for more survivability, though in R4 and down I'd agree with Grim...raids too.

[Wipey]

That setup gives pretty much everything you could ask for.
No accuracy, no Deception. The idea was the worst gearset for paladin ?

No Smites, No Quicken. No Meld or Sense Weakness. FoP and Quick Draw, what ?

Sorry it's not a good "advice". Funny comments on helplessness and "meta" too.

[Tobril]

No accuracy, no Deception. The idea was the worst gearset for paladin ?

No Smites, No Quicken. No Meld or Sense Weakness. FoP and Quick Draw, what ?

Sorry it's not a good "advice". Funny comments on helplessness and "meta" too.


Let's stay civil please and make notes as the the reaper level in question...some gearing, twists, etc become better on different settings.

[palladin9479]

Why do you have Wisdom slotted if you're taking Force of Personality?

I was playing around with Celestial Bombardment and it's DC is WIS based, that's all.


Adherents is such a good set I struggle to get away from it. Unfortunately it ends up being a little HP light and the individual options are somewhat weak...similar to people using Ender because the set is so good despite what it takes to get there. It can be dropped just a nice all around set if we're already wearing that stuff. And there is no difference in HP, I'm already well over 2K outside of reaper and much higher in. If I go tank mode it's over 3K. The boots back and belt are pretty standard, the rest is just optional.


The hat for Shatter alone also seems a bit weak.

Shatter is super rare and annoying to fit, that tiara was about the best that could be done. Thankfully we can swap it out for Brim if HR isn't needed. I'd like to get Shatter on a ring or craft a decent helm with it.

[palladin9479]

No accuracy, no Deception. The idea was the worst gearset for paladin ?

No Smites, No Quicken. No Meld or Sense Weakness. FoP and Quick Draw, what ?

Sorry it's not a good "advice". Funny comments on helplessness and "meta" too.

Huh, most of that is terrible on a Paladin. Accuracy I have swaps in for crazy tier content, otherwise powercreep has us hitting on 2's and higher up to mid Legendary Reaper. Deception on a melee without Sneak Attack dice wuh?

For Accuracy I use these two.

https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legendary_Celestial_Ruby_Ring

https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legendary_Umber_Brim

If accuracy is such an issue that we need both of those, then we're not hitting HR so ditching the Tiara isn't a loss. It's really just for HR on content that we can get HR to land reliable, which is everything up to mid tier Reaper.

Can also use this,

https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Silver_Dragonscale_Helmet

From the OP


Pick up racial past lives on a high DPS and survivable melee platform.
Perform exceptionally well in some raids: Shroud, Killing Time, Strahd, Too Hot to Handle
Perform adequately in other raids.
Perform adequately in high reaper content.

The first three operate under very different circumstances then the last one and require different gear sets. Hell the first one is different then the middle two. If someone is in the last one, then they should already know what their doing enough to make their own gear choices as the situation demands.

[Wipey]

Let's stay civil please and make notes as the the reaper level in question...some gearing, twists, etc become better on different settings.
Building for epic 8 - 10 skulls quests and r1 raids ( except thth ) is worthy of discussion imo. I shouldn't have reacted, my bad. Please do carry on ))

[palladin9479]

Building for epic 8 - 10 skulls quests and r1 raids ( except thth ) is worthy of discussion imo. I shouldn't have reacted, my bad. Please do carry on ))

Get out of here with that weak sauce, solo R11 or GTFO.

Seriously though, smites are terrible on Paladin, same with Quicken. FoP is because Wisdom is a dump stat on Paladin and Charisma is massive better, QD due to most of Paladin's abilities into epics are treated was weapon swaps for some reason. The rest is super situational, meld isn't what it used to be due to the nerf and sense sucks unless you have casters doing Mass Hold Monster on targets not immune to mind control. If your in a high level reaper group with casters, then your being carried as a Paladin, that's just how reaper scaling works with all melee's vs casters / ranged.

Unless of course your running Assimar with Falconry and Inquisitive and ignoring Paladin entirely, which I suspect is what your doing because everything you mentioned belongs that that category of play.

[count_spicoli]

Pick up racial past lives on a high DPS and survivable melee platform.
Perform exceptionally well in some raids: Shroud, Killing Time, Strahd, Too Hot to Handle
Perform adequately in other raids.
Perform adequately in high reaper content

Responding only to the first so cant comment on on the others since i havent taken a pally to cap with the new overhaul yet.

I have done 4 racial past lives with a pally since they redid the enhancements and they are really good. Running r3 and r4 grouping and soloing is pretty solid. I always use exatled smite. In heroics exalted smite is a bomb that now hits whatever mobs you got strike thru on and can crit on all of them. Remember the base bonus dmg you get for regular smiltes calculates into the crits which are 2 range/2 multi. To compare it to divine sacrifice is incorrect. You get x1 multi for divine sac with no xtra dmg in it and doesnt hit on strike thru. I insta killed 3 orthons at lvl 16 at one with an exalted smite in r3. Thats how good it is.

And why would anyone take fop on a pally when you get divine grace which already adds your cha mod to all your saves including will. Maybe something I'm missing.

As far as levling racial lives to get stunning blow as fast as you can. For soloing r3 and r4 you will def want to use this and trip because remember now it hits with strike thru so regularly stunning and tripping 3 things. Having a mob of crowns stunned in r3 is alot better than them pounding on you.

[LavidDynch]

The initial post, aka the OP is what I would never ever do... and here I thought paladins was more SSG-proofed and stremlined than even barbarians in terms on of how to build it... (aka: str, cha, con .use all feats that looks good for you, don´t pick them in alphabetical order and you will be just fine......

Fury and paladin is a real bad mix to begin with, even if fury is better than LD for two handers....


https://youtu.be/jWLaHF69S5Y the DDO anthem...

[Tobril]

And why would anyone take fop on a pally when you get divine grace which already adds your cha mod to all your saves including will. Maybe something I'm missing.

As far as leveling racial lives to get stunning blow as fast as you can. For soloing r3 and r4 you will def want to use this and trip because remember now it hits with strike thru so regularly stunning and tripping 3 things. Having a mob of crowns stunned in r3 is alot better than them pounding on you.


PDK could justify Force of Personality. That's a bit out of scope here. You could also take it to help with gearing issues and that would be OK.

I've stunning blow'd soft targets in R8 Sharn and have been pleasantly surprised by how helpful the extra stun cooldown is for tackling targets that tend to be out of an AOE all by themselves. Strikethrough works on it too, as you mentioned, giving extra value. It's helpful though not mandatory.

[Tobril]

The initial post, aka the OP is what I would never ever do... and here I thought paladins was more SSG-proofed and stremlined than even barbarians in terms on of how to build it... (aka: str, cha, con .use all feats that looks good for you, don´t pick them in alphabetical order and you will be just fine......

Fury and paladin is a real bad mix to begin with, even if fury is better than LD for two handers....


They are fun though and that's OK :)

I'm working epic lives in combination with racial lives. That's the main reason for mentioning Fury.

[LavidDynch]

They are fun though and that's OK :)

I'm working epic lives in combination with racial lives. That's the main reason for mentioning Fury.

I can´t remember exactly what it was but it was something that didnt function at all or was being turned off while being raged that was annoying the **** out of me when I tried out the paladin. (probably the sacred defender stuff - mmr/prr con-str...)..

[palladin9479]

And why would anyone take fop on a pally when you get divine grace which already adds your cha mod to all your saves including will. Maybe something I'm missing.


Because Wisdom, the normal stat for Will saves, is a dump stat and your replacing it entirely with one of Paladin's key stats. Charisma effectively counts twice then, once for Will and again for Divine Grace. Will save is the source of the most annoyingly lethal status effects you will be targeted with, Hold, Dance and Confusion. If I had a way of replacing Reflex with Charisma instead of Dex I would, thankfully Reflex is usually just damage and we can reduce that with lots of stuff anyway. Fort is Paladin's high save along with being linked to Constitution, a stat all melee's should have high values for anyway.

As for Exalted Smite, it sucks for it's cost and is noob bait. No matter how people spin in, spending 6~9 AP for a charge ability that adds +2/2 is bad. Now if they lowered it's cost to 1AP per upgrade, like we asked them to during Preview 1, then I could see it being taken. Running around in heroics where your crit range is 15~25% means exalted has a 65~75% chance of being a waste. With 3~5 smites naturally that means about one of them is going to be useful, unless we spend another 3AP, bringing the total to 9AP, to give a second useful one. For damage Divine Sacrifice is better, which has a 3s cool down, no charges and adds +1 Crit Multi for 1AP. Just pressing Sacrifice over and over again will get you better damage then Exalted Smite because you can do it forever, heck it even gives us more melee power (10) when hitting evil opponents.

Tobril at least had a decent use for it, Adrenaline forces a crit at a huge damage multiplier. He's using Exalted Smite to buff the crit multi on that attack even higher resulting in a guaranteed giant damage bomb. Since the whole purpose of fury and Adrenaline is to generate spike damage on demand and it also has charges, they work together pretty well. There are issues with going in Fury, but if the purpose of the build is to make a DPS that specializes in spike damage, then it works pretty well.

Normal Great Sword would have a 3.0 Crit Multi after Holy Sword, Long Swords and Battle Axes would have 4.0. All of these are at a 25% threat range (16-20) with Holy Sword.
Exalted by itself would raise that to 35% threat range (14-20) and 5.0 crit multi (for Great Sword), that's a 65% chance of doing nothing and a 35% chance of being really cool. We can see the issue right there, limited charges with a slow recharge rate means we can't afford for it to do nothing. Now Adrenaline adds +80% crit rate (+16 threat), which immediately brings our 65% chance of doing nothing to 0% chance. So 100% chance of doing a 5.0 crit attack that just also does +400% damage (another 5.0 multi). That's an attack that will do more then 25x the damage of a regular attack and can be repeated until the player runs out of Adrenaline/Smite charges. So epic raid boss beater.

[palladin9479]

I can´t remember exactly what it was but it was something that didnt function at all or was being turned off while being raged that was annoying the **** out of me when I tried out the paladin. (probably the sacred defender stuff - mmr/prr con-str...)..

Fury prevents defensive stances from working and that's one of the Paladin's key survival mechanisms. I once did a Paladin Fury Vanguard, was doing 50K per shield bash and it was glorious. Everything else was kinda meh, but during Unbridled Fury it demolished everything.

[Tobril]

I can´t remember exactly what it was but it was something that didnt function at all or was being turned off while being raged that was annoying the **** out of me when I tried out the paladin. (probably the sacred defender stuff - mmr/prr con-str...)..

You do have to drop stance and losing all those tasty treats is a pain. Ditto if a tank can't hold against the built-in 150% threat generation.

Unloading smites/Confront any Foe during the Fury moment with a boost is surprisingly OK burst damage.

I don't prefer Fury for Paladin by any means, it's just some observations that could help someone who wants Primal lives.


It's like getting a new toy but being told you have to clean the backyard instead...and then you find a kind of neat stick and everything is alright once more. https://www.ddo.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.png

[LavidDynch]

You do have to drop stance and losing all those tasty treats is a pain. Ditto if a tank can't hold against the built-in 150% threat generation.

Unloading smites/Confront any Foe during the Fury moment with a boost is surprisingly OK burst damage.

I don't prefer Fury for Paladin by any means, it's just some observations that could help someone who wants Primal lives.


It's like getting a new toy but being told you have to clean the backyard instead...and then you find a kind of neat stick and everything is alright once more. :)

I guess just going barb would be the safest choice for primal lifes right now; super powerfull cannot literally die in r1 with blood tribute and ravager t5 for solo-leveling (FB might be stronger if your grouped thou and the W5-knockdown is a godsend.... If your going 1-30 an aasimar clr/barb build would probably be great I still think you can loh while raged if you feel that you need the extra heal button. or just horc for totally crushing everything with a 1 or 2 lvls of clr for confront any foe...

no matter. the important thing is that you enjoy what you play and if ur not that bothered with losing the paladin defensive stuff while being in primal than more power to you!.

[palladin9479]

@Tobril,

Just got done reworking my sets a bit and found a solid path.

Weapon: BlackRazor with 8 Filigree slots, Ruby of Cold Iron, Ruby of Adamantine
Eyes: Legendary Collective Sight (+10 Ins Constitution +21 Wisdom), Sapphire of Armored Agility +2 (changed to Ins Con)
Head: Silver Dragon Scale Helm (+10 Ins Strength) (changed this out completely, hate that **** tiara)
Neck: Legendary Family Recruit Sigil
Trinket: Bloodrage Chrism, Sapphire of Resistance +8
Body: Legendary Enforcers Plate, Golem's Heart
Back: Legendary Mantle of Fury, Globe of True Imperial Blood
Wrist: Brand of Kalok Shash with 3 Filigre slots, Topaz of Power +250, Diamond of Dexterity +8, Topaz of Blindness Immunity
Belt: Legendary Vistani Fighter's Sash, Topaz of Deathblock
Ring1: Legendary Celestial Topaz Ring (Charisma +21), Draconic Soul Gem
Ring2: Legendary Slavers (Shelter/Whatever/Shatter/Quality Strength) (Put slavers here)
Feet: Legendary Softsole Slippers, Topaz of Feather Falling
Hands: Legendary Hammerfist, Sapphire of Good Luck +2

This let me fit in even more stats, just gotta get more Forge runes now. Got flexibility on the second augment on that ring since the helm gives "accuracy".

Note, just got done a bunch of R8 last few days and without any "accuracy" items i'm sitting at +163 attack bonus and had no issues in smashing stuff left and right. People can pour more accuracy on but I really think it'll be overkill in most places.

[Tobril]

@Tobril,

Just got done reworking my sets a bit and found a solid path.

Weapon: BlackRazor with 8 Filigree slots, Ruby of Cold Iron, Ruby of Adamantine
Eyes: Legendary Collective Sight (+10 Ins Constitution +21 Wisdom), Sapphire of Armored Agility +2 (changed to Ins Con)
Head: Silver Dragon Scale Helm (+10 Ins Strength) (changed this out completely, hate that **** tiara)
Neck: Legendary Family Recruit Sigil
Trinket: Bloodrage Chrism, Sapphire of Resistance +8
Body: Legendary Enforcers Plate, Golem's Heart
Back: Legendary Mantle of Fury, Globe of True Imperial Blood
Wrist: Brand of Kalok Shash with 3 Filigre slots, Topaz of Power +250, Diamond of Dexterity +8, Topaz of Blindness Immunity
Belt: Legendary Vistani Fighter's Sash, Topaz of Deathblock
Ring1: Legendary Celestial Topaz Ring (Charisma +21), Draconic Soul Gem
Ring2: Legendary Slavers (Shelter/Whatever/Shatter/Quality Strength) (Put slavers here)
Feet: Legendary Softsole Slippers, Topaz of Feather Falling
Hands: Legendary Hammerfist, Sapphire of Good Luck +2

This let me fit in even more stats, just gotta get more Forge runes now. Got flexibility on the second augment on that ring since the helm gives "accuracy".

Note, just got done a bunch of R8 last few days and without any "accuracy" items i'm sitting at +163 attack bonus and had no issues in smashing stuff left and right. People can pour more accuracy on but I really think it'll be overkill in most places.


That's a good setup too. It does need FOM via potion/spell, otherwise you lose quite a bit in the possible swap slots.

I ended up with basically the same slavelords item and put Devotion in the "whatever" slot since the +8 resist augment gets the softer saves in the high 90's.

If you can manage, a deconstructor give a little more kick than just the adamantine weapon augment. I'm running that plus the vampire slayer for silver and a pinch more damage. I carry the strahd greatsword for any other strange DRs and a LGS Salt weapon for the occasional CC in strange party comps and to bypass evil DR.

[palladin9479]

Oh for FoM, we can use Flightfloot but then we'll lose out on +9 Charisma from Softsole, no vender sells scrolls so eternal flask, honestly if it gets down to it I'll sacrifice some charisma.

[StromReich]

Really like this build! I had an idea for a somewhat similar build and wanted to know if you have tried anything like it, or maybe tips on how to make it work.

I’ve noticed a huge difference in both single and two handed fighting. Obviously THF deals much more damage and TWF hits faster. I was trying to work out how to create and capitalize off both aspects of THF/TWF, improved, greater, and perfect THF & TWF, for the most benefits out of both. Wanted to specialize in bastard swords, as they are considered a two handed weapon and would stand to gain benefits from both.

Initially I choose 14Pally, 4fghtr, 2monk BF for enhancement bonus to strike through from both BF and KoTC tree. T5 KoTC has some very hard hitting moves and a self replenishing exalted smite that deals a lot of damage. The last combat feat I choose was Whirlwind. With those 5 attacks, or 6 if you count spring attack, it’s very possible to hop into the middle of a large mob, keep hitting with one spin attack followed by another and timer will have reset when you need to use it again.

A large drawback is 14 pally will only get one top lvl spell, holy sword being the better of the two in my opinion. I just couldn’t find a way to get the feats needed for Whirlwind, Bastard Sword, Critical: Slash, and full chains of TWF/THF.

Even without whirlwind, this should be a fairly effective combo. Have you tried using bastard swords or insight you might have into it would help?

[palladin9479]

Whirlwind is terrible, especially if your using THF, it's a giant noob trap. Warforged is also the absolute worth race to go Paladin on. Paladin will naturally get energy immunity along with ridiculously high saves and the ability to use Greater Restoration on themselves should anything get through the defenses. All Paladin's healing is positive, it's tree's include tons of Positive Healing Amplification, all of which being Warforged mess's with. Paladin gets two Cleaves in it's enhancement tree's and is feat starved, Whirlwind requires we waste four feats to get, to do something Paladin already does. I've already gone over how bad exalted smite is, though at least Torbil has a good use for it in Raid boss killing.

I really hate that devs left so many noob traps in the game with descriptions that "sound" awesome, but work out to be terrible in practice.

If you really want to go Warforged, then Artificer or Wizard works out really well. Both of those get natural repair spells and Reconstruct is ridiculous for self healing WF's.

Generally you want to run at least 18 levels of Paladin for the 18 core goodies, post update they are very nice. If someone is dead set on a big split, then dump Paladin all together and go with War domain cleric, get most of the same stuff only with a bit more flexibility and more levels to play with. 14 Cleric / 5 Barb / 1 Fighter is really nice.


Level 2: You gain +1 to hit and damage with melee and ranged weapons. This increases at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th and 20th.
Upon Turning: When you use Turn Undead your party gains a Divine bonus to Melee Power and Ranged Power equal to half your Cleric level for 20 seconds.
Level 5: You gain proficiency in all martial and exotic weapons.
Level 9: Your tactical DCs are increased by half your Cleric level.
Level 14: You gain Holy Sword as an SLA. 10 SP, 6 second cooldown

Go for the Frenzied Berserker T5 with for bigger crits, Holy Sword, Warcaster, Divine Might, Ameliorating Strike and Holy Striker on Cleric and Action Boost Haste from fighter. Plus Cleric would give native access to Cure spells and Heal.

Got two options for favored weapons, first is Divine Crusader Book of War for Great Swords, second is 11 points in Wood Elf for Falchions if you really want. These only matter if your running in Divine Crusader as there are some benefits for using Favored Weapons there, KoTC is the only tree that really requires them, otherwise Favored Weapons aren't a big deal. Then you can go big and use Mauls from Silvanus, but that's an Iconic.

[Tobril]

Really like this build! I had an idea for a somewhat similar build and wanted to know if you have tried anything like it, or maybe tips on how to make it work.

I’ve noticed a huge difference in both single and two handed fighting. Obviously THF deals much more damage and TWF hits faster. I was trying to work out how to create and capitalize off both aspects of THF/TWF, improved, greater, and perfect THF & TWF, for the most benefits out of both. Wanted to specialize in bastard swords, as they are considered a two handed weapon and would stand to gain benefits from both.

Initially I choose 14Pally, 4fghtr, 2monk BF for enhancement bonus to strike through from both BF and KoTC tree. T5 KoTC has some very hard hitting moves and a self replenishing exalted smite that deals a lot of damage. The last combat feat I choose was Whirlwind. With those 5 attacks, or 6 if you count spring attack, it’s very possible to hop into the middle of a large mob, keep hitting with one spin attack followed by another and timer will have reset when you need to use it again.

A large drawback is 14 pally will only get one top lvl spell, holy sword being the better of the two in my opinion. I just couldn’t find a way to get the feats needed for Whirlwind, Bastard Sword, Critical: Slash, and full chains of TWF/THF.

Even without whirlwind, this should be a fairly effective combo. Have you tried using bastard swords or insight you might have into it would help?


TWF and THF can't be mixed, unless there's something funny happening now. One style is all you get.

KoTC gives two free cleaves and there's much better feat choices that make whirlwind a hard sell.

With the new strikethrough mechanic you'll have plenty of AOE damage.

You can get most of the THF benefits with the bastard/dwarf weapon. The only thing you lose is significant DPS and the Chrism doesn't work with bastard/dwarf. Hand-and-a-half weapons are waaaaaaay less DPS overall and the shield benefits are rather low compared to the DPS loss for a non-tank melee.

Bladeforged is a sweet race for paladin. You get repair spells, double-tap lay hands, and some really nice racial abilities. You'll want the weapon attachment and Power of the Forge boost.

I'd recommend paladin DPS be pure or close to pure, otherwise a cleric/fighter combination will give you something solid.

[LavidDynch]

Oh for FoM, we can use Flightfloot but then we'll lose out on +9 Charisma from Softsole, no vender sells scrolls so eternal flask, honestly if it gets down to it I'll sacrifice some charisma.

just stay on softsole, gives ghostly too. I have, well... I, well guess right now I would say due to TR, I had FoM as a spell and used flask 90% of the few cases due to being a raging cleric build... u actually do need to use it that often. As a Paladin u will make most saves like hold person anyway... FoM is very minor thing in DDO these days and there is a flask for the few Q´s you need it in...you can also swap in boots for those rare occassions...

edit : I think the best overall melee build right now is a PDK pure pally(requires +1 heart thou) or a bear. THF dps is quite insane these days but the same problems such as lag and poor d-fens compared to ranged still exists... oh well at least its more fun.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

Building for epic 8 - 10 skulls quests and r1 raids ( except thth ) is worthy of discussion imo.

That's why casual gaming is so much ignored. People find it to be beneath themselves to discuss building for casual gaming, because they believe "if people were building for Reaper, they'd had everything they'd need for casual gaming as well, so everyone should follow what's posted in Reaper discussions, nothing else."

It's kind of elitism to think that everyone should do what those people at the top do : And that is build everything for Reaper. Even if people do not want to play Reaper.
Reaper has become the mark to aim at, and if one doesn't, one becomes ignored.

I bet if I was posting a build with the headline of "for casual gaming", no-one would answer. Or at least no-one of the reaper builders.

So, we're stuck in a world within the top people define how a game is to be played, and that is not only elitism, it is also some kind of Oligarchy.

[LavidDynch]

That's why casual gaming is so much ignored. People find it to be beneath themselves to discuss building for casual gaming, because they believe "if people were building for Reaper, they'd had everything they'd need for casual gaming as well, so everyone should follow what's posted in Reaper discussions, nothing else."

It's kind of elitism to think that everyone should do what those people at the top do : And that is build everything for Reaper. Even if people do not want to play Reaper.
Reaper has become the mark to aim at, and if one doesn't, one becomes ignored.

I bet if I was posting a build with the headline of "for casual gaming", no-one would answer. Or at least no-one of the reaper builders.

So, we're stuck in a world within the top people define how a game is to be played, and that is not only elitism, it is also some kind of Oligarchy.

look at it this way, when I was a kid, about 10 and played sportsball (sock-her or football) we used the 4-4-2 system or the 4-3-3. (defender/midfielder/attacker).. we were just playing for fun and had zero ambitions to become anything in the game other than just having fun. we lost ALOT! In fact we never won a game; one time we even scored a goal! I almost became a hero for hitting the post once!... but we still used the same tactics and system as the best clubs in the world used instead of the real old skoool way of playing sportsball in the 1800´s; the good old and more FUN system of 1-1-9. Nine attackers now that sure sounds like a lot of more fun doesn´t it? and still we didn´t use that tactic cause the results would probably be even more horrendous...

with that said... there are builds that are greater in r1 than in r10 and viceversa, and r10 build might perform poorly in r1 (relatively)

also.. what on earth is a casual gamer? there is a casual mode in the game if that is what you mean? I don´t think there are 2 gamers that are alike so in other words there is no such thing as a casual gamer, its a pointless word. Do you mean ppl who play less? If so why on earth would I bother if the current system is designed top-down? I have played other mmo´s with zero ambitions just to test them out, grinding out this and that testing dungeons and dying alot... I was hardly whining on the forums for the design. (I guess that is one definition of the term casual-gamer? -- I have no idea)

[Kaboom2112]

That's why casual gaming is so much ignored. .


Anything works in casual. We've literally have had toddlers play our toons in casual. There's not thought or skill required.

[palladin9479]

That's why casual gaming is so much ignored. People find it to be beneath themselves to discuss building for casual gaming, because they believe "if people were building for Reaper, they'd had everything they'd need for casual gaming as well, so everyone should follow what's posted in Reaper discussions, nothing else."

It's kind of elitism to think that everyone should do what those people at the top do : And that is build everything for Reaper. Even if people do not want to play Reaper.
Reaper has become the mark to aim at, and if one doesn't, one becomes ignored.

I bet if I was posting a build with the headline of "for casual gaming", no-one would answer. Or at least no-one of the reaper builders.

So, we're stuck in a world within the top people define how a game is to be played, and that is not only elitism, it is also some kind of Oligarchy.

Nothing that guy said was related to building anything, it was about showing how awesome he was and how everyone should respect how much better then us he is.

The game isn't divided between R8 crew and the hordes of scrubs, it has at least a half dozen or more different places a player can be at. Things that work really well at R1 don't work at R8 even though both give the exact same XP. Leveling at elite in heroics isn't difficult at all and can be done fast without resulting to uber elite gimmick builds. Epics can be run on hard for similar builds, elite and reaper require with a team or a pretty good amount of PL's.

[palladin9479]

also.. what on earth is a casual gamer? there is a casual mode in the game if that is what you mean?

A casual gamer / player is one that plays for the exploration and experiencing of the event and not for some lofty goal or sense of self worth. Casual's aren't sinking twenty to forty hours per week into a video game chasing a hamster wheel to keep up with the players who sunk even more time into said video game. There was a post over in general about how DDO should have a warning to new players that they will never catch up to the top players due to the design of the hamster wheel itself. Casual players don't care about that wheel or who's at the top.

I can use myself as an example, I'm a "casual player" because I really don't care what the top end folks are doing nor do I really care what's super meta at any point in time. I play to murder pixels because it's a stress relief mechanism and exploring the various ways to murder pixels is fun and entertaining. Through all my exploring and hacking away I've found certain things work better for having fun while hacking away, and I like to share those things with others who might be doing the same thing with the hopes they'll share their findings which may prove useful.

[LavidDynch]

Casual's aren't sinking twenty to forty hours per week into a video game chasing a hamster wheel to keep up with the players who sunk even more time into said video game. There was a post over in general about how DDO should have a warning to new players that they will never catch up to the top players due to the design of the hamster wheel itself. Casual players don't care about that wheel or who's at the top.


Actually there is also this term "hardcore casual". they spend hours and hours grinding their games but never experience the produce... But if casual players dont care about the wheel why are they complaining?

Toddlers can play DDO, Im sure they dont have a deeper agenda then entertainment. I believe every player has an agenda when they play their games and all thou I love to box people into groups of "stuff" I find casual the most non-saying term. a true casual would never complain about a game -- textbook casuals.

[Tobril]

The good news is this build scales well for a new/casual player to high reaper.

Let's stay on topic and leave non-paladin discussions to the general section please.

[palladin9479]

Actually there is also this term "hardcore casual". they spend hours and hours grinding their games but never experience the produce... But if casual players dont care about the wheel why are they complaining?

Toddlers can play DDO, Im sure they dont have a deeper agenda then entertainment. I believe every player has an agenda when they play their games and all thou I love to box people into groups of "stuff" I find casual the most non-saying term. a true casual would never complain about a game -- textbook casuals.

When we talk casual we're not talking the difficulty setting but the players, myself included, who would rather have fun then be hyper efficient. This isn't a binary thing, it's not flower sniffer vs hard core DDO-as-a-my-job-reaper-11-onry but a range of players. It hurts the community at large when the DDO-as-my-job folks look down and scoff at the rest, especially as things that work at R8+ aren't very useful at Hard through R1/R2 ish.

On topic since we were discussion paladin builds at various tiers, all equally viable for their purpose.

[LavidDynch]

When we talk casual we're not talking the difficulty setting but the players, myself included, who would rather have fun then be hyper efficient. This isn't a binary thing, it's not flower sniffer vs hard core DDO-as-a-my-job-reaper-11-onry but a range of players. It hurts the community at large when the DDO-as-my-job folks look down and scoff at the rest, especially as things that work at R8+ aren't very useful at Hard through R1/R2 ish.

On topic since we were discussion paladin builds at various tiers, all equally viable for their purpose.

Trust me nothing would make me more happy if SSG eased the gap between players/characters... ppl warned about this before the EU-migration btw(2012?)!.... on the other side its one of the few things that makes DDO unique ... I´d gladly give up pastlifes and rxp etc etc for a better game and more even game play.... guess the hamsterwheel would die out then..

edit: sorry if we are not talking about paladins in this thread anymore, but they are so super easy to build that there is noithing to discuss... Idid notice that TU was worse after the buff thou, if that helps?

[korgzz_bloodaxe]

For KoTC Paladin Sanctified Fervor is better then Prowess. Prowess is +50 melee power for 10s of a 20s action boost, or 50% of the time while under any action boost. Fervor is +25 melee power for 60s anytime you use any smite. Confront and Foe is a smite, which is why it activate that ability. Paladin's natural smites recharge every 60s and with Endless Turn Undead TU charges reset every 96, that means you can have Fervor up 100% of the time. Smite evil doesn't have to actually hit anything to activate the ability, you can smite air while running and it'll still give you the +25 Melee Power.


True, the only caveat I would add that most battles are over in 10s and you are running to the next fight in the down time :) Fervor also only gives 30MP total for 5 pieces when a raid sucker/many gives 24MP for 3 pieces and another 2 passive MP for 34MP with 5 pieces (with no activations required). Personally I prefer 5 piece prowess and 3 raid sucker/many and then 3 5MP passives for optimal burst MP. On boss they come out to exactly the same, but in most other scenarios you come out 25MP higher. The only time Fervor wins is when boosts run out, while you can Fervor for eternity.

To be honest though, the difference is pretty minimal and I think it comes down to personal preference. Sanctified does give some good heal amp as well which is nice.

[palladin9479]

True, the only caveat I would add that most battles are over in 10s and you are running to the next fight in the down time :) Fervor also only gives 30MP total for 5 pieces when a raid sucker/many gives 24MP for 3 pieces and another 2 passive MP for 34MP with 5 pieces (with no activations required). Personally I prefer 5 piece prowess and 3 raid sucker/many and then 3 5MP passives for optimal burst MP. On boss they come out to exactly the same, but in most other scenarios you come out 25MP higher. The only time Fervor wins is when boosts run out, while you can Fervor for eternity.

To be honest though, the difference is pretty minimal and I think it comes down to personal preference. Sanctified does give some good heal amp as well which is nice.

Minor Artifacts give you 3, Weapons give you 8 for a total of 11.

In my artifact I have the Combo OaM/SP rare with both Sucker Punch and OaM Melee Power Rare for +24. In my Weapon I have all 5 Fervor for +10 melee power and another +25 (35 total) up permanently, in the final three slots I have Prowess Melee Power (Rare), Prowess Strength (Rare) and Prowess Attack and Damage (Rare) for another +10 Melee Power. Total is +69 Melee power that's up permanently along with a big stack of other bonus's.

[korgzz_bloodaxe]

In my artifact I have the Combo OaM/SP rare with both Sucker Punch and OaM Melee Power Rare for +24. In my Weapon I have all 5 Fervor for +10 melee power and another +25 (35 total) up permanently, in the final three slots I have Prowess Melee Power (Rare), Prowess Strength (Rare) and Prowess Attack and Damage (Rare) for another +10 Melee Power. Total is +69 Melee power that's up permanently along with a big stack of other bonus's.

OaM/SP = 24 + 3*5 = 39MP + 10 from Prowess = 49 passive + 50MP /50% = 74MP average. On most fights i,e, less than 10 seconds that is 99MP. Less of other bonuses though.

[palladin9479]

OaM/SP = 24 + 3*5 = 39MP + 10 from Prowess = 49 passive + 50MP /50% = 74MP average. On most fights i,e, less than 10 seconds that is 99MP. Less of other bonuses though.

That math isn't adding up, or you messing with order of operations.

3 on artifact is 24 Melee Power, period end of story.

Then you have eight on your weapon but I think you don't have an artifact leveled up since your only talking eight total.

Prowess is +10 for all five pieces, one is +5 Melee power and third rank bonus is another +5.

Prowess activation bonus is +50 for 10s with a 20s minimum cooldown, 30s if anything other then LD, so +25/16.6 average.

KoTC is not an action boost spammer, you only have six naturally (9 in LD). Without trying I have over 22 on fighter.

With fervor,

3 on artifact is 24 Melee Power, period end of story.

Sanctified is +10 for all five pieces, one is +5 Melee power and the third rank bonus is another +5.
Fervor Bonus is +25 for 60s with a 0s minimum cool down, functionally infinite for +25 average.

Both give you the exact same average, Fervor is forever and doesn't rely on action boost charges which are easily depletable.

Honestly I've just stopped caring about AB on KoTC, so many different abilities to active that the action boost isn't much. +30 Melee Power is nice at a low level, it's a +9.7% increase at my lowest possible melee power and ~7% towards the higher end, so I pop it when I'm going to dump CAF charges into a boss's face and that's about it.

At the end of the date Prowess has been massively reduced in power from back when it was +100 melee power, then 75 then now to 50. It's no longer the "absolute must have" it was before and that has opened up room for other sets. The Epic Destiny update last year also made many destinies practical, Legendary Dreadnaught is no longer the "must be this or GTFO" it once was.

[korgzz_bloodaxe]

That math isn't adding up, or you messing with order of operations.

No my math is correct. I certainly have 11 slots - I have literally 4 weapons all at maximum 8 slots and multiple minor artifacts all at max slots...
5 piece prowess= 10MP passive
3 piece OaM/SP = 24MP passive

34 passive MP from weapon.

Then 3*5 passive from minor artifact.

= 49 passive MP

50MP /50% = 74MP average, with peak for 99 MP.

Again, most fights it will be running. Very rare to be constantly hitting things except for boss/raids in which case you use the average of 74 MP. This is EXACTLY the same as Fervor! The only reason I am commenting on this is because you said Fervor is BETTER than Prowess. My point is Prowess is situationally better or in most cases the same for most people. Now, if you honestly only have 6 boosts then **** yes, run in Fervor! I have never run out of boosts as far as I can remember in general play. The only time I have was when I was basically soloing a legendary raid.

I have never had 6 boosts in all of my lives. At a minimum you should have 14. If you don't then you are forgoing far too much DPS. Prowess gives an extra 2 uses per boost that you have. It is easy to pick up more through twisting destiny, human/half orc etc or boosts through items. For example - Attack boost from tier 2 of Kotc + haste boost from LD = 14, and then extra action boost takes it to 20 boosts.



Honestly I've just stopped caring about AB on KoTC, so many different abilities to active that the action boost isn't much. +30 Melee Power is nice at a low level, it's a +9.7% increase at my lowest possible melee power and ~7% towards the higher end, so I pop it when I'm going to dump CAF charges into a boss's face and that's about it.

You should be using a haste boost as well, it is a full DPS increase of 30%. I normally use Haste until they run out then switch to melee power boosts.

[palladin9479]

See now your listing everything out which makes it easier to discuss. Also don't conflate total set with Prowess vs Fervor, there is a reason I listed each separately.

Prowess x5 = +10 melee power passive +50 for 10s out of every 20 or 30s thus the +25 average in LD +16 in anything else.

Fervor x5 = +10 melee power passive +25 with permanent effect.

Mathematically, best case scenario is they are identical, everything not best case has Fervor winning. That is why I side with Fervor, sustained damage is usually better then spike unless the spike damage is ridiculous. Exalted Smite is a perfect example of this, giant waste of points in most situations, quite useful if running Fury of the Wild and linking with Adrenaline.

When I was running Ranger or Fighter in epics I definitely used Prowess x5, on KoTC Paladin after several trips up and down I found neither Prowess nor AB Haste wasn't doing much for me in most fights. Boss fights they would be useful but those I just blow whatever remaining CAF charges I have left. You only have 9 charges of AB Haste without having to screw with gear, the bonus's from Prowess are lost the moment you switch to wand to put up Shield and other UMD related spells. You are doing those right...

We've listed several gear sets that are quite good, notice how they aren't packing the Precision lenses or anything else that gives +AB charges. This is for racials / ETR's so you may or may not be on a race that has bonus action boosts or may not even have the points to put there. Overall it seems your putting in a lot of work to make something be the same as something we get for free.

[korgzz_bloodaxe]

We've listed several gear sets that are quite good, notice how they aren't packing the Precision lenses or anything else that gives +AB charges. This is for racials / ETR's so you may or may not be on a race that has bonus action boosts or may not even have the points to put there. Overall it seems your putting in a lot of work to make something be the same as something we get for free.

I'll agree as it makes sense for racials/ ETR which is the objective of this post. I guess I was thinking something that works better at endgame as well i.e. Silvanus Maul running in LD for max damage. To be honest though, you should really look into haste boosts, I can't see how you think a 30% increase is DPS is nothing - you should be using every single fight. This build is okay but it is just giving up so much damage by not going the burst route - if played right you are pretty much bursting 100% of the time - downtime is for running between fights. Mobs in high reaper literally die in 1-2 seconds or less.

[palladin9479]

I'll agree as it makes sense for racials/ ETR which is the objective of this post. I guess I was thinking something that works better at endgame as well i.e. Silvanus Maul running in LD for max damage. To be honest though, you should really look into haste boosts, I can't see how you think a 30% increase is DPS is nothing - you should be using every single fight. This build is okay but it is just giving up so much damage by not going the burst route - if played right you are pretty much bursting 100% of the time - downtime is for running between fights. Mobs in high reaper literally die in 1-2 seconds or less.

Maul is only a favored weapon if you started an Iconic in Eveningstar.

Haste Boost's only boost your DPS when your holding the mouse button down, KoTC has a huge selection of damage abilities that don't get a huge increase from AB Haste, namely Confront and Foe, Holy Retribution and either Strike Down or Momentum Swing ED depending. Further KoTC Paladin gets nothing natively to support AB spam meaning your reaching for options. I do high reaper and murder packs of mobs in seconds, without AB haste, again because KoTC gets a large selection of buttons that do damage and don't get large benefits from attack speed.

Now if you wanna run AB charges then go for it but I'd suggest a 18/2 or 19/1 split with Fighter and put points in AB Haste and Extra AB's from it, even extra tactics to stack with HR and KoTC.

Also you mentioned the +1 threat range in LD for Mauls (applies to Warhammers to), Divine Crusader also gets +1 critical threat range but it's to all weapons along with a bunch of other cool stuff that synergies really well with KoTC Paladin and War Domain cleric. When they did the ED pass they made it really nice as a hybrid DPS support.

[LavidDynch]

Maul is only a favored weapon if you started an Iconic in Eveningstar.

Haste Boost's only boost your DPS when your holding the mouse button down, KoTC has a huge selection of damage abilities that don't get a huge increase from AB Haste, namely Confront and Foe, Holy Retribution and either Strike Down or Momentum Swing ED depending. Further KoTC Paladin gets nothing natively to support AB spam meaning your reaching for options. I do high reaper and murder packs of mobs in seconds, without AB haste, again because KoTC gets a large selection of buttons that do damage and don't get large benefits from attack speed.


Totally agree, AB haste on a class that can more or less chain Confront any Foe (if you time it -- not hard) seems like a waste or 2nd prio if your using prowess as a backup. I find the MP-buff much stronger on these kinds of builds.

[Areago]

What would you suggest to take as extra feats? from human race

[DrawingGuy]

Force of Personality is a good feat option. Lets you completely dump WIS. There is, of course, no shortage of options (Epic DR, weapon focuses, having both imp crit bludgeon/slash to flip between weapon options if Silvanus, etc.). The feat choices made here are pretty flexible too outside of the core melee feats.

So I plan on doing a Paladin PDK life to knock out my Ancient Blessing past lives. Figured I'd share the equipment setup I plan on for end game:

Goggles: Collective Sight (https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legendary_Collective_Sight) (STR, Insightful STR)
Head: Executioner Helm (https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legendary_Executioner%27s_Helm)
Neck: Family Blessing (https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:The_Family%E2%80%99s_Blessing)
Trinket: Bloodrage Chrism (https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Bloodrage_Chrism)
Cloak: Cloak of the City's Champion (https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legendary_Cloak_of_the_City%27s_Champion)
Belt: Slave Lords Chains (Sheltering 45, Armor Piercing 23, Intimidate 22, Quality CHA 4)
Gloves: Hammerfist (https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legendary_Hammerfist)
Boots: Softsole Slippers (https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legendary_Softsole_Slippers)
Bracers: Sunken Chains (https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legendary_Sunken_Chains) (Quality STR 5)
(Defensive Swap) Bracers: Hallowed Castigator (https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legendary_Hallowed_Castigators)
Ring 1: Celestial Sapphire (https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legendary_Celestial_Sapphire_Ring) (CON 21)
Ring 2: Stolen Signet of Ir'Wynarn (https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Stolen_Signet_of_ir%27Wynarn)
Armour: Enforcer Plate (https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legendary_Enforcer%27s_Plate)

The only real problem I see with this setup is not fitting in Accuracy and Deception items. Having swaps of SL belts would be a good idea. Accuracy for high AC/low fort quests, and Deception for low AC/low fort quests (typically only older stuff)

[adrian69]

TWF and THF can't be mixed, unless there's something funny happening now. One style is all you get.

.

You can have both feat lines, space considering. You only benefit from the style of weapon you hold in your hand. TWF will not cause your THF swings to land a second imaginary hand on the way and THF isn't going to cause your TWF swings to hit a second target.

SWF does lock out TWF/THF.

[palladin9479]

Retooled a bit.

Weapon: BlackRazor with 8 Filigree slots, Ruby of Cold Iron, Deconstructor
Eyes: Legendary Collective Sight (+10 Ins Constitution +21 Wisdom), Sapphire of Armored Agility +2 (changed to Ins Con)
Head: Legendary Umber Brim, Sapphire of Resistance +8
Neck: Legendary Family Recruit Sigil
Trinket: Bloodrage Chrism
Body: Legendary Enforcers Plate, Golem's Heart
Back: Legendary Mantle of Fury, Globe of True Imperial Blood
Wrist: Brand of Kalok Shash with 3 Filigre slots, Topaz of Power +250, Diamond of Dexterity +8, Topaz of Blindness Immunity
Belt: Legendary Vistani Fighter's Sash, Topaz of Deathblock
Ring1: Legendary Celestial Topaz Ring (Charisma +21), Draconic Soul Gem
Ring2: Legendary Slavers (Shelter/Devotion/Shatter/Quality Strength)
Feet: Legendary Softsole Slippers, Topaz of Feather Falling
Hands: Legendary Hammerfist, Sapphire of Good Luck +2

This turned out to work extremely well and I'm still over 2K HP in town and considerably higher in Reaper. have something like 160~190 attack bonus and have no problems hitting stuff in R8-R10 so no accuracy item is needed. This setup trash's groups of mobs, rush in and Charge / HR / Strike Down / Confront or just regular cleaves / swings, even regular Trip is really useful.

[Tobril]

Retooled a bit.

Weapon: BlackRazor with 8 Filigree slots, Ruby of Cold Iron, Deconstructor
Eyes: Legendary Collective Sight (+10 Ins Constitution +21 Wisdom), Sapphire of Armored Agility +2 (changed to Ins Con)
Head: Legendary Umber Brim, Sapphire of Resistance +8
Neck: Legendary Family Recruit Sigil
Trinket: Bloodrage Chrism
Body: Legendary Enforcers Plate, Golem's Heart
Back: Legendary Mantle of Fury, Globe of True Imperial Blood
Wrist: Brand of Kalok Shash with 3 Filigre slots, Topaz of Power +250, Diamond of Dexterity +8, Topaz of Blindness Immunity
Belt: Legendary Vistani Fighter's Sash, Topaz of Deathblock
Ring1: Legendary Celestial Topaz Ring (Charisma +21), Draconic Soul Gem
Ring2: Legendary Slavers (Shelter/Devotion/Shatter/Quality Strength)
Feet: Legendary Softsole Slippers, Topaz of Feather Falling
Hands: Legendary Hammerfist, Sapphire of Good Luck +2

This turned out to work extremely well and I'm still over 2K HP in town and considerably higher in Reaper. have something like 160~190 attack bonus and have no problems hitting stuff in R8-R10 so no accuracy item is needed. This setup trash's groups of mobs, rush in and Charge / HR / Strike Down / Confront or just regular cleaves / swings, even regular Trip is really useful.


That's a nice list.

I redid mine a bit ago to take advantage of getting the raid necklace and otherwise working with what I had available.

STR paladin doesn't seem to have a super well defined "must do it this way" list and that's kinda fun :)

[Tobril]

Two things of note...

1) Lag has eased up enough to sometimes allow for a swap to prowess for boosting and then back to your regular setup. If you're running dread go the other way and swap every 50 seconds (or when handy) to keep sanctified up.

2) Righteous Charge (1 point) has been unexpectedly good for dealing with various movement impediments and acting as a sort of wings when there's a monster anchor.

[Odium]

What are the low level items you want to target to make the leveling process as easy as possible?

[SpartanKiller13]

Found this thread while surfing for Cha-based THF builds; wondered if anyone has a new gearset and if so are y'all using Brightlord?

Thanks in advance :)

[Tobril]

Found this thread while surfing for Cha-based THF builds; wondered if anyone has a new gearset and if so are y'all using Brightlord?

Thanks in advance :)


I haven't made any changes to accommodate the U46 items.

Brightlord is only 22 CHA. Smites are only useful for keeping Sanctified Fervor running and already regenerate via Holy Retribution.

The current artifact gives quality Accuracy+Deadly and large fire mitigation during a time when the current end game raid is literally on fire.


The Corroded Iron trinket is quite good and can be a nice stand-in until you get the Chrism. Several of the other trinkets have nice stats too and are quite easy to pull relative to a raid item or if you don't have a surplus of tokens.

[Tobril]

What are the low level items you want to target to make the leveling process as easy as possible?


I run a heroic version of the "entry level" setup when the pieces are available. Before Ravenloft use whatever you have laying around.

Use whatever nice THF weapon you have. It doesn't have to be a favored weapon right away. (Exception: PDK/CHA based)

Barovian/Syranian are quite nice.


I make swaps at:

20
Weapon: ESOS or best you have.
Bracer: Mysterious Bracers (14th Level version)
Epic Quiver of Alacrity

21
Trinket: Serrated Arrowhead (was cannith crafted Melee Alacrity/Sheltering)
Boots: Blackfeather Boots

23
Helm: Epic Memories of Immortality

26
Helm: Sightless
Boots: Boots of Blessed Travels
Ring: (Swap Slot) Circle of Malevolence

[Tobril]

Made a few minor edits and made the starting array slightly better.

[MonadRebelion]

I really enjoyed this thread.

I have 3 paladins: A two-handed weapon user in fury of the wild, a vanguard in legendary dreadnought, and a longsword pdk in divine crusader. It seems like a lot of people really like LD for paladins. I have to say LD is my least favorite. In fact, I'm not too hot on LD for melees right now in general. The reason is that most mobs get killed so fast these days that I have a really hard time keeping master's blitz up. So, the thing that is supposed to be most interesting about LD, I find, doesn't get much mileage in today's environment. Although I only pug these days this has been my experience in both low and high skull reaper content. With the somewhat recent update to destinies, I have found FotW paladins to be a lot of fun. Divine crusader has always been a solid choice. Although I don't have a paladin built for it, fatesinger is now a really good choice for paladins.

[Tobril]

Here's a video a friend of mine recorded to discuss his experiences leveling the build.

The original audience of this post was for experienced builders and did not take into account the sudden influx of new/returning players.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNWDrIa-jBs&feature=youtu.be&list=PLzxPAPYYBTA4-VdIGVBI6UKIdx1g3t0n9

[palladin9479]

Hmm still using the noob bait that is Exalted. At least in epics you can combine it with FoTW, in heroics it's just a huge waste of points that could go into something better. And the SD tree is a bit off, don't take the third Stance upgrade only the first is required and the second is optional. The two aura upgrades are better points spent because they give you and everyone nearby, +3 saving throws and +5 AC instead of just giving you +3 saving throws.

Something like this

https://i.imgur.com/uUuuEag.jpg

There are a few points to play with though, this picture is my "baseline" where I start at before playing with those remaining eight points, though I had just hit level 20 and hadn't put a point in the capstone yet (crit confirm would cover it). When doing heroics I just do 1-18, never take 19 and then when I hit cap I level up x 2 and either TR or go into epics. This means I base everything around a 72 enhancement and 18 levels for heroic leveling.

Looking at that spread it should become obvious why the 6-9 point cost of Exalted makes it terrible, there are so many better things to take in both tree's. It's why I asked for Exalted to be reduced to a single 2SP spend, or at most 1AP per upgrade. 6-9 AP for a +2/2 charge ability is just dumb, no matter its name.

[Tobril]

Hmm still using the noob bait that is Exalted. At least in epics you can combine it with FoTW, in heroics it's just a huge waste of points that could go into something better. And the SD tree is a bit off, don't take the third Stance upgrade only the first is required and the second is optional. The two aura upgrades are better points spent because they give you and everyone nearby, +3 saving throws and +5 AC instead of just giving you +3 saving throws.

Something like this

https://i.imgur.com/uUuuEag.jpg

There are a few points to play with though, this picture is my "baseline" where I start at before playing with those remaining eight points, though I had just hit level 20 and hadn't put a point in the capstone yet (crit confirm would cover it). When doing heroics I just do 1-18, never take 19 and then when I hit cap I level up x 2 and either TR or go into epics. This means I base everything around a 72 enhancement and 18 levels for heroic leveling.

Looking at that spread it should become obvious why the 6-9 point cost of Exalted makes it terrible, there are so many better things to take in both tree's. It's why I asked for Exalted to be reduced to a single 2SP spend, or at most 1AP per upgrade. 6-9 AP for a +2/2 charge ability is just dumb, no matter its name.


I'm running a setup like the picture on the first post currently and have more or less landed on the Chalice/Defender setup.

He deviated a bit in a direction I wouldn't have gone and that's OK. The core of his video review sounds pretty solid for someone just starting with the class.


I agree on saves aura, however, I prioritized max armour bonus for dodge instead of the AC aura. I couldn't afford the save aura after increasing dodge.

The Lord of Blades helps those who help themselves https://www.ddo.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.png

If I didn't go for the dodge cap I'd run exactly your image for the Defender tree, with the exception of CON instead of CHA. (personal preference to survive vengeance circles, CHA for more saves, damage, and tactics is also good)

[palladin9479]

I agree on saves aura, however, I prioritized max armour bonus for dodge instead of the AC aura. I couldn't afford the save aura after increasing dodge.


I have eight or so spare points, so you can go with another +3 saves or +3 dodge (I experimented with that last life) and so forth. 41/31 gives eight free points for stuff like that.

[Coffey]

I noticed you dont prioritize strikethrough in the human racial tree in heroics paladin9479. Other AP choices simply outweight it until epics?

[Tobril]

I have eight or so spare points, so you can go with another +3 saves or +3 dodge (I experimented with that last life) and so forth. 41/31 gives eight free points for stuff like that.


I usually do Falconry:

1 PRR
3 AMP
2 Sprint Boost
CHA or STR core if it evens out a stat, otherwise more sprints!


If I had 11 points to work with I would take Vistani:

PRR
Acrobatic (Favored Enemy instead on a Ranger, but that class has fleas so let's not worry about it)
Haste Boost
Deflect Arrows and Doublestrike cores



Sometimes a race has something really good and the points end up there. The extras are really up to the individual for preference.

The people I play with tend to have no-fail on all saves or ignore them completely. Different party comps could benefit more from the aura saves for sure.

[Coffey]

Here's a video a friend of mine recorded to discuss his experiences leveling the build.

The original audience of this post was for experienced builders and did not take into account the sudden influx of new/returning players.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNWDrIa-jBs&feature=youtu.be&list=PLzxPAPYYBTA4-VdIGVBI6UKIdx1g3t0n9

I watched the video and Samius invests in the falconry bird attacks for reapers with only 26 Wisdom. The attacks are still effective in R3?

[Tobril]

I watched the video and Samius invests in the falconry bird attacks for reapers with only 26 Wisdom. The attacks are still effective in R3?

I think he gets some value at low-mid levels because of twink 1-18 gear, lives, and reaper points.

His prioritization of when to take Chalice vs Defender trees is pretty good. Getting 31 in Defender at 18ish helps a ton for survival. He tends to play only to 18 and would have likely adjusted a bit if going to epics.


Also he really likes birds and if you leave bird facts on his YouTube video that will make his day :)

[Samiusbot]

I watched the video and Samius invests in the falconry bird attacks for reapers with only 26 Wisdom. The attacks are still effective in R3?

Even if the bird special effect does not land the melee attack is still at a boosted weapon value and the bird damage still procs. For 2 points I feel having a few more boosted attacks while in a Reaper's Strike boost or another combat augmented boost are few good.

Also if 50% of the time I can blind a reaper or randomly trip a problematic caster then the 2 points are well spent. Also I need something other than more sprint boost to get to Conditioning.;)

[palladin9479]

I noticed you dont prioritize strikethrough in the human racial tree in heroics paladin9479. Other AP choices simply outweight it until epics?

Yes, it's only 20% ST which is really small in the grand scheme of things, when I was doing human paly lives I ended up putting 3 of my lv 19/20 points there. When I took that screencap (May 23 2020) I had 5 Racial AP, and you need to spend 5 to get access to the second tier where the combat bonus's are. The level build has exactly 41 in KoTC and 31 in SD, meaning only eight are "free" and we don't take level's 19 and 20 until we hit cap, so that's the eight right there. I actually have a specific pattern that gets the best options the quickest for sprinting to 20. 20 Paladin is my primary build for doing racials and running epics because of how solo friendly it is, I can solo R1 at any level on any quest without stress or anything involved running this way.

First eight in SD for the bonus LoH and stance.

Then it's all KoTC until around level nine or so where I start saving points up. When I hit 12 I spend those saved points and get all the T5 stuff, like all of it at once. Then it's putting points into SD until cap. I also hold off doing RL until I hit 12 so I have ascendancy and Holy Retribution and can just laugh at that entire chain. RL -> Lords March -> Giant Hold -> Sharn is my usual progression with Vale and Evening Star used at the very end.

Note on universals, even with the one free point they generally aren't worth it on Paladin. KoTC and SD have so many really nice things that there simply isn't sufficient spare AP for other tree's. People spend points there to get INT/WIS to hit/damage and / or some form of Trance ability to provide +Insight bonus's, Paladin already has it's own trance ability and is heavily built around STR or CHA. There are already a large set of offensive click'y abilities, so much that in Epics you start ignoring a bunch because the bar simply doesn't have room and you never end up using them.

[Quikster]

I usually do Falconry:

1 PRR
3 AMP
2 Sprint Boost
CHA or STR core if it evens out a stat, otherwise more sprints!


If I had 11 points to work with I would take Vistani:

PRR
Acrobatic (Favored Enemy instead on a Ranger, but that class has fleas so let's not worry about it)
Haste Boost
Deflect Arrows and Doublestrike cores



Sometimes a race has something really good and the points end up there. The extras are really up to the individual for preference.

The people I play with tend to have no-fail on all saves or ignore them completely. Different party comps could benefit more from the aura saves for sure.

He means people he plays with have no fail saves or their saves are such garbage it wouldn’t help :)

[Tobril]

Updated feats to make them cleaner to read and more simple for new/returning players.

[Tobril]

New universal tree makes it quite tempting to adjust as follows:



Drop Toughness or another non-combat feat of your choice for Magical Training (Pre-req for the new tree)
Spend 7 of the 8 "free" Action Points in the new tree to get CHA for hit and damage
Run a more CHA focused gear list for 30+ level quest "reaper loop" for first time bonuses.
Adjust stats a bit for more CHA, spend all level ups there (make sure you still meet THF STR requirements, 15 to start and 17 to end)



Having the main stat AND battle trance work from the same ability tends to push DPS ahead of a split-stat setup.

Tactics will also go up and allow better use of Trip and the optional Stunning Blow.

[streetlight]

New universal tree makes it quite tempting to adjust as follows:



Drop Toughness or another non-combat feat of your choice for Magical Training (Pre-req for the new tree)
Spend 7 of the 8 "free" Action Points in the new tree to get CHA for hit and damage
Run a more CHA focused gear list for 30+ level quest "reaper loop" for first time bonuses.
Adjust stats a bit for more CHA, spend all level ups there (make sure you still meet THF STR requirements, 15 to start and 17 to end)



Having the main stat AND battle trance work from the same ability tends to push DPS ahead of a split-stat setup.

Tactics will also go up and allow better use of Trip and the optional Stunning Blow.

I'm excited for the new tree to come and to start this build on my first ER + TR today. If I like this I plan to stick with it for a lot of racial lives as I'm just getting started. Very excited! Starting off with Dwarf first because it will be my second dwarf life and want the +1 Con.

How do you prioritize what Epic Past lives to get? Would you recommend I ER in the Melee sphere until I get all of those? Or split them up?

[Tobril]

I'm excited for the new tree to come and to start this build on my first ER + TR today. If I like this I plan to stick with it for a lot of racial lives as I'm just getting started. Very excited! Starting off with Dwarf first because it will be my second dwarf life and want the +1 Con.

How do you prioritize what Epic Past lives to get? Would you recommend I ER in the Melee sphere until I get all of those? Or split them up?


I'd recommend getting a stack of each sphere to unlock the extra twist as a first step.

My usual melee setup is:

Arcane - Enchant Weapon
Divine - Ancient Blessings
Martial - Doublestrike
Primal - Ancient Power


The order you get lives in depends on what you like to play. That said, I prioritized additional lives based on what I felt would help any build the most:

Primal for HP
Divine for PRR
Arcane for Elemental Resistance %
Martial for AC


Regardless of order I'd pick up a full stack before moving on to another stance.

[LuminoZero]

New universal tree makes it quite tempting to adjust as follows:



Drop Toughness or another non-combat feat of your choice for Magical Training (Pre-req for the new tree)
Spend 7 of the 8 "free" Action Points in the new tree to get CHA for hit and damage
Run a more CHA focused gear list for 30+ level quest "reaper loop" for first time bonuses.
Adjust stats a bit for more CHA, spend all level ups there (make sure you still meet THF STR requirements, 15 to start and 17 to end)



Having the main stat AND battle trance work from the same ability tends to push DPS ahead of a split-stat setup.

Tactics will also go up and allow better use of Trip and the optional Stunning Blow.

Does this account for that fact that there are much easier sources of Strength stacking than there are for Charisma stacking? This feels like an interesting theory, but I'm curious if anybody has some hard numbers to put out on how useful it is in practice.

[Tobril]

Does this account for that fact that there are much easier sources of Strength stacking than there are for Charisma stacking? This feels like an interesting theory, but I'm curious if anybody has some hard numbers to put out on how useful it is in practice.

Charisma is easier to gear for currently and main+stance being the same will put you ahead on DPS and tactics DC.

(I tested wolves using Wisdom+falconry stance on the boss kobalds from a year ago and they were ~15-20 seconds faster than Strength+Wisdom)


You also won't get many of those strength (rage) bonuses unless running out of stance. (Fury setup as an exception)

Psionic bonuses are limited to clickies and cookies.

The 4 alchemical Strength from the cannith infusion won't put you ahead of a full Charisma setup.


If nothing else the tactics will help tremendously for stunning blow on soft targets and trip.

[Tobril]

Side Note: Something like this will be ridiculously potent for an endgame setup. (Adjust gearing for Feywild when it arrives.)



Class and Feat Selection
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Level Class · · · · · ·Feats
1 · · Paladin(1)· · · ·Standard: Magical Training
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Follower of Faith: Follower of the Lord of Blades
2 · · Paladin(2)· · · ·
3 · · Paladin(3)· · · ·Standard: Adamantine Body
4 · · Paladin(4)· · · ·Charisma: +1 Level up
5 · · Paladin(5)· · · ·
6 · · Paladin(6)· · · ·Standard: Two Handed Fighting
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Deity: Bladesworn Transformation
7 · · Paladin(7)· · · ·
8 · · Paladin(8)· · · ·Charisma: +1 Level up
9 · · Paladin(9)· · · ·Standard: Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
10· · Paladin(10) · · ·
11· · Paladin(11) · · ·
12· · Paladin(12) · · ·Standard: Improved Two Handed Fighting
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Charisma: +1 Level up
13· · Paladin(13) · · ·
14· · Paladin(14) · · ·
15· · Paladin(15) · · ·Standard: Greater Two Handed Fighting
16· · Paladin(16) · · ·Charisma: +1 Level up
17· · Paladin(17) · · ·
18· · Paladin(18) · · ·Standard: Quicken Spell
19· · Paladin(19) · · ·
20· · Paladin(20) · · ·Charisma: +1 Level up
21· · Epic(1) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Overwhelming Critical
22· · Epic(2) · · · · ·
23· · Epic(3) · · · · ·
24· · Epic(4) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Precision
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Charisma: +1 Level up
25· · Epic(5) · · · · ·
26· · Epic(6) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
27· · Epic(7) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Stunning Blow
28· · Epic(8) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Charisma: +1 Level up
29· · Epic(9) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Dire Charge
30· · Epic(10)· · · · ·Epic Feat: Completionist
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Legendary: Scion of Arborea

Enhancements: 80 APs, Racial 14, Universal 1
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bladeforged - Points spent: 16
1 Core ·(1) Improved Fortification I
2 Tier1 (1) Repair Systems: Mechanist
3 Tier1 (1) Repair Systems: Mechanist
4 Tier1 (1) Repair Systems: Mechanist
5 Core ·(2) Constitution I
6 Tier2 (2) Communion of Scribing
7 Tier2 (2) Communion of Scribing
8 Tier2 (2) Communion of Scribing
9 Tier2 (1) Great Weapon Aptitude
10 Tier2 (1) Great Weapon Aptitude
11 Tier2 (1) Great Weapon Aptitude
12 Tier4 (1) Weapon Attachment
--Power of the Forge-- if you have the +2 racial tome
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Knight of the Chalice - Points spent: 41
1 Core ·(1) Slayer of Evil I
2 Tier1 (2) Holy Combatant I
3 Tier1 (1) Improved Second Strikes
4 Tier1 (1) Improved Second Strikes
5 Tier1 (1) Improved Second Strikes
6 Core ·(1) Courage of Heaven
7 Tier2 (1) Divine Might
8 Tier2 (1) Divine Might
9 Tier2 (2) Exalted Attack: Exalted Cleave
10 Tier2 (1) Action Boost: Melee/Ranged Power
11 Tier2 (1) Action Boost: Melee/Ranged Power
12 Tier2 (1) Action Boost: Melee/Ranged Power
13 Core ·(1) Slayer of Evil II
14 Tier2 (2) Adept Combatant
15 Tier3 (2) Holy Combatant II
16 Tier3 (1) Divine Sacrifice: Divine Sacrifice
17 Tier3 (2) Ability I: +1 Charisma
18 Tier4 (2) Ability II: +1 Charisma
19 Core ·(1) Improved Courage of Heaven
20 Tier3 (1) Lead the Charge
21 Tier4 (2) Vigor of Life I
22 Tier4 (1) Censure Demons
23 Tier4 (2) Knight's Training
24 Core ·(1) Slayer of Evil III
25 Tier5 (2) Ascendancy
26 Tier5 (1) Censure Outsiders
27 Tier5 (2) Vigor of Life II
28 Tier5 (2) Avenging Attack: Avenging Cleave
29 Tier5 (1) Holy Retribution: Holy Retribution
30 Core ·(1) Champion of Good
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sacred Defender - Points spent: 31
1 Core ·(1) Holy Bastion
2 Tier1 (1) Extra Lay on Hands
3 Tier1 (1) Extra Lay on Hands
4 Tier1 (1) Extra Lay on Hands
5 Tier1 (1) Improved Sacred Defense I: Durable Defense
6 Tier1 (1) Improved Sacred Defense I: Durable Defense
7 Tier1 (1) Improved Sacred Defense I: Durable Defense
8 Tier1 (1) Sacred Armor Mastery
9 Tier1 (1) Sacred Armor Mastery
10 Core ·(1) Sacred Defence
11 Core ·(1) Divine Righteousness
12 Tier3 (1) Greater Sacred Defense I: Tenacious Defense
13 Tier3 (1) Greater Sacred Defense I: Tenacious Defense
14 Tier3 (1) Greater Sacred Defense I: Tenacious Defense
15 Tier3 (2) Ability I: +1 Constitution
16 Tier1 (1) Sacred Armor Mastery
17 Tier2 (1) Improved Sacred Defense II: Resilient Defense
18 Tier2 (1) Improved Sacred Defense II: Resilient Defense
19 Tier2 (1) Improved Sacred Defense II: Resilient Defense
20 Core ·(1) Redemption
21 Tier4 (2) Ability II: +1 Constitution
22 Tier4 (1) Greater Sacred Defense II: Hardy Defense
23 Tier4 (1) Greater Sacred Defense II: Hardy Defense
24 Tier4 (1) Greater Sacred Defense II: Hardy Defense
25 Tier4 (1) Swift Defense
26 Tier4 (1) Reinforced Defense I: Reinforced Armor
27 Tier4 (1) Reinforced Defense I: Reinforced Armor
28 Tier4 (1) Reinforced Defense I: Reinforced Armor
29 Core ·(1) Glorious Stand
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Equipped Gear Set : PDK
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Armor · · · · Legendary Umbral Soul
· · · · · · · +15 Enhancement Bonus
· · · · · · · Fortification +214%
· · · · · · · Physical Sheltering +54
· · · · · · · Healing Amplification +85
· · · · · · · False Life +81
· · · · · · · Legendary Part of the Family
· · · · · · · Green: +2 Sapphire of Armored Agility
· · · · · · · Mythic: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Reaper: Empty augment slot
Belt· · · · · Legendary Chains
· · · · · · · Legendary Slavelords Prefix: Sheltering +45
· · · · · · · Legendary Slavelords Suffix: Spell Lore Repair +27
· · · · · · · Legendary Slavelords Extra: Vertigo +20
· · · · · · · Legendary Slavelords Bonus: Quality Strength +4
· · · · · · · Legendary Slavelords Set Bonus: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Mythic: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Reaper: Empty augment slot
Boots · · · · Legendary Sunken Slippers
· · · · · · · Lesser Displacement
· · · · · · · Insightful Potency +77
· · · · · · · Quality Potency +38
· · · · · · · Nearly Finished (Qual IWC): +5 Quality Charisma
· · · · · · · Yellow: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Mythic: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Reaper: Empty augment slot
Bracers · · · Brightlord, the Sigil of the Flame
· · · · · · · Charisma +22
· · · · · · · Speed +30%
· · · · · · · Armor-Piercing +36
· · · · · · · Extra Smites
· · · · · · · Green: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Yellow: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Blue: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Mythic: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Reaper: Empty augment slot
Cloak · · · · Legendary Cloak of Balance
· · · · · · · Freedom of Movement
· · · · · · · Insightful Seeker +10
· · · · · · · Parrying +10
· · · · · · · Nearly Finished (Qual SDC): +5 Quality Constitution
· · · · · · · Green: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Mythic: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Reaper: Empty augment slot
Gloves· · · · Legendary Hammerfist
· · · · · · · Insightful Doublestrike +11%
· · · · · · · Cannith Combat Infusion
· · · · · · · Seeker +21
· · · · · · · Insightful Deadly +8
· · · · · · · Legendary Part of the Family
· · · · · · · Blue: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Mythic: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Reaper: Empty augment slot
Goggles · · · Legendary Collective Sight
· · · · · · · Quality Resistance +4
· · · · · · · Temperance of Belief
· · · · · · · Nearly Finished (SDCIWC): +21 Constitution
· · · · · · · Nearly Finished (Ins SDCIWC): +10 Insightful Charisma
· · · · · · · Blue: +8 Sapphire of Resistance
· · · · · · · Mythic: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Reaper: Empty augment slot
Helmet· · · · Legendary Executioner's Helm
· · · · · · · Insightful Deception VII
· · · · · · · Relentless Fury
· · · · · · · Seeker XVII
· · · · · · · Quality Combat Mastery +4
· · · · · · · Green: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Legendary Slavelords Set Bonus: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Mythic: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Reaper: Empty augment slot
Necklace· · · The Family's Blessing
· · · · · · · Quality Assassinate +2
· · · · · · · Insightful Armor-Piercing +16
· · · · · · · Deadly +17
· · · · · · · Doublestrike +24%
· · · · · · · Legendary Part of the Family
· · · · · · · Yellow: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Blue: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Mythic: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Reaper: Empty augment slot
Quiver· · · · Epic Quiver of Alacrity
· · · · · · · Concentration -50
· · · · · · · Ranged Speed XV
· · · · · · · Stealth Strike 15%
· · · · · · · Insightful Sneak Attack Bonus 4
· · · · · · · Doubleshot +8%
· · · · · · · Mythic: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Reaper: Empty augment slot
Ring1 · · · · Legendary Five Rings
· · · · · · · Legendary Slavelords Prefix: Strength +17
· · · · · · · Legendary Slavelords Suffix: Spell Power Repair +185
· · · · · · · Legendary Slavelords Extra: Shatter +20
· · · · · · · Legendary Slavelords Bonus: Quality PRR +11
· · · · · · · Legendary Slavelords Set Bonus: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Mythic: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Reaper: Empty augment slot
Ring2 · · · · Legendary Celestial Ruby Ring
· · · · · · · Stunning +23
· · · · · · · Accuracy +33
· · · · · · · Ghostly
· · · · · · · Nearly Finished (SDI): +21 Dexterity
· · · · · · · Green: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Mythic: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Reaper: Empty augment slot
Trinket · · · Bloodrage Chrism
· · · · · · · Healing Amplification +83
· · · · · · · Calamitous Blows
· · · · · · · Bloodrage Defense
· · · · · · · Rune-fuelled Warding
· · · · · · · Unnatural
· · · · · · · Crypt Raider Set (Legendary)
· · · · · · · Blue: Globe of True Imperial Blood
· · · · · · · Green: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Mythic: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Reaper: Empty augment slot
Weapon1 · · · The Reflection of Blackrazor
· · · · · · · Damage and Type 5[2d6+6] + 15 Slash, Magic
· · · · · · · Critical Threat Range 19-20 x2
· · · · · · · +15 Enhancement Bonus
· · · · · · · Overwhelming Stealer of Souls
· · · · · · · Keen V
· · · · · · · Entropic 9
· · · · · · · Vampirism 4
· · · · · · · Psychic Ward
· · · · · · · Red: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Orange: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Mythic: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Reaper: Empty augment slot
· · · · · · · Sentient Weapon Personality:
· · · · · · · Filigree 1: Sanctified Fervor: Charisma
· · · · · · · Filigree 2: Sanctified Fervor: Charisma
· · · · · · · Filigree 3: Sanctified Fervor: Charisma
· · · · · · · Filigree 4: Sanctified Fervor: Charisma
· · · · · · · Filigree 5: Sanctified Fervor: Melee Power
· · · · · · · Filigree 6: Sucker Punch/One Against Many: +2 Strength
· · · · · · · Filigree 7: Sucker Punch/One Against Many: +2 Strength
· · · · · · · Filigree 8: One Against Many: Melee Power
· · · · · · · Filigree 9: To Hell and Back/Embraced by Light: +2 Charisma
· · · · · · · Filigree 10: To Hell and Back: Charisma
· · · · · · · Filigree 11: To Hell and Back/Embraced by Light: +2 Charisma
· · · · · · · Filigree 12:
· · · · · · · Filigree 13:
· · · · · · · Filigree 14:
· · · · · · · Filigree 15:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Stonewalljack]

New universal tree makes it quite tempting to adjust as follows:



Drop Toughness or another non-combat feat of your choice for Magical Training (Pre-req for the new tree)
Spend 7 of the 8 "free" Action Points in the new tree to get CHA for hit and damage
Run a more CHA focused gear list for 30+ level quest "reaper loop" for first time bonuses.
Adjust stats a bit for more CHA, spend all level ups there (make sure you still meet THF STR requirements, 15 to start and 17 to end)


Tactics will also go up and allow better use of Trip and the optional Stunning Blow.

I’m a newer player planning my first reincarnation and would like to try your paladin build with the illusionist tree. I’ve been hearing a lot about how great color spray is; would it be worth dropping points to get it? Like maybe drop the str bonus to sacred defense since charisma will be your primary stat? Of course that would also drop the big 5th core from sacred defense, and I’m unsure how that would compare vs. color spray if I’m going to try running some quests on reaper.

[Tobril]

I’m a newer player planning my first reincarnation and would like to try your paladin build with the illusionist tree. I’ve been hearing a lot about how great color spray is; would it be worth dropping points to get it? Like maybe drop the str bonus to sacred defense since charisma will be your primary stat? Of course that would also drop the big 5th core from sacred defense, and I’m unsure how that would compare vs. color spray if I’m going to try running some quests on reaper.


I'd recommend sticking to caster or melee until you get a better feel for the game.

This build doesn't really support casting from a feat/gear perspective. It does, however, chop things in half pretty well while staying alive.

[Stonewalljack]

I'd recommend sticking to caster or melee until you get a better feel for the game.

This build doesn't really support casting from a feat/gear perspective. It does, however, chop things in half pretty well while staying alive.

Thanks! Also thanks for putting the build together, it helps a lot.

[lord_of_rage]

I’m a newer player planning my first reincarnation and would like to try your paladin build with the illusionist tree. I’ve been hearing a lot about how great color spray is; would it be worth dropping points to get it? Like maybe drop the str bonus to sacred defense since charisma will be your primary stat? Of course that would also drop the big 5th core from sacred defense, and I’m unsure how that would compare vs. color spray if I’m going to try running some quests on reaper.

I've done 2 Paladin lives since the Illusionist tree dropped. Personally I find that Greater Color Spray is worth the investment, but I don't solo anything above r3. It scales of your highest of Int,Wis, or Cha. It can daze mobs, and dazed makes mobs helpless. Cast it, and bash it with your Carnifex, or Greatsword. It also works on Reapers. Illusory Weaponry is great because Imbue with Shadow makes your weapons material force which means you won't take weapon damage while hittin Oozes,or rusties. I find that I don't miss the 5th core from Sacred Defender as GCS is as good as it is in the majority of quests. In Sacred Defense I take both Tenacious, and Hardy Defense. I don't use strength on a cha based build using the to hit, and damage from the Illusionist tree. You do have to shift feats around to fit magical training in. If you have the daily dice banked up to hit level three, I would go Magical Training at level1, and THF at 3. If you don't have the dice banked up I would go THF at 1, and Magical training at 3. I do something like what I've posted below, but with guild buffs, gear, and past lives I don't need Precision until later. It's truly up to you, and how your character feels when you play. Cheers.

1 Magical training
1 Follower of the Sovereign Host
3 Two Hand Fighting
6 Improved Two Hand Fighting
9 Improved Critical Slash
12 Greater Two Handed Fighting
15 Force Of Personality
18 Precision
21 Overwhelming Critical
24 Quicken or Quick Draw
26 Perfect Two Handed Fighting
27 Blinding Speed
28 Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
29 Dire Charge, or something else.
30 Empty Feat Slot
30 Sion of Arborea

[Tobril]

I've played around a bit with the greater color spray on a sorc and it's pretty good.

Consider my mind changed for heroic leveling.

It may fall off in higher skulls and post 20 depending how it's actually working with regards to DCs.

If it does scale up well drop a bit of defender and pick up the magic missile immunity on the way up to 11 points in fey.

Use your best judgement with regards to the 10% HP in defender when you raid or do high skulls. Enhancements can be changed and you have high Charisma for haggle so gold shouldn't be an issue.

[Quikster]

I've played around a bit with the greater color spray on a sorc and it's pretty good.

Consider my mind changed for heroic leveling.

It may fall off in higher skulls and post 20 depending how it's actually working with regards to DCs.

If it does scale up well drop a bit of defender and pick up the magic missile immunity on the way up to 11 points in fey.

Use your best judgement with regards to the 10% HP in defender when you raid or do high skulls. Enhancements can be changed and you have high Charisma for haggle so gold shouldn't be an issue.

No idea how well it would be on a paladin, but on my sorc it's pretty good. Must have imo.

[lord_of_rage]

I've played around a bit with the greater color spray on a sorc and it's pretty good.

Consider my mind changed for heroic leveling.

It may fall off in higher skulls and post 20 depending how it's actually working with regards to DCs.

If it does scale up well drop a bit of defender and pick up the magic missile immunity on the way up to 11 points in fey.

Use your best judgement with regards to the 10% HP in defender when you raid or do high skulls. Enhancements can be changed and you have high Charisma for haggle so gold shouldn't be an issue.

From my experience GCS scales fine in epic content. I've had no DC issues up to R3 in L Sharn. I haven't pushed beyond R3 solo. Though I don't see most newer players going up that high solo. When it stops working based on the content they are running they can always spec out it. At this point I think it's a must take for easier leveling, and gear farming in non raids.

[Stonewalljack]

Thanks for the follow up details on illusionist builds! Looking forward to playing with it as soon as I can farm enough tokens of the twelve.

[Tobril]

OK the greater color spray is waaaay overperforming in heroics.

Highly recommend while 1-20, especially if there's no one else for CC or you need a solution for reapers.


Epic/legendary content I'm not sure yet due to EDF (epic defensive fighting) cutting down the range to touch.

Could be worthwhile if you're brave/skilled and there's no other CC.


Stick the the basic plan otherwise and for raids.

[lord_of_rage]

OK the greater color spray is waaaay overperforming in heroics.

Highly recommend while 1-20, especially if there's no one else for CC or you need a solution for reapers.


Epic/legendary content I'm not sure yet due to EDF (epic defensive fighting) cutting down the range to touch.

Could be worthwhile if you're brave/skilled and there's no other CC.


Stick the the basic plan otherwise and for raids.

Epic Defensive Fighting only gives an additional 5% HP bonus above Tenacious Defense at EDF's maximum. EDF gives a max 25% competence bonus to HP. Tenacious Defense gives 20% at it's max. I find myself rarely using EDF because of that, and that allows full GCS usage.

[Marshal_Lannes]

After a lengthy hiatus, I've returned to the game and was looking for a build to get me acclimated again to DDO. I've been running this Paladin and have been pleased with its performance. Thank you for putting this together. I run R1 if soloing and R2-3 when in a group and heroic Pally has been up to the challenge. I'm going to use this for a bit and run through some racial lives as I get back into the game. Some things I noticed that may be useful to players trying this out.

Weapon progression for me has been - L2 thru 5 vorpal greatsword. Right around 6 you'll start to run into mobs (in reaper) you can't vorp anymore. L6-9 Mythic Sword of the Thirty with red flame augment. Feels powerful even when facing reaper Ogres/Trolls. L10-20 Sword of Shadows with an unbeatable crit profile and a weapon that keeps getting better since it scales extremely well with the ample sources of melee power now in the game this remains a magnificent weapon. I have both heroic and epic versions of this sword and I suspect the epic version is better or at least equal to the Black Razer posted mentioned here. SoS pairs well with precision so that should be a priority over power attack.

Lead the Charge is really good. It has so many uses. You can use it to run down those enemies fleeing/trying to set off boxes. You can use it to grab a mob that a teammate has agro'd on them kiting around. As an opening combat move, you can surge into a group then cleave away. Probably worth getting the full package here for a 5W strike.

I can see why Quicken may be needed. For example, Divine Righteousness and action boost are on the same timer. That's a significant pause in combat situations. Divine Might is on a different time so it really depends on how you use your combat keys whether or not it's worth the feat. Especially when consideration should be given to Extend. Extend is an amazing quality of life improvement to Paladins as it buffs up all their spell durations allowing you to focus on fighting and not on maintaining buffs. This is especially true for Angelskin, Righteous Command, Prayer, and even Zeal. In the reality of combat knowing you'll always have these buffs up vs having them lapse should be considered depending on what type of player you are and how much you want to micromanage. For humans, Extend competes with Quicken and Toughness. For non-humans, the choice is more sticky as it competes with Force of Personality. This is the L15 feat dilemma.

For greater defensive stance I go with 20% HP and CON. I figure the +10 CON and huge HP boost is better than +3 to hit/dmg although everyone's results may vary here and you have the option to be more offensively focused. I'm in the your DPS is zero when you're dead camp so I tend to always want more HPs.

All in all a fun, versatile melee build. Five stars, excellent write-up.

[unhappymeal]

I've done 2 Paladin lives since the Illusionist tree dropped. Personally I find that Greater Color Spray is worth the investment, but I don't solo anything above r3. It scales of your highest of Int,Wis, or Cha. It can daze mobs, and dazed makes mobs helpless. Cast it, and bash it with your Carnifex, or Greatsword. It also works on Reapers. Illusory Weaponry is great because Imbue with Shadow makes your weapons material force which means you won't take weapon damage while hittin Oozes,or rusties. I find that I don't miss the 5th core from Sacred Defender as GCS is as good as it is in the majority of quests. In Sacred Defense I take both Tenacious, and Hardy Defense. I don't use strength on a cha based build using the to hit, and damage from the Illusionist tree. You do have to shift feats around to fit magical training in. If you have the daily dice banked up to hit level three, I would go Magical Training at level1, and THF at 3. If you don't have the dice banked up I would go THF at 1, and Magical training at 3. I do something like what I've posted below, but with guild buffs, gear, and past lives I don't need Precision until later. It's truly up to you, and how your character feels when you play. Cheers.

1 Magical training
1 Follower of the Sovereign Host
3 Two Hand Fighting
6 Improved Two Hand Fighting
9 Improved Critical Slash
12 Greater Two Handed Fighting
15 Force Of Personality
18 Precision
21 Overwhelming Critical
24 Quicken or Quick Draw
26 Perfect Two Handed Fighting
27 Blinding Speed
28 Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
29 Dire Charge, or something else.
30 Empty Feat Slot
30 Sion of Arborea

Any stat recommendations for a 28 point build? Also, is it worth splashing Rogue if I'm just taking this to 20 to reincarnate?

[Tobril]

Any stat recommendations for a 28 point build? Also, is it worth splashing Rogue if I'm just taking this to 20 to reincarnate?

I would recommend staying pure on a 28 point build. You won't have the points to invest in trapping.


Something like:

15 (you'll need a +2 tome here)
8
16
8
8
16

[unhappymeal]

I would recommend staying pure on a 28 point build. You won't have the points to invest in trapping.


Something like:

15 (you'll need a +2 tome here)
8
16
8
8
16

Thanks. I assume level-up points go into CHA to play with Feydark Illusionist?

[PrinceOfAsphodel]

For greater defensive stance I go with 20% HP and CON. I figure the +10 CON and huge HP boost is better than +3 to hit/dmg although everyone's results may vary here and you have the option to be more offensively focused. I'm in the your DPS is zero when you're dead camp so I tend to always want more HPs.



I agree with your philosophy of keeping a high survivability but you get +20%-25% HP from Epic Defensive Fighting, so getting it from Sacred Defender is redundant.

[Tobril]

Thanks. I assume level-up points go into CHA to play with Feydark Illusionist?

If you're doing CHA to hit and damage, yes.

If you're STR to hit and damage the answer is "that's OK, just keep your Divine Might running".


People with advanced gearsets full of raid items may choose as they see fit for their individual situation and should have the knowledge to do so.

[Hobgoblin]

this is a more advanced question, but would it be viable to go cha based on a maul pally?

Im str based right now with +6 tomes in str and cha and I hit 86 str with a 60 cha

Can I hit anything like that on a cha based? Is it worth it?

[Tobril]

this is a more advanced question, but would it be viable to go cha based on a maul pally?

Im str based right now with +6 tomes in str and cha and I hit 86 str with a 60 cha

Can I hit anything like that on a cha based? Is it worth it?


Silvanus will still be rather potent.

You'll even maintain the option of sky high tactics for 6 person content by switching to a greatsword and spending a bit in the PDK tree.


You'll have to re-tool a bit, but should be able to more or less flip those numbers. (STR ~50ish is still good for regular trip)

Main stat being the same as trance stat comes out slightly ahead for DPS and way ahead for tactics.


I'd look at the Sharn set, Chrism, Brightlord for the base of a THF solution.