First Life Rogue Advice (More of a specialized question)

[Krimleingod]

Greetings,

Two of my friends and I have started playing DDO, we've played a little bit over the years but don't really know the ins and outs of the specific details of things.

I'm the rogue of the party, and we're more or less planning to go through the majority of the game on the hardcore world. We like to do dungeons on elite the first time and only run each dungeon once, kind of in a realistic manner as you would in real life. (We're a little suicidal lol). The bottom line is, I want to build a rogue that focuses 100% purely on spotting, searching and disabling traps. I'm fine with spending DDO points to achieve this goal. My main problem has been with spotting. Most veteran players know where traps are and don't need the spot skill, so they rely on intelligence to search and disarm them. That's not the case for us, for the most part we are going through dungeons for the first time together, so without spot, I'm going to end up face checking and dying, and on a hardcore server, that's just not ideal. I just got to level 5 and we attempted the waterworks and lets just say it didn't end well due to lack of spotting on my part.

So, this is sort of a specific request. But if anyone knows how I can attain a high enough spot to remain viable throughout the game and spot the vast majority of traps on elite difficulty while maintaining the necessary skills to both search and disable traps, I would really appreciate the advice. Whether that's what gear to get at certain levels, how to distribute stat points, what tomes I would need, whether what I'm asking for is even possible because I know some traps require insanely high spot.

If there is a veteran out there who can answer this question for me, I would very much appreciate it.

Thanks!

[KoobTheProud]

Take the enhancements in the Mechanic tree that up your spot/search and disable/open skills.

If you have racial enhancements that increase spot/search (Elvish Keen Senses) or disable/open (Human Skill Focus) take those. Human, Half-Elf and other Elves are probably the best choice for a Rogue who is not going to be very twinked right off the bat. Human is probably the best overall because you can also take the Human Versatility Skill Boost Enhancement and it is picked with the 1st racial point you spend, so good help right off the bat.

Get the best tools you can and make sure the party passes you tools out of the chests when they drop. Getting the first level of Free Agent Favor gets you a vendor who sells +2 tools, the second level gets you +4 tools. Make sure you have your best tools first in your inventory. The game uses the leftmost stack in your inventory and it will gladly use an inferior set of tools if that is what is there. This is also a good reason not to pick up basic tools at any point. They will go into the leftmost available slot in your inventory and if that is to the left of your good tools well you'll be using the bad ones instead until you figure it out.

Assuming you are Human and going Int/Con/Dex - which is probably the right move on hardcore - it helps if you have somebody in the party with good spot skills. This is usually a Monk, Ranger or Druid, all of whom have enough skill points to take Spot as a class skill without totally messing something else up. A Divine hireling will also check this box because they tend to have very good spot skills.

On a Human if you use a feat on a non-combat or defense capability don't take the skill focus type feats. Take the Orien Dragonmark instead. This will give you Expeditious Retreat for early mobility and then Dimension Door which provides a lot of value to a party that is exploring the instances for the first time.

BTW, it is very ambitious to plan to run Elite on the HC server on 1st-life characters without a lot of experience in the instances. Things get very deadly for untwinked 1st-lifers as soon as you begin to see Kobold Shamans. That's level 3 or so.

[Dragavon]

To do what you want you really have to have an optimal build and also gear.

Doing this on the hardcore server is very challenging.

First, the only real option if you want to be the best trapper you can be is to be an intelligence based rogue mechanic. Boost your intelligence as much as you can with enhancements. Buying the harper tree, to get int bonus to attack and damage, and the Know the angles buff is very good.

You can consider buying +5 skill tomes in the DDO store, if you really want to spend points on this project. There is an option to buy 6 +5 skill tomes at once for 3045 DDO points, then when you open the tome you get to choose the skills you want. Take spot, search, disable, then whatever.

Stat tomes can also be very valuable. Intelligence, wisdom and dexterity will help you the most.

You also want to have good gear with spot bonus equipped at all times. Search and disable can be swapped in when you need them. But finding good gear on hardcore server can be difficult.

[DYWYPI]

You'll likely have some issues with keeping your Spot high enough on a first life pure Rogue. Unless you can acquire good Spot equipment or decide to build specifically for trapping, etc. I'm assuming you will be playing Elite quests at no more than two levels below your actual Character level.

Refer to the following: https://ddowiki.com/page/DDO_information_project/Spot_and_Search that will give you a good guideline on the suspected Spot/Search DCs for heroic quests and thus what minimum Spot and Search values you should be aiming towards.

[Fenrisulven7]

If you survive to play the Red Fen's (7th lvl quest chain) choose the Raven's Set (Goggles and Gloves). Combined, they will give you a +10 to spot and search starting at 7th lvl. Should last you another 5 levels.

Although I would caution against investing too much $$ on this toon - I admire your bravery but a trapper running "new" content on elite is not long for this world.

Good luck.


Edit: it's assumed you already know this, but just in case... Wisdom is the stat your Spot skill is based on.

[AlmGhandi]

You'll likely have some issues with keeping your Spot high enough on a first life pure Rogue. Unless you can acquire good Spot equipment or decide to build specifically for trapping, etc. I'm assuming you will be playing Elite quests at no more than two levels below your actual Character level.

Refer to the following: https://ddowiki.com/page/DDO_information_project/Spot_and_Search that will give you a good guideline on the suspected Spot/Search DCs for heroic quests and thus what minimum Spot and Search values you should be aiming towards.

I have no Problems spotting on first life toon on hardcore…. wis is 10.

The harper tree has bonuses to skills… mechanic has bonuses to skills. Keep the spot skill maxed. Keep your eye out for gear…. check the Auction House for cheap items (Forget what the prefix/Suffix is).

One tip would be…. don't run too fast!!! Sometimes by the time the "spot" Icon appears you can already be staying in the trap.

Another tip would be: Play an artificer….. :)

[Fenrisulven7]

Also look at Cannith Crafting - you can make Spot gear at level one, and keep upgrading it to max every few levels.

Limiting factors are the ingredients needed: 15 Amber Vials and 5 Khyber Prayer Pamphlets.

http://ccplanner.byethost14.com/main.html?item=0_1_5_272_272_272_0_0_0_0

[AlmGhandi]

Also look at Cannith Crafting - you can make Spot gear at level one, and keep upgrading it to max every few levels.

Limiting factors are the ingredients needed: 15 Amber Vials and 5 Khyber Prayer Pamphlets.


Cannith Crafting is a good reason to Play an Arti…..

[marinersfan]

Could try 18 bard/2 rogue (or a few more rogue to put more ap into skill boosts?) for better healing and easier self-buffing/umd?? This way you'd still be able to Max rogue skills but also be able to provide some healing, buffing, and fairly easy crowd control (with fascinate)

[Dragavon]

Also look at Cannith Crafting - you can make Spot gear at level one, and keep upgrading it to max every few levels.

Limiting factors are the ingredients needed: 15 Amber Vials and 5 Khyber Prayer Pamphlets.

http://ccplanner.byethost14.com/main.html?item=0_1_5_272_272_272_0_0_0_0

And getting your crafting skill to the required level to make anything useful on hardcore.

[Fenrisulven7]

And getting your crafting skill to the required level to make anything useful on hardcore.

You can craft +3 spot goggles right out of the gate as a Level 1 Crafter. (although Borderlands already provides a +3 spot item)

[KoobTheProud]

You can consider buying +5 skill tomes in the DDO store, if you really want to spend points on this project. There is an option to buy 6 +5 skill tomes at once for 3045 DDO points, then when you open the tome you get to choose the skills you want. Take spot, search, disable, then whatever.

Stat tomes can also be very valuable. Intelligence, wisdom and dexterity will help you the most.



I would never suggest that a casual player trying group hardcore for the first time should spend any money at all on tomes in that process.

Think about it.

[Fenrisulven7]

Hey OP, I will be curious to know how you did.

IF you die, will you do us a favor and add to this thread what did you in? I'm betting it won't be from a trap. Thanks.

[Saekee]

If you survive to play the Red Fen's (7th lvl quest chain) choose the Raven's Set (Goggles and Gloves). Combined, they will give you a +10 to spot and search starting at 7th lvl. Should last you another 5 levels.

Edit: it's assumed you already know this, but just in case... Wisdom is the stat your Spot skill is based on.
emphasis here--wisdom is the spot ability. So even chugging an owl potion will add +2 to your spot. Just to add to all the other great advice here, you also want to add any boosts you can to skills that are generic--heroism, for example, is a cheap potion and will give you +2. So between a wisdom potion and heroism, you are already at +4 (assuming you do not have a permanent wisdom item) and both can be bought in house Jorasco by the teleporter (Feather Fall Apothecary). Like other folks have stated, you can add lots of skill bonuses from Mechanic and racial trees and mechanic has a skill boost (as does Humans). Skill boosts do not last long though but sometimes you know roughly where a trap might spring; spotted, search and disable while skill timer is running.

Use the Troubleshooter's set out of Korthos for +3 spot/Search and upgrade later, buffing with potions until then.The Corsair's Bandana has +5 spot in 3BC but that probably is not needed.

You can get the Red Fens items by running the quests on casual at level 7 and that will give everyone in the party some nice gear sets unless they do not get the combo they want. Once you have the Fens set--easily acquired on casual with some grinding and patience--you can then keep an eye out for insightful spot and insightful search items which will not appear until much higher levels (I think 10+) so watch auction house or lootgens. Note that the Fens set also gives +3 artifact bonus to deadly and other goodies so on HC it is very good, also good on regular servers honestly except that the deadly slot is usually occupied by goggles or gloves unless you use the named belt at level 6 or whatever or use Slavers to craft deadly in various slots.

(If the Crystal Cove event were running now, I would recommend the level 4 spyglass but that will not help you.)

[Fenrisulven7]

Saekee just made me remember Favor Feats, you get

+2 Spot for reaching Tier 1 favor with The Gatekeepers

+2 Search for reaching Tier 1 favor with House D


Like he said upthread, every little bit adds up - a few pennies here, a few pennies there... and before ya know, you're ordering pizza :cool:

[Kutalp]

Hello. Before I start with the humble suggestions I would like to tell, if your team is a zerg team they would like to avoid searching traps, the npc conversations, the awesome lore, watching the virtual sceneray and more. Rogues are known as plunderers of vaults and valuables but infact rogue gameplay serves a much more sophisticated roleplay even at live gameplay.

If your team like zerg kill mass murdering gameplay thats mostly aoe burst casters and pure dps/burst focus ranged builds. Rogue gameplay requires the taste of roleplay and patience but can still apply dps mechanics with additional defenses if played well. Anyhow twists do exist.



You should pick Human as race. (+1 skill each level, +1 feat, healing amplficiation, if you wish +1 to all skills and +2 to two extra choice of skills, Dimension door and teleportation whenever youneed. Allways take at least two rogue levels earliest at (if) multiclass combination. Riskier ( 8 Strength requires any item support and tomes you bump in to at your adventures) everything in to intelligence and constitution. A bit easier 11-12 strength and rest in to intelligence and constitution.

I advice picking Repeating heavy crossbow feat, pointblankshot and rapid reload. You may pass both Precision and Rapidshot. They re overrated. (Rapidshot is better for non automatic ranged weapons and Precision only applies -%25 to npc's original fortification amount which is usually only %35s; which is equal to -%6 to enemy fortification and +%5 firing speed which is not worth it. Without serious investment on many other feats and items Precision doesnt apply fair enouugh bonus on constructs and undead aswell. Mechanic, Artificer and Divine casters have other enhancements and feats to bypass that if someone is obsses with critical on undead and constructc but it is not worth it.)

A random combination such as Human/Harper16/Mechanic/Stalward/Occult slayer/Assasin. Lower enhancements to support extra constinious damage, prr/mrr/some extra health, extra saves. Sounds alot like the noob build when it is but it also works for the twsists. Survival and semi bursts dps and fast moving/avoidance is the point here. (Not pure burst or dps but continiutiy and skillfullness)...Artificer has fusilade and Inquistive can do more dps but the focus at our build is not only pure dps. I also advice staying away from any enahcnement that uses auto spot, search mechanics those enhancements are known to ruin the dice rolls.

Harper Int to hit and damage and skill bonus (Much better than Mechanic whic requires more rogue levels and single skill bonus. Basically the tree is focused at Gxcbow. Repeaters are a bait at mechanic. They dont get real bonus. Weapon training is also a bait except the T5 which doesntmean much at higher levels. Alacrity and +W is good but doesnt matter much for anything other than Gxbows. Meanwhile we have the dilemma there; Gxbows work better with fusiliade which locks the player to mechanic, artificer, ranger and similar combos forever. Still missing the flexibility and resilience.

Extraordinary but working good even as first life an random loot: Repeating Heavy crossbow, Pointblankshot, Rapid reload, Insightful reflexes, Least dragonmark of passage, Resilience, Improved critical ranged, Skill focus Use magic device, Ironwill, Luck of heroes or Die Hard. (Die hard can be achieved from Frenzied berseker for 1 AP)

Bard, monk, paladin also have higher saves but they do not have what occult slayer or stalward has at details. Bard ,monk, paladin works much better as pure or with minor splash from other classes while remaining almost pure.

( I used to pick all ranged feats, dodge, mobility but most ranged feats are overrated at live experience and saves, skills, mobility matters alot even if heroic bonuses are tiny ) Since you have In to hit and damage and extra saves and extra hp from stalward stance, occult slayer, human and harper you can even go melee with keen two handers after taking npcs' hitpoint down for fun. Comboing ranged and melee is alot of fun and satisfaction.

(Rogue mech/acrobat combo fails hard because it goes both Dex and Int and has lower saves and HP. Requires lots of AP distracted acros two rogue trees, less skill points, healing amp and more details aswell)


Example for random drop items from loot or Auction house Fortfication+Spot helmet, Prudent+Spot goggles, Diamond of Intelligence at any colorless augment slot at your cloak or trinket or anywhere else. Alluring+Elemetal resistance or evasion or natural armor at cloak. Best speed boots you can wear. Might + deadly or might+use magic device gloves. Additionally any item you can fit at your set that has insightfull strength, constitution, saves, wisdom, intelligence. Additional augments for elemntal resistances attached to your items. Trinket Dusk heart is good and has augment slot for ability bonus. Ravenloft is perfect weapon and outfits with insightful bonuses. Sharn also has high quality items. Forgotten realms has several items for insightfull concealment and extra dodge cap.


My favorite: May take time to sort out but is not noob bait.



[ CONBO the Heavy machinegun Occult Zlaying Roguebarian ]


You can go 2 rogue/3 fighter/15 Barbarian (Fast enough,Has better saves,much better defenses and saves, lots of skills and routes to pick and swap at will) (After trying various combos through years this seems more survivable and much easier to twist to me. It includes Arblaster, Mechanic3,Awareness1, Wand and scrol mastery3. Can get Assasin venom blades. Occult slayer T5 (anything about melee is optional pick in general survival and weapon critical bonuses and spell/elemental resistances,Travel, and cores; heal amp,save bonus,elemental and magical resistances, Guard, Parry, Uncanny,Retribution-Destruction-Spell saves,). Stalward defense is the real deal about Fighter for prr/mrr/saves. Die hard from frenzied tree, combined with Human tree or you can swap a feat for Die hard.

Your inbuilt Barbarian ability Rage is not to fight now. Pass melee and Rage enhancements. Focus is Occult slayer survival and bonuses and combo mechanics with Stalward tree, Human, Harper and Mechanic; if you wish some from Assasin.

Pure rogue mechanic (Very brittle. Not good at saves, feats, hp, lower skills eventhough seems to have more points but actually worse than multiclass. Been there for T5 and lvl 18 core but not worth it at live compared to calculations on the paper) or with a single barb and fighter 18 rogue/1 barb/1fighter. (Fastest runner)...The real deal with this is Improved evasion but Barb version is still more survivable with said passive and active feats/stances and stalward stance+occult slayer passive and active combos.

8 rogue/6 fighter/6 barb (More barb levels and Occult slayer route is better. 6 fighter means less skill points, less hp , deep stalward pulls all valuble AP that would go to healing amp, extra skill bonuses from harper, human, ocuult slayer and mechanic)

Greatcrossbows that I used for a long time. Repeaters, are fine and sometimes much better than Gxbows although base damage is lower and may require carrying around a full slot of quivers for all times. But deals more damage as you try yourself. One inventory slot for bags, potions and wands and scrols the other only for thin quivers. Another one for thieves tools and items to swap and wear to boost thief skills, blindness, true seeing, elemental, disease, poison proff items whenever you need; planning further fr each zone and quest (you may need to dig wikis and blogs and the forum before hitting ahy zone or quests so you ll be more prepared.


Barbarian and Fighter and Saves, Heal amp and Hp bloat; Umd and skills combos makes this an In your face build compared to sneak attack and gxcbow/fusilade stock forever build. Certainly not the spoilt catered brat of a warlock or anyother aoe blast/aura caster type easy button build; just to note. Just add Spot and Insightfull spot and roll the saves with your resilient build even when you dont know where the trap is located at.



Enjoy ! :D


https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRgJ8rKwqw673c8Ls5e35CHqCVpRORcg 5dXyT3aDFK0DDVRXRFKWw&s


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2y6bH6E5Kg

:p

[Krimleingod]

I just wanted to take the time to thank everyone for their input, whether it was a huge post or a small one, I appreciate you taking the time to lend your insight into solving my challenge.

I've read what everyone has said and taken things from areas multiple people mentioned to create (what I think) is the closest build that will accomplish my specific goal in this case.

I'll let you guys know if it works out or not soon enough haha.



I do have one last question for anyone that might know the answer: In the harper skill tree, does strategic combat II make it so that int to attack applies to crossbows, or does missile weapons only include things like throwing stars and stuff like that?

Thanks for the advice everyone!

-Krim

[Dragavon]

I would never suggest that a casual player trying group hardcore for the first time should spend any money at all on tomes in that process.

Think about it.

OP stated he was open to spending points if needed. I replied to that.


I do have one last question for anyone that might know the answer: In the harper skill tree, does strategic combat II make it so that int to attack applies to crossbows, or does missile weapons only include things like throwing stars and stuff like that?

Thanks for the advice everyone!

-Krim

Harper works with everything.

[C-Dog]

First, remember that on HCL you can run quests at 4 levels over - this means that trapping is that much easier. If you 're not proud or in a hurry to level (and if you're doing "all" the quests, you'll have plenty of XP anyway), this is def the way to stay alive.


A 1st-life trapper can cover most stuff if they keep their gear at-level (or close). Go Drow for innate +2 Spot/Search (and a nice spectrum of Stat boosts, including +2 to Search and DD), or Human and select the Human Skill Focus (which is +3 Spot/Search, but costs AP). The +2 Int on the Drow makes Skill Points a wash either way, but the +2 Dex is better Locks (and Sneak/Hide), and the +2 Cha helps UMD by +1. Coin toss which is "better".

If you're going on to Epic, I suggest you consider a build with 18 Rog, 2 others. (If non-Epic, you could dip even deeper, maybe Fighter 3 for Stalwart Defense - ymmv.)

Of those others, I recommend one be Barbarian, and early (maybe Level 3-4 or so). That +10% run speed is literally a life-saver - there are many mobs that cannot catch a Barb+Rogue speed kiter running backwards. ! level of Barb will also give you access to Die Hard + Die Harder III, which is effectively +45 HP for 4 AP. Good deal. (You can also get a Sprint Boost (Rage-based) for another 3 AP - ymmv if that's worth it.) The Core 20 is meh, and if TR'ing asap you'd only enjoy it for a few quests.

The last is dealer's choice. Fighter is an obvious one for one more Feat, and at a key point where BAB allows grabbing an important Feat asap.

Another is Wiz early for a 1 AP Invis button, Shield and an early +10 Jump, which can be another lifesaver for kiters. Summon Mutt for a cheap and infinitely replaceable distraction, or Prot from Evil for bonus to the majority of magic ST's. Also ability to use all lowbie magic wands, which can be really handy. (If you want, you can also get your own pet Skeleton for 2 AP.)

Harper is really nice but not absolutely necessary.

(Edit - oh - Human can get Dimension Door as a racial enhancement - probably do that. Even if someone else in the party has it. Nice Panic Button if it's all going south.)

[marinersfan]

I doubt this will be an option, but if crystal cove gets activated during hcl, it'll be very worthwhile to farm a few of the search/spot trinkets. You could also make a hat with disable device and +int.

[Dragavon]

I doubt this will be an option, but if crystal cove gets activated during hcl, it'll be very worthwhile to farm a few of the search/spot trinkets. You could also make a hat with disable device and +int.

SSG has stated that the hardcore league server will never have events like CC.

[KoobTheProud]

OP stated he was open to spending points if needed. I replied to that.

Point taken, my apologies. :)

That said i would still never suggest anybody buy tomes for a clearly ephemeral build as they learn the instances. Maybe on the second go-round.

[marinersfan]

SSG has stated that the hardcore league server will never have events like CC.

My casual, premium account-ness is showing :D

[C-Dog]

I realized some things got stepped over, wanted to clean those up...


Two of my friends and I have started playing DDO...

And yet your join date is 2013? Curious... what happened? Or do you mean your friends only recently joined you, and so now the difference is that you're playing together?


Regardless, be sure you and your friends understand this fact - DDO is not D&D. Or, more accurately, not any edition you've played before.

One of the (VERY) common pitfalls when shifting from tabletop to this game is expecting Character Building to work the same - it does NOT. No amount of tabletop expertise will prepare you to be a DDO Character Designer. Think of DDO as "D&D Edition 6.e" - it's similar, but just not the same as any edition you've played before.

So, be prepared (as with any new edition) for some of your favorite builds to be "unworkable". Just the nature of a new edition, unfortunately - happens every time. If you try to force it, if you try to apply Tabletop builds to DDO, 95% will fail, some slowly, some miserably, almost all surely and, eventually, fatally.


The good news is that there will be some unexpected builds that give you the same enjoyment of those "tabletop" builds - same result, just a different path to get there. (And, btw, multi-classing can be a big part of that - just fyi.)

So, shake off your pen-n-paper expectations, preferences and prejudices, and embrace D&D 6.e - this is the same world, same game feel, just a diff set of rules to get you there.

(The biggest (but not only) diff is Enhancements. I could speak long and eloquently about the diffs of DDO, but let's just leave it at this - Enhancements are at least as (and perhaps more) important than Feat selection for a DDO character. Nuff said.

o http://ddowiki.com/page/Enhancements)

If you (and especially your friends!) are not experts at DDO character design, start here:


o Build Repository (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/470423-Build-Repository?p=5759353&viewfull=1#post5759353)
o Kent's Custom Character Builds (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/453843-Kent-s-custom-Character-Builds?p=5504615&viewfull=1#post5504615)
o Request a Build, Get a Build (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/117232-Request-a-Build-Get-a-Build?p=1287726&viewfull=1#post1287726)


So, accepting that those differences exist (even if you don't know exactly what they are yet), let's talk a couple specifics...


I'm the rogue of the party...
A DDO party doesn't need a "Rogue", but it does need a "Trapper".

In DDO, once you have 1 level of a Trapper Class (Rogue or Artificer), you can then buy full ranks of those trapping skills each level (at 2x cost for cross-class). This gives you the same total bonus as if you were a pure Rogue.

Classic examples are Rog 1/Ranger 18/X1 (aka the "Tempest Trapmonkey" or "Deepwoods Trapmonkey", depending if they are 2-weapon or ranged), or a Rog 1/Wizard 18/X1 (aka the "Pale Trapper"), both of which are strong builds and can trap 99% as well as a pure Rog. (Add a 2nd level of Rogue for enhancements that give that last 1%, the +6 skill boost.)


The bottom line is, I want to build a rogue that focuses 100% purely on spotting, searching and disabling traps.
You may want to, but your party doesn't want you to.

"Focusing 100%" would result in overkill, a character that can trap above his level - which is pointless for your goals. Meanwhile, this would be at the expense of DPS, and a party of 3 needs all the DPS they can scrape together.

So, respectfully, what you want is a Trapper who is more than capable (to account for gear that is not perfect*), and can still kick some ass. And that is easily achieved. :cool:

(I'll throw something together and post it, if only as a comparison to yours.)

[archest]

actions boost, greater heroism, True seeing most trees offer a skill boost option and maxing out the skill points as you level for it as well.

elf race
+2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks.
racial tree

Keen Senses: +1/+2/+3 Listen, Search, and Spot.

Nothing Is Hidden: Your senses are so acute that you no longer need to spend time searching for the obvious. You will automatically perform a Search check to locate traps and secret doors when you are in range to Spot them, although this Search check occurs at a -12/-8/-4 penalty. ( true Seeing)

[Krimleingod]

I realized some things got stepped over, wanted to clean those up...



And yet your join date is 2013? Curious... what happened? Or do you mean your friends only recently joined you, and so now the difference is that you're playing together?




I've played a bit here and there over the years, but I never ended up going beyond the marketplace. I know the harbor fairly well, but once I get to the marketplace things start to become a blur, and I certainly know next to nothing once I get into content beyond that point. This isn't even my first account, wayyyyy back in the day when one of my best friends and I were kids (before we had lots of $$), whenever it was the Summer time and school was done, we would play the DDO free trial (back when it was sub only), and we would literally play for 7-10 days (think they changed how long the trial was at some point) non-stop and see how far we could get before the trial ended ahaha.

But yeah, we never took it that seriously and haven't got that far or invested into the details of the game, so I'm an old player but a new player at the same time in a sense.

Thanks for the rest of the advice, lots of good information in there. Honestly I just want to make sure that I can spot traps so I don't end up dying face checking something lol, would be a lame way to go when I'm supposed to be disarming the traps for the party. If I can do that and still be viable in DPS, even better.

[C-Dog]

K, this is my stab at it, given the following parameters:

1) Extra emphasis on trapping skills, especially Spot.
2) Accept a small loss/delay in DPS to achieve #1
3) 1st life, 28 pts, new Server, no "rich uncles" or hand-me-down gear
I fully expect others to make insightful suggestions - there is no single "best" way to do this, except for each player's individual preferences and playstyle. :cool:

I took 2 points off starting Int and added that to Wisdom - +2 Spot (and +2 Will S.T.!) at the loss of +1 Search, DD, and (after Level 8) Base Damage. Enhancement skills make up the Search & DD, np.

Since you're doing "most quests", you should not have a problem getting 1,750 Total Favor before Level 15 for the +2 Dex tome. (Note - This is a dealbreaker! Do not level to 15 before you have that, or no IPS!)

"Most quests" should also keep you at Quest Level +2, where any old gear won't be felt. So don't hit the Harbor 2's until you're Level 4, etc.

I left Dimension Door out of the leveling guide on purpose - it's in the costs, just not listed as to "when" to take it. You are chasing several benchmarks (see below) and it's too personal to say which should be sacrificed, and when, to get that Quality of Life bonus ability. Add it in when you start to feel you need it (and/or the Healing Amp).

Similar with +1 Int - grab it when you need it to make an even value for your stat.

Skills: Obviously, those can be swapped around. I chose Haggle just because it's your 1st life and a new server - go with Listen, Swim, Tumble, half-ranks in Heal, whatever if you prefer.

Jump: Jump has a hard cap of 40 for effect - after all boosts and penalties, can't Jump any higher than "Total = 40". If you have a wizard or Ranger, they should(?) have Jump spell, which adds +10 at Level 1, +20 at caster level 5, and +30 at Caster Level 9. However, if you're sneaking, that is -20, so for those times you want a total of 60. I like Jump for ranged, it helps them jump out of nasty corners. +23 might be overkill, but there's no guarantee you'll have the Buff on you - and what else are you going to spend it on?


I initially wanted to add Wizard (instead of Fighter), but the loss of BAB delays IPS to Level 18, and the extra Feat is both handy and moves several other feats 3 levels earlier than normal. (I can rework it if you want - Invisibility, a pet Skeleton, Shield, Jump +10, and a sacrificial dog are all handy things to have early.)


Enhancement notes:

Kensai Damage Boost: +8 to Hit and Damage is a winner in low heroics. Nuff said. (We'll respec later, when we can do better than a flat "+8".)

Human X Boost: We start with +4 Skills boost, for trapping. We then move (temporarily) to Saves boost, for end-fights and etc - you'll be using the Rogue Boost for damage. Finally (if you want) move to Damage Boost for 2 diff boosts, probably more than you'll use between shrines.

(Rog Core 6) Targeting Sights at Character Level 8. This adds Int to damage*, which should be almost the same as the +8 we lose from Kensai to get it - but this is full time. You'll use Dex to-Hit, as well as for Ref ST etc., so don't shirk on that.


(* If you had Harper, you could get that as early as the end of Level 3. +5 damage (or so) is nice, but not a game breaker. KtA is also nice, but at only 1/2 Int on a 1st-life build, again, not huge. And it costs 9 AP, which delays other stuff. Nice, but not necessary.)

Rogue Tier V at Character Level 12. So much DPS there - make sure you have 30 AP in Mech by the end of 11.


(Note - Time Bomb is nice if you have other enhancements to boost it (you don't), but it's also semi-bugged - overall, for this build, we'll pass.)

Barbarian Die Harder creates a "safety net" of 45 extra HP before you die (so -60 with Guild buffs). That's good in low/mid heroics, but by end Heroics you'll be taking 100's of damage regularly, and 60 is less significant. Keep it if you want, or respec for something else (maybe Sprint boost sooner?)

Barbarian Athletics III includes a Sprint Boost when you use Rage. Handy trick to have in your back pocket.




Rogue Spotter Mech
18/1/1 Rogue/Barbarian/Fighter
True Neutral Human


Level Order

1. Rogue. . . . . .6. Rogue. . . . . 11. Rogue. . . . . 16. Rogue
2. Fighter . . . . 7. Rogue . . . . .12. Rogue . . . . .17. Rogue
3. Rogue. . . . . .8. Rogue. . . . . 13. Rogue. . . . . 18. Rogue
4. Rogue. . . . . .9. Rogue. . . . . 14. Rogue. . . . . 19. Rogue
5. Barbarian . . .10. Rogue . . . . .15. Rogue . . . . .20. Rogue


Stats
. . . . . . . .28pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . 10. . . . . . . . 4: INT
Dexterity . . . 16. . . .+2. . . .8: INT
Constitution. . 14. . . . . . . .12: DEX
Intelligence. . 14. . . . . . . .16: INT
Wisdom. . . . . 12. . . . . . . .20: INT
Charisma. . . . .8. . . . . . . .


Skills
. . . . . R. F .R .R .B. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R
. . . . . 1. 2 .3 .4 .5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Disable . 4. . .2 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Open Lo . 4. . . . 3. . . . 1. . .2 .3 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
Search. . 4. . .2 .1 . . 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Spot. . . 4. . .2 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Bluff . . 4. . .1 .2 . . 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Balance . 4. . . . 1. . .1 .3 .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
Jump. . . . .5. . . . 3 . . . . . . .1 .3 .3 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
Hide. . . 4. . .2 .1 . . 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Move Si . 4. . .2 .1 . . 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
UMD . . . 4. . . . . . . . .1 .4 .3 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
Haggle. . 4. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .3 .21
Swim. . . 3. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3
Tumble. . 1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .44. 5 11 11 .7 11 11 12 12 12 12 12 12 12 12 12 12 12 12 13


Feats

.1. . . . : Point Blank Shot
.1 Human. : Least Dragonmark: Passage
.2 Fighter: Rapid Reload
.3. . . . : Rapid Shot
.6. . . . : Precise Shot
.9. . . . : Precision
12. . . . : Improved Critical: Ranged
15. . . . : Improved Precise Shot
18. . . . : Skill Focus: Spot

12 Rogue. : Improved Evasion
15 Rogue. : Opportunist
18 Rogue. : Skill Mastery


Enhancements (82 of 80 AP) Errors

Mechanic (45 AP) Arbalester, Tanglefoot, Targeting Sights, Improved Detection, Expert Builder Sharpshooter, Mechanics III
Sharpshooter, Wand and Scroll Mastery III, Skill Boost III
Sharpshooter, Wracking Shot I, Use Magical Device III, Intelligence
Sharpshooter, Disable Construct I, Fletching III, Leg Shot, Intelligence
Sharpshooter, Rapid Fire III, Sniper, Mechanical Reloader
Assassin (12 AP) Knife in the Darkness, Dagger in the Back, Assassin's Trick Poison Strikes: Ice Chill, Sneak Attack Training, Stealthy III
Sneak Attack Training
Human (9 AP) Saves Boost Dragonmark Focus: Orien I, Skill Focus: Awareness III, Improved Recovery
Lesser Dragonmark: Dimension Door
Frenzied Berserker (7 AP) Die Hard Die Harder III, Athletics III
Kensei (6 AP) Kensei Focus: Crossbows Extra Action Boost I, Haste Boost III
Thief-Acrobat (3 AP) Staff Control Fast Movement
Leveling Guide Mec0 Arbalester; Hum0 Skills Boost; Hum1 Skill Focus: Awareness I, II
Ken0 Kensei Focus: Crossbows; Ken1 Attack Boost I, II, III
Mec1 Mechanics I, II, III
Mec1 Sharpshooter; Mec2 Skill Boost I, II, III
Mec2 Sharpshooter; Mec3 Wracking Shot I; FB0 Die Hard
Mec0 Tanglefoot; Mec3 Sharpshooter; Mec2 Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Mec2 Wand and Scroll Mastery II, III; Mec3 Intelligence
Reset Kensei Mechanic: Targeting Sights (none)
(none)
(none)
Fletching II, Leg Shot Thief-Acrobat: Staff Control Fast Movement Mec4 Fletching III; Mec4 Sharpshooter; FB1 Die Harder I
FB1 Die Harder II, III; Hum1 Skill Focus: Awareness III; Mec4 Disable Construct I
Mec3 Use Magical Device I
Mec5 Mechanical Reloader; Mec5 Sniper; Mec5 Rapid Fire I, II, III
Ass0 Knife in the Darkness; Ass1 Poison Strikes: Ice Chill; Ken0 Kensei Focus: Crossbows
Ken1 Haste Boost I, II, III; Ass1 Stealthy I
Ass1 Stealthy II, III; Ass0 Dagger in the Back
Ass1 Sneak Attack Training; Ass2 Sneak Attack Training; Ass0 Assassin's Trick
Mec3 Use Magical Device II, III; Mec0 Improved Detection
Mec5 Sharpshooter; FB1 Athletics I, II, III



IF you buy Harper, things will look something like this early on... cut the Barbarian stuff and some Assassin.


Enhancements (92 of 80 AP) Errors
l
Mechanic (45 AP) Arbalester, Tanglefoot, Targeting Sights, Improved Detection, Expert Builder Sharpshooter, Mechanics III
Sharpshooter, Wand and Scroll Mastery III, Skill Boost III
Sharpshooter, Wracking Shot I, Use Magical Device III, Intelligence
Sharpshooter, Disable Construct I, Fletching III, Leg Shot, Intelligence
Sharpshooter, Rapid Fire III, Sniper, Mechanical Reloader
Assassin (12 AP) Knife in the Darkness, Dagger in the Back, Assassin's Trick Poison Strikes: Ice Chill, Sneak Attack Training, Stealthy III
Sneak Attack Training
Harper Agent (12 AP) Agent of Good I, Intelligence Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
Know the Angles III
Strategic Combat
Human (9 AP) Saves Boost Dragonmark Focus: Orien I, Skill Focus: Awareness III, Improved Recovery
Lesser Dragonmark: Dimension Door
Frenzied Berserker (7 AP) Die Hard Die Harder III, Athletics III
Kensei (4 AP) Kensei Focus: Crossbows Attack Boost III
Thief-Acrobat (3 AP) Staff Control Fast Movement
Leveling Guide Mec0 Arbalester; Hum0 Skills Boost; Mec1 Sharpshooter
Ken0 Kensei Focus: Crossbows; Ken1 Attack Boost I, II, III
Mec1 Mechanics I, II, III
Reset All Trees Mechanic: Arbalester Harper Agent: Agent of Good I, Intelligence Traveler's Toughness II, Strategic Combat
Know the Angles III
Strategic Combat Human: Skills Boost Skill Focus: Awareness II Hum1 Skill Focus: Awareness III; Ken0 Kensei Focus: Crossbows; Ken1 Attack Boost I, II
Ken1 Attack Boost III; Mec1 Mechanics I, II, III
Mec1 Sharpshooter; Mec2 Skill Boost I, II
Reset Harper Agent Harper Agent: Agent of Good I Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
Know the Angles III Mechanic: Tanglefoot, Targeting Sights (none)
Skill Boost III
Reset Human Human: Saves Boost Skill Focus: Awareness III, Improved Recovery Thief-Acrobat: Staff Control Fast Movement Mechanic (none)
(none)
Wracking Shot I

[archest]

light armor reflex and dodge , speed for fighting retreat
jump, diversion, hit and run hide sneak attack. spot is for long range so ranged feats
dc boosts for tactical actions in the trees as well.

in addition your gonna want to max your UMD as well
scrolls
implosion
trap the soul
wards
heal
resurrection and rise dead
Teleport
Note chrisma is a ability score added to UMD .
Rouge have alot of skill points each level depending on intelligence bonus.

[Fenrisulven7]

I want to build a rogue that focuses 100% purely on spotting, searching and disabling traps.


You may want to, but your party doesn't want you to. "Focusing 100%" would result in overkill, a character that can trap above his level - which is pointless for your goals. Meanwhile, this would be at the expense of DPS, and a party of 3 needs all the DPS they can scrape together.

C-Dog is spot on about this, I had to learn it the hard way with my 1st Rogue - Trappers are expected the handle the traps AND provide something else, usually DPS.

So go with what the experts here say are good Spot/Search/Disable DCs, don't overkill it, and spend the leftover points towards increasing your DPS.

[Mindos]

You may pass both Precision and Rapidshot. They re overrated. (Rapidshot is better for non automatic ranged weapons and Precision only applies -%25 to npc's original fortification amount which is usually only %35s; which is equal to -%6 to enemy fortification

https://ddowiki.com/page/Precision
https://ddocompendium.com/w/Precision

So if I take Precision, which reduces the monsters fortification by 25 percent against my attacks, you are stating that the mobs current fortification TOTAL is reduced by 25 percent of that TOTAL? So if a mob had 4 fortification it would now have 3 fortification?

I thought it was a straight reduction from whatever total the mob had, so if mob had 25, it now has zero. If mob had 35, it now has 10.

[Kutalp]

https://ddowiki.com/page/Precision
https://ddocompendium.com/w/Precision

So if I take Precision, which reduces the monsters fortification by 25 percent against my attacks, you are stating that the mobs current fortification TOTAL is reduced by 25 percent of that TOTAL? So if a mob had 4 fortification it would now have 3 fortification?

I thought it was a straight reduction from whatever total the mob had, so if mob had 25, it now has zero. If mob had 35, it now has 10.






Only %25 of the Original fortification amount of the npc. If it is %100 fortification then it would be %25 of that. Critical threat, deadly and seeker (also insightful versions), force/sonic/light damage + Keen/vorpal/augment slot seems to be the better approach. Also more reliable (Unless someone is obsessed at that and goes Kensei/Frenzied Bers+Prec+Epic destinies+Item stack/Armor piercing boosts...Most of these are very short time active clickies)

There is several enhancements that drop the sneak immunity but not fort immuntiy of the npcs such as Rogue assasin, mech, artif active clickies that is applied only around 5 seconds at a time.

There was and still a reason why Imp crit requires 8, IPS 11 BAB and Precision requires only 13 dex and 1 BAB. (Meanwhile there Keen weapons with Vorpal ability and red augment slot that can come very basic levels). IPS was the only exception. There is also monk and throwing weapons feats now. Their scaling however is not the same.

Other than all these their is also Helpless mode but npcs also have inbuilt ability score improvements opposing the Player characters. Anything that cause helpless mode is allmost always viableonly on thrash mobs.


Additionally same bonuses do not scale well such as weapon firing (projectile) and reloading speed rapid reload, rapid shot does not give +%40 speed at all. (Same for raidshot + Quickdraw). Most probably Alacrity scales similar. Archers focus is ,mostly, reduntant at mobile live gameplay. (Unless the player uses obstacles and snipes for taking advantage) BAB still gives more bonus to hit to make shots faster aswell as the amount of PRR we get for wearing armors.


Prr/Mrr does scale the same way. ( Once again caster abilities are more powerfull unless the martial player character wears somehow stacking [insightfull, quality, enhancement, competence etc] concealment items over stacking dodge items )

Players may flame on but giving Non Pure martial classes equal BAB with Pure martial classes is an idea that should have never been thought. The idea turns pure martial classes reduntant. (Eldricht knight, Warsoul/Warpriest and the similar...are actually very powerfull if BAB applications work as intended)


Meanwhile aoe spell effects and spell auras are the most dominant ( Allmost all caster builds; Easy button) thing at DDO combat.


My humble dirty pieces of eight.