Disaster, an apology, and a few learned lessons

[Careall]

Today, I single-handedly wiped nearly an entire party in Repossession - there was one survivor. Yes, that room with all the traps.
First, the apology. I want anyone involved to know how bad I feel and that I am deeply sorry for my errors. I own them - it was no one's fault but mine.
Here's what happened from my perspective. Please note that I am not trying to place the blame elsewhere, yet there were some things that, well, could have gone differently.

Lesson 1: Communicate.
- I was trapping. My toon isn't a dedicated trapper, so my trapping skills weren't top-notch. Also, I was level 6 in a group ranging up to level 8. So, if there was a better trapper in the group, perhaps I should not have been trapping. I didn't communicate either, so while I could say everyone was at fault, I know this was on me.

Lesson 2: One trapper, or coordinate trappers.
- Someone else in the party was trapping too. I didn't see who, everything was going so quick. There are about 9 traps in that room, and all of them had been searched, but not by me. I figured one side was being covered by the other trapper while I was covering the side I was on. I was a bit tired - blurry-eyed actually. I was also on a caffein high, so I was just going too fast. I started taking the items. When I started on the other side, I could have sworn I saw the trap disabled. As you might have guessed, it wasn't. Again, no blame for anyone else but me - I was just going too fast when I should have slowed down.

Lesson 3: Stay a safe distance away from the toon taking the risk(s).
- There was absolutely no need for about 5 of 6 party members to die. The trapper should have been the only one in the room. I should have insisted on it. I don't mind risking my character, but I am not about risking other folks' toons.

Anyway, stay safe in HC. It's tough to lose a character after putting hard work into leveling up. While that challenge makes HC worth playing - the adrenaline rush is amazing - there's also no reason to die senselessly.

[DYWYPI]

It sounds like your group running the Level 4 quest: Repossession, lacked some basic PUG communication skills and general coordination, etc. :-/

A Search DC of 17, would be adequate to reveal the Control Panels on Elite. I'd suspect the Disable Device DC to be less than 27 and probably 25. So it likely only needed a 'modified roll' of 21 to be safe from: Kaboom!

There really only should have been one person in that room disabling the Traps and no other Characters present during that phase. Because those traps do a huge area of damage throughout the entire room; if accidentally triggered...

Although of course the "correct" piece of Artwork used to open the door "to progress" wouldn't be trapped in the first place anyway.

Therefore people not "Trapping" and just idling in that room, only really have themselves to blame for dying due to the trap damage - assuming the Rogue didn't just charge in and stupidly start randomly lifting items, etc. There wasn't any valid reason for them (none trappers) to be loitering near the trapped artwork.

Albeit the group should have communicated about who was in charge of examining the artwork (as STR, DEX, INT, or WIS Ability checks could also be made) for potential traps, etc. Furthermore the Trappers should have said whether the room had been successfully cleared, etc. That is regardless of whether or not of being on the VIP Event Server. It looks like several amateurish decisions were made.

I play DEX Assassins and don't fail traps albeit if there are other people dealing with traps within any PUG quest I'm in. Then when possible, I'll make a mental note of what the other trapper is actually doing regarding finding traps, etc.

Also you should have slowed down and relaxed, there was absolutely no need for speed. :-)

[Graskitch]

Today, I single-handedly wiped nearly an entire party in Repossession - there was one survivor. Yes, that room with all the traps.
First, the apology. I want anyone involved to know how bad I feel and that I am deeply sorry for my errors. I own them - it was no one's fault but mine.
Here's what happened from my perspective. Please note that I am not trying to place the blame elsewhere, yet there were some things that, well, could have gone differently.




sorry to hear this.

what was the reaction from the other party members after the wipe? did everyone just silently log off to reroll?

was there any kind of exchange? I am assuming that because you posted this, that everyone just left without a word? I do agree though that it was not necessarily your fault. yes, things could have been done more carefully, but in a room like repossession, I do think that there needs to be some communication and forethought for a single trapper to be doing the work so that there are no assumptions made.

[Careall]

sorry to hear this.

what was the reaction from the other party members after the wipe? did everyone just silently log off to reroll?

There was one (deserved) sarcastic "good trapping" type comment, but mostly silent logging.

As far as fault goes, it was mine. What I am saying is that, like being killed by a kobold shaman, it's the shaman's fault. However, there are precautions and actions we take to help make it not the shaman's fault (that is, not die). I want everyone in that group to know I am sorry enough to make a public apology and I want to help prevent such tragedy from happening again, both with what I can control and suggestions for others to avoid disaster too.

[donblas]

A Search DC of 17, would be adequate to reveal the Control Panels on Elite. I'd suspect the Disable Device DC to be less than 27 and probably 25. So it likely only needed a 'modified roll' of 21 to be safe from: Kaboom!

There really only should have been one person in that room disabling the Traps and no other Characters present during that phase. Because those traps do a huge area of damage throughout the entire room; if accidentally triggered...

Although of course the "correct" piece of Artwork used to open the door "to progress" wouldn't be trapped in the first place anyway.

Therefore people not "Trapping" and just idling in that room, only really have themselves to blame for dying due to the trap damage - assuming the Rogue didn't just charge in and stupidly start randomly lifting items, etc. There wasn't any valid reason for them (none trappers) to be loitering near the trapped artwork.



I think he mentioned that it wasn't a problem with trapping skills, but with taking the item before its trap was disabled.

If I remember correctly, those traps can actually kill people in the next room, so it's possible that people thought they were a safe distance away.

At least not too much progress was lost, and there's plenty of time to go in the event.

[C-Dog]

First, the apology. I want anyone involved to know how bad I feel and that I am deeply sorry for my errors. I own them - it was no one's fault but mine.
First, Respect for owning it - we're human, mistakes happen, and happen more often/easily with a group that's pushing to zerg.



There are about 9 traps in that room, and all of them had been searched, but not by me...
If the Searcher runs down the middle of the room and stops in the middle of a "box" formed by 4 traps, they can Search all 4 in one pass. This means 3 Searches - one for the first 4, one for the next 4, and one last for the 9th trap in the far right corner.

That part can indeed be fast, and there's no reason to do it any other way.


Lesson 1: Communicate.
- I was trapping. My toon isn't a dedicated trapper, so my trapping skills weren't top-notch.
K, this IS a huge mistake, on a couple levels. First, either you are a trapper or you are not - there is no justification to take "just a little" bomb disposal.

If you don't have the gear or are under-level for the challenge (the usual problems), state that loud and clear. The only exception is if you're the ONLY trapper and willing to risk the box explosion to clean up traps that can be bypassed by jumping/etc., for the +30% xp bonus. (And in HC, XP is not as important as a 0% chance of dying (which is why there were Level 8's in a L4 quest), so, again... :cool: )


so I was just going too fast. I started taking the items. When I started on the other side, I could have sworn I saw the trap disabled. As you might have guessed, it wasn't.
Yeah, missing a trap roll results in only the usual trap-box explosion, nothing wipey about that. But pulling an item... the entire room goes off. Painful. (And it can spill out ~a little~ into the next room, but not far. Anyone who wanted to be safe could have easily been so - that was reckless on their part, you don't rush a deal-breaker mechanic like that.)

Now, the ironic thing is that, in that quest, there is a mechanic to make an Ability roll (randomly one of Str, Dex, Int or Wis) to bypass the trap and safely pull the item if the box is not disabled. Ah well... :rolleyes:


But knowing how that room works, there was no reason to try to go fast in the first place. If there was pressure (spoken or not) to zerg and rush through that particular quest, then everyone was at fault - that's not one to get over-confident in.

(And hat's off to the one survivor if they were smart enough to NOT be in that room during the mess - ole!) :cool:

[slarden]

I did see the 4 quick trap death messages of 6-8s and it seems I guessed right about it being this trap. I saw the same thing last season.

First of all at level 8 nobody lost anything significant in terms of investment. It's fairly quick to get back to 8 - so don't sweat it too much.

Secondy, this was obviouly an innocent mistake - we've all made them.

I am not the fastest player to begin but I definitely slowed things down a little on HC and am not concerned about opinions from people that think I should go faster. Don't feel rushed by a person or the party - so many deaths are from people getting complacent, rushed by others or overconfident. It's better to be hassled by someone than be rushed to go faster than you want to on HC.

When people are playing reckless it's fine to let them dominate the kill count or fall behind - just remember the quest and whether being behind poses a risk. I was in Haywire foundry and two people were zerging ahead at the end with red alert while the rest of the party was clearing trash to get rid of red alert and stop being harried. One was a little faster than the other and the 2nd guy got killed by the fire trap at the end. I would never go through the blast door behind someone else unless it has re-opened after the trap.

It sounds like maybe you were feeling rushed - I would just watch for that and slow yourself down and play at a comfortable pace. Have fun re-rolling - hope to see you when you reach my level.

[Careall]

Now, the ironic thing is that, in that quest, there is a mechanic to make an Ability roll (randomly one of Str, Dex, Int or Wis) to bypass the trap and safely pull the item if the box is not disabled. Ah well... :rolleyes:

While not an EXPERT trapper, I purposely was GOOD - having a toon die just a few days earlier at L10. I certainly would have let a dedicated trapper do the work, but I got the feeling that others felt I was the best trapper in the group - mainly since they were letting me trap - mostly.
That said, I failed on a 4 and blew one trap on a 1. I called it out so no one would grab that item, and I would try to ability score it if needed. I mean, one trap in that room is still workable - either the door opens with any of the other items, or that item isn't trapped. Anyway, the problem was me thinking I saw an open trap box when obviously it wasn't. If I knew I was the only trapper, I would have known I hadn't disabled that box, so what I thought I saw would have been severely questioned before I grabbed the item.

The lesson learned is that was only the final mistake in a string of errors: Each faux-pax before hadn't been deadly, so I (we) ignored them.

[KoobTheProud]

Sounds like PUG hardcore happened.

I can't imagine grouping anything significant in HC in a PUG. It's either solo or people I know.

I guess you were right at the level limit where you still have to effectively PUG because it's not possible to know most sub-level 8 players until you have grouped with them a few times. It would be really nice if there was someway to know the account behind a character so you could get a feel for who you were playing with early on. Unfortunately that would probably open up a worse can-of-worms around griefing and trolling and general elite bullying.

I do agree with the notion that trapping should be all or nothing in HC, particularly on r1 for those looking to ride the reaper express to upper levels. Having a critical failure chance on a trap box that is a roadblock if not disarmed is not an appealing notion. Jumping traps works most of the time and kills the odd time that it does not work because of a lag hitch that causes a timing problem and HC is full of those right now. A safe trap is a disarmed trap, not any other kind.