which do you prefer? Melee Power or Debuffs?

[Nickodeamous]

Hi all, I have been debating on which would provide more raw power to the toon as well as the party. For example, would you trade a 5 piece Prowess set that has 10 sustained MP and 50 for ten seconds on AB for say a 4 piece shattered device set which has +4 Attack/Damage, 3% doublestrike, and debuffs a mob (sometimes) by 10 PRR and 10MRR. I have read that mosters can go negative for PRR, and this looks to be a 9.09% increase in damage taken (if you look at the PRR curve)

At any rate, I have been talking to somebody and this switch was suggested, and I kinda like it, but would like to get some other points of view.

Thanks!
Nico

[J-mann]

Hi all, I have been debating on which would provide more raw power to the toon as well as the party. For example, would you trade a 5 piece Prowess set that has 10 sustained MP and 50 for ten seconds on AB for say a 4 piece shattered device set which has +4 Attack/Damage, 3% doublestrike, and debuffs a mob (sometimes) by 10 PRR and 10MRR. I have read that mosters can go negative for PRR, and this looks to be a 9.09% increase in damage taken (if you look at the PRR curve)

At any rate, I have been talking to somebody and this switch was suggested, and I kinda like it, but would like to get some other points of view.

Thanks!
Nico

What's stopping you from having both? You get 11 slots. Anyways, if your group doesn't have a shattered device in its layout it is the better option.

[Nickodeamous]

What's stopping you from having both? You get 11 slots. Anyways, if your group doesn't have a shattered device in its layout it is the better option.

The rest of my slots are filled with raid filigree sets, so i am kinda stuck there.

[FuzzyDuck81]

well for the party, shattered device debuff is always handy, but it depends somewhat on your character too as eg. for a barbarian that chunk of extra melee power doesn't just boost your attack power but also your healing effects

[Kutalp]

Hi all, I have been debating on which would provide more raw power to the toon as well as the party. For example, would you trade a 5 piece Prowess set that has 10 sustained MP and 50 for ten seconds on AB for say a 4 piece shattered device set which has +4 Attack/Damage, 3% doublestrike, and debuffs a mob (sometimes) by 10 PRR and 10MRR. I have read that mosters can go negative for PRR, and this looks to be a 9.09% increase in damage taken (if you look at the PRR curve)

At any rate, I have been talking to somebody and this switch was suggested, and I kinda like it, but would like to get some other points of view.

Thanks!
Nico





If the party cares for team play then debuffs. Not sure if they get a stack when more then a single player applies those at the same npc.

If the party doesnt care for team play then anything that will keep you alive longer. (I humbly think that is not you are asking for)

[droid327]

Hi all, I have been debating on which would provide more raw power to the toon as well as the party. For example, would you trade a 5 piece Prowess set that has 10 sustained MP and 50 for ten seconds on AB for say a 4 piece shattered device set which has +4 Attack/Damage, 3% doublestrike, and debuffs a mob (sometimes) by 10 PRR and 10MRR. I have read that mosters can go negative for PRR, and this looks to be a 9.09% increase in damage taken (if you look at the PRR curve)

At any rate, I have been talking to somebody and this switch was suggested, and I kinda like it, but would like to get some other points of view.

Thanks!
Nico

You always want a multiplicative bonus over an additive one. Adding more MP if you already have a lot of MP isnt going to be a substantial increase. But reducing enemy PRR/MRR multiplies everything you do. Unless they have just a buttload of PRR/MRR and you have very little MP, you're going to get a lot more mileage out of the debuff. Plus, as you say, it benefits all the people in the party (unless they also have the same debuff, then of course its wasted :D)

[Nickodeamous]

You always want a multiplicative bonus over an additive one. Adding more MP if you already have a lot of MP isnt going to be a substantial increase. But reducing enemy PRR/MRR multiplies everything you do. Unless they have just a buttload of PRR/MRR and you have very little MP, you're going to get a lot more mileage out of the debuff. Plus, as you say, it benefits all the people in the party (unless they also have the same debuff, then of course its wasted :D)

This makes sense to me. I just don't know who is running that set and who is not. Plus I guess it would be hard to test this on a ship dummy. I guess I am just trying to just help the party move along faster, so that's kinda where I was looking at shattered device. BUt man, I would hate to waste 4 slots if most people use it anyway.

[Fivetigers33]

Has anyone figured out/guesstimated the melee proc rate for the Shattered Device PRR debuff?

[SpartanKiller13]

4 piece shattered device set which has +4 Attack/Damage, 3% doublestrike, and debuffs a mob (sometimes) by 10 PRR and 10MRR. I have read that monsters can go negative for PRR, and this looks to be a 9.09% increase in damage taken (if you look at the PRR curve)

Negative PRR/MRR stop following the curve and translate 1:1 into a % damage buff; so -30 PRR = all incoming physical damage is dealing 130% of base (otherwise negative PRR/MRR has an exponential gain on the curve, which gets OP too quickly).

Optimal case for MP, you can fit 29 MP in 4 slots (Sucker Punch/One against Many raid +3x 5 rare MP). If you have ~200 MP, that's ~9.7% DPS gain. -10 PRR would be a 7-10% DPS gain (depending on what other PRR debuffs are being thrown), and it's party-wide.

If you have more slots open, it's even narrower; 4 slots is ~20 MP (plus two random filigree), and now it's only a ~6.7% DPS gain at 200 MP (and if you have 250 MP it's only a 5.7% gain).

Assuming the Shattered Device proc rate is solid, it seems like a clear winner for long-term base damage (and competitive even when soloing). That said, if you have a lot of loaded-MP-scaling damage (like Sneak Attack) then MP gains an advantage, and if you have a lot of non-MP-scaling damage (Spellsword, Law Dice, etc) then Shattered Device pulls further ahead.

I don't know the proc rate though, and MP will help with initial hits which is strong for up-front burst damage (like Adrenaline or Eldritch Tempest) whereas Shattered Device only matters for continued hitting. Like if you're 3-shotting enemies, it's only (at best) 2/3 as effective as listed above. Whaling bosses it definitely looks to pull ahead though.

TL;DR: as far as my quick math can tell, Shattered Device looks really good as a DPS filigree, even when solo. It's not as good for burst builds.

[Draxis]

Shattered Device is better overall, but that being the case, a lot of people use it. And as others have stated, the MRR/PRR debuff does not stack. Since it's so popular (Non-rare filigrees go for ~150 AS on the ASAH), more than likely someone in your party, if not multiple people, are going to be using shattered device.

[DrawingGuy]

Shattered Device is best for TWF/unarmed and throwers. Fast attack rates that not only are better applying the debuff, but benefit more from the attack/damage and double strike/shot the set provides. If someone else is applying the debuff, then there are better options, but as you are not running in an organized static, might as well be you. Off chances of overlap loss is trivial to general gains.

If you are truly concerned about always being min maxed, have a weapon with and without to coordinate with the party to see if it is covered or not. Personally I plan on it being my main set... though still need to farm a proper set as I'm just coming back to the game. *cough*tradesometopinconthelanis*cough*

[MaeveTuohy]

Shattered Device is best for TWF/unarmed and throwers. Fast attack rates that not only are better applying the debuff, but benefit more from the attack/damage and double strike/shot the set provides. If someone else is applying the debuff, then there are better options, but as you are not running in an organized static, might as well be you. Off chances of overlap loss is trivial to general gains.

If you are truly concerned about always being min maxed, have a weapon with and with to coordinate with the party to see if it is covered or not. Personally I plan on it being my main set... though still need to farm a proper set as I'm just coming back to the game. *cough*tradesometopinconthelanis*cough*

Just mailed you a ranged power one, Pinc.

[0ldschool]

I wanted to add that I just put a 4 piece Shattered Device on my at cap VKF assassin last night. If you run the math, it is pretty convincing that Shattered Device is an extremely strong choice, depending of course on proc rate. This is especially true if mobs can go into negative PRR, which devs have confirmed does happen. There is a loss of 15 MP vs. 2 two-piece rare MP sets that give +20 MP total, but the other gains in the Shattered set help to offset that somewhat (not fully). If you need the 5% fort bypass, that helps really close the gap as well. I could comfortably argue that even a modest proc rate puts Shattered Device over the top for DPS, and almost without question on mobs that take more than a few hits. If I was in a static group and knew that another character has Shattered Device and lands hits at a high rate, then I could see going for the straight MP.

I really like the idea of my rogues applying party-wide debuffs to mobs, such as Assassin's Trick, so for me it's an easy and fun choice. I can't wait to try it out.

[SpartanKiller13]

I wanted to add that I just put a 4 piece Shattered Device on my at cap VKF assassin last night. If you run the math, it is pretty convincing that Shattered Device is an extremely strong choice, depending of course on proc rate. This is especially true if mobs can go into negative PRR, which devs have confirmed does happen. There is a loss of 15 MP vs. 2 two-piece rare MP sets that give +20 MP total, but the other gains in the Shattered set help to offset that somewhat (not fully). If you need the 5% fort bypass, that helps really close the gap as well. I could comfortably argue that even a modest proc rate puts Shattered Device over the top for DPS, and almost without question on mobs that take more than a few hits. If I was in a static group and knew that another character has Shattered Device and lands hits at a high rate, then I could see going for the straight MP.

I really like the idea of my rogues applying party-wide debuffs to mobs, such as Assassin's Trick, so for me it's an easy and fun choice. I can't wait to try it out.

Shattered Device is great until there's multiple of you with it :P

It's like LGS Dust/Ooze etc, or sources of Vulnerability. Any of them offer massive party-wide DPS buffs (via enemy debuffs) but each is less effective if you have a source already.

Probably worth picking up a stack of daggers for you, TWF is generally the best way to apply lots of procs and then you can tailor your loadout to what the party is missing :)

[0ldschool]

Shattered Device is great until there's multiple of you with it :P

It's like LGS Dust/Ooze etc, or sources of Vulnerability. Any of them offer massive party-wide DPS buffs (via enemy debuffs) but each is less effective if you have a source already.

Probably worth picking up a stack of daggers for you, TWF is generally the best way to apply lots of procs and then you can tailor your loadout to what the party is missing :)

If I was flush with sentient XP, I would love to do that, but I'm very light on it so I'm pretty much stuck with what I have. I'd probably make a duplicate minor artifact if I went that way, since it needs only 3k XP for 3 slots, vs. 6k XP on a jewel.

I tested Shattered Device last night and was very happy with the proc rate and increase in damage (Bruntsmash). It's basically 100% up time with my VKF. As a boss beater for soloers, its a no-brainer.

Do you know if the PRR debuff from Suffering and the one from the Shattered Device set stack? I am very interested in the answer to this.

[SpartanKiller13]

If I was flush with sentient XP, I would love to do that, but I'm very light on it so I'm pretty much stuck with what I have. I'd probably make a duplicate minor artifact if I went that way, since it needs only 3k XP for 3 slots, vs. 6k XP on a jewel.

I tested Shattered Device last night and was very happy with the proc rate and increase in damage (Bruntsmash). It's basically 100% up time with my VKF. As a boss beater for soloers, its a no-brainer.

Do you know if the PRR debuff from Suffering and the one from the Shattered Device set stack? I am very interested in the answer to this.

Stack of daggers being like LGS Dust, Pain, & Suffering - more options than just sentient swaps :P LGS Dust gives -35 PRR/MRR, which is a crazy party damage bonus.

Suffering & LGS Ooze both use the "Melted Armor" debuff of -10 for 10s (LGS is better for casters as it applies to spell hits, but for a melee they're equivalent). I don't have a Shattered Device set, but if it gives the same debuff it won't stack - examine the monster and see what debuffs are being applied.

Since the application and duration seem to be the same, I wouldn't at all be surprised if Shattered Device uses the same debuff. Probably is 100% proc rate too, if that's the case. Would be a bit disappointing though :/

If you have Shattered Device already on, would you mind testing (use SD alone and examine, then try SD+Suffering?); otherwise I'll respec and test later :)

[0ldschool]

If you have Shattered Device already on, would you mind testing (use SD alone and examine, then try SD+Suffering?); otherwise I'll respec and test later :)

Oh, I wouldn't mind at all, Khys, and would have done this myself, except for the little issue of me not owning Suffering, or Pain for that matter. :( My plan to acquire both has been thwarted so far by not being able to get either raid together for over a month now. HC has only made it worse. There have been a few false starts, but we just haven't had the server pops to make it happen (9 PM to midnight Pacific). Just a couple of nights ago we got up to 8 people over 15+ minutes before it fell apart, many going to bed (east coast/central folks). Sadly, I feel myself approaching the 'I give up' moment. What is really bothering me now is that I left Deception (the + SA damage kind) off of my gearset in anticipation of eventually filling it with Pain. So I've left a good chunk of sneak damage on the table (+81 damage to be exact with 190 MP, assuming that I had slotted Deception 14 on my slavers gear, but who's counting) :)

I did a few hours worth of Bruntsmash DPS testing with Shattered Device last night (dual Moonslices so that each hit was identical) so I can at least speak to that. It seemed to typically proc every 3-5 seconds on average. Typical VKF, base 15% melee alacrity, ~80% doublestrike, 100% offhand proc.

EDIT: I should clarify that I have 4 pieces of the set,so the proc I am referring to is the -10 PRR proc.

EDIT2: More testing, I'm getting a Shattered proc 1 per 27 hits, or roughly 3.6% proc rate. Sample size is about 200 hits total.

[Tilomere]

If you have Shattered Device already on, would you mind testing (use SD alone and examine, then try SD+Suffering?); otherwise I'll respec and test later :)

It all works.

[0ldschool]

It all works.

Thanks

[0ldschool]

LGS Dust gives -35 PRR/MRR, which is a crazy party damage bonus.

That is amazing.

[SpartanKiller13]

Oh, I wouldn't mind at all, Khys, and would have done this myself, except for the little issue of me not owning Suffering, or Pain for that matter. :( My plan to acquire both has been thwarted so far by not being able to get either raid together for over a month now. HC has only made it worse. There have been a few false starts, but we just haven't had the server pops to make it happen (9 PM to midnight Pacific). Just a couple of nights ago we got up to 8 people over 15+ minutes before it fell apart, many going to bed (east coast/central folks). Sadly, I feel myself approaching the 'I give up' moment. What is really bothering me now is that I left Deception (the + SA damage kind) off of my gearset in anticipation of eventually filling it with Pain. So I've left a good chunk of sneak damage on the table (+81 damage to be exact with 190 MP, assuming that I had slotted Deception 14 on my slavers gear, but who's counting) :)

I did a few hours worth of Bruntsmash DPS testing with Shattered Device last night (dual Moonslices so that each hit was identical) so I can at least speak to that. It seemed to typically proc every 3-5 seconds on average. Typical VKF, base 15% melee alacrity, ~80% doublestrike, 100% offhand proc.

EDIT: I should clarify that I have 4 pieces of the set,so the proc I am referring to is the -10 PRR proc.

EDIT2: More testing, I'm getting a Shattered proc 1 per 27 hits, or roughly 3.6% proc rate. Sample size is about 200 hits total.

Baba you can probably run with 8, but Strahd definitely can use the numbers. Sorry :( that's pretty annoying.

That's a good chunk of Deception to boot x.x What cloak are you running? Shadowhail (https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legendary_Shadowhail_Cloak) has 16 if that's an option?

Can you get LShroud runs either? It's quite a bit more popular these days, and might be one of your best options given debuffing available.

Thanks for the testing! That's a lot lower proc rate than I'd expect, but given 10s duration should be fine.


It all works.

Sweet! Thanks for the confirmation. I was just worried because the there's already different-named item effects that all apply the -10 Melted Armor debuff. But those are 100% proc rate XD



LGS DustThat is amazing.

Here's the Vault post I usually recommend (http://www.ddovault.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1549396557/0) (from before Shattered Device though). Be aware that it's the Vault, and generally gets toxic in a hurry.

Here's a previous of my forum posts (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/504606-Best-LGS-weapons-for-TWF-melee?p=6197863&viewfull=1#post6197863) discussing PRR/MRR debuffs stacked with Vulnerability, which is the general boss-killing formula these days. Stars align with full debuffs and you get some crazy numbers.

[HungarianRhapsody]

Have two weapons. One for general use and one for debuffs.

Even if the Debuff weapon only has like 4 slots and you pick up another 3 from a second copy of your minor artifact, that's still 7 slots of debuffing for relatively cheap. Ask in party chat if anyone else has a debuff set for the boss and if they don't, then you can use your debuff sentient weapon/minor artifact and an off-hand legendary greensteel debuffing weapon and then the rest of the party can use their standard weapons and the party still gets the debuffs on the boss.

Minimal investment and no duplication of effort because there was communication at the start of the raid.

[SpartanKiller13]

Have two weapons. One for general use and one for debuffs.

Even if the Debuff weapon only has like 4 slots and you pick up another 3 from a second copy of your minor artifact, that's still 7 slots of debuffing for relatively cheap. Ask in party chat if anyone else has a debuff set for the boss and if they don't, then you can use your debuff sentient weapon/minor artifact and an off-hand legendary greensteel debuffing weapon and then the rest of the party can use their standard weapons and the party still gets the debuffs on the boss.

Minimal investment and no duplication of effort because there was communication at the start of the raid.

I think in another month or two that'll be an option for me, but I've run a lot of WPM for sentient feed lol. Some of us are pretty slow to level sentients :P

Solid advice, and later when you 5-slot it you can use it as a Blood Feast swap option for any Barb 1+ lives, or Sanctified Fervor for Paladins etc.

[HastyPudding]

Hexblade: why not both?

[0ldschool]

Here's the Vault post I usually recommend (http://www.ddovault.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1549396557/0) (from before Shattered Device though). Be aware that it's the Vault, and generally gets toxic in a hurry.

Here's a previous of my forum posts (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/504606-Best-LGS-weapons-for-TWF-melee?p=6197863&viewfull=1#post6197863) discussing PRR/MRR debuffs stacked with Vulnerability, which is the general boss-killing formula these days. Stars align with full debuffs and you get some crazy numbers.

Thanks, this is really exciting stuff. I'm completely ignorant of Green Steel, I believe it's the one crafting system I have yet to try in my almost two years here. To be honest, DDOwiki and other 'how to' guides appear massively complex to me, and are frankly quite intimidating.

Since I'm now noticing a definite drop-off in server pop with HC active, and starting to figure out what I can do solo, maybe I'll take the LGS plunge. I would LOVE to have dagger with Dust on it for my VKF assassin.

[HungarianRhapsody]

Anybody know if debuffs work on Xyzzy (either Heroic or Legendary)?

I know we can't damage her, but if we can debuff her with attacks, then that's worth doing to boost the damage from puppies.

[SpartanKiller13]

Thanks, this is really exciting stuff. I'm completely ignorant of Green Steel, I believe it's the one crafting system I have yet to try in my almost two years here. To be honest, DDOwiki and other 'how to' guides appear massively complex to me, and are frankly quite intimidating.

Since I'm now noticing a definite drop-off in server pop with HC active, and starting to figure out what I can do solo, maybe I'll take the LGS plunge. I would LOVE to have dagger with Dust on it for my VKF assassin.

Use a LGS planner like this one, (https://ddocrafting.info/lgs/) it'll make your life far easier. I'd recommend making a +22/11 skill hat or two, they're super cheap (most people will pass small/medium ingredients freely, as you'll get far too many of them lol). Tier 3 is the expensive part, Dust will take you ~8 runs on LH (the common PUG difficulty) if you trade a Large or two.

As far the dagger: go to the planner; pick Dagger, then go to "Bonus Effect" and pick "Legendary Dust" - this'll lock the previous choices (it's something like Earth/Negative/Earth or N/E/N, but save yourself the hassle and let the planner figure it out). Then go to T1 Augment, pick something good (12d6 Acid IMO), then to T2 Augment (which has to be Negative since you took Earth first), and grab whatever (Quality MRR 9? Negative Absorb 30%? Negative Burst on-crits is bad b/c undead IMO), and finish it out with T3 (Acid Blast on Vorpal IMO).

Active Augment upgrades make clickies, and are entirely separate from the tiers. I'd recommend ignoring these for a while, they're hilariously expensive.

Afterwards, scroll down to see what you'll need; get that stuff first and then proceed. For T1, you need to make Earth, Dominion, and Material components out of small ingredients, and combine those three into your T1 weapon augment (all of this will happen at the first Altar in Legendary Shroud). Use the search feature, search for like "Earth" and make a "Legendary Inferior Focus of Earth", repeat with Dom/Mat, and then throw those three into the ingredients slot and pick "weapon augment" which'll be like Acid 12d6 on-hit.

Repeat a similar process at the 2nd and 3rd altar (searching for terms as appropriate, using medium ings for 2nd and larges for 3rd), and you'll end up with small E/D/M, medium N/O/M, and large "Tier 3 Weapon Augment (Earth Negative Material Dominion)" or E+N/M/D - T3 is special because you put in two focuses, Negative and Earth, to get the Dust effect :)

Then you're done in LShroud. Airship or Meridia altars can make a blank (out of runes & comms), and if you drag-and-drop that onto the green box middle-right of your Inventory screen it'll open a window where you can slot your 3 Weapon Augments. Once equipped, the Dust effect will show up :)

Note: you can do all crafting after finishing the raid; from the final altar, go through the closest portal clockwise and it'll take you back to the first zone containing the first altar. Follow the usual portals to the 2nd and 3rd altar.

[0ldschool]

Use a LGS planner like this one, (https://ddocrafting.info/lgs/) it'll make your life far easier. I'd recommend making a +22/11 skill hat or two, they're super cheap (most people will pass small/medium ingredients freely, as you'll get far too many of them lol). Tier 3 is the expensive part, Dust will take you ~8 runs on LH (the common PUG difficulty) if you trade a Large or two.

As far the dagger: go to the planner; pick Dagger, then go to "Bonus Effect" and pick "Legendary Dust" - this'll lock the previous choices (it's something like Earth/Negative/Earth or N/E/N, but save yourself the hassle and let the planner figure it out). Then go to T1 Augment, pick something good (12d6 Acid IMO), then to T2 Augment (which has to be Negative since you took Earth first), and grab whatever (Quality MRR 9? Negative Absorb 30%? Negative Burst on-crits is bad b/c undead IMO), and finish it out with T3 (Acid Blast on Vorpal IMO).

Active Augment upgrades make clickies, and are entirely separate from the tiers. I'd recommend ignoring these for a while, they're hilariously expensive.

Afterwards, scroll down to see what you'll need; get that stuff first and then proceed. For T1, you need to make Earth, Dominion, and Material components out of small ingredients, and combine those three into your T1 weapon augment (all of this will happen at the first Altar in Legendary Shroud). Use the search feature, search for like "Earth" and make a "Legendary Inferior Focus of Earth", repeat with Dom/Mat, and then throw those three into the ingredients slot and pick "weapon augment" which'll be like Acid 12d6 on-hit.

Repeat a similar process at the 2nd and 3rd altar (searching for terms as appropriate, using medium ings for 2nd and larges for 3rd), and you'll end up with small E/D/M, medium N/O/M, and large "Tier 3 Weapon Augment (Earth Negative Material Dominion)" or E+N/M/D - T3 is special because you put in two focuses, Negative and Earth, to get the Dust effect :)

Then you're done in LShroud. Airship or Meridia altars can make a blank (out of runes & comms), and if you drag-and-drop that onto the green box middle-right of your Inventory screen it'll open a window where you can slot your 3 Weapon Augments. Once equipped, the Dust effect will show up :)

Note: you can do all crafting after finishing the raid; from the final altar, go through the closest portal clockwise and it'll take you back to the first zone containing the first altar. Follow the usual portals to the 2nd and 3rd altar.

Thanks! I was playing around with that site earlier, it is definitely helpful. I came up with 12d6 acid, quality MRR +9, acid vorpal as a good combo for me. It then occurred to me that this is where Radiance lives. As a dedicated rogue player, a Radiance proc'ing weapon has always been a dream of mine. No save 11 second AoE blindness proc, yes please!! The fact that it would be a good aligned + good damage dagger is really great too. Well, I may have to make 2 daggers now :) And I'm trying my best not to think about Legendary Affirmation. So enticing. I think that your wall of text above kinda proves how intimidating LGS can be. Crafting augments and then wandering around inside a raid to craft your item, what sadist came up with that!?! ;)

Thanks for your help, I'll be sorting through my crafting bank tonight to see what ingredients I already have on hand. As you said, Tier 3 'Large' ingredients are going to be the choke point and take some work. The fact that they are firewalled behind a raid makes this perhaps a non-ideal endeavor during the relative loneliness of HC season.

[SpartanKiller13]

Thanks! I was playing around with that site earlier, it is definitely helpful. I came up with 12d6 acid, quality MRR +9, acid vorpal as a good combo for me. It then occurred to me that this is where Radiance lives. As a dedicated rogue player, a Radiance proc'ing weapon has always been a dream of mine. No save 11 second AoE blindness proc, yes please!! The fact that it would be a good aligned + good damage dagger is really great too. Well, I may have to make 2 daggers now :) And I'm trying my best not to think about Legendary Affirmation. So enticing. I think that your wall of text above kinda proves how intimidating LGS can be. Crafting augments and then wandering around inside a raid to craft your item, what sadist came up with that!?! ;)

Thanks for your help, I'll be sorting through my crafting bank tonight to see what ingredients I already have on hand. As you said, Tier 3 'Large' ingredients are going to be the choke point and take some work. The fact that they are firewalled behind a raid makes this perhaps a non-ideal endeavor during the relative loneliness of HC season.

Hah! Yeah, that's about where I ended lol. Slowly working my way through LGS stuff.

To think it's cleaner than HGS? At least IMO lol. But it allows you to have lots of different combinations of items generating a lot of cool results :) I will say it's pretty straight-forward once you figure it out a little, so I'd recommend starting with T1/T2 stuff (because Small/Mediums are basically free).

Wandering around the raid after is quite safe; generally the whole raid gets cleared one section at a time, so there's nothing left except for random spinning blades in a few parts that are pretty avoidable.

Yeah, LGS being stuck in a raid is pretty annoying. It'd be a lot more doable if it was more reasonable to shortman, but I wouldn't take less than 8 people into a LH run lol, unless you have a lot of leets. Lots of groups for it though, which helps. LShroud is like 2-250k XP on reruns (forget first time), so even when the crafting isn't currently a draw it's basically always worth running.

[Fivetigers33]

I did a few hours worth of Bruntsmash DPS testing with Shattered Device last night (dual Moonslices so that each hit was identical) so I can at least speak to that. It seemed to typically proc every 3-5 seconds on average.

EDIT2: More testing, I'm getting a Shattered proc 1 per 27 hits, or roughly 3.6% proc rate. Sample size is about 200 hits total.



Thank you!

[0ldschool]

Thank you!

No problem. I'd like to get that even more precise with more test data, because 3.6% is an odd value. Maybe I can converge on something more mathematically pleasing like 3.33%, a.k.a. 1 in 30. FWIW, my pierce damage increase (dual daggers) with SD proc was initially around 7.5% for non-crits, but the average is approaching 9% now with more data. I'm leaning towards the likely conclusion that EE Bruntsmash has 0 PRR.

EDIT: Update, overall average proc rate in my testing for SD is around 3.85% average now, 14 procs in 363 hits to be exact. a.k.a. 1 proc per 27 hits.

[0ldschool]

Oh, I wouldn't mind at all, Khys, and would have done this myself, except for the little issue of me not owning Suffering, or Pain for that matter. :( My plan to acquire both has been thwarted so far by not being able to get either raid together for over a month now. HC has only made it worse. There have been a few false starts, but we just haven't had the server pops to make it happen (9 PM to midnight Pacific). Just a couple of nights ago we got up to 8 people over 15+ minutes before it fell apart, many going to bed (east coast/central folks). Sadly, I feel myself approaching the 'I give up' moment. What is really bothering me now is that I left Deception (the + SA damage kind) off of my gearset in anticipation of eventually filling it with Pain. So I've left a good chunk of sneak damage on the table (+81 damage to be exact with 190 MP, assuming that I had slotted Deception 14 on my slavers gear, but who's counting) :)

I did a few hours worth of Bruntsmash DPS testing with Shattered Device last night (dual Moonslices so that each hit was identical) so I can at least speak to that. It seemed to typically proc every 3-5 seconds on average. Typical VKF, base 15% melee alacrity, ~80% doublestrike, 100% offhand proc.

EDIT: I should clarify that I have 4 pieces of the set,so the proc I am referring to is the -10 PRR proc.

EDIT2: More testing, I'm getting a Shattered proc 1 per 27 hits, or roughly 3.6% proc rate. Sample size is about 200 hits total.

Classic moment today. I found myself home early today and able to join in a Baba PUG! I rarely see any raid PUGs at my late playtime, and RL raids have been very light this year. I was the last one in. Somehow I was one-shot (maybe a few shot) right at the end, within 10 seconds of completion. I was screwing around asking for a rez while the chest was being looted. I did not notice that someone pulled Suffering and was offering it up for roll in chat. When I saw it, I rolled (good roll too), but it was too late as it had already been passed. No one to blame but myself. I did get in a number of assassinations on scarecrows so that was fun, and I had Shattered Device, Assassins Trick, and Poison Strikes debuff all going on the red names, so that was pretty rewarding too. Well, the dream (Pain and Suffering) lives on.

[SpartanKiller13]

Classic moment today. I found myself home early today and able to join in a Baba PUG! I rarely see any raid PUGs at my late playtime, and RL raids have been very light this year. I was the last one in. Somehow I was one-shot (maybe a few shot) right at the end, within 10 seconds of completion. I was screwing around asking for a rez while the chest was being looted. I did not notice that someone pulled Suffering and was offering it up for roll in chat. When I saw it, I rolled (good roll too), but it was too late as it had already been passed. No one to blame but myself. I did get in a number of assassinations on scarecrows so that was fun, and I had Shattered Device, Assassins Trick, and Poison Strikes debuff all going on the red names, so that was pretty rewarding too. Well, the dream (Pain and Suffering) lives on.

If they get to charge up their special attack, the big shambling mounds will hit everyone with a 30 second -70% max HP debuff, which makes it really easy to splatter. Otherwise, at 25% HP Baba starts increasing her damage output, but I don't think I've seen that matter (probably matters more in a low DPS party or Reaper).

Aww, sorry about missing it :( but glad you got a good run in! Party debuffs FTW :)