Best P45 Build for INQ DPS

[itraylor]

I am curious what the optimal build would be for a post update 45 Inquisitive. I was thinking a 12 Ranger, 4 Alchemist, 4 Artificer. This would net me free feats up to IPS, Evasion, INT to hit/dmg, rune arm, full trapping, 10% doubleshot from Agility Engine in BE, Sniper Shot from DS. I like the play style of Inquisitive and more importantly I have a fairly optimized gear set for endgame. I like evasion, being able to trap, and doing DPS from range as it is unforgiving to my horrible game play style ha-ha!

So yeah what class/race combination and level split would be optimal? I have all of the past lives and tomes so have like 95 AP all in all I think as well as +8 tomes. Thanks for any feedback!

[Tilomere]

I am curious what the optimal build would be for a post update 45 Inquisitive.

Dunno, maybe look at Volley?

18 rogue/2 arti w/ volley

Just flow wherever is nerfed the least?

31 AP Mech C5, 41 AP Inq T5 C6, 6 AP Harper, 3 AP fast movement,

Race HOrc/Dragonborn 3 extra action boosts

LD 3 extra action boosts

with gogles and ship buff will give 15 action boosts, or 5 mins of fusillade, damage, and haste boost each.

[itraylor]

Dunno, maybe look at Volley?

18 rogue/2 arti w/ volley

Just flow wherever is nerfed the least?

31 AP Mech C5, 41 AP Inq T5 C6, 6 AP Harper, 3 AP fast movement,

Race HOrc/Dragonborn 3 extra action boosts

LD 3 extra action boosts

with gogles and ship buff will give 15 action boosts, or 5 mins of fusillade, damage, and haste boost each.

What would be the point of going Inquisitive if you plan to use Volley? Almost everything worthwhile in the tree does not apply to great bows.

[droid327]

For pure DPS its probably still 18 Rogue/2 Arti. U45 changes to IPS favor add-on damage even more now and Sneak Attack is still probably the biggest source of that. And 41 Inqui 12 Harper 27 Mech still covers all your bases.

[Tilomere]

What would be the point of going Inquisitive if you plan to use Volley? Almost everything worthwhile in the tree does not apply to great bows.

So all crossbows have roughly the same capped bolts/sec with 0 doubleshot under NHB/Fusillade. However, dual crossbows and repeaters have 50% and 33% doubleshot scaling, while GXBow has 100%, so GXBow fires significantly more bolts end game under NHB.

At 100% DS end game, dual crossbows fire 1.5 shots for ever 2 shots a GXBow fires under NHB. So GXbow fires 1.33x as many bolts as dual crossbow.

GXBow with mechanic core 5 is 15-20x4 crit profile (~100% more damage with seeker), while dual crossbows with inquisitive are 16-20x3 (~55% more damage with seeker), so a GXBow has 200/155 = 1.29x as much damage due to crit as dual crossbows.

GXbow has 8.25(2d8+3)+~120 = 219 base damage, while dual crossbows have 8.25(1d8+3)+~120 = 181 base damage (assuming 5w weapon, .25w ship, 1w DoF twist, 1w combat brute, 1w combat archery), so GXbow has 219/181 = 1.2x base damage per bolt.

Volley has vulnerable (x1.2 all damage) which multiplies the physical hit, while falling star has Ash (x1.2 magic damage). so GXBow has 1.2/1 multiplier of physical hit due to vulnerable over dual crossbow.

Dual crossbows will proc law damage, GXBows will proc more sneak damage, and more everything else simply because they fire more bolts. Let's call procs in favor of dual crossbows.

When you multiply all these out, Volley in LD will deal 1.33 (# of bolts under NHB) * 1.29 (better crit of GXBow)* 1.2 (better base damage of GXBow) * 1.2 (vulnerable) = 2.5x as much as dual crossbows with base physical damage under NHB. Then just simply eliminate the non-NHB time due to LD, and your fine. You can always swap to dual crossbows when you run out. You basically want inquisitive for the ranged power, double shot, NHB, attack speed, and everything other than law damage and crit for your GXbow.

[east12cb]

12fvs6rog2pal!!!!!!!!!!!!!



I am curious what the optimal build would be for a post update 45 Inquisitive. I was thinking a 12 Ranger, 4 Alchemist, 4 Artificer. This would net me free feats up to IPS, Evasion, INT to hit/dmg, rune arm, full trapping, 10% doubleshot from Agility Engine in BE, Sniper Shot from DS. I like the play style of Inquisitive and more importantly I have a fairly optimized gear set for endgame. I like evasion, being able to trap, and doing DPS from range as it is unforgiving to my horrible game play style ha-ha!

So yeah what class/race combination and level split would be optimal? I have all of the past lives and tomes so have like 95 AP all in all I think as well as +8 tomes. Thanks for any feedback!

[MJtheKing]

So all crossbows have roughly the same capped rate of fire with 0 doubleshot under NHB/Fusillade. However, dual crossbows and repeaters have 50% and 33% doubleshot scaling, while GXBow has 100%, so GXBow fires significantly more bolts end game under NHB.

At 100% DS end game, dual crossbows fire 1.5 shots for ever 2 shots a GXBow fires under NHB. So GXbow fires 1.33x as many bolts as dual crossbow.

GXBow with mechanic core 5 is 15-20x4 crit profile (~100% more damage with seeker), while dual crossbows with inquisitive are 16-20x3 (~55% more damage with seeker), so a GXBow has 200/155 = 1.29x as much damage due to crit as dual crossbows.

GXbow has 8.25(2d8+3)+~120 = 219 base damage, while dual crossbows have 8.25(1d8+3)+~120 = 181 base damage (assuming 5w weapon, .25w ship, 1w DoF twist, 1w combat brute, 1w combat archery), so GXbow has 219/181 = 1.2x base damage per bolt.

Volley has vulnerable (x1.2 all damage) which multiplies the physical hit, while falling star has Ash (x1.2 magic damage). so GXBow has 1.2/1 multiplier of physical hit due to vulnerable over dual crossbow.

Dual crossbows will proc law damage, GXBows will proc more sneak damage, and more everything else simply because they fire more bolts. Let's call procs in favor of dual crossbows.

When you multiply all these out, Volley in LD will deal 1.33 (# of bolts under NHB) * 1.29 (better crit of GXBow)* 1.2 (better base damage of GXBow) * 1.2 (vulnerable) = 2.5x as much as dual crossbows with base physical damage under NHB. Then just simply eliminate the non-NHB time due to LD, and your fine. You can always swap to dual crossbows when you run out. You basically want inquisitive for the ranged power, double shot, NHB, attack speed, and everything other than law damage and crit for your GXbow.


Maybe I'm not understanding properly, but wouldn't dual crossbows still be firing more? At 0 doubleshot, I would have 2 crossbows firing 1 bolt each, so 2 bolts per attack versus 1 for a great crossbow. So scale that up to 100 Doubleshot that is 1.5 per light/heavy crossbow so 3 total with dual crossbows versus 2 for a great crossbow. So I would still be firing 50% more bolts with dual crossbows. Also the Inq tree has several enhancements that only apply to light/heavy non repeaters, such as +4/+6 attack/damage, 5% doubleshot and diplomatic immunity automatically applying improved observation for up to 25% fort bypass

[Tilomere]

So all crossbows have roughly the same capped bolts/sec with 0 doubleshot under NHB/Fusillade.

fixed to be more clear

The extra damage in inquisitor is small, and less than the extra damage GXBows get from mechanic, and the extra fort bypass is useless, because Sharn mobs have fort ~3xCR (180), which you aren't bypassing anyways.

[east12cb]

agree .At 100% DS end game, dual crossbows fire 3 shots for ever 2 shots a GXBow fires under NHB.

Maybe I'm not understanding properly, but wouldn't dual crossbows still be firing more? At 0 doubleshot, I would have 2 crossbows firing 1 bolt each, so 2 bolts per attack versus 1 for a great crossbow. So scale that up to 100 Doubleshot that is 1.5 per light/heavy crossbow so 3 total with dual crossbows versus 2 for a great crossbow. So I would still be firing 50% more bolts with dual crossbows. Also the Inq tree has several enhancements that only apply to light/heavy non repeaters, such as +4/+6 attack/damage, 5% doubleshot and diplomatic immunity automatically applying improved observation for up to 25% fort bypass

[Tilomere]

agree .At 100% DS end game, dual crossbows fire 3 shots for ever 2 shots a GXBow fires under NHB.

Maybe go find someone to test this for you and let us know how it turns out!

[Zarkarion]

I am curious what the optimal build would be for a post update 45 Inquisitive. I was thinking a 12 Ranger, 4 Alchemist, 4 Artificer. This would net me free feats up to IPS, Evasion, INT to hit/dmg, rune arm, full trapping, 10% doubleshot from Agility Engine in BE, Sniper Shot from DS. I like the play style of Inquisitive and more importantly I have a fairly optimized gear set for endgame. I like evasion, being able to trap, and doing DPS from range as it is unforgiving to my horrible game play style ha-ha!

So yeah what class/race combination and level split would be optimal? I have all of the past lives and tomes so have like 95 AP all in all I think as well as +8 tomes. Thanks for any feedback!

18 Alchemist, 2 Artificer.

(41 Inquisitive, 31 Vile Chemist + 8 whatever you fancy)

This would net you: 6 d10 poison damage per hit, scaling with spellpower, INT to hit/damage, rune arm, Evasion (alchemy feat), Int to Reflex saves (free alchemy feat), Int to Will saves (alchemy feat), Int to Fort saves (alchemy feat), full trapping.

I am currently at level 13 with this, and getting twice as much poison damage per shot as law damage, and I feel powerful. The build definitely does more ranged DPS than a pre-nerf Inquisitive (other than EK), plus has good self-healing, great crowd control from Glue bombs, and great AOE damage from Multivials. You can get IPS at level 18, and with 50% of your ranged damage coming from poison and law dice, which (unless I am mistaken) are not affected by the IPS nerf, the 20% ranged damage nerf will effectively only reduce your overall single target ranged damage by 10%.

This is my second Alchemist life. The first was Alchemist 18, Artificer 1, Fighter 1, with Bombardier 36, Vile Chemist 31, Apothecary 13 using throwing daggers to deliver the poison. The Bombardier damage was super, but the throwing daggers didn't give that machine-gun feeling that comes with a good Inquisitive build.

[droid327]

18 Alchemist, 2 Artificer.

(41 Inquisitive, 31 Vile Chemist + 8 whatever you fancy)

This would net you: 6 d10 poison damage per hit, scaling with spellpower, INT to hit/damage, rune arm, Evasion (alchemy feat), Int to Reflex saves (free alchemy feat), Int to Will saves (alchemy feat), Int to Fort saves (alchemy feat), full trapping.

I am currently at level 13 with this, and getting twice as much poison damage per shot as law damage, and I feel powerful. The build definitely does more ranged DPS than a pre-nerf Inquisitive (other than EK), plus has good self-healing, great crowd control from Glue bombs, and great AOE damage from Multivials. You can get IPS at level 18, and with 50% of your ranged damage coming from poison and law dice, which (unless I am mistaken) are not affected by the IPS nerf, the 20% ranged damage nerf will effectively only reduce your overall single target ranged damage by 10%.



This is definitely a viable build, and useful for its broad set of utility skills. I'm not sure if its the absolute top DPS, though, because its dependent on your Negative Spellpower, and that's harder to itemize for while optimizing your ranged damage and positive heals. Negative is underrepresented in items outside of mainhands and offhands, particularly for secondary and tertiary channels, and tends to conflict with other must-have Inqui pieces.

It does make good use out of Silverthread, though, I'll give it that :)

Also the "other 8" AP is Harper for KTA, best option by a landslide.

[Tilomere]

18 Alchemist, 2 Artificer.

I am currently at level 13 with this

Can you test under NHB how many bolts each of the types of crossbows fire and tell us your DS% with each? Maybe even test at 0% DS instead?

[Zarkarion]

Can you test under NHB how many bolts each of the types of crossbows fire and tell us your DS% with each? Maybe even test at 0% DS instead?

NHB does not work with Repeating or Great crossbows. (Unless it is bugged, which isn't reported on DDO Wiki)

[Zarkarion]

This is definitely a viable build, and useful for its broad set of utility skills. I'm not sure if its the absolute top DPS, though, because its dependent on your Negative Spellpower, and that's harder to itemize for while optimizing your ranged damage and positive heals. Negative is underrepresented in items outside of mainhands and offhands, particularly for secondary and tertiary channels, and tends to conflict with other must-have Inqui pieces.

It does make good use out of Silverthread, though, I'll give it that :)

Currently at level 13 I am wearing Vulkoorim pendant (don't be Good) and Insightful Nullification on Cannith Crafted Trinket. Poison Spellpower 269 in Pyrite (not spike), which admittedly isn't that great.
At level 17 I will switch to Necromancer's bracer, and at level 21 also Poisonclasp. Also I have not yet put AP into the Vile Chemist Poison spellower enhancements.

It would help if the Universal Spellpower from Adherent of the Mist and Beacon of Magic sets added to poison spellower, but it doesn't seem to do so, which is presumably a bug.

Positive spellpower to be honest doesn't seem to be much of an issue as the mobs don't get much of a chance to hit me.

I would expect an EK/Inquisitive wizard to eventually out DPS this build, but it is a lot slower getting going.


Also the "other 8" AP is Harper for KTA, best option by a landslide.

Good point.

[Tilomere]

NHB does not work with Repeating or Great crossbows.

It clearly says it does?

https://i.postimg.cc/bJq4hQnK/Screen-Shot-2020-03-17-151448-0.jpg (https://postimg.cc/xkF6GNtR)

[Zarkarion]

It clearly says it does?

I was going on the description in the DDO wiki which says:


No Holds Barred: Action Boost: You may activate this ability to enchant your Light or Heavy (non-repeating) crossbow to instantly reload itself for 18 seconds. This shares charges and a cooldown with Endless Fusilade. If you also have Endless Fusilade, you gain +10 Ranged Power while No Holds Barred is active. Passive: +5 Ranged Power, +10% Doubleshot. Cooldown: 30 seconds

However, a quick test with a Repeater shows that NHB does in fact work for that, increasing the number of bolts fired in 10 seconds from 28 to 55. (Doubleshot 23%, Ranged Attack Speed bonus 7%)

Interestingly, without NHB, the Dual Crossbows also shot 28 bolts in 10 seconds, and with NHB 48 in 10 seconds. (Doubleshot 21%, Range Attack Speed bonus 37%)

The figures for Great Crossbow were 12 without NHB and 35 with NHB. (Doubleshot 21%, Ranged Attack Speed bonus 7%)

(Rapid Reload for all tests).

These are only rough figures, as the timing may not be perfect, but it looks like the +30% alacrity from t5 Inq Jaded and the smaller nerf to Doubleshot is largely cancelling out the benefit of the Repeater when NHB is inactive.

NHB had the most effect for Great XBow, and the least effect for Dual crossbow.

[Tilomere]

Interestingly, without NHB, the Dual Crossbows also shot 28 bolts in 10 seconds, and with NHB 48 in 10 seconds. (Doubleshot 21%, Range Attack Speed bonus 37%)

The figures for Great Crossbow were 12 without NHB and 35 with NHB. (Doubleshot 21%, Ranged Attack Speed bonus 7%)

Hmm, unless you didn't have it for great crossbow test, it appears they broke Inquisitor's Path in the balance patch, which is supposed to give 30% attack speed to great crossbows as well.

[Zarkarion]

Hmm, unless you didn't have it for great crossbow test, it appears they broke Inquisitor's Path in the balance patch, which is supposed to give 30% attack speed to great crossbows as well.

I did have it, and it didn't apply to Great XBow. I have double-checked this. Are you sure it actually did before the patch?

Also my ranged power is reported as the same (23) with Dual Xbow, Repeater and Great Xbow, so that aspect of Inquisitor's Path isn't working correctly either, one way or the other.

Personally I think both T5 Inquisitor enhancements (NHB and Inquisitor's Path) are broken and/or described incorrectly in the tooltips. It really makes no logical sense for T5 enhancements in a dual crossbow tree to also apply to Repeaters and/or Great XBow.

Maybe they have half fixed that. Even if not, I would expect it to be fixed eventually, (like using Arcane Archer imbues with crossbows), though how long before that happens, if ever, is anybody's guess.

It seems unlikely that they will "fix" it so that the +30% Alacrity applies to Great Xbow (as the tooltip suggests). If they don't, does that put the kybosh on the Volley build?

[Tilomere]

I did have it, and it didn't apply to Great XBow. I have double-checked this. Are you sure it actually did before the patch?

It seems unlikely that they will "fix" it so that the +30% Alacrity applies to Great Xbow (as the tooltip suggests). If they don't, does that put the kybosh on the Volley build?

I ran that build on live before and it worked. Owell. Ya GG Volley. GXBow used to fire the fastest before doubleshot:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/504721-Request-for-Numbers-Inquisitive-attack-speed-and-NHB?p=6202431&viewfull=1#post6202431

After this balance patch nerfing dual xbows half a dozen ways, rogue mechanic GXBow should have clearly come out on top, but apparently they bugged or ninja nerfed GXbows as well. I bet mechanic 30% alacrity is borked as well.

Verification of ninja nerf or bug:

Inquisitor's path 30% non-repeating alacrity works with crossbows:
https://i.postimg.cc/tJfHntLq/Screen-Shot-2020-03-21-112440-0.jpg (https://postimg.cc/gLv7fRzQ)

but no longer works with great crossbows:
https://i.postimg.cc/Jn6fS57N/Screen-Shot-2020-03-21-112434-0.jpg (https://postimg.cc/qhKD3n3q)

[itraylor]

18 Alchemist, 2 Artificer.

(41 Inquisitive, 31 Vile Chemist + 8 whatever you fancy)



I ran this exactly for my (3) Alchemist lives, and while it was nice since it coincided with the Inq Nerf overall it didn't feel as powerful. I really enjoyed the utility of the class. To be fair I didn't have optimized gear to take advantage of the poison damage (I just ran my standard Inq gear I had been running). I have moved on to PM and working to gear a Paladin at the moment. Looking at some of the tests you and Tilo have been running it seems like a good move until they fix some things. Thanks for the comment!