Epic Catacombs - massive disappointment

[Deadlock]

I've always really liked the storyline to this one. The heroic XP was never uber awesome but it's a lowbie chain and that's fine.

First time seeing the revamp tonight, just played it on Epic and I'm massively disappointed.

The XP is complete garbage especially The Crypt of Gerard Dryden - I really think doubling it wouldn't be sufficient.

The final Endgame: The Archbishop's Fate being converted to an open arena with minimal cover (and no cover against demon aoe) against all ranged mobs is a design fail. And for 2k XP ... it has to be a joke that I don't get.

And no point saying that it's just a lowbie free chain so shut whining, because this isn't free to play.

The storyline change is some revisionist nonsense compared to the original.

Nah, sorry I just don't see the point of this. The XP is so poor that there's no way you would run this on Epic a second time. You don't need Silver Flame favor for anything worthwhile.

So if there is absolutely no reason to run this on Epic then what was the point of making it Epic?

What am I missing here?

[droid327]

Yeah the xp is simply not commensurate with the level, absent extremely good gear or some other incentive to run it

Keep is double the xp/min and is comparable or better in just about every metric.

[Mofus]

I enjoyed the quests, didn't really look at the xp as my toon was capped, what I didn't care for was that they changed the loot to quest chests rather than chain reward. You now have to run the chain several times over and hope that the item you want is in the chest. It's the same for Deleras now as well. It's too bad these quests are taking a back seat to some of the others that have recently come out.

[MaeveTuohy]

I started a similar thread.

Every quest needs at least one of three reasons to run it. Good loot, good xp or good design. This has none of these. What is good about the chain is good in heroics.

Double the xp and I still would only run the first couple.

Marguerite has the worst xp for the effort, and this is true for the heroic version as well, which I skip in heroics for thst very reason.

[Drunkendex]

Personally, only change in Catacombs I like is story.

XP is ridicolous, loot farming is not exactly well thought of (since to run one quest again you must run entire chain) and as insult to injury no named in chain reward list >:(

And yes, last quest in chain is in "what in Khyber?" category, did not run in yet in heroic, but Epic is quite a spike in difficulty compared to rest of chain.

[Frezar14]

Personally, only change in Catacombs I like is story.

XP is ridicolous, loot farming is not exactly well thought of (since to run one quest again you must run entire chain) and as insult to injury no named in chain reward list >:(

And yes, last quest in chain is in "what in Khyber?" category, did not run in yet in heroic, but Epic is quite a spike in difficulty compared to rest of chain.

Couldn’t agree more. XP is really sad, I mean really sad. Chain reward list non existent. Last quest I killed 9 things so no reason to even try on reaper. I won’t be running this again in epic.

[Selvera]

I started a similar thread.

Every quest needs at least one of three reasons to run it. Good loot, good xp or good design. This has none of these. What is good about the chain is good in heroics.

Double the xp and I still would only run the first couple.

Marguerite has the worst xp for the effort, and this is true for the heroic version as well, which I skip in heroics for thst very reason.

Yep this.

It could have "good loot" even if it just dropped tokens like it should, since it's in storm reach, and like everyone wants.

It could have good xp with a simple buff to quest xp numbers.

As for design, these are the same quests (mostly) that we've already played numerous times at level 3 without any real revisions except making some parts slightly more annoying. (Such as gating off the library until you've gone and got yourself a drink or whatever you do while not listening to pointless npc dialogue for the 4th or 18th time). - And those changes that were made were made in both heroic and epic, so it's not like we'd play them in epic for a different take on the same quests (like one may play 3bc for).

So what was the point of making it epic? Was it so that people who sit at cap have something else to do that doesn't reward them with (nearly as much) reaper or sentient xp? Or was it so that people who got bored of quick and easy xp running dailies can feel like they're leveling slowly without getting the tokens they need while leveling from 20 to 30? Maybe it's a reaper xp farm for those select few strong enough to run reapers reliably and quickly in low epic levels?

My hot take - Add tokens of the 12 to the quests, or at least fragments. Add them to Delaras as well.


Couldn’t agree more. XP is really sad, I mean really sad. Chain reward list non existent. Last quest I killed 9 things so no reason to even try on reaper. I won’t be running this again in epic.

I did it on heroic today, it's more annoying then it used to be but the same principle still holds true. There are 10 enemies in the quest and killing the boss ends the quest, so kill the boss absolutely last at all costs or you don't get your reaper xp.
Before you could simply do this by not attacking the boss and focusing the adds; now it appears you need to take him within 1 hit of dying to spawn all the adds then consciously avoid him while killing them first, making the whole process more painful.

[Oxarhamar]

Yep this.

It could have "good loot" even if it just dropped tokens like it should, since it's in storm reach, and like everyone wants.

It could have good xp with a simple buff to quest xp numbers.

As for design, these are the same quests (mostly) that we've already played numerous times at level 3 without any real revisions except making some parts slightly more annoying. (Such as gating off the library until you've gone and got yourself a drink or whatever you do while not listening to pointless npc dialogue for the 4th or 18th time). - And those changes that were made were made in both heroic and epic, so it's not like we'd play them in epic for a different take on the same quests (like one may play 3bc for).

So what was the point of making it epic? Was it so that people who sit at cap have something else to do that doesn't reward them with (nearly as much) reaper or sentient xp? Or was it so that people who got bored of quick and easy xp running dailies can feel like they're leveling slowly without getting the tokens they need while leveling from 20 to 30? Maybe it's a reaper xp farm for those select few strong enough to run reapers reliably and quickly in low epic levels?

My hot take - Add tokens of the 12 to the quests, or at least fragments. Add them to Delaras as well.



I did it on heroic today, it's more annoying then it used to be but the same principle still holds true. There are 10 enemies in the quest and killing the boss ends the quest, so kill the boss absolutely last at all costs or you don't get your reaper xp.
Before you could simply do this by not attacking the boss and focusing the adds; now it appears you need to take him within 1 hit of dying to spawn all the adds then consciously avoid him while killing them first, making the whole process more painful.

Yep mobs spawn at some health percentage so you dont want to do too much damage I killed him in 2 hits so that was no reaper XP for me on heroic R3 solo


I didn't like that they changed some of little changes I felt lost in quests that I've know for years.

[capsela]

The XP is a disgrace.

Shame on you devs. This really beyond the pale.

[thedip]

<Sorry for the semi-hijack but many of the points also apply to the heroic version>

I have always had a soft spot for the Catacombs (other than the Crypt of GD which is just a boring slog) and I thing the new version of the quests are better than the old. The addition of extra boss and mini-boss monsters is a nice touch.

This does not mean that I am happy with all aspects of the changes:

The XP (especially the Crypt of GD) is just silly and should be increased.

It used to be a good quest chain for getting a reasonable low level undead killing weapon as these were, more or less, guaranteed as a end reward - there are a lot of undead in low level quests. The named items are now in the end chests and so it is pot luck whether you get anything or anything useful. This hits new players far more than people on the TR train who have low level gear stashed in their bank and if you are a new player who has not run through Borderlands it is going to be even more difficult (Ghost-touch and Silver weapons).

There is also something out of whack with end rewards, 'I ran To Find a Witness' on R1 (lvl 5 quest) and at the end I was offered the choice of items between 1 & 3 - this is out of kilter most quests of this level.

Finally, where has the wand of minor healing gone, I have not seen any sign of it in the U45 loot lists? I always found this little item invaluable when running a quest solo using non healing toon, it was great at healing hirelings and was amazingly effective even up to epics - my Owlbear and I survived many dungeons because of this wand.

[kmoustakas]

Personally I really loved the story line changes to the point of starting a PnP adventure based on this.

The xp is indeed really low bad then again a number of the quests can be done in under two minutes. The crypt itself is an energy burst party. I don't think it takes more than 5 minutes on a zerg sorcerer or warlock - heck even a turn undead - to go through it on epic.

[thedip]

The xp is indeed really low bad then again a number of the quests can be done in under two minutes. The crypt itself is an energy burst party. I don't think it takes more than 5 minutes on a zerg sorcerer or warlock - heck even a turn undead - to go through it on epic.

< Please note that this is a semi humorous reply>

Try and do that in heroic or with a melee in epic - it is just a long and boring slog. Maybe we should have different levels of XP for sorcs and 'locks than others as they can complete these quests so quickly - 5% of base and everyone else gets 200%?

[kmoustakas]

< Please note that this is a semi humorous reply>

Try and do that in heroic or with a melee in epic - it is just a long and boring slog. Maybe we should have different levels of XP for sorcs and 'locks than others as they can complete these quests so quickly - 5% of base and everyone else gets 200%?

The xp is not bad in heroic though.

In epic, anyone with cleave/greatcleave/momentous or whatever aoe the class gives you/strikethrough and a maul should go through the crypt like cake? Not in five minutes but possibly in 7-8?

Edit: Because not all classes are good in the same things and when you choose a class you should take that into account. I know for example that my artificer simply sucks against zombies because I don't have energy burst but he is awesome against humanoids that can be stunned/paralysed/sleep/level drained etc

[SirValentine]

The storyline change is some revisionist nonsense compared to the original.


I like the physical layout changes, and I don't pay much attention to XP. But you are absolutely correct about the story line. I was rather horrified at the changes when I ran it.

[capsela]

I like the physical layout changes, and I don't pay much attention to XP. But you are absolutely correct about the story line. I was rather horrified at the changes when I ran it.

QRD on what happened, I don't pay attention to this stuff.

[Kutalp]

I believe it is going to be updated soon same as many other things at Eberron setting.

I have good hopes about this.

[MichelleOtter]

I don't understand either, I had the same thoughts from the beginning :(

[mikarddo]

I don't understand either, I had the same thoughts from the beginning :(

You just necro'ed a 2 year old thread. Since then the xp has been adjusted upwards significantly. Today I consider the Catacombs some of the best xp in epics.

[Zhyano]

I usually need 30min for a full run (most take about 2-3min) for about 300-400k xp on a 10% pot. Couple that with 8 end chests for sentience xp, its amazing results for my time.

Granted, I zerg these like a madman, but theyre certainly not bad xp/min

[Strider1963]

I enjoyed the quests, didn't really look at the xp as my toon was capped, what I didn't care for was that they changed the loot to quest chests rather than chain reward. You now have to run the chain several times over and hope that the item you want is in the chest. It's the same for Deleras now as well. It's too bad these quests are taking a back seat to some of the others that have recently come out.

I agree with this ^^^^ They should have made these quests so once you run the chain, you can run any of the quests without running the whole chain over. This is what makes the epic revision of these 2 chain a total fail. Please devs, never do this again.

[droid327]

I usually need 30min for a full run (most take about 2-3min) for about 300-400k xp on a 10% pot. Couple that with 8 end chests for sentience xp, its amazing results for my time.

Granted, I zerg these like a madman, but theyre certainly not bad xp/min

Plus if you like to group, many of them are "three wing" style quests, which really reward grouping since everyone can split up and take a wing, cutting your time in half or more.

[Redtalktree]

I agree with this ^^^^ They should have made these quests so once you run the chain, you can run any of the quests without running the whole chain over. This is what makes the epic revision of these 2 chain a total fail. Please devs, never do this again.


Really.? Really?..Really? you actually expect devs to handicap themselves? They HAVE never listened to any opinions on the general discussion forums regardless of topic

[krimsonrane]

The XP is a disgrace.

Shame on you devs. This really beyond the pale.

What he/she said.

[Seph1roth5]

Umm...I like the new epic catacombs lol. The XP felt good when my group runs it, well, maybe 3/4 of the quests anyway. The only reason we don't run it every epic life is all the running back and forth, though Thaddeus helps a lot.

I haven't run it in a while, but last time I remember the vermin being too strong. I remember lyn saying he had worked on a lot of vermin but not sure if they were all fixed or if it's still a work in progress.

[Marshal_Lannes]

This is a necro thread but does provide a good example of how players can misunderstand quests when they first come out. Some stages of Epic Catacombs ring up extraordinary XP as you're able to get over 100K in 3 minutes. I don't know, does 33K per/min sound good to you?

[Weemadarthur]

This is a necro thread but does provide a good example of how players can misunderstand quests when they first come out. Some stages of Epic Catacombs ring up extraordinary XP as you're able to get over 100K in 3 minutes. I don't know, does 33K per/min sound good to you?

Except you are wrong again. When these quests came out (and the OP was complaining) the xp in these quests was truly awful. The devs though did listen for a change and the xp was hugely increased shortly after. So not so much of a case of the players misunderstanding quests as you not realizing why this is no longer the case.