No Worries unnerf?

[TitusOvid]

Hey all,
hello SSG,
I don't know if some still remember this (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/503014-No-Worries-Nerf) but I do. It was a huge discussion. And some players hoped this would be addressed this year. It might have fallen under the radar with the big Update 45 but is it still possible that SSG looks over this and adjusts it? Lynn maybe since you are the go-to-girl for loot apparently?

Cheers,
Titus

[Sho-sa]

Ooohh, wir haben nicht vergessen.

[cru121]

On one hand:


Yawn?

On the other hand:


I agree with this premise and I fully approve the nerf.

However, if the mentioned numbers are correct (10AC), these are not level appropriate stats for heavy armor. I would like to point at https://ddowiki.com/page/Armor_by_Proficiency#Half_Plate_Armors.

AML4 Battle Plate has 12 base AC without enhancements, add +2 enhancement bonus for +14.
AML4 Battle Half Plate has 10 base AC without enhancements, add +2 enhancement bonus for +12.

AML10 Magecraft plates have base AC 16 (or 13 for halfplates), add +4 enh.bonus for +20 / +17.

This unfortunate failure to stat low-ML armors properly is not new, other recent examples are Cavalry Plate (missing 4 AC compared to a battle plate) or Deneith Heavy Chain (formerly mithral medium armor which now has the low max dex bonus of a battle plate (+1) but not the AC (+8 base vs +12))

[Dulcimerist]

/signed

This armor can only be acquired during a small time window each year, making it special. At least having it level-appropriate would be nice.

These limited-time events are great places for new players to grind out some decent gear. (Mabar and Crystal Cove helped me equip my characters a bit better back in my noob days.) This full plate used to be something quite nice for new players to farm up so they could take less damage in quests.

[TitusOvid]

Attention seeking.

[Xanthrawl]

You've had your year, now fix No Worries.

[TitusOvid]

You've had your year, now fix No Worries.

Exactly.

[TitusOvid]

bump for SSG

[Cordovan]

I really don't see us adding an additional 17 armor class to a certain piece of ML5 event armor.

[TitusOvid]

It doesn't have to be as high as before but it shouldn't it be at least equal to random loot/cannith crafted loot from the same level?

Cheers,
Titus

[dsmwhiteknight]

I really don't see us adding an additional 17 armor class to a certain piece of ML5 event armor.

Cordovan, you have missed what they are saying. They did not ask for it to go back to pre-nerf of being 17 ac over what it is now.

They are asking for it to at least be brought on par with existing regular heavy armor. See this page: https://ddowiki.com/page/Armor_by_Proficiency. Full plate armor that is ml 4 currently has a base 12 AC with no other bonuses, where No Worries at ml 5 only has a base AC of 8. Ml 10 full plate armor has a base AC of 16 where the No Worries ml 10 has a base AC of 12.

All they are saying is it should bare minimum be brought up to level appropriate for base in game items. Not even anything special. I don't think that is unreasonable. I am sure they could find named armors that are over base, but they did not even make that argument.

There was discussion of this fact last year and a dev looked into it and acknowledged the numbers were off, yet nothing has been done. (I have not dug up the thread at this point) So they are upset.

I don't have a horse in this race because I never use heavy armors, but come on, having a special item that has a lower AC total than a blank crafting item kind of sucks.

[fatherpirate]

It did get nerfed hard ... AND
that is why I am not bothering to grind for it

[Hulligan]

I really don't see us adding an additional 17 armor class to a certain piece of ML5 event armor.

You don't also see an issue, that a certain piece of hardly attainable (once per year) item for which the you have to grind ingredients which are also obtainable in the same once-per-year event, being severely worse than any random loot that anyone can buy off the AH for a few plat.
No offense, really... but in that case, why do you even bother creating items like this? Waste of time (Dev, Qua, Testing and player time).

[Captain_Wizbang]

They did not ask for it to go back to pre-nerf of being 17 ac over what it is now.

There was discussion of this fact last year and a dev looked into it and acknowledged the numbers were off, yet nothing has been done. (I have not dug up the thread at this point) So they are upset.


That armor was the best non-set armor since the level cap went over 16. The nerf to it was a BIG BLOW to an event item people farmed for. Now I compare it to E Cavalry Plate. What's the point of farming for items worse or no better than random loot? Sure the zero armor check is sexy, but it loses it's appeal after that.

Let me post an example. Full Plate of the Defender. It might only be good for 2 or 3 levels, but it is still viable.

No wonder No Worries is sitting in a corner under a stage, his namesake item is gathering dust in many bank accounts. :rolleyes:

SSG give that armor a bump please.

[Xanthrawl]

I really don't see us adding an additional 17 armor class to a certain piece of ML5 event armor.

We went through this last year, when you made your claims on the livestream and I called you out. Please take a moment to re-familiarize yourself with the situation.

Yall already agreed last year that the nerf was too hard for this event item, but said it would take a year to bump it back up a bit (which still makes no sense, but whatever.) It's been a year. Please make this event item worth having and using. OR please delete it from the game entirely and refund the Party Favors used to create them.

As it currently stands, it's nothing but a new player trap. And let's be honest, there's already enough of those ingame.

[Nonesuch2008]

We went through this last year, when you made your claims on the livestream and I called you out. Please take a moment to re-familiarize yourself with the situation.

Yall already agreed last year that the nerf was too hard for this event item, but said it would take a year to bump it back up a bit (which still makes no sense, but whatever.) It's been a year. Please make this event item worth having and using. OR please delete it from the game entirely and refund the Party Favors used to create them.

As it currently stands, it's nothing but a new player trap. And let's be honest, there's already enough of those ingame.

I agree, that's a pretty tone-deaf response. No one is realistically expecting a 17-point swing in the stat value, and I don't think that anyone is asking for that. However, for an event item which has to be earned over time, one would expect it to be at a minimum comparable to other forms of loot at the same level, and certainly not have underperforming stat's when compared to random loot. This is where the disconnect lies.

[TitusOvid]

Come on SSG, we gave you a year as you said you need for whatever reason. At least check it out and come straight.

Cheers,
Titus

[Dulcimerist]

Here's a link to the thread from last year and the livestream:
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/503014-No-Worries-Nerf?p=6182398&viewfull=1#post6182398


I'm unsure why Cordo feels that No Worries has to be either the way it is now, or the way it used to be - overpowered with 17 more AC. Neither of those is good. The current No Worries is 4 AC lower than crafted armor, so adding only 5 to 7 points of AC to No Worries would make it special again, and would stop the complaints and put the whole matter to rest.

Considering the humor embedded in the Anniversary Event, I'm beginning to suspect that the initial design of the overpowered armor and its nerfing to be subpar armor not worth having was in some way intentional to create extra drama surrounding the event, thereby adding more of the same flavor of humor that was designed into the Anniversary Event.

Edit: I found this excellent post by Steelstar, describing the story behind No Worries, and mentioning that No Worries could have its values slightly adjusted if we provided examples showing its stats are currently lagging behind armors of comparable level:
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/503014-No-Worries-Nerf?p=6180364&viewfull=1#post6180364
Steelstar has likely been busy with the recent update and today's patch, and I greatly appreciate his time with that. If he gets a breather, perhaps he will take a look at this smaller issue.

[TitusOvid]

So nothing will happen, then? No adjustment, no party favor back, no reaction at all?
Well, thanks for the dupe.

Titus.

[Fauxknight]

Agreed that the nerf was too much. No worries has nothing to offer anymore, I haven't used mine since last year. No worries went from being my go to armor to a waste of bank space. It doesn't need to be the "best" armor out there, it should at least be competitive with other heavy armors though, which it is not.

[Aelonwy]

Here's a link to the thread from last year and the livestream:
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/503014-No-Worries-Nerf?p=6182398&viewfull=1#post6182398


I'm unsure why Cordo feels that No Worries has to be either the way it is now, or the way it used to be - overpowered with 17 more AC. Neither of those is good. The current No Worries is 4 AC lower than crafted armor, so adding only 5 to 7 points of AC to No Worries would make it special again, and would stop the complaints and put the whole matter to rest.

Considering the humor embedded in the Anniversary Event, I'm beginning to suspect that the initial design of the overpowered armor and its nerfing to be subpar armor not worth having was in some way intentional to create extra drama surrounding the event, thereby adding more of the same flavor of humor that was designed into the Anniversary Event.

Edit: I found this excellent post by Steelstar, describing the story behind No Worries, and mentioning that No Worries could have its values slightly adjusted if we provided examples showing its stats are currently lagging behind armors of comparable level:
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/503014-No-Worries-Nerf?p=6180364&viewfull=1#post6180364
Steelstar has likely been busy with the recent update and today's patch, and I greatly appreciate his time with that. If he gets a breather, perhaps he will take a look at this smaller issue.

Since it is incredibly obvious that the three devs (Steelstar, Lynnabel, Cordovan) in the previous linked thread have entirely forgot the conversation from last year altogether perhaps it would be best to start a new thread with the evidence and their previous quotes to remind them exactly what the issue is with the overly-nerfed low-level No Worries armor. But since no changes were done this year and they've completely forgotten about it to the point of not even remembering exactly what the issue is... personally, I would just give up on it as a lost cause. If it means that much to anyone to make a new thread, take the time to title it something that will get their attention but be polite. And very carefully lay out the evidence from the previous thread with screenshots and their previous statements, especially the bit about the tiered craftable base armors -Battle/Skirmish/Mage Craft/Mountain- Cordovan especially seems unaware of their existence as if he has completely forgotten the Armor Up update.

[SiliconScout]

I really don't see us adding an additional 17 armor class to a certain piece of ML5 event armor.How about adding 5 then. At least it would measure up and be "an option" though sub par over utterly useless like it is now. You know like was discussed last time around. Hell how about 7 or 8 and make it an excellent choice at that level.

yeeesh.

[Captain_Wizbang]

Since it is incredibly obvious that the three devs (Steelstar, Lynnabel, Cordovan) in the previous linked thread have entirely forgot the conversation from last year altogether perhaps it would be best to start a new thread with the evidence and their previous quotes to remind them exactly what the issue is with the overly-nerfed low-level No Worries armor. But since no changes were done this year and they've completely forgotten about it to the point of not even remembering exactly what the issue is... personally, I would just give up on it as a lost cause. If it means that much to anyone to make a new thread, take the time to title it something that will get their attention but be polite. And very carefully lay out the evidence from the previous thread with screenshots and their previous statements, especially the bit about the tiered craftable base armors -Battle/Skirmish/Mage Craft/Mountain- Cordovan especially seems unaware of their existence as if he has completely forgotten the Armor Up update.


+1, really good post.

I catch flack from my guildies about me not Cannith crafting. It's a personal choice, I play with what the game has without C crafting. Sure I lose out on certain things, but then I'm not into the super-uber scene (inc completionist)

That being said, the nerf to No Worries armor and then the aforementioned posts by staff last year gave me a glimmer of hope that this year it would gain back some of the benefits it once had.
So this year I happily started running the event and gathering favors. After a few runs I then remembered about the armour, (I was going to make a level 20 set) and stopped my farming agenda right then and there.

SSG, people relied on that armor to offset the much needed defensive stats that are lacking in the game. (S&B Vanguard fully spec'ed is not much better off than a monk in stance :mad:) As was briefly discussed last year by staff, most of us expected some kind of rebound this year. And yet here we are. :(

As I'm running a few kensai's through TR's, Im seeing random loot drops of heavy armor that are superior to NW's. That's not right.

Give it a bump, and throw it in the next patch (yes it's that simple for us non-coders :rolleyes:)

[Captain_Wizbang]

https://i.imgur.com/AfWt0nb.png

[Folker]

Does this apply to all levels of no worries?

[SiliconScout]

Does this apply to all levels of no worries?More or less. I can't think of a single level where it's the best choice heck I struggle to think of a single level where it's even an OK one.

[Aelonwy]

I think levels 5 and 10 are the most egregious where it doesn't compare well with recent (last 2-3 years) named items and even compares poorly with Cannith Crafted provided the crafter sensibly used the base armors added during the Armor Up update.