NEW THF Animation

[kuzka111]

Is it only me or the new animation is just bad (sucks as hell)

i w8ed like 3-4 months for some meele upgrades and now im just dissapointed...

SSG WHAT FOR DO YOU DO LAMM TEST and then give us bugged things...

its so hard too take time longer and do it properly?


atm i got problem with hiting breakbales , the new animation looks like peasant that got his first Greatsword... i got problem with hiting breakabless and mobs are just laughing. (i only tested GS)

is this rly all you can do?




your former fan Kylerr

p.s will not apologize for my writing its not my lang and its just not worth for you guys....
p.s.2 its bc all you cr ap work you do :) your fake balance that you cant do properly, your fail reaper that only scale dmg/hp bc you cant do nothing orginal (and that f-word this game even more)
and lots of more that i just will not write bc its wast of my time :)

p.s.3 for all forum paladins : yes i will play this game still and complained bc still its 1 of best on market but not thanks to ssg the only base on very good corpse

[J-2]

I took it for a quick test drive in 'No Refunds'.
Paladin L30 - Perfect 2handed Fighting.

The animation is weird. I like the graphical effect, but its too much.
Distracting. Maybe that will eventually go away.

I'm also having issues hitting breakables, particularly when I'm running.
Not just isolated to running though. Standing still and facing a breakable i've missed as well.
I thought it was just me.

I am delighted to be doing maybe 20% more damage per hit (320 to 420)
However, losing Holy Retribution as a charge based attack means I can only use it twice per mob.
This ends up being a wash.

A six-pack of mobs took me 2:05 (was 2:25).
The Boss, Lil Babet, took me around 5:50 to kill (was 6:00).

Lead the charge was a nice addition, but it requires targeting.
Its difficult to acquire targeting when surrounded.
This leads to it being unusable as enemies fall.
Numerous attempts to target always end up selecting me.
It also causes my character to spin, which is not desired.

I still take an incredibly ungodly amount of damage for 236prr/126mrr/136ac.
Reading other posts here, i'm not sure everything is actually working yet as intended.
More testing and familiarity is needed for sure, but right now I stand at their 2hf upgrade was 'weak sauce'.

[Stravix]

I took it for a quick test drive in 'No Refunds'.
Paladin L30 - Perfect 2handed Fighting.

The animation is weird. I like the graphical effect, but its too much.
Distracting. Maybe that will eventually go away.

I'm also having issues hitting breakables, particularly when I'm running.
Not just isolated to running though. Standing still and facing a breakable i've missed as well.
I thought it was just me.

I am delighted to be doing maybe 20% more damage per hit (320 to 420)
However, losing Holy Retribution as a charge based attack means I can only use it twice per mob.
This ends up being a wash.

A six-pack of mobs took me 2:05 (was 2:25).
The Boss, Lil Babet, took me around 5:50 to kill (was 6:00).

Lead the charge was a nice addition, but it requires targeting.
Its difficult to acquire targeting when surrounded.
This leads to it being unusable as enemies fall.
Numerous attempts to target always end up selecting me.
It also causes my character to spin, which is not desired.

I still take an incredibly ungodly amount of damage for 236prr/126mrr/136ac.
Reading other posts here, i'm not sure everything is actually working yet as intended.
More testing and familiarity is needed for sure, but right now I stand at their 2hf upgrade was 'weak sauce'.

How many combat tactics were you using? The new ST mechanic heavily incentives the use of single target abilities now. As such, things like sunder, trip, and stunning blow are all huge for THF builds now

[J-2]

How many combat tactics were you using?

None.
I've never found much advantage to any of them in the past.

[Stravix]

None.
I've never found much advantage to any of them in the past.

Try it again using the ones you have available and see how it is. I would assume that at least your sunder DC will be decent as a pally, and the fort strip will help your damage a ton. Ad if survivability is an issue, AoE trip will be helpful

[Cantor]

Lead the charge was a nice addition, but it requires targeting.
Its difficult to acquire targeting when surrounded.
This leads to it being unusable as enemies fall.
Numerous attempts to target always end up selecting me.


Are you clicking to target? I don't see how else you could target yourself. Tab to target (I think it's default, it's what I use anyway).

[heavyaslead0]

The animation has a slight lag to the effect (hits)

Seems like you have to 'wind-up' the swing before you see breakables break or monsters hit

The clickies like Cleave and Boulder's Might seem to take a lag waiting for the animation to 'wind-up'

DEVS Please sync the animation with the effect a little better (pull the effect forward of the animation)

Also noticed Glancing blows still showing for Epic Past life Martial Feat, should this be Strikethrough?

[ideal_insomnia]

Is it just me, or it's not just the animation, the actual attack range of 2HF is now smaller? I tried testing this by 1) swinging a 1hander and a 2hander at a training dummy while moving my characters. At the exact same moment I stop hitting with a 1hander I also stop hitting with a 2hander. 2) I used the new Knight's Charge ability while holding a 2hander, which should bring me into melee range. While the charge itself works, from the spot where it brings me I can't actually hit the dummy, I have to come closer. Surely this isn't supposed to be happening?..

[kuzka111]

Is it just me, or it's not just the animation, the actual attack range of 2HF is now smaller? I tried testing this by 1) swinging a 1hander and a 2hander at a training dummy while moving my characters. At the exact same moment I stop hitting with a 1hander I also stop hitting with a 2hander. 2) I used the new Knight's Charge ability while holding a 2hander, which should bring me into melee range. While the charge itself works, from the spot where it brings me I can't actually hit the dummy, I have to come closer. Surely this isn't supposed to be happening?..


this...

imo they lower thf weapons range and thats teh problem...

[Weemadarthur]

Is it just me, or it's not just the animation, the actual attack range of 2HF is now smaller? I tried testing this by 1) swinging a 1hander and a 2hander at a training dummy while moving my characters. At the exact same moment I stop hitting with a 1hander I also stop hitting with a 2hander. 2) I used the new Knight's Charge ability while holding a 2hander, which should bring me into melee range. While the charge itself works, from the spot where it brings me I can't actually hit the dummy, I have to come closer. Surely this isn't supposed to be happening?..

Yes I have noticed this also, 2HF range seems to have lowered and the animations don't seem to sync well with the hits (1st swing in particular seems to wait till right at the very end of the animation before the hit takes effect whereas the 2nd seems to connect at the same time as my weapon would hit the mob.) After that it feels a bit messy and hits tend to feel like they are coming at random intervals rather than when the animation would connect with the mob.

[ideal_insomnia]

So it's not just me. Ok, I sent a ticket reporting this, hope it gets fixed soon!

[Monkey_Archer]

Almost everything about the new THF rework seems rushed and hamfisted, as if it was last on the To-Do list and nobody was all that excited about it. While i'll give props to the devs for their response to the first (and only) round of THF feedback, it was clear that at least 3 rounds were needed. Hopefully this will still happen.

From a visual perspective the new animations look worse, and do not line up with the actual hit.
From an auditory perspective, the sounds do not line up with either the animation or the actual hit.
From game play perspective it just feels terrible and sterile (twitch fighting was much more enjoyable, and added depth to the style, similar to kiting or jump casting)
From a balance perspective it didn't really make THF more viable for all builds, it just shoved barbarians (and similar builds) to the top.

The only positive part is the strikethrough mechanic, which IMO is better than glancing blows. But, taken as a whole I would prefer that the entire rework gets reverted until the next update so that all the issues can be resolved properly.

[Drachmoril]

your former fan Kylerr


Oh ****. Aren't you the Cannith super-completionist, who literally ONLY plays THF?

If this guy doesn't like THF animations, I'd take another look at them lol.

THF should be kings of barrel-breaking. And swinging a greatsword is supposed to feel good.

[Fenrisulven7]

I would welcome a revert to old animation. It was fine as it was.

[Fenrisulven7]

Focusing on it at 1st lvl - the "lag effect" people are feeling may be the initial swing - you swing backwards first, then first strike on second movement. It's throwing the timing off.

It also feels like some of my follow up swings are missing because they aren't in range of the target.

The "whoosh" sound occurs on the backswing, not the attack, so that also feels off.



Note that in Auto Attack mode the timing sequence is better. It's when you are on the run and initiate the first swing (windup) that the timing is off. Woosh then strike instead of Woosh/Strike.

When I hear the first "woosh" I am automatically shifting to my next target, but the first strike hasn't actually landed yet.

The rest of the animation is cool. I think the initial one (with wind up over back shoulder) is the problem. Feels like every 1st strike is delayed.


....sorry but... how did this make it past the Llama Proving Grounds?



Yes I have noticed this also, 2HF range seems to have lowered

I'm noticing this as well, feels gimpy. Greatswords should never feel gimpy.

I am having to stand up against the crates to break them. I just took 8 swings from the old muscle memory version and all of them missed. Had to reposition directly in front and against crate to break it.

Why would you REDUCE the reach of a Greatsword on a THF buff pass? Historically, the blade itself measured 50-72 inches, ie. 4-6 feet before even adding arm length.

http://www.thearma.org/essays/2HGS.html#.XkYWv2hKiUk

[Weemadarthur]

Focusing on it at 1st lvl - the "lag effect" people are feeling may be the initial swing - you swing backwards first, then first strike on second movement. It's throwing the timing off.

It also feels like some of my follow up swings are missing because they aren't in range of the target.

What I'm finding on my lvl 7 Barb is that the 1st hit doesn't occur till my axe finishes the downward strike (this feels as if its happening after the weapon would have made contact graphically). the 2nd hit seems to occur as the axe swings past the mob (this one feels like it's occurring the same time as the weapon makes contact) and then after that it gets a bit messy tbh and feels kind of random. The actual hitbox does seem a lot smaller and makes me feel like I'm only getting the range of a 1 hand weapon.

As a side note I've also noticed that my ST strikes only seem to happen when mobs are right in front of me (as in I have to be almost stood on top of them to get any effect) and once they are more than one mob space to the left or right ST never seems to go off. This would give ST a slightly narrower field of attack than cleave (which also hits mobs behind the 1st mob which I have yet to see ST do) and would give an artificial ST cap of 3 or maybe 4 mobs able to be hit. If anyone has a higher lvl toon that could either confirm or refute this I would appreciate the feedback.

Just to clarify the above if I have a mob right in front of me and one stood directly to my left I only ever seem to hit the one in front, but if I turn slightly to the left 1st so they are both within a 90 degree arc in front of me I hit both. Now if one of those mobs takes 1 step back to put himself in the 2nd rank I don't seem to be able to hit him again (although I will still hit him with cleave).

[Fenrisulven7]

What I'm finding on my lvl 7 Barb is that the 1st hit doesn't occur till my axe finishes the downward strike (this feels as if its happening after the weapon would have made contact graphically). the 2nd hit seems to occur as the axe swings past the mob (this one feels like it's occurring the same time as the weapon makes contact) and then after that it gets a bit messy tbh and feels kind of random. The actual hitbox does seem a lot smaller and makes me feel like I'm only getting the range of a 1 hand weapon.

As a side note I've also noticed that my ST strikes only seem to happen when mobs are right in front of me (as in I have to be almost stood on top of them to get any effect) and once they are more than one mob space to the left or right ST never seems to go off. This would give ST a slightly narrower field of attack than cleave (which also hits mobs behind the 1st mob which I have yet to see ST do) and would give an artificial ST cap of 3 or maybe 4 mobs able to be hit. If anyone has a higher lvl toon that could either confirm or refute this I would appreciate the feedback.

Just to clarify the above if I have a mob right in front of me and one stood directly to my left I only ever seem to hit the one in front, but if I turn slightly to the left 1st so they are both within a 90 degree arc in front of me I hit both. Now if one of those mobs takes 1 step back to put himself in the 2nd rank I don't seem to be able to hit him again (although I will still hit him with cleave).

Yup, I'm seeing the same thing.

first hit is delayed, followup attacks have no relation to the animation, weapon reach feels like a dagger's.

[Buddha5440]

Definitely NOT a fan of the new animation. As said above, timing feels way-off, targeting seems off, and range seems smaller.

[FestusHood]

Why did they change the animation anyway? Was it aesthetic or is the new animation supposed to be faster or what?

[Komradkillingmachine]

Why did they change the animation anyway? Was it aesthetic or is the new animation supposed to be faster or what?

Anything to stop THF toons from twitch fighting, balance be damned.

[Weemadarthur]

Why did they change the animation anyway? Was it aesthetic or is the new animation supposed to be faster or what?

The old animation had slow attacks at the end which players could avoid by breaking the chain and restarting, the new animation has a constant attack speed so when standing and fighting the 4 attacks are equal in length so overall slightly quicker. However as standing still = soulstone in melee combat the new animations aren't appreciably quicker than what we had before and due to the choppy nature of the hits + the reduced attack range is actually quite a large downgrade in effectiveness.

[Clemeit]

There seem to be a ~1 second delay from the moment you start swinging till the moment something lands. Although the entire sequence length (apparently) stayed the same, the slow start makes it feel horrible.

Compared with the previous animation this feels very sluggish. I hope this is changed back, because waiting an entire second before getting off the first swing... that's just bad design.

[kuzka111]

im curious if any of dev reading this thread...

and what are they thoughts about it if they do

[Kinerd]

....sorry but... how did this make it past the Llama Proving Grounds?

because that's not what they're for

devs will (sometimes) respond to lamannia complaints with quantitative adjustments on the edges but never qualitative; consider how we got a higher multiplier to Str for THF, but not implementing Strikethrough and sticking with glancing blows was never on the table

since this isn't a quantitative adjustment, we're stuck with it

the best advice i can give everyone is get used to it - the level cap increase is going to be so much worse

[Xgemina]

Count me as another who does not care for the new THF animation. It feels like the hit box is much smaller, more tightly focused to just in front of the character. I supposed this is to reinforce that you no longer get grazing hits, but now you have to get right up in the mob's face to register a hit - which is completely throwing me off on my THF char. A greataxe shouldn't have the same hit box as a short sword, but that's the way it feels to me now.

I haven't experienced the lag for abilities that others are saying - that feels the same to me. But, the animation seems smoother when just holding down attack rather than clicking.

[LurkingVeteran]

Tried an old L7 Greatsword HELf test character. There is definitely something off with the actual damage application for the moving-swing animation, and the hitbox may also be off/smaller. There is almost a full second delay on clicking the button to the damage being applied. It was so bad that I had the damage from the previous animation aligning with the next swing hitting the mob. If you want to know how it should be, compare this to a quarterstaff (Shadar-Kai) which has almost instant damage application and felt much better to play.

I'm not one for drama, but this is bad. I cannot stress this enough: the action gameplay is a main selling point of DDO, don't mess this up. Yes, twitching looked weird, but it was at least optional. This is mandatory weird. I assume it's just a timing set point somewhere for when the strike actually connects. Changing this 1 delay parameter would make the combat much more enjoyable.

While you are at it, the monk unarmed attacks have long also had an awkwardly long delay on them connecting. This is especially bad from stealth.

[kuzka111]

so guys here we have answer

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/512382-Please-please-fix-kotc#post6296534

"Off topic, but: We're taking a look at those but have no confirmed bugs related to them, and no changes to announce at this time."

so all is fine THF can die :D

[Stravix]

so guys here we have answer

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/512382-Please-please-fix-kotc#post6296534

"Off topic, but: We're taking a look at those but have no confirmed bugs related to them, and no changes to announce at this time."

so all is fine THF can die :D

Looking into it = all is fine?

[kuzka111]

Looking into it = all is fine?


yep 1 prew at Lamm 2 prew at Lamm and now 3 prew at live server but they dont have confirmed bugs and will look in to so dont worry 1-2 years and they will repair :D

this is nice joke :D

2-3 threads where ppl say about thf bugs...

[Kinerd]

^ like i said

would love to be proven wrong one of these days, but today is not that day, and tomorrow isn't looking good either v_v

[Sam-u-r-eye]

I was going to resub to try out the THF changes but this thread is very disheartening. I guess I'll wait till it's addressed. I loved the attack animation and fluidity of the old THF, as well as the twitching.

[LavidDynch]

I was going to resub to try out the THF changes but this thread is very disheartening. I guess I'll wait till it's addressed. I loved the attack animation and fluidity of the old THF, as well as the twitching.


not sure if this helps... but the current meta is not good or good...

1st attacks is very nonsresponsive... i.e. smite attacks is documented on like 3rd attack despite being triggered as first action.... once u get the "dmg" flow going on this new system it feels better than old one...

[Sam-u-r-eye]

not sure if this helps... but the current meta is not good or good...

1st attacks is very nonsresponsive... i.e. smite attacks is documented on like 3rd attack despite being triggered as first action.... once u get the "dmg" flow going on this new system it feels better than old one...

hope you're doin well dude, good to see ya postin

[LurkingVeteran]

Fixing the timing of damage application should just be a parameter tweak hopefully. Can't speak foe the other issues.