Symbol of Weakness

[smokejumper89]

Why is there a no-save, irremovable debuff that lasts for 6 minutes?

I'm typng this post as a cower in a corner of a dungeon, unable to use scrolls, potions, clicks, cast spells, or even change equipment. Every single action other than walking just results in a "you are helpless" message. There doesn't appear to be any possible way to remove it short of a shrine, which I won't be able to reach.

And it lasts over 6 minutes.

How is this mechanic supposed to be fun?

[MilleXIV]

Symbol of Weakness (https://ddowiki.com/page/Symbol_of_Weakness) both grants a save (Fortitude to negate) and has multiple ways of removing the effects (resting, Restoration in potion/wand/scroll/spell form). If you're solo you can either make your way to a shrine to rest and remove it, or bring along a hireling with Restoration.

[SpartanKiller13]

Is there a spot you're getting hit by it? According to Wiki there's a bug that it ends if you leave the symbol?

Frankly I can't remember encountering it in-game, which is why I'm asking :)

I will say the 3-minute blindness caused by ogre shamans in the Depths chain was the first serious debuff I ran into that seemed a bit excessive, but it did get me to start carrying pots more.

[J1NG]

OP, are you talking Symbol of Weakness or Symbol of Pain?

Weakness can and does have ways to remove it.

Pain does not short of a full shrine rest or death.

J1NG

[smokejumper89]

According to Wiki there's a bug that it ends if you leave the symbol?


Only counts for monsters. Players hit by it keep it.



Symbol of Weakness (https://ddowiki.com/page/Symbol_of_Weakness) both grants a save (Fortitude to negate) and has multiple ways of removing the effects (resting, Restoration in potion/wand/scroll/spell form). If you're solo you can either make your way to a shrine to rest and remove it, or bring along a hireling with Restoration.



Weakness can and does have ways to remove it.


I had access to all of the ways of removing it(aside of a rest shrine) and was unable to use ANY of them. ANY action at all only triggered a "You are helpless" message. I was not able to cast spells, drink potions, use scrolls, or change equipment. There was no periodic "save" role appearing on the screen to indicate I was attempting a saving throw. As far as I could possibly tell, there was absolutely no way to remove it other than waiting out the overly excessive timer.

And I had a lot of time to try.

[Enoach]

It is these types of things that add a dimension to the game that actually works towards different types of preparedness

You appear to have been prepared to "react" but not prepared to "defend" against the problem

Now some "defenses"

One is to have 19+ Strength - Exceeds the 3d6 (3 to 18) potential. That is not always practical depending on the build/level range.

Two is to have a strong Fortitude save. This is also something that is not always practical depending on the build/level range.

Three is to have spell resistance. Spell resistance plus saves is similar to the tiered system of AC miss chances. Even have a little at low levels to a moderate amount in mid range quests can make a big difference in needing to react to a condition such as what is brought on by "Symbol of Weakness". There is even gear available at low levels, divines have access to a spell that grants this, and some races have this as part of their bonuses.

Fourth is spell absorption this simply prevents the spell at a cost of charges. There is equipment available both where the charges dissipate until the item is used up, and some that regen upon rest. This are in many cases best used when you know you are entering a situation that will need them vs having them on at all times.

Fifth is simply to avoid the area. Find away around the symbol or simply wait out (5 minutes) for it to disappear (less if you can get it to trigger on a summon/hire level one celestial dogs are good for setting off traps just as an example). The one advantage against Symbols vs spells like enfeeble / waves is that you for the most part can find away around them without needing to trigger them.
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Those are some defenses that can help minimize being in a bad situation.

When you get to the point where you need to "react" that is where you need an alternative source of restoring you. Be it another player, a hire with restore, or even a hire with the ability to raise your strength. The other alternative is to find yourself a safe corner to wait until the effects pass.

[droid327]

One is to have 19+ Strength - Exceeds the 3d6 (3 to 18) potential. That is not always practical depending on the build/level range.


10 base STR
+2 ship buffs
+4 STR pot
+2 Rage pot

That's 18 available right from L1, considering every build should probably start with at least 10 STR or expect to get knocked Helpless from STR damage occasionally. So you'd only go Helpless on an 18 - not immunity, but pretty good odds.

[SpartanKiller13]

10 base STR
+2 ship buffs
+4 STR pot
+2 Rage pot

That's 18 available right from L1, considering every build should probably start with at least 10 STR or expect to get knocked Helpless from STR damage occasionally. So you'd only go Helpless on an 18 - not immunity, but pretty good odds.

If you're talking first life, I certainly couldn't afford to keep two pots running at level 1. If you mean future lives, +2 favor tome will bump you far enough past that :)

[MilleXIV]

I had access to all of the ways of removing it(aside of a rest shrine) and was unable to use ANY of them. ANY action at all only triggered a "You are helpless" message. I was not able to cast spells, drink potions, use scrolls, or change equipment. There was no periodic "save" role appearing on the screen to indicate I was attempting a saving throw. As far as I could possibly tell, there was absolutely no way to remove it other than waiting out the overly excessive timer.

And I had a lot of time to try.

So there's no periodic saving throw. Just an initial one. If it lands your strength score is reduced by 3d6. If that goes to 0 then you will be put into a Helpless (https://ddowiki.com/page/Helpless) state and no longer be able to act. If your Strength score is high enough to still have some after the effect you'd be able to use those items. The best ways to deal with this are:


Know about this happening in the quest and come with Strength buffs
Bring a hireling with Restoration and have them remove it
Just recall and rerun the quest, usually quicker than waiting it out

[Jerevth]

Hah.
The Quori Stalkers in VON 2 can drive your charisma down to zero pretty quickly, too. I've had warlock builds with well over 20 get zeroed; those debuffs stack.

You can exchange the prayer beads that kobolds drop with the kobold in the Harbor for Potions of lesser restoration. I'd strongly recommend keeping a stack of those on a hotbar for quickly clearing the debuffs before they hit 0. Prayer beads are one of the most common drops in the game making this an easily affordable mitigation.

Every stat has a debuff that potentially zeroes out a character. It's easier to prepare in advance (and burn a few extra LR Pots) than suffer a crippling 0 stat for six minutes.

[SpartanKiller13]

Hah.
The Quori Stalkers in VON 2 can drive your charisma down to zero pretty quickly, too. I've had warlock builds with well over 20 get zeroed; those debuffs stack.


True, but you regain your Cha at a fairly reasonable rate when fighting them so you can get a few hits off at 1 Cha before you get debuffed and have to wait-repeat.

Source: I've cycled that a few times while being unprepared :)

The only one I've really struggled with was Dreaming Dark's boss, because it spams stat-drains and regenerates (so you can't even pick their HP down).

[Jerevth]

True, but you regain your Cha at a fairly reasonable rate when fighting them so you can get a few hits off at 1 Cha before you get debuffed and have to wait-repeat.

Source: I've cycled that a few times while being unprepared :)

The only one I've really struggled with was Dreaming Dark's boss, because it spams stat-drains and regenerates (so you can't even pick their HP down).



Excellent point. I didn't take duration into account. but there is nothing like that panic fueled run when I realize "My spells aren't going off!?" and try to get away in order to regroup. (I solo so no one can see me run.) :rolleyes:

I may have given the Dreaming Dark a pass these last few lives... The pain to gain ratio isn't appealing for me at this time. I'll go review and reconsider if I want to do it this life.

[SpartanKiller13]

Excellent point. I didn't take duration into account. but there is nothing like that panic fueled run when I realize "My spells aren't going off!?" and try to get away in order to regroup. (I solo so no one can see me run.) :rolleyes:

I may have given the Dreaming Dark a pass these last few lives... The pain to gain ratio isn't appealing for me at this time. I'll go review and reconsider if I want to do it this life.

Usually I go solo that side because it's pretty easy, but if I don't oneshot the cha-vampires it's a bit more of a hassle :)

I've done Dreaming Dark all of once to upgrade a PLIS that I obtained. Was enough for me lol, I burned 50 AS for the upgrade and haven't returned. Maybe on a divine caster or with a party?