To Free Players Only: What to Next?

[Chaosticket1]

I'm about to level up again but because of my level there are very few quests left. I've done almost every quest on Normal, Hard, and Elite difficulties.

I could switch servers and start over. That would allow me to gain First-Time DDO points. However that would be tedious with the same class. Other classes would be options but they wouldn't be able to go Solo, making them Dead Ends.

Unlocking new options is important to my interests but grinding to unlock things to grind with is another Dead End

It seems I've run the coarse of Dungeons and Dragons Online.

[cru121]

Buy an adventure pack? Many are on discount this week.
Run again on reaper?
Spend a few bucks for an expansion?
Continue playing for free?
What's the level of your character and how many ddo points have you accumulated?

All classes can run solo.

[Kinerd]

free content gets you to 20 pretty easily, and you can get tokens of the twelve to TR from a free chain too (Lords of Dust). with that said it's almost never a good idea to TR your only high level character, and i would say definitely not in your scenario. i would keep that character around for Cannith crafting, favor rewards, gear farming, and limited time events, all of which will make leveling an alt much easier than starting fresh on a new server

there's no real point in gaining epic levels without Epic Destinies, and there's no real point to that until you have more epic-capable content unlocked, so i would focus on packs first, then Destinies. that lets you run the full gamut of content depending on what you're looking for on any given day

you have been offered builds in the past that not only can solo but are better soloers than your current build, so i have no idea why you think classes besides the cleric can't solo

[marinersfan]

How many classes have you played? When I started out, I hopped servers to get the extra DP to unlock more packs, and also find a guild I wanted to stay loyal to. This also gave me exposure to other classes (many of the free classes can solo) and figure out what playstyle I found most enjoyable.

If you haven't tried bard, they're pretty underrated and also fun. I think it says they are "difficult" to solo, but their dps is acceptable, have some cool crowd control options, and can heal pretty well. You can splash a few rogue levels and have a pretty solid trapper, too (though getting gear would be a challenge on a brand new server).

Part of the fun of this game (imo) is trying out the various classes, so if you've played one class and think you've done all you can, I'd encourage you to try a new build.

[Gniewomir]

free content gets you to 20 pretty easily

not true. running all quests with streak on r1 will give you enough xp for lvl 11. Lets say you run lod chain, demons den and lvl 15 f2ps at character lvl 11 (what is impossible, you wont be able to solo above normal/hard and nobody will run it on lvl 11), you should be lvl 12-13. Even assuming it's 13 you're at 760k/1900k (lvl 20), so you're not even in the middle. If by "get to 20 pretty easly" you mean repeat every quest 5 or more times (next runs without streak and 1st time bonus will give a lot less xp) you could be right.

As you can see this account of mine is pretty new, so info above is tested&confirmed by playing.

[C-Dog]

I could switch servers and start over. That would allow me to gain First-Time DDO points. However that would be tedious with the same class. Other classes would be options but they wouldn't be able to go Solo, making them Dead Ends.

Unlocking new options is important to my interests but grinding to unlock things to grind with is another Dead End
You have brought these misconceptions up before, and been given answers to them, and not long ago. The fact that you're doing so again raises the question of whether you were listening then, and would listen now if given the same responses.


It seems I've run the coarse of Dungeons and Dragons Online.
It seems you complain just to complain. Stop being a drama queen. If you like the game, then play the game. If you don't, find something better.

I wouldn't be harsh if this were your first time doing so, but it's not, nor close to it. Get over it or accept it - those are your only alternatives.

[Kinerd]

not true. running all quests with streak on r1 will give you enough xp for lvl 11. Lets say you run lod chain, demons den and lvl 15 f2ps at character lvl 11 (what is impossible, you wont be able to solo above normal/hard and nobody will run it on lvl 11), you should be lvl 12-13. Even assuming it's 13 you're at 760k/1900k (lvl 20), so you're not even in the middle. If by "get to 20 pretty easly" you mean repeat every quest 5 or more times (next runs without streak and 1st time bonus will give a lot less xp) you could be right.

As you can see this account of mine is pretty new, so info above is tested&confirmed by playing.

there is a middle ground between running all quests once and six+ times, and i consider that middle ground "pretty easily"

base xp for 20- f2p quests is 219,801
daily 25%
conquest 25%
ransack 15%
no reentry 10%

normal first time 20%
hard first time 20% bravery 50%, and about 7.5% over base
elite first time 45% bravery 50%, and about 15% over base

that adds up to 1.7m with no optionals, wilderness, challenges, daily rolls, any other exp of any kind, a few of those and a few more repeats here and there to make up the last 200k is no problem

first life f2p can't open on reaper anyway, so good old n/h/e is more plausible imo. if you do end up in a reaper farming group, that's slightly better since the full bravery gets applied to the larger base exp and you can go back and do h/n later, but it's not a major difference now that streak doesn't do anything anymore

[Kinerd]

How many classes have you played? When I started out, I hopped servers to get the extra DP to unlock more packs, and also find a guild I wanted to stay loyal to. This also gave me exposure to other classes (many of the free classes can solo) and figure out what playstyle I found most enjoyable.

If you haven't tried bard, they're pretty underrated and also fun. I think it says they are "difficult" to solo, but their dps is acceptable, have some cool crowd control options, and can heal pretty well. You can splash a few rogue levels and have a pretty solid trapper, too (though getting gear would be a challenge on a brand new server).

Part of the fun of this game (imo) is trying out the various classes, so if you've played one class and think you've done all you can, I'd encourage you to try a new build.

imo this needs especial reiterating with the LFG situation as it is these days. in general this game is much easier and much more fun with other players, and a guild you like is by far the best way to make that happen

[TitusOvid]

I can offer you an elite opener on 2 server: Orien, Wayfinder. Make the 100 favor dash. and by some new packs preferably those that are at your level.
The others are right f2p is not that bad and or difficult as you make it out to be.

Cheers,
Titus.

[Gniewomir]

there is a middle ground between running all quests once and six+ times, and i consider that middle ground "pretty easily"

base xp for 20- f2p quests is 219,801
daily 25%
conquest 25%
ransack 15%
no reentry 10%

normal first time 20%
hard first time 20% bravery 50%, and about 7.5% over base
elite first time 45% bravery 50%, and about 15% over base

that adds up to 1.7m with no optionals, wilderness, challenges, daily rolls, any other exp of any kind, a few of those and a few more repeats here and there to make up the last 200k is no problem

first life f2p can't open on reaper anyway, so good old n/h/e is more plausible imo. if you do end up in a reaper farming group, that's slightly better since the full bravery gets applied to the larger base exp and you can go back and do h/n later, but it's not a major difference now that streak doesn't do anything anymore

Paper can handle everything, but i really would like to see you trying it on totally new account, with no access to packs, decent gear etc, when stuff like lvl cap, over level penalties etc matters. Pretty easy to judge without much clue how it looks like, but i really do wonder how much fun you would have trying challange like that and then imagining how someone totally new, kinda confused about game mechanics, without any knowledge about quests etc would feel.

Also silver roll is almost 0 xp (at one server i was rolling only for 20 days, got 4k xp) and last f2p wild is lvl 10 ataraxia, not a great xp i would say. Also challanges, especially house c ones on heroic are like once per year event and i doubt newbie will be able to solo them with more than maybe one or two stars. And after 1st run xp is collapsing like a mad, much more than in quests.

[Coffey]

I'm about to level up again but because of my level there are very few quests left. I've done almost every quest on Normal, Hard, and Elite difficulties.

I could switch servers and start over. That would allow me to gain First-Time DDO points. However that would be tedious with the same class. Other classes would be options but they wouldn't be able to go Solo, making them Dead Ends.

Unlocking new options is important to my interests but grinding to unlock things to grind with is another Dead End

It seems I've run the coarse of Dungeons and Dragons Online.

F2P is really for people to try the game. Some people make a game of playing F2P and slowly add to their content over time. If you always feel like your missing out on something better then F2P is not for you.
The F2P classes are good as people have said and some classes are very strong at soloing. Wizard Pale Master EK for example.

You wont find a more supportive community in any other game especially one as long in the tooth as this one.

A VIP membership pays for a boat load of entertainment compared to anything. Cant go see a friggin movie for the cost of VIP haha!

[SirValentine]

not true.

Really? I suspect it probably is true. I got to level 15 years ago as F2P, when XP bonuses were much smaller, XP permanently decayed for quests, and before any of these additional F2P quests were even in the game:


Diplomatic Impunity 12
Eyes of Stone 12
Frame Work 12
Memoirs of an Illusory Larcener 13
Tower of Frost 14
Disciples of Shar 15
Escape Plan 15
Search and Rescue 15
Lost at Sea 15
Beyond the Rift 16
Servants of the Overlord 16
The Lords of Dust 16
The Spinner of Shadows 16
The Mask of Deception 16
Good Intentions 17

and without running In the Demons Den, which existed already then.

With how much easier XP is to get now, and the vastly wider array of mid- & high-Heroic F2P quests available, getting to 20 really should be pretty straight-forward.

However, OP, ask yourself how much you like DDO. If you're not having much fun, then, yeah, you should quit. If you are having lots of fun, maybe you should consider going Premium and buying some adventure packs. The options are there, it's up to you. I'm not sure what you're really expecting in response to your "question".

[Kinerd]

Paper can handle everything, but i really would like to see you trying it on totally new account, with no access to packs, decent gear etc, when stuff like lvl cap, over level penalties etc matters. Pretty easy to judge without much clue how it looks like, but i really do wonder how much fun you would have trying challange like that and then imagining how someone totally new, kinda confused about game mechanics, without any knowledge about quests etc would feel.

Also silver roll is almost 0 xp (at one server i was rolling only for 20 days, got 4k xp) and last f2p wild is lvl 10 ataraxia, not a great xp i would say. Also challanges, especially house c ones on heroic are like once per year event and i doubt newbie will be able to solo them with more than maybe one or two stars. And after 1st run xp is collapsing like a mad, much more than in quests.

since you ask, when i came back after a 6ish year break recently i started on a totally new server, and once i saw the state of LFGs fired up two other totally new accounts. in my experience the paper is right on the money. i suspect the difference between our experiences is that i was already used to the n/h/e style of running quests since that's what all us plebs used to do, but it's worth stressing that that was one of the VERY few pieces of player experience that still held true. most of the intervening changes had left me nearly as clueless as a new player, so i came here, asked questions, and took it seriously when people gave me answers that didn't match my expectations. i strongly believe that any new player willing to do that will not have a hard time with f2p

the point is not that the other things i mentioned are great xp, the point is that they only have to add up to 200k once per life

[Goalt]

I'll just say two things:
-Buying races and classes is stupid because F2P doesn't even have that many character slots (and newer races cost more, too)
-Don't bother going into epics without epic destinies (I tried, it's a joke since you can only run everything on normal); once you hit 20, that's kind of the end of the road (don't even think about TRs as a F2P, too much xp is required even for a second-lifer; again, speaking from experience)

And let's be realistic, reaper is a joke. How many points do you have?

So if you hit level 10 or so and didn't buy Gianthold/already spent your 500 or so *free* DDO points on something stupid (like Demon Sands or something), then I will say that you are out of luck unless you want to grind your life away (literally).
This is of course assuming you did that 100 favor server thing, which, in some ways, isn't even worth it either
That's Option A, and it is bleak (/hopefully not you).

If you bought a race with those precious points, then rip. Races/classes ain't getting you NOWHERE in this game.

If you didn't buy anything, then I suggest you get Gianthold. It can get you to around 16 or so, and, augmented with the (few) higher level F2P quests, you can reach 20. You can take that from a guy that only had Gianthold when he hit 20 for the first time. Of course, if you can't get Gianthold, then you're kinda screwed unless you grind your eyeballs out. That's (the better/more preferred) Option B.

After that, there's really nothing to do as a F2P except repeat everything again with a reincarnate (which is stupid) or roll up another character (which is stupid because it's still repetition of quests).

If you didn't buy anything yet
I understand how difficult it is to get stuff. Even something as basic as Shan-to-Kor on sale 30% off still means several hours (really, 7 or 8 hours) worth grinding. In other words, for this game, you either waste your life or you waste your money, OR (and the worst) you waste both (I'm talking to those VIPs...). The game is designed this way, just like a rat trap is designed to catch rats. They want your money; to **** with the game's quality.

If you really don't like the game (truly) don't, the Recycle Bin exists for a reason. There's no reason to play this overpriced ***** ** ****. Especially considering how it's 2020 and there are so many other (cheaper) better games out there/that have been out there...

[Chaosticket1]

F2P is really for people to try the game. Some people make a game of playing F2P and slowly add to their content over time. If you always feel like your missing out on something better then F2P is not for you.
The F2P classes are good as people have said and some classes are very strong at soloing. Wizard Pale Master EK for example.



On paper a Pale Master is solidly built, but I cant really do much more than the Tutorial because the WIzard is too easy to kill. That doesnt bode well. Average AC desired at level 1 is 20+ and average +3 more AC every level. Wizard is a major challenge to fix when its broken from the beginning,

I find most classes arent as apt as Cleric as a solo character. It has the best armor, high healing, offensive spells, and is good in melee.

[HungarianRhapsody]

On paper a Pale Master is solidly built, but I cant really do much more than the Tutorial because the WIzard is too easy to kill. That doesnt bode well. Average AC desired at level 1 is 20+ and average +3 more AC every level. Wizard is a major challenge to fix when its broken from the beginning,

I find most classes arent as apt as Cleric as a solo character. It has the best armor, high healing, offensive spells, and is good in melee.
Wizard is super garbage at level 1 and level 2. Just as soon as you hit level 3 it improves a lot and hitting level 5 gives you fireball or the acid version of the same. At that point, you can make pretty much everything die before it can get close enough to hit you. AC doesn’t make as much of a difference if nothing is in melee range because it’s dead.

Cleric is solid. It’s a good class. But Wizard and Sorcerer are also excellent classes and Pale Master in particular is practically immortal on Normal and Hard even with almost no gear once you have Lesser Death Aura and Death Aura. Even before the Pale Master improvements, PM was really solid. After the PM improvements, a Pale Master with decent gear (which you aren’t going to get in F2P quests, sadly) are nearly impossible to kill even in low reaper quests.

[Coffey]

Not all classes start out strong but with a Barbarian and Skele Knight escort early on its really easy. Spam Sonic Blast and let your henchmen take out the trash. You will get much better damage spells and defensive spells as you level with an option to eventually wear heavy armor and a shield through the EK tree if you want. The healing aura is very good even without all the twink gear outside reaper.

Its a good time IMO :cool:

[PsychoBlonde]

free content gets you to 20 pretty easily (snip)

Eh . . . not really. There are fewer and fewer quests and most of the 12-18 f2p quests give absolutely godawful XP and are some of the hardest quests in the game at their level. (No, really, try doing Search and Rescue on a free to play first life character. Or In the Demon's Den.)

If you're doing normal/hard/elite to get all the favor you can, you'll still likely need to do some extra grinding to hit 20. I mean, seriously between levels 12 and 20 quest-wise there are a grand total of 21 free to play quests. 21 quests to get 8 levels ain't much.

It took me 6 lives before I had earned enough packs on my f2p account to go 1-20 just playing quests once and done.

However, one thing you can do that a lot of people forget is that you can get your free Challenge Token every day and RUN CHALLENGES.

I definitely recommend making characters on the other servers and grinding up some favor that way. (Or make another character on the same server.) It's a long process to play the game entirely for free, but unless you've got a friend around who can chip in some guest passes you're better off making additional characters to grind favor at first.

Never, ever, EVER buy packs unless they are on sale. Your points will go MUCH further. Do not buy ANYTHING on the DDO store except adventure packs until you have enough packs to go 1-20 on a third life character without repeating quests. Once you do this, if you still really want to keep playing the game, start doing serial 1-20 reincarnations. Do EVERY SINGLE QUEST YOU HAVE every single life to get favor. The only exception is the the super sale items that are more than 50% off.

If you get a present or something I recommend getting MotU and Shadowfell when they go on sale, as they do periodically. Get the upgraded version that includes several other adventure packs. You can't get those two expansions for free on the DDO store (although you can get Sharn and Ravenloft free if you're willing to grind out 2500 points apiece) and they contain enough quests to get you over the hump.

The biggest chokepoint in playing the game for free is getting enough packs to where you can pull down good favor every life. There's about 1350 free favor available in the game right now IIRC (I'm not going to go add it all up manually). You want to get about to where you can get 3000 per life. It's actually not bad, as quite a few of the packs are dirt cheap and go on sale regularly.

[C-Dog]

There's about 1350 free favor available in the game right now IIRC (I'm not going to go add it all up manually)...
Wiki sez "1,562", and that's a DPL pull so pro'ly pretty accurate.

o https://ddowiki.com/page/Favor#Total_Favor

[SirValentine]

Average AC desired at level 1 is 20+ and average +3 more AC every level.

See, you write this, and I read "I don't grasp the differences between pen-and-paper and DDO". Your AC doesn't matter.

There as a time long ago when it did, but DDO doesn't even use the D20 attack-roll-versus-AC calculation, and hasn't for years. It's graded on a curve. Certain tank build at high level care about their AC, but they have ACs like 500, and use things like +10% AC (not +10 AC, +10 per cent AC!) to get there. If you're caring about your AC on a level 1 Wizard, you're worrying about all the wrong irrelevant things. Any theoretical difference in your survival is too small to notice.

[Lonnbeimnech]

Wiki sez "1,562", and that's a DPL pull so pro'ly pretty accurate.

o https://ddowiki.com/page/Favor#Total_Favor

this includes 6 stars on all challenges, and ee completions of epic hound, epic tempests spine, brothers of the forge, and study in sable

it would be easier/faster to run to 1000 favor on 3 different f2p toons, that to try to get to 1500 once

[Kinerd]

Eh . . . not really. There are fewer and fewer quests and most of the 12-18 f2p quests give absolutely godawful XP and are some of the hardest quests in the game at their level. (No, really, try doing Search and Rescue on a free to play first life character. Or In the Demon's Den.)

If you're doing normal/hard/elite to get all the favor you can, you'll still likely need to do some extra grinding to hit 20. I mean, seriously between levels 12 and 20 quest-wise there are a grand total of 21 free to play quests. 21 quests to get 8 levels ain't much.

It took me 6 lives before I had earned enough packs on my f2p account to go 1-20 just playing quests once and done.

i did try Search and Rescue on a free to play first life character having never touched it before, and while it took me an hour i got it done. this would have been terrible xp/min even back in the early 10s, but i'm not talking about xp/min, just xp. Demon's Den of course has an explicit anti soloing mechanic on elite (and arguably hard) but other than that i don't consider it that challenging at level, the crowds are small and the boss is slow. i assume it's very challenging for a melee, of course, but that's because melee is in a terrible state right now. a pale trapper makes short work of it

i agree that the number of high level f2p quests is small and that there are not enough f2p quests to go 1-20 with one and done. i disagree that these are relevant to my statement, which looks directly at xp granted and needed and calculates that 3x just about gets the job done

i agree on your other points, although i would stress again that it's useful to have one high level character at all times

[Kinerd]

On paper a Pale Master is solidly built, but I cant really do much more than the Tutorial because the WIzard is too easy to kill. That doesnt bode well. Average AC desired at level 1 is 20+ and average +3 more AC every level. Wizard is a major challenge to fix when its broken from the beginning,

I find most classes arent as apt as Cleric as a solo character. It has the best armor, high healing, offensive spells, and is good in melee.

when we first learn to walk, it is much less efficient than crawling. it would be an error to conclude from that that walking will always be less efficient than crawling

wizards have dramatically better offensive spells than cleric, and dramatically better defenses because immunities, incorporeality, concealment, dodge, PRR, and MRR are more important than AC. wizard self-healing while inferior to a cleric's is more than sufficient and functions as additional offense in most cases.

additionally, a wizard has dramatically better synergy with a rogue splash than a cleric due to being Intelligence-based (helps both trapping skills and Reflex save with the Insightful Reflexes feat), which makes it dramatically easier for a wizard/rogue to handle traps - a significant source of both dungeon challenge and bonus experience

i haven't crunched the numbers on which is better in casual melee because neither is good and both can contribute, but given everything else clearly the wizard is the superior soloer even if we concede the point

[Faltout]

Alright. I know that you're probably going to dismiss what I say because for some reason you seem to want to prove that you're screwed.

Given that you are a Pale Master, there are certain tactics you should use. Completing content on Elite+ Difficulty Solo with a Pale Master is very hard. Some players love that kind of challenge, but I get that you're not one of those players. You should complete quests up to Hard and then complete Elite at CR+3 or CR+4 with a hireling. If a quest is too tough even for that strategy (Tempest's Spine, Mired in Kobolds, Memoirs of an Illusory Larcener, Tower of Frost, Search and Rescue, Good Intentions, Lost at Sea, In the Demon's Den), then either don't do it on elite or wait until much later and just do it for favor. If you are having trouble with some quests, then look them up in the wiki and see what to expect or strategies for making them easier.

As a Pale Master, your basic class abilities are:
- The summoned Skeletal Knight. He will have STR to pull STR levers in quests. He will be your tank. When you encounter monsters, you should buff your skellie with blur, heroism and such and order him to attack first. While the monsters are busy with your skellie, you can cast spells from far or on while on top of the monsters (neg energy burst).
- Your necrotic SLAs. They are cheap, can be empowered/maximized/quickened/enlarged for free and do a lot of damage if the monsters don't have deathward cast on them or are undead.
- Your DC casting. Instant Death spells like Circle of Death, Undeath to Death, Finger of Death, Wail of the Banshee. Crowd control spells like Fear, Scare, Command Undead, Ghoul Touch, Halt Undead. Use those to eliminate the serious threats like a brute champion (low will save) or a dangerous caster (low fort save) or hordes of undead (where your damage spells don't work).

Keep a few spells from the Archmage tree (like Arcane Bolt) and from your spell list that are cheap and do straight damage to undead and death warded enemies. Scorching Ray is the usual choice.

As for quests:
Reaching level 10 is pretty easy because there are at least 5 quests per level (for levels 1-8). Doing each of them 3 times (on normal and hard) with optionals is more than enough xp needed to progress though each level. There is only 1 level 9 and 3 level 10 easy free quests. This means that to progress you need to start repeating quests till you reach level 12.

Fortunately, you have already accumulated 782 favor. If you do some level 11 quests on Normal, you should reach 800 favor. At 800 favor, you have earned 350 DP to spend. The Necropolis Part 3 adventure pack costs 350 DP and is levels 11-12. The Necro quests are pretty good xp which will push you to level 15 easily (there are also enough free level 11 and level 12 quests for that). At level 15, you have to start doing level 15 quests and level 16 quests to level up to 16 and 17. This is where you reach another impass as there is 1 level 17, 1 level 18, 0 level 19 free quests and even those 2 quests are very hard to do.

At this point, you have accumulated only 1307 favor and another 125 DP which is not enough for another adventure pack. HOWEVER: Here come challenges to the rescue. By collecting a Free universal challenge token every day you log in, you can accumulate enough and run the challenges in house Cannith as well as in Eveningstar. By reading up on the wiki and maximizing your xp from those challenges, you'll reach level 20 without the need to do more quests.

After getting to level 20, you need to repeat the quests Lords of Dust, Servants of the Overlord, Spinner of Shadows as well as epic cannith challenges to get 20 tokens of the twelve and reincarnate. Each of the quests provides 1 token on Epic Elite. The challenges provide 1 token per 300 epic ingredients (so certain challenges that net more ingredients should provide more than 1 token per run).

The above is the minimum-grind pure way to do it. However, you can easily get 100 favor on each server with a barbarian build for a total of 875 extra points. Those are enough to purchase 2 more packs or 1 better pack that you like or see groups running it or has loot you're interested in. There are also sales in the DDO Store. Getting the Necro III adventure pack on 20% sale will leave you with 200 points (after challenges) with which you can purchase another 250 point pack at 20% sale (like Reaver's Reach). If you combine sales and the 100 favor grind, the options are limitless. You can get any pack (except the expansions) or multiple packs depending on what you feel like.

And after TR what? Ok, let's say you manage to perform a True Reincarnation. You now have 34 points to build, you have a past life, you have knowledge of the game, you have all your previous gear. You are basically stronger. But for what purpose? Did you become stronger to run all the way up to 20 again more efficiently and quickly? Just so you can feel stronger? The truth is that you get about 1600 favor per life meaning 400 DP per life. Each pack you purchase will add 50-100 favor or 0-25 DP per life. This means that you will run the same quests over and over again with the addition of a new adventure pack every life. Let me tell you, it's not enough to keep you entertained (not to mention that you will need extra storage space so you'll eventually get some shared bank space instead of an adventure pack). To full entertainment value of the game is in the content (adventure packs), builds (classes/races/equipment) and parties (strategies/random events). If you don't engage in builds and parties, then free will not be enough for you. That's why people have been advising that you roll another character or multiple characters in multiple servers.

TL;DR: Getting to level 20 as free to play is possible without much grind (the only grind being challenges - which I don't really consider grind) if you buy the correct adventure pack(s) and complete quests up to elite (so need a party or good solo strategies). After that however, you need to find another source of entertainment in the game as 0-1 adventure pack per life is not going to cut it.

[C-Dog]

See, you write this, and I read "I don't grasp the differences between pen-and-paper and DDO".
He doesn't - and he adamantly refuses to.

As Faltout points out, the OP would rather bask in the attention of "poor him" than actually understand the game. He's had more than a couple threads like this - all are full of good advice which the OP aggressively ignores or tries to argue with from a pure "D&D" point of view. I've given up (at least for now). <shrug>

[Chaosticket1]

Alright. I know that you're probably going to dismiss what I say because for some reason you seem to want to prove that you're screwed.

Given that you are a Pale Master, there are certain tactics you should use. Completing content on Elite+ Difficulty Solo with a Pale Master is very hard. Some players love that kind of challenge, but I get that you're not one of those players. You should complete quests up to Hard and then complete Elite at CR+3 or CR+4 with a hireling. If a quest is too tough even for that strategy (Tempest's Spine, Mired in Kobolds, Memoirs of an Illusory Larcener, Tower of Frost, Search and Rescue, Good Intentions, Lost at Sea, In the Demon's Den), then either don't do it on elite or wait until much later and just do it for favor. If you are having trouble with some quests, then look them up in the wiki and see what to expect or strategies for making them easier.

As a Pale Master, your basic class abilities are:
- The summoned Skeletal Knight. He will have STR to pull STR levers in quests. He will be your tank. When you encounter monsters, you should buff your skellie with blur, heroism and such and order him to attack first. While the monsters are busy with your skellie, you can cast spells from far or on while on top of the monsters (neg energy burst).
- Your necrotic SLAs. They are cheap, can be empowered/maximized/quickened/enlarged for free and do a lot of damage if the monsters don't have deathward cast on them or are undead.
- Your DC casting. Instant Death spells like Circle of Death, Undeath to Death, Finger of Death, Wail of the Banshee. Crowd control spells like Fear, Scare, Command Undead, Ghoul Touch, Halt Undead. Use those to eliminate the serious threats like a brute champion (low will save) or a dangerous caster (low fort save) or hordes of undead (where your damage spells don't work).

Keep a few spells from the Archmage tree (like Arcane Bolt) and from your spell list that are cheap and do straight damage to undead and death warded enemies. Scorching Ray is the usual choice.


Best advice Ive gotten.

I worked out my problem and it was the same problem as I had before, thinking too long term. A huge chunk of my problem with the Cleric was that I was hoarding Action Points until level 11. I had practically no offense. Now I went a 180 and actually been very attentive to how useful offensive SLAs can be.

I missed out that a basic solution to a Wizard was to use a simple Shield spell+Masters Touch to use a Great Axe and raise my AC. Start putting in some points to get Proficiencies from the Eldritch Knight tree and that actually has big benefits like more Hit Points. I just didnt think I would need to pick up a Enhancement Build at level 1.

What would you recommend as Archmage specialization?

Are Negative Energy Area spells the only way the Pale Master can heal itself?

[Kinerd]

Best advice Ive gotten.

I worked out my problem and it was the same problem as I had before, thinking too long term. A huge chunk of my problem with the Cleric was that I was hoarding Action Points until level 11. I had practically no offense. Now I went a 180 and actually been very attentive to how useful offensive SLAs can be.

I missed out that a basic solution to a Wizard was to use a simple Shield spell+Masters Touch to use a Great Axe and raise my AC. Start putting in some points to get Proficiencies from the Eldritch Knight tree and that actually has big benefits like more Hit Points. I just didnt think I would need to pick up a Enhancement Build at level 1.

What would you recommend as Archmage specialization?

Are Negative Energy Area spells the only way the Pale Master can heal itself?

pale master can heal with positive energy or negative energy

the native negative energy spells that can be used for self-healing in a wizard's spell book are L2 Lesser Death Aura and L4 Death Aura and Negative Energy Burst

if you stay pure, 20 wiz can also get Greater Death Aura as an SLA

generally speaking for a solo build i would recommend no Archmage specialization at all: PM and EK offer more than enough to take up all your AP

[Chaosticket1]

Wizard doesnt have any Positive Energy spells to heal itself. I understood that a big part of why Pale Master can work it because it can stack abilities to have Negative Healing and combine that with Negative Damage spells so that you can Heal yourself through spells, in theory all the way up to 128%. Its a roundabout way to do things, but still its important to be able to heal yourself.

I just dont know if you can cast Necrotic Touch SLA on yourself or not. If you can use Necro SLAs on yourself, you have a damage and heal spell all in one for a low cost. Regular spells are too costly. Negative Energy Burst costs 25 points and can be used until Wizard level 7. It would be drastically less powerful and/or costly to use than an SLA.

"Keep a few spells from the Archmage tree (like Arcane Bolt) and from your spell list that are cheap and do straight damage to undead and death warded enemies. Scorching Ray is the usual choice."

An Archmage is good for a few points at least. Arcane Bolt requires at least 10 points in the Archmage tree, but having a Non-Negative Energy SLA would improve versatility by a lot. Undead enemies are healed by a Pale Master's attacks, so need to have something else.

[TrinityTurtle]

Wizard doesnt have any Positive Energy spells to heal itself. I understood that a big part of why Pale Master can work it because it can stack abilities to have Negative Healing and combine that with Negative Damage spells so that you can Heal yourself through spells, in theory all the way up to 128%. Its a roundabout way to do things, but still its important to be able to heal yourself.
.

Character spells aren't the only source of magic. Scrolls and wands (both will need umd skills to use as they are native to clerics, but it can be done, my wizard can use heal scrolls), potions, and hirelings are all sources of positive healing available to you.

[cru121]

Are Negative Energy Area spells the only way the Pale Master can heal itself?
In addition to the auras and the negative energy burst, you can purchase Inflict Serious Wounds potions. The wiki has a list of shops where those are available.

[Kinerd]

Wizard doesnt have any Positive Energy spells to heal itself. I understood that a big part of why Pale Master can work it because it can stack abilities to have Negative Healing and combine that with Negative Damage spells so that you can Heal yourself through spells, in theory all the way up to 128%. Its a roundabout way to do things, but still its important to be able to heal yourself.

I just dont know if you can cast Necrotic Touch SLA on yourself or not. If you can use Necro SLAs on yourself, you have a damage and heal spell all in one for a low cost. Regular spells are too costly. Negative Energy Burst costs 25 points and can be used until Wizard level 7. It would be drastically less powerful and/or costly to use than an SLA.

"Keep a few spells from the Archmage tree (like Arcane Bolt) and from your spell list that are cheap and do straight damage to undead and death warded enemies. Scorching Ray is the usual choice."

An Archmage is good for a few points at least. Arcane Bolt requires at least 10 points in the Archmage tree, but having a Non-Negative Energy SLA would improve versatility by a lot. Undead enemies are healed by a Pale Master's attacks, so need to have something else.

i don't know what to tell you, just try out extended Death Aura and max/quick Negative Energy Burst for yourself. we're not trying to trick you, it works

in my experience you're much better off putting points into EK than AM if you're looking for cheap alternative damage - 20d6 for 4 SP is nice, but 6d12 for 0 SP is even better. for undead in particular Wall of Fire is usually an excellent choice

[Faltout]

i don't know what to tell you, just try out extended Death Aura and max/quick Negative Energy Burst for yourself. we're not trying to trick you, it works

in my experience you're much better off putting points into EK than AM if you're looking for cheap alternative damage - 20d6 for 4 SP is nice, but 6d12 for 0 SP is even better. for undead in particular Wall of Fire is usually an excellent choice
C'mon. 6d12 is not cheap alternative damage. It's a level 20 wizard with the EK capstone (41+ AP) using weapon attacks. The OP is first life pale master, not a combat pro EK.

[Kinerd]

C'mon. 6d12 is not cheap alternative damage. It's a level 20 wizard with the EK capstone (41+ AP) using weapon attacks. The OP is first life pale master, not a combat pro EK.

given my experiences with a first life PM/EK on a fresh account, i stand by what i said

but if they want PM T5/capstone, go ahead. 6d10 for 0 SP is still a great deal

[pSINNa]

Just as an aside, I don't think anyone else has mentioned this yet.

Playing a WarForged Wizard is massively solo friendly - wizards have access to the full spread of repair spells for self healing on a warforged - reconstruct scrolls are a top source of cheap self healing without dipping into your spell pool.

The immunities that come with warforged remove a lot of problems for the solo player - even small things like swimming.

At lower levels you can easily stay on top of staying alive, and there is added constitution for warforged in the racial tree, and 1 point enhancement spend to remove your arcane failure, and no negative to your initial rollout on intelligence.

Later in the piece as your negative spell abilities start to gain in strength you can start to use your various undead forms to self heal - it's also very convenient to drop form when confronted with divine enemies that use a lot of light based spells and resort to your reconstruct and repair spells till they are dealt with - avoids those huge damage chunks from a wight priest champion going beserk on light damage.

When knocking out Sorcerer lives I'll sometimes go warforged and just take the 1 dc hit to charisma for the convenience of self healing without problems. It can be worth it.

And yes, masters touch and a carnifex are a great way to spread your spell points, web is one of the best spells in game for a wizard, web them up, grab your axe, and beat the helpless fools to mulch.

Lots of ways to learn to make the enemy helpless and then beat them into the ground saving your top damage for end fights and not burning it out on long dungeons full of trash mobs.

Have fun.

Coit out :)

Almost forgot - if you have been doing Cleric past lives - that's a plus to conjuration - and web is a conjuration DC - cleric lives + web = win , hehehe.

[Chaosticket1]

The suggestion of a Warforged is something Ive heard about before, researched, and I agree its a solid idea. Being able to cast Repair spells to heal yourself is the kind of character self-sufficiency I am aiming for. Unfortunately the Warforged race costs about 1000 DDO points.

[Coffey]

The suggestion of a Warforged is something Ive heard about before, researched, and I agree its a solid idea. Being able to cast Repair spells to heal yourself is the kind of character self-sufficiency I am aiming for. Unfortunately the Warforged race costs about 1000 DDO points.

How about a Barby build? Very survivable and probably different from P&P by now.

[PsychoBlonde]

Wiki sez "1,562", and that's a DPL pull so pro'ly pretty accurate.

o https://ddowiki.com/page/Favor#Total_Favor

A fair bit of that is in quests that you won't be able to do like Brothers of the Forge or A Study in Sable or Legendary Tempest Spine, tho. But I think that list also doesn't include challenges, which are only "sorta" free.

[PsychoBlonde]

The suggestion of a Warforged is something Ive heard about before, researched, and I agree its a solid idea. Being able to cast Repair spells to heal yourself is the kind of character self-sufficiency I am aiming for. Unfortunately the Warforged race costs about 1000 DDO points.

1500. All of the races are expensive.

[Matuse]

1500. All of the races are expensive.

That's Bladeforged (at 1295). Warforged are 995.

[Faltout]

A fair bit of that is in quests that you won't be able to do like Brothers of the Forge or A Study in Sable or Legendary Tempest Spine, tho. But I think that list also doesn't include challenges, which are only "sorta" free.
The number displayed does include challenges and as long as the quest pages have the correct favor listed, this number will be always up to date.

[Kinerd]

The suggestion of a Warforged is something Ive heard about before, researched, and I agree its a solid idea. Being able to cast Repair spells to heal yourself is the kind of character self-sufficiency I am aiming for. Unfortunately the Warforged race costs about 1000 DDO points.

fortunately you can get even more immunities and even better self-healing on any race by going Pale Master, which costs 0 DDO points :D

[Chaosticket1]

Im still a newb trying to figure out how to beat the system of slowed momentum.

Right now each Dungeon takes 45-60 minutes and the result is 3-5% Experience Points of necessary to level up. Ransack penalties are harsh because of the limited selection of quests.
Cannith Crafting seems virtually useless. Would have to grind down thousands of items to level it up.

Unlocking permanent upgrades is likely not going to happen. #1 and #2 goals are still to unlock Artificier and Druid.

Im not even level 20 and already I have to find anti-grind strategies.

[AlmGhandi]

Im still a newb trying to figure out how to beat the system of slowed momentum.


The executive producer has posted a letter on the forums.
That thread is probably going to be the "hot sauce" on the forums for the next 24hrs or so... with dev attention etc.
Maybe post your questions there?

[Faltout]

Im still a newb trying to figure out how to beat the system of slowed momentum.

Right now each Dungeon takes 45-60 minutes and the result is 3-5% Experience Points of necessary to level up. Ransack penalties are harsh because of the limited selection of quests.
Cannith Crafting seems virtually useless. Would have to grind down thousands of items to level it up.

Unlocking permanent upgrades is likely not going to happen. #1 and #2 goals are still to unlock Artificier and Druid.

Im not even level 20 and already I have to find anti-grind strategies.

What level are you?

[AlmGhandi]

What level are you?

If there is a bright centre to the universe... he is the level that is farthest from it.

[Matuse]

Right now each Dungeon takes 45-60 minutes and the result is 3-5% Experience Points of necessary to level up.

Then you're doing it wrong. It does not take 20 dungeons to level up early on, even doing them on Normal.


Ransack penalties are harsh because of the limited selection of quests.

Ransack only applies to optional XP and chests and requires re-running that quest a LOT.


Cannith Crafting seems virtually useless.

It's not.


Would have to grind down thousands of items to level it up.

You do.


Unlocking permanent upgrades is likely not going to happen. #1 and #2 goals are still to unlock Artificier and Druid.

Being paid classes does not make them better. You are looking for a panacea where it doesn't exist. The power is in the build and the player, not the class.

You want anti-grind, but you are aiming for classes instead of adventure packs. And you've been told repeatedly that this is a terrible idea. You have no-one to blame but yourself for your decisions.

[Katalissa]

On paper a Pale Master is solidly built, but I cant really do much more than the Tutorial because the WIzard is too easy to kill. That doesnt bode well ... I find most classes arent as apt as Cleric as a solo character. It has the best armor, high healing, offensive spells, and is good in melee.

Sshhh! Don't tell Katalissa... she THINKS she got past Korthos as a wizard! Really, she's dead and Stormreach is all a hellish nightmare!

But seriously, there are many classes that can solo well. A wizard EK/PM combo is one. Sorc is another, esp EK plus one element. If you play halfling you can also get self-healing via dragonmark. Splash 2 rogue and you can handle all the traps and secret doors too! Bard can also be a good solo class, at least from my limited experience with it - you get access to healing spells and buffs.

As far as levelling, I remember the first packs I ever bought were Reaver's Reach and Path of Inspiration, so I'd got to something like level 17 by that point! Now I admit, a few times someone was nice enough to give me a pass to some packs, so I got a bit of extra XP that way, BUT there was a lot of soloing, mostly on normal because that was all I could handle solo at the time... and yes it was a wizard, well, 3 rogue/17 wiz halfling (don't ask).

However, ftp isn't meant to give you everything. I'm actually amazed how much free content this game has, BUT at some point, if you like it, its worth dropping even $20 for some points and purchase more content - adventure packs, mind, NOT classes or races.

[Katalissa]

...I was hoarding Action Points until level 11. I had practically no offense. ...I just didnt think I would need to pick up a Enhancement Build at level 1.
Are Negative Energy Area spells the only way the Pale Master can heal itself?

:p There's no reason to hoard action points. The game expects you to have them mostly spent for each level. You can easily re-set the trees and spend points differently for a relatively small fee - its not like you are locked in for good.

Pale Masters now heal from positive energy too, but only half of the normal amount. This is a fairly recent change, mind.

Good luck with it! ;)

[Ausdoerrt]

1. On F2P - if you're not buying adventure packs, then you're doing it wrong. Research which ones are first priority to get (there's a guide in a forum thread on that), and focus on that. There are a plenty of good classes to play for free, and all free races are more than enough. Packs will give you more XP and more favor which you can buy more packs and so on.

1.1. Take part in point giveaways.

1.2. If you like the game, drop some money on it. Wait for a double points sale, then wait for an adventure pack sale. This way you'll maximize your value. Basic stuff (enough to get you up to speed) isn't that expensive, and you'll be accumulating points with favor a lot faster after the initial boost.

2. On palemaster - the two death auras (which can be stacked) are usually more than enough to keep you up (use Maximize metamagic). Negative Energy burst is allright for quick heals.

2.1. AC has meant nothing in DDO for almost 10 years now. Focus on dodge / incorporeal, instead, which give you a flat% to avoid all damage. As a wizard, you have access to great spells like Blur and Displacement, which will do wonders for survivability.

2.2. As a PM you shouldn't get hit, because you shouldn't be in range for getting hit. If there are melees on you, run away and kite while throwing spells. You also have access to great CC spells like Web. Use them. If they aren't landing, get the Heighten metamagic feat.

2.3. PM is overall much better for soloing and stronger than Cleric or FvS. It is, however, a bit harder to learn and build properly. Cleric / FvS are primary healers, so they don't get nearly as much power in terms of spells, be it for damage or insta-kills.


Happy hunting!