A Sneak Peak at Alchemist, with Steelstar!

[Strimtom]

Hello everyone. My name is Strimtom. You may remember from such build guides as Archers, an introduction to mechanics (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/469213-quot-Strimtom-s-Acid-Arrow-quot-Maximum-Bow-DPS-F2P-new-player-Friendly) and Motors and springsockets, how to move your experience meter. (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/479583-quot-The-Maverick-Hunter-quot-a-guide-to-melee-Artificer)

I sat down with Steelstar to go through all the alchemist details we could talk about, and then put it into a video format for all you wonderful souls to enjoy!


https://youtu.be/bKeJ_bMAgDk

A big, BIG shout out to SSG for taking the time to record this with me. It was good fun and I enjoyed mucking around with the alchemist while I could.

I hope you are all as excited for U45 as I am!

[Mofus]

Saw the interview on youtube, looks like it will be an interesting class. Thanks for the upload.

[Arkat]

Saw the interview on youtube, looks like it will be an interesting class.

Saw the video, just not seeing how this new class will be in any way interesting.

[Memnir]

Not watching the video or reading too much about them until release notes... but cautiously hopeful; even if I can't be overly optimistic.

[cru121]

So I added some quick notes to the wiki:
https://ddowiki.com/page/Alchemist_(speculation)

[Oliphant]

I feel like I just lost at three card molly to the wizard of oz...

[droid327]

Tldw: vile chemist is a poison ek with bonuses to simple weapons including xbow, it'll be the new inqui meta. Evasion, int to reflex and int to will, ranged bonus feats, cc and self heals mmm

Interesting to see how it'll play with 11 alch 7 wiz 2 arti - all int class, pm and poison both scale on neg power.

Or if the whole thing is doa with so many poison immune mobs ie undead...

[janave]

Tldw: vile chemist is a poison ek with bonuses to simple weapons including xbow, it'll be the new inqui meta. Evasion, int to reflex and int to will, ranged bonus feats, cc and self heals mmm



Lol, kinda predicted this, but im still interested in the other 2 trees :).

[Ordinary]

I sat down with Steelstar to go through all the alchemist details we could talk about, and then put it into a video format for all you wonderful souls to enjoy!
A big, BIG shout out to SSG for taking the time to record this with me. It was good fun and I enjoyed mucking around with the alchemist while I could.
I hope you are all as excited for U45 as I am!
I watched through it and extract as much info as I could for my character planner. Thank you for that.

Hopefully have a release supporting Alchemist end of this week, as long as I get time to generate those enhancement trees and effects.
Will be on Lamannia Tuesday (14th)/Wednesday (15th) collecting data on my HC character "Ord-1" if you want to say Hi.

[MaeveTuohy]

It concerns me that the class gets evasion.

First, it doesn't really make any sense that a lab rat would be trained in the dodge and weave antics that rogues, rangers and monks specialize in.

Second, it suggests that SSG don't know how to make builds survivable without either heavy armour or evasion (or being distance casters).

[goldgolem]

Any news on the past life bonuses?

[droid327]

It concerns me that the class gets evasion.

First, it doesn't really make any sense that a lab rat would be trained in the dodge and weave antics that rogues, rangers and monks specialize in.

Second, it suggests that SSG don't know how to make builds survivable without either heavy armour or evasion (or being distance casters).

They're not trained, they quaff a potion that makes them magically dodgy

And that's a little unfair - those ARE the two main ways to passively defend against magic right now, either Evasion or MRR. How else would you suggest they boost survivability outside those two mechanics?

[SpartanKiller13]

So who's looking at Nightforge Spike? (https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Nightforge_Spike)

Assuming hits on 2+ which isn't exactly reasonable:

16-20/x3 Base
15-20/x3 Improved Critical
11-20/x4 Swashbuckler (+4/1 via ICrit)
10-20/x4 Vile Chemist T5
9-20/x4 Celestial Champion

+1 on 19-20 Overwhelming Critical

(1x0 + 7x1 + 10x4 + 2x5)/20 = 2.85 average crit multiplier, and now you have 30+ AP in a useful tree (compared to FB T5).

With another bonus with the simple weapons mastery feat; I'm assuming it's +1 to crit multiplier probably, given the new tree's T5 is threat range.

(1x0 + 7x1 + 10x5 + 2x6)/20 = 3.35 average crit multiplier.

I think that could make it better at 30 than even Twisted Missile (https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legendary_Twisted_Missile).

It's weird to consider that any random +1 range bonus is better than SB's T5 in this narrow case...


It concerns me that the class gets evasion.

Insightful Reflexes + Evasion for free sounds pretty strong. Also Int to Fort or Will as a bonus? Hmmm.

[droid327]

With another bonus with the simple weapons mastery feat; I'm assuming it's +1 to crit multiplier probably, given the new tree's T5 is threat range.



No I expect Simple Thrower Expertise to be a copy of Shuriken Expertise - chance to throw additional Simple Throwing Weapons based on ?INT

Also what makes you think VC crit boosts will stack with Swash?

[Steelstar]

It concerns me that the class gets evasion.

First, it doesn't really make any sense that a lab rat would be trained in the dodge and weave antics that rogues, rangers and monks specialize in.

Second, it suggests that SSG don't know how to make builds survivable without either heavy armour or evasion (or being distance casters).


They're not trained, they quaff a potion that makes them magically dodgy

And that's a little unfair - those ARE the two main ways to passively defend against magic right now, either Evasion or MRR. How else would you suggest they boost survivability outside those two mechanics?

They also get it much later than most classes, and don't get it automatically; it takes a class feat slot.

[droid327]

They also get it much later than most classes, and don't get it automatically; it takes a class feat slot.

Well...that's only an opportunity cost if there's a meaningful tradeoff...which I guess we'll see later what the other class feats are at that level, but if Evasion is the only obvious first one to take once it becomes available, then it might as well just be an auto-grant. Sounds like Alch wont be feat-starved though, especially since it naturally pairs with other INT classes like Wiz and Arti that *also* get bonus feats and/or autogrants.

[Saekee]

They're not trained, they quaff a potion that makes them magically dodgy

And that's a little unfair - those ARE the two main ways to passively defend against magic right now, either Evasion or MRR. How else would you suggest they boost survivability outside those two mechanics?
maybe quaff a potion that temporarily increases MRR cap or something instead of evasion?

I haven’t studied this in depth enough though to fully offer my oft-ignored depths of wisdom

[HungarianRhapsody]

They're not trained, they quaff a potion that makes them magically dodgy

And that's a little unfair - those ARE the two main ways to passively defend against magic right now, either Evasion or MRR. How else would you suggest they boost survivability outside those two mechanics?

They could be like the rest of us and NOT have enormous survivability.

Like Wizards, Sorcerers, non-bear Druids, etc.

[droid327]

They could be like the rest of us and NOT have enormous survivability.

Like Wizards, Sorcerers, non-bear Druids, etc.

Wiz, Sorc, and Druid all have options for Medium armor, which gives them access to uncapped MRR, and the corresponding ASF reduction.

Alchemist, it sounds, was designed to be a totally unarmored caster, so it has zero options/support for armor. You need to give them something, even if its something most pure-caster builds might not end up taking. The only other option would be like Saekee says, to give them arbitrarily increased MRR cap in Robes. But then you run into a balance issue with taking an Evasion class splash AND having a higher MRR cap, unless the MRR cap somehow made you Encumbered or something - but it gets trickier than just aligning Alch with the existing unarmored archetype.

[SpartanKiller13]

No I expect Simple Thrower Expertise to be a copy of Shuriken Expertise - chance to throw additional Simple Throwing Weapons based on ?INT

Also what makes you think VC crit boosts will stack with Swash?

In the video it was called out as being a stacking bonus. I could be misinterpreting that, but frankly aside from NFSpike it wouldn't be very unbalanced for it to fully stack. It's just that NFSpike has +4/+1 crit profile compared to a standard dart lol.

[J1NG]

maybe quaff a potion that temporarily increases MRR cap or something instead of evasion?

The problem with MRR appears that the Devs when they created the system, never thought of having anything that can temporarily up the cap and that any boosts do not exceed any cap in place. This was why so many abilities, like A Scattering Of Petals in GMoF, originally came with a MRR increase, but because Monks can only normally get a MRR cap of 50, and can't be increased, this never worked. If the ability to allow MRR increase was originally put into the system already, that would never have been an issue and we'd have MRR boosts that tempoarily ignore the cap. But no. That's not the case.

Therefore, I surmise that it's not the Devs can't make a portion that increases MRR cap, only they can't make one that is temporary without further work they don't want to do.

J1NG

[Steelstar]

Therefore, I surmise that it's not the Devs can't make a portion that increases MRR cap, only they can't make one that is temporary without further work they don't want to do.

J1NG

We can! We just largely haven't, for balance reasons.

[Grugmak]

They also get it much later than most classes, and don't get it automatically; it takes a class feat slot.

It makes perfect sense for them to get evasion as well as intel to reflex saves. Think of it this way, they are an experimental chemist they've probably blown themselves up a time or two and if you've ever had a really good chemistry teacher (the kind missing a finger or two) you will notice they're a bit jumpy and have quick reflexes because they learned from that experience.

[J1NG]

We can! We just largely haven't, for balance reasons.

"Interesting"...

J1NG

[FuzzyDuck81]

It makes perfect sense for them to get evasion as well as intel to reflex saves. Think of it this way, they are an experimental chemist they've probably blown themselves up a time or two and if you've ever had a really good chemistry teacher (the kind missing a finger or two) you will notice they're a bit jumpy and have quick reflexes because they learned from that experience.

Precisely my thoughts on it :)

https://media.tenor.com/images/d39adacafa19c46ca8a442c0c4c620da/tenor.png

[Cordovan]

Just wanted to say thanks to Strimtom for putting this together, as I think it turned out well, and should provide a good systems primer on alchemist as we head into our first preview today. Good timing!

[slarden]

You may remember from ...

The most epic killing of a quest-mate ever?

Thank for posting this and all the work you do for the community!

[TedSandyman]

Saw the video, just not seeing how this new class will be in any way interesting.

It will be overpowered and that will make it interesting to most.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

It concerns me that the class gets evasion.

First, it doesn't really make any sense that a lab rat would be trained in the dodge and weave antics that rogues, rangers and monks specialize in.


So, if he lets his flask filled with an unspeakable poison slip, he should stand still and get fully hit witn that dangerous poison ?

It's as if you would demand that any lab rat shouldn't try to dodge a falling vessel of nitic acid.


It makes perfect sense for them to get evasion as well as intel to reflex saves. Think of it this way, they are an experimental chemist they've probably blown themselves up a time or two and if you've ever had a really good chemistry teacher (the kind missing a finger or two) you will notice they're a bit jumpy and have quick reflexes because they learned from that experience.


I fully agree to that.

[MaeveTuohy]

They're not trained, they quaff a potion that makes them magically dodgy

And that's a little unfair - those ARE the two main ways to passively defend against magic right now, either Evasion or MRR. How else would you suggest they boost survivability outside those two mechanics?

Do more with medium armour.

Have an artificer-only feat/enhancement that reduces magical damage, but which doesn't erroneously grant them the ability to take less damage from non-magical sources that require reflex saves.

If I had the skill and time I'd make some meme of Oprah in front of D and D archetypes saying "YOU get evasion. And YOU get evasion. And YOU get evasion."

[Arkat]

It will be overpowered and that will make it interesting to most.

You might not be wrong.

[MaeveTuohy]

So, if he lets his flask filled with an unspeakable poison slip, he should stand still and get fully hit witn that dangerous poison ?

It's as if you would demand that any lab rat shouldn't try to dodge a falling vessel of nitic acid.



S/he would get a reflex save like anyone else (without evasion) would, but not take no damage instead of half damage. You know, just like a wizard in a lab or a sorc in a lab.

[Arkat]

S/he would get a reflex save like anyone else (without evasion) would, but not take no damage instead of half damage. You know, just like a wizard in a lab or a sorc in a lab.

Hitler survived Operation Valkyrie so I guess anything's possible. :rolleyes:

[Jerevth]

They're not trained, they quaff a potion that makes them magically dodgy.

It's called Espresso.

This class looks like it will be a challenge to learn: Primers building to Reactions, short lived and long lived effects. Almost like the Monk with its combos.

I think the challenge it would require to learn to be effective would offset the "op"ishness.

I never really like monk- hotbar intensive, don't sneeze while holding a combo end move.

Looking forward to trying this out, though and see if lessons learned were carried forward. It's an immensely monstrous project; Kudos for the hard work and I can't wait to try this out.

I wonder if this will synergize with the rogue assassin poison skill affects.

Thanks guys, much appreciated.

[Josielynn]

Quote Originally Posted by Strimtom View Post: You may remember from ...


The most epic killing of a quest-mate ever?

I was thinking the same thing! He's never going to live that down. :p

[cdbd3rd]

It makes perfect sense for them to get evasion as well as intel to reflex saves. Think of it this way, they are an experimental chemist they've probably blown themselves up a time or two and if you've ever had a really good chemistry teacher (the kind missing a finger or two) you will notice they're a bit jumpy and have quick reflexes because they learned from that experience.

Or had a lab partner who liked jabbing at the dead rodent of dissection with sharp pointy things regardless of where your fingers are...


[OOC: Sorry, Ken. It really was an accident :D ]

[Quikster]

Or had a lab partner who liked jabbing at the dead rodent of dissection with sharp pointy things regardless of where your fingers are...


[OOC: Sorry, Ken. It really was an accident :D ]

Or those of us that work with sharps around people hopped up and fighting. Especially if you work in a moving vehicle. 10 fold if that moving vehicle is an aircraft. Very easy to get poked. Makes you have int to reflex and evasion.

[Pyed-Pyper]

Hey, Alki comes out soon.

Oh, but Inq is 'right where we want it'.

Hmm, that's no good. What do we do?

Nerf Inq, of course.

But, Inq is right where we want it, right?

Idunno. Whaddayou think?

We could dial back some of the power in the tree, maybe half the law damage, drop the doubleshot?

But then you're in repeater territory, that won't work.

What if we apply some nerfs across the board to ranged, but still leave Inq on top of that heap. That way we can say we're fixing melees too.

What about pali?

Pfft. I dunno, give them a ranged weapon, whatever. It's not like 'paladin' evokes an iconic image or anything.

Genius!

[high fives all around]

[Fenrisulven7]

I think some of you are too wrapped around the axle on the meta and balancing.

It sounds like it will be a fun new twist on spellcasting.

[tafla421]

if the comments im reading are accurate then either a lot more classes need options for pure build evasion or it needs to be removed from alchemist. it doesn't make sense for an alchemist to have evasion through a class feat while artificiers only get it from multiclassing or being forced to use shadow dancer. all this talk of alchemists being used to lab explosions and such well guess what artificiers should be used to their constructs blowing up their faces too. they also know traps so combined with their intellect they should know where to safely step through a traps killing field.

[Kutalp]

Dear developers what would you think about adding a new optional enhancement tree to Alchemist that boosts:


+%100 hitpoints, extra extra prr/mrr,

+%50 glancing damage and x2 threat to big weapons and +%50 reach to Two handed fighting style,

+%30 movement speed, +%50 dodge and reflex saves while wearing light and cloth armors. +%100 Healing amplification.

Timed +%50 bonus to all saves with coooldown at level 12+

Ghostly, displaced effect top all of these.

+%50 bonus to all social skills and trapping skills. Intimidate/Bluff as Hyde. Diplomacy/Bluff as Jekyll.

0 Aggression when the character goes Sneak mode.

+%20 speed and damage with Brutal throw and quickdraw free feats with cooldown.

aswell as free THF line at this special Alchemist only enhancement tree.

Improved Killer and Improved feint effect as long as you get a kill. (Works on Champions and Bosses)

But, only when you are a Melee based Str/Int Alchemist. (Then actuall old warrior melee classes can have their extra applications aswell)


https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ8WqFX5WJKB_68U9TqMGWNxouqXet3h 1DJ3DRzEri1HAvJ3SFq&s

Ha ha !

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f3/22/81/f322818c37ea4be395f3b1bfb2be4ca2.jpg

Beat that now !

https://musicart.xboxlive.com/7/ed7d0900-0000-0000-0000-000000000002/504/image.jpg?w=1920&h=1080

Still no to the true origins of Dr Banner and MR. HULK ?

[lyrecono]

Delete the entire class and put that kind of effort and over the top power into 2hf and a universal 2hf tree as an appologee for years of neglect.

[Kutalp]

Delete the entire class and put that kind of effort and over the top power into 2hf and a universal 2hf tree as an appologee for years of neglect.




It is impossible not to go for Dr and Beast when there is alchemy.

[fatherpirate]

Tried it, not my thing.

but that is me and I am not going
to trash the class...some folks will like it.

So to those folks, have fun with it.