Two Things Are Killing This Game

[TheMaxpower]

1. Lag - Please stop introducing new content until lag is fixed. ALL HANDS ON DECK! At times the game is unplayable due to lag. This is unacceptable.

2. Low Server Populations - Either merge servers or allow cross server play! This game is not fun when there is nobody to play with or when raids are difficult to fill. This issue got much worse when HC server was open - live servers were a ghost-town.

Surely SSG is aware of both of these issues. Fix them soon or you will continue to see people leave the game. You have a great game. Don’t blow it !

[Crazeyred]

1) I run a old laptop with windows 8.1 OS I have had lag 1 time in 3 months back playing..
2) I agree with low population on servers is not any fun but cross server playing will cause More Lag.. Merging servers would be mush better more work for SSG setting things up in the short run..

[Saekee]

new player retention with some thoughtful ways to bridge massive grindwall
gap without giveaways or P2W

Lag is a tech thing, I have no idea

[Chacka_DDO]

1) I run a old laptop with windows 8.1 OS I have had lag 1 time in 3 months back playing..

Most likely because you played DDO only 1 time in 3 months? :rolleyes:
But seriously I have no idea why there are always players who tell you everything is fine no matter how terrible things are...
Also, your statement is already a sign that you have no idea when you tell us something about your system and OS.
I just assume most players can divide very well between lag that is happening on their system or server-lag happening on the DDO server and the OP is obviously talking about server-lag


2) I agree with low population on servers is not any fun but cross server playing will cause More Lag.. Merging servers would be mush better more work for SSG setting things up in the short run..

Yes, server lag is potentially increased if you have more players on one server but this is anyhow what the OP is talking about.
If SSG works on server lag it might give the potential to merge servers without more lag.
I can only say that the hardcore server had much less lag with a very high population (compared to a normal DDO server)
I can just only assume the reason might be they used better servers of some sort for hardcore to make that possible.
And yes I know I can be wrong because I dont have insight into the real facts but it appears to me that SSG is able to set up servers with low lag if they really want.
The question is if they cannot make the needed investment or if they just only save money at the wrong end.

[Ultinoob]

new player retention with some thoughtful ways to bridge massive grindwall
gap without giveaways or P2W

Lag is a tech thing, I have no idea

Oh yes the Grindwall. Maybe if we could somehow give xp to a new player somehow...

I am with the OP on this. Lag needs to get fixed and population too.

I am by no means a computer wiz kid but I just can't figure out why they cannot make a new process for each instance. Not sure if it is here the lag comes from, but this way you can easily spread the load... Heck you can even do it on physically different servers. There might be an extra load time but i can not imagine it's much and i think all players will be fine with 10 seconds more load time if there is no lag when we are in dungeons.

[Swimms]

1) I run a old laptop with windows 8.1 OS I have had lag 1 time in 3 months back playing..
2) I agree with low population on servers is not any fun but cross server playing will cause More Lag.. Merging servers would be mush better more work for SSG setting things up in the short run..

You must not have played much in the last 4-6 weeks. There has been persistent and regular crippling lag that has been acknowledged by the Devs as an issue that is being worked on. I have played regularly since Ravenloft was released (near daily sessions) and the recent lag (since Hardcore server but more recently with the horse patch) has been like nothing I have experienced in the prior two years. It is not my rig, it is not my internet connection, it has nothing to do with how many times I have logged in or out different characters on my account. It is a problem on the server side or some other issue with their hardware or infrastructure hosting.

[Thrudh]

But seriously I have no idea why there are always players who tell you everything is fine no matter how terrible things are...

And I seriously have no idea why there are always players who tell you everything is terrible no matter how fine things are...

No one is saying "You are not experiencing lag". They are saying "Lag is not universal, because I haven't seen any lag all month". That's an important data point.

Yes, lag destroys the playability of this game. Yet some of us get lag, and some don't. Which makes it harder to troubleshoot.


I can only say that the hardcore server had much less lag with a very high population (compared to a normal DDO server)
I can just only assume the reason might be they used better servers of some sort for hardcore to make that possible.

Maybe it's because of less DPS, and less effects. I know DPS lag was a thing back in the day...

Things were simpler on the HC server... No reincarnation caches to load, no past-lives. It is interesting that HC was mostly lag-free for people who usually experience lag... They definitely should try to figure out what was different.

[Kutalp]

Lag exist but I dont think it is that awfull that it is killng the game. My humble opinion.



I know companies earn through sales; but there should be balance between different types of players (customers if some would insist)


TR race, Reap- rush , Power zerg...TReapowerzerg... is killng it. Not lag.

A garden gnome with giant's power and two cbows and meltlock aura travesty, turns off many players, holding their nose; especially players (customers) had actuall fantasy roleplay experience.



These words are not to BS but for love and sake of the game and the community. (Also for the salesman's). 'Dont use it if you dont like it' doesnt take it anywhere when a couple of ugly ducks choose to fly that way when the entire flock flies the other way. The flock prefer easy abuse which is given as if birthright...The ugly ducks prefer the ancient way of the chap and roleplay based characters...


Flock flies fast and burns fast;wasted to wild hunt...Old ducks get saved but slowly die alone of old age...


You know what happens to birds when they fly past a wind turbine. The wind turbne wins and the entire flock is dead. No more flock...

The ugly ducks may be saved but gone forever...



You dig what I am saying ?




Keep the birds together chap. Do not burn them fast for cheap fast food...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH-mhZLuGRk



Long live DDO.

[Thrudh]

You must not have played much in the last 4-6 weeks. There has been persistent and regular crippling lag that has been acknowledged by the Devs as an issue that is being worked on. I have played regularly since Ravenloft was released (near daily sessions) and the recent lag (since Hardcore server but more recently with the horse patch) has been like nothing I have experienced in the prior two years. It is not my rig, it is not my internet connection, it has nothing to do with how many times I have logged in or out different characters on my account. It is a problem on the server side or some other issue with their hardware or infrastructure hosting.

There is more lag now than normal. But it's not persistent and regular for all of us. I don't know why.

I had a couple of reallybad lag spikes soloing "Watch your step" in the the new Borderlands... But only a couple of minor hiccups anywhere else. (Oh once in Thunderholme slayer group it was really bad too, but that's normal - Thunderholme slayer groups, once they get too big, are almost always laggy).

I just went from 20-30 without much lag at all... No idea what I'm doing different...

[Nebless]

No one is saying "You are not experiencing lag". They are saying "Lag is not universal, because I haven't seen any lag all month". That's an important data point.

Yes, lag destroys the playability of this game. Yet some of us get lag, and some don't. Which makes it harder to troubleshoot.



Thrudh hits it right on the head. I've been playing daily too since Borderland was released and my only lag spots have been inside the Keep and in the Marketplace; the Keep on Khyber, Thelanis and Cannith, the Marketplace on Khyber. And I'm willing to say it's because of my computer specs. I know I can't handle high graphic concentrations, be it here, LotRO or AoC, nor can I handle multiple characters in one place in DDO.

I did get some hitching ONCE while out in the Borderland Wilderness area on Cannith, but other than that nothing and that probably was on the server side. But when I played on Wayfinder I had no lag what so ever anywhere; inside the keep, outside - nothing.

So don't get bent out of shape when others aren't seeing lag.

[Swimms]

There is more lag now than normal. But it's not persistent and regular for all of us. I don't know why.

I had a couple of reallybad lag spikes soloing "Watch your step" in the the new Borderlands... But only a couple of minor hiccups anywhere else. (Oh once in Thunderholme slayer group it was really bad too, but that's normal - Thunderholme slayer groups, once they get too big, are almost always laggy).

I just went from 20-30 without much lag at all... No idea what I'm doing different...

Persistent is probably not the right word choice, but I think it would be fair to call it a "noticeable uptick" in lag relatively speaking.

[shores11]

1. Lag - Please stop introducing new content until lag is fixed. ALL HANDS ON DECK! At times the game is unplayable due to lag. This is unacceptable.

2. Low Server Populations - Either merge servers or allow cross server play! This game is not fun when there is nobody to play with or when raids are difficult to fill. This issue got much worse when HC server was open - live servers were a ghost-town.

Surely SSG is aware of both of these issues. Fix them soon or you will continue to see people leave the game. You have a great game. Don’t blow it !

The funny thing is … these were the same two issues complained about in March 2006 not long after DDO launched. You might consider joining that same prediction team and work on your accuracy.

[lyrecono]

1. Lag - Please stop introducing new content until lag is fixed. ALL HANDS ON DECK! At times the game is unplayable due to lag. This is unacceptable.

2. Low Server Populations - Either merge servers or allow cross server play! This game is not fun when there is nobody to play with or when raids are difficult to fill. This issue got much worse when HC server was open - live servers were a ghost-town.

Surely SSG is aware of both of these issues. Fix them soon or you will continue to see people leave the game. You have a great game. Don’t blow it !

2) undoing all the ballance issues so people have a reason to come back playing might help.....

[Kinerd]

The funny thing is … these were the same two issues complained about in March 2006 not long after DDO launched. You might consider joining that same prediction team and work on your accuracy.The funny thing is... "you will continue to see people leave the game." was absolutely correct.

[Lerincho]

The funny thing is... "you will continue to see people leave the game." was absolutely correct.

And many return after breaks. Sure the new shiny gets attentions, but DDO has replayability that not every game has, and people return.

[nokowi]

2) undoing all the ballance issues so people have a reason to come back playing might help.....

A 3 year stretch to try and make all dps equal should give you little hope that SSG understands design.

[shores11]

The funny thing is... "you will continue to see people leave the game." was absolutely correct.

People come and people go from this game and every other game. I agree there can always be improvements but there is no doom and gloom like you are prophesizing. This game is now 14 plus years old and I have been here from the beginning to people saying the exact same thing. Guess what the game is still making updates, patches, expansions, etc...

Long live DDO!

[Lerincho]

People come and people go from this game and every other game. I agree there can always be improvements but there is no doom and gloom like you are prophesizing. This game is now 14 plus years old and I have been here from the beginning to people saying the exact same thing. Guess what the game is still making updates, patches, expansions, etc...

Long live DDO!

Agreed

14 years despite Age of Conan was going to be the death of DDO.
14 years despite Lord of the Rings Online was going to be the death of DDO.
14 years despite Neverwinter was going to be the death of DDO.

Notice a pattern?

[nokowi]

People come and people go from this game and every other game. I agree there can always be improvements but there is no doom and gloom like you are prophesizing. This game is now 14 plus years old and I have been here from the beginning to people saying the exact same thing. Guess what the game is still making updates, patches, expansions, etc...

Long live DDO!

It depends on the perspective of what you are looking for. If you are looking for a big pool of players in an MMO, DDO already died.

If you are looking for a game that can just continue on life support, DDO can probably do this for a long time.

The concern people have is the server population they see and the server population they are able to interact with. The game dies for those looking for an MMO when that available pool of players do not meet their needs or preferences.

SSG has had trouble serving both the "must group" crowd, the "solo crowd", the "new player", etc. The game will die when too many people have been designed out of the game, or when the whales no longer like the design direction. Those two issue are at contrast with each other without a large enough player base, as the devs have to choose between the whales and other preferences.

We can clearly see the issues that could cause DDO to die. We just don't know when, and we don't know what action SSG might take to really increase or decrease the player base. DDO would have certainly died without the change to Free To Play, and they are here today because somebody was brave enough to make a change and they were lucky/skilled enough to be successful with that change.

[Lerincho]

Without the actual numbers of the game, judging by LFM is an absolutely wasteful thought process. User channels took the place of that long time ago. Provide concrete data that proves that server merge is warranted and that everything on a single server will cure the lag issue or other problems that people are having.

[HungarianRhapsody]

Without the actual numbers of the game, judging by LFM is an absolutely wasteful thought process. User channels took the place of that long time ago. Provide concrete data that proves that server merge is warranted and that everything on a single server will cure the lag issue or other problems that people are having.

Anyone want to list the good user channels that exist on each server?

Because User Channels don't do a **** bit of good if people don't know about them.

[Kinerd]

People come and people go from this game and every other game. I agree there can always be improvements but there is no doom and gloom like you are prophesizing. This game is now 14 plus years old and I have been here from the beginning to people saying the exact same thing. Guess what the game is still making updates, patches, expansions, etc...

Long live DDO!Who said DDO would stop having updates? The only claim in this thread is that population is decreasing, which we all know is true.

[Thrudh]

Anyone want to list the good user channels that exist on each server?

Because User Channels don't do a **** bit of good if people don't know about them.

I agree with this point..

I don't have too much trouble finding groups, but I wouldn't mind if they destroyed user channels. They seem counter-productive to the health of the game.

[Thrudh]

Who said DDO would stop having updates? The only claim in this thread is that population is decreasing, which we all know is true.

DDO is a huge success no matter what happens next month or next year or next decade.

14 years means it's already a success.

And the fact that they are still doing updates, big updates even, is huge. People have been stating that DDO is "on life-support" for at least 10 years now. They were all wrong.

[Chai]

Without the actual numbers of the game, judging by LFM is an absolutely wasteful thought process. User channels took the place of that long time ago. Provide concrete data that proves that server merge is warranted and that everything on a single server will cure the lag issue or other problems that people are having.

When people began posting concrete data using MyDDO log in numbers to show net loss head count attrition, the company removed the API.

Thats all anyone objective discussing this on the player side needs to know.

People of course will apply the ages old tactic of demanding evidence they know cant be in the hands of those they demand it from in order to deny their point, but in this situation, that evidence existed for quite some time, and it reinforced the point being made.

Since there are people here that want to make a counterpoint, what evidence suggests the population is NOT in net loss attrition?

[Sylvado]

Some players, such as myself, have no lag at all. That does not indicate a server problem which would impact all players on the server. I would guess the lag is the result of peering agreements with the ISPs.

[Chai]

DDO is a huge success no matter what happens next month or next year or next decade.

14 years means it's already a success.

And the fact that they are still doing updates, big updates even, is huge. People have been stating that DDO is "on life-support" for at least 10 years now. They were all wrong.

Indeed they are wrong, because the monetization model used un-tethers "success" from being dependent on total population concurrency in a linear fashion. Its actually possible (and quite likely) that revenue can increase even in situations where the population decreases.

Most big spenders for instance, understand what this brings and are satisfied that they can buy their way through the parts of the game they do not enjoy. Those who cannot or will not do this, who also do not enjoy the lack of system balance this causes, are likely attriting at a multiplicitively higher rate, even to the point of being orders of magnitude higher in some situations.

As this is well known, this monetization model is often used as a direct response to, and in reaction to, declining population concurrency.

[Brandwynn]

Another doom and gloam thread. People really need to work on their prophetic accuracy.... 14 years and still going strong.

[Crazeyred]

Most likely because you played DDO only 1 time in 3 months? :rolleyes:
But seriously I have no idea why there are always players who tell you everything is fine no matter how terrible things are...
Also, your statement is already a sign that you have no idea when you tell us something about your system and OS.
I just assume most players can divide very well between lag that is happening on their system or server-lag happening on the DDO server and the OP is obviously talking about server-lag



Yes, server lag is potentially increased if you have more players on one server but this is anyhow what the OP is talking about.
If SSG works on server lag it might give the potential to merge servers without more lag.
I can only say that the hardcore server had much less lag with a very high population (compared to a normal DDO server)
I can just only assume the reason might be they used better servers of some sort for hardcore to make that possible.
And yes I know I can be wrong because I dont have insight into the real facts but it appears to me that SSG is able to set up servers with low lag if they really want.
The question is if they cannot make the needed investment or if they just only save money at the wrong end.
Try I play average 7 hours a day how about you?? I do know what I'm talking about but then I run solo with hirelings also.. It take 1 player in Group having issues to cause the whole group to have lag.. I do have 14 years Network Server admin Experience I'm not just some Noob.. But then so many experts commenting on Posts... And I'm NOT saying people don't get Lag just saying I DON'T...

[GeneralDiomedes]

In the same day, I would experience no lag on the hardcore server but lag on Sarlona. In fact, I can maybe remember one lag instance on hardcore (playing 4 hrs a day) but lag is at least an multiple times an hour occurrence on Sarlona.

Lag denial should be a crime .. if there is no lag why are the servers being rebooted all the time ?

[GoldyGopher]

1. Lag - Please stop introducing new content until lag is fixed. ALL HANDS ON DECK! At times the game is unplayable due to lag. This is unacceptable.

2. Low Server Populations - Either merge servers or allow cross server play! This game is not fun when there is nobody to play with or when raids are difficult to fill. This issue got much worse when HC server was open - live servers were a ghost-town.

Surely SSG is aware of both of these issues. Fix them soon or you will continue to see people leave the game. You have a great game. Don’t blow it !


Not everyone at SSG who works on DDO is working on things that creates or decreases lag or have the toolset to work on things that either creates lag or decreases lag, it is not reasonable to ask that a 3D artist to work on a server said TCP integration issue. To continue to keep the lights on and the game continuing new content, races, classes and other sellable items need to be released and purchased. Dropping everything else to address Lag, while it sounds promising is probably more detrimental to the game than the lag itself.

That's not saying I think the kind of lag we as player occasionally experience is acceptable, multiple days unable to access Guild Ships or other instances, party wipes on the Hardcare server with level 17 characters because everyone is frozen, lag from opening a chest, lag from some party member playing via a tethered blackberry on 3g.


Server Populations - Server Merges rarely solve the problem you are attempting to solve, i.e. find more people for you to group with. This has been beaten to death in umpteen other threads. Go see how server merges went in any of the other games that have had them recently. However there are things I wish SSG would do to help with server populations. A better system of rotating the default server, systems to help new players integrate faster, improvements to the UIs through out the game, and retirement/rebuilding of older systems so they all follow one model. Try explaining the 37 various crafting systems to someone...

[harmlesslarry]

This game is dead-alive. It is what it is, and it will always be that- nothing will change its condition except that perhaps its audience leaves, and as far as that goes, the player base is static, or seems to be, and so long as the devs keep it alive with new content, these people have nowhere else to go, regardless of whatever observations you bring. In fact, I have seen more new players in the last 3 months than the last two years, so the game will remain alive for awhile, from my observation.

[Kinerd]

DDO is a huge success no matter what happens next month or next year or next decade.

14 years means it's already a success.

And the fact that they are still doing updates, big updates even, is huge. People have been stating that DDO is "on life-support" for at least 10 years now. They were all wrong.I'm not interested in what they write in the obituary, I'm interested in staving that off.

[C-Dog]

Two Things Are Killing This Game
Imo, only ONE thing is "killing" this game, and that's all the negative forum posts. What new player would want to join when every fourth post is "The game is dying" or "This or that is unacceptable" or "Seriously?..." Talk about a cold welcome.

Is the game as busy as it was ten years ago? Nope. Is there lag? Occasionally, yep. Is there room for improvement? In everything always. Is the game still one of the best out there? YEP! Is the content getting better every expansion? YEP! Are you still playing this game, despite all the prophecies of doom and gloom? Seems that way...

There are ways to complain without making it sound like the end of the game. Because the only thing currently "killing" this game are threads like this one.

[nokowi]

Imo, only ONE thing is "killing" this game, and that's all the negative forum posts. What new player would want to join when every fourth post is "The game is dying" or "This or that is unacceptable" or "Seriously?..." Talk about a cold welcome.

Is the game as busy as it was ten years ago? Nope. Is there lag? Occasionally, yep. Is there room for improvement? In everything always. Is the game still one of the best out there? YEP! Is the content getting better every expansion? YEP! Are you still playing this game, despite all the prophecies of doom and gloom? Seems that way...

There are ways to complain without making it sound like the end of the game. Because the only thing currently "killing" this game are threads like this one.

Posts like this are actually why DDO doesn't get better.

Anyone suggesting improvements is a bad person and a bad player.

Getting rid of bad people is the go-to here, and the people remaining are no better than the people leaving, they just happen to have a different opinion or preference.

Those empty LFM's are well deserved, because I have seen how the new players are treated when they make suggestions here - and it is pretty much the same as when a non-new player makes a suggestion - as a bad player and a bad person for doing so.

[Eryhn]

https://im6.ezgif.com/tmp/ezgif-6-39501a7f244e.gif

[TestPilot]

or allow cross server play!

Why do people always say this as if the only reason we dont already have ross-server play is that SSG forbids it? d'ya not understand that adding such a feature would be a MASSIVE undertaking on a level with recoding the entire game? they merge the servers fix the lag fix storage and make 6 expansions for the amount of effort it would take to produce a 'cross server play' mode.

[Fenrisulven7]

Server Merges rarely solve the problem you are attempting to solve, i.e. find more people for you to group with. This has been beaten to death in umpteen other threads. Go see how server merges went in any of the other games that have had them recently.

Can you elaborate more on this? How did server mergers fail to address the problem with other games.

I'm not arguing with you, I just want to know what happened.

[Fenrisulven7]

Posts like this are actually why DDO doesn't get better.

No, C-Dog is right. I returned from 2013 and it was demoralizing to see all the "DDO dying" threads on the forums.

They made me wonder if restarting would be a waste of my time and energy.

I just ran the wife through all the harbor quests, and was nostalgic for all the good things in DDO that we just take for granted. We're actually very lucky the game is still up and running.

[Thrudh]

Anyone suggesting improvements is a bad person and a bad player.

No, suggesting improvements is always welcome.

Sometimes the devs don't take our advice though.

You used to suggest improvements. Good suggestions.

But the devs never implemented your suggestions, and now many of your posts are bitter and negative. Maybe for good reason. But they don't help.

Suggestions for improvements are always welcome. Bitter and negative, not so much.

[lyrecono]

No, C-Dog is right. I returned from 2013 and it was demoralizing to see all the "DDO dying" threads on the forums.

They made me wonder if restarting would be a waste of my time and energy.

I just ran the wife through all the harbor quests, and was nostalgic for all the good things in DDO that we just take for granted. We're actually very lucky the game is still up and running.

Harbor?

Hoe many forum handles have been perma banned for having a different opinion? How many have been put on the dev ignore list so their conceirns never seem to reach them?

How many posters on the forum quit playing (and paying).
When it comes to ddo, these 2 groups are the living dead.



https://youtu.be/iK6hI423gcw

Your problem is that you look at a (shiny) ruin and are glad it is still there.
Our problem is that we knew how good it was and and it rotting away to make room for the equivalent of a shiny oriental knock of, completely hollow. We saw what it could have been and compare it to what we have now, can you imagine the dissapointment?

[Wizard1406]

1. Lag - Please stop introducing new content until lag is fixed. ALL HANDS ON DECK! At times the game is unplayable due to lag. This is unacceptable.

2. Low Server Populations - Either merge servers or allow cross server play! This game is not fun when there is nobody to play with or when raids are difficult to fill. This issue got much worse when HC server was open - live servers were a ghost-town.

Surely SSG is aware of both of these issues. Fix them soon or you will continue to see people leave the game. You have a great game. Don’t blow it !

Wholly agree... the positive things first: The gameplay is unqiue and great, feels a lot like D&D and has PnP like touches. It's a far cry from the thousands of pseudo-quests (kill 10, collect 5x, repeat until you fall asleep of boredom....) in WoW-style MMOs.

And it's absolutely amazing that a game with a TINY population has so many, high quality content updates. (Meanwhile, in some other MMOs, that have multiple 100k or even millions of players, the developers let their game have long content draughts...)


However it's sometimes hard to enjoy the game due to lag, bugs, engine problem and no one to play with. Soloing is fine for a while but gets boring in an MMO IMHO.

There is also an inventory nightmare, muling stuff takes ages, because of the logout bug (/logout taking 2-3 minutes instead of instant)
Sometimes I wish I could just throw away everything and play "solo self-found" only lol

For the lag I think there may be some inherent problems with the game engine, since 2006... that sadly can't be easily fixed. It might need a whole make over "DDO - A realm reborn" style to fix all the lag and some very persistant bugs.


I do think they could help with low population and low LFM participation - one example would free or super cheap server transfers so players can congregate more easily but the problem might be that they are deathly afraid of

1) breaking something in the progress because the engine is so prone to bugs and lag (see above)
2). Offending their whales, or making them spend less money and thus costing them too much revenue :-/
3.) offending long time players that might lose their names or guild names or have to rebuild guild (Personally I never understood why having to change your name or guild name, maybe a few extra / different letters was worth quitting a MMO for)

[Caarb]

The funny thing is … these were the same two issues complained about in March 2006 not long after DDO launched. You might consider joining that same prediction team and work on your accuracy.

And the second part at least was true - if DDO had not changed to a FTP model DDO would have died.

[Wizard1406]

Anyone want to list the good user channels that exist on each server?

Because User Channels don't do a **** bit of good if people don't know about them.

I second this. Can anyone tell about user channels? Are they useful? Don't they scatter the community further? In the only user channel on Thelanis that I know of yet and during my playtime there are usually only 2-10 users in it and almost nothing going on there .

[Fenrisulven7]

How many forum handles have been perma banned for having a different opinion? How many have been put on the dev ignore list so their concerns never seem to reach them?

I don't know. How many? Do you have actual numbers or are you just being hyperbolic? How many people?



We saw what it could have been and compare it to what we have now, can you imagine the disappointment?

I don't need to imagine - every time I log onto the forums I get the same 12 people who won't shut up about it.

But tell me "what could have been". Name an MMO better than DDO. Then explain why you aren't playing there...

[Nyata]

I second this. Can anyone tell about user channels? Are they useful? Don't they scatter the community further? In the only user channel on Thelanis that I know of yet and during my playtime there are usually only 2-10 users in it and almost nothing going on there .

channels are not the only problem. actually I believe that channels have been mostly replaced by discord or other external applications. You cannot control things like that. Why many people only feel happy in a closed off group I don't understand, but it has been a fact for as long as I have been playing DDo.

[shores11]

And the second part at least was true - if DDO had not changed to a FTP model DDO would have died.

DDO changed to a FTP model because well oh, every other MMO out there was trending in that direction. It made 100% perfect sense to do so and fortunately DDO made that smart business decision.

However you are changing the topic as some will do. Back to the two original OP points the game is not dying because of what was posted. In fact the game is not dying at all. I see life and new life in the game all the time.

[Zogid]

Lag:
SSG should buy everyone who plays ddo a new computer and pay for enhanced internet and wifi for all

Server population:
SSG should mail cigarettes out to anyone who reaches certain milestones in the game. That way more people will get addicted!

My apologies to people who think cigarettes aren't addictive. You are amazing!

[GoldyGopher]

Can you elaborate more on this? How did server mergers fail to address the problem with other games.

I'm not arguing with you, I just want to know what happened.

There have been several MMOs who have in the recent past have completed a server merge. I think one of them may have been slightly successful in helping with the grouping problem. In most cases it a rich get richer and the poor get poorer result. When players want to and ask for servers to merge its because they want to find more characters that have the ability to group with for their characters. When the other games merged servers, the players who were asking for the merges are the same group that gets left behind.

Small and Medium sized guilds get stripped of their active players leaving the less active, and casual players behind. This creates more "guild LFMs" for the big guilds and less world wide LFMs for everyone else.
If you play at off peak hours, you still are going to be playing off peak hours. There is still very few characters to run with. And many are "solo" characters to begin with.

Games that have seen a resurgence have found ways to bring older players back and keep new players longer.

[Wizard1406]

Let's face it, 8 servers is WAY too much for the population. I think a SINGLE low pop server in more popular MMOs has more people online than all DDO servers combined.


"If you play at off peak hours, you still are going to be playing off peak hours."

Yes but playing off-peak on a mega-server / cross server would be about 7x as much players online as on a single server now... surely 400+ online is better than < 70, even if not that many people group / PUG.
This would lead to more PUG and more guild group chances (more chance of finding a bigger, more active guild that plays at your time, so more than just 2-5 players online in guild, scattered around 30 levels)


Another problem is of course, many smaller groups rarely opening a LFM - Why?

I can kinda understand for hard content that requires a lot of communication and very well coordinated play, like higher end/ more complicated raids, or high reaper quests..... but why not open LFMs more often for leveling, easier reaper farming, saga farming or farming items?
Scaling isn't going to slow you down that much, if at all, it even stops at 4 players AFAIK.

Some players say enticing people to PUG more, by offering significant permanent LFM bonus is bad and toxic for community, because players that don't want to group would then be "forced" to group and become toxic. I somehow doubt this, most PUG DDO players I met are friendly, even if some are quite hectic ("gotta go fast......xp pot ticking... I've got 50 more past lives to grind...".)


"Games that have seen a resurgence have found ways to bring older players back and keep new players longer."

This is a very important point too. People have already listed many things in other threads that could improve new / returning player retention but so far has fallen on deaf ears. No it's not the graphics, after all even Runescape (with seriously UGLY graphics) has a loyal fanbase, way bigger than DDO.

[Lerincho]

Let's face it, 8 servers is WAY too much for the population. I think a SINGLE low pop server in more popular MMOs has more people online than all DDO servers combined.
.

To a single server? No. Maybe down to 3, but not a complete reductions.

[Nebless]

DDO changed to a FTP model because well oh, every other MMO out there was trending in that direction.

I don't believe so, Talk that DDO was going F2p was a pretty radical concept when it came out and the one of the reasons other games decided to copy the concept was it's over all success.

[Wizard1406]

I don't believe so, Talk that DDO was going F2p was a pretty radical concept when it came out and the one of the reasons other games decided to copy the concept was it's over all success.

Yeah back in the day, DDO was the first western MMO with F2P model, only pay to win eastern F2P MMOs existed. I think it was really restrictive, so I would never have played without a subscription but apparently people loved it so it was super successful.


However, nowadays DDO's F2P is really expensive, when you compare it to other western F2P MMOs.

For example SWTOR runs almost exclusively on cosmetics (the best kind of microtransactions, since it has no effect on gameplay) and VIP, so you pay subscription and get EVERYTHING, all expansions, no more pesky convenicence restrictions (ex. shared bank is huge) , no annoying stuff like having to farm hearts, etc.

Personally I don't mind DDOs business model too much since I finally covered the bases now, but I can see it turning off new / returning / casual players big time.

[Thrudh]

There is also an inventory nightmare, muling stuff takes ages, because of the logout bug (/logout taking 2-3 minutes instead of instant)

FYI...

One thing I always do with my bank mule characters is I always go through one loading screen before logging off.

If I log in, and I'm in the bank, I do my inventory swapping, then step outside the bank before logging off... Seems to help. Next time, I log in outside the bank, step inside, do my stuff, then log off inside the bank.

One loading screen seems to be enough.

Also, after you've logged in 3-4 different characters, quit the game entirely and reload it.

[Chacka_DDO]

Try I play average 7 hours a day how about you?? I do know what I'm talking about but then I run solo with hirelings also.. It take 1 player in Group having issues to cause the whole group to have lag.. I do have 14 years Network Server admin Experience I'm not just some Noob.. But then so many experts commenting on Posts... And I'm NOT saying people don't get Lag just saying I DON'T...

First, it was ironically meant when I say you may play 1 time per 3 months.
Second, it is indeed helpful to be exact, if you say you dont experience server lag and a possible reason could be you play most time solo, this might be a piece of helpful information.

And it is indeed also something I "feel" that the numbers of player characters can increase the chance of lag within a group.
But also this is not related to anything a player can do, it doesn't help if you have a newer OS or higher-performing system running at your home.
It is also not about your Internet Service Provider.
The lag I talking about (and most players I see on the forum) is caused by something only SSG can change.
And a solution is of course also not that everyone plays now solo to prevent lag.

That more players in your group increase the chance of lag for the whole group is a sign that there is some kind of coding issue in DDO.
And indeed better servers should be always helpful to fight server lag.
My personal guess is that the main attention should go to the DDO software and coding because I assume that the main source for lag lais here.
Like for example that Cordovan said on a live stream that a source for lag might be not correctly closing guild ship (and other?) instances in DDO.

And another guess I have is that a better coded AI would decrease the lag chance also a lot.
The question is of course if SSG got the developers who can create such a better running AI for DDO.

[nokowi]

No, suggesting improvements is always welcome.

That's not my impression after a multi year ban on discussing stealth. This coming after deciding not to support it without telling the player base (the first and only time they have stopped supporting class features without comment).

All of our questions about why abilities were not working went unanswered.

The forums were full of trolling of players as being bad for suggesting there were issues. The player base that understood the game was correct of course, and the trolls were just people either without knowledge and understanding, or those just here for the joy of trolling others.

Where were you when we were being trolled?

Where were the devs?

I am a bit bitter, and for very good reason. 10,000 hours invested in this game and they just stopped supporting me and those interested in skilled play and competitive decisions - without comment or reason.

SSG would have to demonstrate the ability to respond to the affected player base before receiving higher quality posts and suggestions from them. We had a DDO player that spent 20+ hours drafting something for the devs, and they gave up after doing all the work because they knew SSG did not care, and they were concerned about the amount of trolling that is supported here.

SSG does not need high quality posts when they go straight to the garbage pile.

People will not make high quality posts when they are trolled for doing so.

[Livmo]

1. Lag - Please stop introducing new content until lag is fixed. ALL HANDS ON DECK! At times the game is unplayable due to lag. This is unacceptable.

2. Low Server Populations - Either merge servers or allow cross server play! This game is not fun when there is nobody to play with or when raids are difficult to fill. This issue got much worse when HC server was open - live servers were a ghost-town.

Surely SSG is aware of both of these issues. Fix them soon or you will continue to see people leave the game. You have a great game. Don’t blow it !

3 - All the negativity on the forums, and people can find the forums and read the posts. It may turn them away from trying/playing. Especially all the game is dying posts.

4 - Elitism in game and negativty towards noobs, since the game has high learning curve and adjustment period to get stronger player charecters. Typcially people I introduce to DDO to peeter out around levels 7-10.

[nokowi]

3 - All the negativity on the forums, and people can find the forums and read the posts. It may turn them away from trying/playing. Especially all the game is dying posts.

4 - Elitism in game and negativty towards noobs, since the game has high learning curve and adjustment period to get stronger player charecters. Typcially people I introduce to DDO to peeter out around levels 7-10.

The much bigger factor is that the game is not friendly to new players. People say that only 5% of players go to the forums whenever they want to minimize a complaint or issue. If only 5% of the player base comes here, how can those other peoples posts really make much of a difference?

There is a lot of projection here (In general, I'm certainly not referring to Livmo here) as to some other player being a problem. When "other players" are the issue, you see why DDO has population problems.

Other players, with other preferences, posting in ways one doesn't like are still good for the game. The response to "the game is dying" should be ideas for solutions, or responses about what is great about the game that do not try and minimize an alternative view, and the telling another person what to post should go away completely.

That would create a much more positive forums.

[Chai]

No, suggesting improvements is always welcome.

Sometimes the devs don't take our advice though.

You used to suggest improvements. Good suggestions.

But the devs never implemented your suggestions, and now many of your posts are bitter and negative. Maybe for good reason. But they don't help.

Suggestions for improvements are always welcome. Bitter and negative, not so much.

When people post bitter and negative with no objective feedback, then leave, I agree with you.

When people post bitter and negative but there is still worthy feedback about what they want, then stay around monitoring for a game change in their favor for a long period of time, it shows passion for the game they spent eons playing before the rug was yanked out from under their play style.

Expecting a dichotomy of white knighting or not posting at all is unrealistic. Those who dont like what is posted as feedback have the option of not reading it, and not replying to it.

[Chai]

I don't know. How many? Do you have actual numbers or are you just being hyperbolic? How many people?




I don't need to imagine - every time I log onto the forums I get the same 12 people who won't shut up about it.

But tell me "what could have been". Name an MMO better than DDO. Then explain why you aren't playing there...

Pull up one of the threads on p2w from say....2013. Search terms "pay play win" - use "thread titles only" setting.

Aggregate the number of posters in either one of those. (there were 2 really long discussions on it)

Then look at who those "same 12 people" you are referencing here.

We are 12 of the 14 people left from that era in those discussions.

You got the number almost right.

Business 101. The thing to be concerned about isnt that the same 12 people moan about the same few topics, but that theres only 12 of them left. (well, really 14) Everyone else is new, or went on break for so long they might as well be new.

For anyone who does this homework, any argument of net loss attrition NOT occurring will be swiftly and objectively refuted - unless you can show me the total number aggregated (and I know what this number is as I have done said homework) subtract 14, then show me an equal number of posters currently discussing the same topic(s).

Im 100% positive this cant be done to show net headcount concurrency gain between those two eras.

Change my mind.
----------------------------------------
P.S.

Thats just one topic.

Hint: The "server merge" threads from those eras will further refute any claim of net concurrency gain between those two eras, as those numbers are even less in favor of headcount retention.

Then do the same exercise on "Endgame" threads. :p :p :p The percentage of those folks who left due to this one subject after being shouted down by the same few people running interference for the company in that era is what SSG *should be* targeting for rejoining / retention from previous eras.

[krimsonrane]

Not too long ago someone had a wild idea. they said.. we have low server populations and we're losing customers so lets separate the subscribers from premium and free members for a couple months and see how many more people we can lose by turning normal servers into ghost towns.

Then there's the other ongoing idea that marketing isn't necessary so that subscriptions increase. Instead we'll just further overcharge the remaining population for digital merchandise that has no value whatsoever beyond this game. You know. like charging $30+ dollars to temporarily unbind a single BTC item.

[Wizard1406]

True....DDO is more expensive than most other MMOs other than pay2win Asian MMOs.

I mean SWTOR always gets criticized for bad F2P model, but it offers base game and 2 expansions for free and sub once for a month (~13€) and you get ALL expansions and all content except cosmetics (races are purely cosmetic in SWTOR) and even then, (almost?) all cosmetics and race unlocks are unbound and sellable on auction house.


However - if your game has a tiny population, but you want to make regular content updates anyway you kinda HAVE to overprice the store otherwise it's not sustainable. Mostly cosmetic and VIP or buy2play based income stores only work on bigger populations (see SWTOR or GW2)

Marketing , newbie friendliness and new / returning player retention is key for a healthy game population. Apparently SSG doesn't care or doesn't have enough resources to do it? It takes more effort and marketing specialists (which they maybe don't even have anymore?) or excellent word of mouth and viral marketing for this. More effort and time than offering a new whale / dolphin item in the store.

What can players do to market DDO other than recommending this game to all friends and on all MMO discussion sites? Because of newbie unfriendliness the game is a very tough sell unless someone is a hardcore D&D fan and heavily prefers lobby MMOs over open world.

I'm not on social media so I have no clue about viral marketing, I only read that DDO sparks little if any new/returning player interest from facebook, twitch ,youtube and so on.

[Fenrisulven7]

"I don't know. How many? Do you have actual numbers or are you just being hyperbolic? How many people?"


Pull up one of the threads on p2w from say....2013. Search terms "pay play win" - use "thread titles only" setting. Aggregate the number of posters in either one of those. (there were 2 really long discussions on it) Then look at who those "same 12 people" you are referencing here. We are 12 of the 14 people left from that era in those discussions.

In other words, as usual, you can't back up your assertions with any actual proof. And you want me to do your homework for you.




by the same few people running interference for the company

LOL. I'm not running "interference", I have issues with SSG but I make my thoughts know privately, in a civil polite manner.

I'm just sick of hearing the same people whine all over the forums about the whatever their latest gripe is. Like kids who are told they can't get the toy they want but go on and on and on about how unfair it is.

If you aren't getting your way, try interacting with the devs in a civil respectful manner, stop making everything so adversarial. It's not us against them.

And if you are really this unhappy with the game, go play something else. Stop haunting the forums, trying to shame SSG into giving into your tantrums. It's annoying.

[nokowi]

"I don't know. How many? Do you have actual numbers or are you just being hyperbolic? How many people?"



In other words, as usual, you can't back up your assertions with any actual proof. And you want me to do your homework for you.





LOL. I'm not running "interference", I have issues with SSG but I make my thoughts know privately, in a civil polite manner.

I'm just sick of hearing the same people whine all over the forums about the whatever their latest gripe is. Like kids who are told they can't get the toy they want but go on and on and on about how unfair it is.

If you aren't getting your way, try interacting with the devs in a civil respectful manner, stop making everything so adversarial. It's not us against them.

And if you are really this unhappy with the game, go play something else. Stop haunting the forums, trying to shame SSG into giving into your tantrums. It's annoying.

I hope you get the irony of doing pretty much the exact same thing you are complaining about.

Please consider living up to your own expectations, and refraining from posting here, just like you are asking of others.

If you are unhappy with the forums, go somewhere else. Stop haunting the forums, trying to shame others into not posting what they believe to be legitimate posts.

[krimsonrane]

True....DDO is more expensive than most other MMOs other than pay2win Asian MMOs.

I mean SWTOR always gets criticized for bad F2P model, but it offers base game and 2 expansions for free and sub once for a month (~13€) and you get ALL expansions and all content except cosmetics (races are purely cosmetic in SWTOR) and even then, (almost?) all cosmetics and race unlocks are unbound and sellable on auction house.


However - if your game has a tiny population, but you want to make regular content updates anyway you kinda HAVE to overprice the store otherwise it's not sustainable. Mostly cosmetic and VIP or buy2play based income stores only work on bigger populations (see SWTOR or GW2)

Marketing , newbie friendliness and new / returning player retention is key for a healthy game population. Apparently SSG doesn't care or doesn't have enough resources to do it? It takes more effort and marketing specialists (which they maybe don't even have anymore?) or excellent word of mouth and viral marketing for this. More effort and time than offering a new whale / dolphin item in the store.

What can players do to market DDO other than recommending this game to all friends and on all MMO discussion sites? Because of newbie unfriendliness the game is a very tough sell unless someone is a hardcore D&D fan and heavily prefers lobby MMOs over open world.

I'm not on social media so I have no clue about viral marketing, I only read that DDO sparks little if any new/returning player interest from facebook, twitch ,youtube and so on.


If the player base is expected to handle all marketing then provide some resources and incentives for them to do so.

Also, I don't think it's just DDO overcharging. Anything D&D seems to be for people with money to burn only. Their official phone app game asks for more money than DDO does. $50 for a frickin new character card in a game that isn't even D&D. it's checkers with avatars.

[Fenrisulven7]

I hope you get the irony of doing pretty much the exact same thing you are complaining about.

Please consider living up to your own expectations, and refraining from posting here, just like you are asking of others.

You have a right to express your opinion, I have a right to express my opinion of your opinion.

ie. I'll stop complaining about your complaints once you stop complaining.

But it's amusing how you guys don't like what you do when it's done to you.

[Brutuscass]

1. Lag - Please stop introducing new content until lag is fixed. ALL HANDS ON DECK! At times the game is unplayable due to lag. This is unacceptable.

2. Low Server Populations - Either merge servers or allow cross server play! This game is not fun when there is nobody to play with or when raids are difficult to fill. This issue got much worse when HC server was open - live servers were a ghost-town.

Surely SSG is aware of both of these issues. Fix them soon or you will continue to see people leave the game. You have a great game. Don’t blow it !

I have already covered the server merge and game dying fear before here https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/510101-Hardcore-League-Season-One-Final-Standings-and-the-After-Party!?p=6270366#post6270366

so all I am going add is this

https://i.imgur.com/ZOQdoPM.jpg

[nokowi]

You have a right to express your opinion, I have a right to express my opinion of your opinion.

ie. I'll stop complaining about your complaints once you stop complaining.

But it's amusing how you guys don't like what you do when it's done to you.

You can feel free to complain about others complaining.

I'll point out that telling complainers to go away (your point) would logically include yourself.

I'll point out that "if you don't like it, go away" would logically include yourself.



I certainly wouldn't expect anyone to respect your advice if you can't follow it 3 seconds after you give it.

I have no problem with your posts, I love them.

You may not recognize why they are so great.

[Arellano]

I would like more people to play with on servers =).

[Odysseus2011]

You must not have played much in the last 4-6 weeks. There has been persistent and regular crippling lag that has been acknowledged by the Devs as an issue that is being worked on. I have played regularly since Ravenloft was released (near daily sessions) and the recent lag (since Hardcore server but more recently with the horse patch) has been like nothing I have experienced in the prior two years. It is not my rig, it is not my internet connection, it has nothing to do with how many times I have logged in or out different characters on my account. It is a problem on the server side or some other issue with their hardware or infrastructure hosting.

It has gotten so bad that I have considered scrapping my guild’s normal Sunday raid night that we’ve been doing for years. We have spent the last 5-7 weeks being unable to even move in some of the newer raids, specifically PN THTH and KT. As a result we only run these raids when the developers restart the severs because it’s to much of a ****show to run them at the end of a restart period.

[Carpone]

Without the actual numbers of the game, judging by LFM is an absolutely wasteful thought process.
LFMs are the best "numbers" we have for the game. The population on all servers took a huge hit while hardcore league was running. There were 450 people on at 7pm (my primetime playtimes). If no one is posting groups, and guilds are a ghost town, it's a downward spiral from there. DDO doesn't have the population to run the hardcore league server and the live servers simultaneously.

[Pyed-Pyper]

LFMs are the best "numbers" we have for the game. The population on all servers took a huge hit while hardcore league was running. There were 450 people on at 7pm (my primetime playtimes). If no one is posting groups, and guilds are a ghost town, it's a downward spiral from there. DDO doesn't have the population to run the hardcore league server and the live servers simultaneously.

450 = hc pop? your server's pop? other?

---

Aside from the above, a general observation: any pop count from the social tab can't be considered precise because of incognitos and multi-boxers. From an analysis position, considering those a wash is probably reasonable. (My opinion is the boxes outnumber the hiddens but that's a guess.) Regardless of how accurate that number is, I think Carpone's take-away is a valid analysis.

[Crazeyred]

LFMs are the best "numbers" we have for the game. The population on all servers took a huge hit while hardcore league was running. There were 450 people on at 7pm (my primetime playtimes). If no one is posting groups, and guilds are a ghost town, it's a downward spiral from there. DDO doesn't have the population to run the hardcore league server and the live servers simultaneously.
I play all servers and though I solo most of the time because of health issues...

[jkalten]

450 = hc pop? your server's pop? other?

---

Aside from the above, a general observation: any pop count from the social tab can't be considered precise because of incognitos and multi-boxers. From an analysis position, considering those a wash is probably reasonable. (My opinion is the boxes outnumber the hiddens but that's a guess.) Regardless of how accurate that number is, I think Carpone's take-away is a valid analysis.

Hopefully not HC 450 online is the bare minimum needed for a server to be pleasant to play. Experience taken from wow private servers and number of players online per faction numbers. (This is for LFM purposes)

If that 450 is from something other than Wayfinder I don't know how SSG justifies not merging and closing servers to their financial people.

[Kutalp]

Original warrior classes fell back alot in the last years. What players really like at fantasy games is dive in grab a stick and bash things when enjoying optional choices to complete quests in unique ways if we add the adventure part of the gaming sessions.


Simple examples:

Resisting the physical and magical skirmishes through passive innate abilites and spels or spell like abilites and damage soaking : Ranged 1 Melee 0

Caster1 Melee 0


Replenish self as quick as possible if severley injured: Ranged: with standing far away and running away to heal (better if multiclass specialist build Ranger-Artificer and whatsmore... with self healing abilites; which allready Absurd for definiton)

Caster: Just burst healing self and aoe others een if not meant to. Healing self and pet with negative healing double time if your team is also built of Shroud casters.

Melee: Jug pot...cooldown, wand ? oh wait Umd (not your skill) 'Hjeal meh !'


Damage : Caster and ranged 1km away up the edge of a mountain to the plains down there ' Kaa meee haa me haaa ! ' wave...Poof cleared the valley. (Dragon Ball parody)

Melee: 'Wait for it I am almost there !' chugging pots and clickies which rent class based waiting for cooldowns. No effective damage reduction allready half the hp before reaching the opponent. Keep chugging home boy, almost there. Six champs and thrashes while Boss holds the 'Warrior' no chug pots, no damage soaking a few swings from weapon...Buh bye...



Non caster and non specialist, non semi mele/semi ranged characters need double hit points and innate damage soaking abilites (more % and PRR/MRR) against damaging spells and physical attacks. Just to endure it, since they cant and shall not self heal fast;but last longer without healing. (Combining stalward/and or paladin and barb and heal amp and then non warrior wizard and artificer for more HP and Armor class is very funny...And then adding rejuvenating cocoon from destiny and silver flame pots is just hillarious...Why dont casters or ranged/caster aberrants dont need those when front liners melt away and have to multiclass in to other classes ?)


I enjoyed playing all classes but I think only a few builds are truly viable this era. As a result this is pushing people to corner. Now if players are learning the ropes new and see their favorite dream builds not working would they think it is worth the time ?


My humble n00b cents. :)


https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSxej3gi831N0qKXy6a-DoNRTSMDEf0GCD0YCAou6bd1lUcA-Ok&s

[nokowi]

Hopefully not HC 450 online is the bare minimum needed for a server to be pleasant to play. Experience taken from wow private servers and number of players online per faction numbers. (This is for LFM purposes)

If that 450 is from something other than Wayfinder I don't know how SSG justifies not merging and closing servers to their financial people.

They had a troublesome server merger in LOTRO, and since resource management dictates that DDO is largely a copy of what that same team is doing for their bigger game LOTRO, they are unlikely to invest those resources here.

The past LOTRO producers letters have been very similar to the DDO producers letters if you want to see the similarity in design. I haven't checked to see if LOTRO has a hardcore server, but it would not surprise me if it did.

[Kutalp]

They had a troublesome server merger in LOTRO, and since resource management dictates that DDO is largely a copy of what that same team is doing for their bigger game LOTRO, they are unlikely to invest those resources here.

The past LOTRO producers letters have been very similar to the DDO producers letters if you want to see the similarity in design. I haven't checked to see if LOTRO has a hardcore server, but it would not surprise me if it did.









I used to be an active player at LOTRO aswell in the past. Halfling wanderer/craftsman etc...Good times... Anyhow I prefer DDO. The same issues are also there. So no surprise. Almost all mmos also have similar issues lately. Players seem to fast consume and immigrate between games more than ever this era.

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?677036-Time-to-merge-some-servers-for-the-sake-of-your-players&highlight=merge

[nokowi]

I used to be an active player at LOTRO aswell in the past. Halfling wanderer/craftsman etc...Good times... Anyhow I prefer DDO. The same issues are also there. So no surprise. Almost all mmos also have similar issues lately. Players seem to fast consume and immigrate between games more than ever this era.

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?677036-Time-to-merge-some-servers-for-the-sake-of-your-players&highlight=merge

I'd be curious to see if/how the LOTRO and DDO player bases differ, and if issues with lag happen at the same times. I suspect that most lag is being introduced by the dev team (DDO specific), given that years of effort haven't really improved anything. This despite people having 10x the bandwidth, and several times the computing power.

[lyrecono]

I don't know. How many? Do you have actual numbers or are you just being hyperbolic? How many people?

I don't need to imagine - every time I log onto the forums I get the same 12 people who won't shut up about it.

But tell me "what could have been". Name an MMO better than DDO. Then explain why you aren't playing there...

You missed the meaning of the post (and video), the problem being you're in the middle of it and lack an objective viewpoint.
Loose the emotional attachment and compare the number of people now with that of the era when the cap was 20.

As for the blocked people, go take a strawl through the lamania forums, the last 6 years, every update we seem to lose 1 or 2 people who get ignored to the point of frustration.
As for the mmo i'm playing now, it's called "real life". Working on my stats , social life, achievements and family, seems to be more rewarding then ddo.
Quitting ddo felt like quiting an abusive relationship with a cult memeber. Best thing i have done in a long while.
As for improving ddo, for the last 5 years people haver opted plenty of good ideas,if you haven't picked up on them by now, why bother asking, doesn't seem like you're intrested in the slightest.


"I don't know. How many? Do you have actual numbers or are you just being hyperbolic? How many people?"

In other words, as usual, you can't back up your assertions with any actual proof. And you want me to do your homework for you.
LOL. I'm not running "interference", I have issues with SSG but I make my thoughts know privately, in a civil polite manner.

I'm just sick of hearing the same people whine all over the forums about the whatever their latest gripe is. Like kids who are told they can't get the toy they want but go on and on and on about how unfair it is.

If you aren't getting your way, try interacting with the devs in a civil respectful manner, stop making everything so adversarial. It's not us against them.

And if you are really this unhappy with the game, go play something else. Stop haunting the forums, trying to shame SSG into giving into your tantrums. It's annoying.

Many of us have stopped playing ddo (and paying for it).
The actual bile is spewed in places where a higher level of free speech exists, the conversation here is not to change devs minds, we have been incapable of doing so for a long time now, it does however show the neutral people who are honnest and who are willing to show a blind eye, for profit or some undeserved emotional connection.


I'd be curious to see if/how the LOTRO and DDO player bases differ, and if issues with lag happen at the same times. I suspect that most lag is being introduced by the dev team (DDO specific), given that years of effort haven't really improved anything. This despite people having 10x the bandwidth, and several times the computing power.
With the increase in cpu/gpu/ram/other pc hardware and internet speeds, i assumed the lag was caused merely by incompentence and poor choice of server host.
Is there a possibility people are getting their bandwith squeezed on ssg's end?

[frepla]

"I don't know. How many? Do you have actual numbers or are you just being hyperbolic? How many people?"



In other words, as usual, you can't back up your assertions with any actual proof. And you want me to do your homework for you.





LOL. I'm not running "interference", I have issues with SSG but I make my thoughts know privately, in a civil polite manner.

I'm just sick of hearing the same people whine all over the forums about the whatever their latest gripe is. Like kids who are told they can't get the toy they want but go on and on and on about how unfair it is.

If you aren't getting your way, try interacting with the devs in a civil respectful manner, stop making everything so adversarial. It's not us against them.

And if you are really this unhappy with the game, go play something else. Stop haunting the forums, trying to shame SSG into giving into your tantrums. It's annoying.

Your post is really coming off as rude, and Chai did not deserve these "mild bashings". Also if you joined in 2019, yet you claim to have returned to the game after a couple of years, *ahem*, may I ask why not use your original forum account? Perhaps, erm, you had some infractions piling up in a bad manner? Pun intended.
Also you say: "I'm just sick of hearing the same people whine all over the forums": you have any data on that? Like statistics and such? I mean I complained about some things, then praised some other things, so I guess i would not fall into this "bad group"?

But to answer one of the core point of yours: how would server merge solve anything? There is plenty of lag even when a server is nowhere near full (I suspect that the bank and ASAH exploit fixes/tracking/preventive mechanisms have a great deal to do with lag, so if the devs wanna fix something, maybe they should check those things or revamp containers, banks, and auction/shard houses) so how would merging servers reduce lag, by throwing together a whole lot of people, using banks, doing raids, etc?

[Chai]

And if you are really this unhappy with the game, go play something else. Stop haunting the forums, trying to shame SSG into giving into your tantrums. It's annoying.

To many people already took that advice.

I gave you the recipe for getting those numbers, all the way down to the search modes and search terms. Took us 8 minutes to run the aggregation. You've taken multiplicitvely longer than that to issue challenges, but wont even enter into the debate with a premise and your own numbers on the table. Once again I'm more than happy to have this discussion on equal footing. Premise up and bring your own evidence, and be equally as beholden to defending your own point as you challenge others to and then and ONLY then do you get to issue challenges for others to do the same.

Until then, thank you for attending the lecture. Its not a debate with only one premise on the table.

[Chai]

LOL. I'm not running "interference", I have issues with SSG but I make my thoughts know privately, in a civil polite manner.

I'm just sick of hearing the same people whine all over the forums about the whatever their latest gripe is. Like kids who are told they can't get the toy they want but go on and on and on about how unfair it is.

If you aren't getting your way, try interacting with the devs in a civil respectful manner, stop making everything so adversarial. It's not us against them.

And if you are really this unhappy with the game, go play something else. Stop haunting the forums, trying to shame SSG into giving into your tantrums. It's annoying.

So your points are all made "respectively", then you paint those who disagree as throwing tantrums, like kids who cant have a toy?

No sir, we are equally as polite and civil as you are. The reason you attack the posters rather than addressing the post itself is because you have no answer for the points made, not even willing to enter the discussion on equal footing, having been given multiple chances to do so.

Confirmation bias is a helluva drug. Attack the post, not the poster. Stop telling people to leave if they dont like it, put a horse into the race, premise up , and join us in the discussion. Show us how they can retain players rather than telling them to leave.

Show us the recipe for player retention. Show us how the current system is working for just that, or if you also believe its not, show us the alternative.

[Sylvado]

With the increase in cpu/gpu/ram/other pc hardware and internet speeds, i assumed the lag was caused merely by incompentence and poor choice of server host.
Is there a possibility people are getting their bandwith squeezed on ssg's end?

More likely peering agreements which are not controlled by SSG

[krimsonrane]

[/b]

So your points are all made "respectively", then you paint those who disagree as throwing tantrums, like kids who cant have a toy?

No sir, we are equally as polite and civil as you are. The reason you attack the posters rather than addressing the post itself is because you have no answer for the points made, not even willing to enter the discussion on equal footing, having been given multiple chances to do so.

Confirmation bias is a helluva drug. Attack the post, not the poster. Stop telling people to leave if they dont like it, put a horse into the race, premise up , and join us in the discussion. Show us how they can retain players rather than telling them to leave.

Show us the recipe for player retention. Show us how the current system is working for just that, or if you also believe its not, show us the alternative.

Chai you've always been more polite than me. That's for sure. They sound like drumpf talkers to me.

[apocaladle]

1. Lag - Please stop introducing new content until lag is fixed. ALL HANDS ON DECK! At times the game is unplayable due to lag. This is unacceptable.

2. Low Server Populations - Either merge servers or allow cross server play! This game is not fun when there is nobody to play with or when raids are difficult to fill. This issue got much worse when HC server was open - live servers were a ghost-town.

Surely SSG is aware of both of these issues. Fix them soon or you will continue to see people leave the game. You have a great game. Don’t blow it !

1. Thats a farily narrow viewpoint, asking them to stop making content would kill the player base faster than the lag. Also all hands? Better put the book keepers, artists and cleaning staff on fixing lag that'll help /s. They do have dedicated people work on lag all the time but its a balancing act of keeping a game afloat with spending resources wisely, there is only so much money and time per update and on top of that lag is a very messy issue with it is not like there is a single solution as it hits most players differently and is caused by a lot of different things. Quickest way to ger of lag is to find the biggest contributors and rip the systems out but a lot of those would break the game for example the aggro system can cause crazy lag depending on the dungeon, cant really rip out the whole aggro system. Takes a lot more finess and time and money put into many areas that cause lag to try to make them more efficiant. Even once you have a fix it may not be quick either for example the famous ladder bug, they do have a fix but it has to be manually fixed on every ladder for every race. So 20x on every bugged ladder. It's not quick and for the time to go over every ladder on every race on over 250 quests would be a crazy amount of dev time.

2.server merge: if they deemed it was financially benificial to spend the huge amount of time and moneu to merge servers they would have, its not a big secret everyone except the devs know. For example yhe TR cache a notorious ancient system that if touched in the wrong way could lose everyones items, cosmetic pets, guilds. All of those would need a system built to move it on top of the public image to investors of server merging means game is dying. Also the same people would be working on both of these issues. System engineers.

[LurkingVeteran]

More likely peering agreements which are not controlled by SSG

They can be, if that really was the problem. Ultimately, SSG chooses their host. As a last resort, it is not uncommon to switch cloud provider.

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

1. Lag - Please stop introducing new content until lag is fixed. ALL HANDS ON DECK! At times the game is unplayable due to lag. This is unacceptable.

2. Low Server Populations - Either merge servers or allow cross server play! This game is not fun when there is nobody to play with or when raids are difficult to fill. This issue got much worse when HC server was open - live servers were a ghost-town.

Surely SSG is aware of both of these issues. Fix them soon or you will continue to see people leave the game. You have a great game. Don’t blow it !

Pretty sure somewhere there is a sad Pennywise the clown due to that last part.....

[Anuulified]

1. Lag - Please stop introducing new content until lag is fixed. ALL HANDS ON DECK! At times the game is unplayable due to lag. This is unacceptable.

2. Low Server Populations - Either merge servers or allow cross server play! This game is not fun when there is nobody to play with or when raids are difficult to fill. This issue got much worse when HC server was open - live servers were a ghost-town.

Surely SSG is aware of both of these issues. Fix them soon or you will continue to see people leave the game. You have a great game. Don’t blow it !

1. Your posts.

2. My replies.

[Fenrisulven7]

So your points are all made "respectively", then you paint those who disagree as throwing tantrums, like kids who cant have a toy?

No . I said my complaints about SSG are made to SSG privately, with courtesy and respect. People throwing public tantrums don't deserve to be treated respectfully.

This is the 3rd time you have misrepresented what I said. It's become a pattern with you Chai. And I think it's deliberate. Be better.




No sir, we are equally as polite and civil as you are.

LOL "sir", you first personalized this by implying I'm a shill "running interference" (your words) for SSG. You shot first, if you don't like catching return fire, apologize...

And your side has falsely accused SSG of all kinds unethical acts (in one case, "criminal acts" over the Inheritance price point), because they wouldn't fix your latest pet cause immediately.

And when other players have correctly pointed to Devs saying they are doing everything they can to identify and kill the lag, you side has referred to them as "fanbois'

Entire threads started by your side have had to be locked and pulled off of the forums. And not a single time have you called out these people on your own side and asked them to tone it down. You are complicit.

So go play your Eddie Haskell routine on someone else. It won't fly here.




as polite and civil as you are

And for future reference, I would avoid these kinds of equivalences. Else, you'll fall prey to the trap cheaters find themselves in, where they justify cheating because they "believe" the other guy is cheating.

When it's later shown that he is not cheating, he's just good, they alone are marked as One Who Cheats. You don't want to be That Guy.

Your ethics should based on what you think is right and wrong, not on what you "believe" the other guy is doing.




The reason you attack the posters rather than addressing the post itself is because -

You might also avoid making assumptions like this about other people's motives. You are not perceptive enough to sleuth them out.

Hell, this is the 3rd time I've had to correct basic reading comprehension. Start small and try getting that right first. If you don't understand me, ask don't assume.





Stop telling people to leave if they don't like it. Show us how they can retain players rather than telling them to leave.

No. It's a valid solution, as I think some of you "just want to see the world burn". You would be happier playing another game, or at least WE would if you were. Geez...

Now, if you want to complain/advise SSG about the game with courtesy and respect, I've got no problem with that. I think player feedback is great and devs should listen to it.

But that doesn't mean pounding the devs on the forums because you don't think they are giving you the proper attention you deserve. Which is what's happening lately. Alot.




Show us the recipe for player retention. Show us how the current system is working for just that, or if you also believe its not, show us the alternative.

No. I message my complaints and ideas for solutions to SSG. I am not required to run them by you or the forums. I do not have to explain them to you or show you anything.

And please, the point of these threads is not to provide "recipes for alternatives", it's about stomping your feet and shaming SSG on the forums until they give in to what you want.

It's toxic, it runs players off, and it's "one of things that are killing this game". And I've already explained how you can fix that. Either in this thread or one of the last 12 Complainer Threads.

[Fenrisulven7]

Here ya go Chai - this is a good example of someone not only providing constructive feedback, but who is also aware that there could be other reasons things aren't fixed than "SSG Bad"

Strangely enough, griping 24/7 on the forums about it will NOT get it fixed any sooner...


1. That's a fairly narrow viewpoint, asking them to stop making content would kill the player base faster than the lag. Also all hands? Better put the book keepers, artists and cleaning staff on fixing lag that'll help /s. They do have dedicated people work on lag all the time but its a balancing act of keeping a game afloat with spending resources wisely, there is only so much money and time per update and on top of that lag is a very messy issue with it is not like there is a single solution as it hits most players differently and is caused by a lot of different things. Quickest way to ger of lag is to find the biggest contributors and rip the systems out but a lot of those would break the game for example the aggro system can cause crazy lag depending on the dungeon, cant really rip out the whole aggro system. Takes a lot more finess and time and money put into many areas that cause lag to try to make them more efficient. Even once you have a fix it may not be quick either for example the famous ladder bug, they do have a fix but it has to be manually fixed on every ladder for every race. So 20x on every bugged ladder. It's not quick and for the time to go over every ladder on every race on over 250 quests would be a crazy amount of dev time.

2.server merge: if they deemed it was financially beneficial to spend the huge amount of time and money to merge servers they would have, its not a big secret everyone except the devs know. For example the TR cache a notorious ancient system that if touched in the wrong way could lose everyone's items, cosmetic pets, guilds. All of those would need a system built to move it on top of the public image to investors of server merging means game is dying. Also the same people would be working on both of these issues. System engineers.

Good post. Server merges are my cause, but I realize SSG may have good reasons that I am not privy too or don't have a right to know. Either that, or it's in the works and being fine-tuned.

Either way, my time would be better spent in Gianthold knocking down Minatars.

[Fenrisulven7]

They sound like drumpf talkers to me.

What is a drumpf talker? Some kind of political reference? I thought those were out of bounds?

You can msg me privately if you are afraid to speak to me directly in public

[Fenrisulven7]

if you joined in 2019, yet you claim to have returned to the game after a couple of years, *ahem*, may I ask why not use your original forum account?

I've been here since Gianthold was cap, under Fenrisulven6. I left around 2013 after the big "icy burst" nerf, where the min level of items you had applied recipes to was raised, rendering them trash.

I came back in Jan 2019 because I convinced the wife to start gaming with me. And I thought DDO was a good place to start her (it was either this or Mechwarrior, an FPS)


I'm not on my old account because I lost the login name/password info, and the email associated from back then is inoperative. CS says they can't really help me without the login name.

Which is a bummer, because I have a ton of great raid gear that is currently locked up on my old Thelanis account. I had to start a fresh account.



Perhaps, erm, you had some infractions piling up in a bad manner?

But thank you for assuming the worst of me. It's really great how you guys keep making my points for me :cool:

[jkalten]

What is a drumpf talker? Some kind of political reference? I thought those were out of bounds?

You can msg me privately if you are afraid to speak to me directly in public

Mango Mussolini followers.

[Erokir]

I experience lag every time I play, and I play nearly every day. Further, every time I experience lag, everyone in my group experiences the lag, so it's definitely not a player-computer issue.

I'm not a tech guy either, so I can't offer any specific suggestions on how to fix the lag. I only know that it makes the game just about unplayable at times, and that can't be good for business or for the game. All the new content in the world won't matter if playing the game is frustrating.
Games aren't fun when they are patently unfair. Being held in place by the lag while mobs kill you is patently unfair and frustrating.

And not only is it frustrating, but the lag actually makes me nauseated. When my eyes are tracking my toon, and everything on the screen halts and zooms in unpredictable ways, it messes with my eye focus and nauseates me after not too long. A product causing the user to feel nauseated also can't be good for business.

Fixing the lag should be top priority. Nothing else matters if the game isn't fun to play.

After that, re-populating the servers should be second priority. Orien still looks pretty popular, but the other servers have taken a hit. Merging some of them might be a good idea.

We love the game and want to see it thrive. Please take the recommendations in this thread seriously.

[Chai]

No . I said my complaints about SSG are made to SSG privately, with courtesy and respect. People throwing public tantrums don't deserve to be treated respectfully.

This is the 3rd time you have misrepresented what I said. It's become a pattern with you Chai. And I think it's deliberate. Be better.





LOL "sir", you first personalized this by implying I'm a shill "running interference" (your words) for SSG. You shot first, if you don't like catching return fire, apologize...

And your side has falsely accused SSG of all kinds unethical acts (in one case, "criminal acts" over the Inheritance price point), because they wouldn't fix your latest pet cause immediately.

And when other players have correctly pointed to Devs saying they are doing everything they can to identify and kill the lag, you side has referred to them as "fanbois'

Entire threads started by your side have had to be locked and pulled off of the forums. And not a single time have you called out these people on your own side and asked them to tone it down. You are complicit.

So go play your Eddie Haskell routine on someone else. It won't fly here.





And for future reference, I would avoid these kinds of equivalences. Else, you'll fall prey to the trap cheaters find themselves in, where they justify cheating because they "believe" the other guy is cheating.

When it's later shown that he is not cheating, he's just good, they alone are marked as One Who Cheats. You don't want to be That Guy.

Your ethics should based on what you think is right and wrong, not on what you "believe" the other guy is doing.





You might also avoid making assumptions like this about other people's motives. You are not perceptive enough to sleuth them out.

Hell, this is the 3rd time I've had to correct basic reading comprehension. Start small and try getting that right first. If you don't understand me, ask don't assume.






No. It's a valid solution, as I think some of you "just want to see the world burn". You would be happier playing another game, or at least WE would if you were. Geez...

Now, if you want to complain/advise SSG about the game with courtesy and respect, I've got no problem with that. I think player feedback is great and devs should listen to it.

But that doesn't mean pounding the devs on the forums because you don't think they are giving you the proper attention you deserve. Which is what's happening lately. Alot.





No. I message my complaints and ideas for solutions to SSG. I am not required to run them by you or the forums. I do not have to explain them to you or show you anything.

And please, the point of these threads is not to provide "recipes for alternatives", it's about stomping your feet and shaming SSG on the forums until they give in to what you want.
It's toxic, it runs players off, and it's "one of things that are killing this game". And I've already explained how you can fix that. Either in this thread or one of the last 12 Complainer Threads.

Per this post, your continued replies have provided the sample size needed to narrow down through word/term analysis the previous account this one is covering for. Thanks for this. We now know who this is. Its no surprise. We've had this discussion before. :p

The real toxic behavior here is the misrepresentation of everyone who disagrees, along with telling them to leave if they dont like it. This, combined with the continued attempts of bait-reporting (using a ban evasion account no less) is a heavy contributor to #2 in the OPs list - low server populations. This forum has a significant history of this behavior - attempting to stifle disagreement using heavy application of neg rep, and after that was abused enough to be removed, abuse of the reporting system (bait reporting, goad reporting, etc).

Too many people already took the advice of "dont like it, leave" - but that advice doesnt need to be given in an environment where their feedback can be posted without the same usual suspects misrepresenting them as doomsayers and telling them to stop posting, simply because they would like to see some QoL changes, or a change in direction from the status quo.

Funny thing is, I pretty much N-E-V-E-R run into these people in the game. Either people reserve this attitude for the forums alone, and are super cool in game, or the same usual suspects on the forums dont play the game or play minimally enough to have escaped notice. When these conversations happen inside in-game chat, or in Discord, the misrepresentation and same usual suspects bait reporting the same other usual suspects simply doesnt occur. No one ever gets told if they dont like it they should quit. Are these even the same people?

[Avocado]

the two things that killing this game are people tell others that if like dont like it they can leave or just more broadly negativity and toxicity in and out of game. And old age. The game is old, and everything that has a beginning has an end. This is just a side effect of age. Im not convinced anything would really bring people back to this game and make it less dieing. Once people have left for good, they dont come back. New players might be a temporary solution but the top priority of the devs is not to retain and rework the game for people fresh off the boat of korthos, so this probably wont happen.

[pSINNa]

I detest seeing these types of posts.

I happen to love the game.

10 years of on and off again play and there is nothing else on the market I've found that comes close to the complexity, the close (but not perfect, nothing could be really) adherence to PNP D&D, the sheer breadth of content, etc, etc.

Players that continue to financially support the company that administers this institution of an MMO will keep it alive.

Returning players that are received well, and brought into the fold of active guilds that still raid and quest together to help re-gear them and re-build their old characters to the new mechanics will keep it alive.

Players that are active on Youtube and other social media platforms producing guides and tutorials for quests, raids, crafting, and character build/play will keep it alive.

Like the song says "nothing else matters'

Coit out :)

[nokowi]

I detest seeing these types of posts.

I happen to love the game.

Have you considered that someone that loves the game can be worried about the topics of the OP?

I can both love a game or activity and be able to be concerned about it's longevity at the same time. I'm not sure why you think they are opposing things, or why you believe your love for the game is something unique or differentiating here.

People would not be taking the time to post if they didn't care.

[Brutuscass]

Too many people already took the advice of "dont like it, leave" - but that advice doesnt need to be given in an environment where their feedback can be posted without the same usual suspects misrepresenting them as doomsayers and telling them to stop posting, simply because they would like to see some QoL changes, or a change in direction from the status quo.


On the above maybe if people did not keep posting on issues that inflame the debates, the opportunity for the behaviour you are pointing out here would not occur as much!

Yes I agree with you, before you jump down my throat virtually, that a forum is a place to voice opinions, however when they do so without fully researching the matter and giving thought before hand, it can be inflammatory, and pointless.

for example the OP here is stating two conditions they feel are as they say 'Killing the game'.
Now if they had taken the time to research the matter they would have read SEV's statement in 2015

As SEV stated back at the end of 2015
"We plan on revisiting the idea of server merges after we've moved to the new datacenter which is slated for in sometime in the new year.
We want to make sure we have lag under control before we concentrate the players. We recently made some fairly large changes to help combat lag, particularly in the Stormhorns and other places where monsters can use persistent AoE effects. We haven't heard any feedback that lag is reduced, but the nature of that beast is that we only hear about it when lag is bad.
There are some obstacles to overcome, like making sure shared storage and guild move over and players have good tools to deal with name collisions for both characters and guilds."

Note that SEV refers to the issue of lag as being something that they need to address before the Server merge and also note that he is talking about a server merge!

From this it is clear that SSG is fully aware of the situation, and be sure they will be working on it.

There is no question about whether we need or even want a server merge, we are going to get one whether we like it or not!

The only question is when. and the answer is all there above in SEV's statement!!

We will get one when SSG is good and ready to do it smoothly and NOT before!!!!

As I keep saying the Game is not dying, it is illogical to state that it is dying, given all the recent investment in it!

If a server merge were urgently needed to save the game then as a business SSG would have done so by now! I am sure they know their own business and have a far better idea of server population than people whom from what I can see seem to spend large proportions of their time consumed with posting on the forum, I've been on the forum for just over 10 years and still haven't racked up 200 posts let alone thousands! why because I spend a lot of my time playing the game rather than complaining about, and I tend to look into things before just firing off pointless posts!

And yes I will state clearly that this discussion is pointless as no amount of moaning here will change what SSG can and will do, but if someone who is new to the game comes across all this negative doom saying, 'the end of the game world is neigh' stuff then there is a chance that they will go find a more positive environment!

Patience is a virtue, though sadly one sorely lacking at times on this forum!

I really wonder how some people would have performed on the Marshmallow test as children! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rwxf1BTyKz4 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47DmUM7MW7s

In the case of the continued complaining, not only are people ringing the bell (posting) in order to get the lesser reward (in this case requesting a merge before SSG is ready to provide a fully comprehensive merge) , they are also trying to shoot themselves in the foot, if indeed their true concern is really the health of the game and population.

[Captain_Wizbang]

new player retention with some thoughtful ways to bridge massive grindwall
gap without giveaways or P2W


IMHO this is the #1 issue holding this game back.

The hamster wheel is exactly what the devs call it, "DDO is a wheel" quote from DDO Players interview last month. They know it, and promote it VS spending the money to revamp the UI new players face from the moment they open the game.

As for the grind, I personally have never been caught up in it. I'd rather play mediocre toons on leet than be subject to the "more more more" mentality.

The game states 6 difficulty settings. I see 3, norm, leet & reaper which is a joke in itself.

Revamp the UI, add pop-up 30 second videos from npc's for new players. And promote experiencing the entire game and not the mythical (and nonexistent) end-game mentality.

[Brutuscass]

IMHO this is the #1 issue holding this game back.

The hamster wheel is exactly what the devs call it, "DDO is a wheel" quote from DDO Players interview last month. They know it, and promote it VS spending the money to revamp the UI new players face from the moment they open the game.

Ah that wheel;)


As for the grind, I personally have never been caught up in it. I'd rather play mediocre toons on leet than be subject to the "more more more" mentality.

yup, play for fun and when the fun stops it time to stop playing.


The game states 6 difficulty settings. I see 3, norm, leet & reaper which is a joke in itself.

6?? that is confusing I get five (or 14 depending on how you look at it) though not 3, Causal, normal, hard, elite. reaper (1 to 10)


Revamp the UI, add pop-up 30 second videos from npc's for new players. And promote experiencing the entire game and not the mythical (and nonexistent) end-game mentality.

I agree with you here.

[Chai]

Here ya go Chai - this is a good example of someone not only providing constructive feedback, but who is also aware that there could be other reasons things aren't fixed than "SSG Bad"

Strangely enough, griping 24/7 on the forums about it will NOT get it fixed any sooner...

Theres nothing in that that addresses or refutes what the quoted/OP posted in the first place. What it does is regurgitate all of the old cliches, and is no more or less constructive than the feedback you disagree with, none if which is "SSG bad" as you claim, and much of which is very specific.


Good post. Server merges are my cause, but I realize SSG may have good reasons that I am not privy too or don't have a right to know. Either that, or it's in the works and being fine-tuned.

Either way, my time would be better spent in Gianthold knocking down Minatars.

You also proved here that since you agree with it, you label it "constructive" - the issue is when its something you disagree with, instead of addressing it directly (likely because the logic is correct and cant be refuted objectively), the poster gets attacked and labeled a doomsayer and is told to quit playing if they dont like it. This is before we discuss the same bias against a single digit number of posters over years of time, in a pattern based fashion.

Example. They claim there is only so much money and resources per update as the reason. You wont quote them and demand their evidence of this claim like you will someone you disagree with. If those you disagree with dont have that insider information, neither does those you agree with.

I can also tell you through 20 years of industry experience their claim of
Quickest way to ger of lag is to find the biggest contributors and rip the systems out but a lot of those would break the game to be wildly incorrect. I have yet to see a fix for lag being ripping an entire system out of the game. But hey, dont take our word for it, look at the evidence right? In the context of DDO, case history on these forums shows this also to be incorrect, as when sources of lag HAVE been discussed the way they are addressed has not been to rip entire systems from the game. Things like too many physics checks (U9 twf nerf) and too many active mobs causing lag (dungeon alert) were not addressed by ripping entire systems from the game.

Game history shows that posts to be wildly inaccurate and just as rife (even more rife) with assumptions (proven incorrect per above) than posts you disagree with but since you agree with that post (even though its wrong) you dont quote it and demand he same evidence of someone passing their observations off as fact like you do when you disagree.

I find this one to be especially hilarious, for the following reasons.


server merge: if they deemed it was financially beneficial to spend the huge amount of time and money to merge servers they would have, its not a big secret everyone except the devs know. For example the TR cache a notorious ancient system that if touched in the wrong way could lose everyone's items, cosmetic pets, guilds.

The bolded has already happened often enough, without them ever addressing it. "touched in the wrong way?" it happens anyway whether they touch it or not. Here the poster is using the ACTUAL PROBLEM, as an excuse for not solving the problem? Nonsense.


All of those would need a system built to move it on top of

The company has had 10 years to do that. Archive.org shows the first reports for people losing their items in TR go all the way back to 2009. It still happens today, so hasnt been addressed other than telling people to restart the game often between stages when TRing. (implying the issue is on the player end when it is clearly not)


the public image to investors of server merging means game is dying.

Often repeated and incorrect cliche. Plenty of games have revived their concurrency after server merges. Some older than DDO. EQ1, OSRS, WOW - to name a few. The issue is not that merging servers drives people away. Merging, then going in to maintenance mode and DOING NOTHING ELSE other than merging is what drives them away. EQ and WOW both merged then launched classic servers and saw a concurrency revival. OSRS merged and created two different tiers of servers with two different METAS, one with cash shop influence, and one with no cash shop influence. They are popular enough again where regular stores are signing deals to sell their game cards.

Had you demanded the evidence, or done the homework, youd see the evidence refutes the statements you agree with here. But since you agreed with it you didnt challenge in a biased fashion.

The idea of having to rip entire systems from a game to fix lag got some lols around our studio here. You dont fix potholes by demolishing the entire street and repaving the whole thing. Its as ridiculous as the meme where people burn the entire house down to kill the spider. Somehow that was a "good post" but folks suggesting fixes for the long standing issues are doomsayers who should quit the game?

Yeah, thats gonna be a no from me dawg. :p

[jkalten]

Often repeated and incorrect cliche. Plenty of games have revived their concurrency after server merges. Some older than DDO. EQ1, OSRS, WOW - to name a few. The issue is not that merging servers drives people away. Merging, then going in to maintenance mode and DOING NOTHING ELSE other than merging is what drives them away. EQ and WOW both merged then launched classic servers and saw a concurrency revival. OSRS merged and created two different tiers of servers with two different METAS, one with cash shop influence, and one with no cash shop influence. They are popular enough again where regular stores are signing deals to sell their game cards.

Not sure WoW should be in that list as at least last I knew they didn't really merge but locked the servers into groups that were together on different servers. It was. a kind of chicken way of doing a merge that seems like an incredibly complicated so as they could avoid server merge bad pr.

[Amorais]

Ugh - wouldn't want legacy servers. The game is much better now than at launch IMO.

Game doesnt seem to be dying, just doing what any game thats been out for over 12 years would be expected to do.

Bit of marketing would help though. I go to conventions and role playing meets and none of them ever has any reference to DDO or marketing materials etc.

[OzmarDDO]

2. Low Server Populations - Either merge servers or allow cross server play! This game is not fun when there is nobody to play with or when raids are difficult to fill. This issue got much worse when HC server was open - live servers were a ghost-town.


Solution: Free server transfers. Then we can all migrate to one and raise the population.

-Ozmar the Helpful

[Chai]

Not sure WoW should be in that list as at least last I knew they didn't really merge but locked the servers into groups that were together on different servers. It was. a kind of chicken way of doing a merge that seems like an incredibly complicated so as they could avoid server merge bad pr.

They merged more than once. None of my characters are on the same servers they were on originally. Alot of characters got free renames due to it.

[Wizard1406]

Just free transfers alone aren't really the solution because the loss of server unlocks and players split among many servers. You'd want group-minded MMO players to congregate on a server, otherwise DDO's population is too low, at least outside of weekend and US prime time.


A player-friendly solution to the low population and low group participation issue could be:


- Open new server that is tagged as "group play server" (needs better description)

- Offer free transfers to said server (this is already in game and seems automatic so probably nearly free to SSG)

- Work out how to transfer server-only things, like shards, unlocks, guilds (items from banks will be able to transferred over with a lot of mules, if transfers are free).
Could record what a player has on server x and then once an account has no more characters on server X, remove it from server x and offer vouchers to get it back on the new server.

This step is kinda optional but it seems doubtful many people transfer over if this is not done. After all people grinded long or paid RL money for all these things and losing them when starting over on a new server is a big loss.



That way nobody loses their server, no name problems and people that are happy soloing or playing in static / guild only groups they can stay on their old server.

Of course the problem is server unlock transfers, working it out could cost a lot of work money. Also some people would be angry if their server loses population due to new server but they don't want to transfer over. (But hardcore did the same, so....)

[jkalten]

They merged more than once. None of my characters are on the same servers they were on originally. Alot of characters got free renames due to it.

Interesting, I'll have to read a bit more about it then.

[Fenrisulven7]

The real toxic behavior here is the misrepresentation of everyone who disagrees

Well, you've misrepresented my words 4 times now, how about you stop doing that?



This, combined with the continued attempts of bait-reporting (using a ban evasion account no less) is a heavy contributor to #2 in the OPs list - low server populations. This forum has a significant history of this behavior - attempting to stifle disagreement using heavy application of neg rep, and after that was abused enough to be removed, abuse of the reporting system (bait reporting, goad reporting, etc).

No idea what you are talking about, as I have not "bait-reported" anyone, despite the constant attacks. I prefer mods use a light hand. Even in cases like yours, although you do have the pattern of a forum bully.

As for your attempt to imply I am using some kind of "ban evasion account", see my post upthread. You somehow managed to miss it before you launched into your false accusations again:



I've been here since Gianthold was cap, under Fenrisulven6. I left around 2013 after the big "icy burst" nerf, where the min level of items you had applied recipes to was raised, rendering them trash.

I came back in Jan 2019 because I convinced the wife to start gaming with me. And I thought DDO was a good place to start her (it was either this or Mechwarrior, an FPS)

I'm not on my old account because I lost the login name/password info, and the email associated from back then is inoperative. CS says they can't really help me without the login name.

Which is a bummer, because I have a ton of great raid gear that is currently locked up on my old Thelanis account. I had to start a fresh account.

[Dark_Lord_Mary]

The server populations are wildly varied - there are a few servers that have no one (like Wayfinder and Thelanis)

The lag has been terrible since whatever broke the mob pathing occurred. Yes SSG realized x2 restarts per week would reduce the lag and fix the issue but that is a bandaid. The recent fix to the non-collapsing guild ship instances did not address the lag as they hoped it would. There is a greater issue on the server.

Today I logged into Sarlona with a 29 ping and 0% loss and I could not move; the server was lagged for 10 minutes I was frozen in place. I mean buy me a drink first ...

If you ask me the fix involves two things:
1. New modern hardware (sorry SSG its time so scrap the Windows Millenium server)
and
2. Rethink the SSG job position 'programmer' - fire someone (Merry Xmas) - and Hire a new wiz programmer who understands the binary language of moisture vaporators and can also sort it out DDO's aged and jury-rigged server code.

[jkalten]

2. Rethink the SSG job position 'programmer' - fire someone (Merry Xmas) - and Hire a new wiz programmer who understands the binary language of moisture vaporators and can also sort it out DDO's aged and jury-rigged server code.

This isn't the way things work. Hiring a new wiz is probably why TR cache code is reportedly a nightmare. You don't want clever code.

[Brutuscass]

The server populations are wildly varied - there are a few servers that have no one (like Wayfinder and Thelanis).

I'll be honest in admitting that I can't really say much about wayfinder, I only log on there a few times a week these days to roll on the dice;) but often there are players around the bank in the harbour for the few second that I am there, so that is a little more than the no one that you state.

But Thelanis!!!! you have got to be kidding me! I play a lot and at various times of the day and even at low peak there are people playing, and at peak the who list is very healthy, even without my toon showing on the list, due to me being generally anonymous as no doubt others will be, I say no doubt based on observational evidence, such as noticing that in groups on an LFM there are players named as 'anonymous' on one recent glance, I noted 3 groups up with anonymous members.

At what time EST are you finding no one on Thelanis and for how long are you testing this?


EDIT: The Xmas spirit I had consumed earlier is wearing off now and I have reread you post. LOL
would a DHC-3PO droid help with the 'moisture vaporators' in your option:eek:



If you ask me the fix involves two things:
1. New modern hardware (sorry SSG its time so scrap the Windows Millenium server)
and
2. Rethink the SSG job position 'programmer' - fire someone (Merry Xmas) - and Hire a new wiz programmer who understands the binary language of moisture vaporators and can also sort it out DDO's aged and jury-rigged server code.

"Vaporators! Sir, my first job was programming binary loadlifters (https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Binary_loadlifter/Legends)—very similar to your vaporators in most respects."


P.S. go here and check the graphs if you are still going to make wild claim about Thelanis!

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/510866-Returning-player-after-long-time-which-server

[ncdonaldevs]

1. bad management.

2. greed.

[Fenrisulven7]

The lag has been terrible since whatever broke the mob pathing occurred. Today I logged into Sarlona with a 29 ping and 0% loss and I could not move; the server was lagged for 10 min

Is it possible this is server related? I know nothing about latency dynamics, but I am seeing NO lag on Ghallanda, and I'm playing peak hours, Eastern time zone.

We have better hamsters? :cool: (okay sry not funny...)


The last time I experienced lag that was noteworthy was some rubberbanding back when KOTB was released, over a month ago.

I'm not saying YOU aren't going through lag hell, just that it doesn't appear to be global.




This isn't the way things work. Hiring a new wiz is probably why TR cache code is reportedly a nightmare. You don't want clever code.

Seems to be SOP for every game I've played - there is some ancient code left by someone who has moved on, and no one else can make sense of it.

I thought there was more standardization in computer languages? Of course, I bailed C++ 201 so what do I know...

[karatemack]

1. Lag - Please stop introducing new content until lag is fixed. ALL HANDS ON DECK! At times the game is unplayable due to lag. This is unacceptable.

2. Low Server Populations - Either merge servers or allow cross server play! This game is not fun when there is nobody to play with or when raids are difficult to fill. This issue got much worse when HC server was open - live servers were a ghost-town.

Surely SSG is aware of both of these issues. Fix them soon or you will continue to see people leave the game. You have a great game. Don’t blow it !

Sorry to hear about your lag experience.

If you're looking for a group of people to regularly game/raid with... then drop me a PM and I can connect you with an active group (depending on the times you play).

Don't depend on the dev team to shape your game experience in a positive way, you'll only get frustrated. Build a community and enjoy what the game is or walk away like many others have. And no, I'm not saying that you should just quit DDO... but really the dev team has zero interest in our ideas/suggestions/concerns. Chai is correct that the suggestion to leave if you don't like it complicates the problem. An alternate suggestion... funnel your passion for this game into creating your own. A few of us have decided to take this path as well. It is far less frustrating and exponentially more rewarding.

That said... even those of us who have given up on the dev team of this game still stick around (even if in a much diminished capacity) because one thing that's absolutely the BEST about DDO is the players. So again, if you (or anyone else) is looking for a fun group to hang with or need a community to plug into... shoot me a PM and I'll get you connected with some of the very best people.

[Letrii]

Seems to be SOP for every game I've played - there is some ancient code left by someone who has moved on, and no one else can make sense of it.

I thought there was more standardization in computer languages? Of course, I bailed C++ 201 so what do I know...


Spaghetti code, sometimes caused by previous programmer not using remarks since they knew the code and didn't feel need. Of course they no longer work there and new programmer has no clue what this string of code is for since no remarks.

[ncdonaldevs]

Server merge is not a solution.

We need to make this game D&D, not a generic fantasy game like it is now.

Improve grouping, now it is a single player game that sometimes ppl group up.

And stop to ignore the best part of the game: melee combat and stealth.