Is fire druid viable in the current climate?

[Maelodic]

I haven't seen any threads with a fire caster druid. I know that water druids are certainly more popular and Mantle is better than Anger and Creeping Cold and Greater Creeping Cold and Freezing Spray and BOGW are all the jams.

From what I can tell, the pros that fire has going for it is:
Body of the Sun + Firewall Combo
Fire Storm/Fire Strike/Fire Seeds for nukes
Opens up Divine Crusader for sacred ground as another aoe damage over time/heal and Celestial Bombardment as a nuke
Largely easier to maintain empyrean magic
Cheap spam-able produce flame

Do these things not scale as well as the water druid? I understand that water druid is strictly better, but are fire druids still good?

[Pilgrim1]

Fire or water druids are both very strong and very viable. However both of them require a end game raid weapon to be truly strong. Fire requires spiral from strahd (or baba?), and water requires a upgraded q.staff from WPM. Both of these weapons give +5 caster levels (for energy burst/breath) and +20% stacking crit chance.

Fire (with acid) gives significantly more AoE damage, water gives better single target dmg.

BoGW and Tsunami both help cold significantly when it comes to aoe damage, closing the gap.

The biggest difference between them (from a final build perspective) is the pain of swapping spiral every 20 seconds in order to maintain the fire buff. If this is not a big deal for you then fire is great.

Fire also is much stronger when your under-geared and not optimized. You can use a ravenloft caster stick in your off hand to give you better DC’s. You can also use emperian magic for 10 more crit chance, and also tiefling can boost your crit chance an extra 8? Making getting to 100% much easier. I would suggest that fire is stronger then ice for any under-geared druid, and any druid lvl’s 1-28. At lvl 29-30 they are similar, tho fire does lack some boss DPS.

There are several hidden advantage of fire as well. You can use the fvs sharn caster set witch is much stronger then the druid one, you can use the aoe acid dot and SoV for more aoe dmg (acid is suported with ravenloft belt), you can run body of sun + extend along with LGS weapons to apply status effects, your heal spells are cast at a higher CL and MCL so hit harder, you have increased force damage so arcane pulse becomes an option, and lastly you can use a different arcaine PL stance then crit chance.

Lastly switching between fire and water is fairly simple. It takes (1) change of elemental form, (2) change in primary casting weapon, (3) change of ravenloft spell power belt.

Frankly if your fine with the 20 second weapon swap, then fire is likely stronger then water for everything other then pure boss DPS. If you dont like swapping every 20 seconds or forget or fail then cold is much much better.

[Maelodic]

Fire or water druids are both very strong and very viable. However both of them require a end game raid weapon to be truly strong. Fire requires spiral from strahd (or baba?), and water requires a upgraded q.staff from WPM. Both of these weapons give +5 caster levels (for energy burst/breath) and +20% stacking crit chance.

Fire (with acid) gives significantly more AoE damage, water gives better single target dmg.

BoGW and Tsunami both help cold significantly when it comes to aoe damage, closing the gap.

The biggest difference between them (from a final build perspective) is the pain of swapping spiral every 20 seconds in order to maintain the fire buff. If this is not a big deal for you then fire is great.

Fire also is much stronger when your under-geared and not optimized. You can use a ravenloft caster stick in your off hand to give you better DC’s. You can also use emperian magic for 10 more crit chance, and also tiefling can boost your crit chance an extra 8? Making getting to 100% much easier. I would suggest that fire is stronger then ice for any under-geared druid, and any druid lvl’s 1-28. At lvl 29-30 they are similar, tho fire does lack some boss DPS.

There are several hidden advantage of fire as well. You can use the fvs sharn caster set witch is much stronger then the druid one, you can use the aoe acid dot and SoV for more aoe dmg (acid is suported with ravenloft belt), you can run body of sun + extend along with LGS weapons to apply status effects, your heal spells are cast at a higher CL and MCL so hit harder, you have increased force damage so arcane pulse becomes an option, and lastly you can use a different arcaine PL stance then crit chance.

Lastly switching between fire and water is fairly simple. It takes (1) change of elemental form, (2) change in primary casting weapon, (3) change of ravenloft spell power belt.

Frankly if your fine with the 20 second weapon swap, then fire is likely stronger then water for everything other then pure boss DPS. If you dont like swapping every 20 seconds or forget or fail then cold is much much better.

Thanks! I enjoy fire a lot more, so I'm glad it's just as strong if not stronger.

[SirValentine]

Frankly if your fine with the 20 second weapon swap, then fire is likely stronger then water for everything other then pure boss DPS.


When you say "everything", you just mean AOE DPS, or what? Because if you actually mean "everything", you're wrong.

I have no comment on which is better DPS of any sort, but water's enemy save debuff makes it strictly superior for a DC caster. So far as I'm concerned, DC casting is definitely part of "everything", so claiming fire is better for "everything" other than boss DPS is false.

[PsychoBlonde]

When you say "everything", you just mean AOE DPS, or what? Because if you actually mean "everything", you're wrong.

I have no comment on which is better DPS of any sort, but water's enemy save debuff makes it strictly superior for a DC caster. So far as I'm concerned, DC casting is definitely part of "everything", so claiming fire is better for "everything" other than boss DPS is false.

Druid is in kinda a nasty place for DC casting because there isn't a destiny that gives them bonus caster levels AND gives them bonus wis AND gives them bonus DC's, and they get very few useful CC effects anyway (earthquake, burst of glacial wrath if you take it).

[Pilgrim1]

Druid is in kinda a nasty place for DC casting because there isn't a destiny that gives them bonus caster levels AND gives them bonus wis AND gives them bonus DC's, and they get very few useful CC effects anyway (earthquake, burst of glacial wrath if you take it).

Mmm that sounds like primal avatar. 8 wisdom, 3 evocation dc, 5 caster levels.

The issue is that druids neeeeeeed dmg to kill mobs. Thus draconic is where they have to be to get energy burst and breath.


Good catch on the water debuff. That helps with dc for sure.

[SirValentine]

Sorry, OP, this is getting kind of off-topic from viability of fire DPS...


Druid is in kinda a nasty place for DC casting because there isn't a destiny that gives them bonus caster levels AND gives them bonus wis AND gives them bonus DC's, and they get very few useful CC effects anyway (earthquake, burst of glacial wrath if you take it).


Shrug.

Who needs the Wis when the DC bonuses are big enough?

Who needs the caster levels except in a very few select quests with ultra-high-spell-resistance mobs, and you can swap twists (or even destiny if you needed) just for those few? (Or use different spells.)

And as for only having 2 useful CC effects...nope. There's quite a few.



The issue is that druids neeeeeeed dmg to kill mobs. Thus draconic is where they have to be to get energy burst and breath.


They can use their several instakill options. Or they can CC stuff and let the DPS in the party kill it.

DPSing is fine if you enjoy it. But while it's needed in a party, it's pretty optional on a DC caster in that party.

[Maelodic]

Sorry, OP, this is getting kind of off-topic from viability of fire DPS...

It's all good, good discussion here.

It looks like in summary, Fire DPS Druid is:

Generally stronger with sub-optimal equipment
Stronger in the leveling process
Viable endgame, but a tad weaker for endgame

Is this accurate?