Hardcore League Season One - Final Standings and the After Party!

[Cordovan]

UPDATE 12/10/19: The Hardcore League server has reopened for additional character transfers and other after party activity through January 5th. Once the Hardcore League server is closed after January 5th, the server will not reopen until Season Two, at which point there will be a character database purge. Make sure to get your stuff done before January 6th!

Thank you to everyone who participated in our first Hardcore League! We've now published the final standings for Reaper XP and Total Favor here (https://www.ddo.com/en/news/hardcore-league-final-standings-season-one). Congratulations to everyone on the list! This list will be published in the Hall of Heroes in the future as well.

There were more than 6,000 characters who made it to at least level 5 and survived, so next week's DDO Chronicle will be a special edition featuring everyone who survived at 5+.

We are also pleased to announce that the after party has begun! We have now re-opened the Hardcore League server for players to get their things in order and transfer their character to another server. Make sure to read our FAQ here (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/509386-Hardcore-League-Wrap-up-FAQ) to get more information about the Character Transfer process.

Character transfers from the Hardcore League to another live server can be done through the regular DDO game launcher. The timing is this: We will be keeping the Hardcore League server open through December 2nd, after which time the Hardcore server will close for a while pending some wider server work we are planning. Once that server work is complete, we will work to get character copies re-enabled for both the Hardcore League and the other servers as well. It is not expected that Character Transfers will be re-enabled following December 2nd until probably early next year.

Taking part and watching this first Hardcore League has been great, and we hope you've had a good time too. Stay tuned for more information about Season Two of the Hardcore League in early 2020!

[GoldyGopher]

Stay tuned for more information about Season Two of the Hardcore League in early 2020!

I believe that early 2020 is too soon.

[Sarkastik]

Thank you to everyone who participated in our first Hardcore League! We've now published the final standings for Reaper XP and Total Favor here (https://www.ddo.com/en/news/hardcore-league-final-standings-season-one). Congratulations to everyone on the list! This list will be published in the Hall of Heroes in the future as well.

You're not going to remove the dead characters from the list???

[Kabaon]

Thank you to everyone who participated in our first Hardcore League! We've now published the final standings for Reaper XP and Total Favor here (https://www.ddo.com/en/news/hardcore-league-final-standings-season-one). Congratulations to everyone on the list! This list will be published in the Hall of Heroes in the future as well.

There were more than 6,000 characters who made it to at least level 5 and survived, so next week's DDO Chronicle will be a special edition featuring everyone who survived at 5+.

We are also pleased to announce that the after party has begun! We have now re-opened the Hardcore League server for players to get their things in order and transfer their character to another server. Make sure to read our FAQ here (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/509386-Hardcore-League-Wrap-up-FAQ) to get more information about the Character Transfer process.

Character transfers from the Hardcore League to another live server can be done through the regular DDO game launcher. The timing is this: We will be keeping the Hardcore League server open through December 2nd, after which time the Hardcore server will close for a while pending some wider server work we are planning. Once that server work is complete, we will work to get character copies re-enabled for both the Hardcore League and the other servers as well. It is not expected that Character Transfers will be re-enabled following December 2nd until probably early next year.

Taking part and watching this first Hardcore League has been great, and we hope you've had a good time too. Stay tuned for more information about Season Two of the Hardcore League in early 2020!

I'm sure you've heard this a bunch already, but PLEASE pass along to the devs that Premium players are interested to. If the server had been altered already to force Perma Death, changing how individuals access quests should be "potentially" possible. By this I mean the players that say Premium players would be left behind because we can't open Elite right away.

Beyond that I dunno, I personally don't care for leaderboard placements or trying to compete with other players, I was intrigued with the idea of starting fresh with no items/gear and just seeing how far I can make it solo/duoing.

[ShifterThePirate]

I believe that early 2020 is too soon.

He says there will be information about season 2 early 2020 and not season 2 starting at that time. It's probably just an announcement about when we will see it again in the future. My best guess is around the anniversary event though.

I would love to see some more stats though. What classes did the best or which died the most. What builds were at the top or most used.

[Silverleafeon]

He says there will be information about season 2 early 2020 and not season 2 starting at that time. It's probably just an announcement about when we will see it again in the future.

Likely.

It would be nice if the next Hardcore League were moved to avoid any other main event, such as:

Aniversary
Night Revels
Winter Games
Etc

Hence the next HCL season 2 might occur in less than a year to avoid Night Revels.

[Silverleafeon]

Transferred

That was easy, thanks.
(I did presort my inventory.)

[ChadB123]

Season Two of the Hardcore League in early 2020!

This is insane. The population of the Orien server was pitiful during the Hardcore League. This is a terrible decision, and I hope the devs reconsider it.

EDIT: Misread the OP. However, I do hope population is considered before announcing season 2.

[PsychoBlonde]

I'm sure you've heard this a bunch already, but PLEASE pass along to the devs that Premium players are interested to. If the server had been altered already to force Perma Death, changing how individuals access quests should be "potentially" possible. By this I mean the players that say Premium players would be left behind because we can't open Elite right away.

Beyond that I dunno, I personally don't care for leaderboard placements or trying to compete with other players, I was intrigued with the idea of starting fresh with no items/gear and just seeing how far I can make it solo/duoing.

My suggestion for making it open to Premium players would be to let you buy a token on the DDO store for X number of points that lets you create ONE Permadeath character. (Basically, when you finish character creation, you talk to Mortality, and if you're not VIP you have to turn in a token in order to start questing.) Around 500-700 points each seems like a good number to me.

I think this would be on the easy side to implement, and I think that'd be a good option all around.

[ironmaiden-br]

i end up alive with 5217 favor and im not on the list

HelloweenPD

[Edwardt]

Thank you to everyone who participated in our first Hardcore League! We've now published the final standings for Reaper XP and Total Favor. Congratulations to everyone on the list! This list will be published in the Hall of Heroes in the future as well.

I wonder why my character 'Deine' with 5253 favor is not on the list anymore. The last time I checked she was alive and well while looking for some adventures Thursday evening in the last week of the league. Did a Dev kill her in my absence?

[ironmaiden-br]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2859617917405900&set=gm.2518662235021783&type=3&eid=ARDj4QuQsfTjiuX8EYEJ2660qoJPkAct1_0P7hIXW5Cb3o MYfUGh085mr3H8Rp0xRO4yVl1hLS2Mjebh

here is a picture to prove.... so frustating....

last 15 days of the server i was checking the leaderbord... until the last day i was there...

[Elharith]

I had iconic characters who I did not end up leveling to 15. I have moved them to their respective new homes and wondered if there is a way now they are there to level them up to 15 now.

[westudi]

Awesome!

Any idea on generally how long it takes to transfer a toon?

Are we able to transfer all our toons (assuming we have the slots) or is there a limit?

Thanks. Definitely enjoyed Hardcore way more than I expected. In no small part because it was so active. Might be a good idea to condense the actual number of servers to help emulate that.

[Cordovan]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2859617917405900&set=gm.2518662235021783&type=3&eid=ARDj4QuQsfTjiuX8EYEJ2660qoJPkAct1_0P7hIXW5Cb3o MYfUGh085mr3H8Rp0xRO4yVl1hLS2Mjebh

here is a picture to prove.... so frustating....

last 15 days of the server i was checking the leaderbord... until the last day i was there...

Hmm, we did a pull of the raw data as of the end of the event on Friday. Just to make sure, the character didn't die?

[ironmaiden-br]

Hmm, we did a pull of the raw data as of the end of the event on Friday. Just to make sure, the character didn't die?
no man .. stop playing 15 days before the server ending...

last days i was just entering to check the top charts

[Edwardt]

Hmm, we did a pull of the raw data as of the end of the event on Friday. Just to make sure, the character didn't die?

I didn't log on 'Deine' when I accessed the server not to interact with the character for now, but on Edwardt to have a look at Mortality just to find out the leaderboard has taken down. At the log in screen 'Deine' was on the airship and seems to be still alive.
I'm afraid someone needs to double check the data.

[ironmaiden-br]

I didn't log on 'Deine' when I accessed the server not to interact with the character for now, but on Edwardt to have a look at Mortality just to find out the leaderboard has taken down. At the log in screen 'Deine' was on the airship and seems to be still alive.
I'm afraid someone needs to double check the data.


when i opend today i was in the hall of heroes...

[Avocado]

You must have made a huge amount of revenue to already be considering hardcore league season 2. While I'm not a fan of HC at all, just keep the rewards purely cosmetic and I wont have an issue.

[Sylvado]

You must have made a huge amount of revenue to already be considering hardcore league season 2. While I'm not a fan of HC at all, just keep the rewards purely cosmetic and I wont have an issue.

This is not a PvP game, why should you or I be concerned with the rewards others get?

[Aftergod]

Thank you to everyone who participated in our first Hardcore League! We've now published the final standings for Reaper XP and Total Favor here (https://www.ddo.com/en/news/hardcore-league-final-standings-season-one). Congratulations to everyone on the list! This list will be published in the Hall of Heroes in the future as well.

There were more than 6,000 characters who made it to at least level 5 and survived, so next week's DDO Chronicle will be a special edition featuring everyone who survived at 5+.

We are also pleased to announce that the after party has begun! We have now re-opened the Hardcore League server for players to get their things in order and transfer their character to another server. Make sure to read our FAQ here (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/509386-Hardcore-League-Wrap-up-FAQ) to get more information about the Character Transfer process.

Character transfers from the Hardcore League to another live server can be done through the regular DDO game launcher. The timing is this: We will be keeping the Hardcore League server open through December 2nd, after which time the Hardcore server will close for a while pending some wider server work we are planning. Once that server work is complete, we will work to get character copies re-enabled for both the Hardcore League and the other servers as well. It is not expected that Character Transfers will be re-enabled following December 2nd until probably early next year.

Taking part and watching this first Hardcore League has been great, and we hope you've had a good time too. Stay tuned for more information about Season Two of the Hardcore League in early 2020!

hope season1 hardcore let ssg make enough money to change their dam lagg old servers,or more ppl will lose their faith

[rarothrock]

I believe that early 2020 is too soon.

I agree wholeheartedly.
Ratyr

[Afrosaxon]

I can't seem to log into my characters in the land of lost souls. They're all stuck in loading screen, eventually it times out and says connection to server lost. I was able to successfully log into my last "living" character.

[Cordovan]

no man .. stop playing 15 days before the server ending...

last days i was just entering to check the top charts

We will look into it on Monday. Just keep that character on the Hardcore server for now please.

[YUGWEN]

I heard a lot of people on the HC server and forums complaining about player density on the other servers. I don't get that at all. Player density and participation has been dropping for a long time. The increase in level cap means that even if the raw number of players was the same as it was when level cap was 20, there are half again as many levels and that ties up a lot of characters in the level 19+ range until they TR again. Quests that used to fill in seconds are now lucky to see one or two join - including raids. The main servers are flooded with multi-TR characters and people who solo everything.

I am not a permadeath or HC fan, but I had a blast on the HC server because it forced people to work together and fill up parties like the good old days. Everyone started with nothing, and no one could really level up high enough to farm low level gear without getting creative because of the level limitations of quests. Teamwork had to become a real thing again and I have had more fun than I have had in years because of it.

My only issue with the event was crossing over other events. I missed out on night revels entirely, and I love that thing. That, the anniversary event, and Crystal Cove are my favorites. I think this was a great event, and I think keeping it exclusive to VIP also helps keep some of the F2P and gen chat spamming drama off of the server. It takes a lot of time and effort to make a new server spin up along with HC changes happen. I think reserving it for paying players is fine.

Good job Devs, thanks for leveling the playing field and mixing things up!

(FePyrite on HC, Yugweno on Khyber)

[ironmaiden-br]

We will look into it on Monday. Just keep that character on the Hardcore server for now please.
ok tks

[Brutuscass]

Stay tuned for more information about Season Two of the Hardcore League in early 2020!

:confused:
Just for clarity. Is that stay tuned for more information which will be given in early 2020. Or do you mean you will soon give more information on Season Two of the Hardcore League which will take place in early 2020?

[TheMaxpower]

Based on my observations and discussions with other players, the HC Server killed the populations on many of the live servers. There were few people to run with, and raids became difficult to fill. Many of my friends left the game because of this, and they have not returned. I advise SSG not to do another HC Server until they merge some of the live servers or otherwise deal with the low population issues. Why intentionally drive veterans away from the game?

[Amorais]

I read it as they will give more info early next year on season 2. Not that season 2 starts early next year.

One thing - dont forget to do a gold roll on the HC server before transferring your last toon over...its effectively a free roll. :)

Also, if your the last one in the guild and its leader you'll need to disband it before transferring otherwise it wont appear on the available characters list.

[Kabaon]

My suggestion for making it open to Premium players would be to let you buy a token on the DDO store for X number of points that lets you create ONE Permadeath character. (Basically, when you finish character creation, you talk to Mortality, and if you're not VIP you have to turn in a token in order to start questing.) Around 500-700 points each seems like a good number to me.

I think this would be on the easy side to implement, and I think that'd be a good option all around.

Not for one character. I refuse to spend 10 dollars an attempt thanks (20 if my wife plays). Not unless all the bugs/lag were fixed before hand so I don't die to some random non-sense. I get that this is something the devs made to make money, and have some fun and try something new with the game. I also know it wasn't an easy decision from the devs to make it ViP only, but as it was a test to see if it was worth doing again I also get why it was stuck behind a paywall.

The reason I don't want to sub is that I'll get VERY little value out of it. I know I've earned my fair share of the content over the years, but aside from Keep on the Borderlands and one of the madness packs (you know the ones with terminal delirium or whatever) I have access to all the content on my account, with all the races unlocked aside from wood elf. My wife is a in a similar situation. I'm very certain that we have purchased enough content to match a good number of years of sub money. Expansions not included in those costs as everyone has to buy them if they want to play the content regardless of account status.

But hey, maybe I'm in the minority as a Premium for paying for as much content as I do on my account. And most premiums aren't in my situation. The devs would have the data and would make a call based off that. But they could also use it as a way to sell content to those players by making everyone able to play on the server, full access, and show that either ViP is worth it, or that some packs are really fun and those players purchase the pack on live servers. But I'm just throwing ideas out there.

[Fedora1]

The reason I don't want to sub is that I'll get VERY little value out of it. I know I've earned my fair share of the content over the years, but aside from Keep on the Borderlands and one of the madness packs (you know the ones with terminal delirium or whatever) I have access to all the content on my account, with all the races unlocked aside from wood elf. My wife is a in a similar situation. I'm very certain that we have purchased enough content to match a good number of years of sub money. Expansions not included in those costs as everyone has to buy them if they want to play the content regardless of account status.


One thing to keep in mind that you won't have on the HC server if you are not VIP is the ability to open your first quests on elite. You won't already have a third life toon to do it, and this could potentially handicap you being able to get the xp/favor/reaper rewards because you would have to run the quests 3 times. Obviously not an issue if you're into pug'ing, but beware there were "some" instances of player griefing where 4-5 players would intentionally get other member(s) of the party killed. It wasn't widespread, but it did happen.

[Zargarx]

I believe that early 2020 is too soon.

Yeah, early 2020 is fine for an announcement but not to have another hard core league event. But perhaps around the summer?

Also, not sure if others felt this way, I found it was perhaps 1 month too long? I think 60 days would be better. And to further stress the time element, maybe have a countdown timer in the hall of heroes or perhaps an hourly announcement (that can be turned off in the options settings); e.g. There is 35 days and 16 hours remaining.

Last comment - I found it strange to be on a "hardcore" server and having the option to pick lower difficulties. For quests that support Hard (and higher), I would have expected that the lower settings (normal/casual) would have been grayed out or have a snarky comment!

[Sarkastik]

We will look into it on Monday. Just keep that character on the Hardcore server for now please.

Would you also please take a pass through the list and remove any remaining dead characters? I assume that is the intention, not to leave them on.

[hit_fido]

Couple observations:

- The fact that SSG plans a season 2 probably means concerns over people quitting because of low population are overblown. Not to say some people didn't quit, but it may have ended up being well within their usual churn of inactive accounts versus new or reactivated accounts.

- They must have made a chunk of money. If it was merely break even I wouldn't see a strong business case for a repeat.

Couple suggestions:

- Meet complaining players a little toward the middle by making the next season two months instead of three.

- Keep the reward system strictly for bragging rights and eye candy (if this was a financial success I guess there will be pressure to make the rewards more attractive).

Disclaimer: I had a lot of fun and would play it again.

[hit_fido]

Last comment - I found it strange to be on a "hardcore" server and having the option to pick lower difficulties. For quests that support Hard (and higher), I would have expected that the lower settings (normal/casual) would have been grayed out or have a snarky comment!

The enforced permadeath aspect was the core of the event, and still inviting players of whatever skill level to play at a difficulty appropriate for them didn't diminish that or the added excitement. They made the real prestige rewards contingent on playing harder difficulties. To me that was smart, more players could/would participate in the event but the top "skilled" players could still earn whatever recognition motivated them.

[Zeklijan]

Please consider letting non VIP players login to their characters to switch out their banks too.

Thanks,
Zek

[cerocruz]

The sooner the better, hardcore was a lot of fun. :)

[GeneralDiomedes]

It would be nice if some of the rewards were non - cosmetic such as a reaper point tome. That would motivate me.

[Sevans]

Hey,

Is there any way non-VIP players might be allowed to join in the Hardcore fun?
1) I really want to try hardcore!
2) I miss being able to find parties for harder content on the main servers while hardcore is up!

Thanks!

[shawnvw]

This is not a PvP game, why should you or I be concerned with the rewards others get?

Well, if the reward is an item that makes some other, non-hardcore content easier - a powerful weapon, say - then it wouldn't seem fair that only VIPs had a chance to get it. Indirectly, it would be paying for a combat advantage. Pay-to-win.

It's true, it doesn't directly affect other characters, but you could say the same thing about someone who hacks the code and makes an unbeatable PC.

[sturmbb]

The sooner the better, hardcore was a lot of fun. :)

I agree with this wholeheartedly. I've been away a number of years (when I first started I went F2P, than after having an awesome time upgraded to Premium and started acquiring all of the packs etc) but I came back for this event. I had no qualms in becoming VIP (its the first time I had ever done this, due to having all of the packs before I left) so i could see what this event was like.

The things I liked:

1. This event had the old feeling of DDO, were everyone has to group togethere to succeed.

2. A populated server (i have been back a number of times on different servers and it was heartbreaking to see how little LFM's were up) were there was plenty of
LFM's up.

3. Being an event for 3 months, really gives everyone a chance to get the reward they are after (I believe if you was to make it any shorter, than you start restricting casual players who may not be able to play as often due to RL commitments and stop them from getting the rewards)

Even though I have always been a premium, I truly believe this event needs to stay VIP. I have considered a number of times when I was playing regularly about becoming VIP. But the only real advantage to becoming VIP for me would be to unlock Elite on first playthrough.

I think the VIP crowd deserve to be rewarded for sticking with DDO over these years, and making the Hardcore Server VIP only, it gives them an incentive to stay VIP. Also any Premium wanting to play on the Hardcore server has to subscribe to VIP to access the event. Which equates to more money for DDO.

$14.99 a month to access the Hardcore Server I believe is good value for money (and this is someone who has 90% of the packs as a premium account, everytime I came back I always seemed to buy the latest pack and than get fed up of the population and leave again)

[bondo17]

We will look into it on Monday. Just keep that character on the Hardcore server for now please.

There were several times when I saw a few people including myself drop off the leaderboards and then pop back up. On my character Leylu I was logged in and wasn't there on the leaderboard, relogged and then I showed up again.

[Kabaon]

1. This event had the old feeling of DDO, were everyone has to group togethere to succeed.

No issues here

2. A populated server (i have been back a number of times on different servers and it was heartbreaking to see how little LFM's were up) were there was plenty of
LFM's up.

Eh I didn't have trouble finding groups even with Night Revels/HC up (though this could be because of the server I am on)

3. Being an event for 3 months, really gives everyone a chance to get the reward they are after (I believe if you was to make it any shorter, than you start restricting casual players who may not be able to play as often due to RL commitments and stop them from getting the rewards)

Even though I have always been a premium, I truly believe this event needs to stay VIP. I have considered a number of times when I was playing regularly about becoming VIP. But the only real advantage to becoming VIP for me would be to unlock Elite on first playthrough.

I think the VIP crowd deserve to be rewarded for sticking with DDO over these years, and making the Hardcore Server VIP only, it gives them an incentive to stay VIP. Also any Premium wanting to play on the Hardcore server has to subscribe to VIP to access the event. Which equates to more money for DDO.

$14.99 a month to access the Hardcore Server I believe is good value for money (and this is someone who has 90% of the packs as a premium account, everytime I came back I always seemed to buy the latest pack and than get fed up of the population and leave again)

But why though? If you don't see an advantage of VIP as a premium that has 90% of the packs, then there really isn't an advantage.

So premium players who may have spent a similar amount OR MORE than some VIP players basically deserve to be left out then? And all because VIP's "deserve" something in addition to the perks they already get?

As someone who DOESN'T live in the US, 14.99 isn't what I would pay. On average for me and my wife to play together on the server we'd have to spend 40 dollars for a months worth of ViP. If we somehow didn't make it to level 20 in a month (Unlikely, though our schedules don't line up as much as we'd like), that's 80 dollars for two months. That's absurd for the privilege to play a temporary server. I know someone is going to respond "Privilege, exactly, which means you have the choice to pay or not" except I have paid, I may not be paying a monthly sub but I have spent over the years money on Airships, astral shards, races, classes, and beyond. So being able to play a server should be doable.

And to the folks that say that Premium players would have to run a quest three times. They INHERENTLY changed how the server operates as far as death is concerned. It's possible they could make it so people can open elite no matter the status. I mean, all VIP does in this regard is essentially flips a switch on the back-end of the game. Same with TR'ing as well, it just checks for that character to have something go from a 0 to a 1 when you TR for opening a higher difficulty.

[Solacetine]

I had a lot of fun doing this. But with season 2 coming at some point next year, I need more character slots lol. I loved the tense moments and the sitting on the edge of my seat. Can't wait for the next one.

[Saekee]

congratz to all who landed their names on those lists! Cordovan, lets have some interviews of the top-placing players about their strategies and builds now.

Edit: kudos for Element and EmbracePike for making it

[EdgarLockheart]

we will work to get character copies re-enabled for both the Hardcore League and the other servers as well.
I wouldn't want to play a hardcore season that had my old characters on it. I think that it should be wiped clean and started fresh like the first time. That was part of the fun, being able to play from the beginning with nothing but my cosmetics and bonuses that all my characters start with. Not having stores full of gear and plat, not having a big ship to buff on or fast travel with and not having any friends on my list to draw from for grouping, it all forces us to play the way we would as new players. That's what really made this fun.

[Fedora1]

So premium players who may have spent a similar amount OR MORE than some VIP players basically deserve to be left out then?

It's all about joining the club. You get perks, and right now Hardcore is one of them.

I am not against opening up HC to Premium players, I just don't get how it's so hard to understand the concept of a VIP-only thing.

Many VIPs spend as much or more than premium people do IN ADDITION to their monthly sub. That is why it's not about how much someone spends.

You might spend more money than me at Walmart every month, but unless you pay the sub you can't shop at Sam's Club.

[Kabaon]

It's all about joining the club. You get perks, and right now Hardcore is one of them.

I am not against opening up HC to Premium players, I just don't get how it's so hard to understand the concept of a VIP-only thing.

Many VIPs spend as much or more than premium people do IN ADDITION to their monthly sub. That is why it's not about how much someone spends.

You might spend more money than me at Walmart every month, but unless you pay the sub you can't shop at Sam's Club.

Because I'm a paying customer too, I'm just not paying a 20 dollar fee every month. Especially to play on a temporary server. I get servers have costs but seeing as the experiment is a success I'm sure opening it up to more players might actually boost their sales.

Good for those VIP's that do spend more every month, but surely that's only a handful of VIP's overall. Also the ability to open elite, access to all quests, 10% xp boost, more character slots than premium (to start), and free DDO points is a fair exchange for the 14.99 US, with a big IF you already don't own 90% or more of the content on your account. Like I said for myself, I have a bunch of content/bank space/airship purchases/astral shards etc. And so I'm sidelined because of an arbitrary amount of money I choose not to pay because there is no value there for me outside of a temporary server. It's not like I'm asking for the world here, just the ability to enjoy this server like the rest of you WITHOUT wasting my money on services I'll get nothing out of. If I need those 500 ddo points, I'll spend half what I would for VIP and actually get more from that. (7.99 US is 10 CAD for 600 points, 14.99 US is 19.94 CAD)

Maybe we just need a Premium/F2P only HC then, and limit those who have had VIP in the last 6 months from being unable to play (I mean you could start a new account). Because that's what this sounds like to me.

[AlmGhandi]

I agree with this wholeheartedly. I've been away a number of years (when I first started I went F2P, than after having an awesome time upgraded to Premium and started acquiring all of the packs etc) but I came back for this event. I had no qualms in becoming VIP (its the first time I had ever done this, due to having all of the packs before I left) so i could see what this event was like.

The things I liked:

1. This event had the old feeling of DDO, were everyone has to group togethere to succeed.

2. A populated server (i have been back a number of times on different servers and it was heartbreaking to see how little LFM's were up) were there was plenty of
LFM's up.

3. Being an event for 3 months, really gives everyone a chance to get the reward they are after (I believe if you was to make it any shorter, than you start restricting casual players who may not be able to play as often due to RL commitments and stop them from getting the rewards)

Even though I have always been a premium, I truly believe this event needs to stay VIP. I have considered a number of times when I was playing regularly about becoming VIP. But the only real advantage to becoming VIP for me would be to unlock Elite on first playthrough.

I think the VIP crowd deserve to be rewarded for sticking with DDO over these years, and making the Hardcore Server VIP only, it gives them an incentive to stay VIP. Also any Premium wanting to play on the Hardcore server has to subscribe to VIP to access the event. Which equates to more money for DDO.

$14.99 a month to access the Hardcore Server I believe is good value for money (and this is someone who has 90% of the packs as a premium account, everytime I came back I always seemed to buy the latest pack and than get fed up of the population and leave again)

I agree with pretty much everything...
It was great fun, and if the Event was any shorter than it was... then I probably would have given up before I started…. constrained by RL work / family. As it was... it felt just about right from the length. There were LFMs up to the last minute, and some nice relaxed people who already got their rewards and were trying to help others.
It was fun… and honestly, if it was starting straight away again… I'd dive in with enthusiasm.

[Deadlock]

So a game bug killed me with 5786 favor, before the additional 54 favor for Borderlands was added. Was 7th on the leader board at the time. Bug reported and posted in the hope of a positive dev response.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/509663-Precious-Cargo-bugged?

So from the published list, I guess the response is that your time and effort counts for nothing.

Edit: If I die to my own overconfidence or incompetence then fair enough, I'll raise a beer, have a laugh and reroll. Wouldn't be the first time and won't be the last :) If I get shafted by a game bug, then I'm not so easy going.

[Fedora1]

Because I'm a paying customer too, I'm just not paying a 20 dollar fee every month.

You're not reading what I'm writing.

You might spend more money than me at Walmart every month, but unless you pay the sub you can't shop at Sam's Club.

[Deadlock]

Because I'm a paying customer too, I'm just not paying a 20 dollar fee every month. Especially to play on a temporary server. I get servers have costs but seeing as the experiment is a success I'm sure opening it up to more players might actually boost their sales.

You had the option of a 3 month subscription at the start that would have seen you through the whole event. If you wanted to participate, that would have been the most cost effective way of doing it.

I'm a VIP and pay my sub. I also pay for extra points whenever I feel like it and frequently do. I understand that they're two different things.

EDIT: Whenever they bring it back, and it should be no less than 12 months from the last one, there's no need to add anything to the Store to allow Premium or Free to Play to participate. Just keep the 3 month VIP subscription an option and we're sorted.

[AlmGhandi]

On another note....
Any word on when Death Watches You is going to be working on other servers?

[Kabaon]

You're not reading what I'm writing.

You might spend more money than me at Walmart every month, but unless you pay the sub you can't shop at Sam's Club.

Oh I understood, it's NOT quite the same situation.

If I shop at Walmart I can purchase things. If I don't have a sub at "Sam's Club"....or my equivalent that I understand Costco, I can't buy things in bulk. But I have a choice here as I may or may not need bulk items.

Hardcore server isn't the same. I have access to almost all the content in DDO. I've paid for my access to said content (and earned). I'm arbitrarily being locked out of content because I refuse to purchase a mostly pointless (to me) monthly rental fee for content I OWN (yes I know, technically SSG owns it, I just have unlimited access for a one time fee), because I can't open elite.

In this instance it's like I owned a Walmart store, but I'm being told that's not good enough and I should be renting a Sam's Club (or Costco). Doesn't that sound ridiculous? Actually let me rephrase my last statement.... I'm being told that's not good enough and I should be renting a TEMPORARY Sam's Club (or Costco).


You had the option of a 3 month subscription at the start that would have seen you through the whole event. If you wanted to participate, that would have been the most cost effective way of doing it.

I'm a VIP and pay my sub. I also pay for extra points whenever I feel like it and frequently do. I understand that they're two different things.

EDIT: Whenever they bring it back, and it should be no less than 12 months from the last one, there's no need to add anything to the Store to allow Premium or Free to Play to participate. Just keep the 3 month VIP subscription an option and we're sorted.

Oh wow, so I should spend 80 dollars for my wife and I for 3 months each for a service I DON'T NEED outside of accessing a special server. Wow.... I'd rather spend that waste of 80 dollars on a sports game that gets refreshed once a year because I'll at least get more time with it than over spending 80 dollars for 3 months and losing access to it afterwards (with basically no other benefit as I have more than enough content unsubbed to do just fine). Yeah, no thanks. Just make it accessible to all or don't bother doing it again.

[Fedora1]

Oh I understood, it's NOT quite the same situation.

If I shop at Walmart I can purchase things. If I don't have a sub at "Sam's Club"....or my equivalent that I understand Costco, I can't buy things in bulk. But I have a choice here as I may or may not need bulk items.

Hardcore server isn't the same. I have access to almost all the content in DDO. I've paid for my access to said content (and earned). I'm arbitrarily being locked out of content because I refuse to purchase a mostly pointless (to me) monthly rental fee for content I OWN (yes I know, technically SSG owns it, I just have unlimited access for a one time fee), because I can't open elite.

In this instance it's like I owned a Walmart store, but I'm being told that's not good enough and I should be renting a Sam's Club (or Costco). Doesn't that sound ridiculous? Actually let me rephrase my last statement.... I'm being told that's not good enough and I should be renting a TEMPORARY Sam's Club (or Costco).

Well we can agree to disagree, but the concept is you join the club you get the perks.

Hopefully SSG can find some middle ground, I'd like for everyone to enjoy the fun on HC. I'm just explaining to what it means to join clubs versus spend money. Whether it's with an Airline, Hotel Chain, or Boy Scouts - it's a club, you join, you get to do things.

[Kabaon]

Well we can agree to disagree, but the concept is you join the club you get the perks.

Hopefully SSG can find some middle ground, I'd like for everyone to enjoy the fun on HC. I'm just explaining to what it means to join clubs versus spend money. Whether it's with an Airline, Hotel Chain, or Boy Scouts - it's a club, you join, you get to do things.

It's the problem is that I have no use for any perks on VIP service outside of access a temporary server. If I had no packs unlocked, fresh player totally.... sure, VIP me all the way. But as I have spent the money already, VIP is a pass and a temporary server isn't enough incentive to push someone like me to play behind a paywall.

[Deadlock]

Oh wow, so I should spend 80 dollars for my wife and I for 3 months each for a service I DON'T NEED outside of accessing a special server.

You don't have to. It's up to you. The price of a decent meal for 3 months of participation isn't unreasonable. But look man, at the end of the day, it's not for me to tell how you to spend your money. You earn it, you spend it your way whatever suits you best.

[Fedora1]

It's the problem is that I have no use for any perks on VIP service outside of access a temporary server. If I had no packs unlocked, fresh player totally.... sure, VIP me all the way. But as I have spent the money already, VIP is a pass and a temporary server isn't enough incentive to push someone like me to play behind a paywall.

Well looking at it from SSG's point of view, there are probably a LOT more VIPs spending money than there are Premiums. In my limited experience, most Premiums buy a minimum amount of stuff for cash (just to become Premium) and then earn everything else in-game via points for favor. I know this happens because those people brag all the time telling us VIPs how dumb we are. lol

[Kabaon]

You don't have to. It's up to you. The price of a decent meal for 3 months of participation isn't unreasonable. But look man, at the end of the day, it's not for me to tell how you to spend your money. You earn it, you spend it your way whatever suits you best.

Look I get it, but as the benefits of VIP are almost pointless to someone like me and my wife outside of the HC server, it seems a bit pricey given I can play a yearly refresh of a triple A game for the same price.

It's also about HOW they handled it as well. So before the server launched, I KNEW it was VIP only going in. Say no more, not an issue. I figured we would just be locked out from the server at the launcher, no harm no fowl. What has instead happened to me and many others that weren't vip however was that we could log in, get to character select, we were allowed to create a character and ONLY after that was I told "Your not vip, you can't log in".

Now I am aware this is also partially a test from SSG, I am aware that they were on the fence of making it only VIP, but also by doing so they could cover server costs (sort of) and gauge the community interest and involvement. It's been a clear success, so why not open the floodgates, make it so everyone can open elite since they can change what happens on the server and how somethings interact, and even then they could make it so premiums have to purchase a global elite unlock that has a small cost (don't make it a huge sum of ddo points... like no more than 600 points) that lasts until the end of the league (and then the next HC server you have to repurchase the global elite unlock if you want to play again).

That way VIP's still get their perks, and premiums have a choice between running x3 quests or getting to participate as well in the leader boards (that I could care less about personally)


Well looking at it from SSG's point of view, there are probably a LOT more VIPs spending money than there are Premiums. In my limited experience, most Premiums buy a minimum amount of stuff for cash (just to become Premium) and then earn everything else in-game via points for favor. I know this happens because those people brag all the time telling us VIPs how dumb we are. lol

Maybe, maybe not. I'm not saying your dumb for using VIP. I'm saying it's dumb to own 90% of the content (or more) and paying for essentially renting the content I already own(ish).

Yes I do earn points, but actually more often than not I use a percentage of that earnings toward packs/races/classes, but if I want it sooner I purchase points. Over the last 10 years I'm sure I've spent at least 500 dollars on DDO (if not more). But I've also earned my points too by playing. But as I said, if I had no content owned (or very little) VIP seems like a good deal as it gets me into the action faster.

[vryxnr]

Grats to everyone who made it to the end! A special grats to all those who were on both leaderboards with the same character! I will admit, it does fill me with pride seeing my character's name up there (definitely didn't do the best though. I got 9th and 36th).

On the discussion of premiums spending money, hardcore access is another thing you can purchase into. The cost is $14.99 per month (temporary VIP status), less if you go for longer bundles. Those who are already VIP are paying that, and premiums are not barred from paying that for the event either. If you're willing to pay for everything else, why not also pay for this like everyone else?

[Lilgrunt1977]

I'm sure you've heard this a bunch already, but PLEASE pass along to the devs that Premium players are interested to. If the server had been altered already to force Perma Death, changing how individuals access quests should be "potentially" possible. By this I mean the players that say Premium players would be left behind because we can't open Elite right away.

Beyond that I dunno, I personally don't care for leaderboard placements or trying to compete with other players, I was intrigued with the idea of starting fresh with no items/gear and just seeing how far I can make it solo/duoing.

Let them think that only VIP's are the top notch players. It's ok. Have your day in the Sun and bask in your fake glory. When the Hardcore Server opens up to Premium Players and you still make it to the top of the Leader Boards...then and only then....can you call yourself a Champion.

[Kabaon]

On the discussion of premiums spending money, hardcore access is another thing you can purchase into. The cost is $14.99 per month (temporary VIP status), less if you go for longer bundles. Those who are already VIP are paying that, and premiums are not barred from paying that for the event either. If you're willing to pay for everything else, why not also pay for this like everyone else?

Considering I've answered this multiple times, the reason I don't want to pay $20 dollars (40 for my wife to play with me) per month is that I have access to the content already. VIP ONLY gets me the ability to open elite right away, 10%XP and 500 ddo points and apparently the only way folks want me to be able to access the HC server, in spite of being an actively paying customer.

[Kabaon]

Let them think that only VIP's are the top notch players. It's ok. Have your day in the Sun and bask in your fake glory. When the Hardcore Server opens up to Premium Players and you still make it to the top of the Leader Boards...then and only then....can you call yourself a Champion.

Heh, still wouldn't care for the leaderboards, I just want to have a new perspective on the game. But thanks for the words of encouragement :)

[vryxnr]

... VIP ONLY gets me the ability to open elite right away, 10%XP and 500 ddo points and ... access the HC server. Correct.

[Kabaon]

Correct.

Yes, but I don't see the value in only those benefits. The main benefit of VIP is access to all of the packs (outside of x-pacs) and races/classes. Seeing as I have that already, there is no value to VIP.

If I was a fresh new player, the prospect of VIP makes more sense.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ec/b8/56/ecb85641eef54ce1672c3206a90ce4ce.jpg

CONGRATULATIONS TO EVERYONE who participated and had fun!!!!

[vryxnr]

If you don't see the value, then why are you complaining about not having access to what it grants (access to the HCL server when it's active)? You do not own access to that server/event, you (and everyone else) buys temporary access to it (via VIP subscription). You don't have to keep the subscription active afterwards. This is what the cost of the access is. You feel it's too steep a price, and that's fine and fair... but this (HCL access) is what it is, a perk of the VIP subscription.

Is it the fact that it's called "VIP" or "Subscription" what bothers you? (I do know some people who refuse to subscribe to anything just because it's a 'subscription') Or the fact that access is temporary and not something you can buy lifetime access to? SSG does need to make money to continue operating, and a temporary event that you have to pay for each time (HCL server) is a valid (imo) way to make some of their revenue. They've decided that the payment method is through the VIP/Subscription.

Many people who were there were temporary 3 month subs, not lifetime VIPs.

[Kabaon]

If you don't see the value, then why are you complaining about not having access to what it grants (access to the HCL server when it's active)? You do not own access to that server/event, you (and everyone else) buys temporary access to it (via VIP subscription). You don't have to keep the subscription active afterwards. This is what the cost of the access is. You feel it's too steep a price, and that's fine and fair... but this (HCL access) is what it is, a perk of the VIP subscription.

Is it the fact that it's called "VIP" or "Subscription" what bothers you? (I do know some people who refuse to subscribe to anything just because it's a 'subscription') Or the fact that access is temporary and not something you can buy lifetime access to? SSG does need to make money to continue operating, and a temporary event that you have to pay for each time (HCL server) is a valid (imo) way to make some of their revenue. They've decided that the payment method is through the VIP/Subscription.

Many people who were there were temporary 3 month subs, not lifetime VIPs.

I have said this multiple times, VIP gives me access to content. Adventure Packs, Classes, Races. With some minor perks beyond that. Things I already own (as I've stated multiple times).

I have no issue with folks using VIP to access the server. My issue is that it's THE ONLY WAY to access the server. Again, I own the content on my account, there is no difference in quests between live and HC server, so VIP is POINTLESS for accessing the content.

I'm not saying they can't make money, but there are ways to make money besides locking a whole server behind a paywall. But hey, if you wanna be elitist about it, go right ahead.

[Fedora1]

I'm not saying they can't make money, but there are ways to make money besides locking a whole server behind a paywall. But hey, if you wanna be elitist about it, go right ahead.

You just jumped the shark with that comment. He stated you can buy VIP, even a short 3 month sub and access the HC server. You said that's too expensive. One is factual statement, the other is your right to determine.

No one was being elitist.

[Kabaon]

You just jumped the shark with that comment. He stated you can buy VIP, even a short 3 month sub and access the HC server. You said that's too expensive. One is factual statement, the other is your right to determine.

No one was being elitist.

But the whole argument here is predicated on the fact that there should be no other way to access the server. There should be. If I am a premium player I shouldn't be forced to use an effectively useless subscription service to access a feature of the game. In my position, VIP is useless to me outside of access the Hardcore server. I don't care about opening elite on first lifers, 10% is meh and VIP for 500 ddo points is worthless. The only thing VIP is used for in my case is to access the HC server. And that's not worth 40 dollars a month for two accounts or 80 dollars for 3 months for two accounts (combined totals). The folks arguing for it being locked behind a paywall like that are being elitist, even though they might like having a larger pool of players to play with. It would also solve some of the "My server was empty because of HC" complaints, where you could jump in and play with those players.

I'm saying a premium player should be able to access the server, and either we get a global unlock (that's paid for, shocker, they made money without VIP status) to open elite, or hell, a one time payment per season to play without having a useless subscription jammed down our throats.

But hey, if that doesn't work maybe they'll make a HC server for Premium players where VIP's get locked out of because they have their own HC server.

[sturmbb]

But why though? If you don't see an advantage of VIP as a premium that has 90% of the packs, then there really isn't an advantage.

So premium players who may have spent a similar amount OR MORE than some VIP players basically deserve to be left out then? And all because VIP's "deserve" something in addition to the perks they already get?

As someone who DOESN'T live in the US, 14.99 isn't what I would pay. On average for me and my wife to play together on the server we'd have to spend 40 dollars for a months worth of ViP. If we somehow didn't make it to level 20 in a month (Unlikely, though our schedules don't line up as much as we'd like), that's 80 dollars for two months. That's absurd for the privilege to play a temporary server. I know someone is going to respond "Privilege, exactly, which means you have the choice to pay or not" except I have paid, I may not be paying a monthly sub but I have spent over the years money on Airships, astral shards, races, classes, and beyond. So being able to play a server should be doable.

And to the folks that say that Premium players would have to run a quest three times. They INHERENTLY changed how the server operates as far as death is concerned. It's possible they could make it so people can open elite no matter the status. I mean, all VIP does in this regard is essentially flips a switch on the back-end of the game. Same with TR'ing as well, it just checks for that character to have something go from a 0 to a 1 when you TR for opening a higher difficulty.

Hi there, i can see your side of the argument. But i wanted to play Hardcore and the cost of playing was $14.99 a month which i thought was very good value for money, seems i tried to play as often as i could (unfortunately RL commitments did restrict me). $80 dollars for 2 months of gaming for 2 people is actually good value for money, heck you can spend that on a Triple A title and complete it in a day. Were as with DDO you are getting 2 months worth to play as much as you want.

Even though i have been premium since i started I've always thought VIP's should get more benefits for their subscription, they are paying money to DDO/SSG every month, i know some premium players are probably paying the same as well. But as a VIP that is guaranteed money going to SSG every month.

If SSG were to open the Hardcore server to F2P and Premium, i definitely do not agree with them allowing everyone to open up Elite/Reaper difficulty on the first time of starting a quest. If they did that, your basically telling every VIP to cancel their subscription and go Premium.

I noticed in another comment you said that they should make it available in the DDO Store to allow a global unlock on Elite. But there are already items in the DDO store allowing you to unlock elite "Elite Difficulty Quest Unlock Token".

I truly think SSG should actually be coming up with more benefits to VIPs instead of giving what little benefits they have at the moment away to Premium customers.

Now Hardcore has ended my VIP has expired and i am waiting on the next Hardcore, i must admit it is a pain now not being able to open quests on Elite first time but i can always use the DDO Store to unlock it.

[GeoffWatson]

Imagine that the "VIP 3 months" option was instead called "Hardcore server access" for the same $29.97 price.
Would you get it?

[Kabaon]

Hi there, i can see your side of the argument. But i wanted to play Hardcore and the cost of playing was $14.99 a month which i thought was very good value for money, seems i tried to play as often as i could (unfortunately RL commitments did restrict me). $80 dollars for 2 months of gaming for 2 people is actually good value for money, heck you can spend that on a Triple A title and complete it in a day. Were as with DDO you are getting 2 months worth to play as much as you want.

Even though i have been premium since i started I've always thought VIP's should get more benefits for their subscription, they are paying money to DDO/SSG every month, i know some premium players are probably paying the same as well. But as a VIP that is guaranteed money going to SSG every month.

If SSG were to open the Hardcore server to F2P and Premium, i definitely do not agree with them allowing everyone to open up Elite/Reaper difficulty on the first time of starting a quest. If they did that, your basically telling every VIP to cancel their subscription and go Premium.

I noticed in another comment you said that they should make it available in the DDO Store to allow a global unlock on Elite. But there are already items in the DDO store allowing you to unlock elite "Elite Difficulty Quest Unlock Token".

I truly think SSG should actually be coming up with more benefits to VIPs instead of giving what little benefits they have at the moment away to Premium customers.

Now Hardcore has ended my VIP has expired and i am waiting on the next Hardcore, i must admit it is a pain now not being able to open quests on Elite first time but i can always use the DDO Store to unlock it.

Sure, vip's should have more benefits, but not locking an event behind a paywall. If they open it to F2P/Premium we should be able to purchase a global unlock simply because having to buy an elite unlock for the amount of quests is a) a giant hassle, I'd have to go into the ddo store on a per quest basis and probably spend more than just the VIP in ddo points (I assume they are like 25 to 40 points an unlock). I'm trying to avoid having to pay for a service that is pointless and useless to me. I'm not aginst giving SSG my money to play on the server, but apparently they DON'T want my money. And many folks here seem against me giving them money without using a service that is largely redundant to me. Maybe I'm in the 1% of premium players that spend almost as much money as a vip (or at least a good chunk of money) over the last 10+ years.

With my solution the VIP's can still pay to access the server and get to all the quests available. Folks like me would be able to access the server and play any quests we have access to. The argument that VIP's might as well drop their sub if premiums get access is ridiculous, mostly because then they have no P2P quests to play (or not, I dunno how they spend their points or if they disable their sub to buy packs). So......

[Kabaon]

Imagine that the "VIP 3 months" option was instead called "Hardcore server access" for the same $29.97 price.
Would you get it?

No, because I STILL have everything the Hardcore Server offers for content and it's overpriced for Elite unlocks, 10% xp, and 500 points and access to the HC. I'd be looking at maybe $10 for the 3 months for unlock for premiums. Or maybe they could come up with a dynamic pricing structure based off what content you own on your account. So if you have almost everything, the price is reduced for accessing the server.

I'm not saying I'm not willing to pay for the access, I'm not willing to pay that much for access.

But seeing as I'm not part of the US and my costs are higher than yours for paying for stuff, I need to have it be lower in price.... I hate my dollar.

[Fedora1]

But the whole argument here is predicated on the fact that there should be no other way to access the server. There should be.

That's your argument, not ours. It's up to SSG to decide. Others are telling you it's $30 to access the HC server. You say that's elitist. Well, some people pay it. That doesn't make them elitist. We are not the ones excluding you. You are excluding yourself because it is not worth the cost to you.


The folks arguing for it being locked behind a paywall like that are being elitist,

They are niether arguing for it or against it. They are telling you that you can get in too, for $30.



It would also solve some of the "My server was empty because of HC" complaints, where you could jump in and play with those players.

Or would make the complaints higher, since there would be even less people on the regular servers? You know, those people left behind who would argue that $20, or $15, or $5 is too much, and thus SSG is "hiding the HC server behind a paywall"? Then you would become an elitist to them, since you "paid" the $$, but are now excluding them.



But hey, if that doesn't work maybe they'll make a HC server for Premium players where VIP's get locked out of because they have their own HC server.

Sour grapes are sour grapes.

[Fedora1]

But seeing as I'm not part of the US and my costs are higher than yours for paying for stuff, I need to have it be lower in price.... I hate my dollar.

Yeah but don't you get free healthcare and whatnot? LOL :) :)

[Brutuscass]

Imagine that the "VIP 3 months" option was instead called "Hardcore server access" for the same $29.97 price.
Would you get it?

As I am subbed till 06/07/2021 I am unsure of the monthly cost of VIP, I just check the DDO market and only found a two month option for $29.99 and 1 year for $99.99. is there somewhere else where other offers are available?

I agree with you on a "Hardcore server access" which could be used as an offer just before and running concurrent to the event, a discount on VIP during that time, this could also be a good marketing strategy as many will then continue with VIP after.

[Fedora1]

As I am subbed till 06/07/2021 I am unsure of the monthly cost of VIP, I just check the DDO market and only found a two month option for $29.99 and 1 year for $99.99. is there somewhere else where other offers are available?

I currently fall under the 2 year thingy they offered last year, kind of a VIP+ thing, can't remember what it's called.

However, previously I paid $35 every 3 months. It was the cost when I first subbed back in 2009 so I might be grandfathered in on it. Not even sure it's the best deal (compared to $99 annually). I've never bothered to change it, not even sure how I would go about it. Let it lapse, then re-up at whatever the current best deal is probably. Either way I'm not worried about it.

[Kabaon]

That's your argument, not ours. It's up to SSG to decide. Others are telling you it's $30 to access the HC server. You say that's elitist. Well, some people pay it. That doesn't make them elitist. We are not the ones excluding you. You are excluding yourself because it is not worth the cost to you.

For a HC server ignoring everything else about VIP, would you pay 40 dollars. probably not (40 CAD)


They are niether arguing for it or against it. They are telling you that you can get in too, for $30.

I'm not spending 40 dollars for a quarter of the benfits of VIP thanks


Or would make the complaints higher, since there would be even less people on the regular servers? You know, those people left behind who would argue that $20, or $15, or $5 is too much, and thus SSG is "hiding the HC server behind a paywall"? Then you would become an elitist to them, since you "paid" the $$, but are now excluding them.

That's fine, I will understand their side of the argument if they complain. It's why I think there shouldn't be a payment to access the server, but for a global unlock for elite. That way if they don't want to spend money acessing elite, they can at least play still on the server. They also would have the OPTION to purchase VIP (which is great if they don't have access to all of the content like I do)


Sour grapes are sour grapes.

Sure, because then you would finally understand.


Yeah but don't you get free healthcare and whatnot? LOL :) :)

Oh boy, 8+ hour wait times, no doctors, closures of ER's, Months to see doctors, Months to get specialist help. That argument doesn't work anymore. 20 years ago, sure, but not now. We're having a doctor/nurse crisis. But it doesn't surprise me since you guys barely know anything about my country.

Also, the Month to Month cost of VIP is $14.99 US (or $20 dollars CAD)

[sturmbb]

Sure, vip's should have more benefits, but not locking an event behind a paywall. If they open it to F2P/Premium we should be able to purchase a global unlock simply because having to buy an elite unlock for the amount of quests is a) a giant hassle, I'd have to go into the ddo store on a per quest basis and probably spend more than just the VIP in ddo points (I assume they are like 25 to 40 points an unlock). I'm trying to avoid having to pay for a service that is pointless and useless to me. I'm not aginst giving SSG my money to play on the server, but apparently they DON'T want my money. And many folks here seem against me giving them money without using a service that is largely redundant to me. Maybe I'm in the 1% of premium players that spend almost as much money as a vip (or at least a good chunk of money) over the last 10+ years.

With my solution the VIP's can still pay to access the server and get to all the quests available. Folks like me would be able to access the server and play any quests we have access to. The argument that VIP's might as well drop their sub if premiums get access is ridiculous, mostly because then they have no P2P quests to play (or not, I dunno how they spend their points or if they disable their sub to buy packs). So......

Okay so what benefits do you think VIP's should have. Because SSG have given VIPS a benefit of Hardcore which you have complained about. Stating the F2P and Premiums should also have a chance of that benefit. If every time SSG come up with a new benefit for VIPs, are F2P & Premium players going to complain and insist on having that benefit?? if you spend as much money on DDO as you say you do than im sure paying for VIP is within your budget to pay when the Hardcore league comes round again?

I think your missing the point. A lot of people for a long time have stated VIPs are treated poorly and don't get many benefits. So if SSG give Hardcore to F2P/Premium than that is one less benefit VIPs are getting. im sure in the long run if SSG were to do away with VIP only Hardcore access and unlocking quests on elite for everyone. Than by unsubbing and buying the packs they would probably get all the packs within 6 months (using points they have accumulated and sales ETC) and VIP would become a surplus need.

I'm actually surprised you cannot see the bigger picture. SSG are a company, who have overheads etc and to keep the servers running they need to accumulate money. VIPs give guaranteed money every month which keeps the servers running. When I was on the Hardcore server i spoke to many people who had never subbed before (and were premium who had already bought the content) and had come back for the first time. Now if they changed it so F2P & Premium players could access Hardcore think of all the revenue they would lose from people not Subscribing to VIP.

i was happy to pay for VIP to access the Hardcore server and many other people were happy to pay for that privilege. at the end of the day when Hardcore comes back you need to decide if it is good value for money. If not than don't pay and carry on playing on the live servers. But ill be honest i really think you are missing out, it really was an excellent event. I'm back playing now and spending money again on DDO. So i believe the Hardcore server was a success and i am looking forward to the next one :)

[Fedora1]

For a HC server ignoring everything else about VIP, would you pay 40 dollars. probably not (40 CAD)



I'm not spending 40 dollars for a quarter of the benfits of VIP thanks



That's fine, I will understand their side of the argument if they complain. It's why I think there shouldn't be a payment to access the server, but for a global unlock for elite. That way if they don't want to spend money acessing elite, they can at least play still on the server. They also would have the OPTION to purchase VIP (which is great if they don't have access to all of the content like I do)

And we understand your side of the argument. You are tilting at windmills here. I am all for everyone getting access to HC. Just because I am VIP and GOT access, and you decided that it was too expensive for you personally (which no one is arguing) you call us elitist? All I'm saying is you are not winning any support by calling people names and being obtuse.




Sure, because then you would finally understand.

I meant your statement was just sour grapes.




Oh boy, 8+ hour wait times, no doctors, closures of ER's, Months to see doctors, Months to get specialist help. That argument doesn't work anymore. 20 years ago, sure, but not now. We're having a doctor/nurse crisis. But it doesn't surprise me since you guys barely know anything about my country.

Also, the Month to Month cost of VIP is $14.99 US (or $20 dollars CAD)

Dude chill. It was a joke. Laugh a little. :cool:;)

[Kabaon]

Okay so what benefits do you think VIP's should have. Because SSG have given VIPS a benefit of Hardcore which you have complained about. Stating the F2P and Premiums should also have a chance of that benefit. If every time SSG come up with a new benefit for VIPs, are F2P & Premium players going to complain and insist on having that benefit?? if you spend as much money on DDO as you say you do than im sure paying for VIP is within your budget to pay when the Hardcore league comes round again?

I haven't complained at all about what VIP's get as a benefit up until the HC server. I played back when everyone had to run N/H/E to play elite quests, VIP and F2P/Premium. I was there when they changed that and I didn't say a word. And then they added the fact if you TR you get to open hard, and again on elite for TR2+. I am okay with them getting free points, I'm okay with them getting 10% xp and extra character slots and gold rolls and extra saga skips and on and on. The HC server is the only thing i don't agree with. If they add anything else to VIP status beyond a whole server to play on by themselves, then so be it.


I think your missing the point. A lot of people for a long time have stated VIPs are treated poorly and don't get many benefits. So if SSG give Hardcore to F2P/Premium than that is one less benefit VIPs are getting. im sure in the long run if SSG were to do away with VIP only Hardcore access and unlocking quests on elite for everyone. Than by unsubbing and buying the packs they would probably get all the packs within 6 months (using points they have accumulated and sales ETC) and VIP would become a surplus need.

Shocker, welcome to my world with not needing VIP because I've been in that situation for years


I'm actually surprised you cannot see the bigger picture. SSG are a company, who have overheads etc and to keep the servers running they need to accumulate money. VIPs give guaranteed money every month which keeps the servers running. When I was on the Hardcore server i spoke to many people who had never subbed before (and were premium who had already bought the content) and had come back for the first time. Now if they changed it so F2P & Premium players could access Hardcore think of all the revenue they would lose from people not Subscribing to VIP.

Really, new players wouldn't sub for the hardcore server? If they want to be way behind that's up to them I guess.


i was happy to pay for VIP to access the Hardcore server and many other people were happy to pay for that privilege. at the end of the day when Hardcore comes back you need to decide if it is good value for money. If not than don't pay and carry on playing on the live servers. But ill be honest i really think you are missing out, it really was an excellent event. I'm back playing now and spending money again on DDO. So i believe the Hardcore server was a success and i am looking forward to the next one :)

Okay, well if you want me and my wife to play the next hardcore server, you pay for it then. I take e-transfers transfers of 80 dollars CAD.

[Brutuscass]

No, because I STILL have everything the Hardcore Server offers for content and it's overpriced for Elite unlocks, 10% xp, and 500 points and access to the HC. I'd be looking at maybe $10 for the 3 months for unlock for premiums. Or maybe they could come up with a dynamic pricing structure based off what content you own on your account. So if you have almost everything, the price is reduced for accessing the server.

I'm not saying I'm not willing to pay for the access, I'm not willing to pay that much for access.

But seeing as I'm not part of the US and my costs are higher than yours for paying for stuff, I need to have it be lower in price.... I hate my dollar.

Are you Canadian? if so $1.00 US is $1.33 CAN ATM, so how does that come to $40.00 CAN per month? when a two month sub is only US$29.99 or CAN$39.89? are you buying from a doggy dealer:)
SO THAT IS $20 CAN per month or $40 per month for both, though I do agree with you that this is high cost for access to an event server, which really only offers a few possible cosmetic rewards and maybe a name of a toon on a list that few pay any real attention to.

Discounting the very large server pop. and the enforced restrictions there is no difference between any other server, you can test your skills for free by just rolling up a new toon at lvl1 pass no gear to it, and run it at the +4 base level quest restriction, and then just stop running it when/if it dies. then roll another and go again:)

In short you are not missing too much :cool:

[Kabaon]

And we understand your side of the argument. You are tilting at windmills here. I am all for everyone getting access to HC. Just because I am VIP and GOT access, and you decided that it was too expensive for you personally (which no one is arguing) you call us elitist? All I'm saying is you are not winning any support by calling people names and being obtuse.

I only called folks elitist because everything I've read today is basically : We don't want anyone to access the server unless they pay for VIP


I meant your statement was just sour grapes.

Just trying to make a point


Dude chill. It was a joke. Laugh a little. :cool:;)

Hard to read a joke from text, especially something like that. Sorry I took it a little personally.

[Kabaon]

Are you Canadian? if so $1.00 US is $1.33 CAN ATM, so how does that come to $40.00 CAN per month? when a two month sub is only US$29.99 or CAN$39.89? are you buying from a doggy dealer:)
SO THAT IS $20 CAN per month or $40 per month for both, though I do agree with you that this is high cost for access to an event server, which really only offers a few possible cosmetic rewards and maybe a name of a toon on a list that few pay any real attention to.

Discounting the very large server pop. and the enforced restrictions there is no difference between any other server, you can test your skills for free by just rolling up a new toon at lvl1 pass no gear to it, and run it at the +4 base level quest restriction, and then just stop running it when/if it dies. then roll another and go again:)

In short you are not missing too much :cool:

So when I looked at the sub page I had 3 options. The only two I cared to really look at was $9.99 US a month for 3 months which equals to $13.29 a month an CAD (currently). The total cost for 3 months in CAD is $39.87, or $79.74 for my wife and I.

The other option is a monthly option at $14.99 US or $19.74 CAD. So for my wife and I we'd have to spend $39.48 for a single month, $78.96 for 2 months, and $118.44 for all 3 months.

I never had interest in playing a Hardcore toon on normal servers, too much desire to use my airship buffs/gear. I also like the idea of everyone being on a relative even keel appeals to me as well.

[Fedora1]

Hard to read a joke from text, especially something like that. Sorry I took it a little personally.

Understood, no worries. :)

[Brutuscass]

So when I looked at the sub page I had 3 options. The only two I cared to really look at was $9.99 US a month for 3 months which equals to $13.29 a month an CAD (currently). The total cost for 3 months in CAD is $39.87, or $79.74 for my wife and I.

The other option is a monthly option at $14.99 US or $19.74 CAD. So for my wife and I we'd have to spend $39.48 for a single month, $78.96 for 2 months, and $118.44 for all 3 months.

I never had interest in playing a Hardcore toon on normal servers, too much desire to use my airship buffs/gear. I also like the idea of everyone being on a relative even keel appeals to me as well.

First off, sry about the confusion with the per month thing, I was sure that you stated per month, but after reading though all your past post I see that you have calculated correctly.
Yup I see the extreme expense in your case as a couple, it really boils down to disposable income and what one considers worth paying for.

I was Premium for years always bought whatever came out, then they did that darn Lion VIP offer :), sad to say but the extra 10% XP and the running speed alone made me feel it was worth continuing with it after the 2 month offer was up:o then there was the season pass and even though I was highly critical of it I still became one of the 1000:o:o:o

I spend too much on this game, but I love it (sometimes hate it:rolleyes:) but it keeps growing and it needs income for that.

the price is the price, what you get is what you get, if it's not for you then if you don't get VIP for access then you have not been robbed, as I said you did not really miss all that much.

BTW airship weren't non existent, in fact there where some buff almost from day one, thanks to and that's a big thanks to Fawngate a masked hero who set up 2 guilds free for all, and got one into the high 90's and the other to 84 by the end, both with max buff for level and Daedalean Krakens.

Many peps prob spent a small fortune on things like Tomes and pots ect.


P.S. that is to say it was not as level a playing field as you may think.

[Kabaon]

First off, sry about the confusion with the per month thing, I was sure that you stated per month, but after reading though all your past post I see that you have calculated correctly.
Yup I see the extreme expense in your case as a couple, it really boils down to disposable income and what one considers worth paying for.

I was Premium for years always bought whatever came out, then they did that darn Lion VIP offer :), sad to say but the extra 10% XP and the running speed alone made me feel it was worth continuing with it after the 2 month offer was up:o then there was the season pass and even though I was highly critical of it I still became one of the 1000:o:o:o

I spend too much on this game, but I love it (sometimes hate it:rolleyes:) but it keeps growing and it needs income for that.

the price is the price, what you get is what you get, if it's not for you then if you don't get VIP for access then you have not been robbed, as I said you did not really miss all that much.

BTW airship weren't non existent, in fact there where some buff almost from day one, thanks to and that's a big thanks to Fawngate a masked hero who set up 2 guilds free for all, and got one into the high 90's and the other to 84 by the end, both with max buff for level and Daedalean Krakens.

Many peps prob spent a small fortune on things like Tomes and pots ect.


P.S. that is to say it was not as level a playing field as you may think.

Well, it's not like I was totally intending to play with others really, it was just going to be my wife and I playing random builds we've never really given a chance (Healer for example for me). It was planning to be a place where she and I could, I dunno, feel like we were just starting again from scratch, like the original time we played 10+ years ago when the game went f2p. With the live servers we feel too much temptation to just take everything seriously as we TR and Duo everything we can. The added extra element of permadeath that was hardcoded into the server also really intrigued us. Gimmicky, sure, but appealing.

We don't care about leader boards, but had we did anything with significance like getting to 20 or a favor amount we'd take that as an extra bonus win. After playing reaper for a while and only really having 200k rxp on our mains after like 3+ tr's there was no way we'd compete with the folks that have it down to a science XD.

It's the experience we wanted, being left out because of a larger than normal sum of money sucks. I also know that SSG needs to make money, but overall they made money from some VIP's, and in other cases VIP's that were just going to sub for the live servers got a sweet side benefit. I just hope they can take SOME feedback from all this and maybe find a way to make it a little more inclusive to everyone, but I guess I understand if they just can't. But I know from multiple sources between forums, and twitch during the weekly lunchtime stream that there are folks like me that just wanna try that stuff out.

[Brutuscass]

Well, it's not like I was totally intending to play with others really, it was just going to be my wife and I playing random builds we've never really given a chance (Healer for example for me). It was planning to be a place where she and I could, I dunno, feel like we were just starting again from scratch, like the original time we played 10+ years ago when the game went f2p. With the live servers we feel too much temptation to just take everything seriously as we TR and Duo everything we can. The added extra element of permadeath that was hardcoded into the server also really intrigued us. Gimmicky, sure, but appealing.

We don't care about leader boards, but had we did anything with significance like getting to 20 or a favor amount we'd take that as an extra bonus win. After playing reaper for a while and only really having 200k rxp on our mains after like 3+ tr's there was no way we'd compete with the folks that have it down to a science XD.

It's the experience we wanted, being left out because of a larger than normal sum of money sucks. I also know that SSG needs to make money, but overall they made money from some VIP's, and in other cases VIP's that were just going to sub for the live servers got a sweet side benefit. I just hope they can take SOME feedback from all this and maybe find a way to make it a little more inclusive to everyone, but I guess I understand if they just can't. But I know from multiple sources between forums, and twitch during the weekly lunchtime stream that there are folks like me that just wanna try that stuff out.

I get what you are saying, I in fact soloed most of the content apart from in the early weeks when I ran with some guys from my home server, but that turned into a time sink, we had a static group, but they couldn't get into Hardcore. One thing that I got from the HC experience was an improvement in my play style and a move efficient tool tip layout.

A thought on an option to resolve the lock out, SSG could add a free option at Char creation for PermaDeath toons which could be used on any server, then the event can still exist as it is in the future for those who want to have a sense of grading themselves within the game, with the added advantage of those who have trained for it will do better.

Anyway we could go around and round on this one and get no further, so I will wish you all the best and good gaming.

TC


After thought on the Char creation PremaDeath option, those toon could have a Skull over their heads to demonstrate their PD status, and if they do die there could be an option to bring them back to life, but the Toon would lose the Skull.

[KingKoz]

My suggestion for making it open to Premium players would be to let you buy a token on the DDO store for X number of points that lets you create ONE Permadeath character. (Basically, when you finish character creation, you talk to Mortality, and if you're not VIP you have to turn in a token in order to start questing.) Around 500-700 points each seems like a good number to me.

I think this would be on the easy side to implement, and I think that'd be a good option all around.

OR, just pay the $15 for VIP.

[KingKoz]

Hey,

Is there any way non-VIP players might be allowed to join in the Hardcore fun?
1) I really want to try hardcore!
2) I miss being able to find parties for harder content on the main servers while hardcore is up!

Thanks!

Then try Hardcore. You don't need a hardcore server to play permadeath style. Find a party of friends that agree on permadeath rules and make a character, give it no plat and if/when if dies, it's dead. Delete it and start again.

[KingKoz]

Oh I understood, it's NOT quite the same situation.

If I shop at Walmart I can purchase things. If I don't have a sub at "Sam's Club"....or my equivalent that I understand Costco, I can't buy things in bulk. But I have a choice here as I may or may not need bulk items.

Hardcore server isn't the same. I have access to almost all the content in DDO. I've paid for my access to said content (and earned). I'm arbitrarily being locked out of content because I refuse to purchase a mostly pointless (to me) monthly rental fee for content I OWN (yes I know, technically SSG owns it, I just have unlimited access for a one time fee), because I can't open elite.

In this instance it's like I owned a Walmart store, but I'm being told that's not good enough and I should be renting a Sam's Club (or Costco). Doesn't that sound ridiculous? Actually let me rephrase my last statement.... I'm being told that's not good enough and I should be renting a TEMPORARY Sam's Club (or Costco).



Oh wow, so I should spend 80 dollars for my wife and I for 3 months each for a service I DON'T NEED outside of accessing a special server. Wow.... I'd rather spend that waste of 80 dollars on a sports game that gets refreshed once a year because I'll at least get more time with it than over spending 80 dollars for 3 months and losing access to it afterwards (with basically no other benefit as I have more than enough content unsubbed to do just fine). Yeah, no thanks. Just make it accessible to all or don't bother doing it again.

$80?? It cost $27.99 for a 3 month VIP sub x 2 (you and your wife) in my grade school math class was $55.98 but then again, nobody said you had to spend that if you don't want to, but then you also don't get to play. Yes, as a premium player you paid for the packs.....and when new packs come out, you pay for them also. Consider the 3 month VIP sub as paying for a "Hardcore pack". And as a VIP you have already paid for the pack with your monthly sub.

[KingKoz]

Look I get it, but as the benefits of VIP are almost pointless to someone like me and my wife outside of the HC server, it seems a bit pricey given I can play a yearly refresh of a triple A game for the same price.

It's also about HOW they handled it as well. So before the server launched, I KNEW it was VIP only going in. Say no more, not an issue. I figured we would just be locked out from the server at the launcher, no harm no fowl. What has instead happened to me and many others that weren't vip however was that we could log in, get to character select, we were allowed to create a character and ONLY after that was I told "Your not vip, you can't log in".

Now I am aware this is also partially a test from SSG, I am aware that they were on the fence of making it only VIP, but also by doing so they could cover server costs (sort of) and gauge the community interest and involvement. It's been a clear success, so why not open the floodgates, make it so everyone can open elite since they can change what happens on the server and how somethings interact, and even then they could make it so premiums have to purchase a global elite unlock that has a small cost (don't make it a huge sum of ddo points... like no more than 600 points) that lasts until the end of the league (and then the next HC server you have to repurchase the global elite unlock if you want to play again).

That way VIP's still get their perks, and premiums have a choice between running x3 quests or getting to participate as well in the leader boards (that I could care less about personally)



Maybe, maybe not. I'm not saying your dumb for using VIP. I'm saying it's dumb to own 90% of the content (or more) and paying for essentially renting the content I already own(ish).

Yes I do earn points, but actually more often than not I use a percentage of that earnings toward packs/races/classes, but if I want it sooner I purchase points. Over the last 10 years I'm sure I've spent at least 500 dollars on DDO (if not more). But I've also earned my points too by playing. But as I said, if I had no content owned (or very little) VIP seems like a good deal as it gets me into the action faster.

lol, you say, "I KNEW it was VIP only going in" but yet you complain because you were denied at the door? Again, no different than a new update coming out and having to buy it in the store. Think of Hardcore as the pack that a premium player has to buy and a VIP gets.

[Brutuscass]

$80?? It cost $27.99 for a 3 month VIP sub x 2 (you and your wife) in my grade school math class was $55.98 but then again, nobody said you had to spend that if you don't want to, but then you also don't get to play. Yes, as a premium player you paid for the packs.....and when new packs come out, you pay for them also. Consider the 3 month VIP sub as paying for a "Hardcore pack". And as a VIP you have already paid for the pack with your monthly sub.


The "my grade school math class" was a bit out of order, but as you brought it up, did your class cover exchange rates? as they have stated multiple times that they are from Canada, try $55.98 US x 1.33 to covert to CAD, which will give you the Canadian Dollar value, which is just short of of $75 CAD, ok not $80 but rates go up and down and the prices tend to be fixed in game ignoring fluctuations.

[Kabaon]

lol, you say, "I KNEW it was VIP only going in" but yet you complain because you were denied at the door? Again, no different than a new update coming out and having to buy it in the store. Think of Hardcore as the pack that a premium player has to buy and a VIP gets.

Lol, right because a temporary server is akin to purchasing content from the store. I've complained because that I was denied at the door after creating a character to a server I shouldn't have even been able to SEE unless I was a VIP.

I also think it would be fun to have more players join in with the fun. VIP or otherwise.

[Qwikkish]

Just logged in to say What a waste of time. Really was for me.

[Dark_Helmet]

I know the hardcore enthusiasts and server-merging cheerleaders won't want to read this, but the server was like Black Friday. Most everyone came to buy stuff on sale for a limited time at the same time. Playtime was increased because it was only available for a limited time.

If we had HC and servers merged, it won't solve the underlying issue merging server databases will cause even more lag due to how the data is structured - not to mention how an account will handle 80+ characters (assuming 10+ characters per server).

[SpardaX]

Seeing as how you guys are talking about it, I'd like to offer my 2 cents on the HC for Premium or not debate.

Keep in mind, I live in Australia, so my exchange rate is actually 1.47x USD currently. Much worse than his 1.33 or whatever it was for Canada.

I also don't want to shell out for ViP, because I am in the exact same situation as him. I own everything that one can own. Packs. Races. Classes. Banks. Plat Banks. Crafting Banks. Monster Manuals. If it upgrades your account, I bought it and own it.

With that information out of the way, let me say this. I understand that the HC server was supposed to be a ViP draw. I'm not going to argue that they should allow Premium players access. If they do, then I will try it. If they do not, then I will do as I did previously, lament the fact, and go about my business.

But what I will say, is something I have said twice before in various forums, and have yet to get a Dev to notice it (or at least, none has commented on it yet), so I will say it again here.

One side says "Join the club." The other side says "I already own 90% of what the club gives me, so how about no?"

I say, what if we found a middle ground? My idea is, the devs should make a secondary "ViP" option, call it "ViP lite" or "Premium Perks Package", make it between $2 - $5 USD a month, and give it all the ViP perks without the renting content. I, like our Canadian friend, can't justify shelling out $15 x 1.47 a month, for the ability to open elite, and get 10% more xp, HC access and some character slots. $3 x 1.47 is much more palatable. ($5 or $6 is on the high side but I would probably still swallow it if it came with the 500 free ViP points as well.) This way, I would be happy, and I assume the Canadian, even paying for 2 lots for him and his wife, could probably make this work as well?

(Personally I'd be willing to pay up to $3 USD without the free points, or up to about $6 with the free points.)

It will give people like me and him who own everything (or at least, everything they want) a way to get the ViP perks, and I imagine considering there are probably a lot of us out there, would essentially give SSG some free money that they are not currently getting. No content needs to be made. No effort needs to be put in. Literally just free money they aren't getting now, for essentially nothing. The time it takes to set it up.

Please share your thoughts on this, I would like to signal boost it until I can at least get a dev or cordo to respond to the idea, even if the response is "That will never happen" lol :D

[EstaNonde]

Originally I was going to skip the HC server event because I didn't think going VIP for that alone would be worth it. What quickly changed my mind was learning that players would receive all the once-per-world bonuses such as:

- Greater XP Tome
- Greater Epic XP Tome
- Sovereign I pots
- Excellent XP pots
- Sentient XP stones
-Gold Seal Eilleri

These would be pretty pricy to buy with DDO Points! Furthermore, players can unlock first time favor rewards for even more DDO Points. Another hidden benefit from playing HC is being able to transfer a high level character to a server not normally played on, giving a substantial boost to jumpstarting a career there. Sure, all these goodies may be meaningless to some premium players, but for me it was a no-brainer.

I knew I could hit all the milestones I wanted in one month, so that's what I chose. I must say I am happy with my experience, and it was my most useful use of VIP thus far. If premium players are allowed to buy HC character slots, I think they would have to forego all the once-per-world bonuses on HC until they subscribe.

Anyway, the point of this thread was to celebrate, so cheers to the survivors!

[Dendrix]

It's the experience we wanted, being left out because of a larger than normal sum of money sucks. I also know that SSG needs to make money, but overall they made money from some VIP's, and in other cases VIP's that were just going to sub for the live servers got a sweet side benefit. I just hope they can take SOME feedback from all this and maybe find a way to make it a little more inclusive to everyone, but I guess I understand if they just can't. But I know from multiple sources between forums, and twitch during the weekly lunchtime stream that there are folks like me that just wanna try that stuff out.

I think it should remain as VIP. I enjoy playing DDO and I want to continue to play DDO.
SSG need money for that - having people subscribe for 1-3 months gives them money which keeps the game going.
This server is clearly intended to drive VIP subscriptions up, and I hope it succeeds.

You want to try it out? Then pay up for it or do without.
Most of DDO is free (or can be gained by playing for many hours) and earning TP for free.
This is a VIP only benefit and should stay as such.

[fatherpirate]

Here is my grand solution to the 'I wanna play on HC too' issue.

Allow anyone with VIP or 1yr of play (F2P/Prem) to play
no freebies though...getting in dungeons on elite is your problem
(F2P) same restrictions as any other server ...what ever they might be.

to be fair - have 3 leader boards (VIP, Prem, F2P)

Done deal.
No excuses about dead servers...play the event or don't but no more crying.

peace

[rarothrock]

congratz to all who landed their names on those lists! Cordovan, lets have some interviews of the top-placing players about their strategies and builds now.

Edit: kudos for Element and EmbracePike for making it

I plan to make a forum post with this info for those who are interested. Just need to find the time. Trying to catch up on RL stuff now that the event is over.

Ratyr

[Brutuscass]

Seeing as how you guys are talking about it, I'd like to offer my 2 cents on the HC for Premium or not debate.

Keep in mind, I live in Australia, so my exchange rate is actually 1.47x USD currently. Much worse than his 1.33 or whatever it was for Canada.

I also don't want to shell out for ViP, because I am in the exact same situation as him. I own everything that one can own. Packs. Races. Classes. Banks. Plat Banks. Crafting Banks. Monster Manuals. If it upgrades your account, I bought it and own it.

With that information out of the way, let me say this. I understand that the HC server was supposed to be a ViP draw. I'm not going to argue that they should allow Premium players access. If they do, then I will try it. If they do not, then I will do as I did previously, lament the fact, and go about my business.

But what I will say, is something I have said twice before in various forums, and have yet to get a Dev to notice it (or at least, none has commented on it yet), so I will say it again here.

One side says "Join the club." The other side says "I already own 90% of what the club gives me, so how about no?"

I say, what if we found a middle ground? My idea is, the devs should make a secondary "ViP" option, call it "ViP lite" or "Premium Perks Package", make it between $2 - $5 USD a month, and give it all the ViP perks without the renting content. I, like our Canadian friend, can't justify shelling out $15 x 1.47 a month, for the ability to open elite, and get 10% more xp, HC access and some character slots. $3 x 1.47 is much more palatable. ($5 or $6 is on the high side but I would probably still swallow it if it came with the 500 free ViP points as well.) This way, I would be happy, and I assume the Canadian, even paying for 2 lots for him and his wife, could probably make this work as well?

(Personally I'd be willing to pay up to $3 USD without the free points, or up to about $6 with the free points.)

It will give people like me and him who own everything (or at least, everything they want) a way to get the ViP perks, and I imagine considering there are probably a lot of us out there, would essentially give SSG some free money that they are not currently getting. No content needs to be made. No effort needs to be put in. Literally just free money they aren't getting now, for essentially nothing. The time it takes to set it up.

Please share your thoughts on this, I would like to signal boost it until I can at least get a dev or cordo to respond to the idea, even if the response is "That will never happen" lol :D

Ok lets puts this in prospective here, first off whether the exchange rate is higher or low means little on it's own. the average disposable income and cost of living would need to be compared. for me $1 USD x 0.78 bur does that really mean I get it cheaper? well I still pay the same in USD as everyone else.

to keep this simple the average cost of a cup of coffee (average of all types) in the UK in 2018 was £2.44, convert that to Dollars and you get $3.13 USD
the average cost of a cup of coffee in Australia in 2018 is given at $4.14 ASD coverted to USD that is $2.82.

so in fact you guys pay a lot less for a coffee than I do, in USD that is, but as I said we would also need to consider cost of living in each country as well as average income. that starts to get messy and complicated.
So to keep it simple how many coffees in cafes to you buy per month? hoping that you enjoy coffee as much as you do this game;)
(coffee was used as an example, other products could also be used)

as for (Personally I'd be willing to pay up to $3 USD without the free points, or up to about $6 with the free points.) Come on seriously how short are your arms and how deep are your pockets:p The workers at SSG might like the odd coffee every now and again too:) I mean what you are suggesting is a massive cut in income from VIP, though I am sure we would all like to get things for less, remember cheaper is not always better.

No offence meant here, but you did ask for our thoughts

[Brutuscass]

Originally I was going to skip the HC server event because I didn't think going VIP for that alone would be worth it. What quickly changed my mind was learning that players would receive all the once-per-world bonuses such as:

- Greater XP Tome
- Greater Epic XP Tome
- Sovereign I pots
- Excellent XP pots
- Sentient XP stones
-Gold Seal Eilleri

These would be pretty pricy to buy with DDO Points! Furthermore, players can unlock first time favor rewards for even more DDO Points. Another hidden benefit from playing HC is being able to transfer a high level character to a server not normally played on, giving a substantial boost to jumpstarting a career there. Sure, all these goodies may be meaningless to some premium players, but for me it was a no-brainer.

I knew I could hit all the milestones I wanted in one month, so that's what I chose. I must say I am happy with my experience, and it was my most useful use of VIP thus far. If premium players are allowed to buy HC character slots, I think they would have to forego all the once-per-world bonuses on HC until they subscribe.

Anyway, the point of this thread was to celebrate, so cheers to the survivors!

Also the Monster manual has a lot of giveaways, I got a couple of hundred DDO points, around 2250 REMs, some AS which kick started my ShardX trading and some loot boost jewels:)

[Edwardt]

Imagine that the "VIP 3 months" option was instead called "Hardcore server access" for the same $29.97 price.
Would you get it?

That's how I saw that.
I'm usually a premium player who owns pretty much everything you can get as such and doesn't benefit from the VIP status sufficiently enough to keep it up all the time.

But the Hardcore League was worth every single penny!

While leveling three characters up to 20 with the goal to reach the 5k favor I met so many awesome new people, reunited for a time with some who left my home server years ago, ran with some old school legends, was on Twitch streams a couple times and had the best time for ages.

Thanks to all who assisted me to get Jaelryn and Deine up to that point.

I couldn't have done that without you!

I hope we meet again for another league.

[Chacka_DDO]

I know the hardcore enthusiasts and server-merging cheerleaders won't want to read this, but the server was like Black Friday. Most everyone came to buy stuff on sale for a limited time at the same time. Playtime was increased because it was only available for a limited time.

If we had HC and servers merged, it won't solve the underlying issue merging server databases will cause even more lag due to how the data is structured - not to mention how an account will handle 80+ characters (assuming 10+ characters per server).

I dont know what they did different on the hardcore server but seemingly this server was able to handle MUCH more players at the same time without too much server lag issues.
I had only two times really terrible lag on my first character that forced me to bail out of a quest with a teleport...

I dont know if DDO is just that poorly coded or if they run the normal servers on steam-driven machines and this is the reason why we have so much lag on the normal servers.

But what I know is that there are other games who are able to handle MUCH more players on one server and I just assume if SSG would really try they could do that too for DDO!

And if you now tell me that's too much effort and not worthwhile, my estimation is that such a step is FAR more healthy for DDO than e.g. the introduction of horses/mounts to DDO and this would be for sure well worth the man/womanpower to do that.

[rarothrock]

No, because I STILL have everything the Hardcore Server offers for content and it's overpriced for Elite unlocks, 10% xp, and 500 points and access to the HC. I'd be looking at maybe $10 for the 3 months for unlock for premiums. Or maybe they could come up with a dynamic pricing structure based off what content you own on your account. So if you have almost everything, the price is reduced for accessing the server.

I'm not saying I'm not willing to pay for the access, I'm not willing to pay that much for access.

But seeing as I'm not part of the US and my costs are higher than yours for paying for stuff, I need to have it be lower in price.... I hate my dollar.

So this quote sums up your entire position. You think HC was too expensive. We are all sorry it is too costly for you. We want more players after all. But you spent way too much time arguing on this thread just to say, "SSG, please make it available and cheaper for Premium players". You should have just let it go with that and not wasted OUR time with needless arguing. Next time please be more considerate to those of us who read through these threads. Make a point and answer legit questions about it, don't come here to argue.

[Chacka_DDO]

So a game bug killed me with 5786 favor, before the additional 54 favor for Borderlands was added. Was 7th on the leader board at the time. Bug reported and posted in the hope of a positive dev response.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/509663-Precious-Cargo-bugged?

So from the published list, I guess the response is that your time and effort counts for nothing.

I said that already at another spot very early when hardcore just started, in my opinion, it is nonsense that you are erased from the leaderboard after a death.
And this especially under the point of view that you can already die because of a bug or server lag and without doing anything wrong.
I never ever died on hardcore on any character but my opinion did not change because of this.
In this case, the real-life gives you the right idea where persons are sometimes posthumously honored or win prices.
It is already enough penalty on death if you cannot increase your score on the leaderboard any further!
I can just assume that SSG is not really interested in showing who did the best job on the leaderboard, they are just only interested in maximizing their profit.


Edit: If I die to my own overconfidence or incompetence then fair enough, I'll raise a beer, have a laugh and reroll. Wouldn't be the first time and won't be the last :) If I get shafted by a game bug, then I'm not so easy going.

I see it similar, I also die too often on a normal server for different reasons and often enough it is not my personal fault...
But if it is my fault or the fault of one of my group mates I can live with it, not so if it is caused by lag and/or a game bug.

The question is of course if you can prove that your death was caused by lag or a bug.
And if you can prove it, I have also the opinion that SSG should do something about it.
But they said in the FAQ already that they dont care at all if death is not your fault and won't help you :(

[rarothrock]

I dont know if DDO is just that poorly coded or if they run the normal servers on steam-driven machines and this is the reason why we have so much lag on the normal servers.

But what I know is that there are other games who are able to handle MUCH more players on one server and I just assume if SSG would really try they could do that too for DDO!

And if you now tell me that's too much effort and not worthwhile, my estimation is that such a step is FAR more healthy for DDO than e.g. the introduction of horses/mounts to DDO and this would be for sure well worth the man/womanpower to do that.

Chacka, You are exactly right, you DON'T know about the coding or what is involved in addressing this lag issue. I agree that lag seemed to be a little better on HC than the regular servers, but to have you come here saying SSG could do it if they really tried makes you sound pretty much a jerk. And to say that addressing lag is, in your opinion, more important that mounts only shows that you care about what matters to you and not to other players.

I'm on the same page as you when it comes to mounts and cosmetics and stuff like that. What I'm saying is that you could be a little more diplomatic about saying you feel lag is more of an issue than other stuff.

[VirtualReality]

First off had a blast playing on the hardcore server it was a great event.

Looking forward to the next event. However I hope they are spaced out it shouldn’t be too soon.

I hope it stays VIP just to make everything equal among players during the event. If people had different access it would create uneaded issues.

They need to make all new rewards for the next event. If the reaper xp reward is the same but has ll instead of a I on th cloak. Why would I go thru all that work when I already have the original.

I hope the next league starts from scratch again.

I think what made the league so much fun was the fact that I was nervous all the time and having goals to obtain.

Dev’s keep up the good work still enjoying the game sense May of 2006 Been VIP the entire time. Sense SSD took over I have noticed a big change in the right direction.

Great job keep up the good work.

[Chacka_DDO]

Chacka, You are exactly right, you DON'T know about the coding or what is involved in addressing this lag issue. I agree that lag seemed to be a little better on HC than the regular servers, but to have you come here saying SSG could do it if they really tried makes you sound pretty much a jerk. And to say that addressing lag is, in your opinion, more important that mounts only shows that you care about what matters to you and not to other players.

I'm on the same page as you when it comes to mounts and cosmetics and stuff like that. What I'm saying is that you could be a little more diplomatic about saying you feel lag is more of an issue than other stuff.

May I make you aware of the fact that you also DON'T know about what I know and that you can always say things more diplomatic and friendly.
For my part, I can now also say you should say things more diplomatic and friendly to me...

Or we just assume that everyone tries his/her best to be friendly enough and that not everyone ruthlessly fights for his own interests.

I think a server merge is MUCH more healthy for the DDO community and I also think that lag is MUCH more harmful to the game experience of every last DDO player than not having a horse/mount.
This is just my honest opinion even if I like to have the horses now after they introduced them.
I just hope that fighting lag and also making a server merge (ideally ONE BIG DDO Server) possible gets in the future the priority that it deserves!

[rarothrock]

May I make you aware of the fact that you also DON'T know about what I know and that you can always say things more diplomatic and friendly.
For my part, I can now also say you should say things more diplomatic and friendly to me...


I only replied to your post with the same disregard to diplomacy as you did. You get the same respect you give others.

As for not knowing what you do and don't know, your post was pretty clear that you don't know much about their coding. Trying to put the blame to me that I don't know what you know is only you trying to deflect from the point.

You be nice first and you get treated well in response. Also don't make demands when you don't have any clue how things work. This isn't very hard for someone as smart as yourself to understand. You are, after all, on top of the leaderboard. (Congrats, btw.)

[Chacka_DDO]

I only replied to your post with the same disregard to diplomacy as you did. You get the same respect you give others.

As for not knowing what you do and don't know, your post was pretty clear that you don't know much about their coding. Trying to put the blame to me that I don't know what you know is only you trying to deflect from the point.

You be nice first and you get treated well in response. Also don't make demands when you don't have any clue how things work. This isn't very hard for someone as smart as yourself to understand. You are, after all, on top of the leaderboard. (Congrats, btw.)

At first, I see my first post no as unfriendly or not diplomatic enough at all because I always try to be friendly, believe it or not.

You may remember a scene from Kill Bill where Bill told a story from Pai Mai who met a monk who was that "unfriendly" to him that it needed to kill this monk and 50 others...
If you dont know this scene I can assure it's worth to make a research for it...

And at second even if I'm unfriendly this gives you not the right at all to be unfriendly too, this is also an obviously wrong assumption of you.

[Kabaon]

I think it should remain as VIP. I enjoy playing DDO and I want to continue to play DDO.
SSG need money for that - having people subscribe for 1-3 months gives them money which keeps the game going.
This server is clearly intended to drive VIP subscriptions up, and I hope it succeeds.

And you assumed they aren't making money beforehand? How many VIP players were just resubbing anyway before and got an extra benefit by doing so? Or the fact that we JUST came out of an expansion shortly before the HC league started, in addition to an adventure pack a few months after. Sure, it did drive VIP sales up for 1-3 months. But the real question is, how many folks kept the sub after the fact. I bet not as many as you think.

The other point here is that if SSG was doing far worse as a company I'm sure they wouldn't be making plans for 2020 and beyond for DDO and LOTRO. I doubt the company would have gone belly up because people didn't subscribe to to VIP for 3 months. I also understand they are in the business of making money for the well being of the company/shareholders, but I doubt they were even in dire straights before the announcement of the HC server.



You want to try it out? Then pay up for it or do without.
Most of DDO is free (or can be gained by playing for many hours) and earning TP for free.
This is a VIP only benefit and should stay as such.

This is wrong on so many levels. A very LARGE portion of DDO isn't free. I challenge you to look through all of the quests that are purely F2P and remind yourself that most of DDO requires either a hell of a lot of DDO point grinding or a credit card. I counted just from the wiki paid adventure packs there are 51 packs in DDO that require DDO points to obtain, 4 of which I take off the list because of Expansions (though they cost money/ddo points as well). Admittedly the earning of DDO points starts snowballing with the more packs you do own so it is easier to earn later, but usually to get any form of adventure packs as a pure F2P it involves a fair amount of grinding to get even one or two packs at the start.

The only benefit of VIP is that you get all of those packs (minus the x-pacs), the F2P quests associated or just add for free, all races and classes, all the monster manuals (which I forgot about), 10%xp, ability to open elite, free weekly gold rolls, ability to skip a quest in a saga for free, 500 ddo points and now a VIP Only HC server. And yet ONLY after you get a private server to yourself (even temporary), and folks that don't waste their money on a service with little to no value to themselves try to at least get SOME form of inclusion you say "Go f youself, pay up or don't bother coming into our secret hideout from you plebs". That's what VIP players basically show me. Not all of them, but the ones hiding behind "We don't get any value to our 15 dollar subs (or 10 dollar subs).

I'm saying I don't get value from VIP because half of that list I just posted I already OWN.

Also, at least you get stuff from your subscription, I know other MMO sub based systems basically net you access to their content and that's it, no extra bonuses. Using WoW as an example, they spend almost as much as you guys per month, and get access to "retail WoW" and Classic WoW. No xp gains over anyone, no money for the WoW in game shop, no extra character slots. Just your access to their services and that's it. I think you guys have it good tbh.



So this quote sums up your entire position. You think HC was too expensive. We are all sorry it is too costly for you. We want more players after all. But you spent way too much time arguing on this thread just to say, "SSG, please make it available and cheaper for Premium players". You should have just let it go with that and not wasted OUR time with needless arguing. Next time please be more considerate to those of us who read through these threads. Make a point and answer legit questions about it, don't come here to argue.

And this whole post of yours trying to belittle me on choosing to voice my opinion and try to get folks to see it from my point of view is a waste of time.

Also, it's not like you HAD to read this thread, no ones forcing you to. So if I somehow wasted your time, you did it to yourself. But hey, I was making a point and did answer legitimate questions.

Sounds like your just trying to stir the pot.

[Sarkastik]

... persons are sometimes posthumously honored or win prices.
It is already enough penalty on death if you cannot increase your score on the leaderboard any further!

Ironically, there are dead characters on the leaderboard still (or at least one, anyways, that I know of), but nobody seems concerned one way or the other!

[rarothrock]

And at second even if I'm unfriendly this gives you not the right at all to be unfriendly too, this is also an obviously wrong assumption of you.

I disagree. I treat others how they act toward other people around them. It is the only way to show people that they are acting inappropriately. You may not have intended to act poorly, but that doesn't mean you didn't. If I didn't point it out and act that way toward you, you would never know and would not try to do better.

[rarothrock]

Sounds like your just trying to stir the pot.

Dude, give it up. I was saying give it a rest already. If you want to believe I was "stirring the pot" then you might have an issue with delusions of persecution. By arguing your point into the ground you are not convincing anyone to change their mind. THAT is my point. Why else would you continue to press your point? Several people said they saw your point, but disagreed with it. Why would you continue to push after that happened? I was trying to explain to you that you made your point clear, but that you didn't have to convince anyone to agree with you.

[Blah2]

I have said this multiple times, VIP gives me access to content. Adventure Packs, Classes, Races. With some minor perks beyond that. Things I already own (as I've stated multiple times).

I have no issue with folks using VIP to access the server. My issue is that it's THE ONLY WAY to access the server. Again, I own the content on my account, there is no difference in quests between live and HC server, so VIP is POINTLESS for accessing the content.

I'm not saying they can't make money, but there are ways to make money besides locking a whole server behind a paywall. But hey, if you wanna be elitist about it, go right ahead.

No, your issue is the price. Someone suggested a token for 500-700 ddo points and YOU said it was too expensive. If SSG decides thats the price then thats the price. If thats too expensive to you do not buy it and MOVE ON!!

Side note : I am premium and spend around 1000$ US a year on ddo + expansions . I have all the content races classes etc like you do and if i want to do HCL I know the price and can choose to buy it or not. MOVE ON!!

[Blah2]

I only replied to your post with the same disregard to diplomacy as you did. You get the same respect you give others.

As for not knowing what you do and don't know, your post was pretty clear that you don't know much about their coding. Trying to put the blame to me that I don't know what you know is only you trying to deflect from the point.

You be nice first and you get treated well in response. Also don't make demands when you don't have any clue how things work. This isn't very hard for someone as smart as yourself to understand. You are, after all, on top of the leaderboard. (Congrats, btw.)

2 wrongs don't make a right come on

[SpardaX]

as for (Personally I'd be willing to pay up to $3 USD without the free points, or up to about $6 with the free points.) Come on seriously how short are your arms and how deep are your pockets:p The workers at SSG might like the odd coffee every now and again too:) I mean what you are suggesting is a massive cut in income from VIP, though I am sure we would all like to get things for less, remember cheaper is not always better.



I'm a bit disappointed that apparently no one else has even bothered to comment on my idea, but I'll put that aside now to address you, as you at least did.
I'm not sure if you actually read my idea or not though?

How exactly is what I am suggesting, a massive cut in income from VIP?

I am not suggesting they change VIP in any way. If you pay for VIP, and rent all the content in the game and get the VIP perks, that's great. You keep doing that. All the current VIP subs keep going as they are. No loss in income.

What I suggested, is they make an additional subscription model, for people such as me, who already own all the content, and don't see any value in renting what I already own, and as such, won't ever actually subscribe to the current VIP model at the price.

So in total, they keep all their current VIP income from current VIP subscriptions, and ALSO on top of that, gain a smaller amount of income, for a smaller service of just the perks without the free access to races / classes / content, from what I assume is a large portion of their player base who are currently NOT paying ANY subscription fee.

There might be some current VIP people who swap to the lesser pricing, If they decide they no longer want access to most of the game, for whatever reason, and I can see that being a small dip in income, but I for one, as an example, will go from paying $0, to paying them $3 - 5 a month at least, if this idea was made real. A revenue increase. And I am surely not the only one.

TL;DR: The current money stays as is. And current players who won't pay to rent what they already own, start paying something.
This should not result in a loss?

As for the point of Price of the lesser sub model, it can be whatever, we need to at least get the idea on the board before we worry about the price of it.

But if you want to understand my reasoning for the price I listed, here it is. The price for VIP is $15 USD, the question becomes, how do you break that down? It has 500 free points in it, and points seem to roughly equate to 1 US cent. So lets say that 500 free points = $5 of that $15.

So $10 left over. How much is access to all the content and races and classes worth, vs how much is 10% extra xp, 4 character slots, and the ability to open elite worth?

My personal thoughts put what is literally like, 90% of the game's content, at most of that $10. I ballparked it at $7 for that, and $3 for the 10% + Couple slots + Elite opening + HC access, and whatever other perks they get that aren't springing to mind. I'm sure there are more. If you disagree with me on that estimate, I'd be willing to discuss that. Give me a counter point or counter cost breakdown. I said I'd be willing to do $3 - $5, so that puts the estimate at "Almost the entire game" worth only half of that $10, and "ViP Perks" worth the other half. I think that's a bad ratio personally, but I did have it as the high point of still being an option.

But as I said, the idea needs to hit the board first.

[Brutuscass]

I'm a bit disappointed that apparently no one else has even bothered to comment on my idea, but I'll put that aside now to address you, as you at least did.
I'm not sure if you actually read my idea or not though?

How exactly is what I am suggesting, a massive cut in income from VIP?

I am not suggesting they change VIP in any way. If you pay for VIP, and rent all the content in the game and get the VIP perks, that's great. You keep doing that. All the current VIP subs keep going as they are. No loss in income.

What I suggested, is they make an additional subscription model, for people such as me, who already own all the content, and don't see any value in renting what I already own, and as such, won't ever actually subscribe to the current VIP model at the price.

So in total, they keep all their current VIP income from current VIP subscriptions, and ALSO on top of that, gain a smaller amount of income, for a smaller service of just the perks without the free access to races / classes / content, from what I assume is a large portion of their player base who are currently NOT paying ANY subscription fee.

There might be some current VIP people who swap to the lesser pricing, If they decide they no longer want access to most of the game, for whatever reason, and I can see that being a small dip in income, but I for one, as an example, will go from paying $0, to paying them $3 - 5 a month at least, if this idea was made real. A revenue increase. And I am surely not the only one.

TL;DR: The current money stays as is. And current players who won't pay to rent what they already own, start paying something.
This should not result in a loss?

As for the point of Price of the lesser sub model, it can be whatever, we need to at least get the idea on the board before we worry about the price of it.

But if you want to understand my reasoning for the price I listed, here it is. The price for VIP is $15 USD, the question becomes, how do you break that down? It has 500 free points in it, and points seem to roughly equate to 1 US cent. So lets say that 500 free points = $5 of that $15.

So $10 left over. How much is access to all the content and races and classes worth, vs how much is 10% extra xp, 4 character slots, and the ability to open elite worth?

My personal thoughts put what is literally like, 90% of the game's content, at most of that $10. I ballparked it at $7 for that, and $3 for the 10% + Couple slots + Elite opening + HC access, and whatever other perks they get that aren't springing to mind. I'm sure there are more. If you disagree with me on that estimate, I'd be willing to discuss that. Give me a counter point or counter cost breakdown. I said I'd be willing to do $3 - $5, so that puts the estimate at "Almost the entire game" worth only half of that $10, and "ViP Perks" worth the other half. I think that's a bad ratio personally, but I did have it as the high point of still being an option.

But as I said, the idea needs to hit the board first.

In answer to your first question, Yes I did fully read your idea.


Simply because many if not most VIP do in fact own most if not all the content and are not renting (many started off F2P then bought content and at some point or another went VIP), the VIP is not just the content, on top of the 500 DDO points, there is the weekly gold roll, the +10% XP, faster running speed in public areas, number of char slots (6 more than Prem not 4 as you stated)(I know you can buy slots but so can and do VIPs, VIP's have a higher starting number),Idle auto-logout at 60 mins for longer AFKs, able to Skip one quest per Saga (on top of the one that you can skip with shards, therefore in fact able to skip 2 if so wished) first time elite level quest entry (THIS IS A BIG TIME SAVER THEREFORE HAS A HIGH VALUE), All of which you can not get as a Premium player no matter how long your arms or shallow your pockets.
I might have added Full Customer Service, but CS is an illusive beast for everyone these days:mad:

your suggestion is to create a VIP subscription without content access but everything else for $6 USD and only $3 if you don't get the 500 points! :confused:
If you drop the price by $7 then that'will result in a massive cut in income from VIP. Because you are basically proposing nothing more than a price drop. As I said most VIP will own a lot if not most of the content.

Have you even considered the chaos this would cause for existing VIP's? And your new VIP lites?
Unless there have been recent changes that I do not know of, it is impossible to purchase adventure packs while you have a VIP sub running, therefore how would you keep up with owning newer content while in you new VIP lite sub? I suppose you could do short monthly opt ins and buy between. but then if new content came out while you had a couple of weeks left and VIP lite didn't include access....

Unless your VIP lite is just gonna be chip in $3 a month just to get access to the HC server when it's up! and get none of the other benefits i pointed out above.:(


Again many or most VIP's are happy to pay the equivalent of 3-5 coffees a month to get those extras I mentioned above and support the game they like/love playing.


Just to head off a response that may come as "Well they can still pay the same if they want to support the game, but for those like me (that is You) we don't want to stretch our short arms to reach down into the depth of our pockets to support this game"
If you drop the price it would have to be for all! because few VIP's are renting (as you call it) the content. by creating a sub set you will create a chaotic system, now it is simple, you are either a VIP or you are not.
What next? a suggestion for tired VIP's? 50 shades of grey from lite to Dark????!!! depending on how much content a player has purchased?
Just how would you work that? what would be your cost breakdown on that? how would you value it? point value of packs in bands???

your on the road to madness!

VIP is a package there is no cost breakdown!!!


One more final point that you seem to over look is all that you are asking for would not be as easy as pushing a button, SSG would in fact incur cost to create this.


I can not give you a counter cost breakdown as it is a package, a whole for which each VIP will give different values to each aspect, the fact that so many players are VIP's shows that for them it is good value! The only counter point I have for you is that if you don't want to pay the price because you don't think the value is good for you, then you simply don't want it or need it.

Why has no one else commented on your proposal? hmm
I am off for a coffee while that is considered:cool:

post scriptum: if you get an annual VIP it works out at only 3 coffees in a cafe per month :eek:

[rarothrock]

2 wrongs don't make a right come on

Honest question to you... Have you raised any kids to adulthood yet? You can try to teach kids by example, but it doesn't work very well when it comes to their bad behavior. It is a Utopian ideal that is just fantasy. What I mean is, do you realize that if you don't call people out on their bad behavior they will not change? What you see as 2 wrongs is, from my perspective, an attempt to help him understand that he was less than kind with his words toward the SSG team and so by treating him in the same fashion it helped him see that he could have said it better (just as he wanted me to say it better). Sure, I could have said it nicer to him, but he would have not listened. And before you say he might have, he already said he didn't believe that he said anything poorly, and me telling him nicely would not have changed his mind. Me being blunt and giving him a taste of his own medicine may make me look crude, but I believe it got my point across more successfully and is more likely to make him think more carefully about his words when posting here.

[SpardaX]

Simply because many if not most VIP do in fact own most if not all the content and are not renting, the VIP is not just the content, on top of the 500 DDO points, there is the weekly gold roll, the +10% XP, faster running speed, number of char slots (I know you can buy slots but so can and do VIPs, VIP's have a higher starting number),Idle auto-logout at 60 mins for longer AFKs, able to Skip one quest per Saga (on top of the one that you can skip with shards, therefore in fact able to skip 2 if so wished) first time elite level quest entry, All of which you can not get as a Premium player not matter how long your arms are or shallow your pockets I might have added Full Customer Service, but CS is an illusive beast for everyone these days:mad:

your suggestion is that all that should drop to $6 USD and only $3 if you don't get the 500 points! :confused:
If you drop the price by $7 then that'will result in a massive cut in income from VIP. Because you are basically proposing nothing more than a price drop.


But it's not "Simply a price drop" though. I think $3-$5 is a good price for that stuff, minus the renting of content.
And I think $5-$7 for the renting of content is a good price. If you told me when I started playing this game, I'd still be playing it today, I would be a VIP. But Renting what I already own is a bad financial decision. If "many if not most" VIPs are renting what they already own, that is their choice I suppose. I would simply say it's a very poor choice.

Is it really that bad to suggest two different options that cater to different people? If you don't own the content and need VIP to rent it, then yes, you will pay more. If you do already own the content, then I would not expect you to pay for it again.

If they want to do it to support the game, then good on them. But no, I'm not going to tell them to "pay the same if they want to support the game". No. I would honestly tell them to stop wasting their money. Supporting the game is good, but that's a secondary effect. The primary effect of money, is to purchase goods and services. If I own a good, I'm not going to buy it again for no reason.

If it is true that this game is basically being held above water by people paying for things they already own, then yes, that fact does somewhat invalidate my idea. It also means this game is in a far worse state than I previously believed, and that is very bad news. So I VERY STRONGLY hope it isn't.




Unless your VIP lite is just gonna be chip in $3 a month just to get access to the HC server when it's up! and get none of the above.:(


This is laughable, and I assume you meant it as a joke, and will say no more on it.



Just to head off a response that may come as "Well they can still pay the same if they want to support the game, but for those like me (that is You) we don't want to stretch our short arms to reach down into the depth of our pockets to support this game"
If you drop the price it would have to be for all!


Addressed above, but once again, no. The price should not be the same for all. If I want a cheeseburger and you want a steak, you're getting more, you're paying more.

If I don't want the content access, and you do, you're paying more.

If you have the content access, stop paying again. If you are, then that's your choice, but again, I would say, Stop.



One more final point that you seem to over look is all that you are asking for would not be as easy as pushing a button, SSG would in fact incur cost to create this.


I didn't overlook this.

A quote from my original comment:
No content needs to be made. No effort needs to be put in. Literally just free money they aren't getting now, for essentially nothing. The time it takes to set it up.

Let me copy part of that, you may have missed.

for essentially nothing. The time it takes to set it up.

^ This sentence is me not overlooking this. I understand that it isn't a switch to flip. I understand that it will take some time to set up. But once it's done, it's done. It's not a pack or a race to be made and sold once. It is a reoccurring fee, that once it's made, requires no more work. And it will rake in money. And I honestly don't think setting it up would be harder than making a quest or a pack. If it is, then fair enough I guess, but I truly don't think it should be.




Why has no one else commented here? hmm
I am off for a coffee while that is considered:cool:

You seem to want to keep pushing this personal fight about my arms and my pockets, and what I can and cannot afford.

I wanted to remain professional in my previous comment, and ignore it. But you apparently just want to keep pushing it. So let me answer you.

After I pay for rent and living expenses, no, I can't afford 5 coffees a month. If you can, good on you. You go drink your coffee. But this is irrelevant. I honestly probably could not even afford the cheaper alternate option that I am advocating for. What I can afford and what you can afford doesn't matter for the idea.

What matters, is that currently, people who own the content get less of a deal for VIP than people who don't own the content. And the deal they get (at least in my opinion), is not worth how much it costs. And my idea aims to address that.

My idea is a payment method that I could at least maybe afford, but more importantly, I think is fair to people who already own the content and dont want to buy it twice. If you don't think it's fair, that's fine. As I said before, I've put this idea in multiple forums currently, and no one has ever even commented on it (dev or not) besides you, now. So I don't actually think it will ever materialize. I am fine with the fact that I will never get the VIP perks or HC access or any of the other things, because no, I can't afford it. And that's life. As I said in my original comment, I'm not here to say "Give Premiums HC access", and I'm not here to say "Keep HC VIP only!" I just thought it would be nice to come up with an idea that would take what is, (HC being VIP only), and give it a better option, that isn't so hard on the wallet, and that people who own all the content already might actually want.


An alternate idea would be to simply split up the two parts entirely.

Make a VIP subscription where you get ONLY the perks, for $5-7 a month
and a Content Bundle subscription where you get ONLY the renting of content, for $5-7 a month. (And make it so that both prices add up to what VIP currently costs.)

Current VIPs would subscribe to both, and essentially nothing would change.

People like me could subscribe to the "ViP package" and get what we're missing.

And people who don't care for the perks but just want to be able to play the game could subscribe to the Content package and get the game access.


Edit "VIP is 6 character slots not 4"
Ok, you are correct, that's my bad.

[HedgeHogShadow]

My toon should be listed in 13th place on the favor list but is mysteriously missing. Will ther be any double checks to make sure the errors get fixed?

[Brutuscass]

I will Start by pointing out a simple fact VIP is a package!!!! the content is just a part of that and not even a great part for many VIPs


But it's not "Simply a price drop" though. I think $3-$5 is a good price for that stuff, minus the renting of content.
And I think $5-$7 for the renting of content is a good price. If you told me when I started playing this game, I'd still be playing it today, I would be a VIP. But Renting what I already own is a bad financial decision. If "many if not most" VIPs are renting what they already own, that is their choice I suppose. I would simply say it's a very poor choice.
Why do you keep saying that VIP is Renting content? some VIP's may not own (as far as you can ever own any content on an MMO)


it really that bad to suggest two different options that cater to different people? If you don't own the content and need VIP to rent it, then yes, you will pay more. If you do already own the content, then I would not expect you to pay for it again.

Hmm and what if a player owns some of the content? say 80% ? can we get a VIP slightly muddy lite for them?
I personally own close to 90% if not more than and yet am subbed up till June 2021


If they want to do it to support the game, then good on them. But no, I'm not going to tell them to "pay the same if they want to support the game". No. I would honestly tell them to stop wasting their money. Supporting the game is good, but that's a secondary effect. The primary effect of money, is to purchase goods and services. If I own a good, I'm not going to buy it again for no reason.

Well isn't that rich!!! you play the game, I guess because you like the game.
Now people work to make the game and keep it running, yup you have the content, did you pay cash for it or grind for points?
Yup in a way you "own" the goods, but only as long as the service continues!
YOU DO NOT OWN THE SERVICE! that needs continuous payment, you can thank those who go over and above to support the continued service later!



it is true that this game is basically being held above water by people paying for things they already own, then yes, that fact does somewhat invalidate my idea. It also means this game is in a far worse state than I previously believed, and that is very bad news. So I VERY STRONGLY hope it isn't.

Where do you get this information, what is your font? first I have heard of it being held above water, but yes true people like myself are chipping so that others who are free to play can also enjoy the game.





This is laughable, and I assume you meant it as a joke, and will say no more on it.

It is your suggestion and the more you push it the more I agree with the above:cool:




Addressed above, but once again, no. The price should not be the same for all. If I want a cheeseburger and you want a steak, you're getting more, you're paying more.

Again I will draw you to the fact that VIP is a package.
And again I will ask about part "ownership"?

What next? a suggestion for tired VIP's? 50 shades of grey from lite to Dark????!!! depending on how much content a player has purchased?
Just how would you work that? what would be your cost breakdown on that? how would you value it? point value of packs in bands???


I don't want the content access, and you do, you're paying more..

Want or Need?


you have the content access, stop paying again. If you are, then that's your choice, but again, I would say, Stop..

Again, it's a package, not just content!! also it is an act of supporting both the game and non paying players by which I mean not just keeping the game up and running but growing YW!


didn't overlook this.

You clearly did! as from what you have written below, do you truly think that a press of a button could seamlessly create your two tire VIP system!! you have far too simple an understanding on how much would be involved here.
LOL you say "And I honestly don't think setting it up would be harder than making a quest or a pack." just how easy do you think that would be? in man hours.


A quote from my original comment:
No content needs to be made. No effort needs to be put in. Literally just free money they aren't getting now, for essentially nothing. The time it takes to set it up.

Let me copy part of that, you may have missed.

for essentially nothing. The time it takes to set it up.

^ This sentence is me not overlooking this. I understand that it isn't a switch to flip. I understand that it will take some time to set up. But once it's done, it's done. It's not a pack or a race to be made and sold once. It is a reoccurring fee, that once it's made, requires no more work. And it will rake in money. And I honestly don't think setting it up would be harder than making a quest or a pack. If it is, then fair enough I guess, but I truly don't think it should be.




You seem to want to keep pushing this personal fight about my arms and my pockets, and what I can and cannot afford.

I wanted to remain professional in my previous comment, and ignore it. But you apparently just want to keep pushing it. So let me answer you.

After I pay for rent and living expenses, no, I can't afford 5 coffees a month. If you can, good on you. You go drink your coffee. But this is irrelevant. I honestly probably could not even afford the cheaper alternate option that I am advocating for. What I can afford and what you can afford doesn't matter for the idea..

But it does! as I explained before VIP is not content rental, though some may see it that way, but most others don't, you know I am not a rich man, I live within my means.
I am not even on an annual VIP sub, I'm one of the 1000 who bought the Season pass! yup I'm subbed till June 2021. which means I "own" any purchasable content that came/comes out between 1st Jan 2019 and 31st Dec 2020
If you go back though the forum for the announcement for the season pass last year, you will see my posts in which I am highly critical of the way it was pushed, but I bought it not because it was good value, because it certainly was not, but because I support the game and by people like me paying in it keeps the game going and growing for those who don't! YW

I am sorry to hear about your personal finical situation. but your idea is just wrong crazy and poorly thought out on so many levels! again it is a package, Not a rental agreement for content! if you make it so then you will need to start valuing all VIP subs base on how much they own! Once you open that can of worms the whole VIP concept falls apart and the game will start losing support as the good feeling goes from the game.

I'm sorry if you took offence with my short arm deep pocket remark, but VIP's support the game and as a result F2P players don't need to, but what happens? we are consider as idiots for doing so by some people who either can't or don't want to support the game!

Nobody and I repeat nobody is being forced to become VIP it is a choice, and as I said it is a package, not content rental!
Many if not most VIP's sub because they love the game, like the extras, which should not be under valued as much as you have done!

But above all our subs pay towards the continued enjoyment of all! including you!

yes you may have paid in to buy points in the past, unlike some who grind away to earn them and I have nothing against people who do so, they have my full respect!

BUT LETS GET ONE THING CLEAR, YOU ARE NOT COMPLAINING BECAUSE YOU ARE A VIP AND FEEL YOU ARE GETTING A BAD DEAL!

ALL THIS IS REALLY ABOUT YOU WANTING ACCESS TO A SMALL PART OF THE BENEFITS OF BEING A VIP WITHOUT TAKING THE NEGATIVES!

SORRY BUT CAKE AND EAT IT!

YES THE HARDCORE SERVER WAS FOR VIPS ONLY, WELL YOU GET OUT WHAT YOU PUT IN!

GOOD LUCK ON GETTING ANYONE ELSE TO GIVE YOU FEED BACK ON THIS MATE!

I'M DONE WITH THIS, YOU WOULD TAKE US ALL DOWN A ROAD TO MADNESS, 50 SHADES OF VIP FROM LITE TO DORK!


P.S. No one other than SSG owns the content known as premium Adventure packs, you gain access to it, you did not buy said packs! what you bought if you paid cash where tokens now called DDO points which you can use in game, when you used them you no longer owned them!

[Brutuscass]

My toon should be listed in 13th place on the favor list but is mysteriously missing. Will ther be any double checks to make sure the errors get fixed?
I f you haven't already transferred it then don't they should be looking into this sometime today, leave your Toon on that server until you have vitrification, that said if you don't get it before the 1st Dec it would be best to transfer as to not miss the deadline of Dec 2nd

[Chacka_DDO]

I disagree. I treat others how they act toward other people around them. It is the only way to show people that they are acting inappropriately. You may not have intended to act poorly, but that doesn't mean you didn't. If I didn't point it out and act that way toward you, you would never know and would not try to do better.

Again, in my opinion, I was not unfriendly at all, this is just only your opinion which is most likely based on the fact that I see things differently from you and this is the real problem you have.
Or you felt you have to "defend" SSG for whatever reason.
It is never easy to communicate that you are not satisfied with something no matter how much cream and cherry you put on it to make it sound nice and friendly.
I just only prefer to communicate my opinion as clear as possible.


2 wrongs don't make a right come on

Exactly, as I said even IF I was unfriendly (I still dont think I was unfriendly or mean at all) this gives someone else, not the right to be unfriendly too and the thought of "teaching someone a lesson" is simply wrong.

And to make this conversation not totally senseless for this thread...
Yes even if I dont know the code, we have a lot of signs that tell us that SSG could make normal servers running with less lag if they really want and I think it is a high possibility that they just save money on the wrong end with low-performance hardware...

They most likely just knew that they cannot afford awful server performance on the hardcore server where every death counts and for this reason, they may be made the hardcore server different from a normal server.
And it appears to me they basically know-how to set up servers with low lag problems if they really want.

But for what reason should SSG invest money in better hardware and better coding?
If yes men tell them everything is fine or if players (like me) tell them everything is not fine and lag spoils our game experience?
Sometimes things have to be said even if they are inconvenient and even if one sounds unfriendly or impolite for that reason.

And the same for server merges (in my opinion if any possible into one big server) there is a reason that we see over the years so many threads that demand server merges because the server population is obviously way too low for a healthy MMORPG experience with DDO.
The DDO community demands server merges already for years but of course, this makes only sense if this is possible with not much more server-lag issues.
SSG should simply give this the priority that it deserves!
And In the end they do it for there own best if they want satisfied players/customers and maybe even a DDO community that grows again in a healthy way.

[Brutuscass]

Again, in my opinion, I was not unfriendly at all, this is just only your opinion which is most likely based on the fact that I see things differently from you and this is the real problem you have.
Or you felt you have to "defend" SSG for whatever reason.
It is never easy to communicate that you are not satisfied with something no matter how much cream and cherry you put on it to make it sound nice and friendly.
I just only prefer to communicate my opinion as clear as possible.



Exactly, as I said even IF I was unfriendly (I still dont think I was unfriendly or mean at all) this gives someone else, not the right to be unfriendly too and the thought of "teaching someone a lesson" is simply wrong.

And to make this conversation not totally senseless for this thread...
Yes even if I dont know the code, we have a lot of signs that tell us that SSG could make normal servers running with less lag if they really want and I think it is a high possibility that they just save money on the wrong end with low-performance hardware...

They most likely just knew that they cannot afford awful server performance on the hardcore server where every death counts and for this reason, they may be made the hardcore server different from a normal server.
And it appears to me they basically know-how to set up servers with low lag problems if they really want.

But for what reason should SSG invest money in better hardware and better coding?
If yes men tell them everything is fine or if players (like me) tell them everything is not fine and lag spoils our game experience?
Sometimes things have to be said even if they are inconvenient and even if one sounds unfriendly or impolite for that reason.

And the same for server merges (in my opinion if any possible into one big server) there is a reason that we see over the years so many threads that demand server merges because the server population is obviously way too low for a healthy MMORPG experience with DDO.
The DDO community demands server merges already for years but of course, this makes only sense if this is possible with not much more server-lag issues.
SSG should simply give this the priority that it deserves!
And In the end they do it for there own best if they want satisfied players/customers and maybe even a DDO community that grows again in a healthy way.


AH huumm

Skinny old dude who has been sitting up tree for many years says "remember offence is always taken. never given":D

On a more serious note, the problem is that from one end of the net to the other there are lots of nods, info travelling on hardware the is sometimes 30 years old, it is hard to say sometimes where the fault is. Yes sometimes it is down to a problem at one end or the other, but often the cause may well be external.

Hmm sry to disagree and no offence meant in doing so, but really most of this low server population concept is due to in many cases people who are in time zones which are off peak to North America, the habit of closed grouping and the wide choice of content over 30 different levels. more than a sever merge what is needed are time zone servers. that at least might make the picture clearer.

As for a server merge, I fear you would displease more players than you would please. if they were forced to leave their guilds, clear out any and all TR caches and then go though all there toons, when all they want to do is play, also I imagine that such a thing would have a time limit which might cause conflicts with RL.

If it isn't really broken then don't force it, for every "we need a server merge" there are multiples who say "we don't" and then everyone else just going about their own business:)

As for a DDO community that grows, we have one, just not growing in number, Just growing old and in size:p at least in my case

[SpardaX]

Why do you keep saying that VIP is Renting content? some VIP's may not own (as far as you can ever own any content on an MMO)


Dictionary: Rent: verb. Meaning: Pay someone for the use of (something, typically property, land, or a car).

When you rent a thing, you pay a continual fee, for the purpose of gaining access to something, and when you stop paying, you lose access to the something.

Is that not how VIP works in regards to content?




Hmm and what if a player owns some of the content? say 80% ? can we get a VIP slightly muddy lite for them?
I personally own close to 90% if not more than and yet am subbed up till June 2021


No. That player would choose whether he considered the 20% worth shelling out for the entire VIP package, or (and what I would personally advise as the smarter option), would buy the remaining 20% and then opt for the cheaper option, that I am advocating. This is of course assuming the player wants the 20% they apparently have specifically not already purchased.

If you already own 90% of the content, then for you, I would once again recommend you decide whether or not you want the remaining 10%, but regardless of that, sub to the alternate option I am advocating. If you own the content you want to play already, it would mean you save money and lose nothing. Do you not want that?



Well isn't that rich!!! you play the game, I guess because you like the game.
Now people work to make the game and keep it running, yup you have the content, did you pay cash for it or grind for points?
Yup in a way you "own" the goods, but only as long as the service continues!
YOU DO NOT OWN THE SERVICE! that needs continuous payment, you can thank those who go over and above to support the continued service later!


Yes, I understand that I do not own the service, and that it needs continuous payment. I am simply asking for a subscription model, that I think better suits a large portion of players who are currently paying nothing. I want to give them money. I want to support the service. I simply don't want to pay for a thing twice.




Where do you get this information, what is your font? first I have heard of it being held above water, but yes true people like myself are chipping so that others who are free to play can also enjoy the game.


Have you not seen the many forums related to the game dying? Have you not felt it for yourself? I don't know if you logged onto a non HC server during the HC months, but my server was a near ghost town, and I've heard similar reports from other servers.




It is your suggestion and the more you push it the more I agree with the above:cool:


I'm not sure what you mean by "I agree with the above" so I don't know what to do with this.




Again I will draw you to the fact that VIP is a package.
And again I will ask about part "ownership"?

What next? a suggestion for tired VIP's? 50 shades of grey from lite to Dark????!!! depending on how much content a player has purchased?
Just how would you work that? what would be your cost breakdown on that? how would you value it? point value of packs in bands???


VIP is a package. You are correct.
It is also possible for a company to sell different packages, aimed at different consumers, who are in different circumstances. So I suggest that they make 50 different shades of VIP? No.

But if a dev said tomorrow, that they WERE doing that, I would be very happy, and 100% support it. Having different options is NEVER a bad thing. More options is always better.




You clearly did! as from what you have written below, do you truly think that a press of a button could seamlessly create your two tire VIP system!! you have far too simple an understanding on how much would be involved here.
LOL you say "And I honestly don't think setting it up would be harder than making a quest or a pack." just how easy do you think that would be? in man hours.


"Do you truly think that a press of a button could create your two tier VIP system?"
You asked me that already. And I have already said no. Twice now. This would make the third time. They do not have a magic button. It will take time. But I am very confident that it would take much less time than a pack would.

To answer your second question:
In man hours? I don't know. I am not a programmer. So I can't make an educated guess on this.
As for a guess based on limited programming and coding knowledge however, I am quite sure that setting up a lesser VIP option, which they would be able to essentially copy paste a lot of the current VIP code, and go through and remove some things, would be much easier than programming animations. Programming models and textures. Getting the graphics artist team in. Getting the modeling team in. Making enemies. Making new areas. Correcting stuck spots in said new areas. Etc...Etc...

I can't give you a quote in man hours, but if someone told me that making a second VIP option was harder than making an entire new content pack, I would not believe them.





But it does! as I explained before VIP is not content rental, though some may see it that way, but most others don't, you know I am not a rich man, I live within my means.
I am not even on an annual VIP sub, I'm one of the 1000 who bought the Season pass! yup I'm subbed till June 2021. which means I "own" any purchasable content that came/comes out between 1st Jan 2019 and 31st Dec 2020
If you go back though the forum for the announcement for the season pass last year, you will see my posts in which I am highly critical of the way it was pushed, but I bought it not because it was good value, because it certainly was not, but because I support the game and by people like me paying in it keeps the game going and growing for those who don't! YW

I am sorry to hear about your personal finical situation. but your idea is just wrong crazy and poorly thought out on so many levels! again it is a package, Not a rental agreement for content! if you make it so then you will need to start valuing all VIP subs base on how much they own! Once you open that can of worms the whole VIP concept falls apart and the game will start losing support as the good feeling goes from the game.

I'm sorry if you took offence with my short arm deep pocket remark, but VIP's support the game and as a result F2P players don't need to, but what happens? we are consider as idiots for doing so by some people who either can't or don't want to support the game!

Nobody and I repeat nobody is being forced to become VIP it is a choice, and as I said it is a package, not content rental!
Many if not most VIP's sub because they love the game, like the extras, which should not be under valued as much as you have done!

But above all our subs pay towards the continued enjoyment of all! including you!

yes you may have paid in to buy points in the past, unlike some who grind away to earn them and I have nothing against people who do so, they have my full respect!

BUT LETS GET ONE THING CLEAR, YOU ARE NOT COMPLAINING BECAUSE YOU ARE A VIP AND FEEL YOU ARE GETTING A BAD DEAL!

ALL THIS IS REALLY ABOUT YOU WANTING ACCESS TO A SMALL PART OF THE BENEFITS OF BEING A VIP WITHOUT TAKING THE NEGATIVES!

SORRY BUT CAKE AND EAT IT!

YES THE HARDCORE SERVER WAS FOR VIPS ONLY, WELL YOU GET OUT WHAT YOU PUT IN!

GOOD LUCK ON GETTING ANYONE ELSE TO GIVE YOU FEED BACK ON THIS MATE!

I'M DONE WITH THIS, YOU WOULD TAKE US ALL DOWN A ROAD TO MADNESS, 50 SHADES OF VIP FROM LITE TO DORK!


P.S. No one other than SSG owns the content known as premium Adventure packs, you gain access to it, you did not buy said packs! what you bought if you paid cash where tokens now called DDO points which you can use in game, when you used them you no longer owned them!

There is a lot to unpack here, but lets see what I can respond to.




ALL THIS IS REALLY ABOUT YOU WANTING ACCESS TO A SMALL PART OF THE BENEFITS OF BEING A VIP WITHOUT TAKING THE NEGATIVES!


Yes. That is how buying things works. If you are going to sell me some item, and say "This is pretty great. But also it has some dents in it and such" I would not buy it. Or at the very least, I would want to pay a lesser price, for a lesser product. If you're trying to sell me a fridge, and I already own a fridge, I would not buy it. You are correct, I would like to gain access to the benefits, without gaining the thing I already have access to (I'm not sure I'd call this a "negative", but let's give you the benefit of the doubt on that.). I would be paying money for the privilege. I'm not understanding why this is a bad thing?




SORRY BUT CAKE AND EAT IT!


Umm, Ok? Either you don't know what this means, or you've used it incorrectly. I think in this case, having the cake and eating it too would imply I want VIP as it currently is, either for free, or for the lesser price I've mentioned.

I am not wanting that however. I want a lesser deal. For a lesser price. Whether or not we agree with how much that lesser price should be, I am asking to pay less, but I am asking -for- less. Having to choose whether to "Have your cake" or "Eat your cake", is all about choosing what to trade off, or lose and keep, in a given situation. And I am 100% advocating trading price for features. What I am saying is literally the opposite of that proverb.




YES THE HARDCORE SERVER WAS FOR VIPS ONLY, WELL YOU GET OUT WHAT YOU PUT IN!


Yes. And as I said previously, if nothing changes, and I don't gain access to the server, then I am ok with that. That's life.



P.S. No one other than SSG owns the content known as premium Adventure packs, you gain access to it, you did not buy said packs! what you bought if you paid cash where tokens now called DDO points which you can use in game, when you used them you no longer owned them!

I paid money. I can play the packs I have purchased. I can play them now. I can uninstall the game. Not play it for 50 years, and then, assuming the game lasts 50 years, reinstall the game and play them in 50 years from now. I own them, in so much as one can own digital goods, until the game no longer exists. I would also say I own the games in my steam library, even though I fully understand that if Valve took Steam offline tomorrow, I would permanently lose access to it entirely. Until such a time comes, I own that content.
I don't quite understand what you are trying to say here, either you're attempting to clarify something that doesn't mean anything, or....you're simply going out of your way to call it something different? In which case....Ok? If I don't "Own" the content, but have simply paid to have access to the content forever or until the game dies, ok and? That matters to the conversation how?



but your idea is just wrong crazy and poorly thought out on so many levels!


Ok, if you think that, why? I'm not perfect. I'm not going to sit here and say my idea is perfect. That's why I wanted people to give some discussion on it. Give me some reasons you think it's crazy wrong and poorly thought out. So far, all I think I've gained from our conversation is "VIP is worth it as is, even if you already own all the content. It doesn't need to be fractured. Pay for it if you care about the game."
Which, I mean, I disagree with on all 3 points. But it would seem we won't be coming to any sort of understanding on those any time soon. Do you have any other reasons to discuss? Or a better thought out or less crazy wrong proposition? Something I can work with besides "I pay for it so it's fine for you to pay for it"? Because based on the quote above, you should have more than simply these 3. That would be all of 1 level.

Also, Quote/Unquote, you mentioned repeatedly that VIP isn't a rental service, I'm not going to quote/unquote it here, I'll just reply to it.
You are sort of correct and sort of not. VIP is not -Just- a rental service. But it most certainly IS a rental service. The rental service is in fact, it's biggest pull and selling point. If you are going to attempt to tell me that is incorrect, I don't even know what to say or do beyond point at it (VIP), point at the literal definition of "Renting" I gave at the top of this post, and shrug.

[Brutuscass]

Dictionary: Rent: verb. Meaning: Pay someone for the use of (something, typically property, land, or a car).

When you rent a thing, you pay a continual fee, for the purpose of gaining access to something, and when you stop paying, you lose access to the something.

Is that not how VIP works in regards to content?

NO! you will also need to reconsider your thought of ownership which you are also wrong about!


read this!
Taken from Dungeons & Dragons Online United States End User License Agreement

The Software and Games are not sold to you, but licensed according to the terms and conditions of this Agreement. Subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement and conditioned on your continued compliance with the Terms of Service (http://www.daybreakgames.com/termsofservice.vm), we hereby grant to you a non-exclusive, non-transferable, non-sublicenseable, revocable, limited right and license to: (a) install the Software solely for your personal, non-commercial use; (b) use the Software solely in connection with playing Games via an authorized Account; (c) use and display the Software (including, without limitation, source and object code) solely in connection with playing Games for your personal non-commercial use by any machine(s) of which you are the primary user and for which you have the right to use, and (d) access and utilize the Game's library of digital objects (e.g., Daybreak Game Assets, such as, weapons, ammunition, and other digital downloads) in order to play the Game. You will obtain a limited license for the right to use the Daybreak Game Assets, and you will not acquire any ownership interest in the Daybreak Game Assets.

YOU ARE GRANTED A LIMITED LICENSE!
NOTHING MORE, NO RENTING AGREEMENT, NO OWNERSHIP!

OWNERSHIP

Daybreak Property. Daybreak and/or its licensors own and retain all right, title and interest relating to or residing in the Software, Games and Daybreak Game Assets, all data in connection therewith, and all copies thereof, including without limitation, any titles, computer code, themes, objects, characters, names, stories, dialog, locations, concepts, artwork, landscape designs, animations, sounds, musical compositions and recordings, audio-visual effects, character likenesses, methods of operation, moral rights, and any related documentation and user manuals (collectively, the “Daybreak Property"). The Daybreak Property incorporates and is protected by various intellectual property rights, including, without limitation, copyrights, trademarks, patents, trade secrets, moral rights, database rights and other intellectual property and proprietary rights (collectively, “Intellectual Property Rights”). Except for the revocable, limited license expressly granted above, you acknowledge and agree that you have not and will not acquire or obtain any Intellectual Property Rights, including, without limitation, any right of exploitation, of any kind in or to the Daybreak Property, and/or any compilation or copyrightable arrangement thereof, and that the Daybreak Property is exclusively owned by Daybreak. Daybreak reserves all rights not expressly granted to you in this Agreement. PLEASE NOTE THAT UNAUTHORIZED USE OF THE DAYBREAK PROPERTY MAY SUBJECT YOU TO MONETARY DAMAGES AND OTHER CIVIL AND CRIMINAL PENALTIES, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, FOR COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT.



Go here and read it all https://www.ddo.com/en/dungeons-dragons-online-united-states-end-user-license-agreement

show me a clause concerning renting content!


I am Truly sorry but you are wasting your time and mine.

AS I SAID BEFORE I'm done with this!

OK I have added this!


I paid money. I can play the packs I have purchased. I can play them now. I can uninstall the game. Not play it for 50 years, and then, assuming the game lasts 50 years, reinstall the game and play them in 50 years from now. I own them, in so much as one can own digital goods, until the game no longer exists. I would also say I own the games in my steam library, even though I fully understand that if Valve took Steam offline tomorrow, I would permanently lose access to it entirely. Until such a time comes, I own that content.

Your using steam for this game!!! why? why on earth are you doing that!
Add another link to the chain why not:rolleyes:

Just download it and run it from your desk top

and I do know the meaning of cake and eat it, the reason why I used it seems have gone over your head

Just to be clear as I said I own a lot of the content, I went VIP in march 2017 and at that point I "owned" (had access to) everything that was out by that time, now as a VIP I will admit I could not buy (hahum I mean pay for access to) any more Premium Adventure packs, due to how they are locked out in the store for VIP accounts, seem it would need some work to sort that, something you would need to consider with VIP lite no content added!
Anyway back to my point, since 1st Jan 2019 every Prem Adventure pack that comes out is given to my account due the Season pass.
so I (Have access to) most of the content even w/o VIP. So why is it that you being of no real difference to me feel that you should get all the other Benefits for a 3rd of what VIPS are paying when there are prob. thousands like me.
you want the Extras but wont pay the full cost! i.e. cake and eat it.

[Brutuscass]

Have you not seen the many forums related to the game dying? Have you not felt it for yourself? I don't know if you logged onto a non HC server during the HC months, but my server was a near ghost town, and I've heard similar reports from other servers.
.

This in fact deserves a response.

1, Yes, but that is silly the game is not Dying, if it were we would not be seeing great new content at the rate were are seeing it, the Devs would not have resources to tidy up old content as they are doing!

2, No, I have not felt a thing certainly not in the last 3 months, it was rocking over there on the Hardcore server.

3, You might not know if I logged on to a non HC server during the the HC event, but I do :p

4, there were a lot of peps on the HC server, just going to show that there are a lot of players who have no problem with the cost of VIP!!! and their income is good for SSG so how can it be dying!

Talking of Dying a lot of Dying went on during the HC event, yet the list of toons alive at lvl 5 plus at the close is over 6k long!! there are a few players there.


Now why is it that you are trying to talk people out of being Real VIPs who want to support the game?



If you already own 90% of the content, then for you, I would once again recommend you decide whether or not you want the remaining 10%, but regardless of that, sub to the alternate option I am advocating. If you own the content you want to play already, it would mean you save money and lose nothing. Do you not want that?.

NO!!! Because as I have clearly pointed out I am not a cheap skate trying to get as much as I can for as little as possible, I support the game and it's growth! I see the worth in the game.

[Cordovan]

My toon should be listed in 13th place on the favor list but is mysteriously missing. Will ther be any double checks to make sure the errors get fixed?

Yes, we are currently looking into the cause of a few reports that players who feel they should be on the leaderboard are not. As soon as I know more I will let you know. In the meantime, if you have an impacted character, please leave that character on the Hardcore League server for now. There will still be a chance (although it'll be later) to transfer that character for free.

[Cordovan]

Also, can we please not clutter this thread with an argument over access to the Hardcore server? This discussion is not particularly relevant to the final standings of season one, and I'd prefer to use this thread to address any further announcements and information we need to publish.

[OzmarDDO]

Well, it's not like I was totally intending to play with others really, it was just going to be my wife and I playing random builds we've never really given a chance (Healer for example for me). It was planning to be a place where she and I could, I dunno, feel like we were just starting again from scratch, like the original time we played 10+ years ago when the game went f2p. With the live servers we feel too much temptation to just take everything seriously as we TR and Duo everything we can. The added extra element of permadeath that was hardcoded into the server also really intrigued us. Gimmicky, sure, but appealing.

Why don't you just sign up for VIP for 3 months and play then?

Simple solution.

-Ozmar the Helpful

[Sarkastik]

Yes, we are currently looking into the cause of a few reports that players who feel they should be on the leaderboard are not. As soon as I know more I will let you know. In the meantime, if you have an impacted character, please leave that character on the Hardcore League server for now. There will still be a chance (although it'll be later) to transfer that character for free.

Will you also be verifying that everyone on the list is a character that really survived? I know of at least one dead character that is listed.

[GeneralDiomedes]

For the time it takes to write these replies you could could make $15 on mechanical Turk and pay for a sub.

[Kabaon]

Why don't you just sign up for VIP for 3 months and play then?

Simple solution.

-Ozmar the Helpful

It's not, and had you bothered to read ANY of my follow up posts you'd see why I didn't want to pay for VIP for access to a temp server.

And I'm not getting into it again here because people keep telling me "Shut up, your wrong, go away" (but seeing they don't understand basic economics I'm inclined to ignore their opinions) or because Cordovan doesn't want anymore posts on the subject (even though it probably would be a good idea to look into said topic).

[Brutuscass]

Also, can we please not clutter this thread with an argument over access to the Hardcore server? This discussion is not particularly relevant to the final standings of season one, and I'd prefer to use this thread to address any further announcements and information we need to publish.

Good point Cordovan, Sorry for my part in all that, I should have just gone to bed left it alone:o

Anyway a question about the final shutdown of the after party, I am guessing that it will also be at midnight EST on the 2nd of December, Is that right?

I'll have all my toons out by well b4 then, I ask more to get it here for those who might be waiting for results on the leader board.

[Cordovan]

Good point Cordovan, Sorry for my part in all that, I should have just gone to bed left it alone:o

Anyway a question about the final shutdown of the after party, I am guessing that it will also be at midnight EST on the 2nd of December, Is that right?

I'll have all my toons out by well b4 then, I ask more to get it here for those who might be waiting for results on the leader board.

I think it is more likely to be mid-morning on the 3rd, since timing is less important due to the competition being done. The server will then reopen for character transfers after we do some necessary game-wide server work, then some additional work on character transfers. Probably January for a return of character transfers after the 2nd of December.

[Brutuscass]

I think it is more likely to be mid-morning on the 3rd, since timing is less important due to the competition being done. The server will then reopen for character transfers after we do some necessary game-wide server work, then some additional work on character transfers. Probably January for a return of character transfers after the 2nd of December.

ok cool.
I did read something about the reopening but it confused me, not too hard to do at times:)

So just to be clear, if a toon is left on that server it will still be there in January? in the case that someone misses the December deadline.

I thought the HC server would be wiped just after the close in December

[fatherpirate]

I think it is more likely to be mid-morning on the 3rd, since timing is less important due to the competition being done. The server will then reopen for character transfers after we do some necessary game-wide server work, then some additional work on character transfers. Probably January for a return of character transfers after the 2nd of December.

game-wide server work ?

are we talking hardware or a server consolidation ?
or some memory leak stomp?

I am...curious

[Aeron1976]

So a game bug killed me with 5786 favor, before the additional 54 favor for Borderlands was added. Was 7th on the leader board at the time. Bug reported and posted in the hope of a positive dev response.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/509663-Precious-Cargo-bugged?

So from the published list, I guess the response is that your time and effort counts for nothing.

Edit: If I die to my own overconfidence or incompetence then fair enough, I'll raise a beer, have a laugh and reroll. Wouldn't be the first time and won't be the last :) If I get shafted by a game bug, then I'm not so easy going.

Had the same bug 2 days ago on Thelanis.

Short video here:

https://youtu.be/eGhL2fwsrOA

[Aeron1976]

Yes, we are currently looking into the cause of a few reports that players who feel they should be on the leaderboard are not. As soon as I know more I will let you know. In the meantime, if you have an impacted character, please leave that character on the Hardcore League server for now. There will still be a chance (although it'll be later) to transfer that character for free.

But please look also into those toons that have died for sure.

I actually have a Screenshot of the death message of one toon that is still on the boards.

[Aeron1976]

Last but not least:

I really enjoyed the Hardcore League but tbh it killed the population on the other servers.

So please, please let it return once per year at the most!

Every 2 years would be enough imho, or shorten the duration to 1 or 2 months.

[Edwinge]

I think it is more likely to be mid-morning on the 3rd, since timing is less important due to the competition being done. The server will then reopen for character transfers after we do some necessary game-wide server work, then some additional work on character transfers. Probably January for a return of character transfers after the 2nd of December.

Can you elaborate on what the additional work on character transfers is? Will you be fixing it so that guild leaders can be transferred/copied? I forgot to disband my guild on hardcore before the event ended and I only had vip for the 3 months of the event. Now I can't transfer one of my characters unless I sub again. Given that the competition is over, it would be really nice if you had removed the vip requirement for the after party.

[Cordovan]

Can you elaborate on what the additional work on character transfers is? Will you be fixing it so that guild leaders can be transferred/copied? I forgot to disband my guild on hardcore before the event ended and I only had vip for the 3 months of the event. Now I can't transfer one of my characters unless I sub again. Given that the competition is over, it would be really nice if you had removed the vip requirement for the after party.

This will largely be non-visible related to additional required work to re-enable character transfers following upcoming server work. Most likely starting next week we will be doing server maintenance that will involve lengthy downtimes per world, done on a world-or-two-per-day basis. Each world's downtime will likely be most of a work day. We recently completed this work over on the LOTRO side, and now it is DDO's turn.

[Cordovan]

Just wanted to say that we've added three names to the leaderboard (the three folks here who reported that they should be on but somehow got dropped off the table.)

[Aeron1976]

Allow anyone with VIP or 1yr of play (F2P/Prem) to play

Definitely NO!

I was VIP for a few years after I started, then I thought "I just buy all packs/races/classes etc." and drop down to "Premium" since it made sense to me financially.

Some years ago Turbine started to implement small changes that made VIP attractive again (e.g. Xp/Speed Bonus) so I went VIP again, and these subscriptions are what keeps the game alive. Bills have to be paid for all at SSG.

Since the Hardcore League was such a success it should stay VIP only and like many said there is a 3 months sub, so it is like a "one time investment" every year or so SSG runs it.

Good for the game and thereby good for us, who love this game

[Acrisius]

Definitely NO!

I was VIP for a few years after I started, then I thought "I just buy all packs/races/classes etc." and drop down to "Premium" since it made sense to me financially.

Some years ago Turbine started to implement small changes that made VIP attractive again (e.g. Xp/Speed Bonus) so I went VIP again, and these subscriptions are what keeps the game alive. Bills have to be paid for all at SSG.

Since the Hardcore League was such a success it should stay VIP only and like many said there is a 3 months sub, so it is like a "one time investment" every year or so SSG runs it.

Good for the game and thereby good for us, who love this game

I couldn't agree more! Keep it VIP. One of my good friends, part of our static group of nearly 10 years, said, "I enjoyed VIP more than I realized until yesterday when it was gone." He will be renewing.

[Graskitch]

Just wanted to say that we've added three names to the leaderboard (the three folks here who reported that they should be on but somehow got dropped off the table.)

is there any reason that those three people had been dropped from the leaderboard?

In adding those 3 names, were the last 3 people on the list bumped off?

How do we know that the leaderboard is accurate? S

omeone else on this thread was reporting earlier that there was still someone on the leaderboard who was dead (although a name was not mentioned).... it is possible however the player that they think is 'dead' might actually be someone that renamed their living character to the name of their previous character that had died, who knows?

[Zogid]

I really enjoyed the HC server. However, here are my demands:

1. Open world battle royale at the end for the number one spot.
2. The winner receives 1000000 ddo points
3. Reprogram the entire game to have all the things every player likes
4. Time the next HC so i can go to my kids piano recitals on sunday afternoons
5. Get more players by having an ad during the superbowl
5b. Get more players by offering a free bucket of chicken wings with every vip purchase
6. Give me creative control over all character /dance animations
7. Call the server: "The challenging but not impossible server" so as not offend any pornstars who play ddo

Thanks

[Brutuscass]

I really enjoyed the HC server. However, here are my demands:

1. Open world battle royale at the end for the number one spot.
2. The winner receives 1000000 ddo points
3. Reprogram the entire game to have all the things every player likes
4. Time the next HC so i can go to my kids piano recitals on sunday afternoons
5. Get more players by having an ad during the superbowl
5b. Get more players by offering a free bucket of chicken wings with every vip purchase
6. Give me creative control over all character /dance animations
7. Call the server: "The challenging but not impossible server" so as not offend any pornstars who play ddo

Thanks

;):cool::D:p:):eek: Love it:o

[Brutuscass]

In adding those 3 names, were the last 3 people on the list bumped off?


unless I counted wrongly, there are now 103 names on the Favor Leader-board so I guess not.

[Fedora1]

i really enjoyed the hc server. However, here are my demands:

1. Open world battle royale at the end for the number one spot.
2. The winner receives 1000000 ddo points
3. Reprogram the entire game to have all the things every player likes
4. Time the next hc so i can go to my kids piano recitals on sunday afternoons
5. Get more players by having an ad during the superbowl
5b. Get more players by offering a free bucket of chicken wings with every vip purchase
6. Give me creative control over all character /dance animations
7. Call the server: "the challenging but not impossible server" so as not offend any pornstars who play ddo

thanks

lol! :D

[Jerevth]

I agree: HC should remain VIP.
I paid for VIP specifically to play in HC. It makes sense that there should be profit as a result of the coding effort and opening another server to support.
It's not a free concert- it's a VIP event. If my name isn't on the list, I don't get in.

I loved it; I met some great people, and was part of a huge, active guild, and had an appreciative audience for all my dad jokes.

Well worth the money.

[ironmaiden-br]

Just wanted to say that we've added three names to the leaderboard (the three folks here who reported that they should be on but somehow got dropped off the table.)


Tks bro!

Now i can transfer the toon to my home server right?

[Loromir]

I really enjoyed the HC server. However, here are my demands:

1. Open world battle royale at the end for the number one spot.
2. The winner receives 1000000 ddo points
3. Reprogram the entire game to have all the things every player likes
4. Time the next HC so i can go to my kids piano recitals on sunday afternoons
5. Get more players by having an ad during the superbowl
5b. Get more players by offering a free bucket of chicken wings with every vip purchase
6. Give me creative control over all character /dance animations
7. Call the server: "The challenging but not impossible server" so as not offend any pornstars who play ddo

Thanks

I know this was posted in jest...but I would be all for #1.

[Darsch82]

I believe that early 2020 is too soon.

I don't think it is soon enough. Season should run for four months with new season starting immediately upon end of the last season.

[Sarkastik]

Someone else on this thread was reporting earlier that there was still someone on the leaderboard who was dead (although a name was not mentioned).... it is possible however the player that they think is 'dead' might actually be someone that renamed their living character to the name of their previous character that had died, who knows?

The only way that is possible is if the person whose character died renamed it to something else, and then some other person with the same amount of RXP, who I had never noticed on the leaderboard previously, renamed their character to have the exact same name as the character in question who died. I doubt very much that this is what happened. Much more likely is that the person's character simply was not removed from the leaderboard when they died.

I'm not naming names because I'm strongly suspicious that there must be other dead characters on the leaderboard as well, and I think SSG owes it's players some basic due diligence in checking through the list for dead characters. I'm disappointed that this is being ignored.

[Cordovan]

is there any reason that those three people had been dropped from the leaderboard?

In adding those 3 names, were the last 3 people on the list bumped off?

How do we know that the leaderboard is accurate? S

omeone else on this thread was reporting earlier that there was still someone on the leaderboard who was dead (although a name was not mentioned).... it is possible however the player that they think is 'dead' might actually be someone that renamed their living character to the name of their previous character that had died, who knows?

It is not at all clear how those three people were dropped from the leaderboard, unfortunately, although it is probably related to the bug that caused dead people to need to be manually cleaned off the leaderboard this season. I did add the names and not remove any. I would say the Hardcore Leaderboard for Season One is about as accurate as it is going to be, and any errors will need to be figured out so we have a more bulletproof leaderboard next time around. On the allegedly dead people still on the leaderboard, all of the cases we have checked have been a character dies, gets deleted, new character with same name created, and that 2nd character achieves the leaderboard number.

[Graskitch]

It is not at all clear how those three people were dropped from the leaderboard, unfortunately, although it is probably related to the bug that caused dead people to need to be manually cleaned off the leaderboard this season. I did add the names and not remove any. I would say the Hardcore Leaderboard for Season One is about as accurate as it is going to be, and any errors will need to be figured out so we have a more bulletproof leaderboard next time around. On the allegedly dead people still on the leaderboard, all of the cases we have checked have been a character dies, gets deleted, new character with same name created, and that 2nd character achieves the leaderboard number.



boo! I wanted to see someone get bumped off of the leaderboard list when you added the 3 names!!! boo.


on an off-topic, what was your favorite character name that appeared on the hardcore league leaderboard?

[Zogid]

I know this was posted in jest...but I would be all for #1.

Ya was thinking that would be awesome. All the lists are frozen and finished.. but a final reward for the winner... if they could do it, wow!

Lol

mayhem

[jsavorn]

My suggestions are as follows:

1. Merge to 1 large server - Players soloing and the lack of grouping opportunities problems will be solved by condensing the servers (or make separate continent servers - of note: the lag was not noticeable on the HC server even with a multitude of players playing/ larger player base than any of the other regular servers) - this has been needed for a long while
2. Make HC an event exclusive to VIP players
3. Make the HC event only during non-special event times
4. Rewards should be purely cosmetic & be different from HC seasons (please make sure the bugs are worked out BEFORE the server goes "LIVE")
5. All NAMED loot should be bound-to-character (on the HC server) - promotes more teamwork and prevents "farming" toons

The teamwork and large groups produced an AMAZING experience and I truly loved it! Players giving away loot to other players in the group & full groups was great!
I know that most players, like myself, who have been playing 10+ years loved this event and energized the player base. With that said, it's those same VIP players who generate 90%+ of the revenue $ (80/20 principle) and who events like this should cater to. Hence why merging servers into ONE large server would serve the non-VIP players who contribute only 10% - to the economic base of the game. It's a simple business model and a simple fix to keeping this amazing game going (and even grow it). Teamwork, loot sharing, and communication are what pen and paper DnD is all about and the lack thereof is the core reason why DDO is slowly dying.

Please consolidate the servers, continue to put out great new content, and keep HC going :)

Gezus of Thelanis (hopefully of the future "America's" server)

[duey]

It is not at all clear how those three people were dropped from the leader board, unfortunately, although it is probably related to the bug that caused dead people to need to be manually cleaned off the leader board this season. I did add the names and not remove any. I would say the Hardcore Leader board for Season One is about as accurate as it is going to be, and any errors will need to be figured out so we have a more bulletproof leader board next time around. On the allegedly dead people still on the leader board, all of the cases we have checked have been a character dies, gets deleted, new character with same name created, and that 2nd character achieves the leader board number.

I wasn't going to post but when I read the only names added back were people who posted here, along with comment that the list is about as accurate as it is going to be, I felt the need. My char 'Organictofu' was 1/2 down rp board when I stopped playing around Nov 11'th. I am currently running around quite alive in marketplace doing transfer stuff, with rp's still placing me around the 50'th spot.

Some of us needed the full 3 months and quite a few re rolls just to get on the list. Please take your time checking the list a final time. Being finalized on the list is a big deal to some people and I am guessing the list can't be edited after Monday. An accurate list come Monday evening should be priority #1 versus transfer concerns, which can be fixed at a later date.

As directed, I am leaving my toons on the HC server until directed otherwise.

[Brutuscass]

My suggestions are as follows:

1. Merge to 1 large server - Players soloing and the lack of grouping opportunities problems will be solved by condensing the servers (or make separate continent servers - of note: the lag was not noticeable on the HC server even with a multitude of players playing/ larger player base than any of the other regular servers) - this has been needed for a long while
2. Make HC an event exclusive to VIP players
3. Make the HC event only during non-special event times
4. Rewards should be purely cosmetic & be different from HC seasons (please make sure the bugs are worked out BEFORE the server goes "LIVE")
5. All NAMED loot should be bound-to-character (on the HC server) - promotes more teamwork and prevents "farming" toons

The teamwork and large groups produced an AMAZING experience and I truly loved it! Players giving away loot to other players in the group & full groups was great!
I know that most players, like myself, who have been playing 10+ years loved this event and energized the player base. With that said, it's those same VIP players who generate 90%+ of the revenue $ (80/20 principle) and who events like this should cater to. Hence why merging servers into ONE large server would serve the non-VIP players who contribute only 10% - to the economic base of the game. It's a simple business model and a simple fix to keeping this amazing game going (and even grow it). Teamwork, loot sharing, and communication are what pen and paper DnD is all about and the lack thereof is the core reason why DDO is slowly dying.

Please consolidate the servers, continue to put out great new content, and keep HC going :)

Gezus of Thelanis (hopefully of the future "America's" server)

I have been giving this some thought for a couple of days now.

1. Again with this server merge demand!
A) Have you truly considered just how much this would disrupt the player base? Loss of guilds and guild-ships which some player will have paid a lot of money to get shards to buy!
OK I suppose if it were to all go on one big server SSG could work out some method of transferring everything, how feasible that would be is questionable though. could they include in this new form a way of transferring TR banks (caches), how long would you give players to get it all sorted, what about players taking a break or serving away from the game?
B) Is soloing a problem? even on the HC server at peak times many players Soled.
C) The lack of grouping opportunities is much more to do with the great variety of content than player numbers, granted that more people on one server will increase the chance that others will want to do the same content as you, but it will in no way guarantee it. (it may have seemed to work better on the HCS but remember, everyone was starting off at the same place and goals were similar, mix things up on a live server and you have a totally different story)
Yup in the old days you could fill almost any LFM (though even then there could be long waits) but that was because everyone was limited to far fewer quests and we were capped at level 20. now we have a two tier game, epic and non epic. Not to mention Reaper and non reaper players.
D) You state that "the lag was not noticeable on the HC server even with a multitude of players playing" this may well have been your experience, but there are many who were not as fortunate as you, I certainly noticed game play issues due to response time issues. Remember absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
E) Though it would be great to be able to log on and open the LFM page and find or form a group within a few mins, I doubt that a server merge would create this utopia. But the saying concerning eggs and baskets does spring to mind.

2. Isn't HC already an event exclusive to VIP players? did you mean Keep it so, or were you suggesting something else?

3. On this one you have my total agreement and I would add if possible that it not be interrupted by too many updates and extended downtime's, but that might be asking too much.

4. Again I agree, I imagine that they have already considered this with the Reaper Cloak, which no doubt will have "II" instead of "I" next season.

5.
i) Not a good idea, it will involve a lot of messing around, basically creating new versions of previously Non bound or BTA named (HC BTC) items (should that status change if the items are transferred to a normal server?).
ii) why? the concept is 'Test your DDO skills'. how people play the game as long as they do so within the ToS should be up to them. the time limit is the same whether they run just one toon or many, in fact if they just run one first to farm on casual/normal in the first month all the way to 20 then TR with all that gear how is that all that different from having farming toons?

I agree in part with your closing statement though somewhat confusing, but I feel I must comment on this
Teamwork, loot sharing and communication are what pen and paper DnD is all about and the lack thereof is the core reason why DDO is slowly dying.
a) This is not PnP it is something different, PnP involves real people in a real space in a closed (sometimes rather selective) group, questing taking weeks rather than minutes or hours and organisation involves much more than clicking on an LFM. There are online VR alternatives but DDO is not one of them.
b) The game is not dying!! it may not be working for you as you see it, but it is not dying!! if it were we would not be seeing the great new content at the rate we are and the HC would not have been as full as it was. I was on the HC server a lot when it was up, and it was kicking, I did even check in on my home sever at least once a day and though there were few LFM's up, the server was still alive (there are a lot of EXVIP, F2P or Premium players and not all the VIP's came over to HC). ((something that you might like to consider when figuring performance into your "Merge to 1 large serve" proposal.))

Now I started playing this game in 2009 and "taking off the rose coloured glasses" I don't remember it being overly crowded even with the greatly restricted content and few public areas, yup there where always LFMs up for the same old content, sometimes up for close to an hour, hell I remember Shroud LFM's up for well over an hour, sometimes not even filling! ah ye good olde days:cool:

You can find posts about DDO dying and Server merger demands going back years! I did a quick search and pulled up posts back as far as may 2011! well in the sense that everything is in fact dying as soon as it is born then maybe there is a point, but as there is still growth, I can't see that this game has even reached it's peak.
Some may ask if it stands like a mighty Oak, and others may look at the Acorn that just bounced of their bonce:)

I fully understand that we are both basing our statements on our subjective observational evidence and that only SSG has any empirical evidence on this, but as they seem happy to keep investing in the game I feel that the statement below is a good reflection of things.

If anything the cause of your concern over the state of the games health is more to do with it's growth than any perceived decline.

[HedgeHogShadow]

Can it be confirmed that we'll be able to transfer again at a later date per the statement, ""There will still be a chance (although it'll be later) to transfer that character for free. "?

I'm only concerned because I'm waiting to transfer to see if my name can be fixed on the leaderboard (it got added THANKS!!! - but my last name was left off).

If it's too late and no fixes can be made, I'll go ahead and transfer today, but if there's time to transfer later, I can leave the character on the server in hopes the name will get fixed.

[Cordovan]

Can it be confirmed that we'll be able to transfer again at a later date per the statement, ""There will still be a chance (although it'll be later) to transfer that character for free. "?

I'm only concerned because I'm waiting to transfer to see if my name can be fixed on the leaderboard (it got added THANKS!!! - but my last name was left off).

If it's too late and no fixes can be made, I'll go ahead and transfer today, but if there's time to transfer later, I can leave the character on the server in hopes the name will get fixed.

In your case, feel free to transfer today. I just haven't had time yet to add your character's surname. Yes, though, there will be another opportunity to transfer off of the Hardcore server, although it'll likely be in the new year once this initial time period is done.

[duey]

We will look into it on Monday. Just keep that character on the Hardcore server for now please.

Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
"It is not at all clear how those three people were dropped from the leader board, unfortunately, although it is probably related to the bug that caused dead people to need to be manually cleaned off the leader board this season. I did add the names and not remove any. I would say the Hardcore Leader board for Season One is about as accurate as it is going to be, and any errors will need to be figured out so we have a more bulletproof leader board next time around. On the allegedly dead people still on the leader board, all of the cases we have checked have been a character dies, gets deleted, new character with same name created, and that 2nd character achieves the leader board number."

I wasn't going to post but when I read the only names added back were people who posted here, along with comment that the list is about as accurate as it is going to be, I felt the need. My char 'Organictofu' was 1/2 down rp board when I stopped playing around Nov 11'th. I am currently running around quite alive in marketplace doing transfer stuff, with rp's still placing me around the 50'th spot.

Some of us needed the full 3 months and quite a few re rolls just to get on the list. Please take your time checking the list a final time. Being finalized on the list is a big deal to some people and I am guessing the list can't be edited after Monday. An accurate list come Monday evening should be priority #1 versus transfer concerns, which can be fixed at a later date.

As directed, I am leaving my toons on the HC server until directed otherwise.

2nd post.
I was in same position, vip expired about 7 days before event ended, so I re-subed so I could get access to my toons and set up transfers. I loaded up my toon Organtictofu, who again did not die, in fact I claimed the r10 reward on the normal servers. I just checked on Orien, and and now can't claim my reward for r10 from Organictofu, though I was able to before? I left my toons on the HC server to transfer later so there would be time to check that my toon is alive. I should be able to claim my reward AND be on the leader board...what is going on? Not happy having to resub for essentially nothing on top of missing all the December sales.

[Brutuscass]

2nd post.
I was in same position, vip expired about 7 days before event ended, so I re-subed so I could get access to my toons and set up transfers. I loaded up my toon Organtictofu, who again did not die, in fact I claimed the r10 reward on the normal servers. I just checked on Orien, and and now can't claim my reward for r10 from Organictofu, though I was able to before? I left my toons on the HC server to transfer later so there would be time to check that my toon is alive. I should be able to claim my reward AND be on the leader board...what is going on? Not happy having to resub for essentially nothing on top of missing all the December sales.

Server restart so I popped back here.

Sorry to hear that you have had this problem, Just out of curiosity what level was Organtictofu at the end of the event? because if lvl5+ you have also been missed of the survivor list.
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/510200-Hardcore-League-Season-One-Survivor-s-List!

Maybe the the server didn't like a Vegan named toon on the HC bloodbath:p

Have you sent screen shots of the toon that has the Reaper cloak to CS with details, you might get a better response that way than posting here.

[Cordovan]

The Hardcore League server has reopened for additional character transfers and other after party activity through January 5th. Once the Hardcore League server is closed after January 5th, the server will not reopen until Season Two, at which point there will be a character database purge. Make sure to get your stuff done before January 6th!

[Cordovan]

Just to reiterate: Players have through January 5th to get their characters off of the Hardcore server. This is the final window for character transfers - Now through January 5th.

[Brutuscass]

The Hardcore League server has reopened for additional character transfers and other after party activity through January 5th. Once the Hardcore League server is closed after January 5th, the server will not reopen until Season Two, at which point there will be a character database purge. Make sure to get your stuff done before January 6th!


Just a quick question about Season 2, will it be a totally clean server giving all first time bonuses for Favor rewards and the like? or will those who took part in part one be counted as secondary chars?

[Fedora1]

Once the Hardcore League server is closed after January 5th, the server will not reopen until Season Two, at which point there will be a character database purge.


Just a quick question about Season 2, will it be a totally clean server giving all first time bonuses for Favor rewards and the like? or will those who took part in part one be counted as secondary chars?

They are not just deleting characters, they are purging the database. It will be a clean start, so there is no record of any characters ever having been created on the server. This would indeed mean that all first-time triggers will occur.

[Brutuscass]

They are not just deleting characters, they are purging the database. It will be a clean start, so there is no record of any characters ever having been created on the server. This would indeed mean that all first-time triggers will occur.

That's what I was thinking and am hoping, just wanted to get a confirmation from SSG, it was the term ' character database purge' rather than as you put it 'purging the database' the first stating that all characters be removed, the second indicating that all account information is also removed as it does not specify any sub set.

The use of the word character as an adjective effects the noun purge as in the type of purge to be carried out.

the phrase 'I like peanut butter' does not state that I like butter, ok that might be confusing to you.

does this mean all cars or just one particular color of car? 'a blue car removal policy' will red cars be left as they are?

please lets not get into another pointless discussion over how the English language works and who has inside information on what SSG has planned.

I do thank you for your response and it is not my intention of offend you, but the question was to Cordovan and it is a valid one.



Just to reiterate: Players have through January 5th to get their characters off of the Hardcore server. This is the final window for character transfers - Now through January 5th.

[Fedora1]

That's what I was thinking and am hoping, just wanted to get a confirmation from SSG,

No worries, no explanation beyond this needed.

I suppose for those of us that are forever-VIP it makes no difference, we will likely still participate in the next round. If it turns out that the first time bonuses are gone, we just say oh well and some will play anyway some will log in to do the gold roll and then go back to their main servers.

I suppose the question is slightly more relevant to those who only sign up for the 3-month sub in order to participate in hard core. Would the first time favor rewards (a few DDO points) actually be a determining factor if you wanted to sub for hard core or not? Seems like a mighty small thing IMO compared to everything else offered with a 3 month VIP sub (1500 DDO Points, gold rolls, movement speed, xp bonus, etc.).

[Brutuscass]

No worries, no explanation beyond this needed.

I suppose for those of us that are forever-VIP it makes no difference, we will likely still participate in the next round. If it turns out that the first time bonuses are gone, we just say oh well and some will play anyway some will log in to do the gold roll and then go back to their main servers.

I suppose the question is slightly more relevant to those who only sign up for the 3-month sub in order to participate in hard core. Would the first time favor rewards (a few DDO points) actually be a determining factor if you wanted to sub for hard core or not? Seems like a mighty small thing IMO compared to everything else offered with a 3 month VIP sub (1500 DDO Points, gold rolls, movement speed, xp bonus, etc.).

I just have a bad habit of dotting the I's and crossing the T's:o

Yup no doubt I will be on there like a shot asap, though hopefully next time I will see it coming and get some rest before the marathon season, I was using matchsticks to keep my eyes open by the final week in season one:(

I was wondering more about the other lovely stuff I got like the Permanent Cleric Hireling from the starter pack, heroic tome of learning and so on which only came to the first toon I logged on to, the first time favor would be nice, but you are right not a game breaker.







Just to reiterate: Players have through January 5th to get their characters off of the Hardcore server. This is the final window for character transfers - Now through January 5th.

[Fedora1]

I just have a bad habit of dotting the I's and crossing the T's:o

I can totally understand this. lol


I was wondering more about the other lovely stuff I got like the Permanent Cleric Hireling from the starter pack, heroic tome of learning and so on which only came to the first toon I logged on to, the first time favor would be nice, but you are right not a game breaker.

Oh you know what, I didn't even think about the tome or cleric. They definitely increase the value, but only if you have alts you play regularly. What else am I forgetting about?

[duey]

Server restart so I popped back here.

Sorry to hear that you have had this problem, Just out of curiosity what level was Organtictofu at the end of the event? because if lvl5+ you have also been missed of the survivor list.
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/510200-Hardcore-League-Season-One-Survivor-s-List!

Maybe the the server didn't like a Vegan named toon on the HC bloodbath:p

Have you sent screen shots of the toon that has the Reaper cloak to CS with details, you might get a better response that way than posting here.

I have screen shots, but don't know how to link it here in forums, or in game ticket, which I sent. Was hoping for email reply so I can send it there. Lvl 12 fvs tr'd 'organictofu'

** I have made an in game ticket, sent a email with pic to SSG support, and replied to Cordovan here and am holding the toon on the HC server until its gets fixed...2 weeks until server wipe

[Brutuscass]

I have screen shots, but don't know how to link it here in forums, or in game ticket, which I sent. Was hoping for email reply so I can send it there. Lvl 12 fvs tr'd 'organictofu'

** I have made an in game ticket, sent a email with pic to SSG support, and replied to Cordovan here and am holding the toon on the HC server until its gets fixed...2 weeks until server wipe

I wish you the best of luck there, hopefully it will be resolved for you.

you shouldn't need to post pics here as long as you are sure that SSG have received and read your email, but if you ever want to add a pic to a forum post in the future this will help.
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/492809-Posting-pictures-on-Forums

the first response works for me, only one correction needed, which is you don't even need to set up an account with Imgur you can just drag a pic into the box and then copy the share link BBCODE option, then use insert image from the tools above when post a forum post, you will need to uncheck the box, but then it will work:cool:
in fact you can just go straight here https://imgur.com/ click on the NEW POST+ box in the top left of the screen, drag the file with your pic into the box your picture should be now on to imgur, on the picture (or just to side of it) you want to post. on the top right side there is a share option to click on for a drop down menu , there will be a bunch of copy options. Use the BBCode option, hit copy, then just paste the link into the section in the box that opens when you click of the insert image icon in the tools, in your forum post here. remember to uncheck the box, that should sort it.


Just to reiterate: Players have through January 5th to get their characters off of the Hardcore server. This is the final window for character transfers - Now through January 5th.

[duey]

I wish you the best of luck there, hopefully it will be resolved for you.

you shouldn't need to post pics here as long as you are sure that SSG have received and read your email, but if you ever want to add a pic to a forum post in the future this will help.
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/492809-Posting-pictures-on-Forums

the first response works for me, only one correction needed, which is you don't even need to set up an account with Imgur you can just drag a pic into the box and then copy the share link BBCODE option, then use insert image from the tools above when post a forum post, you will need to uncheck the box, but then it will work:cool:
in fact you can just go straight here https://imgur.com/ click on the NEW POST+ box in the top left of the screen, drag the file with your pic into the box your picture should be now on to imgur, on the picture (or just to side of it) you want to post. on the top right side there is a share option to click on for a drop down menu , there will be a bunch of copy options. Use the BBCode option, hit copy, then just paste the link into the section in the box that opens when you click of the insert image icon in the tools, in your forum post here. remember to uncheck the box, that should sort it.

https://imgur.com/a/tlGjrdUhttps://imgur.com/a/2kXap4qhttps://i.imgur.com/0eE2wBt.jpg

If I don't get a response by December 31'st, just before HC server wipe, I am deleting the game and closing my account. Ty for pic posting info

[Fedora1]

If I don't get a response by December 31'st, just before HC server wipe, I am deleting the game and closing my account. Ty for pic posting info

Just FYI, HC server remains up until Jan 6.

[Brutuscass]

https://imgur.com/a/tlGjrdUhttps://imgur.com/a/2kXap4qhttps://i.imgur.com/0eE2wBt.jpg

If I don't get a response by December 31'st, just before HC server wipe, I am deleting the game and closing my account. Ty for pic posting info

I truly hope that it does not come to that, the wipe is in fact not until the 5th of January 23:59 EST maybe even 6th 10:00 EST but I'd get out by midnight on the 5th to be safe, and it is a holiday period so it might worth waiting a little longer, and I am sure that even if it is late they should be able to still sort out your issue with cloak collection on your other toons even after that date.
Sadly Cordovan is on his hols till the 17th is I heard correctly.

[Brutuscass]

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/LoathsomeTartAfghanhound-small.gif

REMEMBER IT IS COMING DOWN ON THE 5th of JANUARY

IF you have anyone left in

get em out
:cool:

https://media.giphy.com/media/w2Ap6nmvdsj2E/200.gif

[Brutuscass]

https://media3.giphy.com/media/ydMNTWYVjSEFi/giphy.gif

[cdbd3rd]

https://i.gifer.com/YVPK.gifhttps://i.gifer.com/YVPK.gifhttps://i.gifer.com/YVPK.gifhttps://i.gifer.com/YVPK.gifhttps://i.gifer.com/YVPK.gifhttps://i.gifer.com/YVPK.gif




https://thumbs.gfycat.com/LoathsomeTartAfghanhound-small.gif





FATALITY.....

[fatherpirate]

Goodbye cruel ...server.

COME BACK SOON !!! :-D
Party like every breath could be your last...because it is :-P

[Cordovan]

FYI we'll leave the Hardcore server open for just a couple more days for any last-second stragglers. The season will be down for good when we bring the worlds down for a planned restart on Wednesday morning.

[Fedora1]

FYI we'll leave the Hardcore server open for just a couple more days for any last-second stragglers. The season will be down for good when we bring the worlds down for a planned restart on Wednesday morning.

Wow you guys have been more than accommodating in giving everyone time to wrap things up on the HC server. Thanks!

[fatherpirate]

FYI we'll leave the Hardcore server open for just a couple more days for any last-second stragglers. The season will be down for good when we bring the worlds down for a planned restart on Wednesday morning.

thxs :-D

[duey]

FYI we'll leave the Hardcore server open for just a couple more days for any last-second stragglers. The season will be down for good when we bring the worlds down for a planned restart on Wednesday morning.


I have sent pics here and to SSG, in fact 3 message to SSG, no response, ofc except for their acknowledging my VIP sub fee pull for Decemeber and January.

I still haven't transferred my chars and they and all their loot can go down screaming on the HC server for all I care. I am deleting my account and toons, they can use the sub fee to toast my departure.

https://i.imgur.com/0gMJr6s.png

Bye