Can you get workable freezes on a pure tiefling scoundrel?

[BigErkyKid]

Hi!

PDKs have a bit of an extreme look, and I wanted to switch it a bit. In particular, I wanted to try a scoundrel Tiefling, mostly for cosmetic reasons. I also wanted to take the warchanter capstone.

However, I am unable to get tactics high enough, even with KTA. Could someone help me with breakdowns on how to get to at least 130DC on the single target freeze attack?

Must be pure bard, tiefling scoundrel, and be a somehow functional build.

Thanks a lot!

[Fivetigers33]

I don't have an exact build, but I can give a few pointers that your current build might be lacking.



3 Fighter Past Lives if you don't have them or are willing to farm them.
Make sure you have Quality Combat Mastery on something (+4 helm or +5 raid boots).
The new Martial Epic Past Life stance is +2 tactics DC per stack.
Make sure you twist in T1 +6 Legendary Tactics from Legendary Dreadnaught.
Take the +2 Tactician Epic Destiny Feat.
+8 Charisma tome if you don't have it. Charisma should be as high as possible.
Completionist Feat if it's an option.
2 Half Elf and 2 Dragonborn Racial Past Lives.
6 Racial AP will essentially get you another +2 Charisma for free from the Scoundrel cores.
Yugo Charisma pots.



I'm guessing you probably already have some of those things, but all together those come out to be a total bonus of +30.

Regarding KTA, I'm assuming your INT is at least 40 when you activate it. It should be in the 50s though with some investment (+30s from gear alone).

Edit: There's also a Runearm with both quality and insightful combat mastery on it. Depending on how gear tetris and AP goes, it could possibly be worth taking 2 levels of Artificer to use the rune arm for your tactics DC. I know you want to go pure bard/warchanter capstone, but the capstone is kinda trash. I know because I have that capstone. I'd only take the 2 arti levels if you really can't fit quality combat mastery into your gear, even then it would only net you a +2 DC over pure bard w/capstone.

[xTethx]

100 cha should be doable. We’ll say 70 int for kta hotswap. That gives 10 base, 10 bard, 45 cha, 15 kta, 24 piston boots, 5 piston boots, 7 newcomer cloak, 3 fighter past lives, 6 tier 1 ld = 125 as a base

Can easily add more with reaper, stat boosts, certain feats etc.

[Fivetigers33]

7 newcomer cloak

I was under the impression that KTA is also an insight bonus and shouldn't stack with that cloak. I don't know for sure though.

[ValariusK]

Getting really high is hard if you can't do a trance off the same stat as your main stat. That's why a 1 fvs splash is so nice.

[BigErkyKid]

Thanks a lot for the answers, guys!

The 70INT swap (I could get it to around 60, but not 70), stacking with the suboptimal cloak (doesn't seem to be stacking?) was a bit much.

In my spreadsheet, I couldn't get that high without taking ancient tactics (big DPS loss over 8% dbs). Plus the capstone is clearly a gimmick, because 2 mins cooldown for 6 seconds duration won't save anyone's arses in most situations. The reason why I insisted is because I wanted to maximize the number of CCs (for fun): arpeggio from scoundrel, then this capstone. That's the max CC a melee bard can aspire too.

I knew that the FVS is uber nice but, after seeing the numbers and your replies, it seems to me that it is a no brainer.

Another question: how do you guys itemize the to hit on a scoundrel? PDK is so nice in that regard.

[BigErkyKid]

To elaborate on this.

I am currently debating whether 1 feat (weapon finesse for DEX to hit) is worth it itemization wise. I am currently leaning towards a FVS splash (2 mins cooldown freeze is just not very useful) with scoundrel. It must be scoundrel though.

CHA main stat, damage and stuns.
DEX/INT/STR secondary stat, to hit, skill points, AC.

If I do FVS, then insight damage and stats is superior to KTA due to it being the main stat. However, it leaves the to hit. STR is the easiest to itemize, possibly (and no further requirements). Something that sucks is that there aren't CHA martial artifacts, and no good sources of 10 insight cha.

These are the options I am considering:

DEX BASED:
Googles: collective sight -- cha/cha
family set (hands, neck, armor)
ring 1: artifact wisdom
ring2: l ruby
clock: fury
belt: FLEX quality dex
bracers: healing + prr bracers
buckler: cane
trinket: slave - quality cha
boots: piston
head: umbral

DEX at: 16+8+25+2+2+2+2+4 - 61
16 base
8 tome
25 item
2 ship
2 excellence
2 completionist
2 profane
4 alchemical

STR BASED
Googles: collective sight -- cha/cha
family set (hands, neck, armor)
ring 1: l ruby - dex
ring2: slavers quality str
clock: fury
belt: FLEX
bracers: artifact STR
buckler: cane
trinket: slave - quality cha
boots: piston
head: umbral

STR at 66 (71 with primal)16+8+26+2+2+2+2+4+4
16 base
8 tome
22+4 item
2 ship
2 excellence
2 completionist
2 profane
4 skaldic
4 alchemical

INT BASED
Googles: collective sight -- cha/cha
family set (hands, neck, armor)
ring 1: l ruby -- int
ring2: slavers quality int
clock: fury
belt: braided cutcort (DEX)
bracers: artifact insight INT
buckler: cane
trinket: slave - quality cha
boots: piston
head: umbral

INT at 67 - 16+8+35+2+2+2+2
16 base
8 tome
21+10+4 item
2 ship
2 excellence
2 completionist
2 profane

Finally, an alternative STR based without piston:

STR BASED
Googles: precision lenses
family set (hands, neck, armor)
ring 1: l ruby
ring2: topaz - cha
clock: fury
belt: FLEX - quality str
bracers: artifact STR
buckler: cane
trinket: slave - quality cha
boots: softsole insight cha
head: umbral

STR at 76 (81 with primal)16+8+36+2+2+2+2+4+4
16 base
8 tome
22+10+4 item
2 ship
2 excellence
2 completionist
2 profane
4 skaldic
4 alchemical

[cru121]

Another question: how do you guys itemize the to hit on a scoundrel? PDK is so nice in that regard.

I itemize to hit by splashing 6 sorcerer EK (and I take T5 there as well). If you don't want to take so many sorc levels, IIRC you need at least 4 because cha to hit requires sorc 4 despite being a tier 3 enhancement (bug, IIRC it was already fixed for wizard).

[BigErkyKid]

I itemize to hit by splashing 6 sorcerer EK (and I take T5 there as well). If you don't want to take so many sorc levels, IIRC you need at least 4 because cha to hit requires sorc 4 despite being a tier 3 enhancement (bug, IIRC it was already fixed for wizard).

Thanks! I think I'll go with STR anyway, I can get it pretty high.

[BoBoDaClown]

However, it leaves the to hit. STR is the easiest to itemize, possibly (and no further requirements).

To hit seemed to improve a little recently with some nice gear in Sharn (can fit most of this):

I like getting dex, reflex and to-hit working together (for stat consolidation).

[BoBoDaClown]

I saw you had a couple of gear layouts, which is always interesting to look at.

I think this is my current one:

Head: Brim: iAccuracy 16. iDeception 8, well rounded
Neck: Family Sigil: Piercing 33, deadly 17, relentless
Trinket: Cannith: Resistance, Armour Piercing, istunning
Cloak: Mantle of Fury 19con, doublestrike 22, dodge 19
Belt: Slavers: Sheltering (MRR) + deception + skill- + qcha
Ring: Celestial Ruby Ring +23 stun, accuracy 33, ghostly, (21 dex)
Ring: Signet of it'Wnarn 22cha, +11 alluring, +41q potency
Gloves: Hammerfist iDoublestrike 11%, Seeker 21, , ideadly 8
Boots; Softsole Ghostly, anthem, perform 22, icharisma 9 -
Bracers: Hallowed castigators Dev 214, Lore 31, ishelt 27
Body: Wild Card Fortification, PRR 54 (+4), HAMP 85, false life 81, imperial globe
Goggles: Collective Sight: icon10, any stat (probably wisdom)

Shield: Moonguard: Guardbreaking, +39MRR



**Note, I haven't looked at latest update yet
/shuffles off to wiki

[BigErkyKid]

I saw you had a couple of gear layouts, which is always interesting to look at.

I think this is my current one:

Head: Brim: iAccuracy 16. iDeception 8, well rounded
Neck: Family Sigil: Piercing 33, deadly 17, relentless
Trinket: Cannith: Resistance, Armour Piercing, istunning
Cloak: Mantle of Fury 19con, doublestrike 22, dodge 19
Belt: Slavers: Sheltering (MRR) + deception + skill- + qcha
Ring: Celestial Ruby Ring +23 stun, accuracy 33, ghostly, (21 dex)
Ring: Signet of it'Wnarn 22cha, +11 alluring, +41q potency
Gloves: Hammerfist iDoublestrike 11%, Seeker 21, , ideadly 8
Boots; Softsole Ghostly, anthem, perform 22, icharisma 9 -
Bracers: Hallowed castigators Dev 214, Lore 31, ishelt 27
Body: Wild Card Fortification, PRR 54 (+4), HAMP 85, false life 81, imperial globe
Goggles: Collective Sight: icon10, any stat (probably wisdom)

Shield: Moonguard: Guardbreaking, +39MRR



**Note, I haven't looked at latest update yet
/shuffles off to wiki

You are DEX to hit with this; what dex are you reaching? Thanks in advance!

[BoBoDaClown]

You are DEX to hit with this; what dex are you reaching? Thanks in advance!


Not sure sorry. Not capped atm. Not that high. The accuracy and deception items an from sharn helped, plus destruction.

You'd get better to-hit from str, but at the cost of itemisation (needing both dex and str).

[xBunny]

A am late to the party, but here is mine 5 cent


I saw you had a couple of gear layouts, which is always interesting to look at.
Bracers: Hallowed castigators Dev 214, Lore 31, ishelt 27
Goggles: Collective Sight: icon10, any stat (probably wisdom)
Shield: Moonguard: Guardbreaking, +39MRR

Moonguard is only 13 qualityMRR, and 26 ins MRR overlaps with ins Sheltering from Braces. Also Collective Sight gives quality MRR based on Religious Feats, which Bards do have, so its overlaps with shield even more. I would consider Epic Swashbuckler (level 28) (https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Swashbuckler_(level_28)) which comes from Crystal Cove(which i don't have, because I never done it). Its is Guardbreaking, +8 ins Dex, +8 Parrying and 20 Double Strike, which frees Cloak item slot.


I itemize to hit by splashing 6 sorcerer EK (and I take T5 there as well). If you don't want to take so many sorc levels, IIRC you need at least 4 because cha to hit requires sorc 4 despite being a tier 3 enhancement (bug, IIRC it was already fixed for wizard).
6 EK looks tasty, especially for handaxe stacking +1 crit multi and super strong AOE, but you loose tier 5 Warchanter freezing cleave, which I suppose ppl are playing cha bard for(never done one, but thinking atm, that is why i am here).

[PrinceOfAsphodel]

Thanks a lot for the answers, guys!



Another question: how do you guys itemize the to hit on a scoundrel? PDK is so nice in that regard.

This has been one of the hardest questions for me throughout my Bard lives, of which I have 8 completed. Strength is the base to-hit stat and the plus is that you won't be useless at the start of the game like you would on an Int, Cha, or even Dex based build. However, Str literally synergizes with nothing for a Swashbuckler, which is why I always avoid it out of personal preference.

PDK used to be the only way to get Cha to hit (outside of Sorc splashes) which is why I only ever played Warchanter lives as Iconic. That build makes deciding the two-hit stat very easy but it limits you to one Iconic class, which isn't great, especially once you have your 3 PDK past lives complete.

Charisma builds now get to use Feydark Illusionist for Charisma to hit which is awesome but it does still have the small problem of needing the Magical Training feat. You can solve this problem by either multiclassing early into a class that gets Magical Training (Cleric and FVS are probably best for Divine Might), or if you don't want to multiclass in that direction, you spend 4 action points in the Spellsinger tree for 3 ranks of Magical Studies. It doesn't feel good to spend a level's worth of action points just to activate the tree which you need to get Cha to hit but it's a necessary evil. The last option is to go old school and avoid Feydark altogether by taking the Weapon Finesse feat. The good news is Cha-based Swashbucklers like to have high Dex anyway, for saves; albeit, it's still lower than Charisma. The bad news is, if you're not splashing Fighter levels, you won't have that many feats to spare since you have a heavy core of SWF, ISWF, GSWF, Shield Mastery, Improved Shield Mastery, Precision, and Improved Critcial, in addition to Force of Personality/Insightful Reflexes, of which I always like to take one (some people don't). You'll still get by but it doesn't feel great taking Improved Shield Mastery in Epics because you couldn't fit it in Heroics...

Weapon Finesse is also clearly the path if you're running a full Dex-based Swashbuckler. I've tried this once. It's alright. Nothing to write home about. I would advise to go Charisma if at all possible, or Intelligence. Speaking of which...

Intelligence was my favorite Swash stat to build around before Feydark came out. It made getting your main stat to hit and damage really simple (Harper tree) and it also let you easily multiclass into rogue every life, which not only made you more useful but also gave you evasion way sooner than a pure Bard. I still think Intelligence based Swashbucklers are a great choice. The downsides are that your Perform skill will be lower and so will your spell DCs and especially Freeze DCs, which I wouldn't really recommend trying unless you're Cha based. The other downside is that you will practically have to be hard carried by friends and hirelings through the first few levels while you wait to get enough action points for Int to hit and damage.

Anyway, yeah. That's practically the information I've gained by playing so much Bard in the last 3 years. Hope this helps.

[PrinceOfAsphodel]

And yeah, you can get workable freezes on almost any race if you have the right gear. Check out Fivetiger's post where he shows off freezes on some of the highest difficulties. https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/520884-R10-Bard