Palemaster immunities?!

[Tarinia]

Hi guys,

it is only me or is it really unclear what kind of immunities a palemaster gets with Lv3 enhacement core undead shroud? Of course I looked in the ddowiki, but for example with diving underwater the wiki is wrong.
Why there is not a whole list like for the warforge race in the featsection? In Lv18 for example deathblock is added (look to wiki)- thats odd, since undead are immune to death effects normally?
Do the PM has all undead immunities- the ddowiki put a link to the following pen&paper immunity section for undead? I will put the following undead immunities from pen&paper here so we can check together,(Like poison, paralysis, negative energy (in fact healing undead), critical hits...)

Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects)---- open
Immunity to poison, --- seems immun, not clear if also magical poisons are included
sleep effects, ---- open
paralysis, --- open
stunning, --- open
disease, and --- seems imune
death effects. --- wiki enhancement say only in Lv18 -- open
Not subject to critical hits, -- 100% fortification
ability drain, --- old PM was not immune- open
or energy drain. --- old PM was immun-- open
Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), as well as to --- old PM was not immun --- open
fatigue and --- open
exhaustion effects. -- open
Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless). Spells like poison or flesh to stone --- open

Pl tell us in this thread your experiences about the immunities.

Thanks
Tarinia

[Xgya]

Hi guys,

it is only me or is it really unclear what kind of immunities a palemaster gets with Lv3 enhacement core undead shroud? Of course I looked in the ddowiki, but for example with diving underwater the wiki is wrong.
Why there is not a whole list like for the warforge race in the featsection? In Lv18 for example deathblock is added (look to wiki)- thats odd, since undead are immune to death effects normally?
Do the PM has all undead immunities- the ddowiki put a link to the following pen&paper immunity section for undead? I will put the following undead immunities from pen&paper here so we can check together,(Like poison, paralysis, negative energy (in fact healing undead), critical hits...)

Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects)---- No immunity to positive morale effects. Everything else, entire immunity.
Immunity to poison, --- Immune all the way through. I *think* I once saw poison damage from a champ, but that might have been another damage category I mixed up.
sleep effects, ---- Immune to everything
paralysis, --- As above.
stunning, --- Entirely immune.
disease, and --- Immune to everything I tested. Including but not limited to that toxic water in Necro 3. I'd like to test Otyughs.
death effects. --- wiki enhancement say only in Lv18 -- At level 18, a Palemaster becomes immune to death effects even while not undead. That's what that enhancement does. Otherwise, they're always immune. Admittedly, I've never tried to run into a Sunburst as a Vampire - that interaction MIGHT work.
Not subject to critical hits, -- 100% fortification
ability drain, --- old PM was not immune- Still not immune.
or energy drain. --- old PM was immun-- Still immune.
Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), as well as to --- old PM was not immun --- Still not immune.
fatigue and --- Immune to everything related to fatigue I've tested. I'd need to check barbarian, skaldic and druidic rage.
exhaustion effects. -- Immune all the way through.
Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless). Spells like poison or flesh to stone --- Flesh to stone should work on undead in pen and paper because it technically works on objects (such as dead creatures), and it totally works on them in DDO. I can't rule out everything else, because I haven't tested every fort-related effect.

Note that some scripted events still work, like the fear paralysis inside the Spinner of Shadows, still work.


My notes in Green

[Tarinia]

My notes in Green

thanks for the replies- it covers nearly everything- a great information for all players:-) But note that the spell "flesh to stone" in pen&paper 3.5 works only on "creatures"- spells that also work on objects are specially noted.
That means you cant transform a mound of flesh to a boulder because its not a creature- that means literally in raw that undead in pen&paper are also immune to the spell "flesh to stone", because the spell needs a fortitude save and isn´t working on objects.

Do you have tested which PM powers are still working in a Beholder antimagic ray? It could be that some immunities are (SU) and are canceled (3.5 raw)? But I hope that is not the case for DDO?
Testing for special spells would mean to go with a wizard to a PVP area and let all kind of spells casting on your PM- but don´t know if the rules are modified in PVP?
Best regards
Tarinia

[cru121]

Hi, I have used the knowledge from this thread to update https://ddowiki.com/page/Undead_type#Traits; thanks.

[Xgya]

thanks for the replies- it covers nearly everything- a great information for all players:-) But note that the spell "flesh to stone" in pen&paper 3.5 works only on "creatures"- spells that also work on objects are specially noted.
That means you cant transform a mound of flesh to a boulder because its not a creature- that means literally in raw that undead in pen&paper are also immune to the spell "flesh to stone", because the spell needs a fortitude save and isn´t working on objects.

Do you have tested which PM powers are still working in a Beholder antimagic ray? It could be that some immunities are (SU) and are canceled (3.5 raw)? But I hope that is not the case for DDO?
Testing for special spells would mean to go with a wizard to a PVP area and let all kind of spells casting on your PM- but don´t know if the rules are modified in PVP?
Best regards
Tarinia

DDO Beholder central eyes are more akin to targeted no-fail AoE Greater Dispel Magic than actual antimagic.
It automatically counterspells any magic coming its way, but doesn't affect items or other permanent or semi-permanent magical effects, like the palemaster shrouds, Eldritch Knight powers and stances, neither does it stop abilities we typically attribute as Supernatural, like a Paladin's Smite Evil.
Most of the passive abilities work just fine, but the spell-like abilities are specifically identified as spell-likes, with an effective Wizard spell level

As for Flesh to Stone, I agree, by RAW, it doesn't work that way. That's why I said 'should'.
Making it affect objects because the target becomes an object as the spell takes hold follows some level of logic.
You can follow the same logic about Vorpal weapons working on Vampires in PnP despite it clearly being a death effect (crafting it even requires Circle of Death to be cast into the weapon) because it specifically affects a head, which vampires still need to function, just like they need to be made out of flesh.

Finally, it also allows Flesh to Stone to cancel out Stone to Flesh, which the RAW version does not. You can eventually turn someone's castle into flesh entirely, and there's nothing to do about it by RAW but replace the walls entirely, or get used to living in it as-is (at least until it rots away).