Heroic vs. Epic

[GoldyGopher]

For quests that have both an Epic and a Heroic variant what is your strategy?

Run them all on Heroic, Run Some on Heroic, Run a few on Heroic, Run them all of Epic?

[Silverleafeon]

I hear it is lonely at the top, don't plan on having a party to group with in Epics unless you are very lucky.

[C-Dog]

All depends what you're after.


If you're after regular XP, then it all depends how many other quests you have at that level range.

If you're after RXP, pro'ly Epic (for more 1st-time RXP).

If you're only after favor, run on Heroic over-level, np.

If you're after named loot, then it depends which named version you're after (assuming both Heroic/Epic (H/E) versions of the item exist).

And, a couple "of course"s...

Of course, if the H/E versions differ in name (as is the case w/ some), then you can do both.

And, of course, if you're aiming to TR/RR and not ER, well... duh. :cool:

[knightindullarmor]

Great question.

A couple of opposing philosophies:

What happens if you die at level 22 with 1600 favor because you skipped 3bc and DA and GH, etc...? You wont get the 1750 reward that you would have if you ran those quests on hedoic.

But... why not do DA EE at level +4 when HE limits you to +1? HE DA at level 19 is going to be much more difficult than EE DA at level 25 which should allow for a full ED sphere worth of enhancements. Same could be said for a lot of content. Also, running in epics gives you more resources to work with. More plat from chest drops and sold gear. More essence from dissolved items. More chances at tomes.

For me, it is a case-by-case basis. 3bc is much easier in heroics in my opinion - no dodging strafing blasts from airships or using the wonky aiming/targeting system of ballistias. But DA is going to be much easier in EE. Gianthold is a wash, I enjoy both heroic and epic and neither is harder for characters at recommended level in my experience.

Another consideration is grouping. A guildmate died today at level 6. One-shotted by a crit. I asked what his fortification % was and he replied 5%. That's from guild buff. Running elite dungeons with no fortification item or enhancements. I doubt we will see folks running hardcore epic with this lack of understanding how to properly build and gear their character. Putting APs into things that give AC, PRR, MRR, increased max dodge, etc... (instead of going max DPS) may well be what allows folks to survive long enough to get to epic content. I am finding oldschool AA/DWS ranger builds (Strimtom's as an example) to do very well in hard core. Newer wisdom/falconry ranger builds lose that ever important sky-high reflex save. Traps and lag seem to be the most often cause of death for folks that make it past level 10. There is only so much you can do about lag, but using a DeX build (or taking insightful reflex feat) goes a long way to mitigating one major source of death.

Folks who dont adapt to this new META which is so different than the old META simply wont be around past level 21 if they can even make it that far. I'm looking forward to grouping in epics.

[GoldyGopher]

AS for some background.

I have done Phairlan Carnaval, 3BC and the level 6 WHite Plume on Heroic Elite, plan on Running VON on HE, but the questions becomes what about the others. I was going to run them all on HE because my first toon is all about favor, but suddenly as I approach level 13 I am starting to worry about XP when I get into Epics. So I am torn as I have left a lot of XP on the table so far.

[Hallstatt]

This is from the release notes for update 42.4.1 (https://www.ddo.com/en/update-4241-release-notes):

Bravery Bonus is now tracked separately across Heroic and Epic difficulties. This means that if you play a dungeon on Heroic Elite, you will be able to acquire the Epic Elite Bravery Bonus if you play that same dungeon again in Epic levels.

[GoldyGopher]

This is from the release notes for update 42.4.1 (https://www.ddo.com/en/update-4241-release-notes):

Bravery Bonus is now tracked separately across Heroic and Epic difficulties. This means that if you play a dungeon on Heroic Elite, you will be able to acquire the Epic Elite Bravery Bonus if you play that same dungeon again in Epic levels.


That's not necessarily the question. The goal on the Hard Core server is 5000 Favor or 20 Reaper Points; in my case 5000 Favor. The goal is to complete that in as little time with minimal risk. For quests that have the same name with an Heroic and a Epic\Legendary variant (example: A Small Problem) you want to run these quest just once if all you are looking for is Favor. There is lots of Easy XP available outside of traditional quests that award favor. On Heroic, where I am, you are simply wasting tons of XP by getting capped and completing content to earn maximum favor while XP capped for the next level plus.

The answer that I am hearing from many people is run it all in Heroic and worry about Epic when you cross that barrier.

[Hallstatt]

I thought you were worried about XP as you get into Epics. I would not worry about it. Plenty of XP for a first-lifer in Epics. You know the usual sources: Quests, Slayers, Explorers, Sagas, etc. Granted that finding a group may be difficult, but the XP is there to be had. Playing it safe (running hard then norm) in Epics might get a bit grindy, but that is the cost for lowering your risk of death.

Since your focus is favor, I agree to run what you can on HE and worry about Epics when/if you get there.

Good luck, and may Death never find you!

[knightindullarmor]

From my viewpoint, getting to 3k favor is hard enough on a first life character with 28 point build, no PLs, one or two +2 tomes (if any). Getting to 1750 favor (dont forget +2 tome that it gives) and lv20 is a big enough goal for a first life. The 6 build points, +2 tome, bigger wallet, better crafting ability, shared bank full of leveling gear, PL feat, etc... that you will have on life 2 makes me feel like getting 1750 and level 20, then TRing and then going for 5k or reaper points is a safer and more attainable goal.

Until now, most of us have never played reaper without PLs, tomes, banks and mules and TR caches full of gear. On Orien, if I couldn't get Stratini's Hand Cannon to drop, buying one for 500k is no biggie. Hardcore is a different story. Since I break down items for crafting, I dont think all the plat I have accumulated combined on hardcore comes close to the cheapest Hand Cannon that I've seen lately on AH for 1/2 million plat.

[Fivetigers33]

In my opinion, most of the quests are vastly easier in heroics than in epics. Combined with the fact that there is a MUCH smaller population in epics, I'd say running everything in Heroic is a no brainer if you care about getting that favor. If you only care about epic xp, it's much safer to run epic normal or hard, or do explorer areas.

Trying to run EE, only 4 levels over, virtually solo, and on first life toons is a recipe for disaster. Your name will most likely pop up in a global announcement.

Though I am curious why you care about getting xp in epics.