Newish player asked an interesting question @ favor/leet/all content

[Captain_Wizbang]

Son of a PnP member asked me over the weekend. (he's ViP w/ most expansion packs) and has played off/on for 4 years.

Question to me from player; "If I have to run leet to get max favor, and I want to obtain max favor for a server and account. AND want to run quests at level.... I will have to blue bar then stop getting XP because there are too many quests".

I explained that he'll have to put up with not getting the XP, and/or go ahead and level up, then at a future date come back and run what you've missed.

he said he tried that 3 years ago and started getting caught up in the TR scene and stopped playing.

He doesn't want to run content after he levels and can blow through it. and he doesn't want to waste the XP.

I could only offer that it's a good thing to have too much content and to run at level and YES waste the XP until all content each level is run.

he *kind of* read the XP changes and that's what spurred the question.

It's actually a good point. What incentive do people have that want to run all content for MAX favor and waste the XP.

I had nothing else to offer him.

he also was miffed when I told him it would near impossible to get max favor, as there quests and raids that people won't run. And that pugs for that content will be nonexistent.

he'll be reading this thread in case SSG or the community have something to offer him.

[HungarianRhapsody]

Son of a PnP member asked me over the weekend. (he's ViP w/ most expansion packs) and has played off/on for 4 years.

Question to me from player; "If I have to run leet to get max favor, and I want to obtain max favor for a server and account. AND want to run quests at level.... I will have to blue bar then stop getting XP because there are too many quests".

I explained that he'll have to put up with not getting the XP, and/or go ahead and level up, then at a future date come back and run what you've missed.

he said he tried that 3 years ago and started getting caught up in the TR scene and stopped playing.

He doesn't want to run content after he levels and can blow through it. and he doesn't want to waste the XP.

I could only offer that it's a good thing to have too much content and to run at level and YES waste the XP until all content each level is run.

he *kind of* read the XP changes and that's what spurred the question.

It's actually a good point. What incentive do people have that want to run all content for MAX favor and waste the XP.

I had nothing else to offer him.

he also was miffed when I told him it would near impossible to get max favor, as there quests and raids that people won't run. And that pugs for that content will be nonexistent.

he'll be reading this thread in case SSG or the community have something to offer him.

If you're running on Reaper (which will make you less likely to just blow through content even if you're a bit "over level"), you'll get RXP even if you're not getting big amounts of regular heroic XP.

[Captain_Wizbang]

If you're running on Reaper (which will make you less likely to just blow through content even if you're a bit "over level"), you'll get RXP even if you're not getting big amounts of regular heroic XP.

He's not into reaper scene. He has 4 toons he runs, all 1st lifers, not geared for reaper.

[SpartanKiller13]

He's not into reaper scene. He has 4 toons he runs, all 1st lifers, not geared for reaper.

So if I understand correctly, he's looking to be able to A) run every quest in DDO on Elite (for Favor) in one life and B) not waste any XP on the way?

Doesn't really fit the DDO model lol. Either you can run part of the favor this life, TR, and run different favor later, or you're going to waste some of it.

He could delay a bunch by skipping optional objectives, avoiding XP bonuses (die, re-enter, kill a few enemies but not lots etc), and running overlevel to eliminate BB bonus? But that's directly sabotaging yourself for literally no purpose other than having later quests still be "beneficial" in terms of XP instead of just favor. He could benefit somewhat by straight zerging and avoiding some stuff (if you finish a quest faster but with less XP, you can do more quests = more favor per XP, while still getting similar XP/minute).

-----

What it sounds like he wants is some sort of favor-farming DDO life option; like where it takes you (say) 4x as much XP to get to every level, but you get 4 Past Lives when you TR (requiring a 4x price heart). That way he could run all the content on Elite, get all the favor in one life, and still benefit from all the XP?

Otherwise I don't get the point of what he's aiming for. Is he after favor for the DDO points? If so, low-hanging fruit > scraping out every last corner. Is he after the 5k tomes? Raiding at cap is IMO faster, and gives +7 tomes instead of +5's. Is he after favor unlocks? Can focus specific patrons per life (unlock VKF this life, Harper that life, etc); stuff like HK or CL favor is per-life, but super easy to farm out T1 (and you get more DDO points farming it every life vs just the once).

-----

Or maybe if he gets a little help gearing etc he could get into the Reaper scene, and then be happier all around? I have first life Reaper-capable toons, but it does take a bit more planning etc. What server is he on? If Cannith, I'd be down to farm out some stuff :)

I guess I just don't understand. It feels like disliking Mysterious Remnants because you can't get a full set of those tomes in one life. You could sit around grinding them out, but why?

[Xgya]

The real question here is WHAT irks him about not earning experience.

This really is a first world problem. If losing out on XP bothers him, he can just pretend he doesn't own certain content! There, problem solved. He can't do that content because he doesn't own it (or it doesn't exist), and he can keep leveling. We could ask devs to release less content, that'd work!
He can also pretend XP doesn't exist, that the game only allows people to level when they've done all the content of their challenge beforehand. I've done this personally to introduce newbies to as much content as I could while we were having fun. We all had an agreement that leveling wasn't an available option until we did (or failed more than thrice) all the content on the list.

I see the TR experience as a way to make existing content see more play.
If that content sees all play every life, there's your incentive - it's a game, and you're playing it exactly the way you want to, running all the quests, getting through all possible challenges.

Let's say XP kept accumulating even after the current cap (note: that could lead to potential abuse in some quests). Then, he'd be left at level 16-17 not being able to earn experience anyways because you have to be epic to earn epic XP.

[Lynnabel]

We could ask devs to release less content, that'd work!

If you want I can step in and start deleting dungeons randomly, it might help move us back to the "you must play everything at level several times on the highest difficulty" paradigm.

[Potatofasf]

If you want I can step in and start deleting dungeons randomly, it might help move us back to the "you must play everything at level several times on the highest difficulty" paradigm.

you say that in sarcastic way, but the Pre-Patches don't addresses the issue. We have 19 pages of feedback on "XP Changes" and not commentaries for the questions pushed by the community!

[ChadB123]

If you want I can step in and start deleting dungeons randomly, it might help move us back to the "you must play everything at level several times on the highest difficulty" paradigm.

Not randomly, please. Let's be precise with your endeavors. For instance, begin with Coal Chamber.

[Xgya]

If you want I can step in and start deleting dungeons randomly, it might help move us back to the "you must play everything at level several times on the highest difficulty" paradigm.

Come on, we all know "randomly" is a myth.
I trust you to pick and choose accordingly ;P

[Lynnabel]

you say that in sarcastic way, but the Pre-Patches don't addresses the issue. We have 19 pages of feedback on "XP Changes" and not commentaries for the questions pushed by the community!

We're definitely reading your feedback. If we have things to say (and we will), it'll be in that thread thread. I am not the person to ask for feedback on this particular change, though, as I hate the players and fun and wish ransack were more punitive in general.


Not randomly, please. Let's be precise with your endeavors. For instance, begin with Coal Chamber.

Coal Chamber is one of my favorite quests in DDO.

My at-level reaper 1 solo speedrun record is 19 minutes and 20 seconds, btw. If you think you can do better, time-wise, please let me know and I'll think of some suitable reward.


Come on, we all know "randomly" is a myth.
I trust you to pick and choose accordingly ;P

I love all of my children - I mean all of the quests - equally :P

[ChadB123]

Coal Chamber is one of my favorite quests in DDO.

My at-level reaper 1 solo speedrun record is 19 minutes and 20 seconds, btw. If you think you can do better, time-wise, please let me know and I'll think of some suitable reward.


Though I shouldn't punish myself in this way, I accept your challenge. I'm TR'ing today, so you can expect a screenshot in a couple of days. I think a suitable reward would be closing the quest for good, but I'm sure we can think of something more proportionate to my glorious achievement.

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

Actually, at heroics if you run everything at max level (Once on your third life) while skipping quests with a legendary version as often as you can without screwing yourself out of a flagging, you can in fact run all those quests up to level 20 on heroic without any real experience waste, however you will occasionally need to bank a level to finish running certain quests of a certain level and the biggest roadblock is going to be the Titan Awakes and Twilight Forge raids. During epic and legendary runs you will actually need to bank experience with extreme frequency and you will need to be satisfied with the experience contributing to your epic destiny trees but not your actual level at some points.

[MJtheKing]

You stated all his toons are first lifers. If he TRs that will increase the xp needed to level and will therefore reduce the wasted xp. Even then some will be "wasted", which isn't really a problem. Would less content be better? Or require more XP to level? I don't think either would make the community happy, it certainly wouldn't make me happy.

Also if he is running every quest on elite, he should be geared well enough to take on low level reaper even being a first lifer.

[C-Dog]

I explained that he'll have to put up with not getting the XP, and/or go ahead and level up, then at a future date come back and run what you've missed.
...
He doesn't want to run content after he levels and can blow through it. and he doesn't want to waste the XP.
To not want to play the game because of that... (not sure what to call it)... b/c of that arbitrary expectation is beyond my ken.

If you like the game, play the game! You can play to level up, you can play for favor, you can play to smell flowers, you can play to complete 100% of the content available, you can play for a wide variety of personal goals and playstyles. The content is broad enough that there are options for leveling, and if you want more favor, you can grab that too. But that same variety of quests means that, yes, you can't do both in perfect timing with each other. The game is not balanced so tightly that favor and xp run in perfect lockstep. (And if it were, THEN there'd be reason for complaint imo!)

It'd be like saying "I won't play the game b/c I can't run all my characters at once", or "...b/c I can't run two quests at once" - no, you can't do two things at once, you can't both do every quest for Favor and at the same time limit yourself to only doing "enough" quests to level. You have to choose one, or the other, or neither, or some balance of both - and that's okay.

Now, I have my OCD moments, and I understand the urge to have everything work out perfectly in a nice, neat little bundle. But you don't ~have~ to run every quest every life, and you don't ~have~ to consider it a "waste" to hit XP cap* and still farm favor, if that's your priority at the time. It's as simple as that, and to insist that, because you can't have both then the game isn't worth playing - well, then a sincere GL finding one that is.


(* it's called "cap" or "xp cap" - the term "blue bar" typically relates to spell points, something else entirely)

Footnote - as a possible solution, I'd suggest trying to find a pattern that gives the player in question "favor goals" (that are not "100% of all available favor"). TR after hitting (almost) exactly 1750 favor, for those +2 Tomes. Or exactly 5,000 favor, for the +5's. Or whatever, or mix and match - lots of individual favor goals within Total Favor. Something, anything to escape the self-created, self-constraining "I MUST do EVERYTHING!" trap that's in the way of enjoying a great game.

o https://ddowiki.com/page/Favor

Again, GL!

[lyrecono]

No

He won't be able to play all the content he owns, let allone on elite.
Older quests might have mechanics that require multiple active players.
Newer quest will be too though on newer player because they are designed for tr's and/or completionist toons.

Getting a party together at all for some content is nigh imposible, getting them together at the right level, the right difficulty (most vets seem to need to play reaper mode. This also assumed this dreamteam wants to help him through the more difficult content (elitists players hidding in channels) and is online in the same timezone.

Some content is simply no longer run, threnal and delera's graveyard have quests that i have never seen on the lfm or come up in the group in nearly a decade.

Then there is the issue of exp/min and exp pots, these things cost money so players will be inclined to stick to whatever levels them the fastest, whatever gives them the best exp/min to justify the exp pot, wich means skipping bad exp/min quests.
The devs mocking about with optional exp and other exp related features won't change that.
Even with these changes i doubt i wil see:
sos (reavers fate), the flagging quests are a pita, people are (often) capped (20) by then, assuming everyone has their gems,
necro1, blown past due to exp pots,
carnaval, tedious, easilly killed npc that auto fails a long quest,
sorrowdusk, low exp, to much running around that wastes the exp pot,
red fens, low exp, easily killed npc, tedious endquest,
restles isles, to much wilderness to run around in (though you can use a flagger) the quest are too long and tedious for good exp/min,
Necro3, everything hinges on a trapper and possibly unacceseble reapers in the maze, oozes are a pita,
Reigh&heart of madness, where npc (bookcases) and players can get instakilled,
Age of rage(that endfight....),
Dual of the under dark (insane endfight again)
House C artificer pack, mediocre exp, outdated loot, too late in the heroic game to mater,

etc lfm's ever again.
When the inquisitor craze blows over, threnal will fall to the wayside again too.

**** poor exp plans can't compensate for terrible content or dead lfm's in your time zones.

And i'm delibately leaving out raids. Even with the threads of fate, these (leg) raids won't fill.

So tell your friend that there is plenty of content he will most likely not see at all, besides a youtube lets play/walkthrough.

Kinda sad since he paid for it.
I doubt he can get a refund though

[Ralmeth]

I have a few suggestions (in no particular order):
1) Make sure to TR (heroic or racial) your favorite character at least twice. This will provide the past life benefits, and also increase the XP required.
2) Study the favor rewards to see what the benefits are from the different patrons. After reaching particular favor reward levels, there isn't as much benefit to continue earning favor from that patron.
3) While in heroics, skip any quest that has an epic version available and save those for when you are in epics. If you hit cap and still have quests to run (which is most likely), do an epic TR and go back and run those. For example, you could run some of the level 18 & 19th level quests while you are level 20. You will still have some heroic quests to fill in, but this should get you somewhat close to 5,000 favor.

[Rull]

Current life I'm running everything in level order and focus on favor first and xp second.
I skip every quest that also has an epic version.
This results in occasionally being level 11 when doing level 8 quests, but then you miss out on streak bonus for one or two quests and drop back to quest level +2. All in all it's pretty close and I don't feel like I'm wasting much XP. I am sometimes having to remind myself to skip optionals that would be worth it for xp/min but give zero favor/min.

It's a really fun life and the favor drops fast (finishing up on +5 tomes).

It definitely feels faster than leveling regularly and at cap returning to the lower level quest I skipped.

I'm not saying he shouldn't complain; just, it works for me.

[Loromir]

If you want I can step in and start deleting dungeons randomly, it might help move us back to the "you must play everything at level several times on the highest difficulty" paradigm.

I suggest you just lower the XP of each Dungeon so you have to run each dungeon to get max favor and enough XP to level up.

[Ryiah]

Coal Chamber is one of my favorite quests in DDO.

It's on my list of enjoyable quests to run too. Which is why I was disappointed in how they handled Epic Shroud. An Epic Coal Chamber, with new challenges implemented in the same way they did for Epic Chains of Flame, could have been a blast.

[HungarianRhapsody]

We're definitely reading your feedback. If we have things to say (and we will), it'll be in that thread thread. I am not the person to ask for feedback on this particular change, though, as I hate the players and fun and wish ransack were more punitive in general.


Could one of the things you have to say please be an explanation of how the numbers for regular XP and RXP will work in quests since there seems to be a lot of confusion about that?

[Potatofasf]

No

He won't be able to play all the content he owns, let allone on elite.
Older quests might have mechanics that require multiple active players.
Newer quest will be too though on newer player because they are designed for tr's and/or completionist toons.

Getting a party together at all for some content is nigh imposible, getting them together at the right level, the right difficulty (most vets seem to need to play reaper mode. This also assumed this dreamteam wants to help him through the more difficult content (elitists players hidding in channels) and is online in the same timezone.

Some content is simply no longer run, threnal and delera's graveyard have quests that i have never seen on the lfm or come up in the group in nearly a decade.

Then there is the issue of exp/min and exp pots, these things cost money so players will be inclined to stick to whatever levels them the fastest, whatever gives them the best exp/min to justify the exp pot, wich means skipping bad exp/min quests.
The devs mocking about with optional exp and other exp related features won't change that.
Even with these changes i doubt i wil see:
sos (reavers fate), the flagging quests are a pita, people are (often) capped (20) by then, assuming everyone has their gems,
necro1, blown past due to exp pots,
carnaval, tedious, easilly killed npc that auto fails a long quest,
sorrowdusk, low exp, to much running around that wastes the exp pot,
red fens, low exp, easily killed npc, tedious endquest,
restles isles, to much wilderness to run around in (though you can use a flagger) the quest are too long and tedious for good exp/min,
Necro3, everything hinges on a trapper and possibly unacceseble reapers in the maze, oozes are a pita,
Reigh&heart of madness, where npc (bookcases) and players can get instakilled,
Age of rage(that endfight....),
Dual of the under dark (insane endfight again)
House C artificer pack, mediocre exp, outdated loot, too late in the heroic game to mater,

etc lfm's ever again.
When the inquisitor craze blows over, threnal will fall to the wayside again too.

**** poor exp plans can't compensate for terrible content or dead lfm's in your time zones.

And i'm delibately leaving out raids. Even with the threads of fate, these (leg) raids won't fill.

So tell your friend that there is plenty of content he will most likely not see at all, besides a youtube lets play/walkthrough.

Kinda sad since he paid for it.
I doubt he can get a refund though

+1 /signed

[Memnir]

I'm happy we've gotten to the point where there may be too much to do in DDO.
There are quite a few quests in the game, in most levels, that after running it once I was glad I didn't have to run it ever again - because I'd already done it too many times for my liking.

I think DDO has it right at the moment - and I'm hoping that the XP Overhaul doesn't tip the cart too much one way or the other. I have that sinking Charlie Brown Kicking the Football feeling, but going to have to wait an see.

[Lonnbeimnech]

I think his expectations are pretty unrealistic/unreasonable. first lifer should be running everything on normal.

[Captain_Wizbang]

I have a few suggestions (in no particular order):
1) Make sure to TR (heroic or racial) your favorite character at least twice. This will provide the past life benefits, and also increase the XP required. .

I told him this a dozen times. I even gave him info on getting the hearts for free to TR.

I ran into a brick wall on this one. Good kid, great gaming skills. Just that he's more stubborn than his father and me. So...

I was hoping to let him see this feedback from you all (thank you people) to show him in writing vs a face 2 face thing (kids).

Lynnabel, Thanks for chiming in BTW. Advance search for CC records. I recall a 14 minute run w/ screenshot to prove it. 3-man. (might be pre-reaper era)

Can you ask the art dept to shave off some of the ledges where the switch-backs are?

[Captain_Wizbang]

No

He won't be able to play all the content he owns, let allone on elite.
Older quests might have mechanics that require multiple active players.
Newer quest will be too though on newer player because they are designed for tr's and/or completionist toons.

Getting a party together at all for some content is nigh imposible, getting them together at the right level, the right difficulty (most vets seem to need to play reaper mode. This also assumed this dreamteam wants to help him through the more difficult content (elitists players hidding in channels) and is online in the same timezone.

Some content is simply no longer run, threnal and delera's graveyard have quests that i have never seen on the lfm or come up in the group in nearly a decade.

Then there is the issue of exp/min and exp pots, these things cost money so players will be inclined to stick to whatever levels them the fastest, whatever gives them the best exp/min to justify the exp pot, wich means skipping bad exp/min quests.
The devs mocking about with optional exp and other exp related features won't change that.
Even with these changes i doubt i wil see:
sos (reavers fate), the flagging quests are a pita, people are (often) capped (20) by then, assuming everyone has their gems,
necro1, blown past due to exp pots,
carnaval, tedious, easilly killed npc that auto fails a long quest,
sorrowdusk, low exp, to much running around that wastes the exp pot,
red fens, low exp, easily killed npc, tedious endquest,
restles isles, to much wilderness to run around in (though you can use a flagger) the quest are too long and tedious for good exp/min,
Necro3, everything hinges on a trapper and possibly unacceseble reapers in the maze, oozes are a pita,
Reigh&heart of madness, where npc (bookcases) and players can get instakilled,
Age of rage(that endfight....),
Dual of the under dark (insane endfight again)
House C artificer pack, mediocre exp, outdated loot, too late in the heroic game to mater,

etc lfm's ever again.
When the inquisitor craze blows over, threnal will fall to the wayside again too.

**** poor exp plans can't compensate for terrible content or dead lfm's in your time zones.

And i'm deliberately leaving out raids. Even with the threads of fate, these (leg) raids won't fill.

So tell your friend that there is plenty of content he will most likely not see at all,


sorry to duplicate the entire post. This is TOO FUNNY. we told him this almost to the letter.

+ 1 Ralmath, Lyrenco, Rull & you. I copied and emailed him your posts.

[Clemeit]

This might be the oddest forum post I've read in a while. I'm not super sure what the problem is, or what exactly he wants to change, but I'll take a few guesses. It sounds to me like someone is irritated that there is too much content. In that case, I couldn't disagree more. I think that a diverse and expansive selection of well thought-out and viable content is a good thing for a game, especially considering this game. Or perhaps the problem is that quests are giving too much XP. I don't necessarily agree with that statement, either. Sure, with XP Tomes and Streaks and Pots lives can go by quickly, but I personally don't think too quickly - not for my taste anyhow. I'm lazy and I despise heroics. Or perhaps the issue is that a quest must be completed on Elite to gain the maximum favor, and that maybe you should only have to complete the quest on any difficulty to gain the favor for it. I don't agree with that. I think elite should provide more favor than hard or normal.


...because there are too many quests
Too many quests? No such thing.


I explained that he'll have to put up with not getting the XP, and/or go ahead and level up, then at a future date come back and run what you've missed.
Sounds like a perfectly logical solution to me. This is what I and many others do.


He doesn't want to run content after he levels and can blow through it. and he doesn't want to waste the XP.
You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either you put in the extra work to max your favor, or you don't. That choice is up to the individual player. Personally I don't care too much about maxing favor; I get to the tiers that give me what I perceive to be the best return for my investment and then move on.


It's actually a good point. What incentive do people have that want to run all content for MAX favor and waste the XP.
So then maybe this uncovers a deeper root to his question: why are favor rewards so lackluster? Perhaps power creep has left us with outdated favor rewards and has thereby destroyed the incentive for maxing out favor. I can sympathize.


he also was miffed when I told him it would near impossible to get max favor, as there quests and raids that people won't run. And that pugs for that content will be nonexistent.
You could 1) post your own groups, 2) find like-minded individuals who are interested in running these older quests, or 3) solo them (I understand that you can't solo everything, but you can solo a lot). For whats left, unfortunately this is an old game and there will always be some content that is left untouched.

[Silverleafeon]

If you want I can step in and start deleting dungeons randomly, it might help move us back to the "you must play everything at level several times on the highest difficulty" paradigm.

LOL...

New raid, players chase down Lynnabel, trying to stop her from deleting DDO out of existence...when the raid ends, all players involved suddenly find themselves on the beaches of korthos, while an evil laughter is heard in the background...



We're definitely reading your feedback. If we have things to say (and we will), it'll be in that thread thread.
Nods happily.


I am not the person to ask for feedback on this particular change, though, as I hate the players and fun and wish ransack were more punitive in general.

LOL, nice satire.
Sounds like an optional for the raid, Saving DDO from Lynnabel!




Coal Chamber is one of my favorite quests in DDO.

My at-level reaper 1 solo speedrun record is 19 minutes and 20 seconds, btw. If you think you can do better, time-wise, please let me know and I'll think of some suitable reward.

Nice.
One learns to love Coal after one realizes its great xp and has done it way too often..




I love all of my children - I mean all of the quests - equally :P

[Yamani]

If you want I can step in and start deleting dungeons randomly, it might help move us back to the "you must play everything at level several times on the highest difficulty" paradigm.

I expect a quote from +Lichabel next time Anniversary Dungeon comes around: "So which dungeon should I delete next?"

[MistaMagic]

Coal Chamber is one of my favorite quests in DDO.

My at-level reaper 1 solo speedrun record is 19 minutes and 20 seconds, btw. If you think you can do better, time-wise, please let me know and I'll think of some suitable reward.



No longer do Vale since Sharn came out otherwise I would have taken up your challange

[MistaMagic]

You say all his toons are 1st lifers so they only need 1.9? mill to cap, of course you can not do all the quests without loosing xp. Get him to TR and then try a second life and after that a 3rd life as probably you may fit it all in if no pots etc

[droid327]

Coal Chamber is one of my favorite quests in DDO.


Platformers...meh...

How about you just delete Vale instead and move all the quest entrances right into Meridia, like Curse the Sky? :D

I swear, running out to Rainbow or Ritual alone is equal to all the collective annoyances in those two quests.

[Traffik]

If you want I can step in and start deleting dungeons randomly, it might help move us back to the "you must play everything at level several times on the highest difficulty" paradigm.

As far as I'm concerned, you can delete The Pit, any quest with a fail objective that end up in a huge waste of time and also Gladewatch Outpost or at least revert it back to what it used to be.

[Silverleafeon]

i expect a quote from +lichabel next time anniversary dungeon comes around: "so which dungeon should i delete next?"

+1 lol

[Dark_Helmet]

I ran into a brick wall on this one. Good kid, great gaming skills. Just that he's more stubborn than his father and me. So...
I was hoping to let him see this feedback from you all (thank you people) to show him in writing vs a face 2 face thing (kids).


Brutally honest, he sounds like the kid who goes to the candy store and complains that he can't eat everything during that visit. If he tries, he gets a stomach ache. Variety should not be something you complain about.

There are all kinds of things he can do:Turn off the bravery bonus, leave and re-enter the dungeon (not on reaper of course), make a role player character that isn't min/maxed and run at higher levels, run multiple characters and pick which dungeons he wants to follow with that character and do other dungeons with another characters.


Sometimes, you play a game to actually have fun. If that is the goal, maxing XP shouldn't matter.

They already have driven the Devs to cater to the power gamers and ignored the casual players (witness their current XP change fiasco that burns time away from actual, fun content). They are so worried that everyone isn't having the exact same experience (theirs?) that they nuke stuff from orbit. I feel like it is less of a game for us and a power trip to make us their puppets.
Dance! Dance the way I want you to or I cut your strings!

[droid327]

They already have driven the Devs to cater to the power gamers and ignored the casual players (witness their current XP change fiasco that burns time away from actual, fun content).

Huh? The xp changes are going to hurt hardcore reaper streakers the most. If you're a casual leveling on elite then it's pretty much no change except you can play quests on hard first now if you want too.

Also going back to the op: if your goal is to max overall favor, then that's your goal and xp is secondary. What motivates you to do quests once you're blue barred is getting the favor. If your goal is just to earn favor, not to hit an overall favor milestone, then just TR at 20 even if you didn't finish everything, then you can start over doing different quests and still earning xp.

[LightBear]

For the OP: its good to have options that way you can pick what suits you best.
In other games favor works either for you or against you.
Eg gain favor with faction y means you'll loose it with faction x.
DDO has chosen not to adopt that system but instead lets you gain favor with each faction you choose to do so and will have you keep at it.

Also, there once was a time you could not get enough favor with all of the factions but where not able to get to "end-level" without rerunning the same quest multiple times.
(When being at level 10 (or was it 12) was considered a thing. ;) )

[Captain_Wizbang]

I chatted again with this young fellow last night.

He fully understands all the ways to minimize XP as stated by you all (thanks).

He is actually making an observation towards DDO's systems. Ready for this?

He suggests to have a toggle for XP.

"YUP, turn it off. Maybe I don't want to earn XP."

[Ballrus]

"...I will have to blue bar then stop getting XP because there are too many quests"...


I chatted again with this young fellow last night.

He fully understands all the ways to minimize XP as stated by you all (thanks).

He is actually making an observation towards DDO's systems. Ready for this?

He suggests to have a toggle for XP.

"YUP, turn it off. Maybe I don't want to earn XP."
Forget the blue bar and play for fun.

[CSQ]

My "Favor Completionist" runs only seem to last until about level 8-9, when I inevitably skip parts of Necro or some other content because I'm already banking experience/can't find groups/way too overlevel. There's simply too much content (not a bad thing). Instead of running for favor completion (i.e. every quest on elite) I would recommend running for capping each patron that you're interested in on that life. It's a lot easier, lets you skip some of the more tedious content, and gives you almost all the rewards except for some DDO points. Alternatively, just settle for running over level. Not only does this make the runs a lot faster, it means that you're not going to suffer as much on content that is... to spare saying poorly balanced, much more difficult in heroic (especially on elite) than it ought to be.

Ultimately, though, Epic is going to probably kill a "Favor Completionist" run unless you have a ton of past lives, so it sounds like your friend is jousting at windmills here. Epic Elite/Reaper is a real challenge to most players without past lives and gear, and it basically requires epic past lives, some good class lives, and a darn good build (which typically comes from experience) to be viable in Legendary Elite/Reaper even with solid gear. You'll also need a solid epic destiny, but that should be easier with the ED pass coming soon. Just remember to get your tokens while you can, RIP Devil Assault.

Also, there is a toggle for experience: Run quests while at the banking cap. Boom, experience toggled off.

[Zenako]

For the OP: its good to have options that way you can pick what suits you best.
In other games favor works either for you or against you.
Eg gain favor with faction y means you'll loose it with faction x.
DDO has chosen not to adopt that system but instead lets you gain favor with each faction you choose to do so and will have you keep at it.

Also, there once was a time you could not get enough favor with all of the factions but where not able to get to "end-level" without rerunning the same quest multiple times.
(When being at level 10 (or was it 12) was considered a thing. ;) )

Lets flashback to the days when the level cap was 10 and then 12 as you mention. Folks would run Tempest Spine to exhaustion. It was an easily accessible raid, that back then was harder to shortman with toons of that day. It could be done with the right builds (evasion was a big thing - still is), but favor was hard to come by and as mentioned. However, the boosts we got from favor were more significant compared to normal gear and abilities. The favor boosts are still about the same type of thing, but at higher levels, just random loot drops or feats, or enhancements or Epicness overwhelms many of them. How many folks even know about/let alone drink those Silver Flame Healing Pots that do large amounts of healing but stun you for a short while anymore? How many characters have to carry around stacks of HEAL scrolls to make their blue bar last longer. I recall back in those days when running my healer I would get $$$ donations for all the Heal and Raise Dead Scrolls that would get used on quests.

The whole favor structure started in almost another game. I find it still a cool objective and I have a couple of level 30's who have been tackling all the quests they did not have on elite to fill in that matrix on the log. I obviously do not care about the EXP (other than how it might help more Epic Destinies I work on).

Everyone has to find their own source of fun in the game. I still enjoy running some of those old quests even now. Trying to recall little features and quirks of a quest you have not run in 5 or 6 years can be interesting. Still love the game with all its quirks and goals and it fills our families gaming jones quite nicely.

[SpartanKiller13]

He suggests to have a toggle for XP.

"YUP, turn it off. Maybe I don't want to earn XP."

How is that different than having your XP bar be maxed while you're level 4 and still running quests? It's exactly the same end result, and requires zero dev time to implement (and introduces no bugs, angry customers, etc).

[Chai]

But thats just it, you can effectively "turn it off" by outleveling the content, then dont take the level. I know this might initially be stated as the "problem."

Theres a bit of semantics between "wasting XP" (I outleveled the content and cant get XP while maxing out favor running at level quests) and "turning it off" (not getting XP in the middle of my level 2 quest train in order to keep getting it at the end of my level 2 quest train) - If I did this Id basically be choosing to "waste" XP at some point in the middle rather than at the end.

I also recommend trying R1. If they can run elite they can run most R1. In some cases its even easier due to getting mana back. The scene might be more full of xp/min folks than elite is, but if you can find the right people to run with, this may make it feel like its not a total waste.

[Memnir]

He suggests to have a toggle for XP.

"YUP, turn it off. Maybe I don't want to earn XP."https://i.imgur.com/kO6ab4E.gif

[Captain_Wizbang]

https://i.imgur.com/kO6ab4E.gif


https://media.giphy.com/media/NlXI9ffKwOgX3nGMUg/giphy.gif

[kmoustakas]

I'd rather we had a new mode where you'd start an iconic at level 1 and need require double xp to level up but you get a class tr, iconic tr and a select racial tr bonus :D

[Hobgoblin]

https://media.giphy.com/media/NlXI9ffKwOgX3nGMUg/giphy.gif


https://i.imgur.com/kO6ab4E.gif

https://i.imgur.com/7YSOrgK.gif?noredirect

[C-Dog]

@ OP - Bottom line, the ultimate goal is to have fun by playing the game. "Fun" is defined by each player, so can be diff for each. The new player in question should consider what is actually "fun" for them - playing this game, or achieving their perfect theoretical balanced-mathematic goals.


I think his expectations are pretty unrealistic/unreasonable. first lifer should be running everything on normal.
Not true. A new player should, perhaps, start on normal until they have a feel for the game and how their new character plays, but it's very easy for a solid first life build to run Elite or, with some decent drop-loot (and no bad luck, ahem), even Reaper 1-2.

[Captain_Wizbang]

@ OP - Bottom line, the ultimate goal is to have fun by playing the game. "Fun" is defined by each player, so can be diff for each. The new player in question should consider what is actually "fun" for them - playing this game, or achieving their perfect theoretical balanced-mathematic goals.


Not true. A new player should, perhaps, start on normal until they have a feel for the game and how their new character plays, but it's very easy for a solid first life build to run Elite or, with some decent drop-loot (and no bad luck, ahem), even Reaper 1-2.


He is the son of one my PnP group members, There 8 teenagers in the sub-group. He's been playing D&D V2, & 5e. He also plays in pathfinder group. He's got massive mmo experience also.
Like most kids nowadays he picked up DDO faster than normal, especially with the D&D background. Leet is a cake walk for him with the drop loot he's gotten, I gave him platt but that's it.

He plays the entire quest. just for fun as you posted.

XP isn't his main concern. Fun and favor are.

His email that just came an hour ago suggested having a level up system based on favor.

It's actually a good concept IMO.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

I'm actually not that much surprised that this question has arisen, because no-one plays for story anymore.

If I had suggested something - a game mechanic, for example - to szupport storiey [story-play], then I would have received SO MANY negative reactions because in the minds of the players I would be BAD because I was trying to undermine their search for more xp.

Nobody plays for story anymore.

And elite difficulty - I'm not surprised that it is called "leet dificulty" these days, because everyone of the younger players wants to be a leet one. That's why so many people play games - most faction-based MMOs - in which they can dominate others.

A co-worker told me he had done a pnP session, with a band of raiders attacking their gruoup. He told me he had shown the group of the dire consequences of killing these raiders : They had been poor people. The look consisted of a wooden toy animal, of something like band aid, of almost no food within the bags of the raiders - they had been raiding for food, not for money !

No-one does that anymore. No-one hows people what consequences killing others in PnP might have. Monsters are omnly there for cannon-fodder - except in Drooam, maybe - and all players want is becoming richers and more leet. It doesn't matter even to the GMs if tghe looted person (or monster) had nothing but a wooden toy in his or her bag.

Blizzard destroyed a LOT with their Action-RPG approach. People consider monsters as loot-givers, nothing more. Games are making people lose their compassion. And thewn people even say "but its only pixels". I doubt that our unconsciousness believes that these are pixels, too.

[erethizon]

In an effort to give people variety there are more quests than needed to level, so there really is not any way to play every quest at level on heroic elite without throwing some experience away.

The closest solution I can offer him would be this:

Play every heroic only quest (i.e. those quests that do not have an epic option) at level on elite or reaper (on reaper this is enough to get you to 20, on heroic elite he might need to sprinkle in a few of the quests that also have an epic alternative).

Then play epic quests at level on elite and, when you get to max experience and have to take a level or throw away experience, go ahead and take your level and stop playing quests of that level (i.e. just move on to the next level). Do this until you hit 30 then ETR and go back and do the quests you missed the first time.

There are enough quests that if you go 1 to 20 once doing the heroic only quests and 20 to 30 twice doing the epic quests you will get just about the perfect amount of experience to finish all the quests while getting these 40 levels.

[erethizon]

No

He won't be able to play all the content he owns, let allone on elite.
Older quests might have mechanics that require multiple active players.
Newer quest will be too though on newer player because they are designed for tr's and/or completionist toons.

Getting a party together at all for some content is nigh imposible, getting them together at the right level, the right difficulty (most vets seem to need to play reaper mode. This also assumed this dreamteam wants to help him through the more difficult content (elitists players hidding in channels) and is online in the same timezone.

Some content is simply no longer run, threnal and delera's graveyard have quests that i have never seen on the lfm or come up in the group in nearly a decade.

Then there is the issue of exp/min and exp pots, these things cost money so players will be inclined to stick to whatever levels them the fastest, whatever gives them the best exp/min to justify the exp pot, wich means skipping bad exp/min quests.
The devs mocking about with optional exp and other exp related features won't change that.
Even with these changes i doubt i wil see:
sos (reavers fate), the flagging quests are a pita, people are (often) capped (20) by then, assuming everyone has their gems,
necro1, blown past due to exp pots,
carnaval, tedious, easilly killed npc that auto fails a long quest,
sorrowdusk, low exp, to much running around that wastes the exp pot,
red fens, low exp, easily killed npc, tedious endquest,
restles isles, to much wilderness to run around in (though you can use a flagger) the quest are too long and tedious for good exp/min,
Necro3, everything hinges on a trapper and possibly unacceseble reapers in the maze, oozes are a pita,
Reigh&heart of madness, where npc (bookcases) and players can get instakilled,
Age of rage(that endfight....),
Dual of the under dark (insane endfight again)
House C artificer pack, mediocre exp, outdated loot, too late in the heroic game to mater,

etc lfm's ever again.
When the inquisitor craze blows over, threnal will fall to the wayside again too.

**** poor exp plans can't compensate for terrible content or dead lfm's in your time zones.

And i'm delibately leaving out raids. Even with the threads of fate, these (leg) raids won't fill.

So tell your friend that there is plenty of content he will most likely not see at all, besides a youtube lets play/walkthrough.

Kinda sad since he paid for it.
I doubt he can get a refund though

That final conclusion (that he won't see plenty of content) is going a bit too far in my opinion. With the exception of the Disciples of Rage pack (which I don't own because it has never been on sale), I play every one of those quests on your list every life and get groups together for pretty much all of them (sometimes I decide to run some of the lower level quests by myself). He may have to take charge and post his own LFM, but he will find help if he does (especially for any of the higher level quests). Reaver's and Cannith always get people to join because people need a lot of experience at higher levels.

Raids are definitely a bit more complicated. Posting unpopular raids at level will probably not work out very well. I've actually seen the Titan raid up (finally) in these last couple of months (though not at level). People do like getting favor (and running raids they haven't run in a long time) so it is relatively easy to post a raid group and just do 5 or 10 old raids in a row. You simply have to accept that there will be level 30's in your party that make the raid easy.

[erethizon]

Current life I'm running everything in level order and focus on favor first and xp second.
I skip every quest that also has an epic version.
This results in occasionally being level 11 when doing level 8 quests, but then you miss out on streak bonus for one or two quests and drop back to quest level +2. All in all it's pretty close and I don't feel like I'm wasting much XP. I am sometimes having to remind myself to skip optionals that would be worth it for xp/min but give zero favor/min.

It's a really fun life and the favor drops fast (finishing up on +5 tomes).

It definitely feels faster than leveling regularly and at cap returning to the lower level quest I skipped.

I'm not saying he shouldn't complain; just, it works for me.

And when you get to the level 13 to 16 range you will catch back up to the level of the quest. There are very few heroic only quests in that range (level 14 has the gianthold raid, which you have to skip because you aren't flagged for it, and I think that is it), so you'll end up moving from level 12 to level 16 quests (Vale is the only level 16 pack if I recall correctly) in just a few hours. Once you start the level 17 quests there are more of them and you start to catch back up in level.

If you include the 3 level 15 Cannith challenges and all the level 20 Cannith challenges those can make up for any experience you might be missing if you truly don't have enough quests (and you might not on elite since I usually run reaper). Then again, he is first life rather than third so he needs half the experience I am used to so he definitely won't need more experience.

[erethizon]

I chatted again with this young fellow last night.

He fully understands all the ways to minimize XP as stated by you all (thanks).

He is actually making an observation towards DDO's systems. Ready for this?

He suggests to have a toggle for XP.

"YUP, turn it off. Maybe I don't want to earn XP."

They already have that toggle. It toggles on when you double cap and toggles off when you take your level. If he doesn't want to earn XP that is already taken care of. That is exactly what is happening to him when he runs a quest while double capped.

[ChadB123]

Coal Chamber is one of my favorite quests in DDO.

My at-level reaper 1 solo speedrun record is 19 minutes and 20 seconds, btw. If you think you can do better, time-wise, please let me know and I'll think of some suitable reward.

It took me two attempts. The first came in under 21 minutes (I fell). The second is the one you see below. Now, for my "suitable reward," I would like you to light Coal Chamber on fire and jettison it out into the sea. Thanks.

https://i.imgur.com/WZdx5HW.png
https://i.imgur.com/69KGynh.png

[jskinner937]

We're definitely reading your feedback. If we have things to say (and we will), it'll be in that thread thread. I am not the person to ask for feedback on this particular change, though, as I hate the players and fun and wish ransack were more punitive in general.



Coal Chamber is one of my favorite quests in DDO.

My at-level reaper 1 solo speedrun record is 19 minutes and 20 seconds, btw. If you think you can do better, time-wise, please let me know and I'll think of some suitable reward.



I love all of my children - I mean all of the quests - equally :P

I can definitely beat that....inquisitor 17R/2A/1Barb for the mad dash win.

[Oghma_Infinium]

to Lagin ,

I understand him so much :
I'm first lifer since few years too , soloing every quest i can with all optionals.
HN at CharLvl +4 , HH at Charlvl +2/+3 , HE at Charlvl +1(even some at +2)


The only difference , i'm F2P and spending much of my bare free time on grinding favor and event's items, in order to buy adventure packs , classes and races.


If he were on server Cannith ; he would/might be my best buddy.

Up to him (and you), if that's the case

[Captain_Wizbang]

If he were on server Cannith ; he would/might be my best buddy.

Up to him (and you), if that's the case


Thank you, he's actually sitting right next to, (tues PnP group @ my house)
He plays mainly Sarlona, but server hops with his buddies. I'll send a PM for character info.

Awesome reply, thank you again

[Oghma_Infinium]

you're welcome;
feel free to send me a PM; whenever ...