About these invulnerable bag of hit points bosses

[krimsonrane]

It's just not very creative. it's like fighting a painted punching bag. On auto attack. I mean what is this secret sauce that makes them immune to everything? Just my opinion, but if they got to use trip, stun, ED moments, etc... or even bluff they would be so much more interesting and less dependant on a quarter million hit points. Just as an aside. That running around all over the place stuff is not the answer.

[Hazelnut]

... but if they got to use trip, stun, ED moments, etc... or even bluff they would be so much more interesting ...

That would be fun. Both in the game and in the forums.

In the game:

Boss bluffs you, you turn around mid attack. Boss gets an attack of opportunity (assuming player do when they buff).

In the forums:

Angry Player: There's a bug. My character keeps turning around in the middle of battle for no reason. Please fix NOW!

Dev: It's WAI.

[krimsonrane]

That would be fun. Both in the game and in the forums.

In the game:

Boss bluffs you, you turn around mid attack. Boss gets an attack of opportunity (assuming player do when they buff).

In the forums:

Angry Player: There's a bug. My character keeps turning around in the middle of battle for no reason. Please fix NOW!

Dev: It's WAI.

https://media0.giphy.com/media/ienTbt9FPOf7q8W0yN/giphy.gif

[AbyssalMage]

It's just not very creative. it's like fighting a painted punching bag. On auto attack.
I'll agree here. More HP's is not the answer.


I mean what is this secret sauce that makes them immune to everything?
I would assume the same things that make players nearly immune to everything. I've always came from the camp that what is good for the players is good for the bad guys. So careful what you ask for.


Just my opinion, but if they got to use trip, stun, ED moments, etc... or even bluff they would be so much more interesting and less dependant on a quarter million hit points. Just as an aside. That running around all over the place stuff is not the answer.
Bosses used to use all of those abilities. They're probably still do but you are immune (see above). Players "Run around" so again....

[cdbd3rd]

That would be fun. Both in the game and in the forums.

In the game:

Boss bluffs you, you turn around mid attack. Boss gets an attack of opportunity (assuming player do when they buff).

In the forums:

Angry Player: There's a bug. My character keeps turning around in the middle of battle for no reason. Please fix NOW!

Dev: It's WAI.

:D

https://media.tenor.com/images/8070d5bf89fe375e273d7f3f1097b79a/tenor.gif

[droid327]

They're acknowledging and addressing exactly this concern in the proposed Reaper changes...

Outside of Reaper (and raiding, but its understandable there), I think the only place that sack-of-meat bosses are a problem is in Legendary Elite quests when you're under-level. But that's more of a problem with the huge power spike you get in L29 gear and bosses being balanced for that.

Its kinda hard to make a boss challenging without giving it a bunch of HP though. There's so many rock-paper-scissors countermoves to anything a boss could do. Or outright immunity, and then people complain when bosses can bypass immunity - see the whole debate about KD immunity and bosses right now.

[Saekee]

It is a problem of quest design which is based on a tunnel of mobs that gets you to boss. Many low level quests do not do this but for some reason almost all (if not ALL) the high level ones do so.

Harbor quests are actually fun since they do not do so; Lordsmarch quests avoid it; Claw of Vulkoor makes it optional; etc. The whole idea of an invincible tough guy leading a bunch of thugs is just a hard image for the devs to shake. What about a physically weak boss who has smarts & charisma leading them? Isn’t that more realistic? So you break in and try to reach the boss by any means; perhaps the Vizier is the real strong enemy, for example, and you might opt for tactical diversion to pull him/her away! Wow nice design!!!

[Lonnbeimnech]

It is a problem of quest design which is based on a tunnel of mobs that gets you to boss. Many low level quests do not do this but for some reason almost all (if not ALL) the high level ones do so.

Harbor quests are actually fun since they do not do so; Lordsmarch quests avoid it; Claw of Vulkoor makes it optional; etc. The whole idea of an invincible tough guy leading a bunch of thugs is just a hard image for the devs to shake. What about a physically weak boss who has smarts & charisma leading them? Isn’t that more realistic? So you break in and try to reach the boss by any means; perhaps the Vizier is the real strong enemy, for example, and you might opt for tactical diversion to pull him/her away! Wow nice design!!!

That's the sharn chain.

[Saekee]

That's the sharn chain.
good to know, haven’t bought it yet

[SpartanKiller13]

It is a problem of quest design which is based on a tunnel of mobs that gets you to boss. Many low level quests do not do this but for some reason almost all (if not ALL) the high level ones do so.

Harbor quests are actually fun since they do not do so; Lordsmarch quests avoid it; Claw of Vulkoor makes it optional; etc. The whole idea of an invincible tough guy leading a bunch of thugs is just a hard image for the devs to shake. What about a physically weak boss who has smarts & charisma leading them? Isn’t that more realistic? So you break in and try to reach the boss by any means; perhaps the Vizier is the real strong enemy, for example, and you might opt for tactical diversion to pull him/her away! Wow nice design!!!

Scavenger Hunt before the boss was scaled properly XD Oneshot city.

I'm pretty down with interesting quest mechanics, at the same time that not every quest has to be super unique :)

But there's a few like Memoirs where the boss is like 30x as tough as anything else around where it's a little off-putting...

[Wipey]

Jade Strike, vulnerability, Dust, Rebuke, tainted aura, Ooze/Suffering, Shattered Device.

Cracking strike, Hunter Mark, Asassin Trick, Sunder, Shattering Strike.

Properly debuffed bosses lasts for 20 or 30 seconds, with very few exceptions.

Are you really doing everything you can to make it faster and easier for you and your party ?

[krimsonrane]

Jade Strike, vulnerability, Dust, Rebuke, tainted aura, Ooze/Suffering, Shattered Device.

Cracking strike, Hunter Mark, Asassin Trick, Sunder, Shattering Strike.

Properly debuffed bosses lasts for 20 or 30 seconds, with very few exceptions.

Are you really doing everything you can to make it faster and easier for you and your party ?

You just named a dozen abilities from as many classes.

[Shadow_Jumper]

You just named a dozen abilities from as many classes.

In an optimal party, that's doubtful.

A rouge could theoretically do Vuln, Suffering, Shattered Device, Assassi Trick all at the same time

A Warlock could do Dust, Taint, Rebuke

Monk would do the Jade

That's basically most of the debuffs right there only requiring 3 players. Also, alot of them (ooze/suffering,vuln, shattered, dust, rebuke) have multiple ways to be applied and aren't class restricted

But that's beside the point. Wipey was pointing out that there's numerous ways to debuff a boss/mob to make it easier to kill regardless of your class. In a reaper party with 4+ DPSers most bosses aren't gonna last longer than a minute.

[TedSandyman]

In an optimal party, that's doubtful.

A rouge could theoretically do Vuln, Suffering, Shattered Device, Assassi Trick all at the same time

A Warlock could do Dust, Taint, Rebuke

Monk would do the Jade

That's basically most of the debuffs right there only requiring 3 players. Also, alot of them (ooze/suffering,vuln, shattered, dust, rebuke) have multiple ways to be applied and aren't class restricted

But that's beside the point. Wipey was pointing out that there's numerous ways to debuff a boss/mob to make it easier to kill regardless of your class. In a reaper party with 4+ DPSers most bosses aren't gonna last longer than a minute.

Not a whole lot a barb or fighter could do. One more example of "If you want to play this game at the higher levels, make sure to pick the right class." Especially if you want to solo things. And while the argument, "It's an mmo, it shouldn't be designed around solo." is perfectly correct, more and more this game is becoming, Reaper Gods vs the rest of us. And the rest of us find, if we want to play, we are forced to do so solo quite often.

When a magic user can kill 5 or 6 things instantly, and a monk can one shot mobs that it takes 20 seconds to whittle down with my battle axes or great axe, and then you apply that to a mob with 200K hp. I have quite literally put on the auto attack and went and got myself a sandwich.

And yeah, if I had more reaper points, I would hit harder, but that is precisely the point. These dungeons are getting designed for the people who have zerged their 5M reaper xp. Those mobs are killer for us lesser beings.

So put up my own LFM. But if I put it up for Elite or Hard, no one will join. If I put it up for R1, I cant play until someone else joins. If I start I will probably die before anyone joins. If someone joins and that person isn't very good, we will get destroyed. If an uber power reaper joins, I can just sit at the entrance and wait for the xp. I get credit, but it isn't fun.

I didn't realize early on what reaper would do to this game. I was dubious at the first. I didn't play reaper for a while. Then, as more and more LFMs were reaper, I started joining and actually had fun with them. Things were challenging and you could die, which kept the adrenaline up.

But now, it's worse than before reaper. As more and more of the people who have the time simply zerg reaper. There is this very, very big divide between those players and the rest of us. And, of course, the dungeons are getting designed for the uber players and us mere mortals are getting left behind.

This has happened in this game for a while. For every player who rage quits because they are bored, I guarantee you there was 10 who silently quit because the game was just too hard. The difference between then and now, is that reaper is catching up to me and a lot of the other casual players who have stuck by this game for years.

We just cant play in an enjoyable way. It is rare that I get in a group of moderate players where we struggle a bit in a dungeon. And having to struggle is what makes any game fun. Following behind a winged reaper as they zap everything from existence isn't fun.

I used to find some solace in soloing. But most dungeons now are very easy, easy, easy parts followed by cripplingly hard end fights that I can't do. I can do slavers on elite (but not reaper), except for that stupid end fight in part 3.

So, what is the solution? Less hard end fights? Less HP on end bosses? I don't think that is possible with the extreme power that some of these classes have. You can't n**f classes because of the uproar, no matter how over powered they are (I censored n**f because its a bad word on the forums.)

I don't really think there is a solution at this point. Make the melees that I play stronger? Add more power creep? I don't think so.

Maybe a reaper solo mode (R0) that you can only play solo that lets you reenter a dungeon. So that I can log on and if I find no good level LFM's I could solo and still get some reaper xp, even if I die, so that one day I can rejoin the reaper zergers in their high castle.

[krimsonrane]

You made a lot of good points. With reaper being amped up and monsters getting as much as a +20 to their DC's it's going to get even worse. if you can't keep up you have to run solo. Like you said. Collecting XP at the entrance isn't fun at all.

[Emerge2012]

Jade Strike, vulnerability, Dust, Rebuke, tainted aura, Ooze/Suffering, Shattered Device.

Cracking strike, Hunter Mark, Asassin Trick, Sunder, Shattering Strike.

Properly debuffed bosses lasts for 20 or 30 seconds, with very few exceptions.

Are you really doing everything you can to make it faster and easier for you and your party ?

You, sir, have won the thread.

And the answer to the question is no.

[JOTMON]

http://i.imgur.com/Bl8NGuC.gif

[Cetus]

http://i.imgur.com/Bl8NGuC.gif

hahaha

[Thrudh]

If I put it up for R1, I cant play until someone else joins. If I start I will probably die before anyone joins.

Twist in Meld into Darkness... 15 seconds of 100% Dodge. Use that if you get in trouble. If you're all alone, you can wait out the 2 minute timer before proceeding to the next fight... Once someone joins, you should be fine.

Of course, that's just for epics. You mentioned barbarian... If you are barb, get Blood Tribute. 150 temp hp is huge in heroic. Spam that every 3 seconds if you get in a tough fight. You will still die sometimes, but not every time.

There ARE things you can do.

[TraversityI0I]

Hi All

I been a solo player for a long time, on occasion I team up with some people I know, but I run a few characters, so I solo. What I discovered is this - Heroic levels are doable for a soloist like me, depending on the level I go in at, but I can do elite on Heroic, though death is something I am aware of.

Epic is different, I tend to only do normal on Epic levels, and even then I find some of the quests ridiculously high like CR31 on Epic Normal !!! so I avoid such quests, shame really, but if the DEVS want to stick that level on to it, then they loose out on one player who will never experience the content, not my lose, it is theirs.

I never do Reaper mode, as far as I am concerned it is for the zergers - the game has enough content to keep me going with what I have running

What is disappointing is the expectation that people have. I like to do a raid - but full well know that if I have not done the raid before, I get left behind by those who zerg it and know it from numerous runs before. Pointless joining such groups.

When I check on the LFM for groups, I discover a lot of reaper modes. Fine that is what the player wants to do, then do it. Other times there are heroic quests on LFM, but it is down to what I am doing and which character I am playing as to whether I wish to join the group or not.

The game has a lot of content - really the choice is down to the player as to what level they wish to play at.

[Shadow_Jumper]

Not a whole lot a barb or fighter could do. One more example of "If you want to play this game at the higher levels, make sure to pick the right class." Especially if you want to solo things. And while the argument, "It's an mmo, it shouldn't be designed around solo." is perfectly correct, more and more this game is becoming, Reaper Gods vs the rest of us. And the rest of us find, if we want to play, we are forced to do so solo quite often.

When a magic user can kill 5 or 6 things instantly, and a monk can one shot mobs that it takes 20 seconds to whittle down with my battle axes or great axe, and then you apply that to a mob with 200K hp. I have quite literally put on the auto attack and went and got myself a sandwich.

From my experience Barbarian is one of the best heroic levelers, and easily the best heroic melee class out there in terms of dps and survivability. Fighter lacks a lot of self healing.

A fighter/barbarian (contrary to you comment claiming they can’t do much of what Wiley described) could do the following;

Both: Dust, Vuln, Shattered Device

Fighter Sunder/Shattering Strike
Barb; Cracking Strike

If we are talking r1 TR train as your comments would suggest, I would heavily recommend you stop following whatever build guide you are using if it’s taking you 20s to beat down trash.




Maybe a reaper solo mode (R0) that you can only play solo that lets you reenter a dungeon. So that I can log on and if I find no good level LFM's I could solo and still get some reaper xp, even if I die, so that one day I can rejoin the reaper zergers in their high castle.

It’s called Normal or Hard. Choose a difficulty that suits your solo life and don’t worry about how others play is my recommendation. I quit the game because, through endless whining about how difficult the game was, everything became solo zerg mode on EE and became boring af.