Advice on Class Split

[Fedora1]

I am going to RTR here in a little bit and looking at some PL's I need to get. This will be my 6th RTR in a row, so I am ready to take this next life into epics before I continue more racials, just as a break from heroics.

I still need another PDK past life, so was going to do a Silvanus Maul build, but realized I already had 3 pally lives, and I don't want to do a cleric or fvs. So I still need a third bard life, which goes pretty well with PDK so that's what I am going to do.

I'd like to know your opinions and reasoning on class splits viable for R1 through epics. I am considering F5/B15 swash or F6/B14 swash (T5 Kensai) but I have also done pure bard swash. Was thinking of making it a CHA build (to help Frozen Fury in addition to the obvious reasons).

Questions:


What's a good split between fighter/bard?
What order (will be taking fighter first for PDK) do you recommend?
Would I be better off with T5 War Chanter (Spinning Ice) over T5 Kensai?


Appreciate any input, thanks!

[droid327]

I'll give a personal endorsement to 12 Bard/6 Fig/2 Rogue PDK shortsword swash/vanguard. A whole lot of synergy in that build. And its fast.

Order isnt that important since you'll have all your essentials by 15 anyway.

I'd definitely say Kensei > WC, especially paired with Swash. Swash is all about crits, and Kensei helps with breaking fort.

[Fedora1]

I'll give a personal endorsement to 12 Bard/6 Fig/2 Rogue PDK shortsword swash/vanguard. A whole lot of synergy in that build. And its fast.

Order isnt that important since you'll have all your essentials by 15 anyway.

I'd definitely say Kensei > WC, especially paired with Swash. Swash is all about crits, and Kensei helps with breaking fort.

Cool, thank you for the input. I was thinking of rogue, but TBH, it tends to just slow me down since I'll try to get all the locks and swap out gear to do traps, etc. I agree on Kensai > WC, so thanks for mentioning the crits.

[C-Dog]

...it tends to just slow me down since I'll try to get all the locks and swap out gear to do traps, etc. ..
30% slower?

It's a playstyle you have to learn/adopt, like ignoring optionals that are slow to complete - get just enough traps for the xp bonus, skip the rest, move on to the next quest asap.

[Fedora1]

30% slower?

It's a playstyle you have to learn/adopt, like ignoring optionals that are slow to complete - get just enough traps for the xp bonus, skip the rest, move on to the next quest asap.

Yeah I'm not the optimal player. Not exactly a flower sniffer, but a little like "if I can kill it I will, if I can unlock I will, if I can disable it I will". Not sure if that is OCD? So better for me just not to have any rogue unless I'm going full rogue.

Everybody knows you never go full rogue..... You went full rogue, man? Never go full rogue.

[Fedora1]

So I went with PDK 10/5 bard/fighter (so far). Jumped into Memoirs on R1 to test it out.

1. He kills stuff really fast.
2. Even with high dodge, displacement, 25% concealment/blur he is squishy and loses health very fast.

Had to keep jumping out of a fight to cast cures, then jump back in. Almost died about 3 times by the time I started the end fight. Cleared the first wave super quick, but then in the second wave all the mini bosses were champs and two reapers showed up (plague and famine) and I died. As you know, there is no corner to hide behind or place to retreat/hide in Memoirs end fight, so there was no point wasting a cake to res when all the mobs were just waiting to stomp on my dead corpse anyway. So I released, healed up and tried to get back in (it still said the quest was active) but could not get back in. It kept acting like it was going to place me inside, but then I'd just zone in the harbor again by the quest entrance.

Kind of a bummer for a first test run. I'd hate to think I have to bring a cleric hire on all my quests just to run R1. :/

EDIT: Part of the problem may be that my past 3 lives have been half orc barbarian with blood strength, which combined with high health tends to make running R1 pretty care free.

[cru121]

1) If anyone leaves a quest on reaper difficulty, the quest is locked. Noone can enter or reenter it.
2) A melee bard heals on r1 are usually not exactly excellent. plus the lack of evasion...
3) Get hires or group up. It's reaper after all.

[Fedora1]

1) If anyone leaves a quest on reaper difficulty, the quest is locked. Noone can enter or reenter it.

Shoot. I knew this.... Thanks! :)

[droid327]

I was thinking of rogue, but TBH, it tends to just slow me down since I'll try to get all the locks and swap out gear to do traps, etc.

Rogue isnt for trapping...


2) A melee bard heals on r1 are usually not exactly excellent. plus the lack of evasion...


Its for Evasion :)

With high Dodge (Swash + Kensei both provide a lot of bonuses to Dodge, Cap, and MDB), Displacement, a decent PRR, and Evasion, you should be able to mitigate most incoming damage. But yeah, you're in Reaper and you shouldnt expect to faceroll, especially just coming off the bench without top-flight gear for your level, especially especially at <20. Its a build with a lot of potential, but it builds slow...you'll need all 80 AP to really get to full speed, and you'll need to work on your PRR (past lives etc.) to really synergize with your avoidance defenses optimally, since Light Armor doesnt provide as much base PRR. No reason to not bring a hire, for the convenience if nothing else.

[Cantor]

I'll give a personal endorsement to 12 Bard/6 Fig/2 Rogue PDK shortsword swash/vanguard. A whole lot of synergy in that build. And its fast.

Order isnt that important since you'll have all your essentials by 15 anyway.

I'd definitely say Kensei > WC, especially paired with Swash. Swash is all about crits, and Kensei helps with breaking fort.

This is the basic way to split a swashbuckler. It's going to be hard to beat.

Order does matter if you don't want to waste feats and skill points, skill points are especially tight when you can't take rog at 1. On a pdk would be: rog at 2 and 15 (or 14 if you like to bank 15 on iconics), take all the fighter levels as soon as you have the BAB to get a useful feat (if you know what you are doing, you can save ftr 6 to get GSWF a little earlier when BAB req is met on a level not div by 3), bard levels stacked at the end for more skill points. 12 feats (7+1human+4ftr): SWF (3), gcleave (3), Prec, ShMast (2), IC, fill in with choice from dodge/mobility/completionist/weapon spec/mastery. You can always ditch trap skills and just maintain doors too, that is a pure time saver.

I'm a fan of cleave/gcleave on this kind of build, but there are variations. I just accept that PA is a lost feat and run prec. Make sure you have guardbreaking. You can go no cleave if you like to fascinate everything and kill one at a time, if you don't mind extremely slow gameplay it's fine.

edit: I see you already did 10/5. You could still take next 2 levels as rog and pick up evasion and open locks. Well worth it. Swashbuckling locks in light armor, it's crazy not to build evasion.

[C-Dog]

...So better for me just not to have any rogue unless I'm going full rogue...
Hey, you know yourself, that's more than most can say.
o7

Rogue isnt for trapping...
...
Its for Evasion :)
That is one solution - and just ignore all Trapping Skills (or all but OL?). Spot, Search - those have value enough. Save the build points from Int any way you slice it.

[EDIT: Yeah, not so much re the following... :rolleyes:]Or, for Evasion that comes with zero temptation to trap and +2 Feats, Monk 2 (for those w/ class).

[Fedora1]

Its for Evasion :)

With high Dodge (Swash + Kensei both provide a lot of bonuses to Dodge, Cap, and MDB), Displacement, a decent PRR, and Evasion, you should be able to mitigate most incoming damage.




This is the basic way to split a swashbuckler. It's going to be hard to beat.



You could still take next 2 levels as rog and pick up evasion and open locks. Well worth it. Swashbuckling locks in light armor, it's crazy not to build evasion.



That is one solution - and just ignore all Trapping Skills (or all but OL?). Spot, Search - those have value enough.

Yeah you guys are right. I'm going to take the next two levels as rogue. Since I couldn't take the first level as rogue, it's not too big of a deal to take them now and not worry about traps. Just build up OL/spot/search.




Or, for Evasion that comes with zero temptation to trap and +2 Feats, Monk 2 (for those w/ class).

At first I was like "Genius!" and then I was like...alignment. :(

[Fedora1]

No reason to not bring a hire, for the convenience if nothing else.

In case I gave the wrong impression in my OP, this toon does have several past lives besides the 6 racial (19 heroic/10 epic/6 iconic), and decent gear, but not raid or best in class. Currently running with black dragonhide armor, main weapon is a razorend and using a buckler of the demonic soldier, along with some L15 CC, blur fingered gloves, greensteel helm, L14 mysterious cloak, and whatnot. My big weakness right now is low reaper points. I kept running elite when everyone else started doing reaper, so I am behind the curve.

I did my second run through Memoirs on elite just for comparison, and well, it was too easy. Pretty much steamrolled.

Then I grabbed a cleric hire, jumped over to Mired in Kobolds, and went in on R1. That was a pretty good balance of challenge. Up until the end fight I just parked the hire and summoned for a couple of heals and SP replenishment maybe twice (I didn't seem to get very many lost souls for that purpose). Against the baby dragon end fight I had her with me, since the kobolds were mostly champs and the shamans were tossing heals at light speed. Once the shamans were gone it was cake.

Waited for mama dragon and that was a good fight. Cleared the skelly archers early, and then went to town on mama. She kept tripping us with her tail, and when she was down to about 20% health my hire died. I was able to finish the job though, and happily looted the chests and made my exit.

I'm still on the fence with this build in reaper, but I think with evasion by L17 and a few more goodies from enhancements it may do all right.

Thanks to everyone for the help!

[droid327]

Or, for Evasion that comes with zero temptation to trap and +2 Feats, Monk 2 (for those w/ class).

Heh yeah try to roll a bard/monk and tell me how effective it is :)

[C-Dog]

Heh yeah try to roll a bard/monk and tell me how effective it is :)
<facepalm> Yeah, well, that's what I get for posting before caffeine in the morning.:rolleyes::o

[Fedora1]

Just an update, after running all the GH L13's on R1 I am happy with this build. I have been bringing a cleric hire for backup, but it seems like more of a convenience than a necessity since I just park it at the start and summon it for the end fight as a "just in case".

[Oliphant]

Sorry if i missed it. What damage stat?

[Fedora1]

Sorry if i missed it. What damage stat?

It was a toss up between CHA and DEX, but I went DEX. If I was going to go more WC, I would have gone CHA.

Also, I have been doing L15 quests on R1 now that I am L16. No real problems/issues solo.

Ran a few at level on R1 in a PUG, it was fast and easy. There were 5 of us. Three of us were experienced players with multiple PLs, one was a new/returning player on her third life, and one was an experienced player running a first lifer "adventurer".

[Oliphant]

Thanks! I need to do a Scoundrel life still and considering something like this. Do you think a big part of the synergy is from the PDK? Is it the attack speed boost mainly?

[Fedora1]

Thanks! I need to do a Scoundrel life still and considering something like this. Do you think a big part of the synergy is from the PDK? Is it the attack speed boost mainly?

I think the only thing I'm really getting from PDK is the CHA bonus to combat feats. If you go full CHA and warchanter the synergy would be there for the frozen ice stuff though.

[Fedora1]

Almost ready to hit L20 and epics. I have all destinies maxed out.

Which one do you all think is a best fit with this build?

To recap: This is a PDK using SWF/swash with a class split of 12/6/2 bard/fighter/rogue.

Went T5 in Kensai, then 21 AP in swash, and about 10 AP each in SD (Stalwart Defender stance) and WC. Only spent 4 in racial. Using DEX for main stat (hit/damage) and buckler/skirmisher.

[Oliphant]

Hard to beat Legendary Dreadnaught MB. For late game reapers, I load it with CON