2019 ED Pass: Divine Sphere

[Steelstar]

Hello! This is an early look at the Epic Destiny Pass currently slated for Update 43. (The second Sharn raid is coming before this, so there's still a bit of time before this reaches Lamannia). A few notes about this pass, before we get to details:

We had a few primary goals in the Epic Destiny pass, compounded by a very slim time-frame of 3 weeks for principal changes.

First and foremost, try to put each Destiny in a place where it's worth using for at least some builds.
Fix bugs and remove things that hinder fun or usability

You'll notice that every Epic Moment that required you to do weird things to charge it up no longer requires that.


Improve the ability for people to play in Destinies that match their Archetype (ranged characters in Shiradi, etc) without significantly hindering the current ability for people to play in Destinies that don't (casters in Shiradi, etc)


Like we said above, the timeframe was slim. We didn't hit everything we would have liked to, and there are still abilities within individual Destinies that still probably aren't worth taking. We're listening for feedback here, but our ability to act on it is similarly time-restricted; we're unlikely to further revamp whole trees or add completely new skills at this time, but we may be able to make number tweaks and fix outstanding bugs.

That said, this is the thread for Divine Sphere Destinies, so let's dive in. Be sure to check out the other Sphere threads when you're done, as well as the topic on new Epic Past Lives coming with these changes.

Unyielding Sentinel
This Destiny was meant to do two things: Keep you alive and help you tank. It's decent at the first and not great at the second. Most of the changes here are meant to help you tank. The two new Actives aren't perfect; we had some bigger plans and ran into tech issues in doing what we wanted. Hoping they'll at least be helpful, and we can tweak numbers until they are.


Commanding Presence's hate doubles to 100/200/300%
Stand Against the Tide's extra hate jumps to 50% per stack (250% at full stacks, was 100%)
Stand Against the Tide's extra hate now applies to missile weapon damage and magic damage as well (was previously melee-only)
Divine Energy Resistance can now be cast directly on allies (instead of only yourself)
Ward Against Evil's light damage scales with 400% of the higher of Melee and Ranged Power
Rank 3 of Ward Against Evil now also grants you immunity to the Mind Control effects of Evil creatures.
You can now use Undying Vanguard while Crowd-Controlled and/or Helpless
Undying Vanguard's Temporary HP now last for 30 seconds.
NEW: T4: Draw them Out: Melee Attack: +3[w]. This attack adds 300 Hate for the user to creatures it hits on top of its normal damage. 6 second cooldown. (1 Rank, 1AP)
NEW: T6: Celestial Mandate: Melee Attack: +5[w]. This attack adds 2000 Hate for the user to creatures it hits on top of its normal damage. 6 second cooldown. (1 Rank, 1AP)


Exalted Angel
This is a good tree, for those who can make use of the skills in it. We analyzed it and didn't see much that we thought merited major change, though we might try to loop back for some bugfixes before release. We did make a change to one skill for game balance reasons.

Reborn in Light no longer charges with Endless Ardor and Righteous Fervor; instead, it is once per Rest (keeps 10min cooldown).


Divine Crusader:
This is also a Pretty Good tree in its current form, but lacks a little scaling and punch. In adding punch, we wanted to give some solid bonuses for Divine characters in here; you can get access to some alternative Favored Weapons, and then really make them shine if you've got a lot of Divine levels. We think Warpriests and War Souls will shine in here, along with Paladins once KOTC gets revamped later this year.


Castigation's damage now works on bosses as listed
Castigation now grants its listed Melee Power
No Regret now grants its listed Melee Power
Strike Down's tooltip now correctly says it deals Light damage
Strike Down's Light damage now scales with 200% Melee Power
Confront Any Foe now adds +3[w]
Confront Any Foe's Light damage now scales with 300% Melee Power
Smite the Wicked's Light damage is now 100 against Evil creatures and 100 against Undead creatures. Evil Undead creatures take both.
Smite the Wicked's Light damage now scales with 200% Melee Power.
Smite the Wicked now destroys Undead and Evil Outsiders under 1500 HP on a Vorpal.
Stand and be Judged now has a DC of 10+Wisdom Modifier+Character Level+Stunning Bonuses (We also made it faster & more reliable to cast a few Updates ago)
Celestial Bombardment now only has 1 rank, that does what the old Rank 3 did.
Celestial Bombardment now costs 20SP.
Celestial Bombardment now takes the Enlarge, Maximize, Empower, Intensify, Embolden, and Quicken Metamagics.
Celestial Bombardment is now significantly quicker to cast.
Moved Celestial Champion one spot left, to the middle of T5, it just feels better there.
Celestial Champion's Doublestrike and Doubleshot are now Sacred-typed.
NEW: T4: The Book of War: (Multiselector): Pick one of the following to gain as a Favored Weapon: Longsword, Longbow, Morningstar, Greatsword (1 Rank, 1AP)
NEW: T6: The Book of War: Wrath of the Divine: While wielding a Favored Weapon in your Main Hand, you gain +1 to Hit and Damage for every 2 Religious Lore Feats you have with all equipped weapons and shields. (1 Rank, 1AP)

[btolson]

Exalted Angel
This is a good tree, for those who can make use of the skills in it. We analyzed it and didn't see much that we thought merited major change, though we might try to loop back for some bugfixes before release. We did make a change to one skill for game balance reasons.

Reborn in Light no longer charges with Endless Ardor and Righteous Fervor; instead, it is once per Rest (keeps 10min cooldown).



While the DC casting side of EA is fine, nuking options could use some help.
-The T1 SLA could use better dice. Also examine the saving throw, if one is really required on this.
-The judgment line is unaffected by spellpower AFAIK and extremely weak in today's game (on top of creature type restrictions and heavy DP cost, making that line a really really bad place to put any points at all).
-Ascendance could use some examination. Temp HP/SP scaling. This being a form change is annoying, and makes it a dead core for a lot of builds. IDK what to do about it right now.
-Overall nuking could be enhanced somewhere in the cores. I don't want to borrow the same 5% crit dam as Draconic is getting, but something could go there somewhere.

[btolson]

Divine Crusader:
This is also a Pretty Good tree in its current form, but lacks a little scaling and punch. In adding punch, we wanted to give some solid bonuses for Divine characters in here; you can get access to some alternative Favored Weapons, and then really make them shine if you've got a lot of Divine levels. We think Warpriests and War Souls will shine in here, along with Paladins once KOTC gets revamped later this year.


Will Crusader Aura now affect more than 1 creature per pulse again? It was never clear if that was a bug or an intentional nerf, but building so much of the tree around an "aura" that only pulses on a single target at a time really hampers its usefulness and the appeal of spending DP to upgrade it.

[janave]

Playing EA a lot both on Favored Soul and Sorcerer, here are some things that bug me:

* The spell points extension enhancement "Endless Faith" T1 is far too expensive, ideally this was detached from the spellpowers, this is a fairly low amount of enhancement for almost half the points sinked into it.
* I have a bad relationship with stack building mechanics, as it is not compatible with a bunch of other popular builds, including my own instant kills. Blood and Radiance: is a road block to get to the good stuff
* Soundburst SLA needs a hard target, while the spell can be tossed anywhere. (Actually it has been so long since i tried, it might be changed since then...)
* Be at Peace is overpriced, too long cooldown, little effect.
* All things that reset Endless Ardor and Righteous Fervor stacks, why?
* Astral Vibrance is mostly redundant and very mana expensive (I have never had a situation where I should have used it instead of other healing abilities/spells)
* If forged character using Ascendance lose energy drain immunity.
* Divine Wrath hard targeted will be lost if the target dies while casting, probably WAI, but not less annoying. The best use i found is kinda silly, i run next to the intended targets, and toss it under myself from a jump :)

Instead of a hard nerf to reborn in light, please consider adding a new T6 that allows to train an ability that lets it slowly recharge. Maybe for some major spell points sacrifice on top.

[Tist]

not loving being told "required you to do weird things to charge it up no longer requires that" actually meaning "nerfed Reborn in Light to be once per rest"

[DaviMOC]

NEW: T4: The Book of War: (Multiselector): Pick one of the following to gain as a Favored Weapon: Longsword, Longbow, Morningstar, Greatsword (1 Rank, 1AP)


Thank you! Thats lovely! Also can you consider rebalancing point price on Divine Crusader and Undying Sentinel? It's always hard to not just fill the first tiers and to lack on points to invest on the last ones.

[Arkbusya]

Nice modifications, but instead of adding enhancements wich add a weapon to your divinity, you should add a deity (other than the 'lord of Blade') who confer two handed weapons as favored weapon (maybe Dol Arrah :) ).

[Jandric]

Celestial Champion's Doublestrike and Doubleshot are now Sacred-typed.
Nice! The current method doesn't stack with gear, which took a lot away from the ability.

[Lynnabel]

Soundburst SLA needs a hard target, while the spell can be tossed anywhere. (Actually it has been so long since i tried, it might be changed since then...)

This should be fixed on live right now. If you find that it's still getting tripped up, please let me know :)

[voxson5]

Hello! This is an early look at the Epic Destiny Pass currently slated for Update 43. (The second Sharn raid is coming before this, so there's still a bit of time before this reaches Lamannia). A few notes about this pass, before we get to details:

We had a few primary goals in the Epic Destiny pass, compounded by a very slim time-frame of 3 weeks for principal changes.

First and foremost, try to put each Destiny in a place where it's worth using for at least some builds.
Fix bugs and remove things that hinder fun or usability

You'll notice that every Epic Moment that required you to do weird things to charge it up no longer requires that.


Improve the ability for people to play in Destinies that match their Archetype (ranged characters in Shiradi, etc) without significantly hindering the current ability for people to play in Destinies that don't (casters in Shiradi, etc)


Like we said above, the timeframe was slim. We didn't hit everything we would have liked to, and there are still abilities within individual Destinies that still probably aren't worth taking. We're listening for feedback here, but our ability to act on it is similarly time-restricted; we're unlikely to further revamp whole trees or add completely new skills at this time, but we may be able to make number tweaks and fix outstanding bugs.

That said, this is the thread for Divine Sphere Destinies, so let's dive in. Be sure to check out the other Sphere threads when you're done, as well as the topic on new Epic Past Lives coming with these changes.

Unyielding Sentinel
This Destiny was meant to do two things: Keep you alive and help you tank. It's decent at the first and not great at the second. Most of the changes here are meant to help you tank. The two new Actives aren't perfect; we had some bigger plans and ran into tech issues in doing what we wanted. Hoping they'll at least be helpful, and we can tweak numbers until they are.


Commanding Presence's hate doubles to 100/200/300%
Stand Against the Tide's extra hate jumps to 50% per stack (250% at full stacks, was 100%)
Stand Against the Tide's extra hate now applies to missile weapon damage and magic damage as well (was previously melee-only)
Divine Energy Resistance can now be cast directly on allies (instead of only yourself)
Ward Against Evil's light damage scales with 400% of the higher of Melee and Ranged Power
Rank 3 of Ward Against Evil now also grants you immunity to the Mind Control effects of Evil creatures.
You can now use Undying Vanguard while Crowd-Controlled and/or Helpless
Undying Vanguard's Temporary HP now last for 30 seconds.
NEW: T4: Draw them Out: Melee Attack: +3[w]. This attack adds 300 Hate for the user to creatures it hits on top of its normal damage. 6 second cooldown. (1 Rank, 1AP)
NEW: T6: Celestial Mandate: Melee Attack: +5[w]. This attack adds 2000 Hate for the user to creatures it hits on top of its normal damage. 6 second cooldown. (1 Rank, 1AP)


Exalted Angel
This is a good tree, for those who can make use of the skills in it. We analyzed it and didn't see much that we thought merited major change, though we might try to loop back for some bugfixes before release. We did make a change to one skill for game balance reasons.

Reborn in Light no longer charges with Endless Ardor and Righteous Fervor; instead, it is once per Rest (keeps 10min cooldown).


Divine Crusader:
This is also a Pretty Good tree in its current form, but lacks a little scaling and punch. In adding punch, we wanted to give some solid bonuses for Divine characters in here; you can get access to some alternative Favored Weapons, and then really make them shine if you've got a lot of Divine levels. We think Warpriests and War Souls will shine in here, along with Paladins once KOTC gets revamped later this year.


Castigation's damage now works on bosses as listed
Castigation now grants its listed Melee Power
No Regret now grants its listed Melee Power
Strike Down's tooltip now correctly says it deals Light damage
Strike Down's Light damage now scales with 200% Melee Power
Confront Any Foe now adds +3[w]
Confront Any Foe's Light damage now scales with 300% Melee Power
Smite the Wicked's Light damage is now 100 against Evil creatures and 100 against Undead creatures. Evil Undead creatures take both.
Smite the Wicked's Light damage now scales with 200% Melee Power.
Smite the Wicked now destroys Undead and Evil Outsiders under 1500 HP on a Vorpal.
Stand and be Judged now has a DC of 10+Wisdom Modifier+Character Level+Stunning Bonuses (We also made it faster & more reliable to cast a few Updates ago)
Celestial Bombardment now only has 1 rank, that does what the old Rank 3 did.
Celestial Bombardment now costs 20SP.
Celestial Bombardment now takes the Enlarge, Maximize, Empower, Intensify, Embolden, and Quicken Metamagics.
Celestial Bombardment is now significantly quicker to cast.
Moved Celestial Champion one spot left, to the middle of T5, it just feels better there.
Celestial Champion's Doublestrike and Doubleshot are now Sacred-typed.
NEW: T4: The Book of War: (Multiselector): Pick one of the following to gain as a Favored Weapon: Longsword, Longbow, Morningstar, Greatsword (1 Rank, 1AP)
NEW: T6: The Book of War: Wrath of the Divine: While wielding a Favored Weapon in your Main Hand, you gain +1 to Hit and Damage for every 2 Religious Lore Feats you have with all equipped weapons and shields. (1 Rank, 1AP)



Crusader looks very nice

But have you fixed WF Warsoul crit mods (T5 & core5) breaking if you unequip the deity weapon for any reason (including swapping to the same weapon type)?

[droid327]

This should be fixed on live right now. If you find that it's still getting tripped up, please let me know :)

Can you adjust the DC on Sounburst SLA to benefit from Evoc bonuses? IIRC that's the main thing that made the SLA pretty much junk in Epic levels when you'd actually be using it.

[droid327]

NEW: T4: The Book of War: (Multiselector): Pick one of the following to gain as a Favored Weapon: Longsword, Longbow, Morningstar, Greatsword (1 Rank, 1AP)


No Piercing option? If you take IC:P (ie, a Vol Dagger Warpriest) then you'd have to Fred your IC feat to really be able to switch to one of these favored weapon...that seems like more commitment than an ED should require. Rapier perhaps? Some synergies there with Swashbuckler of course.

Also, maybe fold in some Favored Weapons utility in the ED as well, especially since anyone in DC can gain a favored weapon now? Right now the entire FW mechanic is largely pointless. Aside from letting FvS use CHA or WIS as their combat stat, it...has a couple trivial attacks in Warpriest and some boilerplate +1 bonuses. That's not really encouraging me to use my favored weapon over general-meta weapons. If DC gave you some meaningful bonuses or abilities tied to Favored Weapons, it'd be a lot more attractive to builds that have favored weapons that might be getting ignored.

[Mindos]

not loving being told "required you to do weird things to charge it up no longer requires that" actually meaning "nerfed Reborn in Light to be once per rest"

Should Reborn be twice per rest? Three times per rest?

[HungarianRhapsody]

No Piercing option? If you take IC:P (ie, a Vol Dagger Warpriest) then you'd have to Fred your IC feat to really be able to switch to one of these favored weapon...that seems like more commitment than an ED should require. Rapier perhaps? Some synergies there with Swashbuckler of course.

Also, maybe fold in some Favored Weapons utility in the ED as well, especially since anyone in DC can gain a favored weapon now? Right now the entire FW mechanic is largely pointless. Aside from letting FvS use CHA or WIS as their combat stat, it...has a couple trivial attacks in Warpriest and some boilerplate +1 bonuses. That's not really encouraging me to use my favored weapon over general-meta weapons. If DC gave you some meaningful bonuses or abilities tied to Favored Weapons, it'd be a lot more attractive to builds that have favored weapons that might be getting ignored.

If you're a Dagger Vol priest, then you're probably heavily invested in the dagger tree and wouldn't want any of those other weapons.

[Pilgrim1]

I have 3 general issues that I think would change epic destinies for the better:

(1) expand the +1 stat bonuses to all 6 stats.
This enables toon that the destines are not build for to still use that destiny to some effect. It will make leveling off destinies slightly less painful. In addition it increases the different character builds available to take advantage of a destiny like this. Since destinies are designed to be used by many different builds this will only increase the diversity available.

(2) reduce the cost of +1 stats bonuses to 1 AP.
When Epic destinies where reduces most stats maxed out at ~60-70. Today the max is well over 130 for some stats. Thus the value of increasing stats has reduced, with the exception of characters who are defined by abilities on the d20 scale (like DC's). In addition since you are re-vamping and improving the existing destinies this will increase the number of action points stat hungry characters have to spend into the new toys and make for a more enjoyable experience.

(3) Add in base-line amounts of melee and ranged power to all destinies.
Being a physical damage toon in a destiny that has no melee or ranged power is really a painful process. Allowing at least some melee/ranged power into off destinies will make the leveling experience more enjoyable and might lead to interesting build options.

I will give destiny specific feedback in later posts.

[Pilgrim1]

Unyielding sentinel:
I approve of the increase in threat tanking. The new activated abilities seam effective without me testing them.

I would try to combine the 3 stances in the core into one stance and then allow people to improve on aspects of the stance by picking which additional abilities to purchases. As it is now people tend to focus on one stance and ignore the rest.

Exalted angel
All the abilities in EA destiny suffer from a lack of DC scaling. For example a casted soundburst from a cleric can be as much as 30 DC points above what the current soundburst DC is in exalted angel. These abilities that have a DC need to also include evocation DC.

Divine wrath, judgment, lay to rest, and Avenging light do piddly amounts of damage. All of these damage abilities need to be brought up to scale with todays numbers.

Divine Crusader
The entire concentrate line incorporates spell power but not spell crit chance, i would include that, especially the damaging portion of it.
The smites and celestial bombardment need to have there damage potential increased. Even with the incorporation of allowing the meta's and melee power to effect them. A delayed blast fireball will do more damage then celestial bombardment.

In addition i think this tree need a fair bit more melee and ranged power to it. That way it might have a chance to lure some of the toons away from LD.

[JOTMON]

Exalted Angel
This is a good tree, for those who can make use of the skills in it. We analyzed it and didn't see much that we thought merited major change, though we might try to loop back for some bugfixes before release. We did make a change to one skill for game balance reasons.

Reborn in Light no longer charges with Endless Ardor and Righteous Fervor; instead, it is once per Rest (keeps 10min cooldown).




Would prefer to see Reborn in Light left alone.
why screw with it.. its a T6 and already has its limitations.. cant use while on resurrection timer or you lose the charge and don't get the rez.
and why a 10 min cooldown you are already neutering it to only be usable 1x/shrine.
Will there be a AP cost reduction, remove the forced pre-requisite, or lower it in the tree?



The whole left side of EA tree is weaksauce and pointless to spend points into.

Judgment: Active Ability: (Cooldown 15 seconds, 10sp) Target undead or evil outsider will explode when killed, dealing 10d100 light damage to other undead or evil outsiders near them. This ability does not affect players.
~Yawn, useless...

Lay to Rest: Active Ability: (Cooldown 15 seconds, 10sp) Target undead or evil outsider under the effect of Judgement takes 10d100 light damage.
~worthless. could use a fix to be made.. not worthless.

Be at Peace: Active Ability: (Cooldown 2 mins, 10sp) Target enemy is dazed for 1 minute, no save. Damage breaks this effect. Endless Ardor and Righteous Fervor stacks are reset to zero.
~Based on stacks of ardor/fervor (stacks dont stack properly)making this worthless.

Shadows Upon You: Active Ability: (Cooldown 20 seconds, 20sp) Target foe becomes cursed with Shadows Upon You, reducing all saving throws by -2 for 20 seconds. Whenever this foe is damaged by spells or attacks, saving throws are reduced by an additional -1 for 5 seconds. Stacks up to 10 times.
~stacking is useless, it has a 20 second cooldown with a 20 second duration... .making this worthless

Excoriate: Passive Bonus: When your Righteous Fervor stack is >=5, your light spells and smites have a 3% chance to stun opponents for 6 seconds
~have to build stacks(stacks dont stack properly) for a sucky 3% chance.. pft.. nope..skip..


Sun Bolt: Active Ability: (Cooldown 12 seconds, 12sp) Casts Sun Bolt as a Spell-Like Ability (benefits from metamagic feats at no additional cost). Reflex save (DC 10 + character level + charisma or wisdom mod) for half damage. A powerful bolt of light deals 5 to 8 light damage per caster level (up to a max of 75 to 120 damage at caster level 15) to targets in its path. A successful Reflex save reduces the damage by half. D&D Dice: Deals 1d4+4 light damage per caster level (max 15d4+60).
~for T6 its weaksauce. its the same thing as the Core3 Divine Disciple ..aka level 6.... Needs a serious upgrade.. should be comparable to Divine Wrath..
Should have been.. Sunburst not sunbolt.


~

[peng]

I mostly like the changes, but...

Sentinel:

Renewal is a t3. I don't think it needs to be self-only as a twist when we have cocoon at t1
Renewal doesn't stack with and overwrites sustaining song. I'm pretty sure there are other hp regen effects that they also don't stack with
Renewal has a long delay before it actually starts healing
Undying vanguard should be usable more than once per rest.


Exalted:

DCs don't scale well
Change angelic presence core to boost wis in addition to cha
Endless faith should not cost 9 ap. As I've said elsewhere, get rid of expensive pre-req chains
Getting rid of weird charge up mechanics, but keeping it for rebuke foe, excoriate, and be at peace?
Some spells/slas incorrectly clearing or not building stacks of blood and radiance
If you're changing reborn in light to be once per rest, then why do you need a long cooldown?

[Strambotica]

Exalted Angel
This is a good tree, for those who can make use of the skills in it. We analyzed it and didn't see much that we thought merited major change, though we might try to loop back for some bugfixes before release. We did make a change to one skill for game balance reasons.

Reborn in Light no longer charges with Endless Ardor and Righteous Fervor; instead, it is once per Rest (keeps 10min cooldown).



Plz DONT. if you want a 1 per rest thing... we have jibbers.

This is a spell for EA... is 100% preferable to charge it!! or if you just want to put a SP cost on it. but NO 1 per rest. At least 10 per rest?

- You're killing the way of play of many solo players. (that if he die... still can reborn and the recharge... and great way to keep like this).
- Dificult some nasty raids. But if is all death, we need Reborn/jibbers etc. BUT... the first thing that the reborn one have to do is recharge! 1 per Rest is useless. (idc the timer to want to put it... 5 - 10 20 min... still prefer the charges! or 25 per rest!)
- High Reaper Quest. no need to put arguments for this here.

And... actually i remember 1 time... where i had to use it more that 10 times... (between shrines).
So... this is the worst change ever!

OK. IF after all this you still changing this... (wich is very lame... because you only want to sell more cakes)... what is the point of the timer? if is 1 per rest?.
Should be an hability for the healer to do this... isnt a restricted thing like jibbers.
Or you selling us... a new cake that can we use on Raids?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Divine Crusader: Still isnt atractive to use it with my Clerics at all, ill stay in EA for the DC.
- Maybe adding positive and light spell power to Tier 2 Flames of Purity.
- Something that give DC to Evocation somewhere... OR! that the DC depends on your Domain
- Some insta Turn Undead instead of a DC check? or temporary extra DC?
- Or the base Consecration start with heal and fire.


PD: sorry for bad english... and for many edits :P

[Gemini-Dragon357]

Divine Crusader
"NEW: T4: The Book of War: (Multiselector): Pick one of the following to gain as a Favored Weapon: Longsword, Longbow, Morningstar, Greatsword (1 Rank, 1AP)"

This is a great idea expanding the favored weapon options for war souls/priests. But the selection is really limited. It's annoying to have certain weapons being locked into iconic/non-iconic races. Adding those 4 weapons helps just slightly. Why not have a mutliselector that grants a group of similar weapons.

Like something similar to this:
(Multiselector): Pick one of the following:
You now count Long Swords, Bastard Swords, and Great Swords as Favored Weapons, regardless of your Deity.
You now count Hand Axes, Battles Axes and Great Axes as Favored Weapons, regardless of your Deity.
You now count Light Picks, Heavy Picks, and Dwarven Axes as Favored Weapons, regardless of your Deity.
You now count Clubs, Morningstars, and Great Clubs as Favored Weapons, regardless of your Deity.
You now count Light Hammers, War Hammers and Mauls as Favored Weapons, regardless of your Deity.
You now count Short Swords, Rapiers and Daggers as Favored Weapons, regardless of your Deity.

Also, since this a tree for a special kind of spell power casting and melee build, adding a new enhancement that makes our deities favored weapon a Spellcasting Implement, or something similar, would be a nice touch. Maybe an option to choose between a spell power or a tactics DC bonus while holding a favored weapon.

[thunir]

Endless Faith

10% SP pool increase. I don't think it is particularly fair to any Divine that actually wants this, its a 9AP commitment while any other Bluebar its a tier 1 twist which to me is a relativity small investment.

A tier 1 twist, vs more than a third of my AP pool. It doesn't seem fair/ balanced.

Why is there a prereq for healing power and radiant power?

[lain5246]

NEW: T4: The Book of War: (Multiselector): Pick one of the following to gain as a Favored Weapon: Longsword, Longbow, Morningstar, Greatsword (1 Rank, 1AP)
ok I see what you are trying to do, I only ask what about bastard swords as atm they are exclusive to forgotten relm deity but are a favorite of s&b also why long bow and not short bow instead, offering something different to the table. looks good over all and I like the overall proposed changes. keep up the good work.

[Anuulified]

Unyielding Sentinel + 3 - 5 AC, PRR and MRR per core?

[Ulfo]

Instead of a hard nerf to reborn in light

I don't see any nerf, seems as pure buff for me.


Should Reborn be twice per rest? Three times per rest?

Just one already better than current state, but, of course, more - better! 8)


Plz DONT. if you want a 1 per rest thing... we have jibbers.

YOU have. I don't, and for me it's good change.

See, currently i need charge ability. It's mana costly ( not great, but... ) and simple if you have many peoples to target with Mass Med Cure, but not so simple if you solo. Worst part, after charge is gained but you don't die - you must not use shrine to save your charge or repeat all charge process again after rest! Why this unnecessary complicates, if we just can have one free resurrect per rest?! 8)

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

Divine Crusader:
This is also a Pretty Good tree in its current form, but lacks a little scaling and punch. In adding punch, we wanted to give some solid bonuses for Divine characters in here; you can get access to some alternative Favored Weapons, and then really make them shine if you've got a lot of Divine levels. We think Warpriests and War Souls will shine in here, along with Paladins once KOTC gets revamped later this year.


Castigation's damage now works on bosses as listed
Castigation now grants its listed Melee Power
No Regret now grants its listed Melee Power
Strike Down's tooltip now correctly says it deals Light damage
Strike Down's Light damage now scales with 200% Melee Power
Confront Any Foe now adds +3[w]
Confront Any Foe's Light damage now scales with 300% Melee Power
Smite the Wicked's Light damage is now 100 against Evil creatures and 100 against Undead creatures. Evil Undead creatures take both.
Smite the Wicked's Light damage now scales with 200% Melee Power.
Smite the Wicked now destroys Undead and Evil Outsiders under 1500 HP on a Vorpal.
Stand and be Judged now has a DC of 10+Wisdom Modifier+Character Level+Stunning Bonuses (We also made it faster & more reliable to cast a few Updates ago)
Celestial Bombardment now only has 1 rank, that does what the old Rank 3 did.
Celestial Bombardment now costs 20SP.
Celestial Bombardment now takes the Enlarge, Maximize, Empower, Intensify, Embolden, and Quicken Metamagics.
Celestial Bombardment is now significantly quicker to cast.
Moved Celestial Champion one spot left, to the middle of T5, it just feels better there.
Celestial Champion's Doublestrike and Doubleshot are now Sacred-typed.
NEW: T4: The Book of War: (Multiselector): Pick one of the following to gain as a Favored Weapon: Longsword, Longbow, Morningstar, Greatsword (1 Rank, 1AP)
NEW: T6: The Book of War: Wrath of the Divine: While wielding a Favored Weapon in your Main Hand, you gain +1 to Hit and Damage for every 2 Religious Lore Feats you have with all equipped weapons and shields. (1 Rank, 1AP)


Grant religious lore feats to non divine players while in Divine Crusader, don't pile them on too heavily though!


It kind of makes sense to do this, I mean how would someone be a divine crusader if they had absolutely no religious lore Knowledge to begin with?


Plus, then the new goggles would be even more useful in builds!

Yes, these goggles!

https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legendary_Collective_Sight

Further more, please

Please add Bastard Swords to the favored weapons options......... Bastard swords are falling further and further from the love they deserve being an iconic knight's weapon IRL and all.

One more thing, please allow warforged to be equally healed by the consecration effect!

[HungarianRhapsody]

I don't see any nerf, seems as pure buff for me.


Bring yourself back from the dead as many times as you need (old)
Bring yourself back from the dead once per rest (new)

And you think that's a "pure buff"?

Seriously?

[IBCrabin]

Is Hate tanking going to be address in a different patch?

Currently, there are way more benefits to shield block intim turtle tanking than hate tanking.

Shield blocks provide 60% (large shield) elemental absorption with the PLs.
Shield block makes the tank immune to most special attack.
Shield block reduce incoming physical damage

Increasing the hate threat in US will help with people playing hate tanks, but this doesn't solve the problem intimidate turtle tank is far more survivable than hate tanking.

The change to hate generation will not change how people play a tank.

There should be some kind of hp% boost when not using a shield. Maybe some type of immunity to special attack when not using a shield. Perhaps % of damage reduction when not using a shield in US.

The tree can use some kind of attack bonus to the cores. Even if someone is playing a hate tank, they are not going to do much when they graze.

Renewal should be adjusted so there isn't a 2 to 3 second window at the initial cast that does nothing.

Each ED should have 3 different ability to choose from - like Divine Crusader.

[droid327]

If you're a Dagger Vol priest, then you're probably heavily invested in the dagger tree and wouldn't want any of those other weapons.

I could see someone wanting to swap to, say, Oathblade in Epic, take KT. But then I guess that has Keen anyway so the IC is irrelevant :)

Maybe a Drow FvS with Vulkoor and Shortswords. Meh, who knows. Cant just design the trees for the meta though, right?

[lzc3025896]

I have 3 general issues that I think would change epic destinies for the better:

(1) expand the +1 stat bonuses to all 6 stats.
This enables toon that the destines are not build for to still use that destiny to some effect. It will make leveling off destinies slightly less painful. In addition it increases the different character builds available to take advantage of a destiny like this. Since destinies are designed to be used by many different builds this will only increase the diversity available.

(2) reduce the cost of +1 stats bonuses to 1 AP.
When Epic destinies where reduces most stats maxed out at ~60-70. Today the max is well over 130 for some stats. Thus the value of increasing stats has reduced, with the exception of characters who are defined by abilities on the d20 scale (like DC's). In addition since you are re-vamping and improving the existing destinies this will increase the number of action points stat hungry characters have to spend into the new toys and make for a more enjoyable experience.

(3) Add in base-line amounts of melee and ranged power to all destinies.
Being a physical damage toon in a destiny that has no melee or ranged power is really a painful process. Allowing at least some melee/ranged power into off destinies will make the leveling experience more enjoyable and might lead to interesting build options.

I will give destiny specific feedback in later posts.

I totally agree with the first advisement
When it comes to epic destiny ,it's meant to be universal for all builds.
I choose freely from epic feat stat without restriction.
I even get all skill +1 at epic lv no matter the class
Why should I be restricted from the destiny I'm using..
It's pretty high cost already at 2ap each ,which dumps half of 24ap.
So make it more flexible.

[Carpone]

Celestial Champion's Doublestrike and Doubleshot are now Sacred-typed.

Please revert, as typing it as Sacred makes Zeal -- a Paladin signature spell -- worthless.

[Carpone]

Can you adjust the DC on Sounburst SLA to benefit from Evoc bonuses? IIRC that's the main thing that made the SLA pretty much junk in Epic levels when you'd actually be using it.
Please and thank you.

[Carpone]

NEW: T4: Draw them Out: Melee Attack: +3[w]. This attack adds 300 Hate for the user to creatures it hits on top of its normal damage. 6 second cooldown. (1 Rank, 1AP)

NEW: T6: Celestial Mandate: Melee Attack: +5[w]. This attack adds 2000 Hate for the user to creatures it hits on top of its normal damage. 6 second cooldown. (1 Rank, 1AP)
Love the idea of providing tools to grab mobs that cannot be intimidated. However, tanks lack +Accuracy items necessary to land these attacks consistently. Adding +5% hit per core would go a long way to solve that problem.

[mikarddo]

Exalted Angel
This is a good tree, for those who can make use of the skills in it. We analyzed it and didn't see much that we thought merited major change, though we might try to loop back for some bugfixes before release. We did make a change to one skill for game balance reasons.

Reborn in Light no longer charges with Endless Ardor and Righteous Fervor; instead, it is once per Rest (keeps 10min cooldown).




Some parts of EA are fine but others definitely are not. In particular the light damage aspect and the Judgement line are too weak.
Please consider the following changes:

Astral Vibrance: In its current state it is too weak, too sitautional (have to be in range AND be below 50% hp) and too costly to ever use on its own.
Remove the requirements to be below 50% hp for both damage and healing, double the damage and cap the sp cost at 30sp every 2 seconds.

Avenging Light: While cheap to cast the damage is just too low. Double the damage.

Endless Faith: Remove the prereqs. Needing 9 ap spent to get this to tier 3 is simply too much - while those not in EA can get it simply using a tier 1 twist.

Soundburst: Fix the DC to be equal to that of the actual spell. Right now it is much lower.

Judgement Line: Too weak and AP costly to be of real use. Lower cost to 1 ap for Judgement and Lay to Rest. Lower cooldown to 5 seconds on Lay to Rest. Double the damage. (This may still not be enough)

Be at Peace: The "damage breaks the effect" makes this effect very situational which means I needs to be much cheaper. Dont reset counters. Lower cooldown to 1 min. Reduce cost to 1ap.

Sun Bolt: Lower cost to 1 AP.

Divine Wrath: The damage is too low for a tier 6 ability even considering the healing. Double the damage.

Reborn in Light. With the once per rest change remove the 10 min cooldown.

NEW: Tier 6: Sunburst SLA. Cooldown 12 sec, cost 25 sp. AP cost 1. This to make the tree fully usefull for a light damage caster.

[SpartanKiller13]

Unyielding Sentinel
This Destiny was meant to do two things: Keep you alive and help you tank. It's decent at the first and not great at the second. Most of the changes here are meant to help you tank. The two new Actives aren't perfect; we had some bigger plans and ran into tech issues in doing what we wanted. Hoping they'll at least be helpful, and we can tweak numbers until they are.

NEW: T4: Draw them Out: Melee Attack: +3[w]. This attack adds 300 Hate for the user to creatures it hits on top of its normal damage. 6 second cooldown. (1 Rank, 1AP)
NEW: T6: Celestial Mandate: Melee Attack: +5[w]. This attack adds 2000 Hate for the user to creatures it hits on top of its normal damage. 6 second cooldown. (1 Rank, 1AP)


Does the +hate scale with threatgen? Otherwise it feels pretty weak. Any tank 20+ I'd expect to have 70+ Intimidate, so each button-press is giving 14,000 Hate after bumping you to the top of the list. My first life tank has 136-141 (depending on buffs) and I expect +11 from Sharn, so ~150. That's 30,000 Hate every 5.4 seconds (thanks to Linguistics). In either case, 300 is nearly nothing (2.1% and 1%) and even 2,000 isn't a huge gain (15% and 6.7%).

Could those numbers be tweaked a bit higher, or given some sort of scaling?

Thanks :)

[HuneyMunster]

Divine Crusader:



Stand and be Judged now has a DC of 10+Wisdom Modifier+Character Level+Stunning Bonuses (We also made it faster & more reliable to cast a few Updates ago)

Celestial Bombardment now only has 1 rank, that does what the old Rank 3 did.
Celestial Bombardment now costs 20SP.
Celestial Bombardment now takes the Enlarge, Maximize, Empower, Intensify, Embolden, and Quicken Metamagics.
Celestial Bombardment is now significantly quicker to cast.

Celestial Champion's Doublestrike and Doubleshot are now Sacred-typed.



Couple of issues.

Stand and be Judged should have Charisma as an option as along with Strength is Paladins main stat as well as Charisma based Favored Souls.

The same applies to Celestial Bombardment.

Celestial Champion doublestrike being Sacred means it will not stack with Paladins Zeal spell or will be stack with this spell?

[QueenOfTheHook]

I'm with everyone else with the nerf to Reborn, can you please reduce the time penalty at least? Maybe cut it to 5 minutes if you feel like we must have some time restriction.



Is Hate tanking going to be address in a different patch?

Currently, there are way more benefits to shield block intim turtle tanking than hate tanking.

Shield blocks provide 60% (large shield) elemental absorption with the PLs.
Shield block makes the tank immune to most special attack.
Shield block reduce incoming physical damage

Increasing the hate threat in US will help with people playing hate tanks, but this doesn't solve the problem intimidate turtle tank is far more survivable than hate tanking.

The change to hate generation will not change how people play a tank.

There should be some kind of hp% boost when not using a shield. Maybe some type of immunity to special attack when not using a shield. Perhaps % of damage reduction when not using a shield in US.

The tree can use some kind of attack bonus to the cores. Even if someone is playing a hate tank, they are not going to do much when they graze.

Renewal should be adjusted so there isn't a 2 to 3 second window at the initial cast that does nothing.

Each ED should have 3 different ability to choose from - like Divine Crusader.

Unless your skin is suddenly turning into a hunk of solid metal, you without a big shield in your face absolutely should take more damage than someone with a big hunk of metal between them and the enemy. If you want to dps hate tank, then you will take more damage. Those of us with a huge shield, often are doing next to no damage as a trade off for that survivability.

[cru121]

Would it be too much work to add bit of love for ranged characters to this sphere? Probably Divine Crusader. Maybe for one or two of the special melee attacks, add a ranged variant?

More about Divine Crusader:
* Does the aura affect all enemies now?
* Couple abilities could cost less, starting with Smite the Wicked
* I always thought one of the special attacks should grant Weaken Undead (https://ddowiki.com/page/Weaken_Undead)

[Snuggles]

...
Fix bugs and remove things that hinder fun or usability...


Would you folks be willing to take a look at the T3 Unyielding Sentinel ability Renewal?

Currently, Renewal lasts for 8 seconds but you will only receive 3 'ticks' of healing. After you use Renewal and the server recognizes (places the buff) that action, it can sometimes take nearly 2 seconds before you receive the first tick of healing.

My suggestion would be to simply(?) add an initial heal upon a successful cast.

[janave]

Endless Faith

10% SP pool increase. I don't think it is particularly fair to any Divine that actually wants this, its a 9AP commitment while any other Bluebar its a tier 1 twist which to me is a relativity small investment.

A tier 1 twist, vs more than a third of my AP pool. It doesn't seem fair/ balanced.

Why is there a prereq for healing power and radiant power?

Yup, this.^ It is a proxy buff to all the other casters.


As for Reborn, an alternative way could be similar to the temp hp boosts, that lower CON until rest. Reborn could lower All stats on raise, max hps, max spellpoints. Debuffs clearing on rest shrines.


1st raise: no debuff
2nd raise: some stats and -3.3% hp/sp
3rd raise: some stats and -10% hp/sp
4th..: -30%
etc...

[justsomeguy999]

Would it be possible to get either Wisdom or Charisma to DCs for Stand and be Judged and Celestial Bombardment rather than only WIS? Favoured Souls use Charisma, Paladins will have much more CHA than WIS on average, and it would be great for those classes to be able to fully benefit from their natural tree (for martial FvS at least). It would be in line with the INT/CHA DCs in something like draconic, and would also provide some nice secondary options for some bards/sorc EKs, without becoming the best options for those archetypes.

[Arlathen]

Some feedback for the Divine Crusader changes:



Add Charisma to Stand and be Judged / Celestial Bombardment for Paladin & FvS Builds, please!
Celestial Champion now clashes with Paladin's Zeal spell. Please change to Unique bonus to allow stacking?
+1 Religious Feat per core to suit the new Favoured Weapons abilities for all classes to benefit from Favoured Weapon changes?
T4: The Book of War - Please Add Bastard Swords to the list. Paladin Vanguard lives matter too :)


The 'one' extra change I'd like you to consider is for Zeal of the Righteous.

I've never liked the decay-over-time approach to the ability despite it being our main improvement in offensive output in the tree. 4 Minutes is such a long cooldown for the 2 Minutes, 30 seconds uptime on the ability, and at 2 minutes+ into the ability were down to our last 10 stacks and fading fast. Could I suggest the following changes:



Zeal of the Righteous: 25 Stacks gained, 3s decay per stack, 2 Minute cooldown
NEW T6: Fury of the Divine (1 Rank, 1AP): Your Zeal of the Righteous bonuses are now doubled to +2 MP/RP/SP/DStrike/Dshot per stack.


This would then preserve the decay rate and burst opportunity design of the ability with a little more investment at T6 for improved output, but also really usefully aligns with the typical 2 minute refresh on Divine Might/Divine Will/Know the Angles type abilities scattered through the Enhancement trees.

[ElweSulk]

Exalted Angel
This is a good tree, for those who can make use of the skills in it. We analyzed it and didn't see much that we thought merited major change, though we might try to loop back for some bugfixes before release. We did make a change to one skill for game balance reasons.

Reborn in Light no longer charges with Endless Ardor and Righteous Fervor; instead, it is once per Rest (keeps 10min cooldown).


I'm partly ok with this change. The no charging of Reborn is good, but once per rest is not. Please make it usable more per rest. For a proper build currently, it's basically usable once it's off cooldown; so reducing it to once per rest is a huge nerf. No charging is a good buff for those who have difficulty to charge it currently.

Other abilities not mentioned which need change/fix:


Ascendance: "While in angelic form, you are immune to repair spells and do not have Warforged healing amp penalties.". Please remove that limitation about warforged (you have already for Palemasters)
Astral Vibrance: Does this work at all? Damage output? Spell point cost? Fix those and make damage scale with some spell power. After fixing spell point cost: don't make it so costly as it's current tooltip says. While you fix it, please make sure it's working properly together with Ascendance (health req. & cost).
Angelic form (Ascendance & Reborn in Light): Make it easy to toggle this form off

[ElweSulk]

Divine Crusader:


NEW: T4: The Book of War: (Multiselector): Pick one of the following to gain as a Favored Weapon: Longsword, Longbow, Morningstar, Greatsword (1 Rank, 1AP)
NEW: T6: The Book of War: Wrath of the Divine: While wielding a Favored Weapon in your Main Hand, you gain +1 to Hit and Damage for every 2 Religious Lore Feats you have with all equipped weapons and shields. (1 Rank, 1AP)


- Picking favored weapon: This locks out lots of builds. Change it to either: 1) your equipped weapon is your favored weapon (i.e. it changes as you equip different weapons, 2) or have a much wider weapon selection, 3) or maybe based on slash/pierc/etc... (same categories you can pick with improved critical)
- Religious Lore Feats: again, this limits people picking this destiny. Change it to be based on something else. Maybe based somehow on greater of str/wis/cha? (since those are the stats this destiny can pick)

[Seph1roth5]

Unyielding Sentinel: Never really played a hate tank so not sure how good most of those changes are...but the buff to undying vanguard seems nice, and I whiff all the time on divine energy resist, so that'll be nice.

Exalted Angel: Uhh well not too much to comment on here lol, but seems fine.

Divine Crusader: Another ED I don't usually spend much time in, but everything seems to be upgraded so...if I ever make a DPS paly instead of a tank it might be interesting. Or maybe if I want to get nostalgic with a greatsword-wielding fvs, that'd be decent for him.

[Alled78]

Some feedback for the Divine Crusader changes:



Add Charisma to Stand and be Judged / Celestial Bombardment for Paladin & FvS Builds, please!
Celestial Champion now clashes with Paladin's Zeal spell. Please change to Unique bonus to allow stacking?
+1 Religious Feat per core to suit the new Favoured Weapons abilities for all classes to benefit from Favoured Weapon changes?
T4: The Book of War - Please Add Bastard Swords to the list. Paladin Vanguard lives matter too :)


The 'one' extra change I'd like you to consider is for Zeal of the Righteous.

I've never liked the decay-over-time approach to the ability despite it being our main improvement in offensive output in the tree. 4 Minutes is such a long cooldown for the 2 Minutes, 30 seconds uptime on the ability, and at 2 minutes+ into the ability were down to our last 10 stacks and fading fast. Could I suggest the following changes:



Zeal of the Righteous: 25 Stacks gained, 3s decay per stack, 2 Minute cooldown
NEW T6: Fury of the Divine (1 Rank, 1AP): Your Zeal of the Righteous bonuses are now doubled to +2 MP/RP/SP/DStrike/Dshot per stack.


This would then preserve the decay rate and burst opportunity design of the ability with a little more investment at T6 for improved output, but also really usefully aligns with the typical 2 minute refresh on Divine Might/Divine Will/Know the Angles type abilities scattered through the Enhancement trees.

My main concern with crusader is the Epic Moment
ZEAL of the righteous need improvement:

1) decay is meh, remove it
2) doublestrike is not so useful actually for many melee because if the 100% cap

[Ralmeth]

In anticipation of the Knight of the Chalice update later this year, I broke out an old Paladin and turned him into a THF Knight of the Chalice, and brought him up to cap primarily running in the Divine Crusader tree. I really like the changes that you proposed for this tree. However the one thing that this tree is sorely missing is more melee power. I can swap over to Shadow Dancer, Primal Avatar for a much higher, passive bonus to melee power, or go with Legendary Dreadnought and Blitz for even more, than if I am actually awarded all of the melee power you are going to fix in the update. Could you please consider increasing the melee power in the cores and those abilities that grant melee power?

[Ballrus]

Stand and be Judged now has a DC of 10+Wisdom Modifier+Character Level+Stunning Bonuses (We also made it faster & more reliable to cast a few Updates ago)
Can include cha modifier too?
10+Wisdom or Charisma Modifier+Character Level+Stunning Bonuses

Very nice work!!

[Wongar]

Aura of Purification currently only affects one seemingly random enemy while the description still says all "Nearby enemies"

This was changed from all to one a long time ago and I do not ever remember seeing a comment on if this was intentional or accidental. I filed a bug report on it way back when with the hope it was an unintentional side affect of some other change.

Can it please be fixed and put back to it's original working state of affecting all nearby enemies. I used to really enjoy this on my Paladin tank as it provided a different play style with longer encounters and you could feel the tide turn with each encounter as the ticks slowly built up. I don't see how it could be considered game breaking or OP in today's game as the DPS and speed of most groups will clear most encounters before it ever matters. Fixing it will provide those that prefer the slower / damage over time / planned encounters a tool to have fun with.

If this is working as intended, can the description at least be changed and possibly give the ability to select the mob?

[Ballrus]

Stand and be Judged now has a DC of 10+Wisdom Modifier+Character Level+Stunning Bonuses (We also made it faster & more reliable to cast a few Updates ago)


Can include cha modifier too?
10+Wisdom or Charisma Modifier+Character Level+Stunning Bonuses

Very nice work!!

Also:

Divine Crusader
"NEW: T4: The Book of War: (Multiselector): Pick one of the following to gain as a Favored Weapon: Longsword, Longbow, Morningstar, Greatsword (1 Rank, 1AP)"

Maybe can include heavy picks and bastard swd?

And:

Strike Down atm stops movement, can make it work like normal cleave/g cleave?

Thanks.

[Steelstar]

Thanks for the feedback so far! Time to tackle a few replies:


While the DC casting side of EA is fine, nuking options could use some help.
-The T1 SLA could use better dice. Also examine the saving throw, if one is really required on this.

We can take a quick look at this.


Will Crusader Aura now affect more than 1 creature per pulse again? It was never clear if that was a bug or an intentional nerf, but building so much of the tree around an "aura" that only pulses on a single target at a time really hampers its usefulness and the appeal of spending DP to upgrade it.
Hrm. I'll take a look at the targeting numbers, see if I can find anything off.


Crusader looks very nice

But have you fixed WF Warsoul crit mods (T5 & core5) breaking if you unequip the deity weapon for any reason (including swapping to the same weapon type)?
Can you send us more details on this? I'm not familiar with anything specific to Warforged War Souls.


Divine Crusader
"NEW: T4: The Book of War: (Multiselector): Pick one of the following to gain as a Favored Weapon: Longsword, Longbow, Morningstar, Greatsword (1 Rank, 1AP)"

This is a great idea expanding the favored weapon options for war souls/priests. But the selection is really limited. It's annoying to have certain weapons being locked into iconic/non-iconic races. Adding those 4 weapons helps just slightly. Why not have a mutliselector that grants a group of similar weapons.

Like something similar to this:
(Multiselector): Pick one of the following:
You now count Long Swords, Bastard Swords, and Great Swords as Favored Weapons, regardless of your Deity.
You now count Hand Axes, Battles Axes and Great Axes as Favored Weapons, regardless of your Deity.
You now count Light Picks, Heavy Picks, and Dwarven Axes as Favored Weapons, regardless of your Deity.
You now count Clubs, Morningstars, and Great Clubs as Favored Weapons, regardless of your Deity.
You now count Light Hammers, War Hammers and Mauls as Favored Weapons, regardless of your Deity.
You now count Short Swords, Rapiers and Daggers as Favored Weapons, regardless of your Deity.

Also, since this a tree for a special kind of spell power casting and melee build, adding a new enhancement that makes our deities favored weapon a Spellcasting Implement, or something similar, would be a nice touch. Maybe an option to choose between a spell power or a tactics DC bonus while holding a favored weapon.
We really intentionally picked these four weapons as a basic package that fit the theme; we still want to introduce other Favored Weapons elsewhere (as we have been for the last year or two).

We might be able to pull off the Spellcasting Implement thing, I'll take a look.


Please revert, as typing it as Sacred makes Zeal -- a Paladin signature spell -- worthless.
Alternately: Paladins have this bonus up potentially 100% of the time without having to worry about crits or stacking. Starting at level 14. This skill's still good for the crit bonus. I could see the angle of losing out on total doublestrike, but the only way that should be happening is if you currently both (run Zeal at full uptime) and (do not have a Doublestrike item equipped). In which case... you should run a Doublestrike item.


Does the +hate scale with threatgen? Otherwise it feels pretty weak. Any tank 20+ I'd expect to have 70+ Intimidate, so each button-press is giving 14,000 Hate after bumping you to the top of the list. My first life tank has 136-141 (depending on buffs) and I expect +11 from Sharn, so ~150. That's 30,000 Hate every 5.4 seconds (thanks to Linguistics). In either case, 300 is nearly nothing (2.1% and 1%) and even 2,000 isn't a huge gain (15% and 6.7%).

Could those numbers be tweaked a bit higher, or given some sort of scaling?

Thanks :)
I'm honestly not sure whether the flat hate added by the attacks gets scaled by %-based increases to Hate. Unfortunately, I can't scale it directly. (Have a look at my opening blurb about Unyielding Sentinel - The tools at our disposal for adjusting hate are not good, and I don't think I have the engineering resources to fix that right now, sadly. I'd like to. If I can in the future, I will.).


Would you folks be willing to take a look at the T3 Unyielding Sentinel ability Renewal?

Currently, Renewal lasts for 8 seconds but you will only receive 3 'ticks' of healing. After you use Renewal and the server recognizes (places the buff) that action, it can sometimes take nearly 2 seconds before you receive the first tick of healing.

My suggestion would be to simply(?) add an initial heal upon a successful cast.
I can poke at this.


Would it be possible to get either Wisdom or Charisma to DCs for Stand and be Judged and Celestial Bombardment rather than only WIS? Favoured Souls use Charisma, Paladins will have much more CHA than WIS on average, and it would be great for those classes to be able to fully benefit from their natural tree (for martial FvS at least). It would be in line with the INT/CHA DCs in something like draconic, and would also provide some nice secondary options for some bards/sorc EKs, without becoming the best options for those archetypes.
Would have to talk to the team about the implications of this; SoBJ is a stronger skill than I think a lot of people have given it credit for. Possible.


I'm partly ok with this change. The no charging of Reborn is good, but once per rest is not. Please make it usable more per rest. For a proper build currently, it's basically usable once it's off cooldown; so reducing it to once per rest is a huge nerf. No charging is a good buff for those who have difficulty to charge it currently.




Sorry. There's only about two things completely locked in stone in this pass, and one of them is "Reborn needs to drop to once per Rest for balance reasons".



- Religious Lore Feats: again, this limits people picking this destiny. Change it to be based on something else. Maybe based somehow on greater of str/wis/cha? (since those are the stats this destiny can pick)
We intentionally made this scale off of Religious Lore feats. That might mean this Destiny is better for people with a lot of Divine levels (...or Bard levels, I guess) than for people without that, and we're 100% OK with that.



Strike Down atm stops movement, can make it work like normal cleave/g cleave?

Can do.

[Arlathen]

No way/time to tinker with Zeal of the Righteous then? Sad Panda :(

[Vooduspyce]

Unyielding Sentinel
This Destiny was meant to do two things: Keep you alive and help you tank. It's decent at the first and not great at the second. Most of the changes here are meant to help you tank. The two new Actives aren't perfect; we had some bigger plans and ran into tech issues in doing what we wanted. Hoping they'll at least be helpful, and we can tweak numbers until they are.


Commanding Presence's hate doubles to 100/200/300%
Stand Against the Tide's extra hate jumps to 50% per stack (250% at full stacks, was 100%)



Very happy to see hate gen increased. For the past year or more it's been increasingly difficult to hold aggro against the massive dps others are doing these days.






Stand Against the Tide's extra hate now applies to missile weapon damage and magic damage as well (was previously melee-only)
Divine Energy Resistance can now be cast directly on allies (instead of only yourself)
Ward Against Evil's light damage scales with 400% of the higher of Melee and Ranged Power
Rank 3 of Ward Against Evil now also grants you immunity to the Mind Control effects of Evil creatures.
You can now use Undying Vanguard while Crowd-Controlled and/or Helpless
Undying Vanguard's Temporary HP now last for 30 seconds.
NEW: T4: Draw them Out: Melee Attack: +3[w]. This attack adds 300 Hate for the user to creatures it hits on top of its normal damage. 6 second cooldown. (1 Rank, 1AP)
NEW: T6: Celestial Mandate: Melee Attack: +5[w]. This attack adds 2000 Hate for the user to creatures it hits on top of its normal damage. 6 second cooldown. (1 Rank, 1AP)



Tier 6 innate Steadfast states "You cannot be knocked down while Standing Against the Tide." Being able to stay on your feet is very important as a tank and so many things can bypass this and it is extremely frustrating. Knockdown immunity is supposed to be one of those advantages as a tank yet webline trip, giant stomps, dragon attacks, cyclonic blast and the new raid boss in Too Hot to Handle can all bypass it. I understand that some of those are functions of those particular attacks and not a function of the "knockdown immunity", but as a player it's the results that matter, not the technical components of it. Please make knockdown immunity so that we are truly unable to be knocked down.

[Steelstar]

Tier 6 innate Steadfast states "You cannot be knocked down while Standing Against the Tide." Being able to stay on your feet is very important as a tank and so many things can bypass this and it is extremely frustrating. Knockdown immunity is supposed to be one of those advantages as a tank yet webline trip, giant stomps, dragon attacks, cyclonic blast and the new raid boss in Too Hot to Handle can all bypass it. I understand that some of those are functions of those particular attacks and not a function of the "knockdown immunity", but as a player it's the results that matter, not the technical components of it. Please make knockdown immunity so that we are truly unable to be knocked down.

We've been talking about knockdown immunity internally during this pass; it's intended that some very powerful creatures can bypass it (like Spawn Screen does with summoning undead). At some point soon I'm going to add that caveat text to all sources of knockdown immunity, and I'm urging Content to try and stick to the following two guidelines:

Be very sparing with when you make knockdown effects that bypass immunity, and
If you do, clearly mention in the effect tooltip that this bypasses knockdown immunity, so players can tell the difference between a bug and an intended bypass. (Yes, I know it's hard to look at those tooltips on the fly, but still.)

[SerPounce]

We've been talking about knockdown immunity internally during this pass; it's intended that some very powerful creatures can bypass it (like Spawn Screen does with summoning undead). At some point soon I'm going to add that caveat text to all sources of knockdown immunity, and I'm urging Content to try and stick to the following two guidelines:

Be very sparing with when you make knockdown effects that bypass immunity, and
If you do, clearly mention in the effect tooltip that this bypasses knockdown immunity, so players can tell the difference between a bug and an intended bypass. (Yes, I know it's hard to look at those tooltips on the fly, but still.)


It's one thing when special attacks from purple names knock you down, but when it's random arsed driders and your neighborhood fire giant tripping you it seems particularly lame.

[kain741]

Alternately: Paladins have this bonus up potentially 100% of the time without having to worry about crits or stacking. Starting at level 14. This skill's still good for the crit bonus. I could see the angle of losing out on total doublestrike, but the only way that should be happening is if you currently both (run Zeal at full uptime) and (do not have a Doublestrike item equipped). In which case... you should run a Doublestrike item.


We intentionally made this scale off of Religious Lore feats. That might mean this Destiny is better for people with a lot of Divine levels (...or Bard levels, I guess) than for people without that, and we're 100% OK with that.



I hope you understand the contradiction here. You're telling us you fully understand that DC is meant to entice divine melees but you are making one of the biggest DPS drivers redundant with a class spell. If someone is playing a melee dps driven pally they will have Zeal up and running 100% of the time without exception. The idea of this appealing to divine melees loses zeal (some pun intended) when it can't stack this doublestrike. This seems like it should be a different type or maybe melee power (sacred bonus) or maybe if you want to entice divines make it so it will buff zeal to 20% automatically with no need to build stacks when the spell is cast and celestial champion is taken.

[Arkat]

It's one thing when special attacks from purple names knock you down, but when it's random arsed driders and your neighborhood fire giant tripping you it seems particularly lame.

Agreed.

[Tist]

Should Reborn be twice per rest? Three times per rest?

It should have it's charge mechanism removed, and keep it's 10 mins recycle timer. Why mess with the existing timer? It's unbalanced cos some people use it to solo raids? I can use cakes I pay for to achieve the same thing in quests, but that's not unbalanced cos I pay for them? Are the cakes getting a once per rest nerf too?

What should happen is it gets checked for the times it fails (raid rez timer, random times it just doesn't work for no reason) and you keep the charge so you can try again if it didn't rez you.

[Alcides]

Sacred Ground from the divine crusader tree needs to be affected by metamagic feats and positive healing critical.

[Ulfo]

Bring yourself back from the dead as many times as you need (old)
Bring yourself back from the dead once per rest (new)

And you think that's a "pure buff"?

Seriously?

Yea, seriously.

Before, i use it once per several rest and need charge it and keep charge.
New, i can use it once per rest for free.

Absolutely pure buff.

Yea, 10 min cooldown now seems redundant and must be removed.

[axel15810]

Divine Crusader comments -



Confront Any Foe now adds +3[w]
Confront Any Foe's Light damage now scales with 300% Melee Power

A bit related to the new changes but is there a reason this has to be powered by turns? Maybe I'm being biased here with how I like to play melee divines in DDO, but since clerics rely on turns for radiant servant burst and aura it just seems really impractical to burn through half your turn undeads in a single encounter unless it gives crazy good damage. They regen, sure, but not nearly quickly enough to keep up with how fast you can burn them with this ability. Will test the damage on release, but I personally will not use it unless it gives insane damage for this reason. Unless the intent here is that you'll have to sacrifice your radiant servant abilities and rely on spellpoints to heal if you want to use this ability. I guess this has much more appeal for paladins though, whose turns aren't as valuable.


Celestial Bombardment now only has 1 rank, that does what the old Rank 3 did.
Celestial Bombardment now costs 20SP.
Celestial Bombardment now takes the Enlarge, Maximize, Empower, Intensify, Embolden, and Quicken Metamagics.
Celestial Bombardment is now significantly quicker to cast.

Looking forward to testing. Will see if it's going to be worth fitting fire spellpower into a melee divine gearset for this. Guess those small fire spellpower increases from Warpriest may mean a tad more now.



Celestial Champion's Doublestrike and Doubleshot are now Sacred-typed. Awesome.


NEW: T4: The Book of War: (Multiselector): Pick one of the following to gain as a Favored Weapon: Longsword, Longbow, Morningstar, Greatsword (1 Rank, 1AP)

Why only 4 options?


Overall impression - I will give Crusader a shot and test it out when this releases but to be honest I'm still doubtful there are enough reasons to justify using Crusader on my melee cleric. I will give it a chance though.

[voxson5]

Thanks for the feedback so far! Time to tackle a few replies:

Can you send us more details on this? I'm not familiar with anything specific to Warforged War Souls.

Thank you for taking an interest in this.

Please refer to bug report #87723

Also, here is a copy of what I PM'ed Coco, currently not responded to, on 05-10-2019, 10:12 PM:
"
https://www.ddo.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.png Inquiry - Are you aware of the bug with T5 Warsoul losing crit multi on weapon swap?
Hi there,

Not sure if this is a known issue. I had already submitted a bug report, but not had more than an automated response.

I have a 100% repeatable bug with regards to the FvS Warsoul tree, T5 "Divine Power".

On first log on, or once enhancement points are reset and repent in that tree, if wielding the deity weapon at the time, it works as intended.

If the deity weapon is unequipped for what ever reason, even changing to the same weapon type (ie greatsword->greatsword), the critical multiplier aspect the the "Divine Power" enhancement is lost.

As you can image, this is incredibly frustrating from a game play point of view.

This limits my ability to properly contribute to groups and raids.

More than happy to provide video evidence of the bug in action.

Details:
WF FvS / 2 monk, greatsword as deity weapon.

Testing methodology:
1- 1st log on with deity weapon & enhancement tree set up - WAI
2 - unequiping and reequipping the same weapon drops the multiplier
3 - relogging with deity weapon & enhancement tree set up - WAI, multiplier restored
4 - swapping to another greatsword (any equipable) drops the multiplier
5 - paying for Warsoul reset and re-buying Divine Power - WAI, multiplier restored
6+ - etc

I've also tried with and without cosmetics, with different weapons, with non-weapons (scrolls & wands).

I believe this could easily be replicated to exclude further variables if tested on a brand new iconic bladeforged with 5 FvS levels.

I really appreciate any help on this.

Thank you. "




I don't know if it was other enhancements interacting either - eg I had the weapon attachment enhancement from the racial tree, which seemed to stop LD's improved PA from doing anything (PA on added to bonus damage, not +05[w]).

Since TR'ed so can;t go back and retest my own set up sorry, but it was 17 in racial, 26 in falconry (helpless and stance), 33 in Warsoul (T5 & Core5 crit).

I hope this helps.

[Grace_ana]

Endless Faith

10% SP pool increase. I don't think it is particularly fair to any Divine that actually wants this, its a 9AP commitment while any other Bluebar its a tier 1 twist which to me is a relativity small investment.

A tier 1 twist, vs more than a third of my AP pool. It doesn't seem fair/ balanced.

Why is there a prereq for healing power and radiant power?

Agreed these should be uncoupled from each other.

[darknoobslayer]

Could we get a wisdom version of Angelic Presence? I have to agree with some of the earlier post EA could definitely use some updating, such as removing the chains from endless faith as suggested.

[DeltaBravo]

Would it be an option to add some MRR in the stances (maybe lower the PRR instead for balance) in the US tree core stances. the game have changed alot to be focused on MRR rather then PRR alone now. And maybe adding some MRR would make a huge diffrence here...?

[PsychoBlonde]

Please disconnect Endless Faith in Exalted Angel from requiring BOTH spellpower increases to take! It's absurd that this ability is better to twist when you're in another destiny than actually use in Exalted Angel because the requirements are so steep and have so little value!

Otherwise, I like the changes.

[GramercyRiff]

Sentinel gets tankier but EA gets a nerf. I guess it's a fair trade. lol it's not really fair but whatever. Clearly they wanted to nerf Reborn the most, so they decided to finally work on the epic destinies so we would freak out less. It doesn't affect me because I don't raid, but I imagine there are less than happy folks regarding Reborn.

DC is still pretty meh. It's not bad, it's just still not very good. Sentinel and Angel are good though, so I guess it's ok for Crusader to be meh?

[Iriale]

LOL. Fortunately I never had enough points for reborn in light, but I know many people who are going to feel angry with this nerf. At least take away the cooldown. Since it is once for rest, what harm does it take to remove the cooldown? With the cooldown it will not be worth spending points on that, and it's a Tier 6 ability.


Please disconnect Endless Faith in Exalted Angel from requiring BOTH spellpower increases to take! It's absurd that this ability is better to twist when you're in another destiny than actually use in Exalted Angel because the requirements are so steep and have so little value!
I agree

[JOTMON]

Exalted Angel
This is a good tree, for those who can make use of the skills in it. We analyzed it and didn't see much that we thought merited major change, though we might try to loop back for some bugfixes before release. We did make a change to one skill for game balance reasons.

Reborn in Light no longer charges with Endless Ardor and Righteous Fervor; instead, it is once per Rest (keeps 10min cooldown).





In the interest of fairness since you are shafting Reborn in Light users, are all the other Epic Destiny T6 effects being changed to a 10 minute cooldown with a 1x use/rest ?
No other epic Destiny T6 effects have a 10 minute cooldown. all are 5 min or less.

Fearsome Invulnerability' Epic Moment: Active Ability: (Cooldown 5mins)
'Nullmagic Aura' Epic Moment: Active Ability: (Cooldown 5 minutes)
'Undying Vanguard' Epic Moment: Active Ability: (Cooldown 2 minutes, usable once per rest)
Audience with the Queen: Active Ability: (Cooldown: 2 minutes 34 seconds)
Unbridled Fury Epic Moment: Active Ability: (Cooldown 5mins)

Other T6 stuff..
'Dark Imbuement' Epic Moment: Active Ability: (Cooldown: 5 minutes)
Everything is Nothing: Active Ability: (Cooldown 5 min) pending change to 3 min and no longer everything, just 4. maybe needs renaming to a Few Are Nothing.
Master's Blitz Epic Moment: Active Ability: (Cooldown 5 mins)
Rain of Arrows: Active Ability: (Cooldown: 5 minutes)
Avatar of Nature Epic Moment: Active (5 sec cooldown) (based on building/losing spirit charges)
Turn of the Tide: (Active Cooldown: 6 mins)

[GramercyRiff]

LOL. Fortunately I never had enough points for reborn in light, but I know many people who are going to feel angry with this nerf. At least take away the cooldown. Since it is once for rest, what harm does it take to remove the cooldown? With the cooldown it will not be worth spending points on that, and it's a Tier 6 ability.


Agree with this. Cooldown on a 1/rest epic ability is bad. It's ok to have self-raise power on demand 1/rest in epic levels.

[droid327]

We really intentionally picked these four weapons as a basic package that fit the theme; we still want to introduce other Favored Weapons elsewhere (as we have been for the last year or two).


Mentioned it above but I think its worth repeating...

I really like the idea of Favored Weapons. But until there's actually a reason TO wield Favored Weapons other than Grace/Knowledge of Battle, I see very little reason to spend so much time expanding what's Favored.

All of Warpriest's FW-based attacks are either lackluster or too expensive for what they give you. And that's the ONLY thing wielding a FW gives you right now. Maybe you have plans coming up for this with the KotC revamp - I would fully expect that you did - but I think even then FW needs some more systemic improvement to make them attractive enough to take over meta weapons.

EDs would be a good place to introduce some of these mechanics - substantial bonuses or special abilities while wielding a FW, enough that you'd want to use, e.g., an Olladra Sickle over a Khopesh or KT Longsword.

[Cantor]

In the interest of fairness since you are shafting Reborn in Light users, are all the other Epic Destiny T6 effects being changed to a 10 minute cooldown with a 1x use/rest ?
No other epic Destiny T6 effects have a 10 minute cooldown. all are 5 min or less.

Fearsome Invulnerability' Epic Moment: Active Ability: (Cooldown 5mins)
'Nullmagic Aura' Epic Moment: Active Ability: (Cooldown 5 minutes)
'Undying Vanguard' Epic Moment: Active Ability: (Cooldown 2 minutes, usable once per rest)
Audience with the Queen: Active Ability: (Cooldown: 2 minutes 34 seconds)
Unbridled Fury Epic Moment: Active Ability: (Cooldown 5mins)

Other T6 stuff..
'Dark Imbuement' Epic Moment: Active Ability: (Cooldown: 5 minutes)
Everything is Nothing: Active Ability: (Cooldown 5 min) pending change to 3 min and no longer everything, just 4. maybe needs renaming to a Few Are Nothing.
Master's Blitz Epic Moment: Active Ability: (Cooldown 5 mins)
Rain of Arrows: Active Ability: (Cooldown: 5 minutes)
Avatar of Nature Epic Moment: Active (5 sec cooldown) (based on building/losing spirit charges)
Turn of the Tide: (Active Cooldown: 6 mins)

You missed avatar of nature being completely neutered with5 minute cooldown and a limited duration.

[zaidm271981]

Agree with this. Cooldown on a 1/rest epic ability is bad. It's ok to have self-raise power on demand 1/rest in epic levels.


We have had 3 people already saying divine crusader is nowhere near good in its current iteration and i strongly agree with them. It badly needs huge boosts in melee power in its cores and i would also propose the lengthening of the duration of zeal of the righteous as well. Or eventually no one will play it at all, and that will be the definition of imbalanced.
9 melee power per core would be acceptable and more on a par with the other melee destinies - even with the proposed changes it is too much of an easy choice to pick one of the martials over this..

[OfElectricMen]

We've been talking about knockdown immunity internally during this pass; it's intended that some very powerful creatures can bypass it
Then my only real request for any of this is that you rename it to "Knockdown Resistance".

Immunity is immunity. If some things can bypass it, it's not an immunity. Simply renaming it tells the players that some things might bypass it.

[TheMaxpower]

While you are tinkering with the trees, PLEASE tone-down the visual effect of Ascendance in the Exalted Angel Tree. It is way too bright!! It totally blinds my view and is extremely annoying for the other players. I don't even use it anymore because of this issue. Thank you in advance :)

[Iriale]

A change that would be welcome in exalted angel for clerics is if you add something that will help turn undead. One of the problems with turn undead is that it has no support at epic levels. At least one ED should have something that helps this aptitude at epic levels.

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

Some feedback for the Divine Crusader changes:



Add Charisma to Stand and be Judged / Celestial Bombardment for Paladin & FvS Builds, please!
Celestial Champion now clashes with Paladin's Zeal spell. Please change to Unique bonus to allow stacking?
+1 Religious Feat per core to suit the new Favoured Weapons abilities for all classes to benefit from Favoured Weapon changes?
T4: The Book of War - Please Add Bastard Swords to the list. Paladin Vanguard lives matter too :)


The 'one' extra change I'd like you to consider is for Zeal of the Righteous.

I've never liked the decay-over-time approach to the ability despite it being our main improvement in offensive output in the tree. 4 Minutes is such a long cooldown for the 2 Minutes, 30 seconds uptime on the ability, and at 2 minutes+ into the ability were down to our last 10 stacks and fading fast. Could I suggest the following changes:



Zeal of the Righteous: 25 Stacks gained, 3s decay per stack, 2 Minute cooldown
NEW T6: Fury of the Divine (1 Rank, 1AP): Your Zeal of the Righteous bonuses are now doubled to +2 MP/RP/SP/DStrike/Dshot per stack.


This would then preserve the decay rate and burst opportunity design of the ability with a little more investment at T6 for improved output, but also really usefully aligns with the typical 2 minute refresh on Divine Might/Divine Will/Know the Angles type abilities scattered through the Enhancement trees.

Please take this guy's suggestions seriously!

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

Legendary dreadnought became my main tree after I found out what it could do for my Melee artificer build, but now that Legendary Dreadnaught is getting a slight nerfing and Divine Crusader is getting a signficant overhaul it looks like I will be returning to Divine Crusader for the full BAB and hopefully other benefits.

Please give Divine Crusader some stuff to make it feel like home to a Melee Artificer as Melee Artificers are homeless in Epic Destinies!

*You could add Bastard swords, Dwarven War Axes, and War Hammers as favored weapons, grant Religious Lore feats to Artificers (Moradin is a deity worshiped by Engineers and as such would be thematically appropriate, Onatar is reverred by Artificers and some Warforged and so such would be even more appropriate). Just two religious lore feats per level gained in the Divine Crusader epic destiny tree for a total max of +10 would do fine.

*If you add Repair based variations of the divine healing buffs and enhancements, that would also help, it would make sense considering The Lord Of Blades is also a deity option in DDO

*If you place something at tier two in another Epic Destiny tree that could be twisted into a Divine Crusader Melee Artificer build, it would be great to be able to use my repair spellpower to determine scaling with my runearms so I don't have to swap out gear every time I need to use a different runearm. Said feat could also be made to work for spellswords and elemental damage sentient filligrees that scale based on spellpower. In other words, please make a twistable feat that allows spellswords, runearms, and sentient filligrees to scale based on someone's highest spellpower and spell critical chance as opposed to the elemental spellpower matching such.

All of this being said, I really do hope you can make it so that Melee artificers are no longer homeless in Epic Destiny Trees!

[Innokentiy]

Exalted Angel
This is a good tree, for those who can make use of the skills in it. We analyzed it and didn't see much that we thought merited major change, though we might try to loop back for some bugfixes before release. We did make a change to one skill for game balance reasons.



Please make 6-tier abilities cost 1 point, like in other destinies.

Also you tell this is a good tree and it really is, but it has a lot of expensive junk like Judgement line. Add there much more damage and bring down their cost, so it will have any sense just to watch that side.

[janave]

EA T6:

"Instant Crush" Single target CC spell Will save DC 20 + CHA or WIS ability score (highest).
Effect: Turn the target into an immobilized statue, helpless state, -25MRR, take 10000 fire damage roll Fort save vs DC20 +CHA or WIS .

Red/Purple Bosses immune, instead take: "Melted" -25 MRR for 10 seconds.

Cooldown: 33s

[Portibraf]

Ascendance: "While in angelic form, you are immune to repair spells and do not have Warforged healing amp penalties.". Please remove that limitation about warforged (you have already for Palemasters)


I'd support this

[JOTMON]

You missed avatar of nature being completely neutered with5 minute cooldown and a limited duration.

Avatar of Nature got screwed... resulting in tree extinction...

[SpartanKiller13]

Thanks for the feedback so far! Time to tackle a few replies:
I'm honestly not sure whether the flat hate added by the attacks gets scaled by %-based increases to Hate. Unfortunately, I can't scale it directly. (Have a look at my opening blurb about Unyielding Sentinel - The tools at our disposal for adjusting hate are not good, and I don't think I have the engineering resources to fix that right now, sadly. I'd like to. If I can in the future, I will.).

Thank you for your response!

I understand spaghetti code, fair enough. I'll wait for seeing if the Hate is scaled by % bonuses, but if not could you perhaps "tweak the numbers" a bit higher then? Adding 300 Hate won't put you much ahead of even heroic characters (my Cleric was hitting 1500's at level 14). Even the 2000 is beatable by many heroic characters in terms of a single attack, let alone however much damage they can put out during the 6 second cooldown of this & Intimidate.

[Strambotica]

EA.

· With the big nerf to Reborn in light to sell more cakes (i really cant think in another good reason for it). Could at least fix it? many times you click it while you moving and spend the charge, start the timer, but there is NO res.

· Agree with the idea of disconnect Endless Faith from Healing and Radiant Power.

[jskinner937]

Playing EA a lot both on Favored Soul and Sorcerer, here are some things that bug me:

* The spell points extension enhancement "Endless Faith" T1 is far too expensive, ideally this was detached from the spellpowers, this is a fairly low amount of enhancement for almost half the points sinked into it.
* I have a bad relationship with stack building mechanics, as it is not compatible with a bunch of other popular builds, including my own instant kills. Blood and Radiance: is a road block to get to the good stuff
* Soundburst SLA needs a hard target, while the spell can be tossed anywhere. (Actually it has been so long since i tried, it might be changed since then...)
* Be at Peace is overpriced, too long cooldown, little effect.
* All things that reset Endless Ardor and Righteous Fervor stacks, why?
* Astral Vibrance is mostly redundant and very mana expensive (I have never had a situation where I should have used it instead of other healing abilities/spells)
* If forged character using Ascendance lose energy drain immunity.
* Divine Wrath hard targeted will be lost if the target dies while casting, probably WAI, but not less annoying. The best use i found is kinda silly, i run next to the intended targets, and toss it under myself from a jump :)

Instead of a hard nerf to reborn in light, please consider adding a new T6 that allows to train an ability that lets it slowly recharge. Maybe for some major spell points sacrifice on top.

All of this and worth mentioning again...get rid of the 9 points to get the tier 3 echoes. Sad thing is that you are better off twisting than taking it live in the tree due to the pre-reqs. Just make those three trees separate. And the same for blood and radiance.

[jskinner937]

EA.

· With the big nerf to Reborn in light to sell more cakes (i really cant think in another good reason for it). Could at least fix it? many times you click it while you moving and spend the charge, start the timer, but there is NO res.

· Agree with the idea of disconnect Endless Faith from Healing and Radiant Power.

People mainly used it to solo raids. You cannot cake in a raid. It needed nerfed as it was allowing players to do things they shouldn’t.

[Iriale]

Could you tell me, lynnabel, if it is feasible to add some support to turn undead in exalted angel? Really this aptitude would be much more viable if it had some support in the EDs.

[Alcides]

Unyielding Sentinel
This Destiny was meant to do two things: Keep you alive and help you tank. It's decent at the first and not great at the second. Most of the changes here are meant to help you tank. The two new Actives aren't perfect; we had some bigger plans and ran into tech issues in doing what we wanted. Hoping they'll at least be helpful, and we can tweak numbers until they are.


Commanding Presence's hate doubles to 100/200/300%
Stand Against the Tide's extra hate jumps to 50% per stack (250% at full stacks, was 100%)
Stand Against the Tide's extra hate now applies to missile weapon damage and magic damage as well (was previously melee-only)
Divine Energy Resistance can now be cast directly on allies (instead of only yourself)
Ward Against Evil's light damage scales with 400% of the higher of Melee and Ranged Power
Rank 3 of Ward Against Evil now also grants you immunity to the Mind Control effects of Evil creatures.
You can now use Undying Vanguard while Crowd-Controlled and/or Helpless
Undying Vanguard's Temporary HP now last for 30 seconds.
NEW: T4: Draw them Out: Melee Attack: +3[w]. This attack adds 300 Hate for the user to creatures it hits on top of its normal damage. 6 second cooldown. (1 Rank, 1AP)
NEW: T6: Celestial Mandate: Melee Attack: +5[w]. This attack adds 2000 Hate for the user to creatures it hits on top of its normal damage. 6 second cooldown. (1 Rank, 1AP)




Please include the following for the Unyielding Sentinel pass.

Make Legendary Shield Mastery cost a single rank for 2EP for the full benefit based on the best feat the player has.
Reduce the cost of Intolerant Blows to 1 rank and change the type of Threat from Sacred to Untyped.
Reduce the cost of Brace for Impact to 1 EDP per rank.
Reduce the cost of Light the Dark to 1 EDP.
Reduce the cost of Spark of Life to 1 EDP.
Reduce the cost of Purify Weapons to 1 EDP.
Reduce the cost of Anoint Weapons to 1 EDP.




Divine Crusader:
This is also a Pretty Good tree in its current form, but lacks a little scaling and punch. In adding punch, we wanted to give some solid bonuses for Divine characters in here; you can get access to some alternative Favored Weapons, and then really make them shine if you've got a lot of Divine levels. We think Warpriests and War Souls will shine in here, along with Paladins once KOTC gets revamped later this year.


Castigation's damage now works on bosses as listed
Castigation now grants its listed Melee Power
No Regret now grants its listed Melee Power
Strike Down's tooltip now correctly says it deals Light damage
Strike Down's Light damage now scales with 200% Melee Power
Confront Any Foe now adds +3[w]
Confront Any Foe's Light damage now scales with 300% Melee Power
Smite the Wicked's Light damage is now 100 against Evil creatures and 100 against Undead creatures. Evil Undead creatures take both.
Smite the Wicked's Light damage now scales with 200% Melee Power.
Smite the Wicked now destroys Undead and Evil Outsiders under 1500 HP on a Vorpal.
Stand and be Judged now has a DC of 10+Wisdom Modifier+Character Level+Stunning Bonuses (We also made it faster & more reliable to cast a few Updates ago)
Celestial Bombardment now only has 1 rank, that does what the old Rank 3 did.
Celestial Bombardment now costs 20SP.
Celestial Bombardment now takes the Enlarge, Maximize, Empower, Intensify, Embolden, and Quicken Metamagics.
Celestial Bombardment is now significantly quicker to cast.
Moved Celestial Champion one spot left, to the middle of T5, it just feels better there.
Celestial Champion's Doublestrike and Doubleshot are now Sacred-typed.
NEW: T4: The Book of War: (Multiselector): Pick one of the following to gain as a Favored Weapon: Longsword, Longbow, Morningstar, Greatsword (1 Rank, 1AP)
NEW: T6: The Book of War: Wrath of the Divine: While wielding a Favored Weapon in your Main Hand, you gain +1 to Hit and Damage for every 2 Religious Lore Feats you have with all equipped weapons and shields. (1 Rank, 1AP)


Please include the following during the Divine Crusader pass.

Change Consecration to be affected by the higher of Fire or Positive Spell Criticals and the higher of Fire or Positive Spell Power.
Change Consecration to be affected by Metamagic feats.
Change Sacred Ground to be affected by the higher of Fire or Positive Spell Criticals and the higher of Fire or Positive Spell Power.
Change Sacred Ground to be affected by Metamagic feats.

[Trippy]

Unyielding Sentinel
This Destiny was meant to do two things: Keep you alive and help you tank. It's decent at the first and not great at the second. Most of the changes here are meant to help you tank. The two new Actives aren't perfect; we had some bigger plans and ran into tech issues in doing what we wanted. Hoping they'll at least be helpful, and we can tweak numbers until they are.


Commanding Presence's hate doubles to 100/200/300%
Stand Against the Tide's extra hate jumps to 50% per stack (250% at full stacks, was 100%)
Stand Against the Tide's extra hate now applies to missile weapon damage and magic damage as well (was previously melee-only)
Divine Energy Resistance can now be cast directly on allies (instead of only yourself)
Ward Against Evil's light damage scales with 400% of the higher of Melee and Ranged Power
Rank 3 of Ward Against Evil now also grants you immunity to the Mind Control effects of Evil creatures.
You can now use Undying Vanguard while Crowd-Controlled and/or Helpless
Undying Vanguard's Temporary HP now last for 30 seconds.
NEW: T4: Draw them Out: Melee Attack: +3[w]. This attack adds 300 Hate for the user to creatures it hits on top of its normal damage. 6 second cooldown. (1 Rank, 1AP)
NEW: T6: Celestial Mandate: Melee Attack: +5[w]. This attack adds 2000 Hate for the user to creatures it hits on top of its normal damage. 6 second cooldown. (1 Rank, 1AP)



I feel Unyielding Sentinels problem is it is too expensive to buy the stuff to both keep you alive and help you tank (much less dabble in fun stuff in the tree). Maybe those bigger plans will address this, but with stuff being spread over three stances, costing two points or having three levels, it does not leave room.

of the 24 EDPs, 22 (or 24 if not a paladin) appear to be spent on basic tank stuff
3 Commanding Presence
3 Shield Prowess
3 Block Energy
3 Legendary Shield Mastery
2 Intolerant Blows (+2 Fanaticism if you do not already have Smite Evil)
3 Hardened
3 Strength of Vitality
2 Undying Vanguard

Leaving little to no room for Brace for Impact (4 points), Spark of Life (2), *new* Ward Against Evil (3) for keeping you aliveness without eating up inventory slots.
Or room for Endless Smiting (3), *new* Draw them Out (1), *new* Celestial Mandate (1) for keeping aggro-ness

Ideally we should be able to get all of them, or most then have a few points left to pick from the fun stuff like the LoH related abilities or DER. While on the other side a non-tank grinding though the tree should be able to spend almost all of the 24 points on fun stuff with little or none wasted on just tankyness. (I think such a build right now is around 19ish points which sounds pretty close to good, blowing 4 points on more Con isn't the end of the world.)

So suggestion wise, either reduce the cost of the basic tank abilities from 22-24 to around ~16 or combine abilities so all the ones that currently only keep you alive also include aggro or fun secondary effects. There is some of this with the Smite Evil related stuff and then new Ward Against Evil, but Hardened, Strength of Vitality, and Shield Prowess could all use secondary bonuses.

[Gemini-Dragon357]

Unyielding Sentinel

Your proposed changes look really good. But there are a few enhancements that are not really worth the cost.

Brace for Impact - Currently this is 2 ranks and 2 points per rank and grants a total of +2 to all saves and 40% fort. It's very expensive for a tier 1 enhancement. Other destinies have similar save enhancements that gives +6 to 1 save, +6 to a skill and in Magister's case no fail on a one, all for 3 points. I would recommend either decreasing the point cost to two or adding something, maybe a bonus to balance.

Fanaticism - This adds 1d6 alignment damage while Unbreakable stance is active. Any chance of increasing this to say 5d6, or scaling it with melee power? It's nice having enhancement modify the stances, but 1d6 damage isn't much of anything.

Anoint Weapon - Same problem as Fanaticism but worse. You must spend 2 points to gain 2d6 damage vs evil targets which only works while in Stand Against the Tide. And unlike Fanaticism this enhancement grants no other bonuses and it's a tier 5 so it has really tough competition. Perhaps it could be rolled into Purify Weapon, its pre-req.

Here is an idea going along with the theme of the two new enhancements you guys put out:

T6: Channeled Smiting: (cooldown 60 seconds) Expand a use of smite evil and for 20 seconds you gain +1 Critical Damage Multiplier and attacks add 500 Hate for the user to creatures it hits on top of its normal damage.

[J-mann]

This should be fixed on live right now. If you find that it's still getting tripped up, please let me know :)

Could we get it to apply evocation bonuses to its dc? Even with a 60 stat mod (which im not sure is possible with wisdom) its only a 100 dc vs a fort save.... really quite low. Please add evo dcs to the formula.

[J-mann]

Mentioned it above but I think its worth repeating...

I really like the idea of Favored Weapons. But until there's actually a reason TO wield Favored Weapons other than Grace/Knowledge of Battle, I see very little reason to spend so much time expanding what's Favored.

All of Warpriest's FW-based attacks are either lackluster or too expensive for what they give you. And that's the ONLY thing wielding a FW gives you right now. Maybe you have plans coming up for this with the KotC revamp - I would fully expect that you did - but I think even then FW needs some more systemic improvement to make them attractive enough to take over meta weapons.

EDs would be a good place to introduce some of these mechanics - substantial bonuses or special abilities while wielding a FW, enough that you'd want to use, e.g., an Olladra Sickle over a Khopesh or KT Longsword.

Warpriest is still pretty much a trash tier tree. I have not seen a single person using warpriest for a primary tree since it was revamped, that should tell SSG how bad it is. Of course they could have just listened to feedback and known that but w/e. DC is looking better now, but I dont think I would ever pick it over LD or SD in its current iteration, it needs more umph still. I recommend some more MP/RP in the cores and maybe a revamp on Zeal as it still feels rather iffy, but that might just be my innate dislike of long cd abilities talking (the too good to use effect). Of course the aura actually working right and hitting all mobs in range rather than just 1 might help as well, but either way I still cannot see a reason for a melee divine to take this tree over LD, it still needs a little something.

[Tist]

People mainly used it to solo raids. You cannot cake in a raid. It needed nerfed as it was allowing players to do things they shouldn’t.

So make it non functional in raids, quest only, and aside from that fix it so it doesn't consume a charge if it fails, and take the charging up aspect away. Already pointed out the functionality can't be considered unfair if you are fine selling cakes that do the same thing.

No no, burn the whole barn down since the door got a hole in it. Screw it just take off and nuke the site from orbit. This reaction fits the original definition of knee jerk swinging the nerf bat.

[Aelonwy]

I have 3 general issues that I think would change epic destinies for the better:

(1) expand the +1 stat bonuses to all 6 stats.
This enables toon that the destines are not build for to still use that destiny to some effect. It will make leveling off destinies slightly less painful. In addition it increases the different character builds available to take advantage of a destiny like this. Since destinies are designed to be used by many different builds this will only increase the diversity available.

(2) reduce the cost of +1 stats bonuses to 1 AP.
When Epic destinies where reduces most stats maxed out at ~60-70. Today the max is well over 130 for some stats. Thus the value of increasing stats has reduced, with the exception of characters who are defined by abilities on the d20 scale (like DC's). In addition since you are re-vamping and improving the existing destinies this will increase the number of action points stat hungry characters have to spend into the new toys and make for a more enjoyable experience.

Totally agree with the above. If destinies are supposed to be divorced from any particular class and instead synergize with a particular play-style then having the stat bonuses be generic would be best. You want people to play with their destiny abilities but those that absolutely depend on making a particular DC are going to ignore anything that does NOT improve their chances of success and at 2 destiny points per stat that occupies half of their destiny choices.

[Gemini-Dragon357]

Exalted Angel

1) As others have pointed out it takes 9 points for Exalted Angel to get Endless Faith. This is an easy T1 twist for many non-Exalted Angel casters and Exalted Angel users typically pass on it because of its crazy point cost. It would be great if Endless Faith lost its 2 requirements and simply cost 1 point per rank.

2) Activating Reborn in Light also activates Astral Vibrance. For the 2 minutes Reborn in Light is in effect Astral Vibrance costs 0 SP. However when Reborn ends, Astral Vibrance doesn't turn off. Many players are caught off guard and before they know it Astral Vibrance used up quite a bit of their spell points. It would be great if Astral Vibrance turned off when Reborn ended to avoid having to turn it off manually and prevent accidental SP loss. (It goes without mentioning that Astral Vibrance does very little damage for its SP cost, its an ability no one EVER uses.)

3) Many of the other spells/spell like abilities in other trees are gaining tactics DC bonuses or spell school bonuses. The spells in EA should get spell school bonuses as well. Soundburst is unusable at cap. It's impossible to get the DC to a reasonable level. Avenging Light, Sun Bolt and Divine Wraith should get school bonuses as well, just like Draconic's SLAs. Sun Bolt has a reflex saving and currently it is mostly useless against monster is evasion because the DC is so low without school bonuses.

4) Turn Undead doesn't have much support in the epic levels. Crusader has a regen T1 enhancement and you recently started to add some updated Turn Undead bonuses to items at cap, but the ability has huge usability issues in epic levels especially low epics. There is an empty spot in EA tree at Tiers 2, 5, and 6. Maybe a +2/4/6 to maximum Hit Dice enhancement could work in one of those places? or some other Turn Undead bonus?

5) The boost to DCs is Magister is great. For a long time many arcanes played in EA for the innate +3 DC in EA's core. But giving Magister 6 DC more than Exalted Angel is just going to cause the reverse problem. You have two kinds of Spell DC players in the game: Divines and Arcanes. With a gap this big in the other direction most divines are going to be running Magister.

There is an empty spot in T5 of Exalted Angel, please put a +1/2/3 spell DC enhancement there, even if it is just for one spell school (necromancy), similar to how Magister is getting +3 DCs at T5. It will keep EA on somewhat more equal footing with Magister and would give divines a reason to play in a divine destiny. Even with 3 extra DCs in the 5th tier, Magisters players would still have a higher possible DC bonus, it just won't be quite as stark.

In short, with the current plan of no changes to EA and plenty of buffs to other casting destinies, many divine casters are going to be playing in the arcane sphere destinies. Draconic is getting SLAs with usable DCs and spell crit damage boost which will attract DPS casting divines and Magister is getting a large DC boost which will attract most of the DC casting divines.

[DaviMOC]

Hey guys, Steel and Lyn.

I was at first sight very happy with this:

"NEW: T4: The Book of War: (Multiselector): Pick one of the following to gain as a Favored Weapon: Longsword, Longbow, Morningstar, Greatsword (1 Rank, 1AP)",

However i started to think about the possibilities and realized its actually very bad. Let us consider a Paladin/FVS/Cleric planning to use for example the greatsword. He will need to level trough 1-20 with a different weapon or style( going spellcasting/single weapon/ 2wf/ weapon&shield) with maybe zero deity favor on the weapon and stye he chooses to take place of that GSword until he hits 20.

Not every cleric/fvs can use martial weapons. If the cleric chooses war domain for this purpose or takes a feat for this he will be in a melee domain with half his warpriest tree wasted during the first 20 lvls. Similar issues applys to FVS. Paladins may be the less penalized ones on this case and its the one that benefits less from this addition.

Please consider it being part of KoTC, Warpriest, Warsoul trees. Those weapons( safe for the bow) already are iconic divine warrirors weapons that dont have favored weapons defined. If you guys insists on keeping it as an ED ability let it be a lower tier. A T4 twist is a very expensive price for those who would have any benefit from it to pay and may render any possible build around it not wroth as t4 are very precious already. Also while it opens possibilities its a very exclusive ability and the prices to pay for doing the basics of a build actuallys goes against the philosophy of adding more flexibility to EDs.


Edit.: Also consider that Divine Crusader for Melees already is points starving on every tier but even more on higher ones. We got Strike Down, Heavenly Presence, Celestial Champion that makes hard to keep a descent conscaration on the build. Adding new t4 and t6 makes it even more starving and locking out the tree full potential specially if anyone plans on an hybrid melee/caster cleric adding celestial bombardment/Stand and Be Judged to the math.

PS.: Please consider "fixing" strike down animation? Making you stop moving in an era that kiting is the main tanking techinique is a big issue.

[TitusOvid]

snip

Exalted Angel
This is a good tree, for those who can make use of the skills in it. We analyzed it and didn't see much that we thought merited major change, though we might try to loop back for some bugfixes before release. We did make a change to one skill for game balance reasons.

Reborn in Light no longer charges with Endless Ardor and Righteous Fervor; instead, it is once per Rest (keeps 10min cooldown).


snip

[/LIST]

For game balance reasons ... It is not overly powerful with the long cooldown and is only used to prevent a party wipe as a last effort. So what is unbalanced here?
I suppose the real reason is, you don't like solo Strahd completions or something similiar. That is really a niche use for this ability and you have to give up better trees for that ability. It is only taken to see if it is possible to solo something like Strahd and not to exploit it to break the game. There is no benefit in it, just bragging rights. And if people suffer through a solo Strahd completion, they have every right to brag, imo.
So at least be truthful and give us a valid reason.

Cheers,
Titus.

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

Here's what you have to work with to base such on!

"The Sovereign of Forge and Flame Onatar is revered by smiths, craftsmen, artificers, dwarves and even a small portion of warforged." Click for source! (https://eberron.fandom.com/wiki/Onatar)

How to theoretically achieve this!

1-Anything in the Dvine Crusader Tree that offers positive healing based benefits (Such as spellpower, healing amp, or an SLA) allow that to also offer the repair variation or at least repair compatibility.

2-Add Dwarven War Axes and Bastard Swords to favored weapons options

3-Grant Artificers who were able to take an Artificer capstone enhancement Onatar as a deity (Meaning all 20 base levels taken in Artificer class, you know.... to reward said artificers for their devotion to a class that is by lore known to follow Onatar)

4-Give artificers 2 religious lore feats per level gained in Divine Crusader Tree (You could do this for anyone really as having some religious lore knowledge would be necessary when serving as a divine crusader as to ensure you do not offend whatever deity you are in service of as a Crusader).

5-Include Intelligence enhancements in Tree for Artificers.

6-Allow artificers to use their intelligence stat for wisdom based saves (Will saves)

7-Create some sort of enhancement that allows artificers to use their fire spellpower and spell critical chance (Because fire is heavily related to Onatar) for use in determining the scaling for all of their runearms (Because runearms are a weapon used specifically by Artificers, Onatar deals in weapons, and Artificers are by lore known for revering Onatar).

And Voila, with this Melee artificers would officially no longer be homeless in Epic Destiny trees!

Editing is done, no more further editing is required!

[darknoobslayer]

Any update on possible Exalted Angel changes?

[Avocado]

US changes: Can we get some love for pure hate tanks that just intimate and turtle which is really the only viable way to tank harder content. If you want to be a really beefy high reaper tank you need to dump all dps and go max in of prr/mrr/hp/ac/dodge. I dont think you understand that pure tanks dont do dps to hold aggro, they just intimidate. IDK if thats the way you want it but thats the way it is. My tank hits for about 50 damage at 30 on elite. 1000% threat would still make that 500 a hit. This is not enough damage to compensate for people hit for 3k a pop. As a tank i often can hold agro with intim but lose it as soon someone does some sort of burst dps like adrenaline slayer or shuriken attacks. Tanks should not be able to lose aggro to that. Gearing for tank is very challenging because intimate gear so sparse. You cant wear a LGS cha skills item if you want to keep LGS opposition hp bonus. Compound that with mobs that have high wisdom or charisma stats and you cant intim them with something that is reasonably achievable (like 150 intim wont work). That being said, more intimidate in the tree would be a welcome change like +20 or something. Also, tanks cant intim certain constructs and undead, can you add a tier ability that allows us to intim monsters that cant be influenced?

NEW: T4: Draw them Out: Melee Attack: +3[w]. This attack adds 300 Hate for the user to creatures it hits on top of its normal damage. 6 second cooldown. (1 Rank, 1AP)
NEW: T6: Celestial Mandate: Melee Attack: +5[w]. This attack adds 2000 Hate for the user to creatures it hits on top of its normal damage. 6 second cooldown. (1 Rank, 1AP)

What is 2000 or 300 hate. Percent hate or 2000 static number hate? What does that mean? What would static 2000 hate actually mean?

AGAIN PLEASE ADD MORE INTIMIDATE TO US FOR HATE TANKS.

[Ultramaetche1]

Confront Any Foe now adds +3[w]
Confront Any Foe's Light damage now scales with 300% Melee Power



Would it also be possible to make this ability trigger the “when you use a Turn Undead” abilities from cleric domains? Because right now it doesn’t.

[LeoLionxxx]

Some additional changes to EA would be welcome. I should probobly read though what everyone else has said, but 5 pages is a lot.

The big, blinding thing to alter is the big, blinding vfx on the Ascendance capstone ability. Something more subtle, like transparent angle wings, might be more appropriate; bonus points if they flap at certain times, like casting a spell or jumping.

As I understand it, the Ascendance "Angelic Form" is a major change. I wonder if it should be a permanent one, instead of a 2 minute buff. Else, perhaps it could have a shorter duration and pack more of a punch, to make it more of an "Epic Moment", than an "Epic 2 minutes".
--

The other big thing I don't like in this tree is the "Astral Vibrance" toggle, due to it draining SP every 2 seconds. If I'm waiting around for a party member, I don't want to have to micromanage this buff by toggling it off, and then on again when I want it.

If nothing else, please at least change the wording to be less scary; " Having this ability active costs 1 sp every 2 seconds, increasing by 1 every 2 seconds", which says to me that the sp drain/second grows the longer you have it on!
--

Would it be possible to make "Reborn in light" only usable while dead? It's frustrating when you accidentally click it and loose that safety net, especially now that it's once per rest.
--

Someone made a fair point about the "Endless Faith" being very expensive to get, since you have to get the 2 pre-requisites as well, yet for toons in any other ED, it's a cheap twist. I suggest the pre-requisite be removed and/or the cost of these 3 reduced. That would free Angels up to spend points on enhancements that are more fun than simple spellpower.

[SirValentine]

All these trees add to Cleric/Paladin(/FvS) caster level in their cores. Do they also add to Turn Undead level? If not, they should.

Additionally, at least one should have a purchased ability that improves Turn Undead. Turn Undead doesn't need any help in Heroic; it needs it exactly where Epic Destinies come into play, in Epic.

[grudgebear]

NEW: T6: The Book of War: Wrath of the Divine: While wielding a Favored Weapon in your Main Hand, you gain +1 to Hit and Damage for every 2 Religious Lore Feats you have with all equipped weapons and shields. (1 Rank, 1AP)

Please remove this restriction based on religious lore feats and limit this to just while wielding Favored Weapon in your Main Hand. Or just lower the bonus if you don't have these feats.

This will open up Divine Crusader for other melee classes, especially for fighters. Kensai's and vanguards are not to be seen in and high endgame content. Monks, Rangers have means to recover themselves from battles and Fighter just simply does not.

This divine epic destiny can be a strong contender against Legendary Dreadnought.


P.S. However I really appreciate the effort revamping Divine Crusader tree and fixing it's bugs.

[LucidLTS]

Exalted Angel
This is a good tree, for those who can make use of the skills in it. We analyzed it and didn't see much that we thought merited major change, though we might try to loop back for some bugfixes before release. We did make a change to one skill for game balance reasons.

Reborn in Light no longer charges with Endless Ardor and Righteous Fervor; instead, it is once per Rest (keeps 10min cooldown).


The 10 minute cool down, and *only* the 10 minute cool down, is enough of a limitation on Reborn in Light. If you want to nerf it, take away some of the extras, but DO NOT limit it to once per rest.

First, something that allows you to recover from a TPK is fundamentally different from something that lets you quickly dispatch an opponent. Quickly defeating an opponent takes you from the position of strength (characters usually defeat opponents) to a position of more strength (defeating them faster), reversing a TPK takes you from a position of weakness (you're all dead) to a more equal footing (sure you're a character, but now you have death penalty, worn gear, no buffs, etc).If you've already had a TPK, you've learned your lesson, suffered your pain, etc. This doesn't remove the challenge, there's already a surfeit of challenge or we wouldn't have had the TPK to begin with. Sitting around as a bunch of soul stones waiting for the 10 minute timer to expire is already super painful, but it lets you salvage the 2 hours your group has just invested in this raid.

Second, at T6, it's already super expensive to get access to - you can't just dump in a few points and add the twist in your 4th slot, and if you're in EA the 9 points it takes to get a decent Endless Ardor keeps you from taking much worthwhile elsewhere in the tree. Plus it's not that great tree. Letting RiL be unusually powerful, especially in a way that is leveling the field not tipping it further to a player's already considerable advantage, is appropriate.

Third, unless and until you successfully limit lag wipes to once per rest, removing the safety valve that lets us recover from them as often as they may occur is a terrible idea.

As others have suggested, adding another T6 might be a viable alternative - I'd support the second T6 that let them regenerate, or even better split all the other considerable benefits into a second T6 and leave RiL just a self/friend resurrection on 10 minute cool down.

[darknoobslayer]

Along with getting full health could we get some spell points to? Also is there any chance of reducing the cost of 2 AP enhancements to 1 AP in the trees?

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

Divine Crusader:
This is also a Pretty Good tree in its current form, but lacks a little scaling and punch. In adding punch, we wanted to give some solid bonuses for Divine characters in here; you can get access to some alternative Favored Weapons, and then really make them shine if you've got a lot of Divine levels. We think Warpriests and War Souls will shine in here, along with Paladins once KOTC gets revamped later this year.


Castigation's damage now works on bosses as listed
Castigation now grants its listed Melee Power
No Regret now grants its listed Melee Power
Strike Down's tooltip now correctly says it deals Light damage
Strike Down's Light damage now scales with 200% Melee Power
Confront Any Foe now adds +3[w]
Confront Any Foe's Light damage now scales with 300% Melee Power
Smite the Wicked's Light damage is now 100 against Evil creatures and 100 against Undead creatures. Evil Undead creatures take both.
Smite the Wicked's Light damage now scales with 200% Melee Power.
Smite the Wicked now destroys Undead and Evil Outsiders under 1500 HP on a Vorpal.
Stand and be Judged now has a DC of 10+Wisdom Modifier+Character Level+Stunning Bonuses (We also made it faster & more reliable to cast a few Updates ago)
Celestial Bombardment now only has 1 rank, that does what the old Rank 3 did.
Celestial Bombardment now costs 20SP.
Celestial Bombardment now takes the Enlarge, Maximize, Empower, Intensify, Embolden, and Quicken Metamagics.
Celestial Bombardment is now significantly quicker to cast.
Moved Celestial Champion one spot left, to the middle of T5, it just feels better there.
Celestial Champion's Doublestrike and Doubleshot are now Sacred-typed.
NEW: T4: The Book of War: (Multiselector): Pick one of the following to gain as a Favored Weapon: Longsword, Longbow, Morningstar, Greatsword (1 Rank, 1AP)
NEW: T6: The Book of War: Wrath of the Divine: While wielding a Favored Weapon in your Main Hand, you gain +1 to Hit and Damage for every 2 Religious Lore Feats you have with all equipped weapons and shields. (1 Rank, 1AP)


Fixed it :)


Each core ability now grants two religious lore feats for a maximum of +10 religious lore feats
Artificers using this tree are considered to have stepped up from revering Onatar, to worshiping him and gain Warhammers as a favored weapon.
Castigation's damage now works on bosses as listed
Castigation now grants its listed Melee Power
No Regret now grants its listed Melee Power
Strike Down's tooltip now correctly says it deals Light damage
Strike Down's Light damage now scales with 200% Melee Power
Confront Any Foe now adds +3[w]
Confront Any Foe's Light damage now scales with 300% Melee Power
Smite the Wicked's Light damage is now 100 against Evil creatures and 100 against Undead creatures. Evil Undead creatures take both.
Smite the Wicked's Light damage now scales with 200% Melee Power.
Smite the Wicked now destroys Undead and Evil Outsiders under 1500 HP on a Vorpal.
Stand and be Judged now has a DC of 10+Wisdom Modifier+Character Level+Stunning Bonuses (We also made it faster & more reliable to cast a few Updates ago)
Celestial Bombardment now only has 1 rank, that does what the old Rank 3 did.
Celestial Bombardment now costs 20SP.
Celestial Bombardment now takes the Enlarge, Maximize, Empower, Intensify, Embolden, and Quicken Metamagics.
Celestial Bombardment is now significantly quicker to cast.
Moved Celestial Champion one spot left, to the middle of T5, it just feels better there.
Celestial Champion's Doublestrike and Doubleshot are now Sacred-typed.
NEW: T4: The Book of War: (Multiselector): Pick one of the following to gain as a Favored Weapon: Longsword, Longbow, Morningstar, Greatsword, Bastard Sword, Dwarven War Axe (1 Rank, 1AP)
NEW: T6: The Book of War: Wrath of the Divine: While wielding a Favored Weapon in your Main Hand, you gain +1 to Hit and Damage for every 2 Religious Lore Feats you have with all equipped weapons and shields. (1 Rank, 1AP)

[BandVP]

I see why it as nerfed, and it makes sense. Nowadays if you're making an endgame build, you always do for Drednaught. The 50% helpless damage is really beneficial when you're doing reapers. However, taking away 35% is far too much in my opinion. I personally think lowering it down to 25% to 30% is good, as it still keeps Drednaught a strong hitter, whereas with 15% you have little to no difference.

[axel15810]

Would love to see some improvements to Crusader's aura and debuffing. And maybe a new capstone that isn't just a worse DPS boosting alternative to master's blitz. Or maybe make crusade's buff more flexible/less restricted to just a fixed area. I feel like the tree needs more things in the buff/debuff area, more things other than just more melee power and damage, to help it stand out from just being a worse Legendary Dreadnaught for so many builds.

The new increases/fixes to DPS in the tree are nice but it needs the debuffs/buffs to be better to make it more unique and more worth using in an off-DPS kind of role as a KotC paladin or Warpriest melee cleric/melee FVS would want to fill. (Also as a side note please revisit warpriest at some point to make it worth using as a primary tree, it isn't currently IMO, it needs love. Falconry is a better option than Warpriest in pretty much every relevant way.)

The DPS for obvious reasons won't and shouldn't surpass dreadnaught's so there really should be some super attractive buffs/debuffs here to make the tree shine. That would interest me in using it as a primary tree. Parties should really value the debuffs and/or buffs that Crusader brings and currently they just don't. Aura is really meh, and crusade is too restrictive because of the fixed area.

[Hobgoblin]

Not sure if it has been mentioned, but can u fix the cure mass sla? It won't cast if u dont have yourself targeted

[Bluenoser]

Similar to what others said about unhitching endless faith from pos and rad spellpower, but I'd go a step further: an extra 30 spellpower when you hit epics is just OK, and certainly not worth 3 AP. I would eliminate the tiers of POS and RAD and just make each 30 points for 1 AP, and reduce the endless faith to only 1 or 2 tiers (again, separate from the spellpowers). It's ridiculous to have to spend 11 points in tier 1 just to get some bread and butter divine casting power and a stat point.

[Don1966]

Hello! This is an early look at the Epic Destiny Pass currently slated for Update 43. (The second Sharn raid is coming before this, so there's still a bit of time before this reaches Lamannia). A few notes about this pass, before we get to details:

We had a few primary goals in the Epic Destiny pass, compounded by a very slim time-frame of 3 weeks for principal changes.

First and foremost, try to put each Destiny in a place where it's worth using for at least some builds.
Fix bugs and remove things that hinder fun or usability

You'll notice that every Epic Moment that required you to do weird things to charge it up no longer requires that.


Improve the ability for people to play in Destinies that match their Archetype (ranged characters in Shiradi, etc) without significantly hindering the current ability for people to play in Destinies that don't (casters in Shiradi, etc)


Like we said above, the timeframe was slim. We didn't hit everything we would have liked to, and there are still abilities within individual Destinies that still probably aren't worth taking. We're listening for feedback here, but our ability to act on it is similarly time-restricted; we're unlikely to further revamp whole trees or add completely new skills at this time, but we may be able to make number tweaks and fix outstanding bugs.

That said, this is the thread for Divine Sphere Destinies, so let's dive in. Be sure to check out the other Sphere threads when you're done, as well as the topic on new Epic Past Lives coming with these changes.


Divine Crusader:
This is also a Pretty Good tree in its current form, but lacks a little scaling and punch. In adding punch, we wanted to give some solid bonuses for Divine characters in here; you can get access to some alternative Favored Weapons, and then really make them shine if you've got a lot of Divine levels. We think Warpriests and War Souls will shine in here, along with Paladins once KOTC gets revamped later this year.


NEW: T6: The Book of War: Wrath of the Divine: While wielding a Favored Weapon in your Main Hand, you gain +1 to Hit and Damage for every 2 Religious Lore Feats you have with all equipped weapons and shields. (1 Rank, 1AP)



how tricky would it be to make this a multi selector and have +1 melee power for every Religious Lore Feats you have as a choice?

[ElweSulk]

Divine Crusader:

NEW: T4: The Book of War: (Multiselector): Pick one of the following to gain as a Favored Weapon: Longsword, Longbow, Morningstar, Greatsword (1 Rank, 1AP)
NEW: T6: The Book of War: Wrath of the Divine: While wielding a Favored Weapon in your Main Hand, you gain +1 to Hit and Damage for every 2 Religious Lore Feats you have with all equipped weapons and shields. (1 Rank, 1AP)


T4: Please extend this list with more weapons. As pointed out earlier in this thread; Dagger is missing; but please add more choices too.

T6: "Cleric, Favored Soul, Paladin receive this feat at every level. Bard received this feat at level 1, 3, 5, 7, 9 ,11, 13 ,15, 17, 19.", and add "+1 to Hit and Damage for every 2 Religious Lore Feats". This basically means +10 for cleric, FS, Paladin, and +5 for Bard. This locks out other classes. You specifically open up other destinies with removing requirements (example: LD no longer need power attack and cleave). Please reconsider this so it's more attractive to other classes too.

[Paladin_of_Power]

Divine Crusader:


Would have liked to see some buffs to Turn Undead. HD, Max HD, Total HD you get the idea.
Would have liked to see something to buff the Holy Retribution from KoTC. It runs out of steam. Increase the HP limit of the destroyed proc. Possibly tie it into Smite the Wicked somehow. As that is similar.
Speaking of, would like an option to increase the HP limit of Smite the Wicked above the new 1500hp limit. More tiers?
Since Consecration creates holy ground, how about adding a proc to cause a Neg level to Evil foes per tick? Similar concept to a Good aligned character equipping certain Evil equipment (causes a neg level). Perhaps 5% chance each tier?
Bane of Undeath needs more cowbell fow anyone to consider taking it. Undead Bane 2d6 is pretty weak in Epics. I'd be surprised if anyone took this one to gain Turn Undead feat. Would like to see Epic Undead bane instead, +8 hit/dmg and extra 6d6 points of damage against Undead.
Would like to see some Positive Spellpower built into this Destiny. Possibly X per core?
Really like The Book of War items. Flavorful, very useful, thematic.
Good Job on Celestial Bombardment ! Wish the save had a 'higher of' option to be more Paladin friendly (STR or CON + Tactical DC) but.... I understand as it is.
Does No Remorse even work? "Whenever an enemy who was recently affected by your Aura of Purification is slain, nearby allies are healed for Positive Energy equal to the CR of the slain enemy."
"+25 Spell Points, +10 hit Points" This bonus appears three times in the cores. The numbers look a bit light for an Epic level benefit.

[john0]

With new gear setup it is easy to have a near 100% doublestrike permanent uptime. Add in the 10% doublestrike change from DC and 30% reaper doublestike boost and then pop zeal 50% and you get another extra 90%. So you end up with a 190% doublestrike... could we change doublestrike to be like doubleshot so that going over 100% has actual use?

[ElweSulk]

Divine Crusader:


Castigation's damage now works on bosses as listed
Castigation now grants its listed Melee Power


I'm pretty sure the damage from this one doesn't work in general. Please test it properly vs normal/champion/orange/red/purple mobs. I currently see no damage on them at all from this one.

Other thing: Please change "Bane of Undeath" (tier 1) to cost 1 AP. And "Endless Turning": remove requirements, and grant turn undead also if don't have.

[ElweSulk]

With new gear setup it is easy to have a near 100% doublestrike permanent uptime. Add in the 10% doublestrike change from DC and 30% reaper doublestike boost and then pop zeal 50% and you get another extra 90%. So you end up with a 190% doublestrike... could we change doublestrike to be like doubleshot so that going over 100% has actual use?

Or atleast make Zeal temporary benefit from above 100% just like doubleshot. This temporary could be either: a) if above 100%: zeal% is what can be above 100%, or b) while zeal is running: total % is just like doubleshot. Example: a) 120+zeal (50; decreasing as usual) = 100+50=150 (and then decreasing), b) 120+zeal = 120+50=170 and decreasing as normal. In both cases: when zeal duration is finished: 100% cap again.

[ElweSulk]

I'm pretty sure the damage from this one doesn't work in general. Please test it properly vs normal/champion/orange/red/purple mobs. I currently see no damage on them at all from this one

I tested on low level kobolds now, and it seems like if the get purification stacks, they don't take damage from it... but if I'm close to them, the aura ticks for 1 pt of bane damage on them slowly. And it's not increased by number of stacks of purification on them.

So I'm pretty sure Castigation is broken.

[Grailhawk]

I tested on low level kobolds now, and it seems like if the get purification stacks, they don't take damage from it... but if I'm close to them, the aura ticks for 1 pt of bane damage on them slowly. And it's not increased by number of stacks of purification on them.

So I'm pretty sure Castigation is broken.

Test it on something with more hp, I used the cannon on the air ship I saw as the stacks grow the damage went up once the cannon had less than half health the damage goes down then capped at one till it dies . It's not stack% of Max hp but of current hp. So a low level kobold may have lost enough hp on the build up to never lose more than 1 hp per tick.

No idea if it's working on more than one target or what it's range is I tested this less than 3 months ago.

[ElweSulk]

Divine Crusader:


Castigation's damage now works on bosses as listed
Castigation now grants its listed Melee Power


I've done some more testing on "Castigation" and "Aura of Purification", and have found following:


Castigation: Seems to do it's % damage based on # of purification counters, but once enemy has less than 100 hp it only does 1hp damage no matter how many purification counters. bug?
Aura of Purification: Description says: "Every 3 Seconds While Active: Nearby enemies gain a stack of Purification". This is NOT the case. No matter the number of enemies, only one enemy gains counter from this aura. And it will be that enemy until it dies that gains counters. By the description: ALL enemies within aura range should get a counter. BUG! Please fix

[FlavoredSoul]

Any chance of the semi-common bug (usually notice it once every dungeon or so) that causes divine crusader to occasionally give stacks of the purification debuff to allies to be fixed?

It's really annoying when you get 3 or 4 stacks of -damage and - spell power just because you're near someone in divine crusader.

[cru121]

Any chance of the semi-common bug (usually notice it once every dungeon or so) that causes divine crusader to occasionally give stacks of the purification debuff to allies to be fixed?

It's really annoying when you get 3 or 4 stacks of -damage and - spell power just because you're near someone in divine crusader.

Yes, this happens. I suspect it might be related to
No Regret: Whenever an enemy who was recently affected by your Aura of Purification is slain, other nearby enemies gain 1 to 4 stacks of Purification.
Targeting allies instead of enemies.

[DougGlyndwyr]

Exalted Angel: Move Leap of Faith to the T2 spot.

[mikarddo]

Exalted Angel: Move Leap of Faith to the T2 spot.

Hell no. Leap of Faith should definitely not be twistable.

[Syrophir]

Divine Crusader:
- Core 1, Aura of Purification: would having a melee power debuff per stack be better than a static attack damage reduction, it would at least scale and be similar to the negative spell power effect it also states to have?
(Can't wait to see all the fixes and changes for this tree!)

Exalted Angel:
- Hopefully the evocation/light blasting and soundburst SLAs get evocation bonuses applied to their DC.
- Core 3, Astral Vibrance: this needs some love, it is hardly ever worth using as it is now, and does it even scale with spell power?

[janave]

Be at Peace: Active Ability: (Cooldown 2 mins, 10sp) Target enemy is dazed for 1 minute, no save. Damage breaks this effect. Endless Ardor and Righteous Fervor stacks are reset to zero.

This is weak even for a T1 to be honest. A daze effect is among the weakest CC options regardless of the nice long duration. It would be nice if it was replaced.

I would:
- move Peace to the empty t2 slot, adjust the cooldown and duration if possible and make it cost 1pt to get.
- move Sunbolt SLA to t5
- a nice new T6 "epic moment" would be cool

[vryxnr]

There are two things I wish to mention (which have been mentioned by others as well).

1) PLEASE take a look at Astral Vibrance. Not only is it never used (intentionally. When it get activated via Reborn in Light I always turn it off right away if I remember), it's also bugged (as far as I can tell).

2) not thrilled about the proposed changes to Reborn in Light.

[ChocolateThunder]

We intentionally made this scale off of Religious Lore feats. That might mean this Destiny is better for people with a lot of Divine levels (...or Bard levels, I guess) than for people without that, and we're 100% OK with that.


Maybe throw in one or a couple of Bard/Swashbuckling weapons in the list of favored weapons then?

[Xalkyrion]

I would like to have sunburst to replace sun bolt as a strong t6 sla to Exalted Angel destiny

[mikarddo]

I would like to have sunburst to replace sun bolt as a strong t6 sla to Exalted Angel destiny

I fully agree.

[Wipey]

Fix the DCs and targetting of Soundburst. Requiring hard target makes it really impractical and hard to use, much like Fireball sla from sorc is clunky compared to spell version.

Agreed on removing spellpower requirements for Endless Faith.

And no, I don't want high level spell like Sunburst in there.

[Silverleafeon]

Renewal is totally in need of fixing.
First tick = zero, not sure last tick works either.
Great low cost healing in the past but with new damage threasholds not so great.
Sad to see it might overwrite hp songs....
Always been a problem and needs fixing.


Your hate calculations for tanking purposes should likely be increased ten fold.
Good tanks have trouble creating hate damage even will all item and effects available.


Astral vibrance should be removed from the game or replaced with anything even +1 to hit.
Astral vibrance should turn off when Ascendance expires.
(finished a series one time, went for a break after finishing out, came back with zero xp because used Ascendance in end fight and Astral Vibrance was still running - public regeneration vs astral vibrance = zero sp.


Body of Sun and Ascendance are both far too strong eyestrain and should be reduced graphically.



Not enough points in US to send on both hate (which is not strong enough) and defense (which is also important for tanks).
As I have mentioned many times in the past, Epic Destinies were design at level cap 25, and were likely intended to be raised as the level cap was raised.
We should have 40 points to spend (4 per epic level) if things were as they ought to be.
Getting from present state to ought to be might be interesting path, but many epic destinies would work more balanced if we had more points to spend.
Technically, we should only have 20 points to spend, but a kind developer fudged the system long ago to give us the iconic 24 points.
(I was there and read his remarks on the subject. - back in the day of rusted blades x100)

[Vooduspyce]

Unyielding Sentinel
This Destiny was meant to do two things: Keep you alive and help you tank. It's decent at the first and not great at the second. Most of the changes here are meant to help you tank. The two new Actives aren't perfect; we had some bigger plans and ran into tech issues in doing what we wanted. Hoping they'll at least be helpful, and we can tweak numbers until they are.


Commanding Presence's hate doubles to 100/200/300%
Stand Against the Tide's extra hate jumps to 50% per stack (250% at full stacks, was 100%)
Stand Against the Tide's extra hate now applies to missile weapon damage and magic damage as well (was previously melee-only)
Divine Energy Resistance can now be cast directly on allies (instead of only yourself)
Ward Against Evil's light damage scales with 400% of the higher of Melee and Ranged Power
Rank 3 of Ward Against Evil now also grants you immunity to the Mind Control effects of Evil creatures.
You can now use Undying Vanguard while Crowd-Controlled and/or Helpless
Undying Vanguard's Temporary HP now last for 30 seconds.
NEW: T4: Draw them Out: Melee Attack: +3[w]. This attack adds 300 Hate for the user to creatures it hits on top of its normal damage. 6 second cooldown. (1 Rank, 1AP)
NEW: T6: Celestial Mandate: Melee Attack: +5[w]. This attack adds 2000 Hate for the user to creatures it hits on top of its normal damage. 6 second cooldown. (1 Rank, 1AP)



would like to see Renewal modified so that the first tick of healing happen on spell cast instead of having to wait 2 seconds for the first tick.

[Silverleafeon]

I would suggest that the devs have some discussions about what sort of role they envision for tanks to be?


For example do you the devs want hate/intimidate to work most of the time and what sort of % of foes do you want thus to work in Epics?

Might be good to establish a "we don't have more than __% foes that are immune to hate/intimidate per dungeon inside your dungeon guidelines?


One could program a "hate immunity" override, much like Fatesinger gains a "fascinate immunity" override for Unyielding Sentinel epic Destiny?

[pretendcasualplayer]

Hello! This is an early look at the Epic Destiny Pass currently slated for Update 43. (The second Sharn raid is coming before this, so there's still a bit of time before this reaches Lamannia). A few notes about this pass, before we get to details:

We had a few primary goals in the Epic Destiny pass, compounded by a very slim time-frame of 3 weeks for principal changes.

First and foremost, try to put each Destiny in a place where it's worth using for at least some builds.
Fix bugs and remove things that hinder fun or usability

You'll notice that every Epic Moment that required you to do weird things to charge it up no longer requires that.


Improve the ability for people to play in Destinies that match their Archetype (ranged characters in Shiradi, etc) without significantly hindering the current ability for people to play in Destinies that don't (casters in Shiradi, etc)


Like we said above, the timeframe was slim. We didn't hit everything we would have liked to, and there are still abilities within individual Destinies that still probably aren't worth taking. We're listening for feedback here, but our ability to act on it is similarly time-restricted; we're unlikely to further revamp whole trees or add completely new skills at this time, but we may be able to make number tweaks and fix outstanding bugs.

That said, this is the thread for Divine Sphere Destinies, so let's dive in. Be sure to check out the other Sphere threads when you're done, as well as the topic on new Epic Past Lives coming with these changes.

Unyielding Sentinel
This Destiny was meant to do two things: Keep you alive and help you tank. It's decent at the first and not great at the second. Most of the changes here are meant to help you tank. The two new Actives aren't perfect; we had some bigger plans and ran into tech issues in doing what we wanted. Hoping they'll at least be helpful, and we can tweak numbers until they are.


Commanding Presence's hate doubles to 100/200/300%
Stand Against the Tide's extra hate jumps to 50% per stack (250% at full stacks, was 100%)
Stand Against the Tide's extra hate now applies to missile weapon damage and magic damage as well (was previously melee-only)
Divine Energy Resistance can now be cast directly on allies (instead of only yourself)
Ward Against Evil's light damage scales with 400% of the higher of Melee and Ranged Power
Rank 3 of Ward Against Evil now also grants you immunity to the Mind Control effects of Evil creatures.
You can now use Undying Vanguard while Crowd-Controlled and/or Helpless
Undying Vanguard's Temporary HP now last for 30 seconds.
NEW: T4: Draw them Out: Melee Attack: +3[w]. This attack adds 300 Hate for the user to creatures it hits on top of its normal damage. 6 second cooldown. (1 Rank, 1AP)
NEW: T6: Celestial Mandate: Melee Attack: +5[w]. This attack adds 2000 Hate for the user to creatures it hits on top of its normal damage. 6 second cooldown. (1 Rank, 1AP)


Exalted Angel
This is a good tree, for those who can make use of the skills in it. We analyzed it and didn't see much that we thought merited major change, though we might try to loop back for some bugfixes before release. We did make a change to one skill for game balance reasons.

Reborn in Light no longer charges with Endless Ardor and Righteous Fervor; instead, it is once per Rest (keeps 10min cooldown).


Divine Crusader:
This is also a Pretty Good tree in its current form, but lacks a little scaling and punch. In adding punch, we wanted to give some solid bonuses for Divine characters in here; you can get access to some alternative Favored Weapons, and then really make them shine if you've got a lot of Divine levels. We think Warpriests and War Souls will shine in here, along with Paladins once KOTC gets revamped later this year.


Castigation's damage now works on bosses as listed
Castigation now grants its listed Melee Power
No Regret now grants its listed Melee Power
Strike Down's tooltip now correctly says it deals Light damage
Strike Down's Light damage now scales with 200% Melee Power
Confront Any Foe now adds +3[w]
Confront Any Foe's Light damage now scales with 300% Melee Power
Smite the Wicked's Light damage is now 100 against Evil creatures and 100 against Undead creatures. Evil Undead creatures take both.
Smite the Wicked's Light damage now scales with 200% Melee Power.
Smite the Wicked now destroys Undead and Evil Outsiders under 1500 HP on a Vorpal.
Stand and be Judged now has a DC of 10+Wisdom Modifier+Character Level+Stunning Bonuses (We also made it faster & more reliable to cast a few Updates ago)
Celestial Bombardment now only has 1 rank, that does what the old Rank 3 did.
Celestial Bombardment now costs 20SP.
Celestial Bombardment now takes the Enlarge, Maximize, Empower, Intensify, Embolden, and Quicken Metamagics.
Celestial Bombardment is now significantly quicker to cast.
Moved Celestial Champion one spot left, to the middle of T5, it just feels better there.
Celestial Champion's Doublestrike and Doubleshot are now Sacred-typed.
NEW: T4: The Book of War: (Multiselector): Pick one of the following to gain as a Favored Weapon: Longsword, Longbow, Morningstar, Greatsword (1 Rank, 1AP)
NEW: T6: The Book of War: Wrath of the Divine: While wielding a Favored Weapon in your Main Hand, you gain +1 to Hit and Damage for every 2 Religious Lore Feats you have with all equipped weapons and shields. (1 Rank, 1AP)


In breaking my silence to comment on the Epic Destiny changes, let me also speak out on the EA viewpoint. If something is overpowered it makes sense to make it less so for balance. As someone who plays a lot of divine casters in end game content, Exalted Angel needs power upgrades rather than a nerf. I've personally been part of raids that would have failed without Reborn in Light in its current form so I strongly oppose this change. If we are taking away with one hand when it's not really needed, let's at least give something with the other.

As for what that looks like, how about starting with giving the Tier 6 Sun Bolt a reasonable cooldown? A Favored Soul with 2 Sun Bolts will not be overpowered in end game reaper even as secondary DPS when you have melee hitting for 6k+. If this is too much, how about upping the SLA spell point cost to compensate?

Another idea is remaking Avenging Light into something useful. Why don't we do something that scales better, like 1-6 light damage per CL?

[karatemack]

Exalted Angel
This is a good tree, for those who can make use of the skills in it. We analyzed it and didn't see much that we thought merited major change, though we might try to loop back for some bugfixes before release. We did make a change to one skill for game balance reasons.

Reborn in Light no longer charges with Endless Ardor and Righteous Fervor; instead, it is once per Rest (keeps 10min cooldown).



This seems to be in-line with the typical cycle of "we should change this ability because of how many people currently use it".

My suggestion would be to leave this AS IS... for now. See if the changes in the other trees are enough to entice players to play differently.

[Steelstar]

This seems to be in-line with the typical cycle of "we should change this ability because of how many people currently use it".

My suggestion would be to leave this AS IS... for now. See if the changes in the other trees are enough to entice players to play differently.

As we said earlier:



Sorry. There's only about two things completely locked in stone in this pass, and one of them is "Reborn needs to drop to once per Rest for balance reasons".


We've held off on making this necessary change for (literally) years, but now is the right time.

[karatemack]

As we said earlier:

We've held off on making this necessary change for (literally) years, but now is the right time.

The timing seems odd given the additions to the other trees which make them more attractive. Losing unlimited self-res won't stop those who solo R10 content from doing so, and while I see this change as positive for the game overall- it certainly isn't an urgent need. It would have been better to make this change after the effects of the changes to the other destinies were apparent. This way, requests to offset the negative changes to EA would be better informed by the shifts in game-play.

Hopefully you will keep your ears open to those currently seeking some positive offsets in EA because it is far from perfect. With the upcoming changes to Magister for DC casters, there really should be a draw for divines in EA which still makes it equally attractive once those changes are in place. Otherwise, it will likely be years until our requests for changes to EA are heard since motivation to "fix" it will be reduced once the nerf hammer has been applied.

[Phaaze]

NEW: T4: The Book of War: (Multiselector): Pick one of the following to gain as a Favored Weapon: Longsword, Longbow, Morningstar, Greatsword (1 Rank, 1AP)

Any way we can get bastard sword ANYWHERE even if it's not here?

https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Divinity,_the_Morninglord%27s_Goal

Currently there is a bastard sword that wants pally 20 which to have it's favoured wep you have to go Deep Gnome, Purple Dragon Knight, Shadar-kai or Aasimar Scourge and then use a +1 heart to go pure 20.

Seems weird.

Personally I would love the ability to worship any god I choose, not just the one from where I am born.
If playing a table top game, I travel to a new land and learn about their new god my DM should let me be able to choose to convert, Even if I have to spend feat changes to do it as I go to the church of helm and learn.

-my 2 cp

Edit: also a Suggestion change diety feats to 1 feat per faith and scale off of religous lore.

[Steelstar]

The timing seems odd given the additions to the other trees which make them more attractive. Losing unlimited self-res won't stop those who solo R10 content from doing so, and while I see this change as positive for the game overall- it certainly isn't an urgent need. It would have been better to make this change after the effects of the changes to the other destinies were apparent. This way, requests to offset the negative changes to EA would be better informed by the shifts in game-play.

Hopefully you will keep your ears open to those currently seeking some positive offsets in EA because it is far from perfect. With the upcoming changes to Magister for DC casters, there really should be a draw for divines in EA which still makes it equally attractive once those changes are in place. Otherwise, it will likely be years until our requests for changes to EA are heard since motivation to "fix" it will be reduced once the nerf hammer has been applied.

The current changes to Magister are in response to EA's current position as a much stronger Destiny for DC casters, and the new numbers are balanced with EA's current potential in mind.

Should EA keep being a better DC casting tree than Magister? How much better?

[draven1]

The current changes to Magister are in response to EA's current position as a much stronger Destiny for DC casters, and the new numbers are balanced with EA's current potential in mind.

Should EA keep being a better DC casting tree than Magister? How much better?

Do you know what you are doing? You are empowering already over-performing style, instakill spells.

EA core's passive 3DC should be removed, and don't add PASSIVE DC on magister core.
Instead, add more power for debuffing spells and enlarge meta magic shouldn't be applied on high skull(7+) for at least instakill spells.

[Steelstar]

Do you know what you are doing? You are empowering already over-performing style, instakill spells.

EA core's passive 3DC should be removed, and don't add PASSIVE DC on magister core.
Instead, add more power for debuffing spells and enlarge meta magic shouldn't be applied on high skull(7+) for at least instakill spells.

Yes, we know what we're doing here.

[draven1]

Yes, we know what we're doing here.

Didn't you realize most power-gamers are already on DC casters or wolves who is addicted to duped pots? Think why they are.

So, why do you empower already Over-performing style?

[Thar]

The current changes to Magister are in response to EA's current position as a much stronger Destiny for DC casters, and the new numbers are balanced with EA's current potential in mind.

Should EA keep being a better DC casting tree than Magister? How much better?

The DCs in magister that are posted are fine. That is really all the tree is good for. The arcane tempest was too low damage, too long cooldown and everything has 10% spell point reduction. There really isn't a good capstone abillity for the tree all it can do is boost DCs and spells from one school. yes summons are still garbage. sigils are still garbage. null magic has it's spots but overall meh.

EA givs heals, attack spell, DCs, abilities for CHR/WIS classes and more. A much more well rounded caster destiny than magister. If anything magister needs a bit of a bump on the top end effects to make someone want to take it. EA is fine as is.

[Thar]

Didn't you realize most power-gamers are already on DC casters or wolves who is addicted to duped pots? Think why they are.

So, why do you empower already Over-performing style?

it's only overperforming if you have every ability boost, spell DC boost and past life, triple, racial, epic completionist affecting the same. Not everyone has that. At that point, almost any build but Pally is good. You can't base the game on .1% of the players.

[draven1]

it's only overperforming if you have every ability boost, spell DC boost and past life, triple, racial, epic completionist affecting the same. Not everyone has that. At that point, almost any build but Pally is good. You can't base the game on .1% of the players.

It's not at all.

Proposed magister ED change would bring +9 more DC from current. That's far enough to make non completionist to level of current powergamer's DC.

It would be 'save free' DC for instakill spells and make other non-spell based DC skills more useless.

[Gemini-Dragon357]

The current changes to Magister are in response to EA's current position as a much stronger Destiny for DC casters, and the new numbers are balanced with EA's current potential in mind.

Should EA keep being a better DC casting tree than Magister? How much better?

They should have close to equal potential as DC casting trees. You’ve got two kinds of DC casters: divines and arcanes. Many arcane casters were running EA because it had +3 DC advantage over the other trees from an innate core enhancement. From what I read of the new Magister changes, the ED is gaining +9 untwistable DC. This will have an even bigger pull than the arcanes to EA for +3. FvS will go Cha for DCs and use Magister. Clerics, if they don’t switch to FvS, will probably use magister too.

With EA having 3 untwistable and Magister having 9. Giving EA a new T5 that adds +1/2/3 to evo or necro would help balance things a bit. Or removing 3 from Magister. Either way even with this change Magister will still have a higher DC potential.

[janave]

They should have close to equal potential as DC casting trees. You’ve got two kinds of DC casters: divines and arcanes. Many arcane casters were running EA because it had +3 DC advantage over the other trees from an innate core enhancement. From what I read of the new Magister changes, the ED is gaining +9 untwistable DC. This will have an even bigger pull than the arcanes to EA for +3. FvS will go Cha for DCs and use Magister. Clerics, if they don’t switch to FvS, will probably use magister too.

With EA having 3 untwistable and Magister having 9. Giving EA a new T5 that adds +1/2/3 to evo or necro would help balance things a bit. Or removing 3 from Magister. Either way even with this change Magister will still have a higher DC potential.

100% this. Categorically EA is not a "better DC caster", it has draws because it gives the better toolkit. Magister is fairly strong, but with a less desirable toolkit. Ramping up Magister DCs will make us get the rest of the toolkit from other layers and enjoy a massive boost.

Then, it will be categorically true that all meta casters (aka necro and enchant spec) will auto trace to Magister.

This will also net result in a row of new twists, so even more DC, spell pen, stuffs.

[LurkingVeteran]

Steelstar: If I recall correctly, all DC classes (e.g. Wiz,Wlk, Sorc, Bard, Cleric) reached about the same DCs by end-game through the sum of their trees + EDs, where Wis/Cha went EA. Wizards were ahead of the rest in heroic, but EA let the others catch up. I assumed this was intentional. Wizards will now be ahead by ~3 DC, and everybody playing a DC caster (except maybe poor clerics) will now be in Magister (and there will certainly be a surge in the wizard population).

Is this a change of design philosophy or was it just broken before?

I don't know which is best, but another option would be to meet half way by removing 1-2 DC from both EA and the new Magister. Perhaps Wizards needs the perk, but be careful with adding even more DC in the upcoming Palemaster pass.

[ChadB123]

everybody playing a DC caster (except maybe poor clerics) will now be in Magister (and there will certainly be a surge in the wizard population

While there will likely be a surge in wizard population due to the upcoming Palemaster and Magister pass (and I welcome that), "everbody playing a DC caster will now be in Magister," is completely false. My alt is a FVS, and I will be remaining in EA simply for the Rebuke Foe ability. However, other classes will still be incentivized for EA because of wings, self healing, and still +3 DC in the core.

Not all EDs are meant to be the same. If so, start demanding that Magister gets defensive goodies like a heal SLA and wings.

EA is a great destiny and shouldn't be touched, except for Reborn, of course.

[karatemack]

The current changes to Magister are in response to EA's current position as a much stronger Destiny for DC casters, and the new numbers are balanced with EA's current potential in mind.

Should EA keep being a better DC casting tree than Magister? How much better?

Once the current changes are implemented, Magister will be far superior as a DC casting destiny. It already reduces target saves (while casting, EA has an active ability) and reduces spell cooldowns which made it arguably "better" now depending on where your toon is on the DC/Spell Pen spectrum.

The problem with EA is there is no "draw" really once these changes are implemented. I don't disagree (again) that Reborn should be changed, but hate that it's happening without fixing EA at the same time.

The entire Judgment -> Lay to Rest -> Judge the Many line has zero appeal for those who actually invest in turning. The damage is laughable due to mob hp numbers vs the damage it deals. The idea of stacking an effect against multiple things at once is a great concept, but the payoff just isn't effective in high-level content. This line is too costly for too little gain in the end. Personally, I would love to see this line instead changed to apply stacking debuffs on creatures affected by Command/Greater Command. (IE: blinded, confused, charmed) There are many stacking buffs/debuffs when turning in the cleric domains, and applying an effect based on the command spells opens the abilities of EA up for FVS as well as Cleric.

The problem with Light Spell SLAs isn't their base spell damage numbers. You can boost light spell damage a great deal, or can utilize domains (for Clerics) to utilize alternate spell powers which opens a ton of build variety choices. The issue with Light Spells all-around is their crit damage. There is nothing to compare to the Master of Knowledge feat for divine casters. This makes a world of difference when comparing highest arcane to highest divine damage numbers. (not to mention that many arcane spells have multiple chances to crit when cast) Providing a Master of Wisdom feat for divine casters would make the light spells in this tree more attractive. But I would still also love to see the save from the Soundburst SLA removed (or changed to WILL save) and perhaps add a divine equivalent of magic missile using light (IE: shards of light) instead of force damage.

Also, thanks for the responses Steel.

[kain741]

Steelstar: If I recall correctly, all DC classes (e.g. Wiz,Wlk, Sorc, Bard, Cleric) reached about the same DCs by end-game through the sum of their trees + EDs, where Wis/Cha went EA. Wizards were ahead of the rest in heroic, but EA let the others catch up. I assumed this was intentional. Wizards will now be ahead by ~3 DC, and everybody playing a DC caster (except maybe poor clerics) will now be in Magister (and there will certainly be a surge in the wizard population).

Is this a change of design philosophy or was it just broken before?

I don't know which is best, but another option would be to meet half way by removing 1-2 DC from both EA and the new Magister. Perhaps Wizards needs the perk, but be careful with adding even more DC in the upcoming Palemaster pass.

That is incorrect. PMs have always been up by a couple DCs.

[Arkat]

You are empowering already over-performing style, instakill spells.

When's the last time you tried to FoD a mob in Sharn content on Elite or better?

That 105 DC is no longer very good, is it? In fact it kinda sucks.

115-120+ is the new DC target to hit these days.

The changes to the Magister tree will allow PMs and such to keep up.

[janave]

When's the last time you tried to FoD a mob in Sharn content on Elite or better?

That 105 DC is no longer very good, is it? In fact it kinda sucks.

115-120+ is the new DC target to hit these days.

The changes to the Magister tree will allow PMs and such to keep up.

I have seen evo specces Sorcs FoD in R10 sharn welcome, few times tho. Probably behind a good 6-10. I have landed DC98 CoDs on R6, it requires targeting weak saves, but far from "useless".

Keep up? come on. Necro casters practically dominate high reaper runs.

[Arkat]

I have seen evo specces Sorcs FoD in R10 sharn welcome, few times tho. Probably behind a good 6-10. I have landed DC98 CoDs on R6, it requires targeting weak saves, but far from "useless".

Keep up? come on. Necro casters practically dominate high reaper runs.

FORT saves are almost always one of the mobs strong saves (Drow Wizards, etc. are notable exceptions). PMs are adept at using spells from the Necromancy school, yes? And Necromancy spells almost always require a Fortitude save. Can't think of one that doesn't, actually.

PMs, unless they make REAL efforts to branch out (and by that I mean work to acquire the equipment and past lives to jack up the appropriate DCs) to the Enchantment School (Will saves) or Evocation School (Reflex saves), are at a distinct disadvantage.

One thing that really does help is casting Energy Drain before casting the FoD, though. That's what we had to do in ToD when the monsters' saves were adjusted upward way back when.

[janave]

FORT saves are almost always one of the mobs strong saves (Drow Wizards, etc. are notable exceptions). PMs are adept at using spells from the Necromancy school, yes? And Necromancy spells almost always require a Fortitude save. Can't think of one that doesn't, actually.

PMs, unless they make REAL efforts to branch out (and by that I mean work to acquire the equipment and past lives to jack up the appropriate DCs) to the Enchantment School (Will saves) or Evocation School (Reflex saves), are at a distinct disadvantage.

One thing that really does help is casting Energy Drain before casting the FoD, though. That's what we had to do in ToD when the monsters' saves were adjusted upward way back when.

We used to run mobs thru Cloud Kills and Death Symbols, followed by a Necrotic Ray + Energy Drain Combo (single target overkill) or CoD+Wail (multi target), most stuff was easy kill in the hardest instances (with first life DCs...)

There are also party based debuffs and temp boosts.. so I think the expectation to auto shot brutes on r10 with FoD regardless of investment is wrong.

Also, nerf Enlarge... :D

[catfumaster]

The caster meta as a whole is plagued with issues atm. One of the big ones is that there is no specialization of school types. Class enhancements are all but nominal changes. DC items and most past life work are generic and affect all schools. This leaves the real discernible difference in end game DC's to class enhancements and destinies; which are still only nominal in some cases. Nine more generic increase to DC closes this gap relatively even more. As is stands no one plays an enchant specialized caster except for bards; because they have no other options; when a nerco caster still has no fail DC's on both instakills and cc.

Demanding what essentially amounts to a no fail DC for any spell school is like a melee wanting to only roll 20's on attacks. The consideration for spell DC balance should always start with answering the question, "How reliable should this be?" Spells should and do exist on two continua: one for reliability, one for frequency. Then depending on how far down the continuum to towards "always" you answer you need to adjust the frequency of use in the opposite direction. Currently one caster can obliterate mobs at an alarming rate, not to mention a group of casters.

Short of a massive overhaul of DC effects in all aspects of the game the best option to curb the dominance of end game casters is to move down the frequency continuum significantly. A major increase to instakill spell cooldowns and even possibly and increase in spell point cost.

[LurkingVeteran]

That is incorrect. PMs have always been up by a couple DCs.

I said about "about the same", I don't think it was more than 1-2 DC? With these changes, they will be 3 DC further ahead. If that is reasonable or not I don't know, I just pointed out an unstated side effect of the changes.

[Ballrus]

Divine Crusader:
This is also a Pretty Good tree in its current form, but lacks a little scaling and punch. In adding punch, we wanted to give some solid bonuses for Divine characters in here; you can get access to some alternative Favored Weapons, and then really make them shine if you've got a lot of Divine levels. We think Warpriests and War Souls will shine in here, along with Paladins once KOTC gets revamped later this year.


Castigation's damage now works on bosses as listed
Castigation now grants its listed Melee Power
No Regret now grants its listed Melee Power
Strike Down's tooltip now correctly says it deals Light damage
Strike Down's Light damage now scales with 200% Melee Power
Confront Any Foe now adds +3[w]
Confront Any Foe's Light damage now scales with 300% Melee Power
Smite the Wicked's Light damage is now 100 against Evil creatures and 100 against Undead creatures. Evil Undead creatures take both.
Smite the Wicked's Light damage now scales with 200% Melee Power.
Smite the Wicked now destroys Undead and Evil Outsiders under 1500 HP on a Vorpal.
Stand and be Judged now has a DC of 10+Wisdom Modifier+Character Level+Stunning Bonuses (We also made it faster & more reliable to cast a few Updates ago)
Celestial Bombardment now only has 1 rank, that does what the old Rank 3 did.
Celestial Bombardment now costs 20SP.
Celestial Bombardment now takes the Enlarge, Maximize, Empower, Intensify, Embolden, and Quicken Metamagics.
Celestial Bombardment is now significantly quicker to cast.
Moved Celestial Champion one spot left, to the middle of T5, it just feels better there.
Celestial Champion's Doublestrike and Doubleshot are now Sacred-typed.
NEW: T4: The Book of War: (Multiselector): Pick one of the following to gain as a Favored Weapon: Longsword, Longbow, Morningstar, Greatsword (1 Rank, 1AP)
NEW: T6: The Book of War: Wrath of the Divine: While wielding a Favored Weapon in your Main Hand, you gain +1 to Hit and Damage for every 2 Religious Lore Feats you have with all equipped weapons and shields. (1 Rank, 1AP)


Aura of Purification apply in only one enemy.
Celestial Champion granting only 1% doublestrike, regardless stacks (max 10 stacks).
No Remorse heal apply only in one ally.
Strike Down stops movement.

[Steelstar]

Aura of Purification apply in only one enemy.
Celestial Champion granting only 1% doublestrike, regardless stacks (max 10 stacks).
No Remorse heal apply only in one ally.
Strike Down stops movement.


We've got fixes to all of those coming, with the possible exception of No Remorse (I'll try to take a look at that one before Lama).

[Ballrus]

We've got fixes to all of those coming, with the possible exception of No Remorse (I'll try to take a look at that one before Lama).
Really Rad!!
Thanks in advance.

Ps. In No Remorse: if change it to an effect like Ameliorating Strike (from war priest)?
Could be 1d3 heal per char lvl (max lvl 30) and 1d6 if already have Ameliorathing Strike from other source.

Edit. Not game breaking or op, but help hybrids.

[Silverleafeon]

The current changes to Magister are in response to EA's current position as a much stronger Destiny for DC casters, and the new numbers are balanced with EA's current potential in mind.

Should EA keep being a better DC casting tree than Magister?



No.

Magister should provide better DCs than any other epic destiny.
This should be its signature feature, granting not only twistable DCs but becoming the best epic destiny for DCs save or die spellcasting.

[Chacka_DDO]

The current changes to Magister are in response to EA's current position as a much stronger Destiny for DC casters, and the new numbers are balanced with EA's current potential in mind.

Should EA keep being a better DC casting tree than Magister? How much better?

Out of my sight, the situation is now that charisma based DC casters chose EA over Magister because of the +3 DC on all spells.
And this is bad and should be changed and it is good that you're going to do that!
But I also dont want the situation that after this changes charisma based DC casters have only Magister as the right choice.
Therefore EA should get also the same DC as Magister but not better.
For that purpose, EA should maybe also get the Master of [Spell School]: ability or something similar so EA is THE divine DC caster feat and on par with the Magister destiny after the changes.

[cru121]

wouldn't it make sense to have different destinies grant bonuses to a subset of spell schools?
otherwise every single DC caster from gravitates to the best (or now best two) ED.

[LurkingVeteran]

That would pigeon-hole people too much imo. It's already kind of bad with "DC casting" being one destiny and nuking another, but twists mitigate this somewhat.

I'm a big fan of adding different types of utility to destinies. E.g. EA has very nice utility with heals, wings and self-rez. In that sense I think it's fine that Magister gets higher DC if it only has DC going for it, but if Magister summoning or sigils were actually useful, it would have been easier to meet parity with EA.

The problem with just boosting Magister this way is also in balancing it against all other caster trees that were much weaker than EA to begin with, e.g. Draconic, and hybrids like Primal Avatar and Shiradi. You need to substantially boost everything else. In any case, I'm positively surprised that they are working on the EDs. I just hope it's not a one-time thing because making lots of large changes quickly risks creating new imbalances.

[janave]

EA

MAGI


Buyable DC
0
3


Passive DC
3
0


Buyable Spell Pen
1
3


Passive Spell Pen
0
5


Buyable Spell levels
0
3


Spell Levels
0
5


Temp boosts
+2 CHA +2WIS
+5 DC


Situational boosts
+2 CHA
15% +5 DC debuffs




Arcane POV, single school (mostly necro) is not all that far from each other, moving the 3 DC from Magister to a no-twist slot seems like enough to balance out once the uni DC boost is down to 1 minute.

Wizards are already better off in Magister. Warlocks have innate defenses/heals, so non issue to migrate over to Magi, while Sorcs need full retooling. Magister can affort to twist in acid dragon debuffs on top, that should be more than enough.

A proxy -1 static and -1 boost DC nerf for Sorcs who are already behind due to lack of feats, and enhancements...

[SirValentine]

The current changes to Magister are in response to EA's current position as a much stronger Destiny for DC casters, and the new numbers are balanced with EA's current potential in mind.

Should EA keep being a better DC casting tree than Magister? How much better?

Devs have been...inconsistent...on the vision for destinies over the years. It's been claimed more than once that destinies are supposed to be independent things not linked to particular classes, but then the clear implementation, from the start and the years since then, is actually for them to be fairly tightly coupled to specific classes.

If you actually want to make them class-independent as per the original dev vision for destinies, and do things like "Magister is the DC caster destiny", then you need Magister to actually be appropriate for any and all DC casters. Right now it only gives caster level increases to a few specific classes. Right now, it doesn't allow improvements to casting stat for all DC caster classes.

Since you haven't done so in the past, and claim do be doing only small tweaks now, I expect you probably won't actually make destinies destined for roles now, but instead leave their game mechanics tightly linked only to specific classes. Given that, then, yes, EA should be better...for divines it's built for. And Magister should be better for the arcanes it's built for. Since destinies are class-linked, it's dumb that Wizards get better use of a Divine destiny than divines, that Sorcs are far better off in a Divine destiny than an Arcane one. And it will be dumb when FvS get better use of Magister than arcanes and are better off there than in, say, EA.

TLDR: Figure out what you actually want destinies to do; twiddling with details when you have no vision just leaves a big mess.

[SirValentine]

Out of my sight, the situation is now that charisma based DC casters chose EA over Magister because of the +3 DC on all spells.


It was added at a time when Wisdom-based casters were substantially behind arcanes in maximum DC potential. It did, then, help even them up versus Wizards. But it gave an (unintended?) huge bonus to the Cha-based arcanes, and even made EA have near the same DC potential for Wizards as Magister.

Though I wanted the effect at the time (certain primary DC casters not being hopelessly behind others), in retrospect, the method was probably not the best, and is probably no longer need.



EA core's passive 3DC should be removed, and don't add PASSIVE DC on magister core.


That would be reasonable.

[SirValentine]

Steelstar: If I recall correctly, all DC classes (e.g. Wiz,Wlk, Sorc, Bard, Cleric)...

You forgot Druid and Favored Soul for sure. And potentially other classes, too. Some Artificers and Rangers build for spell DCs, for example.

[LurkingVeteran]

You forgot Druid and Favored Soul for sure. And potentially other classes, too. Some Artificers and Rangers build for spell DCs, for example.

I don't disagree, but "e.g." means "for example".

kain741: About Wizards always being a couple of DC ahead, see this thread from 2016: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/471816-Comprehensive-DC-breakdown-for-all-classes

All classes' necro DC (the hardest to reach) were within 1.5 DC from Wizard, with the exception of Bards who were 2.5 DC behind. I had assumed the way the different paths added together to be fairly equal at cap was intended at the time. This will widen the gap for Wizards. I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing for balance reasons, but it is an unstated side effect.

[CSQ]

Please take a look at Astral Vibrance.

It doesn't even seem to work (at least the damage portion). Sure, I was on a level 20 bard build, so I don't know if that messed with things, but I never saw damage or healing procs (though I did have sustaining song on so I may have just missed them) and it never increased the cost (which I assume means it didn't do anything). I've watched it not do damage to mobs, to bosses, to anything. As for the healing, I didn't really test that much because with a ton of temp HP and healing over time from sustaining song I never needed it, but it's certainly marginally useful, if at all, because of the arcane health requirements and the fact that it, uh, doesn't seem to work.

[Silverleafeon]

Please take a look at Astral Vibrance.

It doesn't even seem to work (at least the damage portion). Sure, I was on a level 20 bard build, so I don't know if that messed with things, but I never saw damage or healing procs (though I did have sustaining song on so I may have just missed them) and it never increased the cost (which I assume means it didn't do anything). I've watched it not do damage to mobs, to bosses, to anything. As for the healing, I didn't really test that much because with a ton of temp HP and healing over time from sustaining song I never needed it, but it's certainly marginally useful, if at all, because of the arcane health requirements and the fact that it, uh, doesn't seem to work.

Ok, this is news, so I park my level cap tank in the tavern, turn on Astral Vibrance and go watch the latest episode of Battle Bots...

...checking back later on, it is still doing

-1 sp which tavern regeneration or most anything else handles

I guess I'll go park inside Devil's Assault for a damage test next.




Thoughts on the matter, I like that the major sp penalty has gone to -1 persistent (even if this means no damage therein which I will check under controlled conditions), however technically it is broken not working as intended.

As such there is the immediate danger that it will be fixed into the original highly undesirable (at for me) Astral Vibrancy not worth turning on (and having to make sure it is turned off after Ascendancy) version.
So, definitely needing a look if only to establish a new standard for this.


The overwhelming brightness of ascendancy along with the major sp drain of astral vibrancy was perhaps my strongest objections to Exalted Angel (beside my constant "why don't we have 10 epic destiny levels for all EDs?" drama).
Also, I have never felt that EA should exceed Magistar in DCs (although I have no objections to EA being very close to Magistar in DCs).

[Silverleafeon]

Update...


Took Fawngate into Devil's Assault on HN.

Astral Vibrance is on, turned on Ascendancy (which seemed to be less intense than I remember, perhaps it is my computer glass which protect against glare, but even taking them off it seems less but still problematic).


Went and watched more Battle Bots and came back.


Zero bats and devils were killed, despite the bats having a health of 9 hit points.
Miss, miss, miss, miss, miss = from foes
-1 sp, -1 sp, -1 sp with no perceptible damage/effects = from Fawngate



So currently, it is possible that someone did a quick fix of EA turning off the massive sp drain, toning down ascendancy a bit?

However this does leave the ascendancy / astral vibrancy in a state of limbo which could be reverted to a more harmful state by a well meaning quality assurance engineer later on...and also the -1 sp every two seconds is pointless with zero damage done.

I will continue to stand by complete removal of astral vibrancy for any other effect regardless of how minor.



Additional update...

After finishing watching Battle Bots and using up 1500ish spell points at -1 sp per 2 seconds, there were zero bats or devils killed, not even energy sheath killed (guards are not so effective for tank builds)…

Finished out, turned off Astral Vibrance, turn on Ascendancy and lo and behold Astral Vibrance did not auto turn on with Ascendancy, leaving me to believe that someone did a temporary quick fix on the worst parts of the EA ED?

Please leave the does not turn on during Ascendancy that way as it would be preferred by me.

[slarden]

The current changes to Magister are in response to EA's current position as a much stronger Destiny for DC casters, and the new numbers are balanced with EA's current potential in mind.

Should EA keep being a better DC casting tree than Magister? How much better?

The proposal seems reasonable to me since wizard is about the only casting class where EA isn't the first destiny I consider. Arcane dc will never be perfectly balanced due to the different # of spell levels classes have. It makes sense to me arcane sphere has the highest dc potential.

With the changes to shiradi I hope you will consider adding more force items to the game. Force is nearly 2 years behind the loot inflation curve. Elemental damage has the stacking ravenloft belts. There are nice orbs for light and negative insightful spellpower and lore from sharn. Force has slavers crafting. Shiradi casting hasn't really been a thing since reaper was introduced - so it's a good time to implement the change.


wouldn't it make sense to have different destinies grant bonuses to a subset of spell schools?
otherwise every single DC caster from gravitates to the best (or now best two) ED.

It seems like Magister will be the best for max dc but not much else comes with it. Draconic is the blasting destiny and EA is a hybrid destiny with DC, self-healing and less dps than draconic. I wouldn't underestimate how good mass cure sla + divine wrath is.

[slarden]

100% this. Categorically EA is not a "better DC caster", it has draws because it gives the better toolkit. Magister is fairly strong, but with a less desirable toolkit. Ramping up Magister DCs will make us get the rest of the toolkit from other layers and enjoy a massive boost.

Then, it will be categorically true that all meta casters (aka necro and enchant spec) will auto trace to Magister.

This will also net result in a row of new twists, so even more DC, spell pen, stuffs.

Note: Not counting evocation/conjuration/spell pen twists from draconic as they are available to all destines so it's a wash. Also to get tier 5 master of <school> precludes getting a 6th stat point.

Before Change:

EA Charisma Caster
+4 Universal DC from transcendental magic and angelic presence
+3 Universal DC from 6 charisma
+.5 Universal DC from 3rd racial past life
+3 DC in one school - twist from magister
+5 Spell Pen for divines only

+7.5 universal DC, +3 DC to main school, +3 spell pen for arcanes/primal, +8 spell pen for divines

EA Wisdom Caster
+3 Universal DC from transcendental magic
+3 Universal DC from 6 wisdom
+3 DC in one school - twist from magister
+5 spell pen for divines only

+7 universal DC, +3 DC to main school, +3 spell pen for arcanes/primal, +8 spell pen for divines

Wisdom casters have the opportunity to twist +2 wisdom from fury and +2 wisdom festival bonus also

Magister

+2.5 Universal DC from Int or Cha (24 pts to get master tier 5)
+3 DC in one school
+3 spell pen from tier 3
+3 spell pen from master tier 5
+5 spell pen for arcanes only

+2.5 Universal DC, +3 to main school, +6 spell pen for divines/primal, +11 spell pen for arcanes (extra .5 DC for cha casters due to 3rd racial life)

Int caster can get a DC from +2 festival bonus

After Change:

EA Charisma Caster
+4 Universal DC from transcendental magic and angelic presence
+3 Universal DC from 6 charisma
+.5 Universal DC from 3rd racial past life
+3 DC in one school - twist from magister
+5 Spell Pen for divines only

+7.5 universal DC, +3 DC to main school, +3 spell pen for arcanes/primal, +8 spell pen for divines
EA Wisdom Caster
+3 Universal DC from transcendental magic
+3 Universal DC from 6 wisdom
+3 DC in one school - twist from magister
+5 spell pen for divines only

+7 universal DC, +3 DC to main school, +3 spell pen for arcanes/primal, +8 spell pen for divines

Wisdom casters have the opportunity to twist +2 wisdom from fury and +2 wisdom festival bonus also

Magister

+5 Universal DC from Cores (assuming 5 and not 6)
+2.5 Universal DC from Int or Cha (24 pts to get master tier 5)
+6 DC in one school
+3 spell pen from tier 3
+3 spell pen from master tier 5
+5 spell pen for arcanes only

+7.5 Universal DC, +6 DC to main school, +6 spell pen for arcanes/primal, +11 spell pen for arcanes

It wasn't equal before and it's not equal after. The universal DC seems right. If they wanted to adjust anything I think it would have to be the tier 5 ability, but considering divines and EA has better healing options it seems like a fair trade off.

I have no skin in the game on the arcane vs. divine casting arguments as I have builds for both in my sig.

But I will point out that my fvs has significantly higher dc potential in EA than my warlock will have in Magister.

Assuming Gear and racial trees are equal, just comparing the fvs and warlock builds in my sig with fvs specializing in necro.

Warlock SE/TS build: 1 necromancy DC in tier 4, no festival cha augment, +7.5 Universal DC magister, +6 necro DC in magister, +11 spell pen in magister, 2 spell pen TS, + .5 universal DC from 3rd racial past life.

Fvs Wisdom AoV build: +3 universal DC from spell level (9 vs. 6), 3 universal dc in Aov cores, 1 evoc dc in tier 5, +1 dc from festival augment, +6 universal DC EA, +3 necro DC twist, +8 spell pen from EA, +1 spell pen from AoV

Total Warlock: +8 universal DC, +15 necro Dc, +13 spell pen
Total Fvs: +13 universal DC, + 16 necro DC, +9 spell pen

So I am not sure why this mythology that divines are way behind on DC persists. Even after this change divines will have a DC advantage over warlocks. EA also comes with some nice self-healing not available in Magister.

Before the changes EA is the go-to destiny choice for cha/wis casters hands-down. Int casters can't get a stat bonus from EA so it's not as good of an option, but if I could take EA with int stats vs. magister I would take EA any time with the current trees.

[rabidfox]

Divine Crusader:
This is also a Pretty Good tree in its current form, but lacks a little scaling and punch. In adding punch, we wanted to give some solid bonuses for Divine characters in here; you can get access to some alternative Favored Weapons, and then really make them shine if you've got a lot of Divine levels. We think Warpriests and War Souls will shine in here, along with Paladins once KOTC gets revamped later this year.

NEW: T4: The Book of War: (Multiselector): Pick one of the following to gain as a Favored Weapon: Longsword, Longbow, Morningstar, Greatsword (1 Rank, 1AP)

Any chance of ever seeing a thrown weapon on that list (or elsewhere) as a favored weapon?

[bloodnose13]

ok so i would have suggestion since its being done!!!!!

unyealding sentinels stances could be changed in a way each of them works, for each of them to reflect 3 different scenarios, as i see it it could be like this:

1. stand against tide, a stance for tanking many targets, its bonus would grow based on how many enemies attacks you at same time, maybe give a % chance for certain attacks to be ignored in such scenario

2. unbreakable, a one target tanking scenario stance, where it focuses on keeping aggro, all defences foused on front,

3. battle stance, this one could be focused on damage, for situations where tank is not needed and its better for tank to just focus on doing damage, it could have a stacking damage bonus that would grow with attacking the enemies, also maybe there could be some upgrade to it in a tree that would add some debuff to said attacks?

i think that would create a situation where there woudl be actuall reason to swap between those stances and not just keep one on that we see as most useful.

ps: BTW PLEASE DO NOT ATTACH HP BONUS TO ONE STANCE ONLY AGAIN, having that 10% on wrong stance is annoying enough.

ps2: i do love the fact you add attacks to that tree, but they seem bit too singleminded, would be nice to have them somewhat differ like how lay waste and momentum swing differ from each other

ps3: do those new attacks mean intolerant blows will be gone from tree? hopefully yes

also the divine crusader destiny:

confront any foe, i think it would be best if it was just on cooldown, an attack that will not be useful as soon as turns are gone is a waste of points, lets assume that usual number of turns is around 20-25, that will be gone in a one encounter, and what then? they dont return fast enough. with its 10d10 damage i never used it as it was laughable damage for its turn cost.

[karatemack]

So I am not sure why this mythology that divines are way behind on DC persists. Even after this change divines will have a DC advantage over warlocks. EA also comes with some nice self-healing not available in Magister.

Before the changes EA is the go-to destiny choice for cha/wis casters hands-down. Int casters can't get a stat bonus from EA so it's not as good of an option, but if I could take EA with int stats vs. magister I would take EA any time with the current trees.

I'm not sure where the myth of divines being hopelessly behind arcane for DC casting comes from either.

I dont think there is enough of a draw in EA for divine DC casters after the pass. There could be. Hopefully steel is taking some of the suggestions from this thread and seeing if there are ways to implement.

[erethizon]

Not enough points in US to send on both hate (which is not strong enough) and defense (which is also important for tanks).
As I have mentioned many times in the past, Epic Destinies were design at level cap 25, and were likely intended to be raised as the level cap was raised.
We should have 40 points to spend (4 per epic level) if things were as they ought to be.
Getting from present state to ought to be might be interesting path, but many epic destinies would work more balanced if we had more points to spend.
Technically, we should only have 20 points to spend, but a kind developer fudged the system long ago to give us the iconic 24 points.
(I was there and read his remarks on the subject. - back in the day of rusted blades x100)

40 points is actually a really good idea. I totally ignore half the skills on any ED because I never have the points to spend on them and they are not powerful enough for any build to use some of the precious 24 points we do get. Extra points would allow us to play with some of the skills that normally get ignored (and wouldn't be overpowered because they skills were not that great anyway or we would be using some of our 24 points to get them).

[erethizon]

Didn't you realize most power-gamers are already on DC casters or wolves who is addicted to duped pots? Think why they are.

So, why do you empower already Over-performing style?

Because the vast majority of casters badly need the extra DC to be able to perform at all. Ruining the game for 90% of casters because 1% of them are really powerful isn't a good solution. As long as DC casting remains on the D20 system (instead of going to a percent system like AC is now), there needs to be ways for the majority of casters to get their DC's up to the point of being at least slightly useful. The Magister changes are badly needed and a great improvement. If you want to campaign for a hard cap on how high DC's can go (so the majority of casters can attempt to get closer to the top players) I am open-minded to that change, but we don't need fewer easy DC increases in this game for the majority of players to use.

[Alcides]

I disagree with nerfing spell DCs since having high DCs requires time investment putting together the right past lives and items. Also DC casters are very necessary for melee to be successful in group settings. Nerf the DC and you go back to a ranged metagame only since DC nerfs amount to knocking over the tripod keeping melee builds relevant.

[Silverleafeon]

unyealding sentinels stances could be changed in a way each of them works, for each of them to reflect 3 different scenarios, as i see it it could be like this:

+1 definitely a point for the Devs to review


Unbreakable Stance only provides DR 10/epic with an option for +1d6 alignment weapon damage = terribly outdated and never used by my toons.

Often the Vigor of Battle +50 hp is the best choice, but changes to Stand Against the Tide will be nice to see (although the whole hate immunity issue comes up fairly often and hate numbers in this ED are terribly outdate as well).

[bloodnose13]

+1 definitely a point for the Devs to review


Unbreakable Stance only provides DR 10/epic with an option for +1d6 alignment weapon damage = terribly outdated and never used by my toons.

Often the Vigor of Battle +50 hp is the best choice, but changes to Stand Against the Tide will be nice to see (although the whole hate immunity issue comes up fairly often and hate numbers in this ED are terribly outdate as well).

see i have one more issue about stand against the tide and its the fact that it requires not moving to retain stacks, so every monster with kobold ai, makes it useless, every monster that can knock you around, makes it useless, everyquest mechanic where monster moves around or you are required to reposition every few seconds.... makes it useless. so yea ill take that extra hp bonus any time, and that dr and prr bonus from unbreakable, 10 dr when getting hit for more than 1k is laughable, as for prr, 20 extra prr when you are over 300 counts barely as 1% so wont be noticable either, 50 hp wins still. so i do hope devs will look at that idea and maybe do something about those stances.

btw, i dont understand the point of making those tiered abilities like renewal or divine energy resistance, where they have 3 tiers just for sake of progression, where we pay extra points not to upgrade it, but to remove penalty (its how i see it), those abilities and their kind rarely gain anything by adding more stacks and you pay extra points just to recieve full bonus, sentinel still has space in the tree so those points could go into something new.

[Palna]

I haven't read the whole thread, and I'm not savvy enough on the theorycrafting front to answer this myself, but will Divine Crusader actually be competitive with Legendary Dreadnaught after this pass? I hope there will be enough in there for melee DPS to be if not as good, at least in the ballpark with LD after this pass..

[karatemack]

Will any other updates happen to EA?

If you're considering other changes but at a later time, please delay ALL changes until you're ready to complete the comprehensive pass.

[Steelstar]

Will any other updates happen to EA?

If you're considering other changes but at a later time, please delay ALL changes until you're ready to complete the comprehensive pass.

We've got a few small changes to EA, mostly bugfixes/minor adjustments. We'll have a list up when U43 starts hitting Lamannia.

We do not have plans to delay this pass.

[Wolfspite]

We had a few primary goals in the Epic Destiny pass, compounded by a very slim time-frame of 3 weeks for principal changes.


First and foremost, try to put each Destiny in a place where it's worth using for at least some builds.
Fix bugs and remove things that hinder fun or usability

You'll notice that every Epic Moment that required you to do weird things to charge it up no longer requires that.

Improve the ability for people to play in Destinies that match their Archetype (ranged characters in Shiradi, etc) without significantly hindering the current ability for people to play in Destinies that don't (casters in Shiradi, etc)


Exalted Angel

This is a good tree, for those who can make use of the skills in it. We analyzed it and didn't see much that we thought merited major change, though we might try to loop back for some bugfixes before release. We did make a change to one skill for game balance reasons.

Reborn in Light no longer charges with Endless Ardor and Righteous Fervor; instead, it is once per Rest (keeps 10min cooldown).



The premise for this ED pass as described above is to make them more useful, easier to use and last but not least, and probably the most important, make them match their archtype for which they were intended.

While EA may be a good tree atm, after the proposed pass that cannot be said.

If we are trying to match archtype, then the arcane and divine trees need to equalize on DC and Spellpower, otherwise you will just get a yoyo effect each time you do a pass as DC casters and damage casters will bounce between the two spheres.

I personally don't see why an arcane caster should have a higher DC than a divine caster based on epic destinies, equally why should a sorcerer do more damage than an FvS based on ED's? Quite simply they shouldn't, the differences should be based on class not ED.

So if magister stays with the proposed DC changes, then EA should get the same or adjust each as necessary. This makes it easier for arcanes to be magisters and divines to be EA's if they wish.

The Sorcerer / FvS scenario is more difficult as there isn't a dedicated divine damage ED like Draconic. An option could be to add some spell damage crit bonuses to EA and or the Divine Crusader trees themselves at higher levels so they can't be twisted. (lvl 4 plus).


More specifically with EA:

Astral Vibrance is pointless. Seriously who uses it? Swap this in position with Angelic Prescence and put another +3 Transcendental Magic at position 3 in the core to equalize Magister.

Change the benefits of activating Ascendance to some of the benefits provided by Reborn in Light, eg:

"You are healed to full. For 2 minutes (or until you leave Angelic form), you are immune to light damage, gain 50% Incorporeality, and gain +100 Light and Healing Power. The cooldowns of Light and Positive Energy spells are reduced to 1/5th normal, all spells cost 50% spell points. All of your physical attacks gain On Hit 100 Light damage and On Critical destroy evil undead or evil outsiders under 1000 hit points."

Avenging Light should be swapped to a defensive ability similar to Unearthly Reactions with +10 jump added per ED point spent. We all know clerics can't jump!

Disassociate Endless Faith.

Pretty much the only places the Judgement line is useful is the Wizard King and TTT, but 5 ED points is just too expensive which while its fun to see undead explode one after another like the barrels in Siegebreaker, it's just not worth it.

Soundburst needs its DC sorting out.

Be at Peace. While I appreciate it's designed to be an emergency life saver, if you see the danger coming there are plenty of other ways to get rid of aggro that don't cost 2 ED points. (This could be changed to the Master of Domain slot)

A new Tier 4 slot called Master of Domain which adds +3 DC to the spell school of the chosen domain.

Sunbolt, imo this should be changed to a Sunburst SLA.

Reborn in Light has all its epic moments' benefits removed and transfer some of them to Ascendance. Reborn will only do what it says and rez you at full health and full spell points once per rest. The cooldown needs to be removed along with the cooldown on jibbers and any other ability to rez yourself once per rest.


Re Rez cooldowns. Seriously devs, do you not realise that by putting cooldowns on rez items and abilities that are "Use once per rest"; you are just turning the community into coffee addicts and or alcoholics? The limiting factor is do you have a shrine available? I'm not going to spend points in the DDO store on a cake when I can rez and then use a spare shrine to reactivate my once per rest rez item. So, by putting a 10 minute cooldown on an item, you just force me to get get another/more drink(s).

Also, just in case some of you are wondering, I do not play a cleric on live.

[Silverleafeon]

Any chance the devs could create or point out settings in advanced graphics that would reduce special effects that are overly bright (ei: body of sun, ascendance, sunburst, ect…)?

[Keylon]

We've got a few small changes to EA, mostly bugfixes/minor adjustments. We'll have a list up when U43 starts hitting Lamannia.

We do not have plans to delay this pass.

Would it be possible to get an improved SLA in T6 as opposed to Sun Bolt, that way people can chose between getting Divine Wrath or another strong SLA, maybe a fireball-like spell but instead of fire its light based.

Also, the DCs for all SLAs don't take advantage of item bonuses, my Nightmother's Sceptre does nothing to help with spell's DC.

Finally I generally tend to stay away from Avenging Light (T1 SLA) and the Nimbus of Light SLA because its such an inaccurate spell. Is it possible to improve accuracy similar to how accurate searing light is? Also, it would really help if the caster level was a bit higher.

[vryxnr]

NEW: T4: Draw them Out: Melee Attack: +3[w]. This attack adds 300 Hate for the user to creatures it hits on top of its normal damage. 6 second cooldown. (1 Rank, 1AP)
NEW: T6: Celestial Mandate: Melee Attack: +5[w]. This attack adds 2000 Hate for the user to creatures it hits on top of its normal damage. 6 second cooldown. (1 Rank, 1AP)




Two things. (sorry I missed Lamania) I assume these are single target only?

Second: my DPS fighter is no where near top tier. Given the range of players I've played with over the years, I consider him pretty much average for DPS, maybe a bit above average. Without sneak attack, I've had crits hit for 14,000-ish damage. That's a single hit. An extra 2,000 hate once every 6 seconds is not going to be able to keep aggro on non-intimidate-able enemies from me, let alone actual top DPS characters. The only chance it has is in high skull reaper, but I've read many posts by devs stating that the game is not being balanced around reaper.

[Alcides]

Are you still taking feed back from this thread?
If so can the point costs on the Unyielding Sentinel tree get a review? Theres a lot of points that have to be taken just to have a basic tank harness from the tree that doesn't allow for much variety for tanks out of this tree.