Holy Unholy

[Cybersquirt]

Enough, already. I have 5000 Unholy trap parts I cannot do jack-all with. WHEN will Standing Stone acknowledge this ridiculous oversight?

[banjo174]

Step 1. Remove from bag.
Step 2. Click and hold the item.
Step 3. Drag out of inventory.
Step 4. Hit Enter.

You are welcome

[Cantor]

Enough, already. I have 5000 Unholy trap parts I cannot do jack-all with. WHEN will Standing Stone acknowledge this ridiculous oversight?

They are all useless (ok, magical has some niche use), not just unholy. I'd like something to do with them.

[cru121]

Sharn has a big enclave of House Cannith forges and laboratories, it would be nice if the trap parts could be used there somehow. Probably not for the expansion, but for the second pack in Sharn planned for later this year?

[droid327]

I'd love if you could manufacture Magical Trap Arrows with the same (single-target) effects as Magical Traps - Blind, Dance, Web, Hold Person, Slow, etc.

Its not anything you cant already do with Trapmaking, and they'd be obsolete at some point because of DCs, but it'd be a great QOL feature for lower levels and be something you could burn off all those trap parts on.

Or arrows with a % chance on hit for an AOE damage burst, like Grenades.

[LazarusPossum]

I'd love if you could manufacture Magical Trap Arrows with the same (single-target) effects as Magical Traps - Blind, Dance, Web, Hold Person, Slow, etc.

Its not anything you cant already do with Trapmaking, and they'd be obsolete at some point because of DCs, but it'd be a great QOL feature for lower levels and be something you could burn off all those trap parts on.

Or arrows with a % chance on hit for an AOE damage burst, like Grenades.

That would be fun, for a little Thief flavor, and probably not infringing on copyright.

[Krumm]

My suggestion is to make Trapmaking feat be an on/off toggle.
So that we can have a choice to either pickup trap part or not.

My suggestion post.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/505101-Please-make-Trapmaking-Feat-a-on-off-toggle-able-feat

[Dragavon]

I would love an option to not pick up trap parts at all. Would be nice to not have to take them out of bag and dump them.

It would be awesome if the recover trap part things was a stance you activated if you wanted trap parts.

[Bradik_Losdar]

Enough, already. I have 5000 Unholy trap parts I cannot do jack-all with. WHEN will Standing Stone acknowledge this ridiculous oversight?

The only way to solve this is for you to throw away the parts. That way, a week later, SSG will implement a new system that REQUIRES those parts en masse, making them very valuable. (Sort of what happened with collectables).

Go on throw them away, that's the only way to get the ball rolling!

[Xgya]

I'd love if you could manufacture Magical Trap Arrows with the same (single-target) effects as Magical Traps - Blind, Dance, Web, Hold Person, Slow, etc.

Its not anything you cant already do with Trapmaking, and they'd be obsolete at some point because of DCs, but it'd be a great QOL feature for lower levels and be something you could burn off all those trap parts on.

Or arrows with a % chance on hit for an AOE damage burst, like Grenades.

That sounds pretty cool!
Rogues don't really need the boost, but the idea is so neat I'd love to see it implemented in one way or another.
Either as attacks that directly cost trap parts, or cost fabricated traps. (don't underestimate those DCs on a dedicated trapmaker though :P)

Trading the AoE function of those traps for extra range seems to be a pretty fair exchange. It would also need to come with the usual DPS drop.
Requiring a setup (like the current traps do) would lower the DPS by the exact amount that's currently lost by setting a trap instead of shooting at things, but would also be rather hard to use.
You could add a penalty to attack speed after shooting such an arrow (perhaps along with making the arrow deal less damage than usual).

[droid327]

That sounds pretty cool!
Rogues don't really need the boost, but the idea is so neat I'd love to see it implemented in one way or another.

Trading the AoE function of those traps for extra range seems to be a pretty fair exchange. It would also need to come with the usual DPS drop.


Well my thought was that Mechanics could use a way to reliably proc Sneak damage, without being handcuffed to e.g. Radiance xbows. And it gives more value to Fletching, which is becoming more and more widespread, since that lets you use consumable ammo in a practical sense.

I dont see the need for a DPS drop though - you're already forgoing a little extra DPS from Flame Arrow (or Grenade Arrows, if that part is implemented too). Otherwise, though, whats the rationale behind forcing you to slow the fight? Traps would still be AOE, you'd still have a reason to use them - plus melee Rogues wouldnt be able to use Trap Arrows anyway. You're already paying an opportunity cost to have them - the time spent acquiring parts and crafting them - so why pay an additional opportunity cost to use them, too? If anything, a DPS penalty would just make the whole thing pointless since "death is the best CC" anyway...if they're not saving you TTK, then you're better off just with summoned arrows.

[Sho-sa]

They will be used when the 392nd different crafting system is introduced to DDO.

Stock up now for it will be coming Soon(TM).



:-)

[Cybersquirt]

Step 1. Remove from bag.
Step 2. Click and hold the item.
Step 3. Drag out of inventory.
Step 4. Hit Enter.

You are welcome

You are demoted :p I know how to delete items. All other trap parts can be used to make traps (and grenades), why not holy & unholy?

*Note to other posters: Traps are made at the Device Workstation using all other trap parts + other items. Sleep, etc, traps can also be made there if you have the scroll. Grenades can be crafted from the parts, too. Agree that it would be cool if there were more uses for the trap parts, like arrows, but at least there are multiple uses for all other trap part, save Holy & Unholy. And if you don't want to get trap parts, don't take Rogue L4 which auto-grants 'Trap making.'

[Xgya]

Well my thought was that Mechanics could use a way to reliably proc Sneak damage, without being handcuffed to e.g. Radiance xbows. And it gives more value to Fletching, which is becoming more and more widespread, since that lets you use consumable ammo in a practical sense.

I dont see the need for a DPS drop though - you're already forgoing a little extra DPS from Flame Arrow (or Grenade Arrows, if that part is implemented too). Otherwise, though, whats the rationale behind forcing you to slow the fight? Traps would still be AOE, you'd still have a reason to use them - plus melee Rogues wouldnt be able to use Trap Arrows anyway. You're already paying an opportunity cost to have them - the time spent acquiring parts and crafting them - so why pay an additional opportunity cost to use them, too? If anything, a DPS penalty would just make the whole thing pointless since "death is the best CC" anyway...if they're not saving you TTK, then you're better off just with summoned arrows.

The DPS drop is because you're basically gaining something that would normally require a Rogue to stop, drop everything, wait for a long interruptible charging time just to set it up before a fight starts.
They're like a Wizard's Dancing Sphere, if that spell couldn't be cast at range, and couldn't be quickened.
Yet, those traps are already in use in the game by various people at various levels of play, which shows they're still considered useful despite those flaws (well, barring the elemental traps, that is)

You're trading the melee range limit and charge time for single target and DPS drop. (you wouldn't be doing damage while installing the trap normally, so that makes sense to me)

The trap parts aren't the lost opportunity - in both the current and proposed situation, they're already being used up.

[Cybersquirt]

The only way to solve this is for you to throw away the parts. That way, a week later, SSG will implement a new system that REQUIRES those parts en masse, making them very valuable. (Sort of what happened with collectables).

Go on throw them away, that's the only way to get the ball rolling!

thanks, Founder? [baleeted] *yeah, I got burned in a big way deciding to take a year off during that crafting revamp.

[droid327]

The DPS drop is because you're basically gaining something that would normally require a Rogue to stop, drop everything, wait for a long interruptible charging time just to set it up before a fight starts.


So? What purpose does that serve? The charge time is so you dont use them like grenades mid-combat, or as alternatives to casting the spell itself, but that's also because they're AOE. I dont think single-target arrows would need to have that restriction, especially if they're %-chance-on-hit instead of 100%-on-trigger. The "DPS lost because of induction time" is not something you need to recreate, because traps right now arent intended to make you do less DPS - plus you're not laying them in combat anyway, which IS the point of the induction, so you're not actually losing DPS while you're fighting.

You already have that equivalency established with the elemental traps - you can lay down an AOE elemental trap, or you can build an arrow with an elemental effect. I'm just extending that system to include non-damage effects. I think an active DPS penalty would be an unnecessary and arbitrary extra cost that has no analogue anywhere else in the game.

[Cybersquirt]

Why are Holy & Unholy Trap Parts Dropping yet are WORTHLESS? Like a FEW OTHER ITEMS in this GAME?

[Kutalp]

Manually sorting out junk can be a tiring process at times.

[Xgya]

So? What purpose does that serve? The charge time is so you dont use them like grenades mid-combat, or as alternatives to casting the spell itself, but that's also because they're AOE. I dont think single-target arrows would need to have that restriction, especially if they're %-chance-on-hit instead of 100%-on-trigger. The "DPS lost because of induction time" is not something you need to recreate, because traps right now arent intended to make you do less DPS - plus you're not laying them in combat anyway, which IS the point of the induction, so you're not actually losing DPS while you're fighting.

You already have that equivalency established with the elemental traps - you can lay down an AOE elemental trap, or you can build an arrow with an elemental effect. I'm just extending that system to include non-damage effects. I think an active DPS penalty would be an unnecessary and arbitrary extra cost that has no analogue anywhere else in the game.

While you're laying a trap, you're not fighting. DPS loss.
Laying a trap right now most certainly makes you kill things slower, but safer.
Saying you're not laying them in combat is moot. You're laying them while not doing damage.

You're trading the AoE for range already.

What are you losing in order to remove the charge time?

[HastyPudding]

The problem with making trap parts super useful is that only two classes currently have access to getting large amounts of them. It's not something that is readily available to every player, regardless of class or build (like other ingredients or collectibles). I'd love to see trapmaking be more useful, but I don't think we'll see that any time soon (unless this new class coming up working with 'potions and gadgets' will somehow make better use of them).

[droid327]

While you're laying a trap, you're not fighting. DPS loss.
Laying a trap right now most certainly makes you kill things slower, but safer.
Saying you're not laying them in combat is moot. You're laying them while not doing damage.

You're trading the AoE for range already.

What are you losing in order to remove the charge time?

Being in town is a DPS loss too. Opening doors is a DPS loss. Going to the bathroom is a DPS loss. I dont see that as a necessary metric. DPS loss only matters when things are attacking you. The important statistic is TTK vs TTL.

The charge time is not an opportunity cost that needs to be compensated. Its merely a mechanic to make it impossible to use the traps mid-combat like grenades.

[Xgya]

Being in town is a DPS loss too. Opening doors is a DPS loss. Going to the bathroom is a DPS loss. I dont see that as a necessary metric. DPS loss only matters when things are attacking you. The important statistic is TTK vs TTL.

The charge time is not an opportunity cost that needs to be compensated. Its merely a mechanic to make it impossible to use the traps mid-combat like grenades.

The meaningful time loss is when comparing quest completion times.
The charge time is time you're not killing enemies (or opening doors), which, in turn, lowers your completion time.

DPS loss would matter because instead of spending more time out of combat preparing traps, you'd spend more time in combat using them. Which, hopefully, would lead to similar quest completion times.

[Dalris_Thane]

Step 1. Remove from bag.
Step 2. Click and hold the item.
Step 3. Drag out of inventory.
Step 4. Hit Enter.

There is a psychological barrier to just deleting stuff. In other MMOs I played, there was a real mood impact to deleting stuff I'd acquired for a while, then 1-2 months later, the devs put a great new way to use... the stuff I just deleted.

If you love or hate the game, stuff like that won't matter. But, speaking personally, when I'm on the fence, the delete, wait 2 months, oh no... it's useful now... can irritate me enough to swing towards the "welp... I'm out." position.

And that's why I hoard trap parts... though recently, I've trimmed to only keeping 1 stack of 1,000 of each... which means... I'm caring less about the game.

Personal anecdote, I know, but there it is. That's why we don't just do the 4 steps described above.

Side Note = If you can't relate to emotions determining behaviour, here's a sciency part (assuming I have the names right): for people like me, the amygdala beats the pre-frontal cortex... every time.

[droid327]

The meaningful time loss is when comparing quest completion times.
The charge time is time you're not killing enemies (or opening doors), which, in turn, lowers your completion time.

DPS loss would matter because instead of spending more time out of combat preparing traps, you'd spend more time in combat using them. Which, hopefully, would lead to similar quest completion times.

You're supposing some kind of Law of Conservation of XP/Min. There isn't. There's already big disparities in xp/min between builds, even between ranged and melee rogues right now. I don't think that's a meaningful metric, one that should or even could be maintained. I don't think the difference between trap arrows and trap mines is significant enough to warrant the penalty you're suggesting. Which would make trap arrows pointless to use, let me stress again, because you'd essentially always have that penalty since the whole point of the idea is to be able to use them as your regular ammo. Right now the numbers tell you trapping is a dps loss...your line of logic would just turn every build into a dps fighter since anything else is superfluous.

[cdbd3rd]

There is a psychological barrier to just deleting stuff. ....

Or in layman's terms - Here, There Be Packrats. :)

[Xgya]

You're supposing some kind of Law of Conservation of XP/Min. There isn't. There's already big disparities in xp/min between builds, even between ranged and melee rogues right now. I don't think that's a meaningful metric, one that should or even could be maintained. I don't think the difference between trap arrows and trap mines is significant enough to warrant the penalty you're suggesting. Which would make trap arrows pointless to use, let me stress again, because you'd essentially always have that penalty since the whole point of the idea is to be able to use them as your regular ammo. Right now the numbers tell you trapping is a dps loss...your line of logic would just turn every build into a dps fighter since anything else is superfluous.

My line of thinking is that everything that adds to survival should come with something that adds to quest completion time.

Full tank builds have an awful time soloing. Just like full support Clerics do. And that's fairly normal.
Their presence, while it doesn't make the quest faster, definitely makes them safer.

[Cybersquirt]

The meaningful time loss is when comparing quest completion times.
The charge time is time you're not killing enemies (or opening doors), which, in turn, lowers your completion time.

DPS loss would matter because instead of spending more time out of combat preparing traps, you'd spend more time in combat using them. Which, hopefully, would lead to similar quest completion times.

Well, it's a game. I'm more worried about time lost with my parents, while their alive and cogent.

Which gets back to stuff that takes up inventory with no use. And no, .... not there.

Holy and Unholy trap parts have no use, yet they are collectables. Mystical [X] ingredients have no use but they are END REWARD options.

CLEAN THIS **** UP, Standing Stones! If you have any stones. Or if y'all give two stones about this game.