Robe/Outfit Wearers and MMR cap of 50

[Varr]

Monks, casters........monk-caster blends and a few other builds would love to see an item that improved the MRR cap of 50 to a higher number. Or a future outfit that itself allowed a higher MRR cap of 50.

Currently, 5 filigree set of Nystuls set will take cap up 40, or for cloth wearer, to a cap of 90.

I'd love to see a second, and preferably better way to use some of the MRR going unused currently.


I've not posted in many years, but after a few inquiries in other posts went unanswered, I thought I'd see if I'm on an island with this as an annoyance. Being capped at 50 MRR.

It's a little like having a 65 Jump.........being capped at 40, but seeing others jump higher. I want to jump the highest!!! (Don't let the jump analogy derail you, little humor irrelevant to the post request.)

[MistaMagic]

They lowered the MRR because rogues (light armor) and monks (outfits) got evasion and some bright spark Dev did not take into account my poor wizard that does NOT have Evasion and wears cloth and is now capped at 50 MRR

[AbyssalMage]

They lowered the MRR because rogues (light armor) and monks (outfits) got evasion and some bright spark Dev did not take into account my poor wizard that does NOT have Evasion and wears cloth and is now capped at 50 MRR

Actually they did it for balance (which was a good thing). When you create/implement a bad idea (i.e. PRR/MRR) you better implement something to prevent obvious abuse.

[Saekee]

Actually they did it for balance (which was a good thing). When you create/implement a bad idea (i.e. PRR/MRR) you better implement something to prevent obvious abuse.
Perhaps there should be a PRR cap. Never understood how someone nekkid has more PRR than a warrior in plate and tower shield.

[Chai]

Casters are supposed to be more fragile than rogues and monks.

[J1NG]

Perhaps there should be a PRR cap. Never understood how someone nekkid has more PRR than a warrior in plate and tower shield.

I would normally agree with ideas like this. But there's a few issues in this idea:

1. The rough range of PRR and MRR for cloth/light users for above average (invested character play) is in the region of 200 PRR and 100 MRR in combination with HP, saves and evasion. This just about is enough to take on a big hit on certain Hard runs now (or chain of hits), to say nothing of Elite or Reaper.

2. If capped, but the damage curve of enemies remains the same, all you have is the so called "Heavy Melee" (tanks in short using PRR/MRR, AC and HP) surviving and no Light Melee surviving anything. Therefore something needs to give. Until the damage curve is altered, the PRR/MRR situation for Light Melee needs to remain the same at the very least.

3. If Heavy Melee users feel that their protections aren't enough, and I feel they may have enough really, but dps may need a bigger boost. What you should be asking for is buffs in that regard and give reasons why that should be the case. A good one will be that Light Melee appears to have reached a stage where this is acceptable now for them (defence + offence combined), but Heavy Melee comparatively don't have enough HP/AC/PRR/MRR to equate the same level of protection and damage output that is enjoyed the Light Melee.

Capping PRR/MRR right now isn't the best option. It would be if the devs do something about the damage output from enemies, if not, it's a bad idea.

J1NG

[Chai]

I would normally agree with ideas like this. But there's a few issues in this idea:

1. The rough range of PRR and MRR for cloth/light users for above average (invested character play) is in the region of 200 PRR and 100 MRR in combination with HP, saves and evasion. This just about is enough to take on a big hit on certain Hard runs now (or chain of hits), to say nothing of Elite or Reaper.

2. If capped, but the damage curve of enemies remains the same, all you have is the so called "Heavy Melee" (tanks in short using PRR/MRR, AC and HP) surviving and no Light Melee surviving anything. Therefore something needs to give. Until the damage curve is altered, the PRR/MRR situation for Light Melee needs to remain the same at the very least.

3. If Heavy Melee users feel that their protections aren't enough, and I feel they may have enough really, but dps may need a bigger boost. What you should be asking for is buffs in that regard and give reasons why that should be the case. A good one will be that Light Melee appears to have reached a stage where this is acceptable now for them (defence + offence combined), but Heavy Melee comparatively don't have enough HP/AC/PRR/MRR to equate the same level of protection and damage output that is enjoyed the Light Melee.

Capping PRR/MRR right now isn't the best option. It would be if the devs do something about the damage output from enemies, if not, it's a bad idea.

J1NG

Part of the issue is dodge cap and miss chance -vs- PRR as well. Monks having similar PRR to metal clad tanks would be just as absurd as tanks having the same/similar miss chance as a monk.

With monks having no cap/high cap to either, even having slightly less PRR means having better defenses than a fully kitted heavy tank.

I mean, Im fine if they want to keep it how it is - as this is hardly a balanced game to begin with and there are things far more out of wack, but if we're talking game balance....

[Varr]

Philosophically I agree a Pali in full plate and tower shield should have dynamically more PRR than a Caster or Monk in an outfit.

But that is not what I'm inquiring about. I'd like that Caster (who in this game does not really have counter/defensive casting) and other types of outfit wearers, be able to utilize the MRR they have piled up which easily ranges past 50.

Excluding the PRR component, there is only one very inelegant way to lift MRR past 50 currently. I'd like a second path to do so.

A raid level outfit to come out with MRR cap of 100, or a ring I can wear that slides MRR up to 80.......or something other than 5 piece Filigree set.

[J1NG]

Part of the issue is dodge cap and miss chance -vs- PRR as well. Monks having similar PRR to metal clad tanks would be just as absurd as tanks having the same/similar miss chance as a monk.

With monks having no cap/high cap to either, even having slightly less PRR means having better defenses than a fully kitted heavy tank.

I mean, Im fine if they want to keep it how it is - as this is hardly a balanced game to begin with and there are things far more out of wack, but if we're talking game balance....

I'm afraid I have to disagree. I have been building miss chance melee for the last few years since it became viable, and I can tell you that unless you are able to rock 100% of anything, the miss chance means nothing once the miss chance fails, because you still require PRR/MRR to defend against damage "When, not If" it gets through, and it will, eventually (barring a certain build that has 100% Dodge uptime, but that requires triple completionist which I'm not bothered enough to make). And that is simply unsuitable, because of so many ways to bypass the many forms of Miss Chance as well (True Seeing, limited VIABLE Dodge - ie 100+%, Champion buffs, etc), and the damage output remains too high.

It's not an "either or" situation, all melee should be aiming for as much as possible (and from my experience, Light Melee can reasonably expect 200 PRR, 200 AC, 1600+ HP, High Saves, ~40-50 Dodge, 90-100 MRR and maintain dps output when fully invested into), Heavy Melee just needs enough buffs to reach that parity going with what they specialise towards; AC/HP/PRR/MRR - which, they currently do not do.

Again, I would say that those of Heavy Melee require many more suitable buffs to reach parity with a high end Light Melee, although not necessarily through the same means (via Miss Chance). But capping on Light Melee/Casters is not that approach.

J1NG

[Cantor]

Perhaps there should be a PRR cap. Never understood how someone nekkid has more PRR than a warrior in plate and tower shield.

Agree. But I also think casters should have higher mrr cap being you know magically inclined.

[NemesisAlien]

Casters are supposed to be more fragile than rogues and monks.

Casters are suppose to have the buffs to become unfragile...

[J1NG]

Casters are suppose to have the buffs to become unfragile...

I think this is a good reason for the Devs to consider implementing changes that permit casters to be able to utilise spells to actually do just that. Rather than lump casters into the Melee mix and earn their protection the same way.

J1NG

[Vish]

What's not really mentioned here is dodge, mdb

Cloth is 25
In ravenloft,
Light is 20
Medium is 10
Heavy is 8

Sharn didn't give mdb on stats

So the upside of cloth armor is higher dodge chance
It goes hand in hand with evasion
Tho likely light armor may be the best trade off,
Since it has a 100 mrr cap
But another trade off is what enhancements or feats are needed to raise this

I do generally agree a Mage or caster should get unlimited? Mrr
Since magic is their strength not their weakness

But again, it's more about evasion
Since that is a direct bypass for even needing mrr
And evasion is generally restricted to no or light armor

Maybe they can caveat casters in robes to have no mrr cap?
But still have mrr cap if toon has evasion?

[LurkingVeteran]

Casters are suppose to have the buffs to become unfragile...

Good point. Displacement is still good, and situationally Shield, but that's pretty much it.

Mage Armor, False Life, Bear's Endurance, Globe of Invulnerability etc are in a sad state, and many of the best defensive ones were never implemented.

They should implement more spells like Warlock Bat Swarm, except put it on lower CDs to make it actually useful.

[J1NG]

What's not really mentioned here is dodge, mdb

That's probably because it has nothing to do with MRR and energy reduction. :)


So the upside of cloth armor is higher dodge chance
It goes hand in hand with evasion

Actually, no. There are just as many reasons for and otherwise, as well as for Light Armour.


But again, it's more about evasion
Since that is a direct bypass for even needing mrr
And evasion is generally restricted to no or light armor

Maybe they can caveat casters in robes to have no mrr cap?
But still have mrr cap if toon has evasion?

Players who are clamouring for caps to anything clearly haven't been playing all the classes at end game and everything prior to end game.

The devs, anticipating Evasion toons needing a challenge, created many spells and implemented enemies to use THOSE specific "no evasion" spells BEFORE MRR was even implemented as a means to counter Evasion. Meaning MRR is just as important, no matter the character type, since the DC of many high end spells shoot beyond what is reasonable to obtain as well for Evasion Reflex Saves on a Melee. And Improved Evasion only at best gives you a reduction of 50%, assuming it was a spell that permitted evasion, which is gradually getting less and less that is used by enemies in DDO where you really want it to matter.

In short, since most stuff ignore it when thrown by enemies where damage numbers number into the four digit spectrum or a multitude of three digits, it's basically a broken ability in most cases. Whilst the damage curve done by the spells thrown about keep increasing and Evasion isn't applying.

Therefore, asking for Caps is not recommended, and another approach is needed. Since ALL toons need as much protection as possible with the general overal (heavily invested toon) caps right now, not less.

J1NG

[NemesisAlien]

I think this is a good reason for the Devs to consider implementing changes that permit casters to be able to utilise spells to actually do just that. Rather than lump casters into the Melee mix and earn their protection the same way.

J1NG


Good point. Displacement is still good, and situationally Shield, but that's pretty much it.

Mage Armor, False Life, Bear's Endurance, Globe of Invulnerability etc are in a sad state, and many of the best defensive ones were never implemented.

They should implement more spells like Warlock Bat Swarm, except put it on lower CDs to make it actually useful.

Still the buffs end at 20, not 30...

[J1NG]

Still the buffs end at 20, not 30...

Which is why we need to lobby for changes there. :)

J1NG

[NemesisAlien]

Btw monks suppose to get armor/ prr/ mrr/ spell resist/ elemental resist/ dodge/ run speed/ attack speed/ hit/ damage as they level, by end game monks are suppose to be meta.

[Varr]

Level 12 now on Teifling life #2......already MRR capped at 50. Ughhhhh

[banjo174]

Casters are suppose to have the buffs to become unfragile...

Totally makes sense! Lets give the class thats supposed to be the highest form of damage dealing.. The ability to become a tank! I approve!

[NemesisAlien]

Totally makes sense! Lets give the class thats supposed to be the highest form of damage dealing.. The ability to become a tank! I approve!

https://media.giphy.com/media/WLxnzjxV7aIiQ/giphy.gif

[J-mann]

Totally makes sense! Lets give the class thats supposed to be the highest form of damage dealing.. The ability to become a tank! I approve!

Apparently you have never seen how tanky a prepped caster can be in table top. It can get pretty crazy.

[cru121]

I have proposed before:
* Remove the MRR cap
* Add a multiplier to effective MRR depending on armor worn, for example: Robes: 0.5, Light Armor 0.75, Medium 1, Heavy 1.25

Instead I suspect Sharn is gonna have some monk friendly filigree set.

[Shadow_Jumper]

Apparently you have never seen how tanky a prepped caster can be in table top. It can get pretty crazy.

My caster has 190 PRR and 154 MRR :D

[AbyssalMage]

Philosophically I agree a Pali in full plate and tower shield should have dynamically more PRR than a Caster or Monk in an outfit.

But that is not what I'm inquiring about. I'd like that Caster (who in this game does not really have counter/defensive casting) and other types of outfit wearers, be able to utilize the MRR they have piled up which easily ranges past 50.

Excluding the PRR component, there is only one very inelegant way to lift MRR past 50 currently. I'd like a second path to do so.

A raid level outfit to come out with MRR cap of 100, or a ring I can wear that slides MRR up to 80.......or something other than 5 piece Filigree set.
A caster, which did occur for awhile, ran around in Heavy Armor. It may be easier for SSG to just un-nerf the nerf they implemented. Takes a whole lot less programming/coding.

The other option is to sacrifice your capstone on a caster for the ability to wear armor which may be viable simply because of the Power Creep introduced in the game. Once you reach the DC threshold, anything over is prime real estate to begin adding something else to the build. Yeah, I understand you want to wear pajama's or remain pure, SSG is the one you need to petition for that. So, use those racial AP's to reduce ASF, slot your 20% ASF, and dip into EK. We are going back to the future :)

[AbyssalMage]

What's not really mentioned here is dodge, mdb

Cloth is 25
In ravenloft,
Light is 20
Medium is 10
Heavy is 8

Sharn didn't give mdb on stats

So the upside of cloth armor is higher dodge chance
It goes hand in hand with evasion
Tho likely light armor may be the best trade off,
Since it has a 100 mrr cap
But another trade off is what enhancements or feats are needed to raise this

I do generally agree a Mage or caster should get unlimited? Mrr
Since magic is their strength not their weakness

But again, it's more about evasion
Since that is a direct bypass for even needing mrr
And evasion is generally restricted to no or light armor

Maybe they can caveat casters in robes to have no mrr cap?
But still have mrr cap if toon has evasion?
They can always give Casters a feat (that doesn't exist in 3.5) that removes the MRR cap. An auto granted feat at 20 to prevent EK 18/2 Wizard/Monk abuse.

[Varr]

They can always give Casters a feat (that doesn't exist in 3.5) that removes the MRR cap. An auto granted feat at 20 to prevent EK 18/2 Wizard/Monk abuse.

Alas, I've spent 100 pls becoming a Lich/Monk and am one of the abusers if you would call my sweet sweet build that. Cant wear armor, and as a build that is inherently a jack of all trades, would just like a way to use some of the 80-100 MRR I end up with. We are talking shifting from 50 (33%) to 100 (50%) damage mitigation.

The 17% is all I'm hunting after. And not asking for free willing to invest to make it happen, a slot of gear, a less punitive set of filigree, probably even a feat. Conceptually, I cant imagine a build that should take less damage from magic than a 18/2 Lich/Monk........but not asking for the moon, just a way to slide the scale towards enveloping the built up MRR that falls into my toons lap.

[Windaar]

What's not really mentioned here is dodge, mdb

But again, it's more about evasion
Since that is a direct bypass for even needing mrr
And evasion is generally restricted to no or light armor

Maybe they can caveat casters in robes to have no mrr cap?
But still have mrr cap if toon has evasion?


As a player of several evasion toons at cap, both outfit and light armor users, the cap of 50 MRR for outfits is a problem. there are plenty of mobs that use spells that are not effected by evasion. then you have at least 2 raids in which evasion means nothing, and having low MRR is a death sentence (Riding the Storm Out and Killing Time. RtSO does not even take into account reflex saves for the electric damage, let alone evasion. the same with the breath attack of Kor Kaza in KT, which deals Electric and Chaos damage, and has an MRR-lowering stacking debuff).

I will even go into Strahd in RL, and if during the end fight I get targeted by the brides, it's gg, as the 50 MRR is not enough even with other defences in place. I have no choice sometimes but to run the toons with the light armor in order to have the MRR to survive. The 50 cap was brought out without taking into account the fact that the game has mobs designed to hit with spells regardless of evasion or reflex saves.

[AbyssalMage]

As a player of several evasion toons at cap, both outfit and light armor users, the cap of 50 MRR for outfits is a problem. there are plenty of mobs that use spells that are not effected by evasion. then you have at least 2 raids in which evasion means nothing, and having low MRR is a death sentence (Riding the Storm Out and Killing Time. RtSO does not even take into account reflex saves for the electric damage, let alone evasion. the same with the breath attack of Kor Kaza in KT, which deals Electric and Chaos damage, and has an MRR-lowering stacking debuff).

I will even go into Strahd in RL, and if during the end fight I get targeted by the brides, it's gg, as the 50 MRR is not enough even with other defences in place. I have no choice sometimes but to run the toons with the light armor in order to have the MRR to survive. The 50 cap was brought out without taking into account the fact that the game has mobs designed to hit with spells regardless of evasion or reflex saves.
That was intended. For a long life of the game Evasion was King. Heavy Armor then took the mantle for a very brief time before relinquishing it back to Evasion. Read the other forum posts, Heavy Armor users are complaining because the MRR they also receive is mostly useless in the same content because of the untyped/chaos damage being used against everyone.

[J1NG]

That was intended. For a long life of the game Evasion was King. Heavy Armor then took the mantle for a very brief time before relinquishing it back to Evasion. Read the other forum posts, Heavy Armor users are complaining because the MRR they also receive is mostly useless in the same content because of the untyped/chaos damage being used against everyone.

Untyped is never reduced. Chaotic damage is reduced however.

As I have posted previously, Light Melee as per the Dev description has reached a stage where it is viable in many stages so long as it is invested into. Heavy Melee feeling they are being shortchanged, should lobby for further necessary buffs to make it comparable to the combined abilities available to Light Melee, not ask for capping of Light Melee; that does no one any good other than someone with an axe to grind.

J1NG

[MaeveTuohy]

Casters are supposed to be more fragile than rogues and monks.

In relation to physical damage, that is certainly true. And in general they have fewer HP, as befits the archetype.

However, arcane casters should also have an enhanced resistance to magic. This is expressed partly through spell-based buffs, but I feel ought also to be expressed through some form of enhanced ability to resist magic and its effects. Given the game has no counter magic and spell resistance does not really work against damaging attacks, the complement ought to be enhanced MRR.

That said, it would need to be done in concert with a reduction (via a cap) in PRR.

[Kutalp]

I agree with Varr.


After long years of a break to the game and back; I have also realised wearing heavy armor is almost allways easier than robes now. Magical Resistances being that high at plate armors makes no sense. D&D wise. Heavy armor giving extra hit point and physical damage reduction would make sense.


I have been playing with a heavy evasion build rogue/barb/fighter combo and the best I could do was to place the Vistani tree as the core of the build. Reasoning behind this is stacking active clicky burst bonus to to existing Barbarian and Rogue dodge/Uncanny dodge bonuses. Top of those, Stalward defender stance and Occult slayer... ! It is an Aberration I am telling you. All that is to make the evasive/dodgy build run smooth with the lag spikes.


Not even sure how much of the passive or active MRR from items and enhancement trees work by means of magical resistance. (SR is another point ) Only sure of Evasion rates and PRR.


Robe evasion or robe Light armor builds are no way near to Heavy armor build which consists of grabbing a Heavy armor and wearing it. It should not be this way about MRR and physical avoidance. It makes sense for absorbing and resisting Physical damage.


Evasion is most probably better for AOE wise ? (without all that item,feat,enhancement and Vistani active clickies %40 passive-%100 Active Dodge-Displacement scrolls over those are also usefull;anyhow doesnt count since its not the build itself but items compared to wearing a Heavy armor without any enhancements or feats.

Over %60 of the time it works great-Thanks to swap/timing Barb/Rogue uncanny dodge and Vistani active clickies. Anyhow when gets hit by Physical/Magical combo champions, Swap those wands tumbling away. Rinse and repeat.)


Not to get far away the subject. MRR Cap and viability of Robe builds...(Get it real, although I enjoy the evading dodgy hero flavor there I d like to tell Good luck to heavy evasion builds at Epic Elite, R3-5 Reapers and up) :rolleyes:

[Pyed-Pyper]

In relation to physical damage, that is certainly true. And in general they have fewer HP, as befits the archetype.

However, arcane casters should also have an enhanced resistance to magic. This is expressed partly through spell-based buffs, but I feel ought also to be expressed through some form of enhanced ability to resist magic and its effects. Given the game has no counter magic and spell resistance does not really work against damaging attacks, the complement ought to be enhanced MRR.

That said, it would need to be done in concert with a reduction (via a cap) in PRR.


In my opinion, the MRR/PRR system should follow the general guidelines of

armor light to heavy, PRR increases
armor light to heavy, MRR decreases

so that a combined graph would look something like PRR y=x^2, MRR y= 1/x, and
so that light or medium would have the highest of both PRR and MRR.

If monks are a concern, add auto-granted MRR feats/boosts to arcane* caster classes, similarly to how Warlock get occasional increases.

* warlock is a divine class, despite what SSG claims

[Rog]

my monk has a 90mmr and a 303 prr
defense at 30. at 85%. i go 25% incorporeal.
displacement pot when needed.
I am pretty happy with my build.
mojomuscle

[SpartanKiller13]

Apparently you have never seen how tanky a prepped caster can be in table top. It can get pretty crazy.

My caster has 306 PRR, 225 MRR, 190 AC, and chills with 3500 HP+temps. 11 Cleric levels and 6 Warlock levels, definitely most the the tanking comes from the 3 Paladin levels :rolleyes:

If you're going to argue prepped, argue prepped in DDO as well. I'm sure I could do a lot better if I discarded the 11 Cleric levels, but I wanted quickened Heal & Rez (and forgot US T5 has rez lol).

[Varr]

My caster has 306 PRR, 225 MRR, 190 AC, and chills with 3500 HP+temps. 11 Cleric levels and 6 Warlock levels, definitely most the the tanking comes from the 3 Paladin levels :rolleyes:

If you're going to argue prepped, argue prepped in DDO as well. I'm sure I could do a lot better if I discarded the 11 Cleric levels, but I wanted quickened Heal & Rez (and forgot US T5 has rez lol).

So many sweet builds...…….how do those clever developers challenge a 225 Mrr build like this without trucking an outfit wearer with 50 Mrr. Oh yea, they truck the outfit wearers. #movemrrto100, #casterslifesmatter, #monksarepeople2, #justgivemeabetterwaytoliftmrronoutfitwearerspast5 0

[J1NG]

Again, I'd suggest a modification to the damage curve that the Devs have implemented, and then work on creating more creating creative ways for enemies to challenge players instead and new ways to challenge players. When everything is simply an increase of damage, there will always be "Haves" and "Have nots" because the curve keeps ramping up, but all the existing protections are stuck as they are.

J1NG

[Cantor]

Maybe robes and outfits should be different types, and you cannot evade in robes but they have big bonuses to mrr. (In game it might look something like move robes to an exotic proficiency granted by magical training)

This makes sense on all levels, game balance and lore.
really??? evading in big long heavy robes?
really??? a wizard can't absorb/redirect magical energies as well as a thug in heavy armor?

Or even tie it to class levels, each arcane lore feat adds to your mrr cap.

[Chai]

In relation to physical damage, that is certainly true. And in general they have fewer HP, as befits the archetype.

However, arcane casters should also have an enhanced resistance to magic. This is expressed partly through spell-based buffs, but I feel ought also to be expressed through some form of enhanced ability to resist magic and its effects. Given the game has no counter magic and spell resistance does not really work against damaging attacks, the complement ought to be enhanced MRR.

That said, it would need to be done in concert with a reduction (via a cap) in PRR.

D&D only provides this through buffs, not innate class abilities.

Part of the issue is PRR and MRR are completely made up, do not follow the spirit of D&D, but more like follow the spirit of other MMOs which use mitigation rather than AC.

[Chai]

Maybe robes and outfits should be different types, and you cannot evade in robes but they have big bonuses to mrr. (In game it might look something like move robes to an exotic proficiency granted by magical training)

This makes sense on all levels, game balance and lore.
really??? evading in big long heavy robes?
really??? a wizard can't absorb/redirect magical energies as well as a thug in heavy armor?

Then every monk takes the magical training feat. :p

In DDO they could put something like this in the upper tiers of a PRE, like EK.

[SpartanKiller13]

Maybe robes and outfits should be different types, and you cannot evade in robes but they have big bonuses to mrr. (In game it might look something like move robes to an exotic proficiency granted by magical training)

This makes sense on all levels, game balance and lore.
really??? evading in big long heavy robes?
really??? a wizard can't absorb/redirect magical energies as well as a thug in heavy armor?

It's not a lot harder to evade in plate vs in long heavy robes :) plate isn't nearly as restricting as pop culture indicates.

I don't think MRR is about redirecting magical energy via willpower etc, otherwise Divine & Arcane magic would need different stats etc.

But if you had Evasion on plate tanks and MRR on Wizards, what's the difference between the two?

[Ovrad]

I have proposed before:
* Remove the MRR cap
* Add a multiplier to effective MRR depending on armor worn, for example: Robes: 0.5, Light Armor 0.75, Medium 1, Heavy 1.25

Instead I suspect Sharn is gonna have some monk friendly filigree set.

Seriously, this is a way better solution than caps. The cap was ok when it came out, but it's horribly outdated by now. Since RL, single items can give you more than 50 MRR on their own. As far as TRs go, you can hit the 50 MRR mark with cloth at around lv 10 if you put somewhat effort into it. Everything continues to grow in DDO, but the caps remain static. That is a problem.

As people have pointed out, MRR caps were a way to balance how overpowered evasion was. And don't get me wrong it was. Heavy armor is just given a bunch of free MRR for balance, even though it makes no sense context-wise. But since almost all spells in endgame content no longer give you a reflex save, evasion isn't what it used to be, and even though the magic damage keeps going up, the mitigation stays the same for cloth/light armor users.

It sucks that my bonus MRR from PLs does nothing. It sucks that my MRR tome does nothing. It sucks that no matter how much I try to optimize, there is no way to get past a certain number (except for 1 filigree).

Having a multiplier would make progression possible again, while still keeping some strength and weakness to the various armor types. (The numbers might need adjustment though, heavy armor getting 1.25x what they currently have is a bit much, they'd probably need to adjust the base "free" MRR of armors, but the idea has a lot of merit)

[boredGamer]

It doesn't invalidate your point (which I'm not agreeing with or disagreeing with) - but you keep saying 1 way, and it's not 1 way:

https://ddowiki.com/page/Magical_Resistance_Rating

Increasing MRR cap
Few rare effects exist that allow your character to increase the MRR cap restriction imposed by your armor.

Beacon of Magic item sets: +10 heroic / +20 legendary for three piece item set
Frozen Wanderer: +10 for three piece filigree set
Nystul's Mystical Defense: +40 for five piece filigree set

Seems like they keep adding ways, so maybe they will.

[J1NG]

Seriously, this is a way better solution than caps. The cap was ok when it came out, but it's horribly outdated by now. Since RL, single items can give you more than 50 MRR on their own. As far as TRs go, you can hit the 50 MRR mark with cloth at around lv 10 if you put somewhat effort into it. Everything continues to grow in DDO, but the caps remain static. That is a problem.

Agreed.


As people have pointed out, MRR caps were a way to balance how overpowered evasion was. And don't get me wrong it was. Heavy armor is just given a bunch of free MRR for balance, even though it makes no sense context-wise. But since almost all spells in endgame content no longer give you a reflex save, evasion isn't what it used to be, and even though the magic damage keeps going up, the mitigation stays the same for cloth/light armor users.

Again, agreed.


It sucks that my bonus MRR from PLs does nothing. It sucks that my MRR tome does nothing. It sucks that no matter how much I try to optimize, there is no way to get past a certain number (except for 1 filigree).

Same.


Having a multiplier would make progression possible again, while still keeping some strength and weakness to the various armor types. (The numbers might need adjustment though, heavy armor getting 1.25x what they currently have is a bit much, they'd probably need to adjust the base "free" MRR of armors, but the idea has a lot of merit)

Er... Those numbers don't work well and instead need to start from "1.0" for Cloth, otherwise all you are doing is giving a Cap of 50, to changing it to... well. Largely 50, because most Cloth/Light Armour users have enough to source around 100 MRR anyway under most instances so it becomes 50 MRR again. Which is an even bigger penalty than before.

So something more akin to:
Cloth: 1.0 x MRR
Light: 1.2 x MRR
Medium: 1.5 x MRR
Heavy: 1.9 x MRR

But again, these are just caps that'll need to be altered again at some point, so I'd rather see the REAL issue get a work over, and that is the damage curve from enemies get some changes.

J1NG

[Varr]

It doesn't invalidate your point (which I'm not agreeing with or disagreeing with) - but you keep saying 1 way, and it's not 1 way:

https://ddowiki.com/page/Magical_Resistance_Rating

Increasing MRR cap
Few rare effects exist that allow your character to increase the MRR cap restriction imposed by your armor.

Beacon of Magic item sets: +10 heroic / +20 legendary for three piece item set
Frozen Wanderer: +10 for three piece filigree set
Nystul's Mystical Defense: +40 for five piece filigree set

Seems like they keep adding ways, so maybe they will.

Excellent point here, Forum rep incoming...…….however, while aware, only the shift from 50 to 90+ is impactful enough for me to pay attention to. The +40 for 5 set Nystals is the type of improvement I'm hunting a second solution to. You are 100% correct, there are +10 and +20 bumps available to squeeze in if so inclined.

I've not paid any attention to the 3 piece Legendary Beacon Set and probably will poke around and see if that set could work for me. I currently use about none of the Ravenloft stuff, while having much of it. So many other gear configs I prefer.

[Varr]

Also noticed another +20 path with coming gear set. Not sure if I missed this before or my whining has had it added, but either way.....a path to go from 50 to 70. Don't love the gear for my config, but not instant that the MRR improvement be good for me too. The set bonus's are all winners for me.


Esoteric Influence Set Items
Set 7 (Spell DPS) - Esoteric Influence:

Set Bonus: +2/4 Artifact to Spell Focus Mastery, +20/50 Universal Spell Power, +2/3 to INT/WIS/CHA, +10/20 MRR Cap