Typical silent avenger setup for melee DPS?

[Question2005]

So I recently got the molten silver gauntlets and was thinking about swapping to the silent avenger set at cap, but I'm struggling to fit in all the stats I need. Playing 2H wolf druid atm btw.

I started making a list and ended up with :

Trying to fit in Silent Avenger Set with Dodge bonus and Stunning + Vertigo

Helm : Mighty Stormreach Guardian's Helm (Str, Stunning, Deadly, Seeker)

Chest : Mist Laden Vestments (Silent Avenger)

Belt : Braided Cutcord (Silent Avenger, Blurry, Quality Dodge, Dex, Quality Dex)

Bracers : Lore-Fueled Packbanner (Adherent, Insightful Con, Insightful Doublestrike, Druidic Stoneshape)

Cloak: Shadowhail Cloak (Silent Avenger, Hide, Deception, Ghostly)

Goggles : Precision Lenses (Insightful Strength, Speed, Action Boost enhancement)

Gloves : Molten Silver Gauntlets (Adherent, Deadly, Doublestrike, Armor Piercing)

Necklace : Ward Inscribed Pendant (Con, Natural armor)

Trinket : Curse bane focus (Magical Sheltering, Spell Saves)

Ring 1 : Ring of Nightfall (Adherent, Insightful Deadly)

Ring 2 : Ring of Prowess (Melee power, Accuracy)

Boots : Shadow's Footsteps (Adherent, Dex, Insightful Dodge)

Quiver : Quiver of Alacrity (Striding)

Bold = Silent Avenger set, Italics = probably BIS.

But I dont have enough slots left to get the Adherent set bonus without making a huge sacrifice. Any suggestions? Is Silent Avenger not viable without additional raid gear?

Edit : Also what do people use to stack Hide bonuses for Scion of Ethereal?

[askrj1]

If you're not using Crypt Raider swap out neck and trinket. NatAC can be swapped to boots with Flightfoot (also FoM slot), the dex is duplicate with belt. If your overall saves are ok that leaves you needing to reslot con and MRR which can be done through crafting, ins dodge only if you're not already filling up your dodge cap. Both neck and trinket can fit SL craft items, Echo of Ravenkind is also generally BiS for DPS trinkets, which will fit your con.

Ring of Prowess can be dropped for a SL for crafting accuracy + other stats, provided you can forgo the 8 MP but that's up to you.

Best DPS helm should still be Executioner's, but you will need to reslot stun and str. Consider moving that to one of the crafted slots.

For hide 22 from Shadowhail is fair game. I wouldn't go out of my way to slot ins/qhide.

[Question2005]

I would rather not farm legendary slave lords though, i really hate that chain.

I could use cannith crafting instead, but the gap between cannith crafted and named items at cap is huge.

I dont have a normal dodge item in that list i posted, which also means i cant hit dodge cap in light armor.

Dont have echo of ravenkind unfortunately.

So how many raid items do you need to get a silent avenger setup working without lacking something critical like dodge or MRR? I thought Molten Silver Gauntlets was the only one required at first...

Are you sure 22 hide from shadowhail is enough for scion of ethereal? Maybe its because im not running a full rare prowess set or whatever people are doing to achieve 300 MP at cap, but at cap i only have about 200 MP and some calculations showed that I would need a hide modifier of 80+ at least for Scion of Ethereal to be better than Scion of Arborea.

[askrj1]

I would rather not farm legendary slave lords though, i really hate that chain.

I could use cannith crafting instead, but the gap between cannith crafted and named items at cap is huge.

I dont have a normal dodge item in that list i posted, which also means i cant hit dodge cap in light armor.

Dont have echo of ravenkind unfortunately.

So how many raid items do you need to get a silent avenger setup working without lacking something critical like dodge or MRR? I thought Molten Silver Gauntlets was the only one required at first...

Are you sure 22 hide from shadowhail is enough for scion of ethereal? Maybe its because im not running a full rare prowess set or whatever people are doing to achieve 300 MP at cap, but at cap i only have about 200 MP and some calculations showed that I would need a hide modifier of 80+ at least for Scion of Ethereal to be better than Scion of Arborea.

It depends on what/how you want to fit items. If you're missing dodge on a light build you might get more out of a Cannith dodge piece than insdodge from RL boots, that or use other dodge boots (Cannith can fit, but there are better options in other raid items) and fit other adherent pieces. Keep in mind you can't have -everything-, so prioritize on what you want to fit and start dropping up possibly less important mods.

Assuming you're a pure druid or did not multiclass into other hide classes, that's 11base 10epic 22gear 4scion that adds to 47, before ship, buffs and stats. 80 is still achievable but it will somewhat depend on your dex score, tomes and enhancements. Cap rogues are likely on 100-120, extreme cases are above 130. I don't have the character sheet at hand now for a breakdown so I can't really tell you what you're missing or not. Ethereal might also not be the best Scion feat for you since I'm not seeing any deception gear and I'm not sure if you have much in the way of hard CC or otherwise rendering mobs vulnerable to sneak.

EDIT: Personally I'm not a huge fan of Slave Lords myself, partly because I severely burnt myself out on the chain during release, I ran the entire like 3-4 times daily since the ingredient chests wouldn't ransack. The truth though it's still generally the next BiS for slotting anything you can't fit on named pieces, and sometimes stats that the slot doesn't normally offer on Cannith either. It's also the only reliable slot for qstr4 (either named ring from pt3 or crafted). In some cases Cannith would work, since SL doesn't carry the full range of mods either, but it really depends on what you're trying to fit.

[Gilga1]

I don't know which wolf build you're playing. I see Nightfall, so I suppose you're using Kta with Phasecloak as swap.

Regarding Ethereal, I'd rather use Arborea on wolf.
If you really like Ethereal, probably the best options is to equip a LGS item with +22/+11/+6 Dex skills.
Also, Invisible Cloak of Strahd is better than Shadowhail, but you will need to put ghostly elsewhere.

askrj1 is right, better swap Ward Inscribed Pendant and Curse bane focus.
If you are missing Echo of Ravenkind, Cannith crafting could be a good alternative. I.e. you could put dodge (if you need dodge), healing amp and insightful accuracy on it.
A single slavers item is fast to grind, so I strongly suggest to craft one (just one) to complete your setup.

Or maybe you can just wait for Sharn loot. SA has been a must have for any melee since Ravenloft, I hope that things will change :)

[askrj1]

Regarding Ethereal, I'd rather use Arborea on wolf.
If you really like Ethereal, probably the best options is to equip a LGS item with +22/+11/+6 Dex skills.
Also, Invisible Cloak of Strahd is better than Shadowhail, but you will need to put ghostly elsewhere.

Ghostly is actually generically more useful than invis guard, but yes if you drop eth for arborea then you can drop hide pieces altogether (or if your build has otherwise low sneak damage/proc rates), and Strahd's cloak also fills the MRR slot. You could swap to the raid armour, but then you'll lose fort and parry in turn. Overall drop what seems the least useful to you.

Nightfall is still good for the insdeadly and ref saves (which also goes in Flightfoot though), I'm still intending to use it even though I ran out of points to take KTA on my current build.

[Gilga1]

Nightfall is still good for the insdeadly and ref saves (which also goes in Flightfoot though), I'm still intending to use it even though I ran out of points to take KTA on my current build.

On my wolf, I have insightful deadly on goggles (The Masque) and I use Softsole Slippers as boots (I use DM) so I have ghostly covered. Skipping Nightfall is a good thing imho... there are so many useful rings (i.e. Band of Insightful Commands).

[askrj1]

On my wolf, I have insightful deadly on goggles (The Masque) and I use Softsole Slippers as boots (I use DM) so I have ghostly covered. Skipping Nightfall is a good thing imho... there are so many useful rings (i.e. Band of Insightful Commands).

There are decent rings out there, but it kind of depends on how well can you fit Adherent without it. Generic DPS you will have little use of the other rings besides Cursebane and Nightfall, and you have 2 more slots to fill after trinket, gloves and bracers. I'm inclined to using boots for CC (ins dex) or Blessed Travels (dodge) so there's not a lot of wiggle room.

[Question2005]

It depends on what/how you want to fit items. If you're missing dodge on a light build you might get more out of a Cannith dodge piece than insdodge from RL boots, that or use other dodge boots (Cannith can fit, but there are better options in other raid items) and fit other adherent pieces. Keep in mind you can't have -everything-, so prioritize on what you want to fit and start dropping up possibly less important mods.

Assuming you're a pure druid or did not multiclass into other hide classes, that's 11base 10epic 22gear 4scion that adds to 47, before ship, buffs and stats. 80 is still achievable but it will somewhat depend on your dex score, tomes and enhancements. Cap rogues are likely on 100-120, extreme cases are above 130. I don't have the character sheet at hand now for a breakdown so I can't really tell you what you're missing or not. Ethereal might also not be the best Scion feat for you since I'm not seeing any deception gear and I'm not sure if you have much in the way of hard CC or otherwise rendering mobs vulnerable to sneak.

EDIT: Personally I'm not a huge fan of Slave Lords myself, partly because I severely burnt myself out on the chain during release, I ran the entire like 3-4 times daily since the ingredient chests wouldn't ransack. The truth though it's still generally the next BiS for slotting anything you can't fit on named pieces, and sometimes stats that the slot doesn't normally offer on Cannith either. It's also the only reliable slot for qstr4 (either named ring from pt3 or crafted). In some cases Cannith would work, since SL doesn't carry the full range of mods either, but it really depends on what you're trying to fit.

Its 17 druid/3 fighter. I keep hearing that silent avenger + scion of ethereal is the best for DPS, so i was aiming for that, but im finding it really hard to get the gear to work.

I normally get dodge from the legendary mantle of fury, but i obviously cant use that with the silent avenger set since I need the cloak slot for Shadowhail. And I dont get how you are supposed to fit in deception gear for this. What do people typically use? Do people typically sacrifice a slot for a LGS item to boost hide as far as it can go?

I have a +8 stat tome, but I dont think I used any skill tomes for Hide. Started with 14 dex though. I think 80+ is only at the point where it starts getting slightly better than Scion of Arborea on paper...theres still the problem of not getting sneak attacks at all if you have aggro, which happens a lot outside of raids/reaper with an optimized party. For example, when farming WPM on r1 for sentient xp, I have aggro on bosses almost all the time as there is usually no tank. I dont think I can get 80+ without sacrificing a slot for a LGS item.

For str based melee DPS, I would consider the following to be essential :

-Max dodge
-MRR
-Str
-As much double strike/attack speed as possible
-Vitality

Maybe looking at some optimized builds and seeing what they use might give me some ideas. What does the typical 8 druid/6 cleric/6 barb build use for gear?

[Question2005]

I don't know which wolf build you're playing. I see Nightfall, so I suppose you're using Kta with Phasecloak as swap.

Regarding Ethereal, I'd rather use Arborea on wolf.
If you really like Ethereal, probably the best options is to equip a LGS item with +22/+11/+6 Dex skills.
Also, Invisible Cloak of Strahd is better than Shadowhail, but you will need to put ghostly elsewhere.

askrj1 is right, better swap Ward Inscribed Pendant and Curse bane focus.
If you are missing Echo of Ravenkind, Cannith crafting could be a good alternative. I.e. you could put dodge (if you need dodge), healing amp and insightful accuracy on it.
A single slavers item is fast to grind, so I strongly suggest to craft one (just one) to complete your setup.

Or maybe you can just wait for Sharn loot. SA has been a must have for any melee since Ravenloft, I hope that things will change :)

I simply put in nightfall to try to get the adherent set bonus.

Its not that I like ethereal, but I keep hearing that it is hands down the best choice for DPS along with the silent avenger set, so I was trying to get it to work.

Doesnt a single legendary slavers item require like, 400+ mats to craft or something? That does not sound fast, especially given how large the quests are...

For reference, this is what I typically use at cap with Scion of Arborea, but I only have 60% doublestrike and about 200 MP. Not sure how Im supposed to get 100% doublestrike and 300 MP like what some people have.


Med armor :

Helm : Mighty Stormreach Guardian's Helm (Str, Seeker)

Chest : Traveller's Coat

Belt : Vistani Belt (Vitality, Stunning, Vertigo, Deadly)

Bracers : Lore-Fueled Packbanner (Adherent, Insightful Con, Insightful Doublestrike, Druidic Stoneshape)

Cloak: Legendary Mantle of Fury (Con, Doublestrike)

Goggles : Precision Lenses (Insightful Strength, Speed, Action Boost enhancement)

Gloves : Molten Silver Gauntlets (Adherent, Deadly, Doublestrike, Armor Piercing)

Necklace : Ward Inscribed Pendant (Con, Natural armor)

Trinket : Curse bane focus (Magical Sheltering, Spell Saves)

Ring 1 : Band of Insightful Commands (Insightful Accuracy, Quality Deadly)

Ring 2 : Ring of Prowess (Melee power, Accuracy)

Boots : Shadow's Footsteps (Adherent, Dex)

Quiver : Quiver of Alacrity (Striding)

[askrj1]

Its 17 druid/3 fighter. I keep hearing that silent avenger + scion of ethereal is the best for DPS, so i was aiming for that, but im finding it really hard to get the gear to work.

I normally get dodge from the legendary mantle of fury, but i obviously cant use that with the silent avenger set since I need the cloak slot for Shadowhail. And I dont get how you are supposed to fit in deception gear for this. What do people typically use? Do people typically sacrifice a slot for a LGS item to boost hide as far as it can go?

I have a +8 stat tome, but I dont think I used any skill tomes for Hide. Started with 14 dex though. I think 80+ is only at the point where it starts getting slightly better than Scion of Arborea on paper...theres still the problem of not getting sneak attacks at all if you have aggro, which happens a lot outside of raids/reaper with an optimized party. For example, when farming WPM on r1 for sentient xp, I have aggro on bosses almost all the time as there is usually no tank. I dont think I can get 80+ without sacrificing a slot for a LGS item.

For str based melee DPS, I would consider the following to be essential :

-Max dodge
-MRR
-Str
-As much double strike/attack speed as possible
-Vitality

Maybe looking at some optimized builds and seeing what they use might give me some ideas. What does the typical 8 druid/6 cleric/6 barb build use for gear?

Echo of Ravenkind is an Imp. Deception piece. Consider 22 hide from Shadowhail vs LGS 22/i11/q6 you're only getting 17 more hide ~5.67 sneak damage before scaling, so I wouldn't recommend it per se. Ethereal is not necessarily better, if you find overall performance to be better with Arborea that is fine too. Another possibility is taking up Earth Scion, the acid damage can add up as well and it provides PRR, spell DC bonuses plus some investment in wis you can might land some earthquakes or other druid stuff. There's no "right" answer, just what fits best for you.

Can't really give you much advice for build and gearing for the druid builds, you might want to check the druid forums or specifically post a separate thread on advice for that.

[Saekee]

Doesn't the HS bonus from Spiderskin stack with gear? 17 druid levels so +17 anyway

The ranger spell Camouflage does stack, so guessing here. I thought I had tested this and now I forget

[SpartanKiller13]

So how many raid items do you need to get a silent avenger setup working without lacking something critical like dodge or MRR? I thought Molten Silver Gauntlets was the only one required at first...

Depends on your build lol. My last melee life was using Silent Avenger, and the only raid gear I used was MSG and Bloodrage Chrism (which isn't usable for Druids, but is otherwise BiS for 2H melee).

You can CC Dodge on Belt/Boots/Trinket/Cloak/Bracers, and Insightful Dodge onto Belt/Boots/Trinket. Pick your poison, you're probably going to be missing something if you want max DPS.


Are you sure 22 hide from shadowhail is enough for scion of ethereal? Maybe its because im not running a full rare prowess set or whatever people are doing to achieve 300 MP at cap, but at cap i only have about 200 MP and some calculations showed that I would need a hide modifier of 80+ at least for Scion of Ethereal to be better than Scion of Arborea.

Here's a breakdown of what I think you could reasonably have (given minor changes and like two augments). There's a +3 skill tome listed b/c you can get those fairly easily from Epic Sagas, but that's not make-or-break.

50 Dex:

14 Starting
8 Tome (gratz!)
19 Enhancement (Braided Cutcord)
4 Quality (Braided Cutcord)
2 Profane (Mist-Laden Vestment)
2 Airship
1 Exceptional (Orb of Imperial Blood)


Hide:
11 Ranks
10 Epic
3 Tome (farm Epic Sagas)
20 Dex
22 Enhancement (Shadowhail)
2 Good Luck (Augment)
4 Scion of Ethereal (the point of this exercise)
3 Stealthy (Assuming you're PDK on a Druid/Fighter 2H probably Maul, but Gnome/DG/Human/Halfling/HElf also have it)


Temp Buffs:
4 Morale (GH)
10 Determination (Camouflage scrolled)
3 Airship
17 Spiderskin? Not sure what bonus type this is, but you could test easily.


75 Standing, 92 with buffs, 109 if Spiderskin stacks (thanks Saekee!). If all you need is 80 to break even, that seems pretty doable. My calcs showed I needed 120+ for my last life, but I had a lot of crit profile which makes things harder...

AFAIK the main reason a lot of builds use Ethereal is Sneak of Shadows Rogue PL active feat. At cap, it gives +30 Hide and +15 SA damage, totaling +25 SA damage w/Ethereal; even if the duration is limited, that's still pretty nice for boss fights etc.

Here's the last time I did a max breakdown, sure I'm missing some things though. (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/502724-Highest-you-can-get-Hide?p=6176556&viewfull=1#post6176556)

[Zretch]

Are you a strength or wisdom build?

My wisdom build dog has the Molten Silver gloves, Icon of Ravenloft, and Fleetfoot Necklace. I use cannith crafted boots and goggles for melee alacrity, insightful wis, dodge, transmutation (mass frog), and combat mastery. I use a single crafted Slave Lord's piece (Sheltering for MRR, Accuracy, Vertigo, and Qual Wis). Beyond that, packbanner, fleetfoot, echo, MSG, and perfect pinnacle (I have a splash of monk) gives me Adherent set bonus to go with Silent Avenger bonus (Disciple of the Dawn rather than Mist Laden Vestments).

Yes, it's more raid gear, but it all fits decently. The SL ring and the CC pieces are what brings it together. Fitting in an insightful Wis 9 piece would be build shattering (only non-set heavy armor or raid trinket have it), and the difference between IWis 9 and IWis 7 is pretty negligible vs No IWis at all. :)

Odds are you have some flexibility in your goggles, boots, necklace, and trinket. Make sure you've got Con, ICon, Str/Wis, IStr/IWis, QStr/QWis, melee alacrity, doublestrike, Idoublestrike, Accuracy, Stunning, and Vertigo covered and go from there. Melee DPS can be a very, very tight build, and a single best in slot item my be so disruptive to the build as a whole that it's worth using slightly lesser items that all work together instead.

[Cookiegum]

Goggles : Precision Lenses (Insightful Strength, Speed, Action Boost enhancement)


Do these actually drop in WPM? I've been farming it since release and never ever seen this one item drop.
Sometimes wiki info is wrong, so thought this could be the right time to ask as another.

[SpartanKiller13]

Do these actually drop in WPM? I've been farming it since release and never ever seen this one item drop.
Sometimes wiki info is wrong, so thought this could be the right time to ask as another.

Yeah, I have a pair :) and I'm pretty sure they're from WPM.

How often do you run it? Seems like a long time to not have a pair lol.

[Cookiegum]

How often do you run it?
Daily lol. Range can be a ***** :p

[Zretch]

Do these actually drop in WPM? I've been farming it since release and never ever seen this one item drop.
Sometimes wiki info is wrong, so thought this could be the right time to ask as another.

WPM end chest only.

[SpartanKiller13]

Daily lol. Range can be a ***** :p

251 days since U39 came out. And you've never seen one? I ran it ~25x within three days of release, and saw at least two pair.

WPM drops 5 named items. 33% chance (assuming you're running Elite). 6.6% of each named item, or 93.4% chance of not pulling one.

1-(0.934^251) = 99.9999964% chance you'd have pulled one by now. You're one in 27.7 million if that's the case. Possible, but highly unlikely.

Even if you're running Normal, 1-(0.98^251) = 99.372% chance you'd have pulled one by now. So one in 160 people shares your experience, which I guess isn't as unlikely? Again, presuming you're soloing on Normal, with no rerolls, once/day. If everyone who read this thread tried that we'd probably have at least one similar case.

Either you have the worst luck ever, or maybe you were crunching it back before you wanted a pair? That or you need to group on Elite (6x33% = avg ~2 named pulls at the end chest, 36% that it's pulled).