Lowbie (under 20) & Epic Crafting Master's Gift?

[Bjond]

I want to put Master's Gift augments on my alts. I can acquire more mantles and voices on my main (they're BTC), craft the gift on my main, then slot it in a BTA item for the alt. However, I'd MUCH rather run the quests on my lowbie than my main. They're kinda fun on lowbies and although much faster on the main, it's also on beyond boring.

I'd assumed that epic crafting is only possible on a L20+ character -- likely because it's named "epic" crafting. I don't see anything about it that states an outright restriction, though. It's all implied via ingredients that can only be acquired L20+. However, the G12 Tokens are BTA and could conceivably be used by the lowbie directly if the Altar of Epic Rituals (https://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Crafting) permits it. Unfortunately, I don't have sufficient ingredients lying about in my bank to perform a test.

Has anyone tried using the altar on an under 20 character, ideally for crafting a master's gift?

[Selvera]

Not 100% sure; but I'm pretty sure I made a few DR bypass augments with tokens of the 12 to beat down 'arry on a pre-20 character before.

However, if you put the master's gift in a BTA item; the item remains BTA, so you can use it on any character.

[Grace_ana]

You can use the altar on any character, providing you have the necessary ingredients. I've done it lots of times.

[jskinner937]

You can use the altar on any character, providing you have the necessary ingredients. I've done it lots of times.

I can confirm that I have put mastergifts on a random loot gen lvl 1 pair of gloves with a colorless slot and it is now BTC.

[spyder7723]

I can confirm that I have put mastergifts on a random loot gen lvl 1 pair of gloves with a colorless slot and it is now BTC.

where you messed up is you used random loot gen. Slot it into an item that is bta(cannith crafted being the easiest to aquire) it stays bta. I have several pieces with a master's gift slotted and all are bta.

[Bjond]

Slot it into an item that is bta(cannith crafted being the easiest to aquire) it stays bta. I have several pieces with a master's gift slotted and all are bta.

I can confirm the "stays BTA" part, too -- that's why I was doing it on my main. My first gift went into a symbol of the slave lords and it converted the BTC gift into BTA (or didn't change the BTA aspect of the symbol if you prefer to view it from that angle).


You can use the altar on any character, providing you have the necessary ingredients. I've done it lots of times.

Thanks for the confirmations y'all! Running those on an epic character = epic boredom.

[C-Dog]

A "Lowbie" is not "under 20" - the word you're looking for is "Heroic".

A "lowbie" is anything from 1-3 to ~maybe~ as high as 1-7 or so, depending on the context. (I, personally, would never consider "mid-heroic" to be "lowbie", only the first 1/3 of Heroics, at the extreme.)


That off my chest, the altar doesn't care what level the alt is that uses it. The "Epic" in Epic Crafting refers to the materials used (Greater ToT), not the character using them.

[archest]

you can craft it under level but cat use it till you level. if its level one augment once crafted than you can use it. in a proper augment slot .
keeping in mind the mark for the extra slot cant be used till after level 10. canith crafting.

as well note: (Greater tokens of the Twelve are only from epic raids.)

[Bjond]

A "Lowbie" is not "under 20" - the word you're looking for is "Heroic".

A "lowbie" is anything from 1-3 to ~maybe~ as high as 1-7 or so, depending on the context. (I, personally, would never consider "mid-heroic" to be "lowbie", only the first 1/3 of Heroics, at the extreme.)

Using "lowbie" was probably influenced by my (unstated) intent to run the quests on my tiniest alt (L7 atm), but I generalized the question to all under-20s. For the low/mid/etc on this game, my own feeling would likely go by how much of the build does the character have?

If it lacks critical features of it's build and barely has any class flavor, that's lowbie. Mid is more nebulous; it's that in-between frustration zone where it feels like the class, has some build features, but it's not all there yet. Either way, though, the general play difference between heroic and epic is rather substantial.

That's something I find rather interesting. IMHO, the sweet spot for PnP D&D is somewhere in the 10~15 range for balance. IIRC, didn't DDO originally release with a level-cap of 10? I seem to recall considering it at release then punting the idea when learning that because under-10 D&D is pointless. Could have been the online NWN instead. It was a while ago.

For DDO now, it feels like about 20~28 for best balance.

[HungarianRhapsody]

I really enjoy my True Seeing goggles of Persuasion (+3 for all Cha skills including UMD) with a Master's Gift slotted in the augment. They're ML 1 and there aren't any goggles that I really care about before I get my Symbol of the Slave Lords out of the bank at level 8 which is where I slot my Master's Gift for the rest of that life.

[Saaluta]

I got the 3 levels of bracers from the remnant collectors and just slot them into the clear spot on those, they remain BTA and can be passed from character to character. For level 1-7, I found a ml 1 bta feather fall ring that I put one on, so I have 4 of them that are in bta items that I just pass thru bank to whomever needs them at the time. You can craft them with a heroic level character as long as you have the necessary mats. I would recommend doing epic chrono and house K dragon raids for the tokens. If you just want to start with one, should only take you about a week if you don't want to use raid timers...or a few hours if you do :)

Saal :)

(You can also advertise in lfm that you are looking for the raid tokens and might get some helpful people who will pass them to you)

If you are on Khyber, I will happily run both of these with you and pass them on :)

[spyder7723]

Epic demon queen is another supply of raid tokens.

[mistress_minx]

I really enjoy my True Seeing goggles of Persuasion (+3 for all Cha skills including UMD) with a Master's Gift slotted in the augment. They're ML 1 and there aren't any goggles that I really care about before I get my Symbol of the Slave Lords out of the bank at level 8 which is where I slot my Master's Gift for the rest of that life.

Where are these goggles found ? I've tried google searching for them, but nobody mentions their location

[spyder7723]

Where are these goggles found ? I've tried google searching for them, but nobody mentions their location

Cannith crafting.

[OzmarDDO]

I really enjoy my True Seeing goggles of Persuasion (+3 for all Cha skills including UMD) with a Master's Gift slotted in the augment. They're ML 1 and there aren't any goggles that I really care about before I get my Symbol of the Slave Lords out of the bank at level 8 which is where I slot my Master's Gift for the rest of that life.

Ok, I'm trying to learn Cannith Crafting, and I gotta ask...

HOW did you make True Seeing goggles of Persuasion which are ML 1?

I'd love to do that...

-Ozmar the Clueless

[Bjond]

Ok, I'm trying to learn Cannith Crafting, and I gotta ask...

HOW did you make True Seeing goggles of Persuasion which are ML 1?

I'd love to do that...

You want EllisDee's Builder Lite tools (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/455712-Character-Builder-Lite), especially the compendium, for Cannith Crafting. It lists literally ALL the locations for every single mat and has average farm time for them with exact speed-routes listed. Without that tool, might as well give up before you start.

You can use the craft planning tool to tell you how to build what you'd like then the compendium to tell you where to get all the parts. For ML1 goggles of true-seeing + blindness immunity (my own favorite): find some goggles with a colorless slot to make a good ML1 blank then get:


Bound Shards: ML1, Blindness Immunity, True Seeing
Highest Crafting Level: 250
510 Essences
15 Mystical Formulas
15 Smoldering Embers
10 Warehouse Ledgers

NB: just 'cuz it's ML1 doesn't mean it only needs no or little Cannith leveling to build it. The ML for Cannith is mostly immaterial to the crafting level needed. All the useful things take a lot of prep. IIRC, it took about 20k? crystals for me to reach cannith level 250 -- pretty much all the crystals I had from one life L1->L30 dissolving all trash.

[OzmarDDO]

You want EllisDee's Builder Lite tools (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/455712-Character-Builder-Lite), especially the compendium, for Cannith Crafting. It lists literally ALL the locations for every single mat and has average farm time for them with exact speed-routes listed. Without that tool, might as well give up before you start.


Thanks! I will definitely look this up...

I guess my confusion is this: from reading up on this, it looks like I need a shard of persuasion (min level 4) and a shard of true seeing (min level 14). I am thinking that these shards add to the ML of the completed item? Or am I wrong in that. I must be or else what you're describing doesn't make sense.

Like I said, I'll read up and try crafting some items to see what happens.

-Ozmar the Slow Learner

[voxson5]

Thanks! I will definitely look this up...

I guess my confusion is this: from reading up on this, it looks like I need a shard of persuasion (min level 4) and a shard of true seeing (min level 14). I am thinking that these shards add to the ML of the completed item? Or am I wrong in that. I must be or else what you're describing doesn't make sense.

Like I said, I'll read up and try crafting some items to see what happens.

-Ozmar the Slow Learner

It doesn't quite work like that.

Basically you take your cleansed for crafting item, apply the level of the item (shard), then apply the prefix/suffix effects (shards). You can also add on a third effect on CC items as long as they are lv10 or higher - note this requires a mark of House Cannith, bought for plat from the patron once you have enough favour, or 195 DDO points from the store.

The effects shards scale to whatever level you have set on the item (https://ddowiki.com/page/Cannith_Crafting/table_3b)

AFAIK, all non-scaling shards (ie persuasion & true seeing) can be applied to an item set to be level 1.

There are some shards which you cannot apply until lv 10, such as parrying.

[OzmarDDO]

It doesn't quite work like that.

Basically you take your cleansed for crafting item, apply the level of the item (shard), then apply the prefix/suffix effects (shards). You can also add on a third effect on CC items as long as they are lv10 or higher - note this requires a mark of House Cannith, bought for plat from the patron once you have enough favour, or 195 DDO points from the store.

The effects shards scale to whatever level you have set on the item (https://ddowiki.com/page/Cannith_Crafting/table_3b)

AFAIK, all non-scaling shards (ie persuasion & true seeing) can be applied to an item set to be level 1.

There are some shards which you cannot apply until lv 10, such as parrying.

Oooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

Well, heck, that makes a lot more sense!!!

Thanks! I thought it was really confusing, but now I think I get it.

I just need tons of crafting Xp and the right ingredients then.

Thanks again! I'm gonna work on this as soon as I can.

-Ozmar the Apprentice Craftsman

[OzmarDDO]

Incidentally, is crafting XP lost through reincarnation?

Heroic/Racial/Iconic Reincarnation?

-Ozmar the Curious

[Garix]

Incidentally, is crafting XP lost through reincarnation?

Heroic/Racial/Iconic Reincarnation?

-Ozmar the Curious

No to all three.

Though in the interest of full disclosure IIRC when they brought out Cannith Crafting (in its first version) the statement was something along the lines of "We have no plans AT THIS TIME to reset crafting XP on reincarnation." That was in the long distant past though so you should be good these days in it being WAI

My crafter is sat at lvl 4 and will never change.

Just in case :)

[OzmarDDO]

No to all three.

Though in the interest of full disclosure IIRC when they brought out Cannith Crafting (in its first version) the statement was something along the lines of "We have no plans AT THIS TIME to reset crafting XP on reincarnation." That was in the long distant past though so you should be good these days in it being WAI

My crafter is sat at lvl 4 and will never change.

Just in case :)

Sweet! thanks. I am working through lives and was curious if I should try to do all my crafting on a diff char to avoid loss of xp...

sounds like I'll be good to focus on my main.

-Ozmar the Focused