The Ranger class in 2019...

[ranran]

(TITLE should be, The RANGED Ranger Class in 2019...)

Hello Everyone!

My very first created character (back in 2006 when the game came out!) was a Ranger/Rogue. I leveled him to 20, then stopped playing for years...

Over the last year or so, have come back and been playing with a group of friends and have had the opportunity to create multiple classes/races and see the state of the game with respect to this class.

Frankly, the Ranger seems severely underpowered when compared to other classes, especially when comparing to repeating crossbow users. I have TR'd that first character, deciding to continue with the Ranger/Rogue theme...but...after having played other ranged characters (repeaters!), I just can't believe the disparity.

Do you know if there are any plans to revamp the Ranger class this year to bring it more in line with other classes? I just finished Korthos.....but was sorely disappointed in his performance.

I feel that the Power Creep over the years has just left the poor Ranger out in the cold....

[IlmerSilverhilt]

Hey Ranran, I guess you mean ranged rangers?

Because I think melee tempests are doing quite good, for ranged ranger the only thing they have going for them is their spells and their fav enemies. A good option is splashing 6 monk for 10 thousand stars (works for bows), so youll have an extra mini-manyshot... Im lvling my AA as a falconer fighter/monk/pally atm works very well... Im doing ranger racials as 18 ranger 2 monk always ranged, but if you could do both melee and ranged which a ranger does well youll have a very strong character I think.

Ilmer

[Hipparan]

Melee Rangers are pretty awesome. Longbow-using Rangers are certainly sub-par but they're a victim of themselves. If you want to make a Ranged character, your best bet is to make a Rogue Mechanic using a Great Crossbow.

Unfortunately, Rangers have access to Arcane Archer which has access to Slayer Arrow. Slayer Arrow is OP when used with Fury of the Wild, getting massive damage over a short period of time with Manyshot. However if you don't want to use Slayer Arrows, then your Ranger is going to be pretty lousy damage-wise compared to other ranged characters.

I'm currently using a pure Ranger with most points spent in Falconry. She's a wisdom-based Ranger who uses Death From Above to instakill enemies before anyone else can reach them, and the Paralyzing Arrows are useful to help parties.

[MacRighteous]

I think Strimtoms (misspelling? sorry) Acid Arrow is still performing quite well - I just solo'ed (with a hire) a first life AA Ranger through heroics (using openers) doing almost exclusively R1 (older content) or Elite (newer content) for the streak (ok - I jumped down to Hard for slavers and a few other quests)- I have ok-ish gear (crafted + non-raid named), 12 years of game knowledge and had to adjust my tactics for reaper (mostly kiting instead of zerging) - but still - I think anyone who had TR'ed (or leveled multiple alts) through the game 1 or 2 times would be able to do as well - many would prolly do much better because I'm pretty lame. Sure - it's not top-tier like some of those repeater or hybrid builds - but it gets the job done.

One thing I will say there is a lack of interesting and viable longbows - level 6 (8?) silver longbow to level 20 is kinda boring - but it does synergize with the build - anyways - by-the-way - you say you leveled to 20 back in 2006 - check your maths - cap was 12? back-n-da-day (or at least it was when I started playing a year after beta) - I might be misreading or you misspoke - but it kinda casts some shade on your cause.


https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/469213-quot-Strimtom-s-Acid-Arrow-quot-Maximum-Bow-DPS-F2P-new-player-Friendly?highlight=acid+arrow

[ranran]

Hey Ranran, I guess you mean ranged rangers?


Melee Rangers are pretty awesome. Longbow-using Rangers are certainly sub-par but they're a victim of themselves. If you want to make a Ranged character, your best bet is to make a Rogue Mechanic using a Great Crossbow.

Unfortunately, Rangers have access to Arcane Archer which has access to Slayer Arrow. Slayer Arrow is OP when used with Fury of the Wild, getting massive damage over a short period of time with Manyshot. However if you don't want to use Slayer Arrows, then your Ranger is going to be pretty lousy damage-wise compared to other ranged characters.

I'm currently using a pure Ranger with most points spent in Falconry. She's a wisdom-based Ranger who uses Death From Above to instakill enemies before anyone else can reach them, and the Paralyzing Arrows are useful to help parties.

Thanks for the replies! Yes, sorry for not specifying - I meant ranged rangers. Your responses confirm my anecdotal experiences that longbow-wielding, *non-melee* Rangers are...not......good, except for a couple of useful enhancements.

Ack. Now I need to re-think this. I was really hoping to avoid melee/dual-wielding Tempest, it just doesn't interest me (I've already got Fighters, Barbarians, etc... to get out my "melee" feelings). I was *really* hoping that after a few levels, and with Rapid SHOT, that the output would be better....but playing last night with a same level repeater-wielding Artificer....well, that was just a joke and I hung my head in shame.

Do you think Ranger's will get any updates soon from the Devs, or should I just respec for something else....

Falconry? I know nothing of that.....saw the tree last night...was wondering, huh? is this any good.....

[MacRighteous]

-snip - I was *really* hoping that after a few levels, and with Rapid Reload, that the output would be better.... -snip -

Are you saying you took Rapid Reload on a Longbow Ranger? Why would you do that? https://ddowiki.com/page/Rapid_reload

You should read Strims guide

[Lonnbeimnech]

Thanks for the replies! Yes, sorry for not specifying - I meant ranged rangers. Your responses confirm my anecdotal experiences that longbow-wielding, *non-melee* Rangers are...not......good, except for a couple of useful enhancements.

Ack. Now I need to re-think this. I was really hoping to avoid melee/dual-wielding Tempest, it just doesn't interest me (I've already got Fighters, Barbarians, etc... to get out my "melee" feelings). I was *really* hoping that after a few levels, and with Rapid Reload, that the output would be better....but playing last night with a same level repeater-wielding Artificer....well, that was just a joke and I hung my head in shame.

Do you think Ranger's will get any updates soon from the Devs, or should I just respec for something else....

Falconry? I know nothing of that.....saw the tree last night...was wondering, huh? is this any good.....

Been playing around with a wis based falconry ranger with paralyzing arrows, dps is horribad, but the paralyzing works good. Switched to terror arrow last night. That seems to work much better. Thinking that in epics when you can maintain close to 100% double shot and better attack speed it will work pretty good, but we will see.

[Kaboom2112]

Bows suck. Please make bows not suck.

Melee rangers are awesome.

[lyrecono]

(TITLE should be, The RANGED Ranger Class in 2019...)

Hello Everyone!

My very first created character (back in 2006 when the game came out!) was a Ranger/Rogue. I leveled him to 20, then stopped playing for years...

Over the last year or so, have come back and been playing with a group of friends and have had the opportunity to create multiple classes/races and see the state of the game with respect to this class.

Frankly, the Ranger seems severely underpowered when compared to other classes, especially when comparing to repeating crossbow users. I have TR'd that first character, deciding to continue with the Ranger/Rogue theme...but...after having played other ranged characters (repeaters!), I just can't believe the disparity.

Do you know if there are any plans to revamp the Ranger class this year to bring it more in line with other classes? I just finished Korthos.....but was sorely disappointed in his performance.

I feel that the Power Creep over the years has just left the poor Ranger out in the cold....

since the ranger player i run with does the same damage per arrow as the servers hardest hitting thf barbarian and avr crits nearly reach a 100k while having a far higher rate to hit then the barb and able to do it from a safe distance in a melee ED that works better for ranged toon, i would say, nerf rangers from orbit, nuke them into the stone age.

and OP?
Learn to build and play a ranger

[ranran]

I think Strimtoms (misspelling? sorry) Acid Arrow is still performing quite well
<snip> Thanks, I"ll look into that.


by-the-way - you say you leveled to 20 back in 2006 - check your maths - cap was 12? back-n-da-day (or at least it was when I started playing a year after beta) - I might be misreading or you misspoke - but it kinda casts some shade on your cause.
Oh goodness, I meant I *started* when it first came out...it took years to get to 20, and then I stopped playing before repeaters and Epic stuff came along....

[ranran]

Are you saying you took Rapid Reload on a Longbow Ranger? Why would you do that? https://ddowiki.com/page/Rapid_reload

You should read Strims guide

*sigh* I'm sorry I did not use the correct terminology, I meant Rapid SHOT.


since the ranger player i run with does the same damage per arrow as the servers hardest hitting thf barbarian and avr crits nearly reach a 100k while having a far higher rate to hit then the barb and able to do it from a safe distance in a melee ED that works better for ranged toon, i would say, nerf rangers from orbit, nuke them into the stone age.

and OP?
Learn to build and play a ranger

Ouch. OK, so your level 1-15 1st/2nd life pure Ranger is waaaayyy better with content than a Barbarian? Impressive, what build did you use to achieve these results and not get squished in these lower levels without access to top tier enhancements or previously farmed gear?

[MacRighteous]

<snip> Thanks, I"ll look into that.


Oh goodness, I meant I *started* when it first came out...it took years to get to 20, and then I stopped playing before repeaters and Epic stuff came along....


Fair enough - good luck man!
And jump back here if you have more questions - some of us are gruff - but we really are just trying to help ;P

[lyrecono]

Ouch. OK, so your level 1-15 1st/2nd life pure Ranger is waaaayyy better with content than a Barbarian? Impressive, what build did you use to achieve these results and not get squished in these lower levels without access to top tier enhancements or previously farmed gear?

*the ranger player i run with*

and that's where learning how to play comes in, a ranger can keep his distance if he picked content that is too hard for him.
next time, pick content you can handle, ddo has a learning curve.
my post merely illustrated that there is mechanically nothing wrong with the ranger class, you're merely using the tools proved incorrectly (if your goal is to stay alive and do dps)
that ranger has solod and paried his way from 1 to 30 many times, he had no issues

[Kaboom2112]

A bow firing slower than a great crossbow is idiotic and makes no sense.

[banjo174]

I just finished Korthos.....but was sorely disappointed in his performance.


Let me get this straight... You are comparing the best ranged weapon, to a weapon that takes a bit more work to make it good... In Korthos...

The function of repeaters is to do 3 quick hits 1,2,3. That is the function, combine that with the additions of extra enhancements on the weapon, such as say... 1d6x2. Because you can craft 2 of them on a level 1 weapon. You will just melt through Korthos. Thats just the way it is, some weapons are better earlier on, where as others will take over later...

Repeaters have the drawback of not fully utilizing doubleshot for example, where as every other ranged weapon does including longbows. The biggest thing about ranged rangers, is that they get the most doubleshot in the game, but they only get it at late game. Which is another reason that comparing 2 weapons AT KORTHOS LEVEL, is a big mistake.

[Yamani]

Repeaters have the drawback of not fully utilizing doubleshot for example, where as every other ranged weapon does including longbows. The biggest thing about ranged rangers, is that they get the most doubleshot in the game, but they only get it at late game. Which is another reason that comparing 2 weapons AT KORTHOS LEVEL, is a big mistake.

Very true that rangers get the most doubleshot. As is without any temp buffs like Killer running I have 99.94% doubleshot (yay for the .06% chance for 1 arrow). Then Killer 20%, Reaper Strike 30%, Manyshot 120%, Ultimately results in me getting 4 arrows a shot.

[ranran]

As always, I appreciate people taking their time to respond on the forum - especially if it is helpful and not too snarky...


Let me get this straight... You are comparing the best ranged weapon, to a weapon that takes a bit more work to make it good... In Korthos...

The function of repeaters is to do 3 quick hits 1,2,3. That is the function, combine that with the additions of extra enhancements on the weapon, such as say... 1d6x2. Because you can craft 2 of them on a level 1 weapon. You will just melt through Korthos. Thats just the way it is, some weapons are better earlier on, where as others will take over later...

Repeaters have the drawback of not fully utilizing doubleshot for example, where as every other ranged weapon does including longbows. The biggest thing about ranged rangers, is that they get the most doubleshot in the game, but they only get it at late game. Which is another reason that comparing 2 weapons AT KORTHOS LEVEL, is a big mistake.

So if I understand your argument correctly, you are stating that early in the game, repeaters will have an advantage, but at later levels, Ranger longbow + enhancements/doubleshot/Manyshot will equal things out. Let's see, checking the doubleshot wiki, Core enhancements don't kick in until Level 18. Manyshot feat doesn't kick in until Ranger level 6, elf tier 4 gives 3%, and items...and epic-level related help, so...apart from L6 Manyshot, much later in the game.


Very true that rangers get the most doubleshot. As is without any temp buffs like Killer running I have 99.94% doubleshot (yay for the .06% chance for 1 arrow). Then Killer 20%, Reaper Strike 30%, Manyshot 120%, Ultimately results in me getting 4 arrows a shot.

I take it you are in Epic levels for all this to come into play?

Ok, thanks all for the replies - I'll suffer through my Artificer friend's teasing until the tides...eventually....turn....

Also - as to my previous question, does anyone know if devs are making any substantial changes to the Ranger class this year?

[MacRighteous]

-snip-

Ok, thanks all for the replies - I'll suffer through my Artificer friend's teasing until the tides...eventually....turn....

Also - as to my previous question, does anyone know if devs are making any substantial changes to the Ranger class this year?

I thought they just had their pass less than a year ago.

Also - throw your build up here and maybe we can help you even the odds a bit.

[Yamani]

Also - as to my previous question, does anyone know if devs are making any substantial changes to the Ranger class this year?

substantial changes? Probably no. They released the wood elf race that helped ranged a little bit but as for the numerous things wrong with ranger/ranged I doubt they will make changes. Ranger can be very powerful if willing to work and invest into it.

Also ranger is the burst dps king. No other class really comes even close to what they can do.

[banjo174]

I thought they just had their pass less than a year ago.

Also - throw your build up here and maybe we can help you even the odds a bit.

THIS right here. Show us how you are building.

[ranran]

THIS right here. Show us how you are building.

Thank you all for your time in giving your opinions/experience and the links. I have been exploring builds in more detail - Strom's and others, and they have given me more insight with my build and going forward.

So, I think my starting build is fairly solid compared to what I'm finding, and now have a good sense of feat/enhancement choices that will complement an Archer build to keep him competitive.

Thanks again for your help!
R

[Lonnbeimnech]

Been playing around with a wis based falconry ranger with paralyzing arrows, dps is horribad, but the paralyzing works good. Switched to terror arrow last night. That seems to work much better. Thinking that in epics when you can maintain close to 100% double shot and better attack speed it will work pretty good, but we will see.

Paralyzing arrows working much better in epics. DPS with blitz going is not bad, being able to shut down everything in front of you is very nice.

[barecm]

Bow use as a combat style is what is the issue. From what I have gathered from Dev responses to my many, many requests for increased longbow help, I would not expect anything big. The attitude I have seen from dev responses is that longbows are fine. They are fearful of the paralyze / fury shot capabilities being too OP if they helped damage.

My suggestions have included fixing both Manyshot to be a stance (to level out damage from burst) and to eliminate fury shot so that they can further develop the longbow archer. Falling on deaf ears though as I have been asking for help for longbow users for years.

Their unwillingness to accept that longbows are currently way below throwers, great crossbows, repeaters, and now regular xbows with the new Inquisitor build hitting soon.

I visualize a particular dev shaking his head and saying "no, no, no, no, no" while cover his ears when someone mentions the facts of longbows being VASTLY inferior.

[Zarkarion]

It is worth noting that however sucky an Arcane Archer build may or may not be currently, Ranged Rangers are alive and well and using crossbows successfully as Inquisitives.

Although it is a bit sad that these crossbow builds eclipse the classic arcane archer, Ranger still offers various advantages for a crossbow build, not least the free feats and plentiful skill points (in an Intelligence build).

Sniper Shot is awesome with 6 times Critical Multiplier and Critical Threat Range 12-20 (Ratcatcher + Inquisitive True Seeing + Improved Critical: Ranged), especially if you can line up several enemies to hit with Improved Precise Shot.

[goldgolem]

since the ranger player i run with does the same damage per arrow as the servers hardest hitting thf barbarian and avr crits nearly reach a 100k while having a far higher rate to hit then the barb and able to do it from a safe distance in a melee ED that works better for ranged toon, i would say, nerf rangers from orbit, nuke them into the stone age.

and OP?
Learn to build and play a ranger

I love this level of trolling! theres an OPOP ranger but somehow no build to back it up? gg

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

Frankly, the Ranger seems severely underpowered when compared to other classes, especially when comparing to repeating crossbow users.

The ranged ranger definitively needs current gear.
With old gear it is no wonder why he underperforms so much.

That totally apart from any "balance" discussion.

[blarhblarhblarh]

Right now they nerfed even more the bow ranger because of inquisitor.

They could solve it by adding 3% doubleshot and 3% ranged alacrity per level using bows. Simple as that. Or could make the bab equals to pnp 3.5 were a bow ranger have the same dps of a sorcer but for single target. The inquisitor double a two handed weapon as it is a trikeen or Goro from mortal combat with 4 arms and it´s ok by them so why can´t they make bow rangers viable???

DDO is not about graphics. It´s about gameplay and party. Should be as close to pnp as possible and there´s no escuse to have a bow ranger like this after 14 years of the game. Even at cap it wouldn´t ressurect people or use scrolls. Would have some CC skills, some survivability and a nice DPS.

My take on the build: ranger 14 fighter 6. AA tier 3, DWS tier 5, Kensei and elf for bow dmg. With fury it gets really weird because sometimes I hit stuff for 30 damage and other times I go to 9k at level 23. So how am I gonna know wich group can I join? wich lvl of the quest I must play? this makes everyone lost but specially a returning player.

With an warlock lvl 10 I can do more damage than a bow ranger lvl 18, use scrolls, have AOE with chain and I don´t even have to aim. I could play with a joystick and still would be more usefull to a group than most bow rangers, even the ones that really know how to play and use this class for years. Makes no sense is the way DND was planned that each class have a role and everyone must work together to complete a quest. Today a 2 person group can do any content and it really confuses me because lvls that used to be very hard now are easy so the game didn´t catch up with the builds. Older builds like paladin or a bow ranger are not been played by people that loves them because they became useless.

More than new content we need old content updated. More than new crafting grinds or another past life system we need more inventory and bank space, or a private área in the ship to store our gears sets. And it all should be free. I came back a month ago and already can´t stand to do the same quests over and over again only to get a heart to reincarnate. The game should be easier in game settings, easier to gather loot and the grind should exist only to get gear, not to play more the the game.

[Ausdoerrt]

I think Strimtoms (misspelling? sorry) Acid Arrow is still performing quite well - I just solo'ed (with a hire) a first life AA Ranger through heroics (using openers) doing almost exclusively R1 (older content) or Elite (newer content) for the streak (ok - I jumped down to Hard for slavers and a few other quests)- I have ok-ish gear (crafted + non-raid named), 12 years of game knowledge and had to adjust my tactics for reaper (mostly kiting instead of zerging) - but still - I think anyone who had TR'ed (or leveled multiple alts) through the game 1 or 2 times would be able to do as well - many would prolly do much better because I'm pretty lame. Sure - it's not top-tier like some of those repeater or hybrid builds - but it gets the job done.

One thing I will say there is a lack of interesting and viable longbows - level 6 (8?) silver longbow to level 20 is kinda boring - but it does synergize with the build - anyways - by-the-way - you say you leveled to 20 back in 2006 - check your maths - cap was 12? back-n-da-day (or at least it was when I started playing a year after beta) - I might be misreading or you misspoke - but it kinda casts some shade on your cause.


https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/469213-quot-Strimtom-s-Acid-Arrow-quot-Maximum-Bow-DPS-F2P-new-player-Friendly?highlight=acid+arrow

The build is certainly viable, but it's far from great. It's a good build, don't get me wrong, but it primarily takes advantage from the fact that some low-level abilities are too powerful for most low- and mid-level content. It loses a lot of its sheen once you go past level 20.

It's also a very specific way to build a character for content that's not really that difficult to begin with. Yea, you'll be able to one-shot mobs in heroic elites. But, say, a spellsinger bard could AoE whole groups of mobs with maximized shouts costing 9 SP. Sorcs, warlocks etc. do even better. And all of these are much more lenient to both the build and the gear.

The build is nice, but it just emphasizes the problem with bows / ranged rangers in DDO.