Tempest - One way to solo low reaper and keep solid DPS for high reaper PUGs

[Thrudh]

Edit: This thread was started to show a tempest build that works for a semi-casual player. Good enough to solo R2-R3, and contribute in groups in R4-R8.

So my main has always been a Dex-based TWF evasion character. Almost always with at least 6 levels of ranger.

Since reaper came out, I've been messing around with various build ideas that will allow me to solo at least reaper 3, but also be able to contribute to high reaper PUGs.

Max ranger DPS (aka Tempest 20 running LD) is best if you have a good guild or a static group with lots of CC and/or healing and/or tanks. But a max DPS Tempest is somewhat of a glass cannon when soloing. It's easy to get overwhelmed by a group of mobs on reaper, and your self-heals aren't enough to keep up with the incoming damage.

So I kept experimenting with different trade-offs to give myself more defense and survivability, but not nerf the DPS output too much.

Multi-classing means you lose the Tempest capstone, and maybe even the level 18 core

First thing I tried for fun was adding some warlock levels. I played a 14/6 ranger/warlock for good amount of time. The warlock aura ticking off 150 temp hp or so every 4 seconds was hugely useful in low reaper. I also really liked Dark Delirium... a no-save single-target Daze Monster that lasted for 30+ seconds. It was a great way to shut down a dangerous champ or a reaper.

But the MAIN advantage from the warlock levels was access to quickened Sleet Storm. This spell slows down enemies 50%, and gives you sneak attacks on them (I run with Scion of the Ethereal Plane, which is all about sneak attack damage). I found this hugely useful when soloing large packs of mobs (14 ranger can self-cast FoM so Sleet Storm doesn't affect you).

But warlock levels aren't nearly as useful in high reaper PUGs. The 150 temp hp every 4 seconds just isn't enough to matter, and in groups it's harder to get people to use Sleet Storm. It COULD work with a tight group - you just have to make sure to cast FoM on everybody, and choose choke points together, but most PUGs are fast moving, and less likely to use enough teamwork for Sleet Storm to be useful.

So although warlock levels did help with soloing low reaper, it wasn't very useful in high reaper PUGs.

And then the Epic Defensive Fighting feat came out, which doesn't work with warlock Aura, so that made the warlock levels even less useful.

One of my alts is a barbarian, and I really like Blood Tribute in reaper. It's very very good in low-to-mid levels heroics (150 temp hp), and pretty good at epic cap as well. 400 temp hp that you can spam every 3 seconds at cap does really help in a big fight, even in the higher level reapers.

I thought maybe I could incorporate 2 levels of barbarian into my ranger character.

For fun, I tried a 14/4/2 ranger/warlock/barb character. The warlock levels were ONLY for Sleet Storm, no aura, not a single AP spent in warlock enhancements. I got blood tribute from barbarian, which was (mostly) better than the warlock aura, plus I could use Epic Defensive fighting for more base hp.

That build was successful as well. Just as good or even better soloing low reaper, and still decent in high reaper... but again, I wasn't using Sleet Storm in high reaper groups (so the warlock levels were wasted).

So, for a while, I took Sleet Storm off my hotbar, and tried soloing without it. If I could solo without it, I could move up to a 18/2 ranger/barb build, and get a bit more DPS from that level 18 tempest core. In LD, soloing was fairly solid, but there would still be times I would overwhelmed.

So then I added another twist. I switched to ShadowDancer ED, instead of LD... That seemed to do the trick when soloing... 25% incorporeal from Shadow Form adds a lot of defense (30% with the level 18 tempest core). Meld into Darkness is huge, 100% dodge for 15 seconds has saved my life many times. It's hard to calculate the DPS loss at cap using SD instead of LD... You get a lot of sneak attack bonuses in SD. Standing melee power is easier to deal with than Blitz. There are times when I mess up (or the group is too slow), and I lose Blitz. I have 42 more standing MP in SD than LD. When Blitz is fully active, I have 28 more MP in LD. But with the extra sneak attack in SD, I think DPS from Blitz melee power is a wash.

The real difference in LD is Combat Brute (and 20 second cooldowns on Haste Boost). 50% more damage on helpless enemies is huge. But note that only applies to trash and not to bosses. Boss DPS is just as high or higher with ShadowDancer.

So far, I've been pretty happy with SD. I can solo low reaper with very little chance of dying, contribute well in high reaper, and I'm durable enough to survive in high reaper even when on my own for a bit. I certainly can't solo high reaper, but I can take down a pack of mobs on my own if needed, and with CC or a tank, of course, I do a ton of damage.

[Thrudh]

Edit: This thread was started to show a tempest build that works for a semi-casual player. Good enough to solo R2-R3, and contribute in groups in R4-R8.

Any race will work (although halfling and Elf would be best for Dex bonuses). No racial AP is required. The more reaper AP the better, but 17 or so reaper AP puts you a good spot. Everything after that is bonus. Gear is pretty easily obtained. All quest and Cannith-crafted. Raid weapons, of course, are highly recommended. As a dagger build, my guy uses Pain and Suffering.


18/2 Ranger/Barbarian

This is a dagger build (note you can use a dagger in your main hand, and a rapier or shortsword in your off-hand).

I was playing around with Vistani when it first came out with morninglord daggers, and like it a lot, and I was lucky enough to get Pain and Suffering raid daggers, so I'm still currently a dagger build. I don't have Flow yet from the Strahd raid. When I get that, I may stop using daggers (which would free up Vistani AP). Or maybe I'll keep using Pain, and put Flow in my off-hand. :)

This build could definitely be used with rapiers or other light weapons. It would give you 13 extra AP that you wouldn't have to use in Vistani.


Free feats from Ranger:

Bow Strength
Rapid Shot
Die Hard
TWF, ITWF, GTWF
Precise Shot
Improved Precise Shot
Manyshot
Evasion


Free feats from Vistani

Quick Draw



Heroic Leveling:

1. Ranger - Weapon Finesse
2. Barbarian
3. Barbarian - Precision
4. Ranger
5. Ranger
6. Ranger - Maximize
7. Ranger
8. Ranger
9. Ranger - IC: Piercing
10. Ranger
11. Ranger
12. Ranger - Empower Healing
13. Ranger
14. Ranger
15. Ranger - Quicken
16. Ranger
17. Ranger
18. Ranger - IC: Ranged
19. Ranger
20. Ranger



Epic Leveling:

21 - Overwhelming Critical
24 - Rogue Past Life - +30 to hide 3 times/1 minute
26 - Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 - Epic Reflexes
28 - Doubleshot 10% or Tactician
29 - Dire Charge
30 - Blinding Speed and Scion of Ethereal Plane (Perm Blur, +4 to all skills, +1 sneak attack damage for every 3 points of hide)



All stat level ups into Dexterity.

Hide skill is around 160 at cap with Camouflage spell, high dex, Hide cloak from Silent Avenger set, maxed hide ranks, Shadow Form from Shadowdancer, etc. It's 190 when you activate the Rogue past-life. That's a TON of extra sneak attack damage. Exposing Strike (enhancement from Deepwood Sniper) lets you bluff a single target for 4 seconds every 6 seconds. This works on orange-names and bosses, so this is a lot of extra DPS. And a helpless mob (from Dire Charge or Balanced Attacks) also takes sneak attack damage.

Enhancements

Enhancements

2 points into Falconry to get Favored Enemy: Animal
36 points into Tempest (Dance of Death)
21 points into Deepwood Sniper (for Improved Weapon Finesse and Exposing Strike, and +1 crit range)
8 points into Frenzied Berzerker (for Blood Tribute and Cracking Attack - 20% reduction on fort for 20 seconds)
13 points into Vistani (for free Quick Draw, 20% doublestrike from Rapid Slash, 5% doublestrike (main and off-hand) and +1(w) with daggers)



Shadow Dancer Epic Destiny.

Twists

Sense Weakness (Tier 4)
Balanced Attacks (Tier 3)
Cocoon (Tier 1)
Extra Action Boost (Tier 1)
Legendary Tactics (Tier 1)



Doublestrike calculations:

9% 3 martial sphere Epic Past Lives
17% Cannith-crafted gloves
10% Lore-fueled Packbannner (Insight bonus)
5% Knife Specialist (Vistani enhancement)
5% Whirlwind (Tempest 18th level core enhancement)
5% Perfect Two-weapon fighting (Epic Destiny Feat)
15% Silent Avenger Set


=66% passive (but my character sheet says 69.87% - not sure where I'm getting the extra 3.87%)

20% Rapid Slash (Vistani enhancement, active attack, 10 sec duration, 10 sec cooldown)

=86% (89.67%?) sustained Doublestrike (since duration matches cooldown, better than Killer from DWS)


Melee Power calculations:

Shadowdancer cores - 60 MP
Ring of Prowess - 8 MP
Epic Power(10) - 30 MP
Misc. Equip Mythic - 2 MP
Sentient - 8 MP


=108 passive (but my character sheet says 111 - again, not sure where the last 3 is coming from)

+50 for Prowess MP boost when using an Action Boost




End-game Gear


Silent Avenger Set:
Armor: Legendary Mist-Fallen Vestaments: 202 Fortification - 9 Parrying - PRR 50 - Profane +2 - Green slot (+2 Max Dex from Armor)
Belt: Legendary Braided Cutcord: DEX +19 - Qual DEX +4 - Qual Dodge 4 - Blurry Green slot(+2 Luck)
Cloak: Legendary Shadowhail Cloak: Hide +22, Move Silently +22, Deception +16, Ghostly - Green slot (Globe +1 EXC to all stats)

Goggles: Epic Precision Lenses:Manslayer - Insightful STR +9 - Melee Alacrity 15% - 3 extra Action Boosts - Blue slot
Wrist: Legendary Lore-Fueled Packbanner: Ins CON +9 - PRR 50 - Insightful Doublestrike +10 - Green slot (+8 STR)
Ring: Legendary Ring of Prowess: +8 Melee and Ranged Power - +14 Deadly - +28 Accuracy - Green slot (250 SP)
Ring: Slaver crafted: CON +17 - 185 Devotion - Stunning +20 - Quality CON +4
Gloves: Cannith crafted: Doublestrike +17 - Healing Amp 61 - Insightful Dex +7 - Green slot (+40 hps false life)
Necklace: Legendary Ward-Inscribed Pendant: Deadly +16 - CON +19, Natural Armor +19 Yellow slot (Deathblock)
Trinket: Cannith crafted: 9% Doubleshot - +12 Resistance - Insightful Stunning +8
Boots: Cannith crafted: Dodge 15 - Sheltering +38 (for the MRR) - Ins Dodge +7 Green slot(+8 CHA)
Head:Legendary Executioner's Helm: +17 Seeker - Relentless Fury (5% more DPS) - +4 Quality Combat Mastery - Insightful Deception (more sneak attack damage) - Green slot (+8 WIS)

Most of this gear is fairly easy to get (if you have enough crafting xp to craft all high-end Cannith stuff). Goggle slot somewhat open. I really just use it for the 3 extra Action Boosts, once those are gone, one can switch. If you don't go Vistani and daggers, you'd probably want to spend some AP in Harper, and get an INT goggle item.

Dire Charge, even without Harper Know the Angles, is still fairly solid (in the 110 range with an 84 Dex), but Know the Angles would help DPS and increase your stun DC even further with a good INT goggles item.

Necklace slot is also somewhat open since I have +17 CON on my old slavers ring, and deadly on my ring of prowess, so I'm not getting much out of the necklace except Natural Armor +19.

[Thrudh]

Racial Past Lives:

3 Halfling
3 Elf


Epic Past Lives:

7 Primal
4 Divine
4 Martial
3 Arcane


Heroic Past Lives:

3 Fighter
2 Ranger
1 Rogue
2 Paladin


Reaper AP:

33 currently - 34 is a sweet spot where one can get 4 extra Dex, 3 extra tactics, 4 extra CON, and 120 hp from the cores. Almost there.


Ability Stats:

Dex - 83

20 starting Dex
7 level ups
8 tome
19 item
7 Insight item
4 Quality item
1 exceptional
1 racial enhancement
3 ranger enhancements
2 Shadowdancer ED
1 reaper core
4 Filigree (requires 7 slots and 250 threads of fate so you can get prowess set, two +1 Dex Filigree, and a +2 Dex Filigree)
2 Guild ship
2 racial past-lives
2 profane from armor


In reaper, add 3 more.

So 86 Dex in reaper. Subtract 3 if a non Dex-based race (lose 2 starting points and 1 racial enhancement)

Can use Yugo pots and ability potions for 4 more. So 90 sustainable.


CON - 61

15 starting CON
8 tome
19 item
9 Insight item
4 Quality item
1 exceptional
1 reaper core
2 Guild ship
2 Profane from armor


In reaper, add 3 more.


Other Stats:

Dire Charge Stun DC - 110 or so, depending on Dex
PRR - 133 (slightly higher in reaper)
MRR - 68 (slightly higher in reaper)
Doublestrike - standing 90% (using daggers with Rapid Slash - 70% without Rapid Slash, but then Killer from DWS is an option, plus 30% Reaper DS boost)
Melee Power - 111
Reflex - 92 (over 100 in reaper)
AC - 127
Dodge - 27%
Incorporeal - 30%
Heal Amp - 101%
Positive Spell Power - 395/474 (if I swap trinket to a Insighful Devotion one - but then I lose 8 off Dire Charge)
Hit points - 1962
Hide around 160/190 boosted (depending on Dex)




Alternate end-game gear.

I was able to get the armor and cloak from Baba's raid that go with Silent Avenger set. It's really not that much of an upgrade, but I fit them in anyway.

Lost Hide from the cloak, so crafted a LGS necklace.
Lost Fort and Parrying from the armor, so I switched helmets to get Fort back, and crafted Parrying on my boots.

Solipsism on the helm is a pretty sweet (chance to cause daze on a monster when I hit them), and the Vitality from the helm and the extra hp from the LGS necklace is always nice.

Switching helms, I lost seeker, so I crafted some seeker googles with True Seeing as well, and I switch to them after using the first 3 action boosts I get from the Epic Precision Lenses.


End-game Gear

Silent Avenger Set:
Armor: Vestaments of Ravenloft: Deathblock - Ghostly - PRR 52 - Profane +2 - Green slot (+8 Protection) - Blue slot (+2 Max Dex from Armor)
Belt: Legendary Braided Cutcord: DEX +19 - Qual DEX +4 - Qual Dodge 4 - Blurry Green slot (+2 Luck)
Cloak: The Invisible Cloak of Strahd: Deception +17 - MRR 52 - Nightmare Guard - Invisibility Guard - Green slot (+8 Natural Armor) - Blue slot (Globe +1 EXC to all stats)

Wrist: Legendary Lore-Fueled Packbanner: Ins CON +9 - PRR 50 - Insightful Doublestrike +10 - Green slot (+8 STR)
Ring: Legendary Ring of Prowess: +8 Melee and Ranged Power - +14 Deadly - +28 Accuracy - Green slot (250 SP)
Ring: Slaver crafted: CON +17 - 185 Devotion - Stunning +20 - Quality CON +4
Gloves: Cannith crafted: Doublestrike +17 - Healing Amp 61 - Insightful Dex +7 - Green slot (+40 hps false life)
Necklace: Legendary Green-steel necklace: Dex skills (Hide) +22 - Dex skills insightful +11 - 56 extra hitpoints.
Trinket: Cannith crafted: 57 hp false life - +12 Resistance - Insightful Stunning +8
Boots: Cannith crafted: Dodge 15 - Parrying 7 - Ins Dodge +7 - Yellow slot slot (Feather Fall)
Head: Legendary Unbreakable Stormreach Guardian's Helm: 67 Vitality - CON +19 - Fort save +16 - Fort 202% - Trace of Madness (Solipsism) - Green slot (+8 WIS)

Goggles: Epic Precision Lenses:Manslayer - Insightful STR +9 - Melee Alacrity 15% - 3 extra Action Boosts - Blue slot
Goggles: Cannith crafted: Seeker +17 - True Seeing - Ins Seeker +7 - Blue slot


Notes from suggestions later in the thread -

Might be possible to have Adherent of the Mists AND the Silent Avenger set

If I got Molten Silver Gauntlets, that would give me 6 more doublestrike and Armor Piercing (which I don't have above)

Gloves: Molten Silver Gauntlets: Doublestrike +23 - Armor Piercing +32 - Deadly +16 - Feat: Pierce Silver - Green slot (+40 hps false life) - Blue slot

But I'd lose Heal Amp and Insightful Dex from my current gloves, but could craft them on a trinket instead.

Trinket: Cannith crafted: Hide 22 - Healing Amp 61 - Insightful Dex +7

But then I'd lose Resistance +12 and Insightful Stunning +8

But could possibly use Van Richten's Googles (+20 Dex, +16 Reflex, 52 MRR, Doubleshot 12%) maybe a necklace like Fleetfoot (+20 Wisdom, +20 Natural Armor, Superior Reinforced Fists) and boots like Flightfoot (FOM, Nat Armor +19, Reflex +16)? Probably not worth it unless I was a wisdom based monk.

A swashbuckling bard could get both Silent Avenger and Adherent using Van Richten's cane in his off-hand, and use the CHA boots and CHA necklace. Much better synergy there.


End-game gear after Sharn:
End-game Gear

Part of the Family Set:
Armor: Legendary Wildcard: Fort 214% - PRR 54 - Heal Amp 85 - False Life 81 - Green slot
Necklace: Legendary Family Recruit Sigil: True Seeing - Armor Piercing 33 - Deadly 17 - Relentless Fury - Yellow slot
Gloves: Legendary Hammerfist: Insightful Doublestrike 11 - Seeker 21 - Insightful Deadly 8 - Cannith Combat Infusion - Green slot (+8 Natural Armor) - Blue slot (Globe +1 EXC to all stats)

(Set gives +15 Doublestrike - 25 Artifact Melee Power - 15% Artifact damage vs Helpless - 10% Fort bypass)

Head: Legendary Umber Brim: Insightful Accuracy 16 - Insightful Deception 8 - Profane well-rounded - Improved Quelling Strikes - Green slot
Goggles: Legendary Collective Sight: Dex 21 - Insight Dex 10 - Quality Resistance 4 - Blue slot

Cloak: Legendary Cloak of the City's Champion: Parrying 10 - Insightful CON 10 - Quality PRR 13 - Green slot
Belt: Legendary Bronze Dragonscale Belt: CON 21 - Heal Amp 85 - Insightful False Life 40 - Lifesealed 50 - Blue slot

Wrist: Brand of Kalok Shash: STR 22 - Quality Accuracy 8 - Quality Deadly 5 - Fire Absorb 53% - Green slot - Blue slot - Yellow slot

Ring: Legendary Celestial Ruby Ring: INT 21 - Stunning 23 - Accuracy 33 - Ghostly - Green slot
Ring: Slaver crafted: Sheltering 45 (for the MRR) - 185 Devotion - Hide 22 - Quality DEX +4

Trinket: Cannith crafted: Doublestrike 17 - Resistance 12 - Insightful Stunning +8
Boots: Cannith crafted: Dodge 15 - ??? - Ins Seeker 7 - Yellow slot (Feather Fall)


Ravenloft set comparison to Sharn set:
Ghostly - Ghostly
PRR 52 - PRR 54
MRR 52 - MRR 45 (from Sheltering)
Fort 202 - Fort 214

Dex 19 - Dex 21
Ins Dex 7 - Insight Dex 10
Qual Dex 4 - Qual Dex 4

CON 19 - CON 21
Insight CON 9 - Insight CON 10
Qual CON 4 - missing

Profane 2 - Profane 2

Heal Amp 61 - Heal Amp 85

Doublestrike 17 - Doublestrike 17
Insight Doublestrike 10 - Insight Doublestrike 11

Deadly 14 - Deadly 17
missing - Insight Deadly 8
missing - Quality Deadly 5

Accuracy 28 - Accuracy 33
missing - Insight Accuracy 16
missing - Quality Accuracy 8

Seeker 17 - Seeker 21
Insight Seeker 7 - Insight Seeker 7
True Seeing - True Seeing

Deception 17 - Deception 17 (on weapon)
missing - Insight Deception 8

Hide 33 - Hide 22

Devotion 185 - Devotion 185

Resistance 12 - Resistance 12
Parrying 7 - Parrying 10

Dodge 15 - Dodge 15
Insight Dodge 7 - missing
Quality Dodge 4 - missing

False Life 57 - False Life 81
missing - Insight False Life 40
Vitality 67 - missing
LGS hp 56 - missing

Blurry - missing

Stunning Blow 20 - Stunning Blow 23
Insight Stun 8 - Insight Stun 8

missing - Armor Piercing 33
missing - Relentless Fury
missing - Cannith Combat Infusion
missing - Improved Quelling Strike
missing - Fire Absorption 53%

[LargoKeyWest]

Necklace slot is also somewhat open since I have +17 CON on my old slavers ring, and deadly on my ring of prowess, so I'm not getting much out of the necklace except Natural Armor +19.


Fleetfoot necklace

[Taxidiotis]

I get sad when peeps on mobo suggest tempests should be anything but pure when trying to achieve max dps and be sustainable for mid-high reaper. So I take it upon myself to try to stop this dissemination from reaching those that truly want to experience a true sexy dexy tempest dps build. (FYI, dex may be in flux atm due to knights training; we'll see & who knows what Sharn will bring)

1. Aasimar is the master race. The T4 stance is way too good. (Scourge is a trap, don't do that thing. I would just assume play Bladeforged over Scourge, neither are ideal)
2. Pure ranger is the only way to go. Capstone is way too good to give up. No other argument should ever be entertained and should be forever banished to Hoboken, NJ.
3. LD has everything you need to accomplish excellent, sustainable dps and some defenses to boot. Swaying from LD severely limits your ability to accomplish goals.
4. Stay out of the Vistani tree. Great for rogue assassins, but you're a tempest. Sexy dexy needs scimmies, rapiers and light hammers. It just so happens that some of the highest performing weps are scimmies and rapiers. (Again, that may be in flux atm)
5. The Falconry tree? Stay out of the Falconry tree...nuff said.
6. R.I.N.O. = Ranger In Name Only; do not put points/feats/gear into ranged dps...tempests are called tempests. Leave the ranging to throwers and sorcs. (I don't think I even own a bow...)

Enhancements:
Tempest: Minimum 42 pts
DWS: Maximum 26 pts
Harper: Minimum 8 pts
Aasimar: everything else up to T4 stance

Feats:
Drop the following; Maximize, Emp Heal, IC:Ranged, E. Reflexes, Doubleshot/Tactition, Blinding speed
Pick up the following; IC: Slash, dodge, mobility, Adamantine(if not using Celestia), Completionist, Wep Foc or Toughness

Metamagics should be sub'd with good Heal Amp. Dex tempest does not need more Reflex(maybe Will?). Blinding Speed is a waste and can be covered by gear. Say "NO" to ranged feats, "Bad ranged feats, stay out of the kitty litter!"

EDs:
Sense Weakness(Quests) OR Symetric Strikes(Raids) (4)
Balanced Attack (3)
Meld (3)
Cacoon (1)

Gear:
Change out the following: Gogs - Van Richten, Slaver Ring - Nightfall, Gloves - Molten Silver; Necklace - Slavers(CON/CON/RES/STUN), CC Trinket - Dodge/I-DEX/H-AMP, Boots - Flightfoot Greaves

This gear out allows you to pick up Adherent Mist set.

Playstyle:
Solo
I solo (no-hires) R5s with confidence and sometimes a hint of challenge in a zerg-type fashion with some strategery. If you are a "glass cannon", then you may not be maximizing the tempest rotations, wep sets, def clickies, or have a good control of mob. Try this; gather - boost - charge - DOD - M. Strike - 1000 Cuts/Reaper Strike and everything simply melts away on R5 (R1 is the new casual, R7 is the new elite, R10 is the true reaper setting). Have several situational wep swaps available: Affirmation, ReVigeration, light hammers; but mob wep set should be Nightshard/Flow. Boss beaters should be Nighshard/Nightshard or Vulks edge. Also; make use of Displacement, Meld, Dodge Helm, LoH

Party
I will readily drag a full cadre of pugs thru R6; and BC guildies run 8-10 with very little hic-ups. In Hi-Reaper, party makeup is key; CC and hjeals goes a long way. 2 tempests, CC caster and hjeals = no problems. Fill in the other 2 slots with whatever; except warlocks...dirty warlocks...
A valuable Tempest should be clocking in at 10k DPS. A noticeable Tempest will clock in at 15k DPS. A true Sexy Dexy THOT will clock in at >20k DPS.

Gearing/Enhancements/Auxiliary Perma-Buffs(filis/mythic/reaper) are not easy to come by on the Sexy Dexy Thot build, but it sure does turn heads.

[Thrudh]

1. Aasimar is the master race. The T4 stance is way too good. (Scourge is a trap, don't do that thing. I would just assume play Bladeforged over Scourge, neither are ideal)
2. Pure ranger is the only way to go. Capstone is way too good to give up. No other argument should ever be entertained and should be forever banished to Hoboken, NJ.
3. LD has everything you need to accomplish excellent, sustainable dps and some defenses to boot. Swaying from LD severely limits your ability to accomplish goals.
4. Stay out of the Vistani tree. Great for rogue assassins, but you're a tempest. Sexy dexy needs scimmies, rapiers and light hammers. It just so happens that some of the highest performing weps are scimmies and rapiers. (Again, that may be in flux atm)

Obviously I disagree with some of your points.

(1) I don't have that many racial TRs, so using Aasimar T4 stance means I'd have to take away AP (a lot of AP) from somewhere else. Your suggestions require 12 racial AP. I only have 4 (and that's with a +2 racial AP tome!). Also Fallen doesn't stack with Fetters, and the weapons I use already do stack Vulnerability.
(2) Giving up the capstone is pretty big. I agree with you there. But it doesn't gimp a tempest.
(3) I also agree that LD is the best ED for DPS, especially if you have CC in the group. However, when soloing, Shadowdancer can be better. But LD still could work when soloing. I agree with you. I've done both. Currently, I prefer SD. The nice thing, it's super easy to switch between EDs.
(4) See below on weapons. I'm currently using daggers, so a small dip into Vistani works very well. The 20% doublestrike from Rapid Slash is far superior to Killer in DWS.


mob wep set should be Nightshard/Flow. Boss beaters should be Nighshard/Nightshard or Vulks edge.

I don't have those raid weapons yet.

I do have Pain and Suffering. Right now, the dagger set does more damage than other weapons I own. When I get Flow, I will re-evaluate. That should be soon. Nightshard may take longer. Not of lot of KT PUGs.


A valuable Tempest should be clocking in at 10k DPS. A noticeable Tempest will clock in at 15k DPS. A true Sexy Dexy THOT will clock in at >20k DPS.

I'm definitely valuable and on the edge of noticeable.

Tempests are very good at DPS. They can get overwhelmed by large groups of mobs, however, when soloing. With small changes to the build, I've got a good character now who can solo low-to-mid reaper when no groups are available, and can also contribute strongly in high reaper PUGs (talking R7-R8, there are no R10 PUGs except for Amber Temple)

[Thrudh]

Change out the following: Gogs - Van Richten, Slaver Ring - Nightfall, Gloves - Molten Silver; Necklace - Slavers(CON/CON/RES/STUN), CC Trinket - Dodge/I-DEX/H-AMP, Boots - Flightfoot Greaves

This gear out allows you to pick up Adherent Mist set.

This is good advice on gear... Thanks... It does take two more raid gear items though.

[Emerge2012]

*gives nearly impeccable advice*

Except the falconry wisdom part. Tactics/extraDMG/frog/extra helpless dmg over everything in DWS past Exposing Strike.

Also Dust offhand for boss beater without question.

[Taxidiotis]

Except the falconry wisdom part. Tactics/extraDMG/frog/extra helpless dmg over everything in DWS past Exposing Strike.

Also Dust offhand for boss beater without question.

So I fully understand what you're pitching...
Dropping KtA from Harper...(8pts)
Spending 11pts (E.Strike) in DWS...(dropping 15pts)
And take 23pts in Falconry (to get to Deadly Instinct)?
Or spend 26pts in Falconry to get No Mercy and D. Instincts? Where did you drop other 3 points?

Net Gain from Falconry (as I would spread 23 pts): (Primary phrasing there being "Net Gain")
FE Animals - not too appealing
P. Accuracy - Solid usefulness
Sprint Boost - Can come in handy
Perma True Seeing - (sub'd by a scroll)

Possible Alternative pt spread in Falconry: that I did not choose
Killer Instinct I/II - Not a WIS build
Watch the Center - no Ass DCs
Diving Shot - Requires Ass DCs
M. Weapon - lmao
Tear Flesh - DOTs are virtually worthless in reaper content
S. for Eyes - Requires Ass DCs
No Mercy - removes KtA and DI stance for 30% Helpless Dmg. Not sure there is a net positive there relative to sustained stance Dmg vs situational helpless Dmg. Best generation of helpless is D. Charge DC...and that is now gone...unless you spend 26 pts in falconry...which means more is leaked from DWS or Tempest. 42 being the ABSOLUTE minimum in Tempest tree, I would assume 3pts were taken from DWS...removing ...E. Strike and SA? Absolute blasphemy!

Mmm...I really do not like giving up following from DWS/Harper: i.e. Net Loss
A. Sneak Att - +1 Crit Threat range and SA die
Killer - 20% DbStr (it is effectively charged throughout all encounters)
KtA - (Same as D. Instinct, but with charges) With a swap-in cloak, I can effectively get INT higher than WIS (and it has no charges). OK OK you can slot in that Flightfoot WIS Neckie, but now you have to play gear tetris and ultimately you lose out on Ring of Prowess or a change out Cannith crafted items, etc. Don't do that thing! Or swap-in Flightfoot neckie for 20 WIS...but swap-in INT cloak offers 23 INT. I see KtA as a net gain over DI.

After evaluating, I sincerely have no doubt in my mind that what would be picked up in Falconry would never substitute the losses in DWS; namely 20% DbSt, crit range and SA die. I understand the argument of requiring to charge Killer by most players...but be very assured...you should have zero issues charging and maintaining fully charged Killer in R10, even with the meanest clerics, casters and various other high DPS running around the board.

That is not to say that Falconry would not work for other beginning tempest players...it simply would not work for any Tier 1 tempest player...they have reputations to uphold:). And the idea is to lift beginning players to Tier 1 greatness; not allowing them to squander and flounder about the dregs of DDO; giving them a sense of false self-importance, while being completely ignored, ridiculed and a punch line by the Tier 1 players.

I 100% agree with using Dust/Ooze in offhand...or, ideally, dedicating a primary de-buffer in party to let the Tier 1s extend their DPS. This sounds like a perfect job for a warlock! They can finally contribute...positively, that is! However, I am sure Dust/Ooze will get nerfed before too long...c'est la vie warlocks:(. Back to the dregs with you!

OP, I get it...it's tough to amass that amount of static buffs (RAPs/Mythic/RXP/PLs/filis), but dedication is rewarded. The foundation of the build must be there in order for the statics to get full potential. Glad I could help with your gear-out. If you're on Gland, hit me up (Stratiotis) and together we will raid farm that gear for you.

[Thrudh]

Killer - 20% DbStr (it is effectively charged throughout all encounters)

This is incorrect for many players and in many groups. Fighting a boss or red-name with no minions around, it will decay.


I understand the argument of requiring to charge Killer by most players...but be very assured...you should have zero issues charging and maintaining fully charged Killer in R10, even with the meanest clerics, casters and various other high DPS running around the board.

Okay, here's the disconnect. The 18/2 ranger/barb build I posted here is not for people with 100 past-lives, with all raid gear, with 13 racial APs, and with a static group of high-end players who all run R10 together. I even stated this in the OP. I agreed that a pure 20 tempest ranger in LD is best for that kind of player.

But I am a casual player who only PUGs or solos. I don't have a lot of raid gear, not even LGS gear, and I don't have a lot of past-lives. Using just easily-farmed quest gear from Slavers, Ravenloft, and some Cannith-crafting to fill in gaps, I have created a solid Tempest ranger who can solo low reaper when no groups are available, AND also contribute well in mid-high reaper PUGs.

A 20 Tempest in LD could solo, yes. It's easier with an 18/2 ranger/barb in SD. That's what I've discovered. That's what I posted. One can easily switch between LD and SD based on the group or quest, in any case.

[Coffey]

This is incorrect for many players and in many groups. Fighting a boss or red-name with no minions around, it will decay.



Okay, here's the disconnect. The 18/2 ranger/barb build I posted here is not for people with 100 past-lives, with all raid gear, with 13 racial APs, and with a static group of high-end players who all run R10 together. I even stated this in the OP. I agreed that a pure 20 tempest ranger in LD is best for that kind of player.

But I am a casual player who only PUGs or solos. I don't have a lot of raid gear, not even LGS gear, and I don't have a lot of past-lives. Using just easily-farmed quest gear from Slavers, Ravenloft, and some Cannith-crafting to fill in gaps, I have created a solid Tempest ranger who can solo low reaper when no groups are available, AND also contribute well in mid-high reaper PUGs.

A 20 Tempest in LD could solo, yes. It's easier with an 18/2 ranger/barb in SD. That's what I've discovered. That's what I posted. One can easily switch between LD and SD based on the group or quest, in any case.

I solo a lot too and sometimes i need to adjust my build and tactics to be more effective. Its another reason why i enjoy this game so much because there are a lot of options available to work through.

[Taxidiotis]

But I am a casual player who only PUGs or solos. I don't have a lot of raid gear, not even LGS gear, and I don't have a lot of past-lives. Using just easily-farmed quest gear from Slavers, Ravenloft, and some Cannith-crafting to fill in gaps

My offer still stands!:) Hit me up some time.

[Thrudh]

My offer still stands!:) Hit me up some time.

I appreciate the offer, but I'm on another server...

Your gear suggestions were good, so I've been playing around with some different options to fit in Adherent set bonus along with Silent Avenger.

I can do it without the Van Richten Goggles, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to need the Molten Silver gloves to make it work.

Luckily Baba is the one raid that's fairly easy to find on LFMs these days.

Or I just wait until Sharn comes out, and completely redo my inventory anyway :)

[Emerge2012]

So I fully understand what you're pitching...
Dropping KtA from Harper...(8pts)
Spending 11pts (E.Strike) in DWS...(dropping 15pts)
And take 23pts in Falconry (to get to Deadly Instinct)?
Or spend 26pts in Falconry to get No Mercy and D. Instincts? Where did you drop other 3 points?

Net Gain from Falconry (as I would spread 23 pts): (Primary phrasing there being "Net Gain")
FE Animals - not too appealing
P. Accuracy - Solid usefulness
Sprint Boost - Can come in handy
Perma True Seeing - (sub'd by a scroll)

Possible Alternative pt spread in Falconry: that I did not choose
Killer Instinct I/II - Not a WIS build
Watch the Center - no Ass DCs
Diving Shot - Requires Ass DCs
M. Weapon - lmao
Tear Flesh - DOTs are virtually worthless in reaper content
S. for Eyes - Requires Ass DCs
No Mercy - removes KtA and DI stance for 30% Helpless Dmg. Not sure there is a net positive there relative to sustained stance Dmg vs situational helpless Dmg. Best generation of helpless is D. Charge DC...and that is now gone...unless you spend 26 pts in falconry...which means more is leaked from DWS or Tempest. 42 being the ABSOLUTE minimum in Tempest tree, I would assume 3pts were taken from DWS...removing ...E. Strike and SA? Absolute blasphemy!

Mmm...I really do not like giving up following from DWS/Harper: i.e. Net Loss
A. Sneak Att - +1 Crit Threat range and SA die
Killer - 20% DbStr (it is effectively charged throughout all encounters)
KtA - (Same as D. Instinct, but with charges) With a swap-in cloak, I can effectively get INT higher than WIS (and it has no charges). OK OK you can slot in that Flightfoot WIS Neckie, but now you have to play gear tetris and ultimately you lose out on Ring of Prowess or a change out Cannith crafted items, etc. Don't do that thing! Or swap-in Flightfoot neckie for 20 WIS...but swap-in INT cloak offers 23 INT. I see KtA as a net gain over DI.

After evaluating, I sincerely have no doubt in my mind that what would be picked up in Falconry would never substitute the losses in DWS; namely 20% DbSt, crit range and SA die. I understand the argument of requiring to charge Killer by most players...but be very assured...you should have zero issues charging and maintaining fully charged Killer in R10, even with the meanest clerics, casters and various other high DPS running around the board.

That is not to say that Falconry would not work for other beginning tempest players...it simply would not work for any Tier 1 tempest player...they have reputations to uphold:). And the idea is to lift beginning players to Tier 1 greatness; not allowing them to squander and flounder about the dregs of DDO; giving them a sense of false self-importance, while being completely ignored, ridiculed and a punch line by the Tier 1 players.

I 100% agree with using Dust/Ooze in offhand...or, ideally, dedicating a primary de-buffer in party to let the Tier 1s extend their DPS. This sounds like a perfect job for a warlock! They can finally contribute...positively, that is! However, I am sure Dust/Ooze will get nerfed before too long...c'est la vie warlocks:(. Back to the dregs with you!

OP, I get it...it's tough to amass that amount of static buffs (RAPs/Mythic/RXP/PLs/filis), but dedication is rewarded. The foundation of the build must be there in order for the statics to get full potential. Glad I could help with your gear-out. If you're on Gland, hit me up (Stratiotis) and together we will raid farm that gear for you.

I won't touch on everything point for point because that seems like so much right now. But, wisdom based period, not secondary. You pick up 2 wisdom from Aasimar cores, 2 more from higher base stat, and at least 1 more from the bird tree - this keeps the 'main stat' loss minimal. Wisdom works with everything and will be considerably higher than your int on a non-int build. Calamity main hand and LGS Dust scimi offhand with occasional offhand swaps for dr breaking and whatnot. If you have the racial ap it's something like 42 tempest/27 bird tree/11 deepwood, and the rest in Aasimar for the cores and as much amp as you can get. Losing the +1 threat range hurts a little but I honestly feel like not being forced to use light weapons and the much higher insightful from KI mitigates that. The extra 30% helpless from falconry fully offsets on it's own though. Keep in mind that Calamity stacks vulnerable almost instantly, as in within about 3 seconds with haste boost running. I recently ran this exact setup and first numbers fully buffed in EE were about 1200 average after the stacks built up - no monks with jade strike, no FvS using rebuke foe, and no bards in fatesinger….just purely self buffed.

It does give up a little but I think most of it is defensively. Dodge clicky isn't nearly as good for example, but overall the addition of frog and the mucho mucho deeps was very well worth the switch. When I say I consistently pulled aggro from geared intimi-tanks and the 8/6/6 dogs I'm not even remotely bs'ing. Threat reduction filigree was absolutely mandatory.

[FuryFlash]

So then I added another twist. I switched to ShadowDancer ED, instead of LD... That seemed to do the trick when soloing... 25% incorporeal from Shadow Form adds a lot of defense (30% with the level 18 tempest core). Meld into Darkness is huge, 100% dodge for 15 seconds has saved my life many times. It's hard to calculate the DPS loss at cap using SD instead of LD... You get a lot of sneak attack bonuses in SD. Standing melee power is easier to deal with than Blitz. There are times when I mess up (or the group is too slow), and I lose Blitz. I have 42 more standing MP in SD than LD. When Blitz is fully active, I have 28 more MP in LD. But with the extra sneak attack in SD, I think DPS from Blitz melee power is a wash.

The real difference in LD is Combat Brute (and 20 second cooldowns on Haste Boost). 50% more damage on helpless enemies is huge. But note that only applies to trash and not to bosses. Boss DPS is just as high or higher with ShadowDancer.

So far, I've been pretty happy with SD. I can solo low reaper with very little chance of dying, contribute well in high reaper, and I'm durable enough to survive in high reaper even when on my own for a bit. I certainly can't solo high reaper, but I can take down a pack of mobs on my own if needed, and with CC or a tank, of course, I do a ton of damage.

While I don't have any interest in multi-classing my tempest, I can vouch for the power of Shadowdancer on this build. Sure, the overall DPS is less, but it also brings to the table:
- 15% more incorporeality
- Higher dodge/MDB and Meld
- Higher passive MP/SA damage without having to deal with blitz
- More dex for extra damage/defense/DCs
- Instakills/Charm abilities
- Utility (DD, stealth speed, shadow walk speed)

Personally, I run Shadowdancer on my tempest for any questing, and switch to LD for raids, where the DPS is all that matters. I ran high reaper at endgame pretty much every day over the summer and found this to be a successful and strong setup for this content.

[Taxidiotis]

Calamity main hand and LGS Dust scimi offhand with occasional offhand swaps for dr breaking and whatnot. If you have the racial ap it's something like 42 tempest/27 bird tree/11 deepwood, and the rest in Aasimar for the cores and as much amp as you can get. Losing the +1 threat range hurts a little but I honestly feel like not being forced to use light weapons and the much higher insightful from KI mitigates that. The extra 30% helpless from falconry fully offsets on it's own though. Keep in mind that Calamity stacks vulnerable almost instantly, as in within about 3 seconds with haste boost running. I recently ran this exact setup and first numbers fully buffed in EE were about 1200 average after the stacks built up - no monks with jade strike, no FvS using rebuke foe, and no bards in fatesinger….just purely self buffed.

It does give up a little but I think most of it is defensively. Dodge clicky isn't nearly as good for example, but overall the addition of frog and the mucho mucho deeps was very well worth the switch. When I say I consistently pulled aggro from geared intimi-tanks and the 8/6/6 dogs I'm not even remotely bs'ing. Threat reduction filigree was absolutely mandatory.

Flow as offhand...nuff said on Vuln. Sorry to say, knights training has probably effectively made Calamity null/void. Ideally, you have the tank with Dust. Or an offhand dps. this allow T1 DPS to maximize DPS with full potential beaters.

Frog?:)

How does WIS based manage the Reaper point spread between Adversary and Thaumaturge? I guess you just don't climb up the Thaumaturge tree to get your WIS? And DEX/STR in Adversary gets wasted? Or do you abandon Barricade? Seems... in-efficient to be required to climb all 3 trees to max out appropriate modifiers for a dps. And please do not tell me you need 100 Reaper points to run this...:(

42/27/11 does not leave enough points to get to Aasimir's T4 stance, which is a vital 10MP. Which means dumping some more DWS points and SA:(.

Slotting threat reduction fili lose out on 10MP. Yes, pulling aggro is 100% guaranteed in all instances; you learn to manage it and even allows you to control the battlefield from those mook ranged kiters and/or warlocks pugs. Never compromise DPS for safety or the convenience of the tank. Tanks are essentially pikers! Give them something to do:). PRR/MRR, Meld, displacement, corporeal, blurry, ghostly, spell absorb, affirmation, dodge helm are all your friends; use them accordingly. Of course...a decent healer for those long drawn out boss fights.

On the topic of filis, Prowess set is a good source of static STR/DEX. WIS would not readily compliment sentient weps, without giving up MP.

I won't even ask about the WIS gear-out, but I'm pretty positive there will be some vital sacrifices; CON? Deadly? Dodge? Hamp? Dare I say...prowess ring? Surely not a full gear set bonus?

I'm hearing you say you're giving up at least; 20MP, Threat range, SA, DoubleStrike, 10% Fort bypass to have a pet bird. AND either leaving some MP on the table from Adversary, or 5 WIS from Thaumaturge or giving up a lot of HP/PRR/CON from Barricade....for a bird?
Standing MP is 144MP. In reaper; 165MP, before blitz/boost/etc. No way I could give up 20MP, I would be completely neutered...or in the thot's case, spayed:(

I find this very difficult to believe this is a manageable/efficient T1 DPS build. Are you pulling my leg? :)
Do you have any DPS numbers from Bruntsmash test? I'd be interested to hear some numbers...but not enough to actually run one.

[Taxidiotis]

This is incorrect for many players and in many groups. Fighting a boss or red-name with no minions around, it will decay.

Insert 1000 cuts and rotate reaper strike for efficient 100% dblstrike all year round!

[Emerge2012]

Flow as offhand...nuff said on Vuln. Sorry to say, knights training has probably effectively made Calamity null/void. Ideally, you have the tank with Dust. Or an offhand dps. this allow T1 DPS to maximize DPS with full potential beaters.

Frog?:)

How does WIS based manage the Reaper point spread between Adversary and Thaumaturge? I guess you just don't climb up the Thaumaturge tree to get your WIS? And DEX/STR in Adversary gets wasted? Or do you abandon Barricade? Seems... in-efficient to be required to climb all 3 trees to max out appropriate modifiers for a dps. And please do not tell me you need 100 Reaper points to run this...:(

42/27/11 does not leave enough points to get to Aasimir's T4 stance, which is a vital 10MP. Which means dumping some more DWS points and SA:(.

Slotting threat reduction fili lose out on 10MP. Yes, pulling aggro is 100% guaranteed in all instances; you learn to manage it and even allows you to control the battlefield from those mook ranged kiters and/or warlocks pugs. Never compromise DPS for safety or the convenience of the tank. Tanks are essentially pikers! Give them something to do:). PRR/MRR, Meld, displacement, corporeal, blurry, ghostly, spell absorb, affirmation, dodge helm are all your friends; use them accordingly.

I'm hearing you say you're giving up at least 20MP, Threat range, SA, DoubleStrike to have a pet bird. AND either leaving some MP on the table from Adversary, or 5 WIS from Thaumaturge or giving up a lot of HP/PRR/CON from Barricade....for a bird? My standing MP is 144MP. In reaper; 165MP, before blitz/boost/etc. No way I could give up 20MP, I would be completely neutered...or in my case, spayed:(

I find this very difficult to believe this is a manageable/efficient T1 DPS build. Are you pulling my leg? :)
Do you have any DPS numbers from Bruntsmash? I'd be interested to hear some numbers...but not enough to actually run one.

I never rely on others to stack vulnerable or a Dust weapon, far too many times where nobody else has it. Definitely wouldn't rely on a tank to swing one as they really shouldn't be swinging anything but their shield and losing a sentient weapon just hurts them even more. I sincerely wish more players would use the Fetters/Vacuum/Dust weapons but they just don't in general and waiting for Aasimar to stack vulnerable is a big DPS loss. If you can stack vulnerable and -prr (at tempest speeds....TEMPEST SPEEDS) you're not only boosting yourself to max in 2-3 seconds but the rest of the party as well. It's less important when considering mid reaper raid bosses with 10mil+hp but for everything else you're better off just taking control and being the man.

Flow is great, love the **** out of it, but Dust has it wrecked and KT costs a feat (no gain there) for lesser weapons so Calamity is still great. Flow costs another feat too. Easier and better to swap in a Solipsism helm for the daze and swap a Nightshard if needing high reaper CC. Nobody ever wants to swap out their Executioner's helm for obvious reasons but the wisdom build has no-fail Dire Charge without it. Can make a case for Soulrazor for questing but I find that that on any tempest build I weapon swap enough that only the instakill proc is really static.

Toon I ran it on has 50 reaper points and I only put 11 into caster tree for 1 static wisdom and some frog buffers, the rest in melee/def.

Frog is amazing. Aasimar's tier 4 stance is really nice but with correct weapons the vulnerable does nothing and 10 melee power isn't making or breaking anything. If you don't need threat reduction then you aren't doing enough damage :P If you need to back off to manage your aggro then you might as well play a lesser DPS build that has better party utility and can continue attacking. And again, not only are the bird attacks very valuable but having a KTA ability based off your main stat is really big.

2 piece Treachery set is 10 melee power and the -50% threat.

My standing melee power was 110-120ish I think, but that was based on having SoS and Ethereal. And sneak attacks didn't seem to be boosted by the -prr from Dust offhand unfortunately. Losing tiny sneak dice from deepwood is a non-issue, because it's tiny. Doubletrike from deepwood is only useful in quests but between thousand cuts and 7 or so reaper boosts that shouldn't ever be a problem and definitely wasted AP at level cap. It sounds like you have the past lives and gear so you know doublestrike is capped with the boosts and clickies without Killer.

It's absolutely efficient if you can play it, and I'm sure you can. All you have to do is work in a few hotkeys for bird attacks and another weapons swap for Frog. There was a time where I'd never consider a wisdom anything and Calamity was a running joke. But after making the switch and taking control of debuff management I'll never look back as that always-on and always-applied self sufficiency is too much to ever give up. You and your friends will also love getting touched by Healing Hands with meaningful wisdom behind it.

[Taxidiotis]

I never rely on others to stack vulnerable or a Dust weapon, far too many times where nobody else has it. Definitely wouldn't rely on a tank to swing one as they really shouldn't be swinging anything but their shield and losing a sentient weapon just hurts them even more. I sincerely wish more players would use the Fetters/Vacuum/Dust weapons but they just don't in general and waiting for Aasimar to stack vulnerable is a big DPS loss. If you can stack vulnerable and -prr (at tempest speeds....TEMPEST SPEEDS) you're not only boosting yourself to max in 2-3 seconds but the rest of the party as well. It's less important when considering mid reaper raid bosses with 10mil+hp but for everything else you're better off just taking control and being the man.

Agreed on reliance issues, and no a tank prob wont bother using de-buff (we have a guild tank that actually uses threat/debuffs to tank; and turtles when required). But yes, for pugs, you're on your own. My real hesitance to getting Dust...I believe it will be nerfed and I'll be sitting around with useless LGS Dust gems.


Aasimar's tier 4 stance is really nice but with correct weapons the vulnerable does nothing and 10 melee power isn't making or breaking anything.

My use for T4 Stance: Whack boss with Flow a couple times, swap to beaters. T4 Stance keeps applied vuln from decaying...the 10MP and fear is added bonus.


If you don't need threat reduction then you aren't doing enough damage :P If you need to back off to manage your aggro then you might as well play a lesser DPS build that has better party utility and can continue attacking.

100% agree. Oh I need reduction, but refuse to compromise on MP. And guildies have a running joke of "hiding behind the thot", while they flank/SA. Of course those are hi-reaper guild runs. For pugs, I simply drop to R5/6 and take care of myself.


2 piece Treachery set is 10 melee power and the -50% threat.

Consider prowess set (10MP), SP/OAM: STR-rare(4MP), OAM-MPrare (10MP) and SP-MPrare (10MP) = static 34MP vs. treachery's 25MP? That MP here and there adds up.



My standing melee power was 110-120ish I think, but that was based on having SoS and Ethereal. And sneak attacks didn't seem to be boosted by the -prr from Dust offhand unfortunately. Losing tiny sneak dice from deepwood is a non-issue, because it's tiny. Doubletrike from deepwood is only useful in quests but between thousand cuts and 7 or so reaper boosts that shouldn't ever be a problem and definitely wasted AP at level cap. It sounds like you have the past lives and gear so you know doublestrike is capped with the boosts and clickies without Killer.

I am also running SoS and Ethereal with standing 144MP. No SA is not scaling with Dust, which is suggesting that Arborea may be viable again since front numbers from FTRs/Barb are considerably higher than Tempests. I may switch to Arborea just to test Dust out. But if nerfed, going back to Ethereal. DEX(Hide) and Ethereal just match each other so well. Yes, mob intensive content make good Killer procs, not so much on raids. DblStr clickies offset Killer in raids.

[Emerge2012]

Agreed on reliance issues, and no a tank prob wont bother using de-buff (we have a guild tank that actually uses threat/debuffs to tank; and turtles when required). But yes, for pugs, you're on your own. My real hesitance to getting Dust...I believe it will be nerfed and I'll be sitting around with useless LGS Dust gems.



My use for T4 Stance: Whack boss with Flow a couple times, swap to beaters. T4 Stance keeps applied vuln from decaying...the 10MP and fear is added bonus.



100% agree. Oh I need reduction, but refuse to compromise on MP. And guildies have a running joke of "hiding behind the thot", while they flank/SA. Of course those are hi-reaper guild runs. For pugs, I simply drop to R5/6 and take care of myself.



Consider prowess set (10MP), SP/OAM: STR-rare(4MP), OAM-MPrare (10MP) and SP-MPrare (10MP) = static 34MP vs. treachery's 25MP? That MP here and there adds up.




I am also running SoS and Ethereal with standing 144MP. No SA is not scaling with Dust, which is suggesting that Arborea may be viable again since front numbers from FTRs/Barb are considerably higher than Tempests. I may switch to Arborea just to test Dust out. But if nerfed, going back to Ethereal. DEX(Hide) and Ethereal just match each other so well. Yes, mob intensive content make good Killer procs, not so much on raids. DblStr clickies offset Killer in raids.

I was running 5 piece prowess, 2 piece treachery, and a single mp rare. This was personal preference as I'd forget to continue using the coffee for -threat and backing off targets to lose aggro just isn't in my nature.

If your melee power is that much higher it's purely because of mythic/reaper gear bonuses or you're running Ring of Prowess (which I dumped for Band of Insightful Commands) - in which case you might be better off staying with what you have. My final Hide skill even wisdom based was 160 so I felt the difference between dex/wisdom in that regard was gonna be super small. But really, all said and done the DPS is gonna be just as good with a ton of gains and few losses.

[Taxidiotis]

I was running 5 piece prowess, 2 piece treachery, and a single mp rare. This was personal preference as I'd forget to continue using the coffee for -threat and backing off targets to lose aggro just isn't in my nature.

If your melee power is that much higher it's purely because of mythic/reaper gear bonuses or you're running Ring of Prowess (which I dumped for Band of Insightful Commands) - in which case you might be better off staying with what you have. My final Hide skill even wisdom based was 160 so I felt the difference between dex/wisdom in that regard was gonna be super small. But really, all said and done the DPS is gonna be just as good with a ton of gains and few losses.

Non-Reaper Sexy Dexy Standing 144MP - (RO Prowess(8) + Fallen T4 bond(10) + Sentient fili setup(34-25=14))

That's a difference of base 32MP you are leaving out, that does not include any mythic/reaper gearing. You can "fix" your sentient MP loss right now, but I think you're stuck with the 18MP loss (unless you sacrifice some other gear attributes; idk)

MP is not everything to a build, but 32MP is a lot! I couldn't do what I do with 112MP.

BoICommand does offer higher To Hit and +4 QDeadly, but at the loss of 8MP(RoP) and gear tetris shuffle. A while ago I tried the BoIC with a Fleetfoot neckie and Slaver ring CON/CON...it got close to 17kDPS. With RoP gear out, it hit 18.6k. That was a few months back at standing 120MP. I need to Bruntsmash test again, but I am fairly positive it tips over 20k.

Helpless dmg is great, LoH is good, Will saves are good, KI is better than KtA, but due to limited gear-out, Reaper Tree spread, MP loss, SA loss, Crit Range loss, Hide loss; I'm fairly certain DEX (or STR) tempest would pull ahead considerably.

Now I'm waiting for that one guy (probably plays a warlock) to reply in thread something about, "It's all about having fun, man...". Completely neutralizing our decent and rational discourse.

[Thrudh]

Heh, I originally posted this thread to show a tempest build that would work well for a semi-casual player.

I'm not mad at all that you guys took it over to discuss "Tier 1" tempest builds. It's a really good discussion with some excellent points.

But note that I wrote out this build for people who don't have 12 racial APs, and 50-70 reaper APs, raid gear, easy access to LGS gear, 8 piece sentient sets, etc.

The gear I listed is all easy to get from standard quests. The build can easily switch between Shadowdancer and Legendary Dreadnaught Epic Destinies.

Any race will work, so this can be used for getting racial or iconic TRs (although halfling and Elf make the most sense, since this is a Dex-build)

I do have a 5-piece prowess set, but have been working on other sets for my alts before adding more slots to my main.

I only have 4 racial AP (and two of those are from a racial tome), I have 26 reaper AP, and limited raid gear. Legendary Shroud is not run very much any more in LFMs, so I won't be building any new Shroud weapons any time soon.

With these limitations, this build is pretty solid. Able to solo R2-R3, and easily join groups running R5-R8 and contribute strongly.

I soon should get Flow, and then I'll have to decide if I want to keep messing around with daggers and Vistani. I could still use Flow as off-hand, and stick with Vistani, but we'll see.

I do enjoy your discussion.

[Taxidiotis]

Heh, I originally posted this thread to show a tempest build that would work well for a semi-casual player.

I'm not mad at all that you guys took it over to discuss "Tier 1" tempest builds. It's a really good discussion with some excellent points.

But note that I wrote out this build for people who don't have 12 racial APs, and 50-70 reaper APs, raid gear, easy access to LGS gear, 8 piece sentient sets, etc.

The gear I listed is all easy to get from standard quests. The build can easily switch between Shadowdancer and Legendary Dreadnaught Epic Destinies.

Any race will work, so this can be used for getting racial or iconic TRs (although halfling and Elf make the most sense, since this is a Dex-build)

I do have a 5-piece prowess set, but have been working on other sets for my alts before adding more slots to my main.

I only have 4 racial AP (and two of those are from a racial tome), I have 26 reaper AP, and limited raid gear. Legendary Shroud is not run very much any more in LFMs, so I won't be building any new Shroud weapons any time soon.

With these limitations, this build is pretty solid. Able to solo R2-R3, and easily join groups running R5-R8 and contribute strongly.

I soon should get Flow, and then I'll have to decide if I want to keep messing around with daggers and Vistani. I could still use Flow as off-hand, and stick with Vistani, but we'll see.

I do enjoy your discussion.

I don't think we meant to maliciously hi-jack your intentions. I just have a long standing personal believe that if you can be great, then do that thing!
Anyone can p*** on the floor, be a hero and s*** on the ceiling!

[Question2005]

Why are you taking weapon finess? Doesnt tempest already give you dex to hit/damage?

[Kaboom2112]

Why are you taking weapon finess? Doesnt tempest already give you dex to hit/damage?

You need it for rapiers. Flow is that good.

[Question2005]

You need it for rapiers. Flow is that good.

To apply vulnerability you mean? Couldnt you do that with the Pain dagger too?

[Thrudh]

Why are you taking weapon finess? Doesnt tempest already give you dex to hit/damage?

Ah, you are correct that if you're going just with daggers and Tempest you don't need Weapon Finesse.

But I take it to keep rapiers as an option. I have the room for the feat, and getting Improved Weapon Finesse in Deepwood Sniper is no sacrifice since it's on the way to Exposing Strike anyway.

Flow is only good (compared to Pain) because of Guardbreaking. Defense against trash.

FYI - you can use Flow in your off-hand if you wanted to, and still use Vistani abilities with a dagger in your main hand.

[Taxidiotis]

To apply vulnerability you mean? Couldnt you do that with the Pain dagger too?

Imp. Wep Fin (DWS) allows Dex to Dmg.
Tempest (Core 2) allows Dex to Hit with light weps(and scimmies).

But Rapiers are not considered light weps, unless you take Wep Fin feat.

Flow's guardbreaking is it's true power. Vuln is just gravy.
Flow as off-hand is vastly superior to Pain dagger for mob trash, though it does require Wep Fin and IC: Pierce.
Yes, it is that good...

[Assassination]

Taxidi,

I run a dexy tempest as well. Could you give me a break down on your melee power? I'm at a measly 79 on the ship, my sent weapon is only give me 18 which I know is a problem.... But am wondering where the other possible 64 pts are. I do not use ring of prowess, and am not aasimar. I have the 5 pc set, and armor set. Also my Ap spread is 6 human tree, 42temp/31dws/8haper. Thanks, enjoyed this thread.

[Taxidiotis]

Taxidi,

I run a dexy tempest as well. Could you give me a break down on your melee power? I'm at a measly 79 on the ship, my sent weapon is only give me 18 which I know is a problem.... But am wondering where the other possible 64 pts are. I do not use ring of prowess, and am not aasimar. I have the 5 pc set, and armor set. Also my Ap spread is 6 human tree, 42temp/31dws/8haper. Thanks, enjoyed this thread.

Ring of Prowess = 8MP
MainHand Sentient(All Rare) = 34MP; Prowess Set(10MP)+SP/OAM(4MP)+S. Punch(5MP+Set 5MP)+OAM(5MP+Set 5MP)
Mist Set = 10MP
Tempest tree(43) = 10MP
Harper tree(10) = 1MP
Aasimir tree(16) = 10MP
DWS tree(26) = 0MP
Epic Power(10) = 30MP
Dreadnaught = 18MP
Melee Tome(4) = 4MP
Wep Focus Feat = 2MP
Dread Adversary(41) = Base 3MP (+21MP in Reaper Mode)
Misc. Equip Mythic/Reaper Bonus = 15MP

Standing Base (minus Misc. Equip. bonuses) = 130MP
Standing Base (w/ Misc. Equip. bonus) = 145MP on the ship
Reaper Base (not blitzing) = 166MP

With Human, Sentient setup and no RoP; you will lose Standing Base -34MP, putting you at 96MP.
On the ship you *should* be close to 96MP, not including any random myth/Rpr equip. bonuses. Of course I do not know, but I would guess you may be missing;
Tomes(-4MP), Wep Focus(-2MP), Reaper(-3MP), Harper tree(-1MP) and misc. equipment bonuses(+/-???); putting you in the area of Standing Base +/-86MP...So you must be missing -7MP from misc equipment for your observed Base 79MP. Sound about correct?

Hope that helps.

[Assassination]

Thank you!

[oaf]

Hi,

Could you please post your Stat points for this build. I would love to know if a first lifer-32 point build is really able to do this build and solo EE and R1

Thank you