Best epic great crossbow?

[harmlesslarry]

Hi is Divine Artillery still the best Great Crossbow or has it been replaced? Thanks

[Swimms]

Hi is Divine Artillery still the best Great Crossbow or has it been replaced? Thanks

Volley is the best epic great crossbow, although significantly harder to acquire than DA.

https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Volley,_Arbalest_of_the_Damned

[krimsonrane]

Hi is Divine Artillery still the best Great Crossbow or has it been replaced? Thanks

No. Morninglord GXbow hands down. Been playing xbow for a few years and tried them all. ML has the dr breakers and the damage. If you are depending on vorpals to take out the monsters then your build needs a little work.

[krimsonrane]

Volley is the best epic great crossbow, although significantly harder to acquire than DA.

https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Volley,_Arbalest_of_the_Damned

It has no dr breakers leaving you to switch out often. Plus the morninglord has a higher base damage.

[Yamani]

It has no dr breakers leaving you to switch out often. Plus the morninglord has a higher base damage.

There is other ways to get DR's.... Ruby of good, Ruby of Vampire Slayer, Molten Silver Gauntlets, Deconstructor (adamantine)...

[askrj1]

It has no dr breakers leaving you to switch out often. Plus the morninglord has a higher base damage.

Volley is double slotted, Echo of Ravenkind adds good, Molten Silver Gauntlets adds silver and as a ranged weapon you can always swap ammo, though troublesome. At this point no other GXB carries the same base damage and offers salt and vacuum in one package, though Morninglord/Nightmother might borderline do more damage on mobs where the bane works and if someone else was already stacking vulnerability.

Morninglord/NM have smaller damage dice than Volley, so they definitely do not have higher base damage. They have damage procs that bring the damage up, but Volley stacks vulnerability so if you're soloing or if no one else in party is stacking vulnerability Volley still rates much higher.

[Swimms]

Volley is double slotted, Echo of Ravenkind adds good, Molten Silver Gauntlets adds silver and as a ranged weapon you can always swap ammo, though troublesome. At this point no other GXB carries the same base damage and offers salt and vacuum in one package, though Morninglord/Nightmother might borderline do more damage on mobs where the bane works and if someone else was already stacking vulnerability.

Morninglord/NM have smaller damage dice than Volley, so they definitely do not have higher base damage. They have damage procs that bring the damage up, but Volley stacks vulnerability so if you're soloing or if no one else in party is stacking vulnerability Volley still rates much higher.

Volley also has blunted ammo so you can run with Pulverizer in LD without needing the quiver.

[krimsonrane]

There is other ways to get DR's.... Ruby of good, Ruby of Vampire Slayer, Molten Silver Gauntlets, Deconstructor (adamantine)...

That may be, but you'll be wasting slots when morning lords listed damage is the best there is so far. I can't find a base image but my unequipped MLGXbow with 5 filigrees is 105.80. Volley on wikki is 86.25. If you're built to use a GXbow, then you are the vorpal effect.

Epic purifying quiver take care of blunted.

[HuneyMunster]

That may be, but you'll be wasting slots when morning lords listed damage is the best there is so far. I can't find a base image but my unequipped MLGXbow with 5 filigrees is 105.80. Volley on wikki is 86.25. If you're built to use a GXbow, then you are the vorpal effect.

Epic purifying quiver take care of blunted.

Is Epic Dynamistic Quiver not the only source of enhancement bonus to range power? Though Quivers can always be swapped as and when needed.

Volley also has Identity Crisis that adds slow effect in addition to Vulnerability.

Epic Divine Artillery has Deception effect that induces Bluff effect that has doubled chance to proc if Improved Deception is on another item. Seeing as a lot Mechanic Rogues uses Great Crossbow the extra Sneak Attack damage is a large dps boost.

[askrj1]

That may be, but you'll be wasting slots when morning lords listed damage is the best there is so far. I can't find a base image but my unequipped MLGXbow with 5 filigrees is 105.80. Volley on wikki is 86.25. If you're built to use a GXbow, then you are the vorpal effect.

Epic purifying quiver take care of blunted.

BDR tends to include effects it really shouldn't. Volley is 5[2d8+3], ML/NM is 5[2d8+2]. There's no way the base damage on ML/NM is higher than Volley.


Is Epic Dynamistic Quiver not the only source of enhancement bonus to range power? Though Quivers can always be swapped as and when needed.

Volley also has Identity Crisis that adds slow effect in addition to Vulnerability.

Epic Divine Artillery has Deception effect that induces Bluff effect that has doubled chance to proc if Improved Deception is on another item. Seeing as a lot Mechanic Rogues uses Great Crossbow the extra Sneak Attack damage is a large dps boost.

Dynamistic isn't the only slot, but it's the "easy" one. I'm using L. Ring of Prowess.

The deception effect is nice but you shouldn't have much trouble keeping sneak up without it. ML/NM/Volley just do way more on dice (and some to hit) for the offset to be worthwhile anyway.

[krimsonrane]

There's no way the base damage on ML/NM is higher than Volley.


Look it up. I did. Long before this conversation I had the same question and a pocket full of baba runes I never used.

[edgarallanpoe]

Look it up. I did. Long before this conversation I had the same question and a pocket full of baba runes I never used.

Volley = 5[2d8+3] + 15
ML/NM= 5[2d8+2] + 15

I don't have my character open to check if these are correct but this is according to the Wiki...it isn't by much but base damage on the Volley is higher.

[barecm]

Don't forget rune arms. The two from RL have Tira's Splendor which adds a bypass to silver DR. My great xbow user has both weapons and Volley is what I go with. My NM and ML ones are in the bank. You can break DR from a variety of items both good and silver. Plus Volley is blunted and all the other goodness it has. With Echo of ravenkind for Good DR, I am able to slot a deconstructor and endless night. Then you get the slow, vulnerable stacks, and PK chance.... Not really even close imho. And, if you got yours post update, it is level 28, not level 29.

[askrj1]

Look it up. I did. Long before this conversation I had the same question and a pocket full of baba runes I never used.

Please read the first part of my statement before sounding off as if I didn't read.

Just so you know a vanilla ML/NM GXB has a BDR on the barter of 80.5 vs 86.25 for Volley. Your EQUIPPED ML GXB has a BDR of 105.8 includes some mods on your character. My EQUIPPED Volley has a BDR of 168.8.

Let me very specifically lay out the numbers for you. If you have no party members stacking vulnerability Volley does 5[2d8+3]+15 plus mods x 1.2 on max stacks, ML/NM will do 5[2d8+2]+15 + mods + whichever procs(9d6 good/fire/evil/coid) and banes (9d10 undead/human) that apply. If you have party members that stack vulnerability with ML/NM you can do (5[2d8+2]+15 + mods + whichever procs/banes that apply) x 1.2 which can be slightly higher than Volley but not significantly because the procs do not scale. Volley is also dual slotted which means you can slot one more aug for DR or whatever additional damage on it than ML/NM.

If you would still like to argue please pick up a Volley, equip it, use it and check the numbers before coming back. I haven't even included the perks of the slow effects it applies, and I will not because it does not affect boss DPS essentially.

[krimsonrane]

Please read the first part of my statement before sounding off as if I didn't read.

Just so you know a vanilla ML/NM GXB has a BDR on the barter of 80.5 vs 86.25 for Volley. Your EQUIPPED ML GXB has a BDR of 105.8 includes some mods on your character. My EQUIPPED Volley has a BDR of 168.8.

Let me very specifically lay out the numbers for you. If you have no party members stacking vulnerability Volley does 5[2d8+3]+15 plus mods x 1.2 on max stacks, ML/NM will do 5[2d8+2]+15 + mods + whichever procs(9d6 good/fire/evil/coid) and banes (9d10 undead/human) that apply. If you have party members that stack vulnerability with ML/NM you can do (5[2d8+2]+15 + mods + whichever procs/banes that apply) x 1.2 which can be slightly higher than Volley but not significantly because the procs do not scale. Volley is also dual slotted which means you can slot one more aug for DR or whatever additional damage on it than ML/NM.

If you would still like to argue please pick up a Volley, equip it, use it and check the numbers before coming back. I haven't even included the perks of the slow effects it applies, and I will not because it does not affect boss DPS essentially.

I specifically said " My Unequipped"

Now. if vanilla is 80 and volly is 86 with no DR breakers, then there's no need to farm runes .

You are also adding A LOT of numbers by equipping your own.

[Fivetigers33]

That may be, but you'll be wasting slots when morning lords listed damage is the best there is so far.

Sorry but it doesn't matter what the BDR says, Volly is hands down better in 99.9% of all situations.

Base Damage Rating is a borderline arbitrary number that gives player's an "at a glance" vague approximation of how well the weapon stacks up to other weapons. It's basically only moderately useful though for players that don't understand what the weapon actually does. Apparently this leads to confusion among some players as to which weapon is better. There is no comparison though, Volley is king.

All you are looking at is the BDR. Other players are looking at Volley's higher actual base damage, which means bigger crits. They look at Volley's vulnerability which increases all their damage by 20%. They look at Volley's Salt, which makes most content a cake walk. They look at Morninglord's DR breaking, and see how easily it is to add that DR breaking to Volley through gear that they would most likely already be wearing. They look at Morninglord's 9d6 proc damage and realize that no real DPS builds care about measily 9d6 proc damage.

[askrj1]

I specifically said " My Unequipped"

Now. if vanilla is 80 and volly is 86 with no DR breakers, then there's no need to farm runes .

You are also adding A LOT of numbers by equipping your own.

I did say the BDR includes things it shouldn't. Even if your GXB was unequipped it will only be 105.8 if it included some effects that stayed on the weapon (e.g. arti buffs) after being unequipped vs a vanilla piece for 80.5. The point is BDR is not an accurate reflection of what the weapon actually has/does.

If only considering the base damage of a bolt on a neutral target Volley outperforms ML/NM by a small margin. A ML/NM will not apply vulnerability and without external sources of that Volley will almost always outperform ML/NM with the bonus damage. On a uniform target with vulnerability applied by a party member ML/NM will do more damage than a Volley by again, a small margin as a result of the extra proc/bane damages. Unless you consistently run with a party you know can and will stack vulnerability Volley is the obvious choice in this comparison.

The damage flags on ML that Volley does not have are good and silver. Good is available in augment (Volley has a second slot, and augment is not hard to get) or from Echo of Ravenkind which is arguably best in slot for any current GXB builds. Silver is available in Molten Silver Gauntlets, which is also a good slot for fort pierce and deadly, barring which you can still fit Silver in runearms or again, in augment, and silver bolts are even easier to come by from the Deneith vendor than buying/crafting holy bolts.

If you're arguing that ML is easier to use as a breaker that is fine. If you're arguing that ML is universally the better performing GXB that is misleading.

[Swimms]

Don't forget rune arms. The two from RL have Tira's Splendor which adds a bypass to silver DR. My great xbow user has both weapons and Volley is what I go with. My NM and ML ones are in the bank. You can break DR from a variety of items both good and silver. Plus Volley is blunted and all the other goodness it has. With Echo of ravenkind for Good DR, I am able to slot a deconstructor and endless night. Then you get the slow, vulnerable stacks, and PK chance.... Not really even close imho. And, if you got yours post update, it is level 28, not level 29.

Basically this, and it is not even close if you have access to a Volley. About the only argument you might have is ease of acquisition of a NM/ML vs a Volley then you might have a case. If you have access to Volley and you use NM/ML then you have other issues.

[askrj1]

I personally use a pure mechanic, which gives me a 35%/x4++, but I will base this on fusillade 35%x3++ since that's the common build nowadays:

Disregarding DR, simple calculation of damage at ~200 ranged power ~80int are:

ML/NM - (7[9+2]+15+35) x 3 (200 power) + 31.5(9d6 proc) + 49.5 (9d10 bane) = 381 + 31.5 + 49.5, average including crits is 704.85 + 81 without vulnerability
Volley - (7[9+3]+15+35) x 3 = 402, average including crits is 743.7, and 892.44 after including vulnerability

I have left out the Force damage and instakills from Nightmares since it's not a 100% land. This also only considers a relatively easily achievable power and damage mod without even including deadly and seeker which while scaling the same way for all 3 crossbows will render the proc damage even more marginal, and scale better with vulnerability.

[barecm]

I specifically said " My Unequipped with 5 filigrees"

Fixed that for you.

Compare apples to apples. Volley damage is higher.

You also state that you would need to use Epic Purifying Quiver to get blunted, but then take shots at others using items to break DR. So let's just assume that blunted and silver/good are not really part of the equation as there are workarounds / gear slots that take care of it. Volley wins easily.

Furthermore, going back to gear selection to close this out, it would be foolish in most cases not to have Suppressive Fire as your rune arm (silver DR) since you will want to pick up Adherents of the Mists set along with Silent Avenger, and SF is part of the AotM set and it frees up glove slot for whatever you want/need, or even drop a different slot and keep AotM on gloves too. Much more flexibility.

Echo of Ravenkind is also a highly desirable item for a ranged toon as it gives improved deception along with +20 con and True Seeing in a slot that used to be reserved for Epic Litany, and is now kind of a free slot. And, as it just so happens, has good DR.

If you have a pocket full of Baba runes, you go get Volley and Echo of Ravenkind. Suppressive Fire is a drop from Final Vintage and can be farmed.

It is basically the same for all the ranged weapons. You can compare NM and ML weapons to Spite, Volley, and now Chaosbow and come up with the same conclusion for each. It is actually easier with a Great Xbow, with the assumed 4+ levels of artificer, to achieve DR compared to a longbow...

[krimsonrane]

I did say the BDR includes things it shouldn't. Even if your GXB was unequipped it will only be 105.8 if it included some effects that stayed on the weapon (e.g. arti buffs) after being unequipped vs a vanilla piece for 80.5. The point is BDR is not an accurate reflection of what the weapon actually has/does.

If only considering the base damage of a bolt on a neutral target Volley outperforms ML/NM by a small margin. A ML/NM will not apply vulnerability and without external sources of that Volley will almost always outperform ML/NM with the bonus damage. On a uniform target with vulnerability applied by a party member ML/NM will do more damage than a Volley by again, a small margin as a result of the extra proc/bane damages. Unless you consistently run with a party you know can and will stack vulnerability Volley is the obvious choice in this comparison.

The damage flags on ML that Volley does not have are good and silver. Good is available in augment (Volley has a second slot, and augment is not hard to get) or from Echo of Ravenkind which is arguably best in slot for any current GXB builds. Silver is available in Molten Silver Gauntlets, which is also a good slot for fort pierce and deadly, barring which you can still fit Silver in runearms or again, in augment, and silver bolts are even easier to come by from the Deneith vendor than buying/crafting holy bolts.

If you're arguing that ML is easier to use as a breaker that is fine. If you're arguing that ML is universally the better performing GXB that is misleading.

Outside of the redname and boss fights, a toon built for gxbows does not get to enjoy vulnerability stacks. Things die way quicker than that.

[Gabrael]

Volley is simply the best weapon damage wise on everything without DR, and the slowdown is good enough I rather use volley on DR mobs anyway, but if you are so adamant about DR breaking:

volley: innate evil flag
trinket: echo of ravenkind - adds good dmg flag
rune arm: Legendary Suppressive Fire/Legendary Blight Inferno - add silver dmg flag
glove: Molten Silver Gauntlets - add silver dmg flag
Augment: Deconstructor - add adamantine (and destruction and extra rust dmg vs construct. Generic lvl 8-12 augment can bypass any material/alignment
Destiny: Fury of the Wild tier 4 "Gird Against Demons" - add cold Iron flag
Destiny: Divine crusader tier 3 "Blessed Blades" - add your alignment as DR flag, can get lawful, chaotic, and good flag
Destiny: Unyielding sentinel tier 4 "purify weapon" - add good flag
Feats: level 26/28/29 can choose between any metal DR bypass from the martial sphere, cold iron/silver/byshek/adamantine

so, if you wanted, you could get:
good: echo of ravenkind
evil: innate to the weapon
lawful: blessed blade tier 3 twist (or 1st augment)
chaotic: 1st augment (or blessed blade tier 3 twist)
silver: rune arm or glove
cold iron: fury tier 4 twist
byshek: destiny feat
adamantine: 2nd augment deconstructor

if you can live without law or chaotic, you could slot a ruby eye instead

[askrj1]

Outside of the redname and boss fights, a toon built for gxbows does not get to enjoy vulnerability stacks. Things die way quicker than that.

Please take a CAREFUL look through the list of mobs where having good/silver makes any real difference now besides boss fights. And as already mentioned repeatedly good and silver are extremely easy to add.

[Xgya]

Just adding my two copper here, but ANYTHING that adds extra Ws (of which there's a ton out there) will edge it out to Volley, since Volley has the bigger damage die (though by a very small margin).
So will anything that adds to damage overall, because of vulnerability stacking.

The Morninglord DR breaking capabilities are easily obtained without sacrificing DPS or item slots, meaning any DPS-increasing or DR-breaking augment you'd want to slot in one, you could in the other, with one caveat: Volley has two of those, meaning that Volley natively clears one more DR that Morninglord couldn't while keeping a slot open for a ruby eye on both of them.

[Dragavon]

That may be, but you'll be wasting slots when morning lords listed damage is the best there is so far. I can't find a base image but my unequipped MLGXbow with 5 filigrees is 105.80. Volley on wikki is 86.25. If you're built to use a GXbow, then you are the vorpal effect.

Epic purifying quiver take care of blunted.

I do not understand how you get that on your ML?

I have 7 filigrees in my Volley, that does not change anything when it is not equipped. It is still 86,25. When I equip it it becomes 172.

A ML gxb has 80,5.

[askrj1]

I do not understand how you get that on your ML?

I have 7 filigrees in my Volley, that does not change anything when it is not equipped. It is still 86,25. When I equip it it becomes 172.

A ML gxb has 80,5.

Some persistent buff effects apply to weapon (sentience not counted) are included in the BDR calculation. Not sure what OP had, but if same buff existed on a Volley while it was in inventory it would probably be 110+ BDR. The whole basis of the OP's argument that ML is better is flawed.

[krimsonrane]

I do not understand how you get that on your ML?

I have 7 filigrees in my Volley, that does not change anything when it is not equipped. It is still 86,25. When I equip it it becomes 172.

A ML gxb has 80,5.

I don't know how. It is what it is. Unequipped with 5 fillagrees is 105.80. I'll get a screen shot when i can.