Sharn - This City of Spiral Staircases

[capsela]

I assume spiral staircases will feature prominently in the new adventure pack based on past performance. Where does this spiral staircase fetish come from and why must it torment us so? Are these the wages of sin?

[Frogger1234]

I assume spiral staircases will feature prominently in the new adventure pack based on past performance. Where does this spiral staircase fetish come from and why must it torment us so? Are these the wages of sin?

Maybe they'll have elevators, like in Tower of Frost. Sharn is more advanced and wealthier than Stormreach, after all.

[LeoLionxxx]

Maybe the center of the spiral staircases could have reverse-gravity zones, like we find in the "Lord of Eyes" quest. That way, it's easy to get off where ever we want.

[droid327]

Maybe the center of the spiral staircases could have reverse-gravity zones, like we find in the "Lord of Eyes" quest. That way, it's easy to get off where ever we want.

Based on history, its more likely they'll have enhanced-gravity zones that override Feather Fall, and invisible airjets randomly placed around the stairs to blow you off...also lots of unnecessary lightning effects to cause lag so you cant turn smoothly as you try to go up.

[capsela]

Ww pt 3
Von5,6
Ravenloft
Coal chamber
Catacombs
Lost at sea
Stk pt 3
Thunder holme raid
The pit everyone loves the pit how can we make everything more like the pit?

I'm sure I've missed many more!

[Chilldude]

Ww pt 3
Von5,6
Ravenloft
Coal chamber
Catacombs
Lost at sea
Stk pt 3
Thunder holme raid
The pit everyone loves the pit how can we make everything more like the pit?

I'm sure I've missed many more!

A lot of those don't really count though. Don't get me wrong, the spiral staircases in Ravenloft are terrible and hopefully avoided in future content, but the reason they are terrible is the tight radius and steepness of the grade to the point where you are constantly turning and therefore can only aim at what is immediately in front of you.

Catacombs, which really only has a spiral staircase in the public zone, is actually an example of the type of stair case they should have used for Ravenloft. As you go up and down you do not have to constantly turn, which allows you to look all around while moving forward. You would be able to look for mobs up ahead, you could aim at them, you could range them, you could quickly advance on them in a straight line, and there isn't a risk of falling off and ending up at the bottom.

The pit isn't really spiral staircases, it's ramps, and the intention is that you can fall down. However, the radius of the ramps is very wide and the grade is very shallow, which allows for full range of sight to spot and combat mobs up ahead.

Coal Chamber is just Coal Chamber. It being difficult and annoying is actually the designer's intention.

I hope the lesson they learn here is they did spiral staircases much, much better in the past. If they ever want to do spiral staircases again they should pattern them after the public area of the catacombs.

[Annex]

While not familiar with Sharn source material, what artwork I have seen features many Round Towers, no doubt occupied by wizards.

I am unsure when Round Towers were first introduced as a form of defensive architecture but they have a long history, probably dating back before Roman times. It would not surprise me if the ancient Sumerians used such structures for they offer very useful architectural and defensive benefits, notably strength, compactness, and beauty.

The sort of Round Tower associated with Wizards and Enchantresses appeared during the Middle Ages. Ireland, in particular, features hundreds of such structures matching our current cultural idea of a Wizard's Tower. I have no doubt such structures were incorporated into Medieval Romance literature soon after they appeared.

The people responsible for Eberron and Sharn no doubt tapped real history for the Round Towers then used an old writer's trick--that but lots more!

Round Towers have round staircases as a simple matter of architectural geometry but it was soon discovered that such staircases offer a very important defensive benefit, one Chilidud expresses angst over. As defensive structures, attackers must enter a Round Tower at the base and fight upwards. By making the staircase narrow and using the correct spiral, defenders get to fight in the stairwell with their sword arm free to swing, while defenders must fight with their sword arms pushed against the inner wall of the spiral. Further, the narrow stairwell necessitates a large force to attack on a very narrow front, effectively negating the advantage of their numbers. Thus, a small number of defenders can hold out against a much larger attacking force using this very simple architectural trick.

The introduction of cannon put an end to such towers, leading to the development of Star Keeps and elaborate Earthworks. This is a good example where the logical consistency of Eberron breaks down. Wizards can throw meteors, turn rock to mud, walk though stone, teleport, and use many other tricks to completely negate the advantages of defensive fortifications yet Eberron continues to feature such things. If magik really did exist, architects would come up with unique structures to thwart all such spells. I doubt such structures would resemble anything seen in Earth history.

[Vooduspyce]

I assume spiral staircases will feature prominently in the new adventure pack based on past performance. Where does this spiral staircase fetish come from and why must it torment us so? Are these the wages of sin?

made me lolz. I feel the same way about spiral stairs after Ravenstuff :p

[JonD]

Where does this spiral staircase fetish come from and why must it torment us so?
As with any opinion on the aesthetics of an object, no-one knows for sure why spiral staircases are so appealing. It's probably in our DNA.

[Selvera]

Ww pt 3
Von5,6
Ravenloft
Coal chamber
Catacombs
Lost at sea
Stk pt 3
Thunder holme raid
The pit everyone loves the pit how can we make everything more like the pit?

I'm sure I've missed many more!

Ok, I'm a little lost here. I've run all of these a number of times, but...

Where's the spiral staircase in ww pt 3? Are you just talking about that one room which has a ramp going up each side? It doesn't even spiral...
VoN6? Are you sure there's a staircase of any description in this raid? It's pretty much a flat zone.
Thunderholme raid? I am very sure that Fire Peaks has no spiral staircases, and I'm really not recalling any in Temple of the Deathwyvern. Do you consider the jump room a spiral staircase or something?

But in general spiral staircases are decent, they allow for quick descending and ranged combat on the staircase in a way that strait staircases just don't offer. I'll agree that catacombs, coal chamber and a couple quests in ravenloft overuse them.

Perhaps we could make everything more like the pit by having little timed traps in every quest that deal 1d6 force damage and cover the majority if the quest?

[Captain_Wizbang]

Not sure where the debate of spiral staircases is coming from in Sharn City DDO version. WHO cares? The only place where this topic is a real issue is Coal Chamber. (how many players make that quest a daily/weekly run? NONE)

Anti-gravity, Air-jets, is what we see in this game, however.... Sharn has mule carts for ward to ward transportation. And Lyrandar Airships for most vertical stuff. Here's copy of the Sharn Intro....


If you have coin to spare, the swiftest method of travel is one of the wonders of Sharn: the skycoach. Magical energy flows through the very air surrounding our city, allowing these vessels to soar through the sky with the ease of a Lyrandar airship. The City Council has fixed the price of transport at one silver per mile; don't let a cunning coachman charge more than he should!

[Selvera]

The City Council has fixed the price of transport at one silver per mile; don't let a cunning coachman charge more than he should!

Sounds like an effective plat sink. Time to get that economy working again!

[NemesisAlien]

To much spiral staircase will make you puke literally staring at the screen...

[LeoLionxxx]

VoN6? Are you sure there's a staircase of any description in this raid? It's pretty much a flat zone.


On the way to the place with the coffer, there's one that has a bunch of zombies at the bottom. Person with the voice needs to go down there.

[Frogger1234]

As with any opinion on the aesthetics of an object, no-one knows for sure why spiral staircases are so appealing. It's probably in our DNA.

Probably because DNA itself kind of looks like a spiral staircase.

[FlimsyFirewood]

Sharn, the City of Towers is also known by its lesser monicker: Sharn, the City of Spiral Staircases for Days.

Currently revising content to add more spiral staircases whenever possible...

... NOT!

In the three dungeons I've made so far, there is only one spiral staircase on a non-critical path, and it has anti-gravity buttons in it, similar to what was used in the Price of Freedom.

I can't vouch for what other designers are making, but I'm sure we'll find other creative ways to annoy, err, entertain the playerbase. Like rectangular staircases. And ladders. Dear lord, the ladders.

It's Sharn. There are towers everywhere. Stairs are going to part of it, one way or another.

[Selvera]

On the way to the place with the coffer, there's one that has a bunch of zombies at the bottom. Person with the voice needs to go down there.

There is no coffer in von6. There is one in von5; maybe you got confused.

In von6 you just run around a circle to destroy 3 pillars then fight a dragon; that is the whole raid. No stairs involved anywhere.

[janave]

Currently revising content to add..


Spiral ladders

[tafla421]

Sharn, the City of Towers is also known by its lesser monicker: Sharn, the City of Spiral Staircases for Days.

Currently revising content to add more spiral staircases whenever possible...

... NOT!

In the three dungeons I've made so far, there is only one spiral staircase on a non-critical path, and it has anti-gravity buttons in it, similar to what was used in the Price of Freedom.

I can't vouch for what other designers are making, but I'm sure we'll find other creative ways to annoy, err, entertain the playerbase. Like rectangular staircases. And ladders. Dear lord, the ladders.

It's Sharn. There are towers everywhere. Stairs are going to part of it, one way or another.

how about sharn city of escalators?

[Gratch]

Sharn, the City of Towers is also known by its lesser monicker: Sharn, the City of Spiral Staircases for Days.


You should add some giant spiral stairs going up one of the public towers. The tower with all the obvious bling treasure tomes in it.

But the kind of stairs that requires a jump of 42... and just a few stairs up should be the Stormreaver waiting to cast Fly.

He's just visiting Sharn for that annoying purpose. Looking down on all the peoples who can't make it up his staircase.

[FuzzyDuck81]

*snip* anti-gravity buttons in it *snip* Like rectangular staircases.*snip*

It's Sharn. There are towers everywhere. Stairs are going to part of it, one way or another.

Suddenly I'm imagining that Escher staircase as one area, with all the variable gravity stuff like in the demonweb where you'll be moving at odd angles...

[Eryhn]

Like rectangular staircases.



https://i.pinimg.com/originals/20/70/1d/20701db00f0e3bc9c358ed296d254b32.gif

[Arkat]

Spiral ladders

Make this happen!!!

[Ralmeth]

Sharn, the City of Towers is also known by its lesser monicker: Sharn, the City of Spiral Staircases for Days.

Currently revising content to add more spiral staircases whenever possible...

... NOT!

In the three dungeons I've made so far, there is only one spiral staircase on a non-critical path, and it has anti-gravity buttons in it, similar to what was used in the Price of Freedom.

I can't vouch for what other designers are making, but I'm sure we'll find other creative ways to annoy, err, entertain the playerbase. Like rectangular staircases. And ladders. Dear lord, the ladders.

It's Sharn. There are towers everywhere. Stairs are going to part of it, one way or another.

Hey, thanks for finally adding in the levitate and fly spells to the game, as well as the fast travel NPCs that take you up and down those towers in a jiffy...

...NOT!

[xCataluna]

Suddenly I'm imagining that Escher staircase as one area, with all the variable gravity stuff like in the demonweb where you'll be moving at odd angles...

LoL, an Esher stair. I would find this hilarious. Do want. XD

[ahpook]

the spiral staircases in Ravenloft are terrible and hopefully avoided in future content,

I like the ravenloft staircases. You have to pay some attention going up to see what is coming. I guess If they removed the "pillars" on the outside wall you could slide across the wall and strafe up the stairs which would be nice.

[dunklezhan]

Sharn, city of teleport error?

Platforms everywhere, and when they malfunction they take you to a one way platform at the bottom of the city, with the next nearest platform three levels and fifteen spiral staircases away.

[droid327]

Its not the amount of spiral staircases in the game that bothers me so much....its the lack of railings

OSHA would just shut Eberron down if they ever got their hands on you...

I just got back into playing SWG on one of the emus recently. Two things struck me immediately. One, how great it is that you cant fall off the side of stairs and ramps in that game. And two, how amazing it is to have an immersive cinematic score. Granted, not every game can benefit from pieces written by John Williams...but then I log into DDO and we got...the Phiarlan piper ><

[zehnvhex]

One, how great it is that you cant fall off the side of stairs and ramps in that game.

On the other hand I've been playing FFxiv lately and it annoys me to no great end that when I see a ledge it doesn't always let me jump off of it. Sometimes the point where you can suddenly drop from one ramp to another or off one cliff or another is seemingly completely arbitrary.

Few things annoy me more in video games than stuff like that. Or like in JRPG's when a tree or boulder will be blocking your path because apparently the tall grass to the left and right is made out of steel and is thus rendered impassable.

[Captain_Wizbang]

It's Sharn. There are towers everywhere. Stairs are going to part of it, one way or another.

Yup.

In PnP we've had many a good time in towers. EG; dwarves trying to make jumps. Rotten steps, (please add some), oil slicks, spikes, I could go on....


I have zero issues with spiral staircases, CC on the other hand with the overhangs IS an issue.:cool:

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

Sharn, the City of Towers is also known by its lesser monicker: Sharn, the City of Spiral Staircases for Days.

Currently revising content to add more spiral staircases whenever possible...

... NOT!

In the three dungeons I've made so far, there is only one spiral staircase on a non-critical path, and it has anti-gravity buttons in it, similar to what was used in the Price of Freedom.

I can't vouch for what other designers are making, but I'm sure we'll find other creative ways to annoy, err, entertain the playerbase. Like rectangular staircases. And ladders. Dear lord, the ladders.

It's Sharn. There are towers everywhere. Stairs are going to part of it, one way or another.

How about putting in a guy who offers to teleport you to the top of the stairs but when you try and haggle him he just teleports you back to the bottom while making you think your haggle succeeded?

[Saekee]

how about a tower you climb by clinging to long tresses?

[Widmore]

Sharn, the City of Towers is also known by its lesser monicker: Sharn, the City of Spiral Staircases for Days.

Currently revising content to add more spiral staircases whenever possible...

I can't vouch for what other designers are making, but I'm sure we'll find other creative ways to annoy, err, entertain the playerbase. .

If you had the money for licencing fees, I'd say you play "More Today Than Yesterday" on an endless loop while we're in the Sharn dungeons.

[SableShadow]

In the three dungeons I've made so far, there is only one spiral staircase on a non-critical path.

Multiple spiral staircases on critical path confirmed! xD

I'm a bad person. :(

[FlimsyFirewood]

Multiple spiral staircases on critical path confirmed! xD

I'm a bad person. :(

Fine, fine, I'll add some more. Twist my arm.

[FlimsyFirewood]

Spiral ladders

This suggestion is clearly the winner here, as it was met with great enthusiasm in the dev pit (it's like The Pit, but full of devs instead of troglodytes).

Now I'm trying to figure out how to implement it.

Maybe if I add some impulse traps... just as you get to the top... on critical path...

[ahpook]

... but full of devs instead of troglodytes ...

As if there is a meaningful distinction.... :rolleyes:

(I say this as a dev manager)

[skorpeon]

This suggestion is clearly the winner here, as it was met with great enthusiasm in the dev pit (it's like The Pit, but full of devs instead of troglodytes).

Now I'm trying to figure out how to implement it.

Maybe if I add some impulse traps... just as you get to the top... on critical path...

Climbing up ropes?

rope ladders, cargo nets

or
Just some nice boxes that move upward and downwards with some soothing bard music?

[Aelonwy]

Maybe if I add some impulse traps... just as you get to the top... on critical path...

You are incorrigible.

I don't want to play The Pit in reverse in Sharn.

[Frogger1234]

This suggestion is clearly the winner here, as it was met with great enthusiasm in the dev pit (it's like The Pit, but full of devs instead of troglodytes).

Now I'm trying to figure out how to implement it.

Maybe if I add some impulse traps... just as you get to the top... on critical path...

Why traps as you get to the top? Why not have them shoot down the spiral ladder as you get part way up, and you have to time climbing around turns on the spiral ladder to miss the force traps? Sort of like the traps on the bridge in The Iron Mines: Freeing Achka and The Iron Mines: Justice for Grust.
And maybe add some air jets …
And spikes …

[Jerevth]

Greased spiral ladders (Jacop's Ladders) with con and strength checks every ten rungs. Inflicts -1 con and strength every ten seconds.

And then a very, very viable named weapon that can never be obtained in the chest at the end.

[guzzlr]

This suggestion is clearly the winner here, as it was met with great enthusiasm in the dev pit (it's like The Pit, but full of devs instead of troglodytes).

Now I'm trying to figure out how to implement it.

Maybe if I add some impulse traps... just as you get to the top... on critical path...

As long as it comes with a swirly, fast moving, water slide on the way down.

[Arkat]

Maybe if I add some impulse traps... just as you get to the top... on critical path...

https://img.memecdn.com/DO-WANT_o_142046.jpg

[janave]

Sentient phasing ladder,
- can only move up facing away from it,
- it is very veeery long,
- throws insults at the player while climbing,
- a 2nd successful bluff check will make it stop phasing, only if wearing a cape.
- on a failed bluff it becomes animated and leaves the dungeon.

[Anuulified]

This suggestion is clearly the winner here, as it was met with great enthusiasm in the dev pit (it's like The Pit, but full of devs instead of troglodytes).

Now I'm trying to figure out how to implement it.

Maybe if I add some impulse traps... just as you get to the top... on critical path...

Add flying to ddo, it is a spell after all. :-)

[askrj1]

Add flying to ddo, it is a spell after all. :-)

Add the fly spell, but make sure to add the no-fly zone right before the trap :D

[LightBear]

This suggestion is clearly the winner here, as it was met with great enthusiasm in the dev pit (it's like The Pit, but full of devs instead of troglodytes).

Now I'm trying to figure out how to implement it.

Maybe if I add some impulse traps... just as you get to the top... on critical path...

Do I hear a new "Spies in the house" there?
Or a Epic Burning City?

Perhaps a Prove Your Worth?

Don't forget to place invisible walls that prevent players from making it in a single jump.

[SableShadow]

As long as it comes with a swirly, fast moving, water slide on the way down.

Yes! Chutes and Ladders! use the ice ramps from the winter event, maybe? grease ramps? grease ramps ON FIRE!?


Fine, fine, I'll add some more. Twist my arm.

Helping! I'm a helper!

[guzzlr]

Yes! Chutes and Ladders! use the ice ramps from the winter event, maybe? grease ramps? grease ramps ON FIRE!?



Oooo, Ramps...Grease...Huge Flaming Sphere (ala Indiana Jones, with fire added).... splash into Oily Pit of Doooooom! Get out before the Flaming Sphere gets ya!

Wooohooo!

[capsela]

staircase police another one spotted dead girls spellbook

[Ladywolf]

nothing super dizzying please... spiral staircases and that spinny tunnel in wpm were bad enuf!

[jskinner937]

Ok, I'm a little lost here. I've run all of these a number of times, but...

Where's the spiral staircase in ww pt 3? Are you just talking about that one room which has a ramp going up each side? It doesn't even spiral...
VoN6? Are you sure there's a staircase of any description in this raid? It's pretty much a flat zone.
Thunderholme raid? I am very sure that Fire Peaks has no spiral staircases, and I'm really not recalling any in Temple of the Deathwyvern. Do you consider the jump room a spiral staircase or something?

But in general spiral staircases are decent, they allow for quick descending and ranged combat on the staircase in a way that strait staircases just don't offer. I'll agree that catacombs, coal chamber and a couple quests in ravenloft overuse them.

Perhaps we could make everything more like the pit by having little timed traps in every quest that deal 1d6 force damage and cover the majority if the quest?

He said VoN 5/6 which is how most ppl refer to the combined raid. But yes technically it is only in VoN 5.

And yes there is most definitely spiral a spiral staircase in WW pt 3. The room south of the drop down point where you need to kill a bunch of kobolds and traverse the spiral staircase to get the top lever to open the way to the shrine and 2 blue levers to open dropdown shaft (assuming the green lever was already pulled).

[Xharath]

You know the anticipation you had/have befor Christmas OR for more
Older people the thrill you get when you start to Search for the new car. Reading the spec looking for the model on the internet compare Well just the prefun.. for that to have you will need information. The last official News dates from A article in Dragon+ in the from of a intervieuw. No concept art No sneak Peeks No devolpment News nada. Does standing Stones even have a marketing department? If so they do a sh@tty job.

[Saekee]

This suggestion is clearly the winner here, as it was met with great enthusiasm in the dev pit (it's like The Pit, but full of devs instead of troglodytes).

Now I'm trying to figure out how to implement it.

Maybe if I add some impulse traps... just as you get to the top... on critical path...
Ok add two most annoying things: 1) tall stairwells that have traps that blow you back down and 2) tendon slice. Easy enough to put that together: spiral wind staircase of tendon slicing

[locus]

A lot of those don't really count though. Don't get me wrong, the spiral staircases in Ravenloft are terrible and hopefully avoided in future content, but the reason they are terrible is the tight radius and steepness of the grade to the point where you are constantly turning and therefore can only aim at what is immediately in front of you.


There was another recent quest with spiral staircases that was ok though. Ravenloft is really bad - and it's because the outer walls of the staircases have bumps so you cann't just walk right and press in towards the wall and end up at the right spot. This tactic still is helpful though, it's just less convenient than elsewhere. But facing the wall and pushing right still is better than normal walking.