return of the Abishai set?

[krimsonrane]

Soooo....
Everyone knows that the only gear worth farming/having is whatever came with the last 3 updates. Everything else has been eclipsed by power creep and gets relegated to the eternally banked but dare not throw away sleep of "loved it but will never use it again". Some of those rare items are just great designs we're sad to see go off into the "Nowadays everything else has near double your stats" pile.

One of my favorites is the 5 piece chrono set. Is it at all possible that we can see an updated return of the famous Abishai set?
purty pweez?

[slarden]

If they do this it should be as up-to-date min level 20 gear - most of the level 20 named items are worse than random loot.

[krimsonrane]

If they do this it should be as up-to-date min level 20 gear - most of the level 20 named items are worse than random loot.

Exactly. level 20 with the appropriate spell power enhancements and +11 or +12 stats. Actually, they could recreate it from scratch with new powers and i'd be happy.

[krimsonrane]

If they do this it should be as up-to-date min level 20 gear - most of the level 20 named items are worse than random loot.
It sure is. just about every one of them are long outdated. they went from EPIC gear to MEh'pic gear.

[Selvera]

From when last I checked; 3 piece Abishai set is pretty meta for levels 5-9 still, some might like it all the way up to 15.
I'm sorry if you wanted to use it in epics; at cap is where old gear is eclipsed the worst.

[krimsonrane]

From when last I checked; 3 piece Abishai set is pretty meta for levels 5-9 still, some might like it all the way up to 15.
I'm sorry if you wanted to use it in epics; at cap is where old gear is eclipsed the worst.

I haven't used the abashai heroic set in many lives. I used to as well a long time ago, but with power creep and cannith crafting it's not worth it for melee.

[simo0208]

From when last I checked; 3 piece Abishai set is pretty meta for levels 5-9 still, some might like it all the way up to 15.
I'm sorry if you wanted to use it in epics; at cap is where old gear is eclipsed the worst.

Nope. The haste goggles and gloves are all that see play. At level 8 slavers surpasses all. Level 10 if you want the much easier grind of ravenloft. I can’t see anyone using to 15.

[mr420247]

Do not tease me with an awesome r10 dps caster set please

[krimsonrane]

Do not tease me with an awesome r10 dps caster set please

https://cdn.eventfinda.co.nz/uploads/events/transformed/813815-376976-14.jpg?v=4

[cru121]

I am using 3 piece abishai set on:
* evoker artificers on levels 6 to 9 (before that I am shooting, after that you reach top potential of blast rod)
* evoker bards - 5 up to level 14 (shout has max CL 15)
* sorcerers and wizards - as needed
* divine evokers - I have not played those recently, but it does seem useful

I might have used it on some melee lives, but there it is less useful.

Heroic abishai set would also be a nice candidate for a revamp by our favorite radical enthusiast dev. Make all abilities +4, make elemental resistance insightful, and you're almost done.

[Lynnabel]

Heroic abishai set would also be a nice candidate for a revamp by our favorite radical enthusiast dev.

So here's the dealio - and I know you guys didn't ask for this, but I'm in a sharing mood, so have some info - until we figure out a way to redesign the Gem of Many Facets, Chrono loot is actually off the short list of packs I'd love to sink my claws into. We have a much lighter, much faster, much less lag inducing, much easier to use set bonus system, and when we get to Chrono's loot we really should put the Abishai and Red Fens items on it. That being said, our new set bonus tech only supports two at a time. Our options are 1: Redesign the Gem of Many Facets (I've got no idea what it'll look like without destroying the soul of the item), or 2: Delete/destroy the item properly (completely blindsides people not on the forums, plus it's technically raid gear, and if it was working before it's hard to explain why it won't work now), or 3: leave it as-is until we figure out if we want to tackle options 1 or 2.

Believe me, I'd love to take a stab at it. The more items on our new set bonus system, the faster the game will run - seriously. And I've got a huge soft spot for the Abishai set myself, epic set (which I grinded out) included.

So, yeah. Either way, it's not happening before Sharn, which is taking up a lot of our time as we work to make it as radical as possible. I know Ravenloft really blew you guys away, but believe me - you ain't seen nothin' yet :)

[PsychoBlonde]

That being said, our new set bonus tech only supports two at a time.

Er, what does this mean? Characters can only have 2 active set bonuses? (Can't possibly be true.) Items can only belong to a maximum of 2 sets? (Sounds plausible, and would explain why Gem of Many Facets is a problem.)

What you could do to resolve this would be that instead of having the Gem of Many Facets act as part of multiple sets, you could create a multi-piece set bonus where it acts as a SINGLE set and just bestows ALL the benefits of the sets. Call it the Blessing of the Red Fens.

In case this doesn't make any sense (and I'm sure it doesn't), how this would work is that each of the Red Fens items would belong to 2 sets, like this:

Epic Shaman's Fury -- requires Epic Shaman's Beads and Epic Shaman's Band, grants 2-piece set bonus

Blessing of the Red Fens -- requires ANY 5 Red Fens items equipped, grants a SINGLE bonus that includes ALL of the effects of the Red Fens sets, so:
+84 Acid/Cold/Electric/Fire spellpower
6% acid/cold/electric/cold spell crit and 50% spell crit damage
+4 damage
Vulkoorim poison on vorpals
+90 healing spellpower
+2 saves/+4 AC
+4 hit, +3 search/spot
30% striding and +15 jump

Then, what you could also do is to have 2 sets on the Epic Gem of Many Facets, so that it would look like this:

Blessing of the Red Fens: This item is a piece of the Epic Red Fens set, when five items are equipped it grants etc. etc.

AND

Greater Might of the Abishai This item is a piece of the Greater Might of the Abishai set, when three items are equipped it grants etc. etc. etc.

Yellow Slot

That way, it would only belong to 2 sets total. Yes, it'd be different than how it works now--you'd have to wear 5 total red fens items to get the Big Set bonus. But, on the other hand, you could wear ANY five red fens items, ONE of which could be the Gem of Many Facets. This would also make it possible for you to get BOTH the red fens AND the greater might of the abishai set bonuses by wearing the right items from BOTH sets.

It'd open up the possibility to have a very nice set of level 20 gear for a large number of possible character builds from those two epic sets together. So that would actually make Red Fens pretty cool again. And you'd get to keep the essence of what the Gem of Many Facets does now, with a slight modification that would make it work with your new set bonus tech.

And you could do much the same thing but a slightly different "meta set" for the heroic version.

You could even *gasp* add a few items for the Chronoscope set, making it much more possible to mix and match. So, basically, red fens and chronoscope would both have sets that work much like the Adherent of the Mists set, and the Gem of Many Facets ties them together because it's in both sets.

[QuantumFX]

That being said, our new set bonus tech only supports two at a time.

How about removing it from all the sets and giving a static bonus that only activates if you have *any* set bonus going? This wouldn’t make it part of the set, merely detect if the set bonus channel is active and grant the bonus.

[Lynnabel]

How about removing it from all the sets and giving a static bonus that only activates if you have *any* set bonus going? This wouldn’t make it part of the set, merely detect if the set bonus channel is active and grant the bonus.

Funnily enough, that is actually really close to how our old set bonuses work :)

[Elfishski]

So here's the dealio - and I know you guys didn't ask for this, but I'm in a sharing mood, so have some info - until we figure out a way to redesign the Gem of Many Facets, Chrono loot is actually off the short list of packs I'd love to sink my claws into. We have a much lighter, much faster, much less lag inducing, much easier to use set bonus system, and when we get to Chrono's loot we really should put the Abishai and Red Fens items on it. That being said, our new set bonus tech only supports two at a time. Our options are 1: Redesign the Gem of Many Facets (I've got no idea what it'll look like without destroying the soul of the item), or 2: Delete/destroy the item properly (completely blindsides people not on the forums, plus it's technically raid gear, and if it was working before it's hard to explain why it won't work now), or 3: leave it as-is until we figure out if we want to tackle options 1 or 2.

No idea if this workaround would be possible, but how about making it a slottable item with augment-type things "the many gems of facets" that drop in the raid and each add one set bonus, so you can functionally pick any two?

[cru121]

If this is an À la carte development, for (heroic) Gem of Many Facets, indeed make it upgradeable:
* by default, it should be a part of Might of the Abishai set
* use Red Fens components to make it a member of one of Red Fens set
* use Vistani Tokens to make it a member of one of Ravenloft sets
* use Slavers ings to make it a member of one of Slavers sets
* use Madness ings to make it a member of Disciples of Rage sets
* use (something) to make it a member of The Devil's Gambit sets

[Xgya]

I still use my original set at level 5.
It's not the best that ever was, but it covers a lot of bases.

If it ever gets an upgrade, I'll want it.

Matter of fact, I ALREADY want it.

Geef.

[Selvera]

Nope. The haste goggles and gloves are all that see play. At level 8 slavers surpasses all. Level 10 if you want the much easier grind of ravenloft. I can’t see anyone using to 15.

Nothing in slavers or ravenloft gives +1 caster level to evo spells. While it might be arguable that 3 slots for 1 caster level could be better used for defense, getting 3/5 of them not in a slot for spellpower or DC should be doable while still using slavelords and/or ravenloft.

[askrj1]

Exactly. level 20 with the appropriate spell power enhancements and +11 or +12 stats. Actually, they could recreate it from scratch with new powers and i'd be happy.

Actually actually, ML20 on a good roll is a +6. +10 doesn't even come till 28. Unless you're holding an ESoS.

[Xgya]

Actually actually, ML20 on a good roll is a +6. +10 doesn't even come till 28. Unless you're holding an ESoS.

+6 is min level 10, not 20. You're really, REALLY off the mark here. And that's forgetting that the upgraded ioun stones are level 5.
And that's without using insightful stats (+6 +2 insightful is still a level 10 item)
The "good roll" (i.e: Cannith-crafted) on a level 20 item is +9, with +4 insightful.

Addendum: The +6 you're referring to is on the Cannith Table as the item's actual Enhancement bonus, which only works for weapons/armors, of which the Abishai set has none.

[LightBear]

So here's the dealio - and I know you guys didn't ask for this, but I'm in a sharing mood, so have some info - until we figure out a way to redesign the Gem of Many Facets, Chrono loot is actually off the short list of packs I'd love to sink my claws into. We have a much lighter, much faster, much less lag inducing, much easier to use set bonus system, and when we get to Chrono's loot we really should put the Abishai and Red Fens items on it. That being said, our new set bonus tech only supports two at a time. Our options are 1: Redesign the Gem of Many Facets (I've got no idea what it'll look like without destroying the soul of the item), or 2: Delete/destroy the item properly (completely blindsides people not on the forums, plus it's technically raid gear, and if it was working before it's hard to explain why it won't work now), or 3: leave it as-is until we figure out if we want to tackle options 1 or 2.

Believe me, I'd love to take a stab at it. The more items on our new set bonus system, the faster the game will run - seriously. And I've got a huge soft spot for the Abishai set myself, epic set (which I grinded out) included.

So, yeah. Either way, it's not happening before Sharn, which is taking up a lot of our time as we work to make it as radical as possible. I know Ravenloft really blew you guys away, but believe me - you ain't seen nothin' yet :)
If the limitation is two sets active at the same time then either replace that limitation or work around it by a barter/craft into something else?

Prob over simplifying things here by a magnitude of an eclipse but how about:
switch(listOfSetXItemsWearing.size() + wearingGemSetBonus())
{ case 0||1: do nothing; break;
case 2: grand thing A; break;
case 3: grand thing A; grand thing B; break;
case 4: grand thing A; grand thing B; grand thing C; break;
case 5: you get it; break;
}

Integer wearingGemSetBonus(){
if (wearingGem()){ return 1}
else{return 0}
}

[janave]

Could be a tradeoff where set items dont support hotswapping, but are significant bonuses. Players need to equip the gear then use an "activate gearsets" feat to toggle on the thing with cooldown and a progress bar.

[Ghwyn]

So, yeah. Either way, it's not happening before Sharn, which is taking up a lot of our time as we work to make it as radical as possible. I know Ravenloft really blew you guys away, but believe me - you ain't seen nothin' yet :)

As someone who has read the Eberon books and knows the lore, I would expect something amazing. The city of Sharn is described as quite an amazing place, along with a really nice underbelly.

This is the place I have most wanted to see in DDO.

[Aelonwy]

If this is an À la carte development, for (heroic) Gem of Many Facets, indeed make it upgradeable:
* by default, it should be a part of Might of the Abishai set
* use Red Fens components to make it a member of one of Red Fens set
* use Vistani Tokens to make it a member of one of Ravenloft sets
* use Slavers ings to make it a member of one of Slavers sets
* use Madness ings to make it a member of Disciples of Rage sets
* use (something) to make it a member of The Devil's Gambit sets

I'd like this^.

[krimsonrane]

Actually actually, ML20 on a good roll is a +6. +10 doesn't even come till 28. Unless you're holding an ESoS.

20 is +9 crafting.

[askrj1]

20 is +9 crafting.

+6 is the item enhancement bonus, stats yeh +9/i4, which starts at 18...

[btolson]

the short list of packs I'd love to sink my claws into

I would love it if you guys could revisit some packs and re-do just the weapons that don't allow Sentience.

For example, the Druid's Chain. Remove the current versions of e.g. Brush Hook from dropping, and create a new level 23 Brush Hook that can take Sentience. You don't really have to monkey any stats (phlebotomizing, etc) on them either. Just a single ML version to take Sentience, and who cares about the rest.

You don't have to do any of the non-weapons until waaay off in the future.

Sentience options are limited enough. Further limited by the ML 22/23/24 etc variations of loot design that can't take it.

[krimsonrane]

I don't ever remember any time in all these years when someone either wore that trinket or said "hey, I need to farm that". Even when it was brand new. Just leave the trinket out.

[Aelonwy]

I would love it if you guys could revisit some packs and re-do just the weapons that don't allow Sentience.

For example, the Druid's Chain. Remove the current versions of e.g. Brush Hook from dropping, and create a new level 23 Brush Hook that can take Sentience. You don't really have to monkey any stats (phlebotomizing, etc) on them either. Just a single ML version to take Sentience, and who cares about the rest.

You don't have to do any of the non-weapons until waaay off in the future.

Sentience options are limited enough. Further limited by the ML 22/23/24 etc variations of loot design that can't take it.

I would like to see the packs that have the loot dispersed as N/H/E//EN/EH/EE fixed to drop a single Heroic/Epic version. That would be Druid's Deep, High Road, Wheloon, Stormhorns, and Gianthold, IIRC. This would also help mid-epic itemization.

[Sho-sa]

So here's the dealio - and I know you guys didn't ask for this, but I'm in a sharing mood,...

So, yeah. Either way, it's not happening before Sharn, which is taking up a lot of our time as we work to make it as radical as possible. I know Ravenloft really blew you guys away, but believe me - you ain't seen nothin' yet :)


Ooooooo, all sorts of inappropriate exciting thoughts come to mind here. ;-)

[Lynnabel]

I would like to see the packs that have the loot dispersed as N/H/E//EN/EH/EE fixed to drop a single Heroic/Epic version. That would be Druid's Deep, High Road, Wheloon, Stormhorns, and Gianthold, IIRC. This would also help mid-epic itemization.

I agree completely! Internally, these items are very hard to work with, and externally, they provide a lackluster spread of in-demand statistics. Remaking them to be less badtm is something we'd love to tackle, given the right time :)

[Aelonwy]

I agree completely! Internally, these items are very hard to work with, and externally, they provide a lackluster spread of in-demand statistics. Remaking them to be less badtm is something we'd love to tackle, given the right time :)

Good to hear. I hope the right time comes up sometime later this year.

[mr420247]

You know what else would be nice level 30 eda reaper 1-10

That can give rxp and a token per skull

I'd farm that for tokens again

[Gabrael]

I agree completely! Internally, these items are very hard to work with, and externally, they provide a lackluster spread of in-demand statistics. Remaking them to be less badtm is something we'd love to tackle, given the right time :)

would that mean the EN/EH/EE versions of the weapons would stop dropping with the erroneous heroic die? cuz right now any epic weapon got the x[w] damage die identical to their heroic counterpart.
at one point they did a change to genloot weapon die, (think when they removed the paragon stuff) and it borked all these multiple diff weapons

[Aelonwy]

would that mean the EN/EH/EE versions of the weapons would stop dropping with the erroneous heroic die? cuz right now any epic weapon got the x[w] damage die identical to their heroic counterpart.
at one point they did a change to genloot weapon die, (think when they removed the paragon stuff) and it borked all these multiple diff weapons

I would hope so.

Additionally, I wonder if upgrades/fixes to these items would change the binding status. Currently most/all? of this particular loot is BtC-on-equip which allows for trading but I read somewhere that was frowned on because it supposedly reduced sales of the corresponding adventure packs. Which is why nearly all recent loot is BTA. However, since most named loot is bought/sold on the A$AH wouldn't that increase the sales of Astral shards? I'm only curious because while I own all the adventures this loot comes from, my kids' accounts do not and I like sharing with them when I can.

[Seljuck]

Old epic items definitely require corrections. Currently at level 20, there is a vacuum in items. Most items from levels 15-18 are better than epic ones from 20th.

It's sad that when I reach level 20, I go to the bank and I have nothing to wear, because all my old items are WEAKER than new one or even random one.

[krimsonrane]

Old epic items definitely require corrections. Currently at level 20, there is a vacuum in items. Most items from levels 15-18 are better than epic ones from 20th.

It's sad that when I reach level 20, I go to the bank and I have nothing to wear, because all my old items are WEAKER than new one or even random one.

I know the feeling well.
Right now my latest incarnation is level 20 with 90% crafted gear, a 10th level belt and using the 9th level version of whelm.
I've had to spend hours farming moss, beetles and hymnals because there is simple nothing worth using.

[kmoustakas]

So here's the dealio - and I know you guys didn't ask for this, but I'm in a sharing mood, so have some info - until we figure out a way to redesign the Gem of Many Facets, Chrono loot is actually off the short list of packs I'd love to sink my claws into. We have a much lighter, much faster, much less lag inducing, much easier to use set bonus system, and when we get to Chrono's loot we really should put the Abishai and Red Fens items on it. That being said, our new set bonus tech only supports two at a time. Our options are 1: Redesign the Gem of Many Facets (I've got no idea what it'll look like without destroying the soul of the item), or 2: Delete/destroy the item properly (completely blindsides people not on the forums, plus it's technically raid gear, and if it was working before it's hard to explain why it won't work now), or 3: leave it as-is until we figure out if we want to tackle options 1 or 2.

Believe me, I'd love to take a stab at it. The more items on our new set bonus system, the faster the game will run - seriously. And I've got a huge soft spot for the Abishai set myself, epic set (which I grinded out) included.

So, yeah. Either way, it's not happening before Sharn, which is taking up a lot of our time as we work to make it as radical as possible. I know Ravenloft really blew you guys away, but believe me - you ain't seen nothin' yet :)

You know, you could always just change the minimum level of the gem of many facets to 1 so you can equip it in korthos for the lols. Then perhaps add the red fens combination to it - the heroic one, it already works on the epic. With the change to the heroic red fens loot it would actually be really good of a trinket now.

[btolson]

I would like to see the packs that have the loot dispersed as N/H/E//EN/EH/EE fixed to drop a single Heroic/Epic version. That would be Druid's Deep, High Road, Wheloon, Stormhorns, and Gianthold, IIRC. This would also help mid-epic itemization.

The weapons from those packs are:

Druid's Deep
Thunderstorm Crescent
Forester's Brush Hook
Ivy Wraps
Swailing Blade

High Road
Forgotten Light
Ironwood Khopesh
Roadwatch Bow

Gianthold
Skullsmasher
Windlasher
Axe of Adaxus
Crystalline Scepter
Charoush's Inferno
Royal Scimitar
Adamantine Knuckles
The Mountain's Fist
Great Axe of the Chained Soldier
Silver Ingot Arcanum
Copper Ingot Arcanum
Hammer of the Leaden Clouds
Allegiance (Khopesh)
Bronze Ingot Arcanum
Tortured Livewood Bow
(raid weapons already exist in single ML form only)

Wheloon
Prison Break
The Morning Star
Fell Shiv
First Blood
Trapsmith's Crossbow

Stormhorns
Magistrate's Scepter
Master's Riposte
Giant's Fist
Elemental Fury
Frostbite Blade
Thunder and Lightning (Handwraps)

A Study in Sable
Hunter's Slayer


Study in Sable would be easy to hit. Druid's Deep and High Road seem manageable to do reasonably fast. The others are more intensive.

[LightBear]

I agree completely! Internally, these items are very hard to work with, and externally, they provide a lackluster spread of in-demand statistics. Remaking them to be less badtm is something we'd love to tackle, given the right time :)

They are the best designed items in game, really gives you something to go for and in its way is the predecessor of the current difficulty/endgame/rare bonuses.