Help with Half Orc 2H Druid progression

[Question2005]

Im trying to come up with a build for a half orc 2H druid. Heroics only, so cap is realistically at 18 (at 20 im just farming tokens/favor/etc).

So far :

Level 1-3, take druid

Level 1 : Martial proficiency (feat swap to power attack before taking level 4)

Level 3 : natural fighting (would be able to max out natural fighting by level 9)

Level 4 : Fighter, cleave

Level 5 : Fighter, great cleave

Level 6-10 : Druid (for winter wolf form)

Level 11 : Fighter for stalwart defense (much better than the nature defense stance for 2H without raging)

Level 12-15 : Druid, lets me get +1 crit multiplier via the level 12 druid core enhancement

Level 12 : Improved crit (pretty late)

Main issue with this is that level 12 is pretty late for improved crit, but I cant take it at level 9 due to not having enough BAB. If i take more fighter levels, I can get it earlier, but that pushes back the druid level 12 core for +1 crit multiplier. Level 15 is also quite late for +1 crit multiplier.

I would probably take a 4th level of fighter for weapon specialization at least, not sure if I should take more fighter levels or not at this point.

Enhancements wise, I would do nature's warrior t5 since that is the earliest t5 available and I need the melee power ASAP, and attack speed from harrier is just too good to delay. Nature's Defense would be the defensive stance for the early half of heroics, switching over to Stalwart Defense when I get the 3rd fighter level. Half orc tree would be mostly for added damage, and would be more AP efficient than the Kensei tree (18 points in the half orc tree gets you lock bash and +14 damage, much better than what 18 points in Kensei gets you).

But the class progression does not seem very optimal because Druid gets no 2H proficiencies, forcing me to take the first fighter level earlier than I would like. Any suggestions?

[C-Dog]

Im trying to come up with a build for a half orc 2H druid. Heroics only, so cap is realistically at 18
Wise. ;)


...Main issue with this is that level 12 is pretty late for improved crit, but I cant take it at level 9 due to not having enough BAB. If i take more fighter levels, I can get it earlier, but that pushes back the druid level 12 core for +1 crit multiplier. Level 15 is also quite late for +1 crit multiplier.

I would probably take a 4th level of fighter for weapon specialization at least, not sure if I should take more fighter levels or not at this point...

Any suggestions?
That you accept the game as is?

Seriously, we've all been there - and you can't have everything. And one of the many things you can't (easily) have is IC before 12 w/ a Class that doesn't have a 1:1 BAB progression (https://ddowiki.com/page/Base_Attack_Bonus#Progression). So, actually, no, IC @ Level 12 is about as early as you can hope for w/ a "non-warrior class" build.

Using Fighter for better BAB and the Feat slots does help, but not completely. You could, at best, squeeze it up to about Level 10. Only marginally better. You'd need to be a Fighter 5/Druid 4 to get it at 9 (which is very HOrc, but doesn't sound like this build - ymmv). ;)


What you could do, since I don't see any Feat listed @ 6+, is save Fighter 2 for Level 10. That would delay Great Cleave by only 1 level (5->6) but move your Druid progression up, and get Winter Wolf form @ Level 9, a level earlier. (Otoh if you have some key unnamed Feat you're reserving the 6-slot for, that won't work.)

Stalwart Defense asap after that - maybe 11, maybe 12 after you get your Level 5 spells, or (if you insist) @ 15 after Druid 12 and Crit Multiplier. (I'd do it @ 12.)

[Zretch]

Im trying to come up with a build for a half orc 2H druid. Heroics only, so cap is realistically at 18 (at 20 im just farming tokens/favor/etc).

So far :

Level 1-3, take druid

Level 1 : Martial proficiency (feat swap to power attack before taking level 4)

Level 3 : natural fighting (would be able to max out natural fighting by level 9)

Level 4 : Fighter, cleave

Level 5 : Fighter, great cleave

Level 6-10 : Druid (for winter wolf form)

Level 11 : Fighter for stalwart defense (much better than the nature defense stance for 2H without raging)

Level 12-15 : Druid, lets me get +1 crit multiplier via the level 12 druid core enhancement

Level 12 : Improved crit (pretty late)

Main issue with this is that level 12 is pretty late for improved crit, but I cant take it at level 9 due to not having enough BAB. If i take more fighter levels, I can get it earlier, but that pushes back the druid level 12 core for +1 crit multiplier. Level 15 is also quite late for +1 crit multiplier.

I would probably take a 4th level of fighter for weapon specialization at least, not sure if I should take more fighter levels or not at this point.

Enhancements wise, I would do nature's warrior t5 since that is the earliest t5 available and I need the melee power ASAP, and attack speed from harrier is just too good to delay. Nature's Defense would be the defensive stance for the early half of heroics, switching over to Stalwart Defense when I get the 3rd fighter level. Half orc tree would be mostly for added damage, and would be more AP efficient than the Kensei tree (18 points in the half orc tree gets you lock bash and +14 damage, much better than what 18 points in Kensei gets you).

But the class progression does not seem very optimal because Druid gets no 2H proficiencies, forcing me to take the first fighter level earlier than I would like. Any suggestions?

Either go 6 fighter and invest in the kensai tree (Core 3 Strike with no Thought, tier 1 haste boost, tier 4 opportunity attack, tier 5 keen edge, one with the blade, and deadly strike), or go pure Druid.

The fighter route gives you +40 melee power, +1 crit range and multiplier (vs just multiplier), haste boost is huge to race down red names, and extra dodge cap.

The druid route gives you better spells earlier.

In either case, get to the 3rd core in nature's warrior for the spell cooldown reduction (even if only to make sleet storm available more often), ghost wolf pack, essence of shrike, and two legs good are all good enhancements to take. If you're going pure druid, pretty much all of the tier 5s are good, and Go for the Kill is money. :)

I think pure druid starts out easier. Druid/fighter is great for an iconic build. Level 8 druid is a priority, don't put off winter wolf form too long. 30% attack speed is a major boost. Improved crit is nice, but it's not as game changing as winter wolf form or getting to your tier 5s (in either kensai or druid, depending on your choice).

[Question2005]

Wise. ;)


That you accept the game as is?

Seriously, we've all been there - and you can't have everything. And one of the many things you can't (easily) have is IC before 12 w/ a Class that doesn't have a 1:1 BAB progression (https://ddowiki.com/page/Base_Attack_Bonus#Progression). So, actually, no, IC @ Level 12 is about as early as you can hope for w/ a "non-warrior class" build.

Using Fighter for better BAB and the Feat slots does help, but not completely. You could, at best, squeeze it up to about Level 10. Only marginally better. You'd need to be a Fighter 5/Druid 4 to get it at 9 (which is very HOrc, but doesn't sound like this build - ymmv). ;)


What you could do, since I don't see any Feat listed @ 6+, is save Fighter 2 for Level 10. That would delay Great Cleave by only 1 level (5->6) but move your Druid progression up, and get Winter Wolf form @ Level 9, a level earlier. (Otoh if you have some key unnamed Feat you're reserving the 6-slot for, that won't work.)

Stalwart Defense asap after that - maybe 11, maybe 12 after you get your Level 5 spells, or (if you insist) @ 15 after Druid 12 and Crit Multiplier. (I'd do it @ 12.)

That would delay natural fighting as well, so it would be like :

Level 1 : Martial proficiency (feat swap to power attack before taking level 4)

Level 3 : natural fighting (would be able to max out natural fighting by level 9)

Level 4 : Fighter, cleave

Level 5-9 : Druid

Level 6 : Great Cleave

Level 9 : Winter wolf form Natural fighting 2

Level 10 : Fighter, Improved critical

Level 11 : Fighter for stalwart defense (much better than the nature defense stance for 2H without raging)

Level 12-15 : Druid, lets me get +1 crit multiplier via the level 12 druid core enhancement

Which might be better.

[Question2005]

Either go 6 fighter and invest in the kensai tree (Core 3 Strike with no Thought, tier 1 haste boost, tier 4 opportunity attack, tier 5 keen edge, one with the blade, and deadly strike), or go pure Druid.

The fighter route gives you +40 melee power, +1 crit range and multiplier (vs just multiplier), haste boost is huge to race down red names, and extra dodge cap.

The druid route gives you better spells earlier.

In either case, get to the 3rd core in nature's warrior for the spell cooldown reduction (even if only to make sleet storm available more often), ghost wolf pack, essence of shrike, and two legs good are all good enhancements to take. If you're going pure druid, pretty much all of the tier 5s are good, and Go for the Kill is money. :)

I think pure druid starts out easier. Druid/fighter is great for an iconic build. Level 8 druid is a priority, don't put off winter wolf form too long. 30% attack speed is a major boost. Improved crit is nice, but it's not as game changing as winter wolf form or getting to your tier 5s (in either kensai or druid, depending on your choice).

Im almost done with a druid 12/fighter 8 life, at the start I thought I would take Kensei T5 as well, but I realised while leveling that I wouldnt have enough AP till level 20 and I would need to AP reset my nature's warrior tree to move the AP over to the kensei tree, so it wasnt worth it.

The only way I can see that going Kensei would work is if you did mostly Fighter levels and ignored the nature's warrior tree to rush the Kensei tree. That would probably mean doing Druid 3 -> Fighter 6 before taking any more druid levels. That pushes winter wolf form back to level 14, and also delays the druid t4 fatal harrier a LOT since you wont have enough AP. Overall I think you end up with less DPS due to having way less attack speed (40% from winter wolf + fatal harrier).

[Emerge2012]

Honestly I'd skip fighter altogether. Sleet Storm is ridiculously powerful and let's you speed through everything.

[Question2005]

Honestly I'd skip fighter altogether. Sleet Storm is ridiculously powerful and let's you speed through everything.

Its not, it doesn't affect bosses, doesnt seem to stop AOE casters, doesnt stop ranged enemies outside the AOE of the storm and requires you to cast FOM on the whole party (very inconvenient). Its OP against melee players at low levels because there are no counters at that level, but when I was using it in wrath of the earth, it didn't stop party wipes at the boss fight.

[Emerge2012]

Its not, it doesn't affect bosses, doesnt seem to stop AOE casters, doesnt stop ranged enemies outside the AOE of the storm and requires you to cast FOM on the whole party (very inconvenient). Its OP against melee players at low levels because there are no counters at that level, but when I was using it in wrath of the earth, it didn't stop party wipes at the boss fight.

Blind and disorientation (mobs just walk around inside the storm) is crazy powerful for legendary R10 and I use it every fight. You're right about freedom for the party in lower heroics but wrong about pretty much everything else.

Side note - MMO 101, casters and ranged enemies first.