My experiences trying out the different adventure packs

[Question2005]

Edit : Most people seem to be assuming that this thread is a review or that i am trying to convince people that some quests are bad. This is not a review. As stated in the thread title, these are my experiences trying out the different adventure packs. You don't have to agree with, but saying I'm wrong makes about as much sense as telling someone that "apples are great and if you don't agree you are wrong". Simply agree to disagree.

(Heroics only)

Catacombs

Mediocre xp, WAY too much backtracking, one quest has WAY too many skeletons for the reward, no good items. $10 for the starter package is a ripoff...you would have to pay me to run this again.

The Seal of Shan-To-Kor

Mediocre xp, long dungeons where you can get lost in, no good items, annoying mini wilderness area before you can even get to the quest entrance. Awful.

Tangleroot gorge

Aside from the initial time needed to get to the quest NPC...not bad. The rare encounters and such are worthless like in all wilderness areas, but after every quest you teleport back to the NPC which is outside the dungeon, which is better than the back tracking in Catacombs. No reaper mode, but decent xp and quite fast. No good items however. Quests are straight forward with minimal traps, you cant get lost or anything.

The Sharn Syndicate

You pretty much need a trapper for this pack as one of the quests has doors that you need to bash down, and going near the doors to attack them gets you one shotted by traps. Quests also have annoying roof top sequences complete with jumping puzzles. XP is okay and the ML 2 weapons are ridiculously OP. Personally, I would only run this with a trapper or for the gear.

Phiarlan Carnival

First quest had great xp but annoying back tracking segments. First objective requires back tracking, but for the latter ones I think you can have one person wait at the quest NPC to complete the objective quickly and get the next one started. Keeping the quest NPC alive is extremely difficult on higher difficulties but I was able to solo it on elite (although the quest NPC may have gotten champion status, can't remember). Rest of the quests take a VERY long time with mediocre xp. End chain rewards are potentially good...but the antique greataxe seems badly designed. It's evil outsider bane, but pretty much all evil outsiders have DR/good anyway, so you are still better off using a holy weapon than this one...and the nicked greatsword from the sharn syndicate quest is lower level and better. Would definately not run this again.

The Necropolis Part 1

Everyone told me the flagging quests are awful, so I didnt even bother trying this.

Three-Barrel Cove

Pretty much the gold standard for what quests should be. Aside from the time needed to get to the dungeon entrances, the xp/min is great. However the loot is worse than f2p quests of the same level...for some reason the end quest rewards only give low level garbage, way lower than f2p quests of the same level. Its part of a saga too, so thats even more xp or a +1 skill tome.

Delera's Tomb

Lower level quests are decent xp and some of the end chain rewards like Carnifex are good, but the higher level quests that arent part of the chain seem awful and nobody runs them. Unfortunately you need a holy weapon to hurt the ghostly skeletons which makes for annoying weapon switching. Most first lifers will run in without one and be useless in melee, so the rest of the party will have to carry them.

White Plume Mountain and Other Tales

Full of annoying mechanics, awful xp, loot is good but named items seem VERY rare (one guy told me he only got the one he wanted after 7 TRs), encounters are clearly balanced around full parties with the latest pay2win gear making it very hard to solo without a fully twinked character (and getting a party is anything but easy with the low pop). Party spent more than 10 minutes trying to figure out how to use the wands to get into the prison, and then more than 10 minutes with the stupid puzzle. It takes me less time to solo "a relic of the sovereign past" with the back tracking than "kind of a big deal", simply because the mobs are insanely tanky and there is so much running to do. You would have to pay me to re-run some of these quests.

Sorrowdusk Isle

XP would be okay if not for the backtracking...and unlike tangleroot, exiting a dungeon doesnt teleport you back to the quest NPC so you have to walk back to him all over again...the few early ones which I did were pretty much straight forward and OK, but no decent loot makes this mediocre and most people seem to skip it.

Devil Assault

Nobody runs this in heroics for a reason. Its pretty much impossible to run this on elite or reaper for the bravery bonus in heroics, and when I did it in epic to farm tokens, I did 4-5 runs and nobody in the party got more than 1 token...and lords of death was WAY faster.

The Temple of Elemental Evil

Didnt bother trying this because everyone said it was awful xp, takes forever and the items were mediocre.

Sentinels of Stormreach

Same saga as three barrel cove, quests are OK but the market one is very confusing and the final quest in the chain has hallways with "LOL ONE HIT AND YOU DIE" traps. The optional quest is almost as worse as The Pit, especially as latency causes the air jets to bug out and not push you properly. No good items. XP for quests is okay, but nowhere near as good as three barrel cove. Would really only run this for the saga bonus.

The Necropolis Part 2

Fantastic xp, one potentially useful silver flame trinket, but no good items otherwise. Tip : For the last quest in the chain, make sure that only experienced players who know how to get to the levers pick up the gears, you dont want a new player with the gears to get lost or the quest will take forever.

The Ruins of Threnal

Everyone told me that xp/items were bad so I didnt bother.

The Vault of Night

First 4 quests is great xp, but haywire foundry has some ridiculous traps. It is near impossible to dodge the flame traps with lag (you will get hit when they are not visible on your screen) and there is a ridiculous spike trap at a lever that is guaranteed to one shot you even if you pass the reflex save and have 280+ hp (unless you have evasion obviously). This basically requires you to sacrifice someone to pull the lever and die because there is NO way to avoid it unless you can disarm the trap.

I spent several hours on NA weekend prime time to try and get a party for the raids, we had two artificers, both couldnt make it past the trapped hallway and most of the party rage quitted. The trap DCs for the raids are also ridiculous, there is NO way you will pass the save unless you have a fully twinked character with multiple stat tomes and past lives. Even my paladin with a high reflex save failed the reflex save against the spike traps on a roll of a 15.

So basically run the first 4 quests, skip the raids (unless you have a OP party ready to do it with you). Named items apparently drop very rarely and only in the raid, so this is purely for xp.

Against the Slave Lords

First quest in the chain is fun, dungeon is well designed except for traps that one shot you, until you get to the second part in which spellcasters can one shot your tanks with fore missile, which allows no save and allows no resists. I had 260+ hp and got instantly one shotted, rest of the party died less than 10 seconds later. The only counter is apparently, to use the shield spell, which forces you to either put points into UMD, which usually forces you to have stat tomes or run a UMD class, or try and farm multiple items with the shield spell, which requires you to have a trapper for the korthos island quest.

Needless to say, I didnt bother after finding out there was a shield spell requirement to not get one shotted. Its a shame because the first part of the dungeon was very well done and designed, except for the mass "LOL ONE HIT AND YOU DIE XDDDD" traps, and the second part is impossible without the shield spell. And this requirement is not mentioned anywhere in the quest text or even in the wiki article.

Supposedly the items are pretty good, but you basically have to run them on elite, so most classes would need UMD and a trapper to farm it...and at that point it would be easier to just level up cannith crafting...or buy the latest expansion pack with OP gear...

The Red Fens

Decent xp and items are pretty good, however finding the path up to the ziggurat can be annoying as it blends in very well with the hill. Probably the easiest source of an artifact bonus to hit and damage. You dont need to re-flag for the quest rewards either, so farming the one you want is pretty easy. The last quest with underwater combat is pretty annoying however, and the xp bonus for fighting the demon is not worth it considering how long he takes to kill.

Dragonblood Prophecy

Great xp, dungeons are very straight forward with no annoying traps, items are pretty good.

The Restless Isles

Everyone told me this was awful so i didnt bother.

Demon Sands

Most people only seem to want to do this for An Offering of Blood and The chamber of Raiyum which offers great xp, but the Chamber of Raiyum is full of traps, collapsible floors and has a very confusing layout. It is very easy for party members to get seperated. If you know where to go though, doing all the optionals nets amazing XP. Doesnt seem to have any good items.

The Necropolis Part 3

Some very annoying mechanics in the quests, but decent xp...until you get to the tomb of the tormented which is one of the worst designed quests in the game, hands down. Couldnt get anyone to run the end quest in the chain either because of the fail conditions. I wouldnt buy this since you would only be running 3 quests really, unless you can somehow find people to do the other two.

Attack on Stormreach

People told me the mobs are super tanky and the items are bad, so I didnt bother.

Ruins of Gianthold

Great xp, except for the massive amount of running you need to do to get to the different quest locations...and its really annoying when the dungeon entrance is located on a hill and you spend 10 minutes running around trying to find a path that will get you up on that hill. Part of a saga as well for more xp. Items seem bad however.

Trials of the Archons

Decent xp/items, but clearly balaned around you having pay2win gear from the latest packs. Elite mobs in the quest have more hp than reaper mobs in older quests. Minimal traps, but very large encounter sizes with demons that all require cold iron or good damage to bypass, which is very difficult to obtain with the auction being a ghost town and the steep costs for cannith crafting.

The Devil's Gambit

People told me it has bad xp/items so I didnt bother.

Disciples of Rage

Did only a few of these quests, but they seemed pretty straight forward with minimal traps. Encounter sizes and mob hp is way too high however since its balanced around newer pay2win gear. Items seem good but also rare...which seems like the trend with newer packs, as named items drop way more often in older quests.

The Necropolis Part 4

Apparently most people only run this for the wilderness slayer xp and MAYBE a few of the quests, but avoid the raid like the plague. Probably not worth buying unless you really like farming wilderness areas.

The Vale of Twilight

This entire pack is the very definition of "not solo friendly" which is annoying when you can have a LFG up for hours without anyone joining. The quests are full of mechanics that punish solo players...theres a quest where the dungeon is pitch black and you need to carry a quest item to light the way, so if you are 2H solo you are screwed, since your hireling is too dumb to hold it for you. Theres another quest where you have to keep a squishy NPC alive while he runs in and draws aggro like crazy, and good luck doing that without a full time healer babysitting him. Not sure how relevant green steel is because the whole crafting system looks super complicated and extremely grindy to get all mats.

Running with the devils is also poorly balanced...the Ghaeles hit harder than end quest bosses in higher level quests! I was told that most people skip this quest because they are just broken. Rainbow in the dark is annoying even with a party, as everyone has to stick to the torch holder and he has to go back to the entrance to get players who enter late.

Chamber has that super annoying climb and most of the party got spread out during the climb. Even the night revels version makes fun of the climb.

Great xp for the quests in general however.

The Path of Inspiration

Tried Shipwrecked Spy and while the quest design itself was fun, keeping the quest npc alive was problematic (dumb ai, just runs in to get himself killed). The mobs were also way too tanky...I was told that this pack was intended to be "end game" before MOTU came out and it clearly shows...we did High Road after and the mobs there had less than 75% of the hp in this pack, despite being the same quest level. The bloated hp and being way more difficult than other rewards really ruins the whole pack.

The High Road of Shadows

Very nicely designed wilderness area. The plains and forest areas are easy to navigate, rather than spending a long time running around to find a mountain path (chains of flame anyone?) and are nice to look at to boot. All the dungeon entrances are easy to get to, and the quests are well designed with no/minimal traps, minimal back tracking and no annoying mechanics. This is also one of the few packs where the named loot doesn't bind to you to prevent trading them to friends/guildies and they are pretty useful. Encounters are well balanced, no crazy one shots or super tanky mobs...this pack is very well done and more quests should be designed using this pack as a base line really. XP is pretty good.

[DYWYPI]

Regarding the Raid: The Vault of Night (VoN 5)... I'm presuming you were referring to the Northern trapped corridor with eight; Control Panels, Spinning blades, and electricity surging?


[...] we had two artificers, both couldnt make it past the trapped hallway and most of the party rage quitted ...

It's likely the Artificers in the group were inexperienced with the map, and didn't fully engage their brains with VoN 5.

There are plenty of "safe spots" to stand within that Northern corridor when disabling Traps. Several times per month; I'll be in a PUG group disabling those Traps. I don't stupidly stand in those spinning blades, while either of my: Search or Disable animations are playing... I stand on completely safe ground. Knowing where the trap (box) is - that's the first step in evading it. ;-)

Or else the other members within that Raid group were 'too selfish' to be ready, to try emergency heal or Raise them (if need be). I cannot imagine you meant the Western 'trap wall', because that's even simpler to deal with. To me it sounds like the Raid group was mismanaged, disorganised and lacked in good communication skills.

[bracelet]

You are quite entitled to these opinions but I find I disagree in a lot of cases. I do completely agree about the scaling of newer packs. There are a number of promising quests that they outright ruined by overscaling the difficulty. Good thing you didn’t try the Mines of Tethyamar! But there are several older packs you dismissed way too lightly. The loot in Sands, Vale and Gianthold may be dated, although a few pieces are still serviceable. But the content itself has great XP and are still some of the most creative quests in the game. Rainbow in the Dark is, for many players, one of the best quests in the game. There are also people that love Tomb of the Tormented, but I happen to agree with you on that one.

[FlavoredSoul]

It's almost impressive how completely incorrect you are on everything.

[zehnvhex]

I like reading these because it shows how important game knowledge can end up being.

For example:


The Vault of Night

First 4 quests is great xp, but haywire foundry has some ridiculous traps...

You can completely bypass the flame traps by jumping up on the crates at the start of the room. That gold seal hireling you spent 10 bucks on? Summon her and have her open the trap lever and then dismiss after she dies. That's why she's so valuable, for stuff like that.

Figuring out how to deal with traps is a big part of DDO. Sometimes the best way isn't always the most obvious. Use hirelings to eat one-time traps. Go around, jump around, learn your timings, find the safe spot, etc...

[Elfishski]

You are quite entitled to these opinions but I find I disagree in a lot of cases. I do completely agree about the scaling of newer packs. There are a number of promising quests that they outright ruined by overscaling the difficulty. Good thing you didn’t try the Mines of Tethyamar! But there are several older packs you dismissed way too lightly. The loot in Sands, Vale and Gianthold may be dated, although a few pieces are still serviceable. But the content itself has great XP and are still some of the most creative quests in the game. Rainbow in the Dark is, for many players, one of the best quests in the game. There are also people that love Tomb of the Tormented, but I happen to agree with you on that one.

It sounded as if the OP looked more for XP/min as the entirety of quest value rather than creativity, sadly? Would love to hear more about what was fun instead!

Generally speaking, I would say that many of the quests that I found super frustrating and confusing the first time and swore I would never do again ended up being my favourites after revisiting them with a better idea of what to expect and taking them carefully. So don't be so quick to write some quests off there, and don't listen to "everyone" in ignoring some content (unless you're premium and paying for each pack - then sure, prioritise). If you're a newer player you'll still find useful items in all the old packs and you'll be better balanced against those monsters rather than the amped up HP of monsters in newer heroic content. Then there's still good stuff to find next time around.

P.s. you need hardly any UMD for Shield (put one point into it next level), wands are really cheap in the marketplace, and it's not just useful for Slavers.

[Nebless]

Would love to hear more about what was fun instead!

Was my thought too. Unfortunately the gear/XP mindset seems to be what alot of players worry about. While I enjoy leveling just as much as anyone else it's more about the fun factor for me.

[hinton]

You are quite entitled to these opinions but I find I disagree in a lot of cases. I do completely agree about the scaling of newer packs. There are a number of promising quests that they outright ruined by overscaling the difficulty. Good thing you didn’t try the Mines of Tethyamar! But there are several older packs you dismissed way too lightly. The loot in Sands, Vale and Gianthold may be dated, although a few pieces are still serviceable. But the content itself has great XP and are still some of the most creative quests in the game. Rainbow in the Dark is, for many players, one of the best quests in the game. There are also people that love Tomb of the Tormented, but I happen to agree with you on that one.


It's almost impressive how completely incorrect you are on everything.


I like reading these because it shows how important game knowledge can end up being.

For example:



You can completely bypass the flame traps by jumping up on the crates at the start of the room. That gold seal hireling you spent 10 bucks on? Summon her and have her open the trap lever and then dismiss after she dies. That's why she's so valuable, for stuff like that.

Figuring out how to deal with traps is a big part of DDO. Sometimes the best way isn't always the most obvious. Use hirelings to eat one-time traps. Go around, jump around, learn your timings, find the safe spot, etc...


It sounded as if the OP looked more for XP/min as the entirety of quest value rather than creativity, sadly? Would love to hear more about what was fun instead!

Generally speaking, I would say that many of the quests that I found super frustrating and confusing the first time and swore I would never do again ended up being my favourites after revisiting them with a better idea of what to expect and taking them carefully. So don't be so quick to write some quests off there, and don't listen to "everyone" in ignoring some content (unless you're premium and paying for each pack - then sure, prioritise). If you're a newer player you'll still find useful items in all the old packs and you'll be better balanced against those monsters rather than the amped up HP of monsters in newer heroic content. Then there's still good stuff to find next time around.

P.s. you need hardly any UMD for Shield (put one point into it next level), wands are really cheap in the marketplace, and it's not just useful for Slavers.


Guess almost everything I would say has been said. I run over 90% of the content each TR. I love almost all of it. A few and I don't name them because I don't want my opinion to make others not try them are frustrating and a royal PITA.

But my father always said everyone is entitled to their own opinion no mater how stupid it may be.
Yours mine who can say.

[Chai]

OP what you said about 3bc is kind of ironic since that zone was avoided like the plague for like 6 years until it was revamped.

[boredGamer]

Question - question - why do you even play this game ? You clearly don't enjoy it.

You hated some of my favorite quests in the game. There is nothing else to offer.

[AlcoArgo]

TL/DR Version:

Any quest that I can't do easily for a ton of XP is horrible. I don't know quests and have to learn as I go and I don't like learning. I want to solo everything and don't know why DDO won't let me. Also, I can't survive traps so all traps are bad.

[glmfw1]

(Heroics only)

Catacombs

Mediocre xp, WAY too much backtracking, one quest has WAY too many skeletons for the reward, no good items. $10 for the starter package is a ripoff...you would have to pay me to run this again.
Why is backtracking such an issue? Linear questing might be faster, but it ends up being very boring. Real life is rarely linear, old-style D&D quests rarely had completely linear dungeons so why should DDO? Talking to someone to progress things and further the story makes sense, if you pay attention to what they say. Much more meaningful than just going straight on to the next quest for no apparent reason - also prepares you for the dungeon layout for the last-but-one quest. Good items are in the eye of the Beholder, and Lynnabel has been working through a lot of the packs updating older loot to modern standards (doing it all at once would make for very new content-/new item-light updates).


The Seal of Shan-To-Kor
Mediocre xp, long dungeons where you can get lost in, no good items, annoying mini wilderness area before you can even get to the quest entrance. Awful.
All 3 quests in the Shan-to-Kor chain are fairly linear in their nature, albeit with side corridors to check down). If you were annoyed by the backtracking in Catacombs, the fairly straight-on-to-the-next-bit nature of Shan-to-Kor should have been a positive. The mini-wilderness is a pretty short run with one group of kobolds on the path to the chain, making a handful of extra XP every run.

Tangleroot gorge

Aside from the initial time needed to get to the quest NPC...not bad. The rare encounters and such are worthless like in all wilderness areas, but after every quest you teleport back to the NPC which is outside the dungeon, which is better than the back tracking in Catacombs. No reaper mode, but decent xp and quite fast. No good items however. Quests are straight forward with minimal traps, you cant get lost or anything.
What is worthless about rare encounters? If you run wilderness explorers when you reach the minimum level for access (faster in a group and often more monsters, so higher slayer counts), the XP goes a long way towards the next level without taking much time (and in this case, you then have the teleport NPC lined up ready for running the quests).


The Sharn Syndicate

You pretty much need a trapper for this pack as one of the quests has doors that you need to bash down, and going near the doors to attack them gets you one shotted by traps. Quests also have annoying roof top sequences complete with jumping puzzles. XP is okay and the ML 2 weapons are ridiculously OP. Personally, I would only run this with a trapper or for the gear.
This is one pack where finding a rogue/arti to group with or hiring a gold seal rogue is almost essential. The level-draining caster tends to be more of an issue than climbing up the boxes to cross the rooftops and the roofs themselves allow for ranging some of the enemies (picking them off one at a time, thinning the crowd) if difficulty is a little much for the group's capabilities.


Phiarlan Carnival

First quest had great xp but annoying back tracking segments. First objective requires back tracking, but for the latter ones I think you can have one person wait at the quest NPC to complete the objective quickly and get the next one started. Keeping the quest NPC alive is extremely difficult on higher difficulties but I was able to solo it on elite (although the quest NPC may have gotten champion status, can't remember). Rest of the quests take a VERY long time with mediocre xp. End chain rewards are potentially good...but the antique greataxe seems badly designed. It's evil outsider bane, but pretty much all evil outsiders have DR/good anyway, so you are still better off using a holy weapon than this one...and the nicked greatsword from the sharn syndicate quest is lower level and better. Would definately not run this again.
Great for collectables, great NPC dialog, keeping Brawnpits alive takes thought, but can easily be done with a bit of thinking (and knowledge of monster abilities). I'm surprised you think the Snitch takes a VERY long time, when this wasn't a complaint about A Small Problem.

The Necropolis Part 1

Everyone told me the flagging quests are awful, so I didnt even bother trying this.
Good collectable drops, varied monsters, various optional monsters. One quest does require 4 characters (players or hirelings) but that's the most "awful" bit about them.


Three-Barrel Cove

Pretty much the gold standard for what quests should be. Aside from the time needed to get to the dungeon entrances, the xp/min is great. However the loot is worse than f2p quests of the same level...for some reason the end quest rewards only give low level garbage, way lower than f2p quests of the same level. Its part of a saga too, so thats even more xp or a +1 skill tome.
3BC is pretty much the Nicked Weapons of quest XP. A lot more XP than expected for the level of the quests and the effort required. It's pirates though, so it's basically us stealing their XP as our booty :) . The 3BC corsairs set is pretty cool to use. Scoundrel's weapons do higher damage than normal weapons of the same type (e.g. d10 rather than d8 on the longsword).


Delera's Tomb

Lower level quests are decent xp and some of the end chain rewards like Carnifex are good, but the higher level quests that arent part of the chain seem awful and nobody runs them. Unfortunately you need a holy weapon to hurt the ghostly skeletons which makes for annoying weapon switching. Most first lifers will run in without one and be useless in melee, so the rest of the party will have to carry them.
Thankfully the NPC who offers the quest says "here, take this weapon, you will need it to hit the monsters inside it, otherwise you will be useless" so everyone is forewarned. Weapon switching may be necessary, but if you put your holy weapon next to your regular weapon on a hotbar, it's pretty easy to do.


White Plume Mountain and Other Tales

Full of annoying mechanics, awful xp, loot is good but named items seem VERY rare (one guy told me he only got the one he wanted after 7 TRs), encounters are clearly balanced around full parties with the latest pay2win gear making it very hard to solo without a fully twinked character (and getting a party is anything but easy with the low pop). Party spent more than 10 minutes trying to figure out how to use the wands to get into the prison, and then more than 10 minutes with the stupid puzzle. It takes me less time to solo "a relic of the sovereign past" with the back tracking than "kind of a big deal", simply because the mobs are insanely tanky and there is so much running to do. You would have to pay me to re-run some of these quests.
The wands are annoying until you have worked out how they work. Other than that, the mechanics in the quests make them varied, rather than just slash and kill fests. The puzzles in the prison have a very simple solution mechanic, similar to other puzzles elsewhere in the game. Once you work that out, the rooftop one is easy and the underground one just takes careful positioning when you jump. For a change in a quest, the "insane tankiness" is actually relevant... rather than inflated stats due to inflated stats (as found in some more recent updates), these guys have inflated stats due to what's going on in the quest!


I would give feedback on more... but someone just offered me a glass of wine :)

[hinton]

Here is my advise. Run all content. If you have trouble look for help the wiki is good but for older stuff the best still is
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/122192-The-Lost-Quest-Guide
Then decide what you like and don't. After that every life's try some of the stuff on your non like list. your experience will change over time. DDO is not a fast game look at all the 10+ year people still loving it not just hanging around.

[Cantor]

You are quite entitled to these opinions but I find I disagree in a lot of cases. I do completely agree about the scaling of newer packs. There are a number of promising quests that they outright ruined by overscaling the difficulty. Good thing you didn’t try the Mines of Tethyamar! But there are several older packs you dismissed way too lightly. The loot in Sands, Vale and Gianthold may be dated, although a few pieces are still serviceable. But the content itself has great XP and are still some of the most creative quests in the game. Rainbow in the Dark is, for many players, one of the best quests in the game. There are also people that love Tomb of the Tormented, but I happen to agree with you on that one.

Pretty much, the OP is very wrong on several points.

[st0rmcr0vv]

I was going to finish reading your "review" but everyone told me the xp was bad so I didn't bother. :)

[Nebless]

Thankfully the NPC who offers the quest says "here, take this weapon, you will need it to hit the monsters inside it, otherwise you will be useless" so everyone is forewarned. Weapon switching may be necessary, but if you put your holy weapon next to your regular weapon on a hotbar, it's pretty easy to do.

Just bought Delera's Tomb and ran the first quest. The Quest giver doesn't say anything about weapons, just gives you the first quest. There's a Silver Flame NPC by the gates and when you talk to him he gives you a run down on how to fight the different monsters (just like you got running Heydon's Rest in Korthos: 'this is a slashing weapon good against ...'). His last comment is 'Flame Weapons work against all .... usually'.

At no point are you given a Holy weapon, although putting one in one of the chests inside the quest would be a nice touch. I just used normal weapons on all the monsters and didn't have too hard a time so having a Holy weapon doesn't seem to be mandatory.

[Krelar]

Just bought Delera's Tomb and ran the first quest. The Quest giver doesn't say anything about weapons, just gives you the first quest. There's a Silver Flame NPC by the gates and when you talk to him he gives you a run down on how to fight the different monsters (just like you got running Heydon's Rest in Korthos: 'this is a slashing weapon good against ...'). His last comment is 'Flame Weapons work against all .... usually'.

At no point are you given a Holy weapon, although putting one in one of the chests inside the quest would be a nice touch. I just used normal weapons on all the monsters and didn't have too hard a time so having a Holy weapon doesn't seem to be mandatory.

You're given the weapon before the 2nd quest. You don't need it in the first quest except to do the optional after the quest is already finished.

[C-Dog]

It's almost impressive how completely incorrect you are on everything.
Not a very politik way of saying it, but yeah, pretty much.


Question2005


Join Date

Sep 2018
How long have you bee playing? How many time have you run these packs? Have you given any effort to "learning" them?

[Nebless]

You're given the weapon before the 2nd quest. You don't need it in the first quest except to do the optional after the quest is already finished.

Nice to know. Still didn't need it to kill the after end optional's, the ghost one's died just like the normal one's did.

[MasterKernel]

The Seal of Shan-To-Kor
Mediocre xp, long dungeons where you can get lost in, no good items, annoying mini wilderness area before you can even get to the quest entrance. Awful.



Phiarlan Carnival
First quest had great xp but annoying back tracking segments. First objective requires back tracking, but for the latter ones I think you can have one person wait at the quest NPC to complete the objective quickly and get the next one started. Keeping the quest NPC alive is extremely difficult on higher difficulties but I was able to solo it on elite (although the quest NPC may have gotten champion status, can't remember). Rest of the quests take a VERY long time with mediocre xp. End chain rewards are potentially good...but the antique greataxe seems badly designed. It's evil outsider bane, but pretty much all evil outsiders have DR/good anyway, so you are still better off using a holy weapon than this one...and the nicked greatsword from the sharn syndicate quest is lower level and better. Would definately not run this again.

These 2 are among the best quests the game can offer. Why play at all, if you don't enjoy it ?


Three-Barrel Cove
Pretty much the gold standard for what quests should be. Aside from the time needed to get to the dungeon entrances, the xp/min is great. However the loot is worse than f2p quests of the same level...for some reason the end quest rewards only give low level garbage, way lower than f2p quests of the same level. Its part of a saga too, so thats even more xp or a +1 skill tome.

Really ? The 'gold standard' ?! The pure linear, boring run-forward-kill-everything kind of quests ?
Now, tell us : why do you come to play an RPG game in the first place when you are clearly demand for the Hack & Slash (action) RPG ? Go and play Diablo 3 or something - you'll get what you want ! Why play DDO ?


The Vault of Night
First 4 quests is great xp, but haywire foundry has some ridiculous traps. It is near impossible to dodge the flame traps with lag (you will get hit when they are not visible on your screen) and there is a ridiculous spike trap at a lever that is guaranteed to one shot you even if you pass the reflex save and have 280+ hp (unless you have evasion obviously). This basically requires you to sacrifice someone to pull the lever and die because there is NO way to avoid it unless you can disarm the trap.

I spent several hours on NA weekend prime time to try and get a party for the raids, we had two artificers, both couldnt make it past the trapped hallway and most of the party rage quitted. The trap DCs for the raids are also ridiculous, there is NO way you will pass the save unless you have a fully twinked character with multiple stat tomes and past lives. Even my paladin with a high reflex save failed the reflex save against the spike traps on a roll of a 15.

So basically run the first 4 quests, skip the raids (unless you have a OP party ready to do it with you). Named items apparently drop very rarely and only in the raid, so this is purely for xp.

Nobody runs VON5 on Heroics, yes. :-( People run it on Epic as on of the the dailies. :-D
But, anyway, Heroic/Epic VON5 and Heroic TS are the easiest raids in the whole game. You have to get the whole party of first-timers to fail any of them ! How could you manage to do that ?!


The Restless Isles
Everyone told me this was awful so i didnt bother.

Everyone lies about this pack.
Most people are lazy and do not want to run to the quests entrances in this one. Te quests themselves are great, but you don't care about it, do you ? All you need (is Diablo 3) are XP and loot. :-\


Attack on Stormreach
People told me the mobs are super tanky and the items are bad, so I didnt bother.

Another pack from the best ones. Well, we know already, you don't need the quests. Have I asked, why do you play DDO ?


The Devil's Gambit
People told me it has bad xp/items so I didnt bother.

People lied.


You definitely choose the wrong game. So, why bother at all ?
Also, stop with all the 'pay2win' thingy. There is NOTHING to win in DDO, therefore you can't pay for it !

[pegrad]

(Heroics only)

Catacombs

Mediocre xp, WAY too much backtracking, one quest has WAY too many skeletons for the reward, no good items. $10 for the starter package is a ripoff...you would have to pay me to run this again.

The Seal of Shan-To-Kor

Mediocre xp, long dungeons where you can get lost in, no good items, annoying mini wilderness area before you can even get to the quest entrance. Awful.

Tangleroot gorge

Aside from the initial time needed to get to the quest NPC...not bad. The rare encounters and such are worthless like in all wilderness areas, but after every quest you teleport back to the NPC which is outside the dungeon, which is better than the back tracking in Catacombs. No reaper mode, but decent xp and quite fast. No good items however. Quests are straight forward with minimal traps, you cant get lost or anything.

The Sharn Syndicate

You pretty much need a trapper for this pack as one of the quests has doors that you need to bash down, and going near the doors to attack them gets you one shotted by traps. Quests also have annoying roof top sequences complete with jumping puzzles. XP is okay and the ML 2 weapons are ridiculously OP. Personally, I would only run this with a trapper or for the gear.

Phiarlan Carnival

First quest had great xp but annoying back tracking segments. First objective requires back tracking, but for the latter ones I think you can have one person wait at the quest NPC to complete the objective quickly and get the next one started. Keeping the quest NPC alive is extremely difficult on higher difficulties but I was able to solo it on elite (although the quest NPC may have gotten champion status, can't remember). Rest of the quests take a VERY long time with mediocre xp. End chain rewards are potentially good...but the antique greataxe seems badly designed. It's evil outsider bane, but pretty much all evil outsiders have DR/good anyway, so you are still better off using a holy weapon than this one...and the nicked greatsword from the sharn syndicate quest is lower level and better. Would definately not run this again.

The Necropolis Part 1

Everyone told me the flagging quests are awful, so I didnt even bother trying this.

Three-Barrel Cove

Pretty much the gold standard for what quests should be. Aside from the time needed to get to the dungeon entrances, the xp/min is great. However the loot is worse than f2p quests of the same level...for some reason the end quest rewards only give low level garbage, way lower than f2p quests of the same level. Its part of a saga too, so thats even more xp or a +1 skill tome.

Delera's Tomb

Lower level quests are decent xp and some of the end chain rewards like Carnifex are good, but the higher level quests that arent part of the chain seem awful and nobody runs them. Unfortunately you need a holy weapon to hurt the ghostly skeletons which makes for annoying weapon switching. Most first lifers will run in without one and be useless in melee, so the rest of the party will have to carry them.

White Plume Mountain and Other Tales

Full of annoying mechanics, awful xp, loot is good but named items seem VERY rare (one guy told me he only got the one he wanted after 7 TRs), encounters are clearly balanced around full parties with the latest pay2win gear making it very hard to solo without a fully twinked character (and getting a party is anything but easy with the low pop). Party spent more than 10 minutes trying to figure out how to use the wands to get into the prison, and then more than 10 minutes with the stupid puzzle. It takes me less time to solo "a relic of the sovereign past" with the back tracking than "kind of a big deal", simply because the mobs are insanely tanky and there is so much running to do. You would have to pay me to re-run some of these quests.

Sorrowdusk Isle

XP would be okay if not for the backtracking...and unlike tangleroot, exiting a dungeon doesnt teleport you back to the quest NPC so you have to walk back to him all over again...the few early ones which I did were pretty much straight forward and OK, but no decent loot makes this mediocre and most people seem to skip it.

Devil Assault

Nobody runs this in heroics for a reason. Its pretty much impossible to run this on elite or reaper for the bravery bonus in heroics, and when I did it in epic to farm tokens, I did 4-5 runs and nobody in the party got more than 1 token...and lords of death was WAY faster.

The Temple of Elemental Evil

Didnt bother trying this because everyone said it was awful xp, takes forever and the items were mediocre.

Sentinels of Stormreach

Same saga as three barrel cove, quests are OK but the market one is very confusing and the final quest in the chain has hallways with "LOL ONE HIT AND YOU DIE" traps. The optional quest is almost as worse as The Pit, especially as latency causes the air jets to bug out and not push you properly. No good items. XP for quests is okay, but nowhere near as good as three barrel cove. Would really only run this for the saga bonus.

The Necropolis Part 2

Fantastic xp, one potentially useful silver flame trinket, but no good items otherwise. Tip : For the last quest in the chain, make sure that only experienced players who know how to get to the levers pick up the gears, you dont want a new player with the gears to get lost or the quest will take forever.

The Ruins of Threnal

Everyone told me that xp/items were bad so I didnt bother.

The Vault of Night

First 4 quests is great xp, but haywire foundry has some ridiculous traps. It is near impossible to dodge the flame traps with lag (you will get hit when they are not visible on your screen) and there is a ridiculous spike trap at a lever that is guaranteed to one shot you even if you pass the reflex save and have 280+ hp (unless you have evasion obviously). This basically requires you to sacrifice someone to pull the lever and die because there is NO way to avoid it unless you can disarm the trap.

I spent several hours on NA weekend prime time to try and get a party for the raids, we had two artificers, both couldnt make it past the trapped hallway and most of the party rage quitted. The trap DCs for the raids are also ridiculous, there is NO way you will pass the save unless you have a fully twinked character with multiple stat tomes and past lives. Even my paladin with a high reflex save failed the reflex save against the spike traps on a roll of a 15.

So basically run the first 4 quests, skip the raids (unless you have a OP party ready to do it with you). Named items apparently drop very rarely and only in the raid, so this is purely for xp.

Against the Slave Lords

First quest in the chain is fun, dungeon is well designed except for traps that one shot you, until you get to the second part in which spellcasters can one shot your tanks with fore missile, which allows no save and allows no resists. I had 260+ hp and got instantly one shotted, rest of the party died less than 10 seconds later. The only counter is apparently, to use the shield spell, which forces you to either put points into UMD, which usually forces you to have stat tomes or run a UMD class, or try and farm multiple items with the shield spell, which requires you to have a trapper for the korthos island quest.

Needless to say, I didnt bother after finding out there was a shield spell requirement to not get one shotted. Its a shame because the first part of the dungeon was very well done and designed, except for the mass "LOL ONE HIT AND YOU DIE XDDDD" traps, and the second part is impossible without the shield spell. And this requirement is not mentioned anywhere in the quest text or even in the wiki article.

Supposedly the items are pretty good, but you basically have to run them on elite, so most classes would need UMD and a trapper to farm it...and at that point it would be easier to just level up cannith crafting...or buy the latest expansion pack with OP gear...

The Red Fens

Decent xp and items are pretty good, however finding the path up to the ziggurat can be annoying as it blends in very well with the hill. Probably the easiest source of an artifact bonus to hit and damage. You dont need to re-flag for the quest rewards either, so farming the one you want is pretty easy. The last quest with underwater combat is pretty annoying however, and the xp bonus for fighting the demon is not worth it considering how long he takes to kill.

Dragonblood Prophecy

Great xp, dungeons are very straight forward with no annoying traps, items are pretty good.

The Restless Isles

Everyone told me this was awful so i didnt bother.

Demon Sands

Most people only seem to want to do this for An Offering of Blood and The chamber of Raiyum which offers great xp, but the Chamber of Raiyum is full of traps, collapsible floors and has a very confusing layout. It is very easy for party members to get seperated. If you know where to go though, doing all the optionals nets amazing XP. Doesnt seem to have any good items.

The Necropolis Part 3

Some very annoying mechanics in the quests, but decent xp...until you get to the tomb of the tormented which is one of the worst designed quests in the game, hands down. Couldnt get anyone to run the end quest in the chain either because of the fail conditions. I wouldnt buy this since you would only be running 3 quests really, unless you can somehow find people to do the other two.

Attack on Stormreach

People told me the mobs are super tanky and the items are bad, so I didnt bother.

Ruins of Gianthold

Great xp, except for the massive amount of running you need to do to get to the different quest locations...and its really annoying when the dungeon entrance is located on a hill and you spend 10 minutes running around trying to find a path that will get you up on that hill. Part of a saga as well for more xp. Items seem bad however.

Trials of the Archons

Decent xp/items, but clearly balaned around you having pay2win gear from the latest packs. Elite mobs in the quest have more hp than reaper mobs in older quests. Minimal traps, but very large encounter sizes with demons that all require cold iron or good damage to bypass, which is very difficult to obtain with the auction being a ghost town and the steep costs for cannith crafting.

The Devil's Gambit

People told me it has bad xp/items so I didnt bother.

Disciples of Rage

Did only a few of these quests, but they seemed pretty straight forward with minimal traps. Encounter sizes and mob hp is way too high however since its balanced around newer pay2win gear. Items seem good but also rare...which seems like the trend with newer packs, as named items drop way more often in older quests.

The Necropolis Part 4

Apparently most people only run this for the wilderness slayer xp and MAYBE a few of the quests, but avoid the raid like the plague. Probably not worth buying unless you really like farming wilderness areas.

The Vale of Twilight

This entire pack is the very definition of "not solo friendly" which is annoying when you can have a LFG up for hours without anyone joining. The quests are full of mechanics that punish solo players...theres a quest where the dungeon is pitch black and you need to carry a quest item to light the way, so if you are 2H solo you are screwed, since your hireling is too dumb to hold it for you. Theres another quest where you have to keep a squishy NPC alive while he runs in and draws aggro like crazy, and good luck doing that without a full time healer babysitting him. Not sure how relevant green steel is because the whole crafting system looks super complicated and extremely grindy to get all mats. Great xp however.

are you by chance that australian dude from the reddit? You know, the one who complains exclusively and extensively about each and every game he starts (and who is also overwhelmed by operating standard razors and managing basic living conditions)?

[Sunnie]

are you by chance that australian dude from the reddit? You know, the one who complains exclusively and extensively about each and every game he starts (and who is also overwhelmed by operating standard razors and managing basic living conditions)?
I'll go get the fire extinguisher.

[byzantinebob]

It just goes to show how different people want different things in a game. I love trapping. It adds XP and mixes things up. You seem to hate everything about traps. I don't care about XP/minute or quality of loot compared to the fun of a quest. You seem to define quests as needing good XP/min or loot to even be fun. You do you, but just remember that you don't speak for all of us.

[hinton]

It just goes to show how different people want different things in a game. I love trapping. It adds XP and mixes things up. You seem to hate everything about traps. I don't care about XP/minute or quality of loot compared to the fun of a quest. You seem to define quests as needing good XP/min or loot to even be fun. You do you, but just remember that you don't speak for all of us.

Change all of us to just us. Almost anyone that has played this game for any length of time has a way different attitude then the OP.

[C-Dog]

...You seem to hate everything about traps. I don't care about XP/minute or quality of loot compared to the fun of a quest...
That's one of the problems w/ the OP - they are badly mistaken in several of their assessments re loot, xp and traps. And by "mistaken", I mean "a significant majority seem to disagree", at least according to every forum article I've read, and also by my own statistically insignificant assessment. :cool:

[Nonesuch2008]

Everyone told me the flagging quests are awful, so I didnt even bother trying this.

Didnt bother trying this because everyone said it was awful xp, takes forever and the items were mediocre.

Everyone told me that xp/items were bad so I didnt bother.

Everyone told me this was awful so i didnt bother.

People told me the mobs are super tanky and the items are bad, so I didnt bother.

People told me it has bad xp/items so I didnt bother.

It might be just me, but I can't give a lot of credence to a review which is filled with external influences that made you bypass content & doesn't reflect a true independent bias. If you play just for hassle-free loot and xp, that is your choice, but things that conflict with that play style do not invalidate the experience or lessen the enjoyment for others like myself.



The rare encounters and such are worthless like in all wilderness areas...

Anyone that utilizes the Monster Manuals knows the value of wilderness rares. They are by no means necessary, but they do add some nice flavor to the game.

[Question2005]

Regarding the Raid: The Vault of Night (VoN 5)... I'm presuming you were referring to the Northern trapped corridor with eight; Control Panels, Spinning blades, and electricity surging?



It's likely the Artificers in the group were inexperienced with the map, and didn't fully engage their brains with VoN 5.

There are plenty of "safe spots" to stand within that Northern corridor when disabling Traps. Several times per month; I'll be in a PUG group disabling those Traps. I don't stupidly stand in those spinning blades, while either of my: Search or Disable animations are playing... I stand on completely safe ground. Knowing where the trap (box) is - that's the first step in evading it. ;-)

Or else the other members within that Raid group were 'too selfish' to be ready, to try emergency heal or Raise them (if need be). I cannot imagine you meant the Western 'trap wall', because that's even simpler to deal with. To me it sounds like the Raid group was mismanaged, disorganised and lacked in good communication skills.

One of the artificers had run the raid multiple times and he was taking the lead. He couldnt find any safe spots and were dying to the spike traps just past the electrical field. He couldnt get past the spikes at all to reach the control boxes.

He died like 10 times then gave up and rage quitted. Then people started quitting too.

A druid made it past pretty easily but he was uber twinked and had insane levels of HP. Cant remember if he got hit or not.

Asked around afterwards and people told me that people usually skip the vault of night raids and only do it at epic level unless they already have a well geared group ready before hand.

[Question2005]

You are quite entitled to these opinions but I find I disagree in a lot of cases. I do completely agree about the scaling of newer packs. There are a number of promising quests that they outright ruined by overscaling the difficulty. Good thing you didn’t try the Mines of Tethyamar! But there are several older packs you dismissed way too lightly. The loot in Sands, Vale and Gianthold may be dated, although a few pieces are still serviceable. But the content itself has great XP and are still some of the most creative quests in the game. Rainbow in the Dark is, for many players, one of the best quests in the game. There are also people that love Tomb of the Tormented, but I happen to agree with you on that one.

What loot are you referring to exactly?

[Question2005]

I like reading these because it shows how important game knowledge can end up being.

For example:



You can completely bypass the flame traps by jumping up on the crates at the start of the room. That gold seal hireling you spent 10 bucks on? Summon her and have her open the trap lever and then dismiss after she dies. That's why she's so valuable, for stuff like that.

Figuring out how to deal with traps is a big part of DDO. Sometimes the best way isn't always the most obvious. Use hirelings to eat one-time traps. Go around, jump around, learn your timings, find the safe spot, etc...

I asked on discord and in guid chat for advice on the flame traps. Nobody mentioned crates at all and the only advice i got was "dont run it on elite" and "try to tank it".

And yes...you could get a hireling to sucide on the lever, but that is poor design. Its literally a trap that can only be avoided by suciding a hireling, a trapper or being ridiculously twinked to the point where no mobs in the quest can touch you. If you had ever played the pnp, you would understand the problem with this.

It is not good design to have traps in a quest that are like 10x more dangerous than the BOSS. This wouldnt be such a big problem if getting a trapper was easy, but having a trapper (or healer) in the party is the exception, not the rule. ESPECIALLY if you cannot play at NA peak times.

[Question2005]

It sounded as if the OP looked more for XP/min as the entirety of quest value rather than creativity, sadly? Would love to hear more about what was fun instead!

Generally speaking, I would say that many of the quests that I found super frustrating and confusing the first time and swore I would never do again ended up being my favourites after revisiting them with a better idea of what to expect and taking them carefully. So don't be so quick to write some quests off there, and don't listen to "everyone" in ignoring some content (unless you're premium and paying for each pack - then sure, prioritise). If you're a newer player you'll still find useful items in all the old packs and you'll be better balanced against those monsters rather than the amped up HP of monsters in newer heroic content. Then there's still good stuff to find next time around.

P.s. you need hardly any UMD for Shield (put one point into it next level), wands are really cheap in the marketplace, and it's not just useful for Slavers.

Not really, tangleroot was fun because :

-Fairly linear (cant get lost, just explore every side room and you will find the quest objectives quickly)

-Encounters are balanced

-Minimal "LOL I ONE SHOT YOU XDDDD" traps

Things that I think really make a quest unfun :

-Long and confusing layouts where the party can get lost easily, especially if they are not familiar with the quest or are not reading a guide while doing it. I like to explore a dungeon, sure, but some dungeons are really annoying to do that if you dont know exactly where to go and are just trying to figure things out on your own without reading a guide.

-Traps that are very hard to dodge with non-NA latency, especially ones that activate with no warning and just one shot you. You basically have to know where they are before hand or you are screwed, unless you have a trapper. Which is hard to get for reasons that I already explained above.

-Super tanky mobs that take forever to kill, AND where the rewards are not appropriate for the difficulty of the encounter. Especially if the mobs themselves pose no threat to me (i can tank 20+ without even trying) and just have bloated HP to make them take longer to kill. Its like putting a wall with 10m hp that the players have to kill...the wall does no damage (its just a wall) but the players need to spend time bashing it down. Its just lazy design, obviously designing fun and challenging encounters are harder than "yea lets just give these mobs lots of hp to slow players down".

-Anything in the quest that requires something very specific, like a particular class, a particular number of players or stat checks to even do. Again, not a problem if you could easily get a balanced party, but getting a party alone is hard, let alone a balanced one.

-Annoying mechanics like "hey, someone has to carry this torch and everyone has to stay near him or get lost, btw you have to back track to guide the players who enter the quest late, have fun!" or "you have to keep this squishy NPC alive even though he is a moron and wont even stay still for you to heal him"

-Pointless backtracking (catacombs, sorrowdusk isle, etc) that doesnt add anything at all

[Question2005]

Was my thought too. Unfortunately the gear/XP mindset seems to be what alot of players worry about. While I enjoy leveling just as much as anyone else it's more about the fun factor for me.

I did list the packs i found fun (didnt include the f2p quests). Three barrel cove, tangleroot gorge, dragonblood prophecy, etc. A lot of the f2p quests like dreams of insanity are fun too. Good intentions would be absolutely amazing if not for the bloated hp (even with 4 players, some of which were very well geared, it took a long time to kill all those tanky constructs). Tower of frost would be good if if it was upgraded to a long or very long rating and the xp rewards scaled accordingly...there is NO way that this is a medium length quest...

[simo0208]

Completely wrong on so many levels.

[Question2005]

Here is my advise. Run all content. If you have trouble look for help the wiki is good but for older stuff the best still is
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/122192-The-Lost-Quest-Guide
Then decide what you like and don't. After that every life's try some of the stuff on your non like list. your experience will change over time. DDO is not a fast game look at all the 10+ year people still loving it not just hanging around.

I did and it was a huge mistake. I would never have run the pit if i had known what it was like for example.

Im not trying to convince people what packs are good or whatever, this isnt even a review, its my own personal experiences running the quests. I dont get why people are so offended because i didnt like their favourite quest. Its like someone saying they dont like apples then being told they are wrong and apples are delicious. Some people here dont respect other people's opinions apparently.

[Question2005]

Not a very politik way of saying it, but yeah, pretty much.


How long have you bee playing? How many time have you run these packs? Have you given any effort to "learning" them?

Telling someone that their experience is "wrong" is quite rude and frankly, doesnt make sense.

"I didnt like the pasta at that dinner"

"You are wrong. How long have you been eating pasta? Did you put any effort into trying to eat it?"

???

If you dont share the same opinion, thats fine...its not as if im trying to convince people that a quest is good or bad in the first place.

[Question2005]

It just goes to show how different people want different things in a game. I love trapping. It adds XP and mixes things up. You seem to hate everything about traps. I don't care about XP/minute or quality of loot compared to the fun of a quest. You seem to define quests as needing good XP/min or loot to even be fun. You do you, but just remember that you don't speak for all of us.

Trapping is fine when you have a trapper or you know exactly where every trap is and have no lag issues that make it hard to dodge them. Or the traps are visible, do not one shot you and can be dodged even if you have lag.

But way too many quests have traps that are basically "unless you read a guide and know where it is, you die instantly". And then newer quests hve random traps precisely to pevent you from dodging them because you know it will be there. Again...not a problem if you have a trapper in the party...but having one is the exception, not the rule.

Plenty of ways to make traps challenging rather than having them one shot you. For example, instead of having a trap that one shots the player, have one that makes things difficult for the player (by knocking them down or something) while an ambush is sprung. If players trigger the trap and the ambush, they still have a chance of recovering other than "you die instantly LOL".

I mean...just look at pnp, DMs that frequently use instant kill traps quickly find they cant get anyone to play with them for a reason. And even stuff like the tomb of horrors requires you to do something like stick your hand into the mouth of a statue...in a tomb full of traps...and getting a trapper is obviously WAY easier than in a MMORPG...the devs should really sit down and read the dungeon master's guide that explains how to make challenging encounters other than simply increasing hp/pack size and making instant kill traps that players with lag have trouble dodging.

I mean i was trying to do lords of dust earlier and i dont know if its a bug or lag but i was getting hit by the blade traps at the stairs...AT THE TOP OF THE STAIRS...before i had even gone down...and the blade traps obviously dont extend that far. How do i know that? Because i summoned my hireling to stand at the top of the stairs, right ontop of my soul stone, and he didnt take any damage at all, even though he was standing in the exact same spot that i was. The devs clearly didnt stop to consider the effects of lag at all when designing some of these traps.

Go onto any D&D related forum, even video game adaptations like neverwinter nights online, and ask them whether instant kill traps that pretty much require you to have a trapper or have prior knowledge of where they are + no lag to dodge is good design and almost everyone will tell you "no". Just try it.

[Question2005]

It might be just me, but I can't give a lot of credence to a review which is filled with external influences that made you bypass content & doesn't reflect a true independent bias. If you play just for hassle-free loot and xp, that is your choice, but things that conflict with that play style do not invalidate the experience or lessen the enjoyment for others like myself.



Anyone that utilizes the Monster Manuals knows the value of wilderness rares. They are by no means necessary, but they do add some nice flavor to the game.

I never stated it was a review. The title of the thread says "experiences". You simply assumed it was a review.

[boredGamer]

But way too many quests have traps that are basically "unless you read a guide and know where it is, you die instantly". And then newer quests hve random traps precisely to pevent you from dodging them because you know it will be there. Again...not a problem if you have a trapper in the party...but having one is the exception, not the rule.


I know it's been suggested, and I know you don't care to listen to anyone, but if you're not on elite+, traps won't kill you instantly.

You can straight up buy rogue hirelings. You could also play one. Rogue splashes work on basically every class.


Look - you don't seem to want to learn, don't seem to want to be challenged, don't seem to actually really like any of the quests. As I said before, this game doesn't seem like the game for you. That's fine.


I liked this game from literally the first quest I stepped into in 2007. I love most quests - the pit? One of the best. Quests that challenge you on where to go, how to solve, how to jump, how to kill, how to puzzle, how to build (I planned for my first solo heroic r1 slavers for a while, didn't complete it until I was level 13, and was stoked when I did. Obviously it's much easier these days)


So, move on man. Glad you tried it out.

[bracelet]

What loot are you referring to exactly?

Bear in mind I said serviceable, not best in slot. With that said:

Sands

The Torc is a very nice item, I still use that situationally.
The non-epic Ring of Spell Storing can be quite useful to a newer player.
The epic Wolf Whistle is very very nice. People still try to make that one.
The epic Dusk Heart is extremely nice.
There are various melee and ranged weapons which are good.

Gianthold

The Ghost Waking Cloak is really good. I am surprised more people don't use it. DR10 in epics is still valuable for people doing less than EE.
I like the Ring of the Djinn for lightning reduction.
I love the heroic elite Aquatic Bracers. I look for these every life. They sell for a bucket full of shards in the ASAH.
The Jeweled Cloak is really useful in certain quests.

Vale

I have two pieces of Greensteel that I equip every heroic life:
I have a 45 HP 100% Fort "Min II" pair of goggles that go on at 15 and stay on (I could put them on at 11 but it would break a set to do so). There are only a tiny handful of places you can get these HP, and none of them come close to 45.
The other item is quite literally one of the most valuable things I have. I don't want to describe it since the usual suspects would clamor to nerf it.

There are other items from the two quests in Meridia that I have used on some melee lives, but have not done so in a while. That doesn't mean they aren't useful.

So there you are. And the list is not at all exhaustive. I only described some of the things that I find useful.

[Singular]

from the point of view of a new player.

Everyone else is expressing the POVs of experienced players who know the ins and outs of these quests.

But they were (mostly) designed when the server populations were higher, which meant that there was more teaching going on, more passing on the quirks of each quest to new players. With the populations so low and lfms way down, it's harder for new players to learn the quests, which makes them much less fun I'd imagine.

Also he's right about the gear grind. It's too high and older quests no longer have balanced gear for today's game.

[boredGamer]

from the point of view of a new player.

Everyone else is expressing the POVs of experienced players who know the ins and outs of these quests.

But they were (mostly) designed when the server populations were higher, which meant that there was more teaching going on, more passing on the quirks of each quest to new players. With the populations so low and lfms way down, it's harder for new players to learn the quests, which makes them much less fun I'd imagine.

Also he's right about the gear grind. It's too high and older quests no longer have balanced gear for today's game.


You ... learn quests from other players?

Isn't half the fun of the game exploring and learning the quests? (Maybe most of the fun of the quests?)

Oh, and you get to learn the quests with today's uber gear?

Here's a hint - all those people that know the quests - probably spent a while figuring them out. Guess what - every new pack that has come out has had, wait for it, new quests. Even today!

[Singular]

You ... learn quests from other players?

Isn't half the fun of the game exploring and learning the quests? (Maybe most of the fun of the quests?)

Oh, and you get to learn the quests with today's uber gear?

Here's a hint - all those people that know the quests - probably spent a while figuring them out. Guess what - every new pack that has come out has had, wait for it, new quests. Even today!

See my 2010 year start? Back when I started playing, it was downhill to quests and downhill back! The lfms were full, groups ran quests, given that slightly more than half my brain functions, yes, I learned quests from other, more experienced players.

Now of course it's a ghost town so perhaps learning from others is less obvious and more difficult than it used to be, but it used to be unavoidable, except for solo players. And i prefer to run in groups.

Also, notice how half the comments on this thread are people trying to explain how quests should be run and why running quests with meta-knowledge makes them fun? It's a hint.

[glmfw1]

A lot of the fun that my friends and I had while levelling our first lives was going through quests trying to work out how to complete them for ourselves. If we failed, we tried to work out why we failed, then tried again.
Quests such as The Pit were ones we discovered that we couldn't solo, so had to group up for. Rather than being annoyed at not being able to complete it, we saw it as a challenge to be able to overcome. If all you are after is fast levelling, then quests like this won't satisfy. If you are after the challenge of trying to work out how to get through things and achieve aims (which is what D&D is generally about) then quests with "annoying" mechanisms become some of the most fun.
Approaching things with a fresh mind often results in different methods of success from the tried and tested members that the vets use - sometimes noticeably better ones.
Often the NPCs who grant quests give out clues that help with success, so ignoring them (or ignoring conversations with NPCs on entry) means you are missing valuable information on how to proceed which is actually there for you, which can lead to far more frustration with a quest than is necessary.

[DYWYPI]

Thanks for the explanation about the bungling Artificer; obviously its dodge or reflexes might not be too great.


One of the artificers had run the raid multiple times and he was taking the lead. He couldnt find any safe spots and were dying to the spike traps just past the electrical field. He couldnt get past the spikes at all to reach the control boxes.

However, like I mentioned earlier, each of those '8 Control Panels' has completely "safe spots" to stand near, while 'Disabling' the box! If they didn't, any lesser "trappers", e.g. Artificers, would be always getting hit and never successfully complete the 'Disable Device' animation. ;-)

The ones further along that trapped corridor - you can stand right next to the pillars - and disable the box and not get a scratch.

Update: To further prove my point about "safe spots" for this specifically mentioned Trap area. Today at random, I found an ancient video on YouTube showing a Character Disabling those VoN 5 traps. He was standing within some of those "safe spots".

Short video of those VoN 5 Traps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG_Ie_XR8hM

In the video he wasn't even doing it efficiently (completely terrible and idiotically slow strategy shown other than standing in those "safe spots" LOL).

Note: I wouldn't be seen dead, disabling the VoN 5 traps anywhere near as slow or utterly reckless as was shown in the video. During the time; in the video, he'd done one or two... I'd have nearly completed both sides maybe.

If the Artificer (in your group) was getting hit a lot they should have disabled the Control Panels at both sides in a "zigzag" fashion. When one of those Control Panels is disabled, it disables the opposite set of blades on the 'other side' of the barrier.

The Artificer is a Premium class, it can be purchased in the DDO Store for 995 DP or can be unlocked by earning 150 House Cannith patron favour. So it's more than likely; it was a VIP player or multi TR Veteran. In either case they were talking nonsense about not being able to find "safe spots".

It's more a case of they were not fully engaging their brain, and likely clueless about: sensible "trapping" techniques. ;-)


https://i.imgur.com/RXGz0u1.jpg
#untrap

That's a Screenshot I took today of myself (full PUG Raid party), its likely the third trap Control box, on the right-hand side, as you can see I'm nowhere near any potential danger whatsoever from the blades. :-)

[Zretch]

That gold seal hireling you spent 10 bucks on?

10 bucks is 1,000 DDO points. I think you mean 10 cents. :) The most expensive gold seal hireling is 30 DDO points or 30 cents, and they can be as cheap as 10.

BTW, many of the OPs comments regarding traps can be addressed with a 30 cent purchase of a gold seal rogue hireling that'll last you an hour. There are certainly items in the DDO store that just aren't worth the cost, but rogue hirelings, in my opinion, aren't one of them.

[Cantor]

10 bucks is 1,000 DDO points. I think you mean 10 cents. :) The most expensive gold seal hireling is 30 DDO points or 30 cents, and they can be as cheap as 10.

BTW, many of the OPs comments regarding traps can be addressed with a 30 cent purchase of a gold seal rogue hireling that'll last you an hour. There are certainly items in the DDO store that just aren't worth the cost, but rogue hirelings, in my opinion, aren't one of them.

They mean the permanent lvl 3 hire from the starter pack.

[Zretch]

I don't think the original post can be taken as a review. It's more like a "First Impressions". Much of the focus on XP/minute in the original post are, while valid for a first time run by first life players, change drastically after you've played that quest a few more times. The important thing to note is that once you buy a pack, you have it for every single character you make, and for every single life you run. You WILL play theses quests multiple times as you TR or create alts.

A great example of this is Spies in the House. The first time I played that quest, I said "never ever again". It took me almost two hours, and multiple times looking at the wiki to get through. It had multiple traps, mario jumping, air jet timing, and all in a game that seems to only lag when you're mid-jump.

Fast forward to today and Spies in the House is a go-to quest every single time I TR. It's one of the best XP / minute quests out there once you know it. If this game were like many others where you played content a small handful of times before you got to the "end game" and stayed there, then first impressions would be extremely valuable. But in this particular game where you MUST take replay-ability into account simply because the game progression mechanics mean you'll be repeating quests quite a lot, a more in depth review after multiple plays is far more informative for everyone.

[Zretch]

They mean the permanent lvl 3 hire from the starter pack.

You'd sacrifice Elieri???? You monster! :)

[C-Dog]

Telling someone that their experience is "wrong" is quite rude...
Which is why I mentioned that that is not very politik. However, that doesn't change the "pretty much" state of the matter, within the qualifications that I then posted.


If you dont share the same opinion, thats fine...its not as if im trying to convince people that a quest is good or bad in the first place.
Then why are you posting? Because that is, quite literally, exactly what you are doing, telling people that it's "good or bad".

Which is why I posted this explanation...


That's one of the problems w/ the OP - they are badly mistaken in several of their assessments re loot, xp and traps. And by "mistaken", I mean "a significant majority seem to disagree", at least according to every forum article I've read, and also by my own statistically insignificant assessment. :cool:
So I'm not saying "You are wrong that you don't like pasta", I'm mostly saying "You are mistaken to present a review of pasta as "bad", as if you are speaking for the community, because you are in a distinct and obvious minority re your opinion."

Your opinion is correct for you, 100%. But your dis/like of a thing doesn't reflect anything re the common, collective opinion, except whether yours agrees w/ that. And yours just doesn't.

Which, again, is fine, and to post it is acceptable - but you need to accept that the general forum simply disagrees.

[Cordovan]

The thing about opinions is they tend to prompt passionate responses, but ultimately it's just one person's opinion, and it's fine. Like the quests you like. Closing due to receiving a really high number of reported posts about this thread, ahead of the weekend, where it's not likely things would improve.